"( Man ) Okay." "( Woman ) Where were these found, guys ?" "( Man ) Green one on the left side there, red one on the right side." "( Police radio )" "( Cop ) don't let nobody come up here." "( Reporter ) The police in west Memphis, Arkansas confirmed today that three young boys were brutally murdered." "The bodies of Weaver elementary school second graders" "Steven branch, Christopher Byers, and Michael Moore were pulled from a shallow creek earlier today." "There are rumors that the boys may have been sexually mutilated the police say that they do not yet have any suspects in the case." "The missing 8-year-old boys were discovered in an area known as Robin hood hills, a secluded patch of woods behind the blue beacon truck wash along interstate 40 in west Memphis." "( Woman ) Imagine all the evil that you could think of, how someone could be murdered and that's how these three children died." "( Man ) No family should have to go through this, unfortunately, it's gonna happen again somewhere, another town, it's gonna happen again, I'm sure, a lot of bad people out there in the world." "( Man ) I don't know why these three little boys were murdered, did they see something they were not supposed to see ?" "Did they hear things they were not supposed to hear ?" "I do not know that," "I see no reason, I see no motive for why these three little boys were murdered." "( Reporter ) Live from KAIT 8 TV, good neighbors you can turn to for news, weather and sports." "This is KAIT 8 news." "Good evening, I'm Diana Davis." "And I'm Tony Brooks." "In a statement given to police obtained by a Memphis newspaper 17-year-old Jessie misskelley allegedly confesses to watching two other suspects choke, rape, and sexually mutilate three west Memphis second graders." "Jenna Newton reports." "According to the published report" "Misskelley told police he watched 18-year-old" "Damien echols, and 16-year-old Jason Baldwin brutalize the children with a club and a knife." "The report says Misskelley told police" "Echols and Baldwin raped one of the boys and sexually mutilated another as part of a cult ritual." "Misskelley is quoted as saying he did not take part in the rape and mutilation but that he helped subdue one victim who tried to escape." "At a press conference, inspector Gary gitchell said the case against the accused teens is very strong." "( Reporter ) One a scale of 1 to 10, how solid is the case ?" "Eleven." "( Applause )" "( Jenna ) It appears satanic worship may have played a role in the murders." "Since the very beginning of the investigation people all around west Memphis have come forward with stories of satanic cults." "Rev. Tommy Stacy's church is down the street from where the bodies were found." "One year ago Damien Echols told the church's youth minister he had a pact with the devil and he was going to hell." "( Stacy ) I do know that my youth director talked to Damien extensively at the revival that we had and he told him that he could not be saved." "That he could not give his heart to Jesus and my youth director then tried to get him to take a Bible and he made the statement that he could not take a Bible because if he did, the rest of 'em would get him." "In west Memphis, Jenna Newton," "KAIT8 nightnews." "Christopher never hurt anybody." "He had a gentle, loving and giving heart." "And they crucified him in those woods, and they humiliated his little body." "They took his little manhood before he even knew what it was." "And I hate 'em for it." "I've never hated anybody in my life." "And I hate these three." "And the mothers that bore them." "I can't imagine..." "What was going through Michael's mind." "Was he..." "Calling for me ?" "( Todd ) How long did they leave him there tied up on that ditch bank before they decided to kill him ?" "What were they doing to him ?" "Was he conscious or unconscious ?" "Did he watch the other two boys..." "Get cut ?" "( Todd ) He was really being killed by real monsters." "( Laughs )" "On TV !" "Pam, first of all what are you holding in your hand there ?" "It's Stevie's boy scout," "I got it back yesterday." "And, I've been wearing it around my head like this." "Did he like scouting ?" "Oh, he loved it, he loved it." "He loved it." "( Reporter ) Do you blame yourself for this ?" "( Pam ) I have, I have," "I have been on a guilt trip about it but, it wasn't my fault" "I was at work." "Have you contemplated joining Stevie ?" "Have I ?" "Have you thought about suicide ?" "Have I ?" "Uh, "suicide" ?" "I felt like dying, but not suicide, no, not suicide." "Do you feel that the people that did this were worshipping" "Satan ?" "Yes, I do." "Why ?" "Just look at the freaks." "Just look at 'em." "They look like punks." "Little Jessie told me he didn't do it, didn't have anything to do with it, he wasn't there." "I believe him." "( Jessie Sr. ) I think the cops just can't find who done it..." "And they gotta put it on somebody." "I wanna tell the whole world my son's innocent because I know he is innocent." "( Gail ) I know where he was and I know he's innocent and I wanna tell the world and I want the world to know." "This boy is not capable of the crime that he has been arrested for." "I've seen him take a little kitten and love it just like you'd love a little baby." "It's like a nightmare, a nightmare that you can't wake up from." "Our son is innocent." "We intend to prove it." "( Man ) "Yea, though I walk through the valley" ""of the shadow of death" ""I shall fear no evil." ""And I'm not scared of the devil." ""I gotta know who my comforter is." "Thou rod and thou staff comfort me."" "And I thank you lord for lettin' me be able to believe in that with all my heart." "I hope y'all really believe in your master the Satan, that sleuthfoot, devil himself, because he's not gonna help ya." "He's gonna laugh at ya, mock at ya, and torture ya." "He didn't need your help." "The devil's got all the devils he needs." "The good lord said Lucifer, and a third of the angels were cast from heaven." "He didn't need them, but he took their mind and he manipulated 'em, and they prayed to Satan and they prayed to the devil and they had their satanic worship services out here, and they had all types of wild homosexual orgies" "I've been told, crazy things." "To me, this place as I stand is like hell on earth because I know that three babies were killed right out here were I stand." "I know my son was castrated and possibly laid there on that bank and bled to death." "I know he was choked." "I know one boy's head was beat in beyond recognition." "I know one little boy was skinned almost like an animal, cut, had to shave his head, had all types of injures to the head where they just kept beating him and pounding' on him, and killin' him and killin' him" "it's like they enjoyed it, they killed them two or three times." "Jessie Misskelley Jr," "Jason Baldwin," "Damien Echols," "I hope your master the devil does take you soon." "I want you to meet him real soon." "And the day you die" "I'm gonna praise god and I make you a promise, the day you die, every year on may 5th" "I'm gonna come to your grave side," "I'm gonna spit on you," "I'm gonna curse the day you were born, and I'm sure while I'm standin' there" "I'm gonna have to have other bodily functions let go upon your grave." "I promise you as god is my witness" "I'll visit all three of your graves." "The statement Jessie gave to the police is a lie, it's not true." "I don't see why he would do something like that to another person." "I can see why they might think I was in a cult 'cause I wear Metallica t-shirts and stuff." "But, I'm not in nothin' like that." "I couldn't kill an animal or a person." "I don't worship the devil or anything like that." "I worship god like every normal person around here does." "I got a favorite pet, my pet iguana." "Had her for a little over a year now." "I usually go fishin' by myself, right in my backyard." "Just go out there, and my pet cat would be out there his name's Charlie." "Whenever I catch a fish I always give it to him." "I didn't kill these three little boys." "I didn't kill those three little boys." "They were under a lot of pressure they had to find somebody to lay this off on before people started losing' their jobs." "The public was gettin' real upset seeing' the cops were incompetent, couldn't do their jobs, they had to do something fast." "And we were really the obvious choice because we stood out from everybody else." "This all worked out to their advantage." "( Man ) No one's gonna be saying that you're stupid or you're dumb, or making fun of you, but the court's gonna be very interested in determining exactly at what level you were functioning," "how well you're able to read, how well you're able to write, things of that nature." "Does that make sense ?" "Mm-hmm." "So, if the court determines that you are operating below average, then there's a possibility that the court will not be allowed or the state will not be allowed to impose the death penalty against you, do you understand what that means ?" "We've got about 10 weeks before the trial comes up in January." "Are you looking forward to having the trial ?" "A little bit." "Not much." "( Phone rings )" "Hello ?" "( Operator ) I have a collect call, your name please." "( Man ) Jessie." "( Operator ) Will you pay ?" "Yes, ma'am." "Thank you." "Hey, son, how ya doin' ?" "Alright." "That's good." "My hand still hurts." "Your hand still hurts ?" "Did you ever find out if it was broke or not ?" "No, I ain't found out." "I can move it." "If you can move it, it's not broke." "It hurts." "If you can move it, it's not broke." "It's gonna hurt a while 'cause you bruised it pretty good." "You just gotta learn not to hit them walls hit somebody else." "There was nobody in my room to hit." "Oh, okay." "I didn't hit the wall, I hit the commode." "You "hit the commode" ?" "Yeah, I hit it on the side." "I didn't even put a dent in it either." "That must be a hard commode." "I heard that." "What time is everyone gonna come up ?" "I don't know." "Y'all come up anytime, 'cause y'all be in here with me." "Well, uh..." "We'll see you Saturday." "( Man ) They're gonna have to go through the metal detector when you come through the front door," "I want everybody to do that, they've got that portable thing they can bring from little rock if you need it." "Like the airport deal." "We couldn't afford no $3,000 metal detector." "What I planned on doin' was usin' two portables at this door, that's why I want everybody, outside of lawyers, and I want them to come through this door." "There's a potential of a problem area with the..." "Strong feelings of the family, and that's to be understood so, security, not only coming in and out of the courtroom is a problem, but keeping the onlookers and the family and people segregated from the accused is another problem" "that you'll have, Darwin." "My intention was to bring this boy in before, long before court and have him in sight." "( Man ) Obviously I'm very concerned about security." "Simply because of the death threats that have happened, but I don't wanna give the jury the impression, if we have 20 state troopers and 50 county deputies, it's gonna give the impression to the jury" "that my client is a very dangerous person which he's not, and I don't want the jury to get the wrong impression," "I don't want there to be such a circus in the courtroom with reporters and cameras that the jury forgets about what they're here for and that is to administer justice." "( Man ) We expect the proof's going to show that this defendant confessed, that he was not coerced..." "We do not contend that the proof's going to show that every word that came out of his mouth was the truth." "( Defense ) Ladies and gentlemen of the jury this statement that Mr. Misskelley gave the west Memphis police department is a false story, the interrogation techniques that were deployed against him at the time of his statement on June the 3rd" "rendered him completely incapable..." "They broke his will, they scared him beyond all measures." "The proof is going to show that this defendant was an accomplice to Damien Echols and Jason Baldwin in the commission of these horrifying murders and we will ask you to return your verdict of guilty on three counts of capital murder." "( Woman ) We don't know what the truth is but when it really gets down to it..." "His daddy and I are gonna look him scare in the eyes and say, son, did you do this ?" "Was you even there ?" "That's when we will believe." "If he told me he did it..." "Which I don't believe he did, but if he told me he did it..." "He'd have to do his time." "Suffer the consequences." "( Lee ) If he admits to this, he would be strictly on his own." "We wouldn't