"Every guest in this series has One passion in common- painting." "Even though they are amateurs, they have accepted" "To come to talk about a painting in which they are Particularly keen." "Mr. Jean-Noel Picq chose "The Garden of Delights" by Jérôme Bosch." "In this same chair, some years ago, I remember well" "It was also like two o´clock in the morning as now." "Exactly like today." "8 00:00:46,917 -- 00:00:49,108 I had this reproduction in my hands" "This is the third panel of the tryptique by Jérôme Bosch." ""The Garden of Delights"" "And I clearly remember That I looked at it for a moment." "And in a quite pedantic manner I told you," "If you allow me, I´m going to Talk to you about what I see here." "And I remember with which detail I started..." "By the right inferior side of the painting." "And I´m going to tell you now, some years later, what do I see." "In the right inferior of the picture." "So, there´s a pig, Half dressed as a nun," "Unless it isn´t a half naked nun." "Transformed into a sort of pig" "Whose groin is trying to Embrace in the ear of a naked man" "And this naked man has a gesture," "Into the pig´s or the nun´s face" "This naked man has a gesture Which we cannot now whether if it´s" "To attract or to repel" "And some sort of dwarf, a semi human dwarf" "Dressed with an armor" "Seems interested to ebaille them and participate" "This dwarf has an arrow under his thigh" "And from his crest a foot is hanging," "A human foot that is tied to his chest." "A Little higher you can see a man," "A naked man turning and Being devored by two dogs." "Two dogs dressed in armors," "Two dogs with armors slaughter him." "The man doesn´t seem to suffer." "If I had to define his expression," "It´s not an expression of torture, evidently." "He´s not ecstatic either." "This act of devoration takes place" "Like something that is quite normal and doesn´t appeal to any sentiment." "And beyond always in the inferior part of the painting" "There is a quite strange scene:" "an individual wearing small anvils and wearing a black suit with White spots" "dressed with a cape with a golden lice." "this man, this beast here, this man here have the head of a mice trying to strangle a naked man." "This naked man has a dagger that crosses his hand." "And like, for the man who is devoured by the dogs this man is strangled by a ray, by a ray with the head of a mice" "that looks absolutely quiet." "There is no expression of pain or of ecstasy it´s like an act that he doesn´t care much for." "Almost nearby, we can see a man decapitated by a sword, a sword that is being hel by no one." "and he´s blindfolded, like a condemned to death." "And he´s holding his head which is just about to fall" "He is holding it like Rodin´s "The Thinker"" "He can hold his head in a reflecting manner." "You saw before that I examined carefully this painting" "It often seems to me, that, when we talk about Bosch we talk of a symbolism present in Bosch" "that which implies a secret sense," "a language of metaphors to decipher." "Or I really don´t see any sense in this painting, therefore, no symbolism." "It´s hard to find correspondences, impossible to find a signification." "The owning of elements, that is present in this painting of creatures, it´s associated in a multiple manner" "without being posible to say what they really mean." "Thus to return, in this description, to continue this description that I was doing a moment ago... we can see on the painting a creature," "a creature half man, half bird, or a creature with the head of a bird, gigantesque because it´s bigger than the other elements in the painting" "swallowing a man." "It´s swallowing a naked man, it has already swallowed half of him." "And in detail, an important parenthesis or a parenthesis without importance:" "This bird has a cauldron over it´s head, a cauldron that is covering it´s head and it´s feet are shod with pitchers." "Of this naked man that is being swallowed swallows come out," "The swallows come out of the anus." "Anyway, in reality as in the painting the swallows refer to the sky or the blue sky" "And here, in this painting, they come out of an anus." "Which corresponds, if we can find a relationship that I invented the fact that this big bird" "that is sitting in this sort of toilet, a royal toilet, like Louis XIV on his throne." "is trying to execrate a bubble" "A bubble of which more naked men will come out, other naked men a bit smaller tan those that are being swallowed" "like if before the creature finishes swallowing, the naked man becomes a smaller man" "that falls in a hole, in a pit, in a cabinet around which other men participate in different excretion operations" "One of them defecates bubbles or eggs small round objects, anyway." "Another crouched and, helped by a woman, vomited" "And at the bottom of the hole, at the bottom of this pit," "A face comes out of this darkness." "It´s quite difficult to talk about this painting, needless to say, describing it." "It´s... the description implies a recognition." "It only describes what is being recognized from the painting." "Where there´s integration of notion, of order, there´s meaning." "And in this painting there is no order nor sense." "This painting is the least religious because as soon as there´s a sense, we can say there´s religion" "Any complicity in this fact, cannot exist between the one who made the painting — Bosch — and the one who watches it." "We wouldn´t recognize anything and we would