"That's one reason" "Because I know that if I got married to someone" "I'd be in love with him obvisouly and our love for each other would grow so that sooner or later I would have a child" "And I don't want children at all" "Of course if the Blessed Virgin Mary or an angel appeared to me and said:" "'You will be a mother, the new Blessed Virgin on earth, and you are with child'" "Then obviously I would do what the Virgin Mary did" "I don't want to do what everybody do to have children" "But in that situation it would be the doing of the Holy Ghost" "If it were to come from heaven if I were to be told 'Christ will be reborn and you will be his mother" "You will marry Montini and you'll be the mother of this Christ'" "Alright, that be the Holy Ghost at work, because personally I don't want to..." "What kind of thing?" "How do you mean?" "All kinds of things" "Ever since my father refused to allow me back home because he refused to have any contact..." "And at home my mother is unhappy and told me that I was all alone and she couldn't understand how that happened" "and whether I was all right and how I was getting on..." "SPEECH" "I thought that they would kill me rather than let me go to Rome" "So I was pretty surprised when I finally managed to get there" "And I was rather tired because I hadn't quite got over a bout of flu" "And when the priest realised that I wasn't answering his questions any more he told me that there would be no private audience, just a public one" "And he told me to see Cardinal Foucheret about what to do for it" "At the time I had a job in the laundry at the hospital at La Tranche and I had a contract which said I had to work at least three months before I would be taken on permanently" "I had to go back to France" "After that I went back with the Focolari where I was living" "In the evening I felt very ill and I thought I was going to die" "I thought I had some sort of heart attack" "I'd been put in a very pretty room which I had all to myself and it was extremely comfortable" "And suddenly I felt absolutely terrible and I called for someby to come quickly" "They came and they gave me some Coramine to buck me up" "Then one of the sisters took me to another room where there was a bed" "Whe wanted to give me some herb tea but I didn't want anything" "So they didn't bother me" "After that I started saying "Poor Claudette, poor Chantal!"" "and crying and caying "I don't want to die!" "I don't want to die!"" "Then they asked me who Claudette and Chantal were and I told them they were my sisters" "After that I asked them to dress me in white suit if I died in the night and to do my hair into ringlets and to make me up" "And that made them laugh" "You need to be a bit more protected?" "Yes, and with more people too" "You complain about the fact that people don't speak to each other that they find it difficult to skake hands" "No, people can shake the hand easily" "But it's not really serious" "People shake hands all the time" "If you go into a pub everyone says 'hello' to you" "But that's as far as it goes" "When you were shown people who wanted to meet you and have a bit of a chat..." "That never happens" "But when Denise told you that we wanted to meet, why did you come along?" "Yes, I came straight away" "She told that" "So I thought I would find out later what it was all about" "I adore dressing in white" "I've wanted to get married for a very long time so as to dress up in white" "So I stayed quiet all night though I didn't sleep" "And the following day, they told me" "The novice Nuncia, who was very nice and spoke French as well as Italian, said she was going to tale me to see a priest" "I was very pleased about that" "She told me that she could take me to see a priest who could help me to get a private audience" "I said OK" "So round about 11 o'clock we went to see a Focolare priest" " There are Focolare priests too " "How long ago was that?" "It was in 1966" "She took me to see this priest and acted as an interpreter" "He asked why I had come to Rome and I explained that it was to get married" "So she interpreted averything I said" "And after that the priest talked to me for a long time" "He was very understanding and asked me if I had suffered a great deal" "I replied I had" "After that he told me that for the moment what I was aking was impossible but he gave the impression that later it might be possible" "And was it?" "No, I'm still not married!" "But I still haven't had my audience" "And now it's 1976" "So it's ten years..." "Yes" "And I wanted to have my private audience this year" "I wanted a priest I know from the diocese to come with me" "But I've had it for this year because he was completely booked up" "Will the audience help you get married or the marriage halp you get the audience?" "The audience will help me towards the marriage" "I asked him what he was doing next year" "But later on he told me that it was too heavy a responsibility and that he didn't know Rome well" "I 've been to Rome three times and I've had problems there" "Though the first time wasn't too bad" "And I ended up in hospital after I came back to France because I was nearly kidnapped!" "When you got back?" "Yes, after I got back" "How did that happen?" "I was walking along a street" "I had just come back from Rome and I was walking along a street when two men said 'Come out for a big meal with us'" "And as I was rather naive at the time, I agreed" "And we went to a restaurant where they ordered a really delicious meal" "And after that they took me to their flat" "On the way there one of them said he had to make a phone call and they