even send him a dollar for a pack of cigarettes." "No, you're wrong there." "Yes, we would." "No, I would, he's my son." "I'll send him money." "But, he will have to do his time." "I wouldn't give him a nickel." "He's my son." "We can be talkin' about-- we could be talking about my son." "If my son did something that horrible." "No, I wouldn't give him a nickel." "Let him suffer." "You can't turn your blood away." "I don't know how you say you could, and we're gonna have a problem over this." "But, I know how it is being up there in jail without anything." "Well, that's beside the point, if he's guilty if he's guilty of doing this to these little boys." "No." "He's not." "Well I'm saying he's not too." "But, if he happens to-- if it's proven." "No, forget it, no." "No." "I don't believe he did it." "I'll never believe he did it." "This is to Jessie Jr." "Today's his 18th birthday." "And I haven't seen him" "I don't know where to go see him at," "I'm gonna sing "happy birthday" to him." "♪ Happy birthday to you ♪" "♪ happy birthday to you ♪" "♪ happy birthday dear Jessie ♪" "♪ happy birthday to you ♪" "♪ happy birthday to you ♪" "♪ happy birthday to you ♪" "♪ happy birthday dear Jessie ♪" "♪ happy birthday to you ♪" "And don't smoke too much." "( Laughs )" "( Woman ) Now, he's legal to get 'em, ain't he ?" "( Jessie Sr. ) Yeah, he's legal to smoke now." "( Woman ) I may not be his biological mother but giving birth don't make a parent, and I've had him since he was four..." "And it took me about a year to assure that little boy I was gonna be here for him, he wouldn't wanna go to school he wouldn't go outside and play because was afraid I wouldn't be here when he came in" "and when he was in kindergarten if he'd come in and I happened not to be where he can see me when he first come in he would be hysterical when I got to him." "And..." "I've always known that..." "He was..." "He had a problem." "And I," "I've always been real protective of him." "My mom sent me this one." ""There are all sorts of sons" ""sons can be slouchy" ""sons can be sweet" ""sons can be grouchy..." ""Sons can be neat" ""sons can be broke" ""sons can be well-to-do..." "But no son could ever be loved more than you."" "And it says "happy birthday"." "( Jessie ) I cry a lot when I'm in here 'cause I miss my family and everything." "And I just cry a lot." "After that, I go to bed, try to sleep." "( Woman ) My name is Ella Sanders, my son was Antonio Sanders, and he got killed," "Halloween night, 1990." "( Woman ) My name is Brenda mcclaine and my brother was stabbed to death." "( Woman ) I'm Brenda east and my son, Robert, 23 at the time was murdered in 1990." "My name's Anne wallen my daughter was Sheila Dixon she was murdered January the 12th of '91." "I'm Wanda rany." "My daughter was murdered," "June the 27th, we think, we're not sure, they're calling it a crime of passion, they not only throwed her out and let her lay two weeks, he poured acid on her to deteriorate her body." "I didn't have the pleasure..." "Of telling my daughter good-bye." "Funeral was closed casket..." "And this is what I had on the casket." "And it's still very unreal to me." "When the telephone rings I expect it to be her." "My name's Todd Moore." "My son was mark Moore, he was murdered along with" "Christopher Byers and Steven branch may 5th, 1993." "I cannot describe the pain..." "That my family has went through they didn't just kill my son they killed part of me." "They killed a part of my wife, her daughter." "I'm so frustrated because it seems like they have so much rights, we have no rights, they had in the paper the other day, now the taxpayers in griton county are gonna have to buy them a suit" "because they don't want them to go into court looking like what they are, criminals." "They're in jail, they should wear jail clothes." "Why do they need to have a nice suit bought by the county so they look presentable ?" "They don't want 'em in shackles and chains." "You know, these are not boys that murdered our kids." "They stopped being boys when they planned this, and I sit there and watch their parents comin' out of courts, crying talkin' about their son's rights." "What about ourson'srights?" "Where the hell was his rights out on that ditch bank ?" "He had no rights, he had the rights to be brutally murdered ?" "To be beat to death, an 8-year-old little boy ?" "Where was his rights ?" "( Woman ) I'm Diane Moore, Michael Moore's mother, last week in flash market, the echol's man was in there staring me down." "Like it was my fault that I had a child that his child could murder." "We seen the people that are supporting these people, that look at us like we're scum, and these other people are just..." "The greatest thing that they've ever known, now they wanna have 'em all just dressed up and act like little choir boys in court." "Here you go, he didn't do anything wrong." "My son didn't do anything wrong, he's just a boy." "( Man ) Now, on June the 3rd did you have an assignment to locate a particular person ?" "My assignment was to contact" "Jessie Misskelley Jr." "At that time was the defendant a suspect ?" "( Allen ) No, sir." "( Prosecutor ) If he was not a suspect why were you assigned to contact him ?" "He was a friend with-- friends with Damien Echols and Jason Baldwin." "What, if anything, did he tell you..." "During this conversation before the tape recording ?" "He told us that he had attended some satanic cult-type meetings, that boys, along with girls would attend, there would be sessions of sex, orgies, as he called them." "Uh, that..." "Dogs and animals had been killed and in fact those animals, portions of them, have been eaten by the members." "( Mark Byers ) I believe there's angels on earth," "I believe there's demons on earth." "And I believe as angels try to help people," "I believe demons try to possess and hurt people to do the devil's will." "Just how angels try to help people to do god's will." "( Man ) ♪ oh, worship the king ♪" "♪ of glorious above ♪" "♪ and gratefully sing ♪" "♪ his wonderful love ♪" "( Man ) At this time mark is going to sing a song entitled, "whatever it takes"." "A beautiful song, y'all listen to him as he comes and shares." "( Mark ) I believe the lord is gonna direct me, guide me and lead me and we're gonna give the glory to him." "( Church music begins )" "♪ There's a voice ♪" "♪ calling me ♪" "♪ from an old rugged tree ♪" "♪ and it whispers ♪" "♪ draw closer ♪" "♪ to me... ♪" "♪ Leave this world ♪" "♪ far behind ♪" "♪ there are no lights to climb ♪" "♪ and a new place ♪" "♪ in me you will find... ♪" "♪ For whatever ♪" "♪ it takes ♪" "♪ to draw closer ♪" "♪ to you ♪" "♪ that's what ♪" "♪ I'll be willing ♪" "♪ to do... ♪" "♪ For whatever ♪" "♪ it takes ♪" "♪ to be more ♪" "♪ like you ♪" "♪ that's what ♪" "♪ I'll be willing ♪" "♪ to do ♪" "There's no doubt in your mind that about 5:30 P.M. Jessie was sittin'-- he was sittin' right down here." "I had seen the police over there twice." "I'd also seen little Jessie over there and they talked to him." "Police officers talked to him." "Yes, sir." "They had to find somebody to pin this on." "This publicity was getting out of hand." "( Man ) Can you ask those folks inside to step out for just a second ?" "I know that I've talked to each of you, if not directly, indirectly, we need to be very, very careful about who we talk to with regard to the media involved in this case." "There are several members of the media who apparently have no ethics and have decided that they're gonna do everything they can to dig up mud and sling mud, it's not gonna do anything but hurt Jessie and his chances of receiving a fair trial." "You, as friends of Jessie and relatives of Jessie, are prime targets for these members of the press." "And if we just remember the one rule is don't talk to anybody, then we won't have to worry about it." "Does that make sense ?" "So, again I caution you not to talk to anybody in the press, it's just gonna hurt us, thanks." "♪ For my will ♪" "♪ to break ♪" "♪ that's what ♪" "♪ I'll be willing ♪" "♪ to do... ♪" "♪ That's what ♪" "♪ I'll be willing ♪" "♪ to do... ♪" "( Mark ) One thing I like about this right here, black powder gun, is they can't pull any type of ballistics on it, if by some chance you was to shoot something with it, every bullet rifles through the chamber" "just a little bit different." "So, they just can't pull no ballistics off this one." "There's a few people I wouldn't mind shooting with it." "But, hopefully the courts and the justice system's gonna take care of 'em." "If they reach prison, they'll get took care of." "( Mark ) Todd, I could save the state a lot of money." "If they just let me line them three sonofaguns up," "I'd say this one here is for you Jessie, and we're gonna go for the jug of water." "Oh, Jessie, I done blowed you half in two, son !" "This one here's for you, Damien, you that black circle right in the middle." "Oh, you got hurt." "( Todd ) Damn, that sure looked painful, didn't it ?" "Hey, Jason ?" "I want you to smile and blow me a kiss for this one." "Let's go back to Jessie." "I just wounded him," "I want him to bleed a little bit like he made my baby bleed." "Oh, Jessie..." "That breaks my heart thinkin' about that scum." "'Cause this right here's all that needs to be done to him, shot slowly, with a real nice firearm." "And it ain't got no consideration or no feeling who it's aiming' at, just like they didn't care about killing my baby." "I'd be happy with lining them up." "I wouldn't have no problem with it." "I think old Jessie's still kickin' a little." "Put him out of his misery." "What kind of range do we got in the courtroom ?" "Probably about 10 foot right here." "Go ahead and waste old Jessie." "I don't see that bein' much of a problem." "No, because I can just see the scum." "That's good." "Go ahead, he's wiggling, alright," "I could live with that." "( Prosecution ) During the course of these conversations was anything shown to the defendant ?" "Yes, sir." "Alright, what was shown to him ?" "There was a picture that insp." "Gitchell showed him." "And what was that a picture of ?" "( Man ) One of the victims." "When I showed Jessie this photograph, he took it into his hand and he just went back in his chair like this, and he just locked in on it, fixed in on the photograph, and just kept staring at it and staring at it." "Initially, Mr. Misskelley denied any involvement whatsoever in this, didn't he ?" "Yes, sir, he did." "Officer Ridge, the photograph that was just introduced into evidence, depicting one of the boy's bodies, that was shown to Jessie ?" "Yes." "And this was immediately prior to him admitting and telling you this story about being present when the boys were killed ?" "Shortly before, yes, sir." "Why did you guys do that ?" "There had to be a reason to do that." "( Ridge ) There were times when Jessie would not be talking, he's getting slower with information, he's telling us things, it's over and over, the same thing." "Those techniques are used to evoke a response." "( Defense ) You and insp." "Gitchell did these things to evoke a response." "Yes, sir." "To evoke confession." "Evoke a response, keep him talking." "Did it ever occur to you that Mr. Misskelley has a mental handicap ?" "No, sir, it didn't to me on that date." "Did you have any special training dealing with people with mental handicaps ?" "( Ridge ) No, sir." "( Defense ) Did it ever occur to you that this was gonna scare him, showing him a picture of a body ?" "That it would scare him ?" "I don't know, I guess he's scared into making a statement, yes, sir." "( Jessie ) I'm getting nervous every day." "Why ?" "Oh, okay." "That's a stupid question." "( Susie ) Okay." "I can barely hold this phone." "It's getting closer and closer." "I don't wanna even think about it." "I can imagine what they're gonna do to me." "I can imagine." "But, I'm not gonna think that though." "( Susie ) Think good thoughts, while I'm on the phone." "Talk about something good while I'm on the phone." "Hey, you're supposed to be talking to me, not your friends." "These people make me mad." "You know it ?" "Uh-huh." "They get to go out and screw people and I can't." "That's what y'all do, I can't do that." "Well, you will later." "I will later ?" "How do you know ?" "I mean if I can get out, we will." "If I don't get out, we won't." "What I was gonna ask you that Sunday, that I dreamed about you." "You wouldn't believe what I was dreaming." "It freaked me out." "Wanna hear it ?" "Huh ?" "( Susie ) Yeah." "We was having sex, alright ?" "O.K." "We went to the bathroom, we had sex." "When I was going out the front door we had sex right there." "We done it out in the yard, in front of everybody." "It