recognize something at the end of the day." "So, there´s something that seems to be easier to talk about in the painting in the upper part, I can see a knife" "stamped, planted between two ears themselves linked by a spear." "While, obviously, such a representation immediately evokes the barrel of a tank, for example, between the two wheels" "but it seems rather obvious toe ven talk about it that this represents a penis joined by two testicles." "I noticed elsewhere, curiously, that in children´s drawings, always that they represent a naked man with his penis" "the sex is represented by a small stick between the legs but the testicles never appear." "Here we see them reappear in the place of the ears." "We can clearly see that the ears on the painting replace the testicles." "The ears are the testicles." "But if we start talking about symbolisms of this matter" "against all of what I said previously there´s the fact that that the ears clearly have another function in the painting" "So I look upon the ears, in the lobe, a man, a creature" "his shadow, that it´s a devil, it´s a monk that is trying to sabe someone that has been crushed under the ear, taking his hand." "He´s sort of tending his hand from a boat to a man for getting him aboard and in the present case to rise him over the ear." "I wonder how Bosch came to do this painting." "Clearly when Van Ruiz, the famous merchant, patron commanded him with this painting, a triptyque he wanted the painting to about the subject of the time" "a representation of a famous trilogy, The Holy Trinity" "or of Hell, of the purgatory and of paradise." "And that´s what Bosch seems to have represented." "Given that Bosch was an artist, he was like all the artist of his time loved and hated at the same time." "He worked by command and was forced to represent religious topics." "So, in the two panels to the left he represents, without a question, the purgatory and the paradise" "At the left, there´s, quite visible, the color of the painting itself," "the characters found here evoke something quite "edenic"" "Indeed, it seems to me that there was a little lack of inspiration for painting the paradise there are much less elements, much less characters and much less action than in the panel I just talked to you about." "We can see, which is at least curious, an elephant and the elephant always represent, to my opinion, the paradisiac animal" "In all the mythology that concerns the elephant it is described as an animal that is always found in paradise." "There´s an autor, Tersovens, that speaks of the elephant like an animal which" ",over one long road covered with mandrakes, walks slowly in the paradise." "The central panel is more complex." "The central panel "The Garden of Delights" properly speaking." "It evoques the distraction, the profusion, the dance, the reconciliation of the species." "We can see, for example, what is really the center of the panel men, riders in triads, like in the circus" "evoking different animals:" "pigs, cows, horses, bears gaily circling ." "A gayety that seems to me quite conventional ." "I really think that it´s in the third panel, in the description of hell that Bosch, finally lets himself go" "He idulges himself to describe this insane enjoyment." "This enjoyment is so complete that the awareness of the enjoyment itself, doesn´t exist." "And why is this painting so attractive?" "Why is he so fascinated by it at the end?" "Well, I said it, this painting is not ruled by any order, by any law:" "there´s no esthetic law, no moral law, or simply, no logic." "For example, there´s no perspective in this painting." "When we look at the size of different characters, one wonders where´s the space." "There´s no place There´s no sex anymore." "Of course, a lot of characters, most of them possibly, are naked, but quite simple, quite pure." "The sex is everywhere: it´s in the ear, it´s in the pig´s groin, it´s in the armor" "and it´s, simply, not there where we used to situate by legislation." "You say that there´s no sex in this painting by Bosch and you were talking about it just now when you were interrupted you were talking about enjoyment, that Paradise was enjoyment." "Ok, maybe this painting proves that there´s joy without sex." "Sex is the canonization of enjoyment and arrives to whom, without being pleased, wants it." "Here, we enjoy the fact that there´s a rabbit´s head in a monk´s body" "that lets himself embrace the ear, by the pig without being surprised that this pig is a nun," "that has a dice over it´s head, that allows to be devoured by dogs," "that has it´s hand pierced by a knife." "The enjoyment comes from everywhere and it´s completely detached from the body." "The organs are not planified, the function has nothing to do with the organ" "So, in the middle of the painting there´s something something that represents, in the center of the picture because it contrasts with the rest for a clearer color, for the size," "it sits high in the center of the painting like Christ in the center of the scene." "I see a body, a hollow body." "A half-body if we can call it a body where the arms are at the same time horse legs and then tree branches, which rely on a boat." "Other branches come out of this branches, which also sink sink back in the middle of the body instead of escaping into the air like branches usually do." "And in the interior of this body there´s a cabaret scene:" "people who are having a banquet, a servant fills their glass