stopped the car" "I began feeling rather frightened" "And later on, in the flat..." "No, before I got the flat one of them said he was going to phone" "And so I was left alone with the other one who was called Mr. Louis" "He took me to his flat" "Mr. Louis?" "Yes he took me to his flat" "And he started asking me questions, though I don't remember what they were about because all this happened a long time ago in 1966" "Then he said we'd listen to some music but that we'd have to put the lights out if we listened to his records" "So then I said I was afraid and asked him to put the lights back on" "And a bit later he said suddenly: 'Why did you come here?" "Why did you agree to go out with us?" "'" "And I replied because I found them interesting" "I really wasn't aware how dangerous the situation was..." "After that he said we were going dancing" "I said O.K." "I went out with him in the car round about midnight" "But after that I started to be fightened and said I wanted to go home" "And at that time I hadn't got a flat" " the flat I live in with my sister now " "I had a room in a woman's house near the hospital at La Tranche" "Student lodgings" "I started to be frightened and said I wanted to get out of the car" "Then he asked me if I was afraid of being raped" "I said: 'No, but I want to get out." "I don't want to go dancing" "Take me home, take me back to Grenoble'" "So he stopped the car" "It was round midnight" "And I was very fightened by now" "And then he took me to the esplanade" "And I said: 'Leave me alone!" "'" "And he wouldn't let me go, I told him to leave me alone" "And I thought he had a gun, I was terrified" "And as I was very religious I had a rosary with me" "So I got it out and I told Gold that I was just a little girl and I would never do it again" "And I didn't know this man was dangerous and I didn't know what would happen" "And I asked God to get me out of the mess I was in and to make the man stop pestering me" "And I thought to my self 'I'm scared'" "After that he said 'Hard luck'" "God or the man?" "No, the man" "I was really scared, I wondered what was going to become of me" "Afterwards I thought I was in danger because I had said that I worked at La Trand and had provided all the necessary information about myself, that the next day I would go to mass at Saint-Louis" "Then I thought they would get me in lodgings and I was so terrified that I went to the bishop's house" "And there many men was following me, they asked me if lived here and I said 'No, leave me alone'" "So I rang as much as I could at midnight" "And I told the porter that my life was in danger, I told the same thing to a nun and ask her for protection" "She told me I couldn't stay here and that I should go to another convent" "So I went to the Saint-Vincent-de-Paul Convent" "And they told me there was no room for me and I would have to go elsewhere" "And I said that it was past midnight and I couldn't go home" "'Give me a room!" "'" "She told me to go to the YWCA" "And there were hundreds of cars surrounding me" "Some people were saying 'Poor kid, poor kid'" "After that I found the YWCA and finally a door opened" "And I was saved" "And in the morning I didn't feel like going to work because it's dark at 6:30 a.m. in the middle of winter" "So I decided not to turn up" "But someone must have told my brother perhaps by the nuns" "because somehow he arrivec and told me he would take me to work because I was scared to go by myself" "And at work I saw a doctor I knew, Dr. Arnaud" "He told me that I ought to go into hospital, otherwise Police Emergency squad would pick me up" "So I decided to get myself admitted and it wasn't very pleasant, I can tell you..." "And the years went by and I never got my audience" "I went to Rome for a second time in 1971 on a pilgrimage" "I was dressed all in white to have an audience" "Did you travel dressed in white?" "No, no." "I was in ordinary clothes" "But I went on a pilgrimage which came from Paris" "I was the only person from Grenoble" "I went with my suitcase and my white dress inside it and my veil, my wedding dress..." "I thought that's how I would go the audience, dressed in my long white dress because I knew that princesses are usually received dressed in white" "Well, I'm not a princess, but I wanted to be dressed in white to see the Pope!" "SPEECH" "I've looked for a solution to the difficulties of life" "But it's going to be hard when I come out of hospital because I'm going to be confronted with... with people who are somewhere else..." "Have you come out of hospital?" "No, not yet, but it won't be long" "I spent three years in hospital once" "Did you?" "It wasn't the same kind of hospital" "After a bit you begin to feel good" "Yes but sometimes you really enjoy being alone and there's always sombody asking you questions" "Why do you think that when you get out you will meet people who...?" "Sometimes I've gone out in the street, I've forgotten my watch" "So I've asked the time, and there's something about the way I ask it that makes people..." "It's not natural" "Just the way they..." "Just the answer I had, it was embarassing" "You go out, it's a fine, and you ask the time, if they reply nicely then it's O.K., if not..." "How exactly do you ask the time?" "How?" "In a normal way..." "Well, then..." "I don't know..." "I sometimes think that people reply very aggressively" "That's what life makes them like too..." "If they've just come out of the factory or they've just left work..." "Of course" "So you shouldn't be frightened because they're just like you..." "But that's not all" "Other things..." "They're