freaked me out !" "I woke up, I was sweatin' bad." "I said I hope that dream come true quick." "What are you gonna do when you get off the phone ?" "Sneak back home." "Go back home ?" "I'm gonna go back home too, when I get off the phone." "I wish you could." "I wish you could." "Yeah." "Well, my time's up, okay ?" "I gotta go, okay ?" "I love you." "I love you too." "Bye-bye." "( Hangs up phone )" "Can you get it in there ?" "Yeah." "I think those two oughta do fine." "Yeah, I'm sure they will be." "Yeah, this one's good." "This one came out." "O.K." "( Mark ) Big difference from any other Christmas." "( Mark ) One I'll never forget." "( Melissa ) It's the first one without him." "I wish you could've been here to hear me sing." "He liked to hear me sing." "This little Christmas tree will stay there real well, it's in there tight enough," "I don't think the wind will blow it over or anything." "C'mere and kneel down here by me." "Oh, god, why did you let this happen ?" "Please help us through it." "God, please help us through this." "( Man ) This is an enlarged photograph of the crime scene, this is the ditch where the bodies were found," "Michael Moore was found in this area at the bottom," "Steve branch was found just behind where these trees are in the stream, and Christopher Byers was found just below, that body right here." "This is exhibit 22, which is the body of Michael Moore, after removing him from the water." "The way he was found." "This is the body of Steve branch," "Steve branch is the one that had the injures to his face." "( Prosecutor ) Was it a particular part of his face ?" "( Man ) The left side." "This is state exhibit 24, the body of Christopher Byers." "( Prosecutor ) What kind of injures did Chris Byers have, did you observe ?" "It looked as though his penis had been removed." "( Sobs )" "Could you see the pictures from where you were sitting ?" "Yeah, that's why I had to leave." "Why ?" "Because I always-- seeing my boy the way he was," "I'll always have that picture of what he looked like, in my mind." "But, you never knew until now." "You said early on you really didn't wanna know." "But, now you're hearing it, is it a lot harder than what you thought it was going to be ?" "It's a whole lot harder than I thought it would be." "It like going back to may 5th and reliving it all over again." "( Defense ) Inspector, let's talk about the things that Jessie told you that are just absolutely incorrect, on page 9 of his statement," "Jessie says that the murders took place around noon, how did you know that was incorrect ?" "Because the young boys were still in school." "Did at any time when he was telling you these things that you knew were incorrect, did it ever occur to you that what he was tellin' you was false ?" "His entire story was false ?" "In Jessie's case," "I feel he did tell us a good bit of the truth but then they also lessened their activity in a statement, that's just common, at least in my 20 years career." "Is it common for the police to simply ignore these big obvious problems and just assume, that everything he's telling you has gotta be correct ?" "Jessie simply got confused." "( Defense ) You and I can tell the cops that we know what our rights are, basically go to hell, we're not gonna take this and walk out." "Jessie Misskelley has no concept of being able to leave a police station, the only thing that the prosecution has put on against Jessie is this wild story that he told the police, and I hope the fact that there's no physical evidence" "linking him to the crime scene is gonna have a lot of impact on the jury, we're talkin' about reasonable doubt." "I think you need to deal with lack of physical evidence, not just to let them get away with the fact that they were in the water and it all washed away." "A crime scene that clean has to be purposely planned, done that way." "The fact they looked washed down was not just happenstance..." "Somebody intentionally..." "Purposefully..." "With great cunning and intelligence tried to get rid of..." "Every spot of blood, semen, mud, footprint, anything that may have been there, they purposefully tried to get rid of all that." "An 18, 17, and a 16-yr-old kid, don't pull that off." "I think there's a lot of professional killers who don't leave it this clean." "( Wilkins ) I really do believe that if the jury hears what serial killers are like, and what they do and how they leave crime scenes, the missing evidence, the souvenirs," "I have know doubt there's a serial killer going around, that did these murders, he may be in Idaho now, but, I don't have any doubt about it." "It is somebody who knew what they were doing, had done it before, has probably done it since then, or will definitely do it again." "( Defense ) Are you aware of any personalty traits of people who are likely to falsely confess ?" "Low I.Q." "Highly suggestible, always attempting to solve the immediate stress factor..." "Get the interrogators off my back and just let me go home..." "Naively assumes that they can all straighten it out later on." "It's extremely difficult for the average person to believe..." "That someone would confess to a crime they didn't do, what I didn't like about this confession is that most of it emanated from questions right off the bat without any narrative of any length at all." "Without any descriptions about feelings, or conversations or anything," "I just don't understand, if he was involved in this crime how he made a mistake on the time factor." "And the thing that really bothers me is the ligature, what was used to tie up the victims, he certainly knows the difference between shoe laces and a rope, that should've been a signal that something was radically wrong." "That's when the questions should've been more probing to determine whether or not he was making it up or giving a valid confession." "( Prosecutor ) Out of the 100 or more people that y'all talked to, are you aware of anybody other then than the defendant, who told you one of the victims that had their genitals removed and one of them had cuts to the side of the face," "and there'd been some grabbing of the ears ?" "There was no one else that mentioned those particular injuries, and, you yourself, you're pointing to the wrong side of the cheek." "( Prosecutor ) Was there any kind of emotional response ?" "( Man ) He had tears coming down his eyes." "Had y'all yelled at him or been mean to him, or threatened him, or promised him anything, or any of those things ?" "None of those things happened whatsoever." "( Defense ) Doctor, can you give us some examples of the police being coercive, leading or suggestive during the course of the interrogation ?" "Yes, I can, perhaps the most powerful example, in my opinion, is the example of the eight revisiting of the question of the time at which the killings occurred." "The first example occurs on page three, det." "Ridge says, "alright, when did you go with them ?"" "Mr. Misskelley says, "that morning", det." "Ridge asks, "I'm not saying when they called you," ""I'm saying what time was it that you were actually there in the park ?"" "Mr. Misskelley says, "about noon."" "Det." "Ridge now says, "okay, was it after school had let out ?"" "This is immediately after Jessie saying" ""it's at noon", he's now suggesting it must be later by saying, "is it after school let out ?"" "Jessie says, "yes"." "Det." "Ridge follows up with his victory, on page 24, and this time det." "Ridge says, and I quote," ""okay, the night" ""you were in the woods," ""had you all been in the water ?"" "Jessie replies," ""yeah, we'd been in the water," ""we were in it that night playing around in it."" "This is the first time in the record, that it is directly suggested to Jessie, that the correct answer is" ""this happened at night", immediately upon that being suggested," "Jessie..." "Responds by accepting and you he starts to use the word "at night", where he had never used it before, that is an influence tactic, it is a way, of getting someone to accept something," "out of pressure and out of suggestion." "But, that's one example, there are many other examples of manipulation on important points throughout this record." "( Prosecutor ) Mr. ofshe, is your going rate approximately $300 an hour ?" "No, that's not." "What is it ?" "My rate is a $150 an hour for consultation, and $300 an hour for time spending in court or in deposition." "( Prosecutor ) So if you're initially asked to evaluate a case, you don't get the $300 an hour unless you give an opinion that's consistent, with what the person asked you wants to hear." "They don't call you as a witness, you don't get your $300 an hour, correct ?" "Incorrect." "I don't know what the terminology is in Berkeley California, but..." "When the defendant identified who it was who was castrated, when he indicated that one of the boys was cut in the face, you don't know and you can't give an opinion that any of those questions were coercive in nature ?" "No, I can't because the record that we are dealing with is very incomplete, because this part of the record is preceded, as everyone agrees..." "By over two hours of interrogation, in which many subjects were discussed, for which we have no record." "♪ Welcome to where time stands still ♪" "♪ no one leaves and no one will ♪" "♪ room is foam, never seems to change ♪" "♪ just labeled mentally deranged ♪" "♪ dream the same thing every night ♪" "♪ I see our freedom in my sight ♪" "♪ no locked doors, no windows barred ♪" "♪ no things to make my brain seem scarred ♪" "♪ sleep my friend and you will see ♪" "♪ the dream is my reality ♪" "♪ they keep me locked up in this cage ♪" "♪ can't you see it's why my brain says ♪" "♪ rage... ♪" "♪ Sanitarium ♪" "( Defense ) Jessie Misskelley, didn't tell the police anything that they didn't already know." "They led him him through this entire taped statement." "And ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we don't know what happened before they turned the tape recorder on." "They didn't videotape it, the officers didn't take notes on all the questions, they testified to that." "They even testified that they couldn't remember some of the things they asked him." "How do we know what really happened ?" "The defense, through bringing in, so-called experts, such as Mr. Ofshe, have tried through smoke and mirrors to make it sound like, a person that confesses to such a heinous crime, and admits their involvement" "and gives you specific details in the involvement, that's indicative of someone, who was forced or coerced to confess." "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my client, little Jessie Misskelley, is an innocent man." "He's innocent." "And I would ask you to go back to that jury room, and bring back a verdict that rings of justice, truth and justice, and I would ask you to bring back a verdict that you can live with for the rest of your life." "( Prosecutor ) See this picture ?" "This is the Moore boy." "This defendant won't look up, he won't look at you, but this defendant's actions, you just think about it, if this defendant does not chase down Michael Moore..." "If he does not run through the woods and chase him down and bring him back," "Michael Moore lives." "Michael Moore gets to go home at night, his parents get to be with him." "But, because of this defendant's actions..." "Because of what Jessie Misskelley Jr. did," "Michael Moore's dead," "Stevie branch is dead, and Chris Byers is dead, and there's no getting around it." "I think when you go back and you apply your common sense and you do what's right, and you think about the evidence in this case, you're gonna know that what the evidence shows is, that this defendant ran down Michael Moore," "that this defendant was there, he was involved, and he's guilty of three counts of capital murder." "3-2-1." "The jury went out at 4:20 this afternoon, they'll decide if Jessie Misskelley is guilty in the deaths of Christopher Byers," "Michael Moore and Steven branch." "Misskelley is charged with capital murder, and, if guilty, could get the death penalty." "Two other teen-agers charged in the crime, will be tried later this month in jonesboro." "In corning, Wayne Hoffman," "A.R.N.News." "Short but sweet." "( Woman ) Can't you twitch your nose and make them come back with a "not guilty" verdict ?" "If I could twitch my nose and do that," "I'd have been gone a long time ago." "( Woman ) There's still hope." "( Jessie ) I'm not giving up, though." "don't ever !" "don't get in there and get mad and go off..." "They tell me, "how come he always keeps his head down ?"" "Because I was told to keep my head down." "If you'd raise up and look around then, they'd be saying something else." "( Woman ) don't