trembling." "This body is empty." "It´s a body without organs." "You talk to us about Bosch in a curious way that is to say we have ideas of Bosch the ones you talk about, his paintings it´s something that´s often complicated, unsustainable." "And here, to believe in the way you talk, see what you describe to us there´s an impression of a big tranquility." "Bosch is peaceful." "I find Bosch to be quite peaceful" "It seems to me that on ocassions, we talked about like if it was the representation of a Sabbath, of night obsessions," "so, everything seems quite calm, that´s to say each one enjoys to himself but "each one" is a false word because there is no "each one"" "— each organ, each thing — no matter what intertwines that makes the person bedridden, a fiction." "There´s a sultan some sort of sultan, with a monkey´s head with his bathrobe in the head" "that spits like a string that has multiple nodes which registers a piece of music into the bare buttocks of a man" "lying down over a music book and half hidden by a strange instrument which is some sort of graft, lute and harp." "And on the harp, like a torture there is a man hanging" "And next to it, a quite strange instrument which is musical but it´s a little bit like the boots" "which were used for questioning in the Middle Ages to those who were tortured" "A man turns the handle which crushes with the instrument one person that seems to obtain from his wand a musical sound from a little triangle." "And it´s also curious in this instrument, the fact that the little triangle with which" "the torture tries to obtain a musical sound seems designed it´s as if it was designed over the instrument it doesn´t seem like a relief to the point in which there´s no difference between relief and the absence of it." "Like I was saying a few moments ago there´s no perspective in Bosch´s paintings" "but there´s no difference in the way that is represented which is meant to be experienced in three dimensions." "And next, there´s a group of musical instruments in this corner of the painting that I´m trying to describe." "An instrument, a sort of huge flute and from the flute´s mouth some smoke scapes" "and a hand that seems to ask for help 272 00:20:00,531 -- 00:20:03,834 And all around the characters, some of which sing like if they were in a choir" "while others, cover their ears." "And everything is connected here, in these multiple associations where one doesn´t know where is the pain, where is the pleasure, simply, where´s the body." "I think that, in our time, Bosch would be catalogued as a schizophrenic." "And it was said that, among those who were imprisoned that they saw with their ears that they heared with their mouths," "and that they didn´t have any conscience of time or space." "There is none in this triptych." "Evidently, in the Middle Ages, criticism didn´t exist, the notion of perspective wasn´t very well studied." "They didn´t have their pencil like this for calculating proportions when they were studying the human body or for calculating space, but in him, independently from historical references the space couldn´t exist anyway that it was imposible for it to exist" "because there is no difference between the animals and the human beings, between the dead and the living and that no person expresses with his whole body nor personality" "There are in this painting, human beings, animals, things who perform between them" "the biggest number of nestings and arrangements possible." "Everything that can be taken an embraced, is taken and embraced." "Everything that can be penetrated, is penetrated" "Everything that can fit somewhere, fits somewhere" "And it doesn´t matter that´s a human cavity or a natural cavity." "It´s a known fact that the body, the human body, for that matter, has seven orifices." "Seven orifices are very well known, I think, by the sacred sciences." "Seven orífices, that without them, the world wouldn´t exist." "As important as the five senses." "And of this seven orífices, one stands and makes the difference between the man and the woman" "The other six are common to what is known as "the two genders"." "And Bosch faithfully reproduced this." "Besides the difference of the sexes finally appears, but the seventh orifice doesn´t appear." "And it expresses something which is very difficult to talk about, because it´s the certainty, it´s the evidence, the things just the way they are." "I want you to show me the seven orífices." "Ah, the seven orifices are dispersed." "You can´t locate them?" "If the seven orifices were grouped, like they are in one body, that would be a way to represent the body by the seven orifices like by the eyes." "The seven orífices mirror the soul or the two eyes mirror the soul." "But here they are dispersed and finally we can see them all." "We can see in this orifice that a flute is inserted in the anus." "We see in this orifice, some sort of tied spit, tied, tied like something solid that comes out and penetrates there´s no sense, there´s no sense anymore." "When I say that there´s no sense, it means that there´s no sense in going or returning" "Saying that there´s no sense doesn´t mean anything and since there´s no difference between going and returning" "And this orifice distinguishes the man from the woman, see?" "This one is the least detailed, apparently this orifice bothered him the most." "The fact is that men are drawn with small genitals," "barely marked; the women aren´t well defined." "One can