not where you are at" "I expect so" "It's true that you don't need much to get out of hospital" "You just need to know someone" "Even if you're not particularly friend with him" "You can go out when you want" "You just need to have a friend" "Someone who shakes your hand, who proposes you to do sport..." "But it's really not easy..." "Did you have problems like that when you came out the hospital?" "Yes..." "When did you find friends?" "No, that's my friends who found me somewhere to live!" "I've got loads of cousins outside the hospital" "You know, they say me 'hello' but they're distant" "They don't say 'come in!" "I'll buy you a drink'" "I went to the Vatican for an audience" "I told some people in the Vatican that the next day I would put on my best dress to go and see the Holy Father" "And the following day I put on my long white dress" "I put on my long white dress and there were lots of people waiting for me" "And they were looking at me because I was dressed in white like a bride" "Then I saw a Swiss Guard who asked me if I was alone" "I said 'yes'" "Then he asked me if I'd come for an audience, I said 'yes'" "He told me to go in" "And I went up the stairs and I saw a priest who I didn't know but I suppose he was a Focolare priest" "Anyway I told him that I'd just come from France for a private audience with the Holy Father" "But he wasn't t too sure who I was" "And he gave me book about marriage written in Italian" "He gave me a little case and told me it was for me and another case for my husband" "And I've still got the book and the two cases" "But I still haven't got the husband!" "I waited a long time" "And then a telephone rand" "I was alone there with the telephone ringing and ringing" "I thought to myself that if it was the Holy Father who was ringing me I would definitely answer" "But this is probably a trick someone is playing to me, so I don't answer" "So I just stayed sitting there and didn't move while a lots of priests through backwards and forwards" "I stayed so long there that it was almost 1pm" "Then somebody said that they were going to shut the Vatican because it was lunchtime" "But I still wanted to have my audiences especially as I was all dressed up in white" "So I went up a staircase and said to some gentlemen who were there... because I remembered that the first time I had been to the Vatican there had been a guard not a Swiss Guard but one dressed in ordinary clothes" "He had taken me into the Holy Father's garden and told me that I was very privileged to be allowed in there" "I said that there had to be some exceptions" "And he said: 'What can there be in this head?" "'" "And the first time I was there, he told me that I could go into the Vatican" "He interrogated me for a long time, because he thought I was a spy" "He drove me to the Chruch Court" "Then he left me outside in his car but there was another car watching me" "And what was there in this head?" "What?" "He asked you what there can be in your hand, so what was there in your head?" "Lots and lots of things!" "There's first my audience with the Holy Father and the hope that he won't upset me and that he understand me" "How fantastic it would be if I could one day marry him" "because it would make a lot of people think again and it would allow him to..." "I like taking of people and as the Holy Father is very ill..." "You could help him?" "Exactly, I could help him" "As his health is delicate and so is mine for that matter..." "So as to talk to..." "Just to talk, about anything..." "What are the places where you can make friends?" "You can go dancing on Saturday night but if I go there it's to listen to the music a bit, depending on the music there is" "Or you can go to the cinema, but that's not always so easy" "And you know, over 30..." "I don't think one's age matters when you make friends with someone even someone younger than yourself" "But it isn't that easy..." "You're always..." "Then there are my sisters" "I've got my sister and my brothers but they're always busy" "Always 'No, no, I've got to go...'" "There's no contact with them even though we are brother and sister" "You need topics of conversation" "That's right" "But it all depends on what you've ben doing the day before" "That can be more or less interesting" "What did you do yesterday?" "What did I do yesterday?" "From 5pm, I watched TV" "I had a rest in the afternoon" "I don't remember what else I did" "Look, suppose we were in the pub and I wanted to talk to you" "But what you did yesterday has to have some kind of interest for me, otherwise I can't get involved" "Yes, I know" "What did I do yesterday?" "Oh yes, I made a phone call about a job..." "But you know when you meet people they don't especially want to be told about what you did the day before" "Generally they said 'What are you doing?" "'" "They might offer you a drink but after that they leave because they're in a hurry" "Or if they're not in a hurry, and if something is not very pleasant has just happened to them, then they might..." "But that's not friendship" "Honestly, until I was 21 I had some very good friends" "There were 3 of us who spent all our time together" "We out out together on Saturday nights, listened to music and so on" "We had a lot of fun" "We tried to put together a little business" "But it can goes on untill you're 18 or 21, but then..." "Then I had to leave Chamonix to came here to Grenoble and that's when all my problems started" "If you were suddenly to be struck dumb" "Say you tongue was cut out in an accident" "Would that worry you?" "I'd say it would" "Because speaking to each other seems to