let it bother you." "( Jessie Sr. ) That's what they're saying about Damien, always stretching' his neck, lookin' around." "Damien's a good kid." "I guess, I don't know !" "( Woman ) I didn't realize how much I loved him until this." "I always loved him, but this is just-- well, thanks a lot !" "You know I always loved you," "I'm just sayin' I didn't realize how much !" "( Woman ) You're coming home." "( Man ) You gotta get out of here." "Just say a prayer when the jury comes out." "'Cause we'll be sitting there sayin' one for you." "We hope we can carry you home." "It's kind of horrible." "You gotta learn to control it." "( Judge ) Alright, ladies and gentlemen in the audience," "I am acutely aware that..." "You're..." "Feelings are all on edge, that there's a great deal of emotion involved, but the court cannot tolerate and will not tolerate, any verbal outbursts, any display of emotion whatsoever, and I recognize that that's difficult" "and that's why I'm warning you in advance." "The verdicts read as follows," ""we the jury find Jessie Lloyd Misskelley Jr." ""Guilty of first degree murder" ""in the death of Michael Moore," ""we the jury find Jessie Lloyd Misskelley Jr." ""Guilty of second degree murder" ""in the death of Stevie branch," ""we the jury find Jessie Lloyd Misskelley Jr." ""Guilty of second degree murder" ""in the death of Chris Byers, signed by T.J. Williams, foreman."" "Alright, Mr. Misskelley, if you could come around the front here and Dan," "Mr. Misskelley, did you hear the jury's finding and the reading of the verdict in your case ?" "Yes, sir." "Do you have any legal reason or cause to tell the court why sentence should not be imposed at this time ?" "I heard you but you need to answer out a little bit louder." "No, sir." "Alright, is there anything you wanna say before sentence is imposed ?" "You have a right to make any statement you care to at this time." "Are you satisfied with the service and advice of your attorneys through this trial ?" "Yes, sir." "Alright, based upon the jury's verdict, finding you guilty of first degree murder in the death of Michael Moore, you'll be sentenced to the Arkansas dept." "Of corrections for a term of life, in the count involving the death of Steven branch, the jury having found you guilty of second degree murder, you'll be sentenced to an additional term of 20 years," "and in regard to the death of Christopher Byers, the jury having found you guilty of second degree murder, you will be sentenced to an additional term of 20 years in the Arkansas dept." "Of corrections, that is you will receive a life sentence plus 40 years." "It's hard to think of how it would've gone any other way, but you can never tell with a jury of 12, they could've found a verdict of not guilty, and we had to sit there and tell ourselves," ""god Grant us the Serenity" ""to accept the things we cannot change" ""the courage to change the things we can and the wisdom to know the difference."" "So we had to be willing to accept what happened, and thankfully the verdict went our way." "( Reporter ) There must be mixed emotions because you had the guilty verdict but you still have the loss to deal with." "This doesn't change anything." "Christopher's dead, and he was tortured to death by three murdering bastards on a ditch bank, he was 8 years old." "And guilty is guilty." "And I hope the little sucker, when he hits prison, they get his ass right off the bat !" "Because he deserves to be tortured and punished for the rest of his life for murdering three 8 year old children !" "( Reporter ) How come you kept your head down the whole time ?" "( Reporter ) Jessie, anything you wanna say now ?" "( Reporter ) Did you do it, Jessie ?" "( Reporter ) Did you do it, Jessie ?" "( Reporter ) How are you feeling right now ?" "( Car starts )" "Prison's not a safe place." "Jessie, sweetie." "I'm gonna mail him a skirt." "( Mark ) One down two to go." "Hopefully the same thing will happen to the next two, and we'll get the same verdict." "They found my son's testicles in a jar of alcohol in Damien Echols' house, with his fingerprints on the jar." "Now, how do you dispute that ?" "Some idiot started a rumor saying that they found umm..." "Children's sexual parts under my bed or in my house." "And there was no body parts in my house." "I think maybe the police had something to do with it." "If they can make us look bad in front of the public, people are gonna kinda have their minds made up, before anything ever comes out." "We wanna talk to you about all this stuff in the paper about a deal with Jessie." "Right now we don't know what his situation is, although we think he is more inclined to testify right now than he has been at any point, up to now." "The Friday that Jessie was convicted, by questioning, the officers that took him down inquired of him what had really happened, apparently, Jessie, contrary to somebody that was innocent, that would say things like, "gee, I've just been convicted," "I didn't do it, what a terrible injustice"," "Jessie talked all the way down there about how he committed the crime, and specific details, unfortunately we need his testimony real bad." "If it was a perfect world, we would take what we have on Jessie and leave it, and we'd go and get the other two, and get them and be happy, but it's not," "and, we need his testimony to be sure we get convictions on the other two." "I think we're gonna negotiate his sentence down some in order to get him to testify." "He's not gonna testify just out of the goodness of his heart, the only way that I think that he will be willing to testify, is if the life sentence is removed." "I do wanna say, all is not lost, if he doesn't testify, but the odds are reduced significantly." "We still got some evidence." "What we've got, besides Jessie, we got..." "A fiber that was found on, it was found on Stevie's shirt, that matched the fiber from Jason Baldwin's mother, which is called secondary transfer." "We've got a fiber from a shirt, or a couple of fibers from a shirt found at Echols' house, found..." "One of 'em was on Michael's cub scout cap, another one maybe on the shirt, that matched Damien's." "Fiber evidence, in my opinion, is better than hair evidence, but they can't say that it came from that particular garment to exclusion of all others." "We've got the hollingsworth clan that says they saw Damien out on the service road, we've got some..." "Kids that say that they heard him at a girl's softball game, overheard him say that he killed the three boys and he was gonna kill two more before he turned himself in." "( Man ) They haven't scared them off, like they did the other ones ?" "No, not yet." "We've got..." "A guy that was in jail with Jason who says that Jason made some incriminating statements to him, now, there are some things that they're gonna try to do to attack this kid's credibility." "Then we've got the knife that was found in the lake behind Jason's house, so, that's what we've got, but, that's all basically we got." "You asked what the odds were of convicting them without Jessie and it's 50-50, not be good." "( Man ) The only way he'll come up there and sit down in that witness chair and testify, is if they cut him a sweet deal, you take all the things that are wrong with his statement" "and then add to that recipe mix, that I'm talkin' now because I got a sweet deal, and I'm gonna get out in 10 years, hypothetically," "I may get out in 10 years." "Heck, who wouldn't sing ?" "You know what I'm saying ?" "Then, his evidence, his statement, his whole thing looks bad, if that's their best evidence, and trust me, it is, if they can't use that statement against you, they got nothin'." "And this dog and pony show is over." "'Morning." "( Reporter ) Are the rumor's false about Jessie turning ?" "Is it true that Jessie's gonna testify against Damien and Jason ?" "That's false." "I just left Jessie at the jail and he told me that he was not gonna testify, he didn't want to get up there and lie, that the officers have been working on him real hard, but, he wasn't gonna listen to them," "and his decision was final, but he can always change his mind again, he has, he's a very confused and scared kid, and the officers have scared him to death." "Last night I said, Jessie, if you get up there and lie," "I'm gonna be in that courtroom, and you're gonna have to sit there and tell that lie, when you know that I'm sitting there listening to you, when you know I know that you are lying." "( Reporter ) Damien, are you in a cult ?" "Are you worried about Jessie testifying against you ?" "( Prosecutor ) In looking at young people involved in the occult, do you see any particular type of dress ?" "I have personally observed people wearing black finger nails, having their hair painted black, wearing black t-shirts..." "Sometimes they will tattoo themselves." "( Prosecutor ) Do you have an opinion as to whether or not there are occult overtones, or evidence of occult involvement in these particular murders ?" "Well, the date being close to..." "Belting..." "A holiday, may 1, also..." "The day before that is a holiday, then you go into the fact that some groups, occult, cult groups, will use a full moon." "In several occult books, they will talk about the life force of the blood." "Usually the younger the individual, the more pure it is." "The more power or force it has." "A lot of times they will take blood and store it for other services, and other use, as well as consume it, or bathe in it." "Now the..." "Item that's drawn on the front, what is that ?" "That is a pentagram, that happens to be a "wiccan", or white witchcraft pentagram." "( Prosecutor ) Now, if you open the book to the front page." "Yes, sir." "( Prosecutor ) Now..." "Explain what that is." "That's confusion to me." "The reason why is we got a white witchcraft..." ""Wiccan" pentagram, then we have upside-down crosses, which comes from another type of a occultism." "What type ?" "That's black witchcraft." "( Prosecutor ) Is it "Wicca", satanism, or both ?" "Both." "And did you notice anything in particular about the book ?" "There's a chapter in here called "rise of the devil"" "and..." "It is underlined in red." "And there are a couple of sentences in there, reference to blood, and it's life force." "How were you accepted into enrollment at Columbia pacific university ?" "I had to fill out several series of papers including all my education, background, experience." "Did you ever fill out a little flyer like this ?" "No, sir." "It says, "call toll-free for information on how to become a doctor ?"" "This is a mail order college, isn't it ?" "( Defense ) What classes did you take between 1980 and 1982 to obtain your master's degree ?" "What classes ?" "I testified" "I'm asking you, what classes did you take ?" "I answered that before, none." "You did not take any classes, between 1982 and 1984 when you became a PH.d." "What classes did you take ?" "None." "None, o.K." "Is it your opinion, and do you want to tell this jury..." "That these crimes, were motivated by occult beliefs ?" "Yes." "( Man ) We're not trash, by no means, by son was born in west Memphis, he was raised in west Memphis, and for the life of me, I cannot understand why people have got this bad imagine of him." "So what if he wore a black trench coat ?" "He's not the only one that does." "So what if he wore black t-shirts, black pants ?" "Johnny cash wears black, doesn't he ?" "I wear black, Michelle wears black, domini wears black !" "We're all just partial to black, I guess." "I like black myself." "And, I'm by no means no devil worshiper, nor is he." "He was goin' to school, he wanted to go to school to be a priest, he was faithful in the church." "He looked into a little bit of "Wicca", but, he never went to it, and I think if people looked into what "Wicca" is they would understand it a little better." "The only thing wiccans do, is worship the earth." "( Damien ) People probably think that I'm into satanism because usually what people don't understand they try to destroy..." "Or ridicule." "Try to make it look bad or wrong." "West Memphis is pretty much like second Salem." "Because everything that happens here, no matter what it is, it's blamed on satanism." "( Judge ) He's been previously sworn." "Correct." "( Defense ) Please state your name for the court." "Damien Wayne Echols." "Why did you change your name ?" "I was very involved in the catholic church, and we were going over different names of the saints," "St. Michaels was where I went to church, and we heard about this guy from the Hawaiian islands, father Damien, that took care of lepers, until he finally caught the disease himself and died." "( Defense ) Was that the reason you choose Damien