"I hope that I am still alive when this film is shown, because this kind of thing is dangerous in the sense that one considers oneself complete, with the right to self-analysis, when nothing is complete." "I am in the middle of my life." "I am at the formative stage." "I am still an adolescent." "So, if I am alive when this film is seen that would mean that everything is magical!" "The first question I want to ask is:" "Who are you?" "That's an impossible question not to be asked." "The Emperor of China asked the same question to Bodhidharma." "He had crossed India to come to China where he thought he could find disciples." "So, the Emperor met him and asked:" ""I translated 2000 books." "What is my merit?"" "And Bodhidharma answered:" ""There is no merit!"" "The Emperor said: "Who are you to speak to me like that?"" "And Bodhidharma replied:" ""I don't know." And he left." "You can only know who you are when you are dead." "You cease to exist when you say, "That's what I am."" "As soon as I can define myself, I am dead." "People consider me a mystic because I treat themes that others avoid treating." "But I consider myself neither a mystic nor an artist." "I am someone who is playing games." "I am a gambler just like people in casinos who spend all their money." "But as an artist, what I burn is part of myself, my ego." "Write on my hand with your finger." "I am extremely attracted to what I don't understand." "My intuition tells me that therein lies something important to study." "That's how I started to mime:" "I didn't understand what physical expression was about." "Did you start to mime in Chile?" "Yes." "I was a successful actor at the university theater." "Then I realized that my success didn't come from me but from the text I was reading." "I asked myself: "What is an actor?" "A parrot that reads a text?" "Or everything but the text?"" "So I decided to found a theater without any text." "That's how I discovered the art of mime." "It was in the early fifties." "I already had my company in Paris at that time." "Alejandro came from Chile and was searching for an art form like mime." "In Chile I had a company of sixty people." "But I felt I had nothing more to learn." "So I decided to come to Europe." "I had reached my limit." "Then Alejandro and I met again in '62." "He wrote "The Cage" for me." "He told me the story without miming:" "A man walks and finds a cage, a wall..." "Alejandro didn't show it to me but at that time I had already invented this concept that I didn't learn from Decroux, my master:" "This point of support in space." "Alejandro felt it." "We were in a state of osmosis." "The character is a prisoner in a square cage that shrinks as he is trying to get out." "He puts his hand out to feel the air, freedom." "He manages to get out but finds himself prisoner of a bigger cage." "The cage shrinks and this time he remains trapped." "The first person he finds is stingy." "He asks him for money, and the man refuses." "The character is obsessed with crime." "Knives are drawn, but he rejects them." "Finally, he takes a knife." "He uses it because he is refused money... and he kills the stingy man." "He opens his chest and wants to eat his heart, but the heart is much too hard." "This was a bad heart." "So I rejected it." "The second meeting is with a woman." "At that point, Alejandro and I had a discussion." "He wanted me to eat the heart of this beautiful woman." "In the first meeting, the heart was too tough to eat, but when I met this beautiful woman, I was to invite her to dance... then kill her, take her heart... and eat it." "I told him that I couldn't and showed him something else instead." "I imagined that this heart..." ", was like transparent blood, which vanishes." "I never met this woman." "She was just an illusion..." ""Very good!" said Alejandro." "The third meeting is with the children who represent the future." "The man comes across this child..." "actually, two children." "The first one is afraid and manages to escape." "The second stays behind, and he kidnaps this child." "I remember I could hear mothers in the audience... indignant at the kidnapping." "Then I take out the knife... and I kill the child." "It is unbearable." "It goes beyond Artaud... in the concept of cruelty." "Then I take his heart and drink his blood." "Through this act I become the child." "I realize that I have destroyed posterity so I kill myself and give the heart back to the child who comes to life again." "He then leaves, thanking me." "Panic." "This is a reference to the god "Pan."" "The Panic Movement is a sexual act in its totality." "The Panic Movement was based on the explosion of reason." "We knew what was to become obvious for science today:" "That we are unable to explain the world solely through the means of reason." "I wanted to do shows that would never be repeated." "This increased my possibilities  of expression considerably." "We would use gelatins, rotten food, massive destruction... and a lot of things." "We now have the choice between the absurd and mystery." "It's the scientific choice:" "The absurd or mystery." "We are not obsessed with the absurd... we are not fanatics about the