say that this is something that bothered him a little because it´s something that´s very present in this work, which defines the order of the world." "There are animals that eat half of men that give the impression of..." "Because they can´t finish eating." "Let´s say it was for the unexpected." "Regarding the bird which is eating a man on it´s throne" "I think that if we wait a little until it finishes eating and therefore out of it´s seat more men wold be shitted by the bull." "The painting is extremely rigid." "Well, did you see the seven orifices?" "Naturally." "There are others." "And you would see others if we wait a little like you said?" "Because one has the impression that it´s an instant, if I remember correctly Parce qu'on a l'impression que c'est un instant si je me souviens bien that´s a very precarious moment, that Bosch paints" "If one could see in what does Bosch´s paintings become one would see chaos." "A final chaos which is like the original chaos anyway." "The genial chaos is personally unknown is the momento when one thinks" "that the very idea of life is not quite distinguished." "Ah?" "The sea and the earth or the animals of the water and the animals of the earth weren´t well distinguished where the sexes weren´t distinguished, where the organic matter and the mineral matter weren´t totally distinguished." "And he repeated this kind of movement that refuses all order and the point in which it stabilizes." "The orders where there´s a huge difference between the animal and the vegetal, between the animal and the human." "And with him, there´s none, which means that one cannot approve Bosch, one can speak that with certainty, that´s to say, without having approval." "It´s like this and I don´t know why." "So I don´t approve because there are no relations of cause and effect," "there is nothing that could be approved." "And finally, I would like to tell you that we are still live under this relations of cause and effect, under the relations of distinction." "If we think: does a woman really feel like a woman?" "Where is she a woman?" "Is it that she can say where she´s a woman?" "For what?" "For these small differences, it´s a little mean to talk about it." "Can we really say that?" " Maybe." " Maybe?" "And the time is mixed." "I would also like to say on Bosch meaning, that there´s something quite curious," "I return to some details." "A woman held jealously by some sort of werewolf that has legs like roots, and he holds her jealoulsy" "to verify that she isn´t totally seduced by the derriere of some sort of huge frog" "where the legs become tree´s ramifications is where the werewolf is holding the woman that looks a Little drunk, a little languid, ready to go, no matter with who." "So it´s a little scary the fact Donc il est un peu effrayé à l'idée that she could be in love with the face that comes out of the frog´s ass." "And farer and a little higher, there´s people surfing" "There´s a man leaning in the position of Olympic champions like skiing I don´t know exactly how to say it" "which is on some sort of canoe followed by a man wearing skates like those who practice water skiing" "Another was sunk like someone who classicaly breaks his figure like this." "In front of all of them there´s some sort of eskimo who has a penguin." "Strictly without importance, the definition doesn´t count." "Here I can play with the terms as I can." "It´s some sort of penguin, it´s shod by skis and he marches on the skis the skimo is a little chubby" "And they´re there without any reference on material that was available at the time." "That questions the science in general, and makes us think that it progresses like this, from its own progression" "from simpler to more complicated" "Here one has the impression that science is not the materialization of an utopia" "In the upper part of the painting, there´s a spectacle of which I haven´t talked about but I must talk about it:" "it´s the human city, one can recognize it easily:" "an architecture, a city built on a river, bridges, castles it´s without a doubt, the human city because we see the armies defeated or conquering crossing the bridges with their swords in the wind;" "and troops massacred, naked men on the river." "And further on, in an arcade troops marching maybe knights who march with pride." "And the city is on fire." "I repeat, one can recognize it because it´s the war and contrary to all of what I´ve been saying it´s the atrocity, but atrocity that belongs to human society." "The massacres, the massacres, the soldiers and the civil population, and all these buildings that for once present a perspective." "I have said that there was no perspective in the integrity of the painting, the painting has no other perspective than that provided by two dimensions" "meaning, that the only reality that the painting transmits is it´s own reality." "And from the top, we can see that this is a human world not only for what is represented, but also for what is painted." "This destroyed city, this city in war, it´s destroyed, furnaces everywhere, flowing fire everywhere" "It´s without a doubt some sort of apocalypse, the human apocalypse which is the destruction of man by himself" "and it´s this destruction of human society that surely for Bosch represents , what´s going to happen next" "that´s to say, what will happen below, in other words, this enjoyment, this partial enjoyment to infinity." "which is the very fact of this third panel of the triptych."