as your first name ?" "Yes, it is." "Did the choosing of the name "Damien"" "have anything to do with any type of horror movies, satanism, cultism, any of that nature ?" "Nothing whatsoever." "After the time period that you were really into the catholic religion, did you start focusing on another particular religion ?" ""Wicca"." "Could you explain to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury some principals about the Wicca religion ?" "It acknowledges a goddess in a higher regard as a god, because people have always said we are all god's children, and men cannot have children." "It's basically like a close involvement with nature." "Is there a difference between the Wicca religion and witchcraft ?" "( Damien ) Wicca is also called "witchcraft", the word "Wicca" was bastardized, it originally meant "wise one"." "Did the fact that you like to wear black all the time, were you different in other ways as well ?" "Yes, I've never had a lot of the same interests that other people have, like sports, things like that," "I've never been into anything like that." "Did it help you deal with other people to have people kind of stand-offish and sort of back away from you ?" "Yeah, it was like a defense mechanism, it would make people think like, well he's weird I'm not gonna go around him, so, it kept people away." "The state introduced the book" ""never on a broomstick", are you familiar with that particular book ?" "Yes, I am." "Where did you get that book, Damien ?" "At the library, all the books that they were gettin' tired of or had for a long time, they had them sittin' on a rack out front, that they were selling for 10 cents each," "so I got it." "Did you underline any of those portions in the book ?" "That was done when I got it," "I think it was because somebody had a report to do, 'cause all during the book there's little notes, certain dates and stuff, like from the 1600's in the outside margin." "So was that book kind of like a history of witchcraft and how it's developed over the ages ?" "Yes." "Are you familiar with the contents of that notebook ?" "Yes, I am." "I noticed on the inside of the front cover there appears to be a couple of quotes there, could you read each of those to the jury and tell them where that came from ?" ""Life is but a walking shadow," ""it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing."" "That's from a "midsummer's night's dream", by William Shakespeare." ""Pure black looking clear," ""my work is soon done here, try getting back from me, that which used to be."" "That is off a Metallica tape, called "and justice for all", talks about how warped the court systems are, and stuff like that." "On may the 5th..." "Did you kill Michael Moore ?" "No, I did not." "On may the 5th, did you kill Stevie branch ?" "No, I did not." "On may the 5th, did you kill Chris Byers ?" "No, I did not." "Have you ever participated in any type of human sacrifice ?" "No, I have not." "19 year old Damien Echols admits he stands out in a crowd." "He says he loves heavy metal music" "3-2-1... 19 year old Damien Echols says" "3-2-1... 19 year old Damien Echols admits he stands out in a crowd." "He says he likes to wear black most of the time, practices the "Wicca" religion, and loves heavy metal music, but he says he's definitely not a killer." "( Woman ) I believe they did it, and if they were to be set free on the street, then they would have to look behind their back, watch behind their back, to see if Pam Hobbs wouldn't follow 'em." "Because I'm just saying this as a human." "I would," "I believe I'd try to kill them two, if they ever walked the street, and I'm still alive." "I believe I'd be stalking them." "To do to them..." "Probably shoot 'em, and then cut 'em up." "( Woman ) When I was down at the courtroom and Damien walked past me," "I wanted to go over there, and take my hand and just claw down his face, inflict any kind of pain, that I could inflict on him." "I know, eventually, we're gonna have to forgive 'em," "I understand that, but when it happens in your home and you watch your wife lose her mind, and whatever happened to her, your home is tore apart and busted up," "I don't feel it's fair right now, for someone to ask me to forgive the ones that caused it." "It'll take some time, a long time, before I could forgive 'em." "( Man ) You say that it's gonna take time, we don't know how much time we got, and we wouldn't be able to see Stevie again, we have to forgive in our heart," "because the lord, forgave us, he forgave us, he shedded his blood for us." "He shedded his blood for them." "And he just asked us to have a..." "Forgiving spirit." "Now, I refuse, to serve sin and Satan." "Because I'm gonna see Stevie again," "I'm gonna be with Stevie again," "I'm gonna be with my mother again." "I'm gonna be with your grandmother, both of them." "I'm gonna be with all of my loved ones, that have passed on and went to heaven." "( Man ) If you could speak to the families..." "Of these kids who think you did it, what would you say to them ?" "I don't know." "( Damien ) Jason was my best friend, we did about everything together." "It was kind of like we even lived together most of the time, stayed at each others houses, wore each other's clothes." "It was more like we were brothers." "We used to go out and snake hunt all the time." "Snakes and music were about our whole life really." "We were all the time lookin' for new groups, that we would like." "Our favorite kinds of music were like slayer, Metallica, megadeth." "U2..." "Would we would do just about everything together." "( Prosecutor ) I wanna draw your attention back to August of last year, were you were in the craighead juvenile detention facility ?" "Yes, I was." "And what were you in there for at the time ?" "Burglary." "And, when you were there, was there a Jason Baldwin in the juvenile detention facility at the same time ?" "Yes." "While you were in contact with this Jason Baldwin, was there anything mentioned about his involvement in the murders of the three eight year olds ?" "Yes, we were sitting there playing spades and I wanted to get to know everybody off in there," "I don't know what you'd call it, but, I just wanted to get to know him, and I just straight out asked him if he did it and he denied it the first time." "Did you have an occasion again while you were there to ask him was he involved in the murders of the three eight year olds ?" "Yes." "I think it was like the next day." "I believe it was the next day." "And can you tell us what was going on, what was happening at the time that occurred ?" "Me and Jason were scraping' up the cards, goin' to our cells for lunch, and I said, "just between me and you, I won't say a word, did you do it ?"" "And he said "yes", and he went into detail." "What did he tell you ?" "He told me how he dismembered the kid, or I don't know exactly how many kids, he just said he dismembered 'em, he sucked the blood from the penis and scrotum, and put the balls in his mouth." "( Prosecutor ) Now Michael, when was it that you..." "Came forward with this information ?" "I'm not really sure," "I believe it was like a couple of months later." "What caused you to come forward at that point in time, why did Michael Carson no longer wanna stay uninvolved, why did you come forward in February this year ?" "'Cause I saw the family on TV," "I saw how broken-hearted they were about their children being missing, and I got a soft heart, I couldn't take it." "( Defense ) Now, he tells you this and then you're silent..." "From August, until February, is that right ?" "Yes, sir." "And in the second conversation you've ever had with this young man in his entire life he tells you all this stuff ?" "Yes, sir." "After he's had oneconversationwithyou ." "( Carter ) Yes, sir." "( Man ) One day when I was up here workin', the phone rings, secretary says, you won't know who he is but he needs to talk to you," "I pick up the phone, he says I'm Danny Williams," "I'm embarrassed to tell you what I need to tell you, he said but I work with the juvenile department here, and I do drug and alcohol counseling, and there's a guy named Michael Carson who's gonna testify that" "Jason confessed to him in jail and I know he's lying." "I said, what are you talkin' about ?" "He said, well, several months ago," "Michael Carson was one of the kids that I worked with, and..." "He and I had a conversation where I told him that this Jason Baldwin had been accused of killing three boys and sexually mutilating them." "And basically, he gave Michael Carson the details that he testified to at the trial." "At the time Carson says nothing..." "And then Carson later tells him," ""hey, by the way Danny," ""I'm tellin' the police that Jason confessed to me", so he calls me up and says no, no, this kid's a liar, he's no good," "I know he's lying, and the only reason he's got this information is because I gave it to him." "The counselor of this kid called the prosecution and told 'em what a liar he was and the prosecution still used the kid, and now they're tryin' to keep out the fact the background of the kid." "Obviously we wanna get that information out but the judge acts like he might not let us use it at all." "We should absolutely be able to let that jury know that he is" "LSDdependent, because it does effect his ability to recall." "The judge takes all that away from us and says, the kid looks pretty believable." "Not only are they keeping out the background of the kid when he testifies, so the jury doesn't have all the eggs, but now they're keeping out the counselor, who even knows about this kid," "who told him the story in the first place, prior to him ever telling the police." "All that goes to the credibility." "I think that would've shown the jury that he doesn't have quite that kind heart." "That soft heart." "( Prosecutor ) Det." "Allen, I want to direct your attention to November the 17th, 1993, were you asked to make contact with some property owners at lakeshore trailer park, and also get with the Arkansas state police dive team ?" "( Allen ) Yes, sir I was." "And after a period of time of..." "Searching, do you know whether any items were recovered ?" "Yes, sir." "Mark for identification purposes, the state's exhibit 77, and I ask if you can identify that." "Yes," "I can identify this by my..." ""11-17 of '93, m." "Allen", that I put here." "( Prosecutor ) Where did you get the knife ?" "( Allen ) I got this knife from the diver with the state police." "How long did this search take ?" ""How long ?"" "From memory, I'm thinking, maybe 10:30 A.M." "Is the time they got suited up and started to look." "You quit at when ?" "They located the..." "Knife, at 11:35 A.M." "11:30, 11:35." "About an hour." "About an hour-- are you telling this jury that this knife is the murder weapon ?" "Is that what you're tellin' this jury ?" "No, sir, I'm not telling the jury that." "Okay, now that we understand that." "What day were these individuals charged ?" "What did day did y'all charge Damien Echols with this crime ?" "Was it June the third ?" "Yes, sir." "And what day was it that you were out there searching this lake ?" "This was on 11-17 of '93." "November 17 of 1993 ?" "Yes, sir." "That's all." "As long as they get an arrest, they don't care." "The damn system stinks !" "They're playing with our lives, and there's nothing right about it." "It's kind of like the Nazi's, they can just take somebody's word and come in your house, and take you away." "And basically that's what they did because of what Jessie told them, even though it had all those inconsistencies in it." "If we had money, do you think these 3 boys would've been picked up ?" "They found people they knew didn't have Ne the boys have been in a little bit of trouble, they thought we didn't care, they were wrong." "They're bad wrong." "I don't believe that children could be that cold-blooded, as what happened to those boys." "( Man ) On the state's exhibit, 67-a, it shows the..." "Hog-tying fashion, the hands were hog-tied, to the feet, behind the back, and this is the photograph, showing the shoe laces..." "( Man ) That injury, you say, is typical of a belt injury, the belt has a little buckle, and that's one that goes back and forth left to right, that's the base of the latch." "Here, this red area here, this is the shaft of the penis, and here is where the scrotal sac and testes should be and they're missing." "So what we have is the skin overlying the penis, the head of the penis, has been carved off, it's gone, it's not there." "( Defense ) In layman's language, that I understand, with respect, his penis has not been cut off, has it ?" "No, the skin has been taken off the penis." "And basically it would take some