absurd... we are not fanatics about mystery... we are not soldiers of confusion." "What we are for is... uncertainty... this impossibility to explain... the fact that time and space is an illusion." "This explosion... shows us that we cannot live... holding on to this overwhelming reason... which prevented us from flourishing." "We broke off with surrealism... because Breton had created a surrealist respectablity... that we wanted to go beyond." "He didn't accept science fiction, he wanted the fantastic and the poetic." "He didn't like rock music." "He didn't like..." "let's not make a list." "He didn't like anything in the world." "Surrealism had become an incredibly petit bourgeois movement." "Would you like to talk about your theatrical work?" "I started in Mexico..." "A wild place... with avant garde theater." "My first act there was Beckett's "Endgame."" "They called Samuel Beckett a dog, a son-of-a-bitch." "He was insulted." "I was insulted." "They vomited on me." "All the critics, everyone." "As if we were degenerates." "Then they were embarrassed when Beckett got the Nobel Prize." "It was scandalous." "I did Ionesco, Exit the King..." "Those shows lasted for several years." "I did about a hundred plays." "Adamov, Beckett, Ionesco, Strindberg theater of the absurd, Arrabal..." "Jodorowsky is insanely talented." "Quite literally, he's talented to the point of madness." "But, as with all madmen, there's a method to his madness." "He's a mathematical madman." "He's a divine madman." "He's a constructivist madman." "And this madness, this intelligence, this talent... for there's no talent without madness... find their unique expression in directing, I believe." "You directed "Fando  Lis" on stage and then on screen." "Yes, I loved that play..." "I played a role in it... one of three main characters... and I loved it." "I loved this play by Arrabal... because it had a sort of childish purity in a sadomasochistic world." "It was poetry to me." "I produced the play, we made no money, but we loved it." "So we ran out of cash we had to stop." "I remember I cried." "We were sad to have to stop." "For we loved that play." "Then I decided to make films  and asked Arrabal if I could adapt his play in my own way  without a screenplay." "I filmed on weekends  with what memory of the play that remained in my head." "The performance of"Fando  Lis" and the film that followed are a total mystery for me." "I never understood it, and I don't want to." "The day I understand it I will love it less." "I just saw "Fando  Lis" again." "Thirty years later I am impressed with the intensity of my artistic determination." "It is a pure piece of art without any concession." "I didn't care about how the audience would react, whether they'd be bored or shocked." "I didn't care about all the technical research, like finding a rhythm for a scene for the sake of the audience." "I didn't work with the audience in mind." "I just did it with all my guts." "You can see the result." "I am proud of this film because it is real." "In Mexico, no one expected such a film." "People literally wanted to kill me!" "I had to rush out of the Acapulco Film Festival hidden in a car because they wanted to lynch me." ""The Holy Mountain" begins like a fairy tale." "I play two characters:" "The magician and the thief who speaks with my voice." "The thief represents the ego and the magician the essential being." "From a fairy tale the film evolves into realistic cinema with a hand-held camera and little means to reach the truth." "And the magician becomes real, like you and me." "Art has always been present in my life." "I never made any distinctions between making a film and my life." ""The Holy Mountain" was an essential experience." "At the time I was obsessed with reaching enlightenment." "So I thought that the film could be as sacred as an initiation or a holy book, and we had to live it." "In Mexico, a man knocked on my door and said:" ""Mr. Jodorowsky, I'm here because I want to study enlightenment."" "I was delighted." "I told him he had to find himself, to purify all the things gurus say." "He interrupted me, saying:" ""No, that's not it."" "I said, "What do you mean that's not it?"" ""I want to study theater." "Talking about illumination," "I see that you use a lot of lights in theater!"" "I understood my mistake." "All this Chinese, Japanese and Tibetan stuff goes directly to my balls." "Illumination doesn't exist." "We are all illuminated we just don't realize it." "The great mystery is to be alive, here and now." "Nothing else is as important as that." "It's an incredible mystery." "What more are we looking for?" "Do you consider yourself a magician of cinema?" "I would like to be, but I am not, and it's not because of modesty." "I have only done six or seven films, which is very little." "Cinema is a matter of practice, a bit like karate." "You punch and punch until you achieve magic." "But I haven't punched enough to find the magic." "As a matter of fact, I haven't even begun to make films." "It's only now that I begin to see that." "For me cinema is highly important." "When making a film, one disappears." "The person who made my films is not