be so difficult and no one wants to do it" "It might be not so bad" "What would bother you so much about it?" "I didn't really understand" "What would bother you?" "People say we don't know how to talk to each other, that we aren't able to and we don't want to" "So we could just be silent" "You could just be silent and then you are in pain all alone" "I'm not really in favour of that" "Why don't you go dancing any more?" "Oh, I don't know" "There are some rude things" "Some people more or less expose themselves at dances" "So I just remain a wallflower" "That's why I don't get anymore" "When you're over 18 the reason you go dancing is to meet girls, to have someone who takes an interest in you..." "I had a girl once" "It lasted a year but then it didn't matter anymore" "If you could choose, would you prefer to talk or to listen?" "I'd prefer being able to express myself" "But it would depend if my friend is deaf" "Yes, I've got my brothers and my sister" "They get along all right, they've got lots of friends who call round all the time" "Before my brother got married, his friends used to call for him in a car every Saturday night" "The same thing with my sister and my old brother" "And they go to each other's houses when it's their birthday" "One of my brothers is very keen in sport" "He plays ice hockey and football" "He belongs to a youth club..." "I sometimes feel I've been overtaken by events" "How did that happen?" "I had a great disappointment with the person I was with" "I was let down and so she was" "I didn't understand her and she didn't make as much effort as she could have" "And I found it difficult to get used to the town" "Here people don't behave in the same way as in Savoy" "14They have a different way of working" "And often there've been complete misunderstandings" "How do you mean?" "The boss is really the boss and he really wants that you know it" "Am I allowed to talk about my personal problems here?" "Yes, that's what I'm here for" "Well, you see my parents tried to separate" "And they couldn't make up their minds" "And this went on for 3 years" "And that's how I grew up" "And so the atmosphere was pretty unfriendly" "And it wasn't always very good for us" "I'm not interested in sex" "I don't want children" "What I want is to be called Madame Jacqueline ****** de Garabandal Montini" "I want to take his name" "That abd being called 'Madame' are what interest me" "But this can't happen without a wedding" "But I don't know any Italian, so..." "I could be a help to the Holy Father" "If I were by his side, I could also help people I know who might need halp because being married to him I would be able to do anything I pleased" "Even if I had to forge banknotes I could do it through the Vatican because they can forge them" "When you want to save human lives you do it by any means you can" "You can't call it stealing" "The Vatican is a very special establishment" "I don't know whether it really is possible to forge banknotes" "I've no idea how it's done but if that were the only way to save human lives then I would do it" "And I'd send the money to the poor" "Would you find it more difficult to save human lives if you weren't called 'Madame'?" "That's not the point, I just want to be called 'Madame' and to have my marriage celebrated" "Then I could say 'I'm married, so it's Madame' to people who call me 'Mademoiselle'" "And I could show them my wedding ring" "'May I introduce my huband?" "'" "Would you mind being called 'Madame' if this had all happened?" "Of course I would!" "I'd have a huband" "I'd have a husband so everything would be different" "There might be people watching you on TV who will write to you" "You ought perhaps to be prepared for that" "Yes but they won't know my address" "Well, we could give it to them if you want" "They'll write in to ask who this person is or perhaps they won't" "The trouble with TV is that sometimes too many people see you" "Well, what you could say is that I'm a girl from Grenoble who wants to get married to one Paul Montini" "And she's wanted to ever since 1965" "But don't give them my name" "You can say I'm called Jacqueline but don't give them my surname" "So things were O.K. yesterday?" "Yes" "And you reckon it'll be all right tomorrow?" "I think so" "Everybody has their ups and down you know..." "Yes, but not like..." "We all have complexes, don't we?" "When you stop talking and start thinking like you did just know, are you talking to yourself?" "No, my head's completely empty" "I'm thinking about nothing." "Nothing special" "Don't you find it a bit of a problem?" "No, it's not a problem" "Why did you want to be admitted to hospital?" "Because I thought I was..." "One day I wanted to throw myself out of the window" "Then when I turned off to make sure I'd turned it off properly" "Like the doors, I used to chek three times to make sure they were shut" "Only three!" "I check twelve times" "And as I'v got 3 keys, that means I have to check 48 times just to shut the front door" "No kidding!" "20 times at the very least!" "Yes, but it's not just the taps and the front door and the lights..." "And you don't think that's normal?" "In my view, that's normal" "So what?" "But it makes me worried all the same" "I do exactly the same as you only more so, but that's no reason to get myself admitted to hospital" "No, but that's not the only reason why I came here" "I was already in hospital and I mentioned this worry to someone" "What other things were there?" "I was beginning to repeat things over and over again without stopping" "SILENCE SPEECH" "SOME PEOPLE'S SLIENCE SOME PEOPLE'S SPEECH"