skill and precision to do that, wouldn't it ?" "I would think so." "If this was to be done, this dissection, where the skin is cut off, that would take a very sharp instrument would it not ?" "I think it would." "Such as a razor." "Or a sharp knife." "A very sharp knife, doctor, if you were to do this, with the skill and precision and knowledge that you take, how long would it take you to do that ?" "( Doctor ) It would take me some time." "( Defense ) It would take you longer than 5 to 10 minutes ?" "I would think so." "And that's in your lab." "I would think so." "With a scalpel." "Is that correct ?" "That's correct." "Now, doctor if we added to the equation that you were in the dark, could you do this in the dark ?" "You, doctor, could you do it in the dark ?" "( Doctor ) It'd be difficult." "Could you do this in the water ?" "You, doctor, could you do this in the water ?" "I think it would be very difficult to do." "If you were doing it in the dark, in the water, with mosquitoes all around you." "Would that make it even much more difficult ?" "I would think so." "It would be a very tedious task for you, a skilled pathologist." "It would." "Now, isn't it true, doctor, that people have about 5 pints of blood ?" "A little more than that, yes." "Okay, now, if I poured out five pints of blood out here on on the floor, it would make a big mess, wouldn't it ?" "Yes." "And it would be almost impossible to clean up." "You can do it but, not very easily." "It's not easy to clean blood." "Does blood soak into the ground ?" "Yes, it does." "( Defense ) Doctor, with this homicide, we're talking about here today, would you agree with me that, this could've happened in one of three ways, these injuries could've happened in the water," "these injures could've happened on the bank, or could've happened somewhere else." "Would you agree with me those are the three possibilities of how this could've happened ?" "Yes." "Now, with your knowledge of the amount of blood that was lost, from, not only Chris Byers, but these other boys, they're gonna bleed as well, won't they ?" "Oh, yes." "Do you have an opinion as to whether or not you could clean up that amount of blood ?" "At a scene, in the dark ?" "Do you have an opinion as to that ?" "I think it would be quite difficult to do, to have..." "Injuries of this nature, without having any blood..." "I would question that about the blood." "Unless it happened in the water or it happened some other place." "( Defense ) And you again, doctor, stated that you couldn't do this in the water ?" "Personally, I don't think I could." "I don't get off on hurtin' people, or inflicting pain on the rest of the human race, or just..." "Causing destruction for the purpose of destruction." "I've probably been in one or two fights my entire life." "And especially a child..." "Because they didn't do anything to deserve what they got." "And I believe whatever you do to someone else, whether it's good or bad, is eventually gonna come back around to you." "Even the person who did this, if they're not caught and punished, something will happen in their life where they will be punished." "( Girl ) People kept tellin' me not to go out with Damien because he was like some kind of devil worshiper, and I met him in Wal-Mart..." "And he followed me around like a puppy dog..." "And we started talking and he was real sweet, not like everybody else was making him out to be, that night we starting going out, and it was like a month, and he called me up on the telephone" "at my dad's girlfriend's house and he goes, "will you marry me ?"" "And I'm like, "what ?" "!"" "And he goes, "will you marry me ?"" "I said, "can you repeat that one more time ?" "!"" "And he goes, "will you marry me"," "I said, "yeah", and when I got pregnant" "I had this big picture painted in my mind," "Damien's gonna be there, and I get to yell at him when I have the baby." "And instead I was yelling at her." "I miss him so much." "And he hasn't yet to see the baby, they won't let him touch the baby." "It makes me so pissed off." "I felt different when he was born it was" "it made me feel like," "I guess just real good inside..." "To think that I gave life to another human being." "Something completely separate from me but still part of me." "I just hope that I'll be there when he grows up." "To watch him." "( Prosecutor ) You are familiar with a fellow named aleisterCrowley?" "I know who he is." "He's the guy who kindly professes, he's a noted author in the field of satanic worship." "I know he is but I never saw any of his books, personally." "You're not really much of a follower of his ?" "I would've read 'em if I would've saw 'em, but, I just never..." "But, Aleister Crowley, is a guy that based on his writings, believes in human sacrifice, doesn't he ?" "He also believed he was god, though." "And he also had writings that indicated that children were the best type of human sacrifice, correct ?" "Yes, sir." "( Prosecutor ) But, Aleister Crowley doesn't have any particular significance to you ?" "I know who he is," "I've read a little bit about him, but, I never read anything by him." "Let me show you a copy of documents, do you recognize that ?" "Yes." "What is that ?" "It was this paper I had on different alphabets for like translations, where you can write things that nobody could read, and this was one of the forms." "Oh, okay, where'd you have that at ?" "When did you write those things out ?" "Some time before I was arrested I guess." "Are you sure that you hadn't done those since you were arrested while you been staying in jail ?" "I don't know, I might have." "( Prosecutor ) Who's names are written on that document ?" "Mine, Jason's, my son's, one that says Aleister Crowley-- wait, wait !" "Who ?" "Aleister Crowley." "This is a document that you've written while you've been waiting in jail for trial, right ?" "If you say so." "You wrote it, it's your writing ?" "Mm-hmm." "Do you recall when you wrote it ?" "Not really." "What I'm gonna ask you is, that this Damien Echols, your son, he wasn't born until after you were placed in jail, correct ?" "Yes." "So if you've got his name listed on this document, then this document had to be generated after he was born ?" "Yes." "So this is something you've written since you've been sitting in here in jail waiting for trial." "Yes." "And what you were doing was writing out various names in different types of alphabets, correct ?" "From the way it looks here I was practicing, trying to memorize them." "And one of the names that you picked out to write about was this fella named Aleister crowely, correct ?" "Mm-hmm." "Is that just a total coincidence, you just pulled his name out of the air ?" "No, it's the same book that I had with the different alphabets and it also had stuff about him in there." "Did you have the book out at the time you were doing this ?" "This was just from what I remembered myself," "I was practicing, trying to memorize, get it all in my head." "So you were going over it and working on it, and at that point in time, you write all this down from memory ?" "Mm-hmm." "( Prosecutor ) The people that are listed here, you got your name on here, right ?" "( Damien ) Mm-hmm." "( Prosecutor ) And Jason Baldwin, which is your best friend, right ?" "And then you got Damien Seth Echols, that's your son ?" "( Damien ) Yes, it is." "( Prosecutor ) And the only other name on this document, besides yourself, your best friend, and your son, is Aleister Crowley, correct ?" "Yes, sir." "( Judge ) I believe this witness has requested not to be photographed." "That's correct, your honor." "Would you state your name for the jury ?" "Christi vanbickle." "Do like you just did and speak up best you can, okay ?" "Are you nervous ?" "( Christi ) Yes." "Did you hear somebody say something about the murder of the three little boys ?" "( Christi ) Yes, I heard Damien Echols say that he killed the three boys." "( Prosecutor ) Where were you, was he sayin' that to you, what were you doin' ?" "( Christi ) I was walking by with my friend." "Christi, I'm Scott Davidson," "I've got a couple of questions to ask you too, okay ?" "First of all, do you remember what day this was that you heard this ?" "No, sir." "That's the first time you'd ever seen him in your life ?" "( Christi ) Yes, sir." "( Defense ) What did he say beforehesaid he killed those three boys, what did he say before that ?" "( Christi ) I don't know." "( Defense ) What did he say after that ?" "( Christi ) I don't know." "( Defense ) And how close were you to him ?" "( Christi ) I wasn't close." "( Defense ) Did he scream it ?" "( Christi ) I don't know." "( Defense ) Did he yell it ?" "( Christi ) I don't know." "( Prosecutor ) Call Jody medford." "( Judge ) Again, this witness has requested not to be photographed." "Jody, I want to direct your attention to may of 1993, after the murders of the three little boys." "Did you have occasion to be at the softball field and hear a comment in regard to the murders ?" "Yes, sir." "Tell the jury first, what you heard." "( Jody ) He said "I killed the little boys" ""and before I turn myself in I'm gonna kill two more, and I already have one of 'em picked out."" "( Prosecutor ) You didn't recognize anybody else that was with him ?" "( Jody ) I saw Jason Baldwin there." "Had you heard people talking about Damien before this ?" "Yes, sir." "Did you think, do you think he was kind of weird or something ?" "Yes, sir 'cause he was dressed all in black and his hair was jet black and long and shaved on the side." "( Reporter ) Two teen-age girls took the stand this morning and they said they heard Damien Echols confess to the murders of three 8 year old boys last may, one of the girls said she overheard Damien Echols say," ""I killed the three boys, and I'm going to kill two more," "I already have one picked out."" "Later in the afternoon, when the defense began presenting it's witnesses," "Damien Echols, himself took the stand, he said he thought the girls were lying and that they were making up those statements." "He also said he did not practice satanism, and denied any involvement in the murders of Chris Byers," "Michael Moore and Stevie branch." "Were you working at Bojangles restaurant on the evening of may 5th of 1993 ?" "Yes, sir." "Could you tell us what happened ?" "Well, it was about 9:30 at night," "I found a black gentleman sitting in the in the woman's restroom on the commode, and there was blood dripping off of his forearm, but, he had mud on his feet, and he seemed to be" "disarrayed when I talked to him." "I called the police then." "( Defense ) What happened then ?" "( Man ) It was a female officer for the west Memphis police, and she pulled on the lot and I saw her coming so, I went up to the front door." "She kept comin' around, she went to the drive through window." "( Defense ) You did not go in the restaurant ?" "No, sir, I did not." "Did you ever find this bleeding black man ?" "No, sir, I did not." "Do you have a report that you made regarding this incident ?" "No, sir, I do not." "And you're out looking for some boys, you're out in that area and you hear about someone bleeding, did anything go through your mind thinking, something may be going on ?" "You gotta understand, it's a different area I went to, it was a different ward," "I did not connect the two at all." "( Defense ) It may have been outside your ward, but, distance-wise between the area where you were looking and where this restaurant was, it's not a long distance, is it ?" "No, sir, it's really not." "( Defense ) Did any other officer come out there that evening ?" "Not that evening." "Were you working on the day of may 6th of 1993 ?" "Yes, sir, two detectives came out and they took a report as far as what I'd seen, description of the gentleman, and then they took blood scrapings off the wall." "What is the date that you sent the blood scrapings off to the crime lab to be analyzed ?" "They were never sent." "They were never sent ?" "That's correct." "Where are the blood samples at this time ?" "I don't know, they're lost." "That's my mistake, I lost a piece of evidence." "( Damien ) Most of the time he came up with the stupid ideas." "I guess I influenced him about as much as he influenced me." "Most of the time we didn't really, set out to do anything in particular." "We just starting hanging around, whatever happened just usually happened." "Sometimes good, sometimes bad." "We're just sitting on the couch watching TV the night we were arrested." "Pigs busted in, starting runnin' all over the house." "We tried to hide in the bedroom when the cops first came." "They wouldn't leave !" "We were in the bedroom, turned the light off, maybe they'll go away." "I know you're in there, open up !" "We saw all the lights go out." "And Domini turned 'em back on." "No, it was my sister." "( Man ) The interesting thing about it is the one knife, that we know somebody owns is the byers' knife." "We know he owns that knife." "He's got the motive, his son who he's upset with, his son was the only one mutilated, the other two weren't mutilated, he's got knowledge about the area, he knows when the search is over with," "he's big enough that he can carry the boys there and throw them in, he's a jeweler, he's precise enough to have committed that mutilation, all of the pieces fit together with somebody in a different location," "killing the boys in a different location, because there's no mosquito bites on 'em, so we know that after the boys were killed, and during, they weren't outside." "They had to be inside 'cause there's no bites on 'em." "So that means they were carried from a death scene someplace, unconscious, and brought down to the river, and they had to be killed shortly before they were brought down there, because they all died within a short period of time." "So after they were bled to death, after they were bludgeoned, and unconscious, somebody had to take those three, take 'em to the scene, and dump 'em." "In order to do that, you gotta be physically strong enough to carry an unconscious kid..." "Who's hog-tied." "Jason couldn't have done it, in his best day, he couldn't carry a little baby, with those little skinny arms of his." "So when we look at this whole thing, all the pieces that they tried to put together, none of it fits with Jason and just about all of it fits towards a person like byers." "( Prosecutor ) When did you receive that knife ?" "I believe it was on the 8th," "I've got-- it's hard to make this out," ""January the 8th, 1994."" "Alright, and, who did you receive this knife from ?" "I received it from..." "How did i actually receive it ?" "No, who did you receive the knife from ?" "I received it from..." "Joe and the people with hbo productions." "O.K." "Bruce and..." "Wherever he is." "Upon receiving that knife, what did you do with it ?" "( Man ) I saw what i thought to be some type of substance on the knife, and naturally I did not know what it was," "I, in turn, sent this knife to genetic design." "When the knife was received by your firm, did you or your lab, run tests on that particular knife ?" "There was a small amount of what appeared to be blood that was dried, or tissue in a crevice on the knife, where the knife folds when it locks." "The results of the test showed us that there was DNA present on the knife, and that we were able to get a type, using a test called" ""hla-dq Alpha"." "And Mr. byers had the same type that was detected from the specimen from the knife." "Okay, and what was the "dq-Alpha" type for Christopher byers ?" "It was also the same type." "So, the blood on the knife, and Christopher byer's blood, and John mark byer's blood all had the same type." "Correct." "( Defense ) Judge, if I can approach the witness ?" "( Judge ) Alright." "Take a look at that knife." "I will call that, for identification purposes, the "John mark byers' knife"." "Doctor, did you make a comparison with this knife," ""e-6", and compare that with some of the wounds that you found on Chris byers ?" "Yes, I did." "Does that knife appear to be a serrated knife ?" "Yes, this is a serrated knife." "Do you have an opinion if some of the wounds that you found on Chris byers were consistent with wounds which would've been caused by that type of serrated knife ?" "Some of the wounds that have the smaller serrated patterns, could have been inflicted with a knife having this type of serration." "( Man ) How do you think this has gone over so far on the mark byers' aspect ?" "( Man ) Obviously we thought long and hard about mentioning a father as a possible suspect." "( Man ) I hate having to do that, but the way the circumstances are, it's just coming out whether we want it to or not." "We had suspicions even before the knife showed up." "( Man ) Do you think anybody realizes the reason for the three day delay in Jessie's trial was waiting on that DNA test to come back on byers' knife ?" "( Man ) I doubt it, and even after the results came back, and it showed that it could be mark's blood, as well as Chris' blood, that doesn't alleviate the fact that he said" "no one had ever cut themself on the knife." "And it shouldn't have had blood on it at all." "Do you think the argument at least that it wasn't that the blood was found on the blade, which could be easily wiped off, but it was back in the hinges that you normally wouldn't think if you were wipin' off the blood," "you wouldn't think the blood would be inside the hinges, and that's where they found that particular blood." "How do we get that in ?" "Just ask gitchell ?" "Ask byers, we can put byers up on the stand." "( Man ) I think the jury expects to see him now." "They wanna see what he has to say, don't you think so ?" "I think so." "Mr. byers, i need to ask you about, defense exhibit number "e-6", this particular folding lock-blade knife." "If I can approach the witness your honor ?" "( Judge ) Yes." "Take a look at that knife, please." "Had that knife ever been used before ?" "Used for what ?" "Used for any purpose ?" "I had..." "Trimmed me toenails with it," "I had attempted to trim on some venison that I had." "You attempted "to trim on some venison", when was it that you attempted to trim on some venison ?" "Some time around the Thanksgiving holidays." "Do you recall being asked on January the 26th, this is on page 3, by insp." "Gitchell," ""had you ever taken that knife hunting, or used it recently ?"" "Do you remember being asked that question by gitchell ?" "Specifically, no, sir, he asked me a lot of questions." "Do you remember giving the answer "no," ""that knife had not been used at all," ""it had just been kept up, put in my dresser," ""and I didn't use it, and the reason why was because of the serrated edges."" "Do you recall giving that answer to gitchell on the 26th ?" "No, sir, i don't recall giving him that exact answer." "I'm sure his question wouldn't have been asked exactly like your question." "Did gitchell tell you," ""let me explain a problem we had," ""and you need to answer this from me, we have found blood on this knife", did gitchell ask you that question ?" "I don't remember if he said there was or not." "Did you tell gitchell you had no idea how Chris' blood could be on that knife ?" "( Byers ) Yes, sir, I would not have any idea, if his blood was on that knife," "I would not know how it got there." "Did you have any idea how human blood was on that knife ?" "Yes, I would have an idea," "I cut my thumb." "Alright, isn't it true that you never told gitchell on jan. 26th that you ever cut your thumb with that particular knife, did you ?" "Yes, sir, it seems like during the course of the day" "I did tell him that." "Was that during the taped conversation or was that after ?" "I don't remember." "Okay, on the top of page 8, do you recall being asked the question," ""i have no idea, no idea," ""how it could have any human blood on it", do you recall giving that answer ?" "Yes, sir." "Then do you recall stating," ""i don't even remember nicking myself with it, cutting the deer meat or anything."" "Is that the answer you gave ?" "Yes, sir." "And is that the truth ?" "At the time when he was questioning me," "I might not have remembered, we were getting ready to go into a trial..." "Did you remember on this date cutting yourself with the venison, or not cutting yourself ?" "The date that Gary questioned-- yes, sir." "I might not have remembered it at that time, when he was questioning me, but, I could have remembered it later on in the day and talked to him about it." "Earlier that afternoon, had you given Chris a whipping ?" "Approximately around 5:30." "About 5:30, was this with a belt ?" "Yes, sir." "How many times did you hit him with the belt ?" "I spanked him two or three times." "And what part of the body did you spank him ?" "It would've been just on his behind." "Was he wearing his paints, or did you have him pull his pants down ?" "No, he had on blue jeans." "The judge back there during that last recess before you were recalled here, says that you have a brain tumor and you're being treated, do you wanna talk about that, is it true ?" "It's been rumored." "Yes, I have a brain tumor." "And you're being treated ?" "Yes, I'm being treated for it." "I need to ask you one question and I hope you won't get angry, but has even the suggestion that you may have had something to do with the murders of these boys caused any problems within your family" "or with any of the other victim's families ?" "( Woman ) No." "They all the know the truth and, no." "Did you have anything to do with these boy's deaths ?" "No more than you did." "( Reporter ) Someone said you're buying a new house, that you're leaving west Memphis ?" "( Byers ) I didn't say that." "We might try to move." "( Reporter ) Out of west Memphis ?" "Well, somewhere, youwould probably wanna move." "You know ?" "Did you say where you were gonna move ?" "No." "( Woman ) Let me ask you a question, would you wanna live in a house that your baby died less than 3/4 of a mile from ?" "I wouldn't, no." "That answers the question." "( Reporter ) You're talking about your whole family, right ?" "You're not just talking about you ?" "( Byers ) You wouldn't move and leave your wife and children somewhere would you ?" "( Reporter ) Not if we were gonna stay together." "( Byers ) O.K." "Some of the questions you ask are kind of ridiculous, some of 'em are kinda odd or strange or different, how ever you'd like to comment on 'em, but, some of 'em seem like you just use a little common sense" "and think about what you would do or how you would feel." "Some of the questions you wouldn't have to ask." "( Reporter ) We have to ask them, we can't quote ourselves." "I know, but a lot of times things are printed in the paper that people did not say and the news media," "I'm not stating which individual, says they got it from a confidential informer, and you don't like to turn your confidential informer over, when you're confidential informer is your imagination." "There's a lot of things that printed in the paper that people did not say." "But the media has the rights to print what they wanna print." "Victims don't have any rights." "Now that I've heard him talk..." "I kinda had an idea of what he was like before he talked, but after he talked he wasn't anything like i thought he would be." "( Reporter ) How is he ?" "I see him now as more like a human being than I did before." "Now I see him as having a personality." "From a defense standpoint," "I've never been a defense attorney, but, to put him on the witness stand, sure seems to be an awful big gamble." "I can't understand that mindset that puts you in the position where you're willing to take that gamble." "( Man ) Especially when you follow it up with Mr. bojangles' accusations." "It didn't make any sense." "'Cause to me, if I were on the jury, it would look like something desperate, they're gonna cast blame on anybody and everybody they can." "And the defense didn't have the the guts to actually ask him did he do it ?" "The song that I really can relate to by metallica is "sanitarium"." "'Cause I feel like all those times I was put in the hospital" "I didn't need it." "It was just the police, another way for them setting me up, when they couldn't send me to prison." "We'll get him out of our way for a little while, by sending him somewhere else." "I like metallica because, well, all..." "Hard music like that, because, it gives me an adrenaline rush." "Makes me feel more alive." "Now during the course of, talking to Mr. echols, did you ask him, who did he think did it and why ?" "In one area he says he had an opinion for who could've done the murders, as being someone sick, and it was some type of thrill kill, he also stated that the penis was a symbol of power in his religion," "known as "wicca", he also stated that the number 3 has a sacred number in the belief." "( Prosecutor ) Did he tell you anything about demonic forces ?" "( Man ) Yes, he said that all people have a demonic force in them and that a person would have no control over that demonic force." "( Defense ) Mr. echols was not the only person that told you that the kids probably died of mutilation, was he ?" "( Man ) No, sir." "( Defense ) And, when, Mr. echols, you asked him, what type of books did he enjoy reading ?" "( Man ) Yes, sir." "Um..." "And he told you Anton Levy and Stephen king ?" "Yes, sir." "In your opinion is there anything unusual about those being the type of books that he likes ?" "Anton Levy, is a book of satanic rules and involvement." "Stephen king's seems to be horror movies, horror books." "You're asking if I felt that was strange, yes I did." "Now let me refer you back to your statement that you gave officer Ridge." "Did you tell him in that statement that you had been a member of a white witch group for 5 years ?" "No." "( Damien ) I've never been a member of any group." "If he put that in his report you're saying that's inaccurate." "Yes, I am." "He made that up." "Yes I am." "On question number nine, how do you think the person feels that did this ?" "The answer was, "probably makes them feel good, gives them power."" "Now, I guess officer Ridge said that too." "No, I used common sense on that." "If someone was doing it, they must've wanted to, and if they were doing something they wanted to it must've made them happy." "I don't think they were doin' it 'cause someone forced them to or because they didn't want to." "So, in your mind..." "The person that killed these three kids, it's common sense that killing three 8 years olds would make you feel good." "Whoever did it, it must have." "( Prosecutor ) Did you also tell him that each person had a demonic side to them ?" "( Damien ) I believe every person has a good side and a bad side." "Were those your words, what he's got written down here, you stated that that there was no control of the demonic force in a people ?" "He asked me did I think there were some people that could not control that side," "I said yes, i guess there is." "( Prosecutor ) It also states that you stated that the younger the victim would mean more innocent, and in turn more power would be given the person doing the killing." "Right." "Did you say that ?" "Yes." "Those are your words." "Did you pick that up when studying to be a catholic ?" "No." "I saw that on several movies, books." "( Prosecutor ) Question #11, when he asked you, how do you think they died, the answer is," ""mutilation, cut up all three," ""heard they were in the water drowning, cut up one more than the others..."" "Is that again what officer Ridge said and you just agreed ?" "No, I saw that on TV, newspapers, people talkin'." "And..." "You knew about the drowning, correct ?" "I knew that they were in the water," "I didn't know that they drowned." "You knew that one was cut up more than the others ?" "He said, "do you think one was hurt worse than the others ?"" "Oh, so again, that particular area's, one of those things where officer Ridge told you and that wasn't your response, you just responded about the drowning and mutilation." "If he didn't get the answer he liked, he would go back and try to get me to say something else." "And it's your testimony, specifically, that you weren't the one who said that one was cut up more than the other, that it was officer Ridge who said that." "I agreed with him when he said that." "And if he says something different, he'd be lying about it, right ?" "You're the one tellin' the truth." "I wouldn't put it past him." "( Man ) Damien, we're getting close to the end now." "How do you feel so far ?" "I feel good so far." "To me it looks like we got it beat." "( Man ) What do you think the worst thing for us has been ?" "In the three weeks we've been here, what has hurt the most ?" "I only know of two things that have really hurt, that one kid gettin' up there for Jason, and those girls." "( Man ) The Thursday's newspaper which addressed you testifying on Wednesday, was real good, it talked about that you did well, but Friday's, regarding your thurday testimony wasn't as good, what do you think ?" "I think I did real good the first day, the second day it didn't look as good, because they kept trying to trip me up or something." "( Man ) There was one point in there where he asked you he says "it looks like your just changing' your story, to fit whatever comes up", and you said "yeah"." "I was just like halfway listening to him." "I was real nervous when I first got up there, enough to keep my attention focused, after I was up there a few minutes," "I just started day dreaming." ""Day dreaming"." "( Laughs )" "Maybe they'll only halfway kill you when they convict you." ""Halfway" ?" "How do they do that ?" "I don't know, maybe they'll start day dreaming." "Anything wrong with wearing black in and of itself ?" "No." "Anything wrong with the heavy metal stuff ?" "No..." "The book, anything wrong with that ?" "No, but when you look at it together, you begin to see inside" "Damien echols, you see inside that person, and you look inside there and there's not a soul in there." "My client is a teen-ager, and we certainly didn't hide that fact from ya." "And the fact that my client did some writings, take these back, go back and read 'em, but this, in and of itself, is no evidence of murder, and even if you added all the other things," ""trappings of occultism", according to Dr. griffis, that has nothing to do with this case whatsoever." "Is it a coincidence..." "That this knife is found, in the lake, hidden..." "Behind Jason Baldwin's house ?" "There are marks on Christopher byers, where you got like a dash, where it's a cut, a cut, an open space, a cut, an open space." "And if you take this knife and you do that, you can see it leaves a cut and an open space, a cut and an open space." "Now, if you take..." "Thisknife..." "Exhibit..." "Defense exhibit six..." "And even with the slightest pressure, it makes a straight line." "Crime scene..." "It doesn't fit for a kid to bleed to death, and not leave a drop behind." "For all the other injuries to their faces, these other injuries are gonna bleed too." "And there's not a drop of blood ?" "Not a drop of blood ?" "Look at history, look at hundreds of years of religious history." "There have been hundreds of people killed in the name of religion." "It is a motivating force, it gives people who want to do evil, want to commit murders, a reason to do what they're doing." "( Defense ) Satanic panic." "Yeah, that's a scary thing." "It's a scarier thing to convict someone with no evidence, if you can't figure it out, if it doesn't make sense, let's call it a cult killing, and find somebody weird !" "Find somebody who wears black !" "But, they let one thing go by the wayside..." "Is that there's nothing that links Jason to these activities." "Not one witness says," ""that's what he does, that's his beliefs"." "We don't have a writing, a drawing, a picture, not a person, nothing..." "Links him to it." "But that doesn't matter." "That doesn't matter to them !" "Because he's sittin' over there with Damien, they want you to convict him." "Guilt by association is a horrible thing." "( Reporter ) Damien, do you think he looks like you ?" "I don't know, not really." "I think he's got domini's ears." "( Reporter ) Can you change his diapers, Damien ?" "( Reporter ) Do you think you'll be spending more time with your child ?" "I hope." "( Man ) C'mon, Damien, it's time." "( Man ) What's his first words gonna be, "not guilty" ?" "His first words will be "capital murder"." "( Man ) What's it feel like to go through a month long trial accused of something you didn't do ?" "Horrible." "Are you nervous now ?" "Yeah." "There's nothin' we can do now but sit around and wait, but, you got anything you wanna ask me ?" "Where do we go when the jury comes back out and says I'm not guilty ?" "Where do you wanna go ?" "Disneylandmaybe." "Would you like to go to Disneyland ?" "Have you ever been on a trip at all ?" "TheSprings." "Well I tell you what, my man, it would be a Joy to take you." "Would you like to go ?" "Yeah." "Do you understand now why we didn't want you to testify ?" "Yeah." "Do you see how that hurt Damien, i think it did." "Did you see how they talked about his witnesses ?" "They didn't have anything to talk about us, they didn't have anything to talk about, 'cause we didn't give 'em a chance." "And..." "Oh, man." "It's heavy." "Do you think that this will change at all..." "How you choose your friends ?" "Yeah." "What do you think this will do to you and your friendship with Damien ?" "Stop it, I guess." "Would you stop being his friend ?" "I wouldn't be his enemy, but, I probably wouldn't be around." "You heard what was said about him." "Do you think he could've done it ?" "About what they said ?" "Do you think Damien could've killed those little boys ?" "They made it seem like he did." "What do you think ?" "I don't know." "If you were on that jury would you have a hard time letting him go ?" "Based on what you heard ?" "Yeah." "I would too." "Would you let yourself go ?" "Yeah." "If I was..." "Up there I'd let myself go." "That's the answer i wanna hear." "'Cause you know you didn't do it, don't you ?" "Yeah." "( Man ) Did Paul surprise you on his closing ?" "I think Paul should've left out the guilt by association part." "He came out hard on that, didn't he ?" "Did you have any idea he was gonna do that ?" "Mm-mmm." "I thought he'd be smart enough to stay away from that." "Hurt your feelings ?" "I wanted to strangle him." "Were you watching the jury ?" "Mm-hmm." "How do you pick it ?" "With my finger." "( Laughs )" "Now, I think it was probably about 60-40." "40 for us, and 60 against us." "Once you get outta here, you gonna buy the beer ?" "The whiskey." "I don't want beer." "And I'll buy the bojangles' chicken." "I wanna get a cigar, cut it open and dump all the tobacco out, fill it up with marijuana, smoke the whole thing." "We gotta get you out of here, you gotta go to work and pay my bill." "I'll get a job at a gas station or something, change my name to "Bob Smith"." "Alright, ladies and gentlemen, the bailiff's informed me that you've arrived at verdicts, if you have, pass them to the bailiff or the sheriff." "The first verdict reads at as follows," ""we the jury find Damien echols guilty of capital murder" ""in the death of Stevie branch," ""we the jury find Damien echols guilty of capital murder" ""in the death of Chris byers," ""we the jury find Damien echols guilty of capital murder" ""in the death of Michael Moore." ""We the jury find Jason Baldwin guilty of capital murder" ""in the the death of Chris byers," ""we the jury find Jason Baldwin guilty of capital murder" ""in the death of Stevie branch," ""we the jury find Jason Baldwin guilty of capital murder in the death of Michael Moore", all of the verdicts were signed by the foreman, ladies and gentlemen, it's necessary at this time that the court" "poll the jury, as to all six verdicts, so when your name is called, if these six verdicts represent your individual verdict, then answer "yes" as your name is called." "Juror number one." "( Woman ) Yes." "Juror number two." "( Woman ) Yes." "Juror number three." "( Woman ) Yes." "Juror number seven." "( Woman ) Yes." "The prosecution didn't have any evidence, but they don't care." "Just because somebody wears black and has different beliefs, they're gonna convict them of something." "( Woman ) Poor, poor parents, yeah, I'm sorry for 'em" "( domini ) I ain't, i ain't sorry for 'em." "( Woman ) I don't give a damn about the parents, but I'm sorry for the kids." "( Sobbing ) I ain't, ain't sorry for an." "( Woman ) There's no reason to kill three more boys." "That didn't do a damn thing." "( Woman ) Right now I wish i was a witch, talk about a spell on somebody." "Boy, I'd put a good one on." "I guess gitchell goes out with a big "bang", you know he's fuckin' gonna retire." "( Woman ) Now he's probably gonna run for office." "I got an office for him." "Mayor of hell." "As far as I'm concerned west Memphis can go to hell." "( Woman ) West Memphis is hell." "I have put my 20 years in, and hopefully this is the last case" "I'll have of this magnitude, hopefully, it's my last case." "And..." "I'm leaving on a high note." "So there's no better way to leave than your head up, high and proud." "Well you know, i don't" "I'm not surprised, if that's what you're asking." "I told you earlier," "I thought the evidence was more than sufficient to make those findings." "They won't kill no more babies." "No more babies will they kill." "Let's go." "( Woman ) You're gonna get out !" "( Man ) You're gonna fry, Damien !" "( Woman ) You're gonna fry, Damien !" "( Man ) We know you're innocent, Jason !" "I knew from when i was real small, that people were gonna know who I was," "I always had that feelin', but, I just never knew how they were gonna learn." "I kinda enjoy it, 'cause now even after I die, people are gonna remember me forever, they're gonna talk about me for years, people in west Memphis will tell their kids stories, it'll be sort of like" "I'm the west Memphis boogey man." "Little kids will be lookin' under their bed," ""Damien might be under there.""