me." "I was always like a medium in a trance." "When I choose an actor, my whole body trembles." "One actor is one film." "Another actor is like another film." "That's important to know." "If you make a mistake, the film is spoiled." "Sometimes, I follow my intuition, and I don't know if they will act well and become sick, but therein lies an instinct, a desire, an unconscious order." "It makes me sick because I can be wrong." "For "Santa Sangre," I chose my son Axel," "I didn't know if it was because I loved him as a father or if it was because of his acting skills." "So I decided to have him pass an audition." "I went to his examination at Marceau's mime school and was convinced." "But I was still afraid I had made a mistake because he was my son." "So we discussed it, my life is in your hands." "If you are wrong, we're done." "If I'm wrong, we're done." "For "The Rainbow Thief", everything was imposed on me." "I fully assumed this nightmare." "The producer wanted to offer a present to his wife by making a film out of her script." "She is a talented writer, and somehow was influenced by my filmmaking." "She has her world, she's a good writer... and I found her script interesting." "But the producer warned me that the film would cost at least 10 million dollars so I had to adapt to American business rules..." "I was not free." "I had three detectives spying on me to make sure that I wouldn't change any lines." "Every time I wanted to make even a small change I had to call the writer and the producer." "He hired stars like Omar Sharif, Peter O'Toole, and Christopher Lee, and he warned me that in case of an argument," "I had to leave... not them, so I had to be careful not to argue with them." "It was a good massage for my ego." "It was like receiving 300 blows with a stick every day." "But I managed to adapt and deal with the new circumstances." "I became friends with the photographer by adapting." "On my other films, I was a total dictator." "For "The Rainbow Thief," I was a nobody." "The producer saw the rushes before I did and would say..." ""Please add a close-up there."" "I felt like I was going to have a "balls attack"!" "Eventually I adapted, and it was good for me." "I learned how to do it, and it became useful in the end." "For "Tusk," the producer swindled me." "He made me sign for an elephant fight, but in India it is impossible to have elephants closer than 15 meters to each other on the set." "All I needed was one shot with the elephant close enough to touch at least once for me to claim there'd been a fight." "On the day of shooting, inspectors came to check the distance." "I began to pray." "First take, nothing second take, nothing." "At the sixth take, one elephant just got mad and started to charge." "I had my fight... what a miracle!" "There is a lot of violence in your films..." "There is no violence." "The explosion of galaxies is violent." "A comet falling on Jupiter making seven big holes is violent." "The birth of a child is very violent." "Someone passing away..." "and I have assisted dying people..." "I go sometimes." "Even if the person is quietly dying, it's immense violence... this loss of consciousness." "Life is violent the circulation of blood, the heart beating, all this is violent." "But there are two types of violence:" "Creative and destructive." "I am creating art." "And as I was born in a male body, my art is virile." "Because I was born in this virile skin." "I've chosen to be born as a man." "Sometimes I have feminine or angelical touches, but there is a strong virile base." "That's the way it is." "He came to see me because he liked my film "El Topo."" "I decided to use my creativity in something different, in order to extend my limits." "Another film which remained as a project is "Dune."" "I gave it all up... the contracts, everything..." "I was totally broke." "Michel Seydoux, who did a good job releasing "El Topo" and "Holy Mountain" in Paris asked me to make a film with him." "I proposed "Dune."" "In fact, I hadn't even read the book." "Someone had simply told me what the book was about." "So we bought the rights for "Dune"." "And reading it, I realized he was right." "We had to do it." "Besides, I just liked the story and needed to support my family." "It was a wonderful failure." "That failure proved to be an ally." "The problem was that the producer was a multimillionaire." "The lesson of this experience is that one should never work with people who don't need to earn money with art because they can abandon a project just like that." "For them it's like an insect bite." "For me, "Dune" was not a failure." "The film was not made, that's all." "What remains is the wonderful preparation." "We were all euphoric." "The film remains what it should be, a mirage between the dunes." "Perhaps inside myself I had the intuition that the film wouldn't be made." "For me the film remains there, and that's okay." "I saw Moebius' drawing for the covers of science-fiction books and I was struck by his "non-scientific" vision of space." "Such artistic imagination." "Then I saw his work in "Blueberry," the comic strip." "I saw that he acted like a film director or a cinematographer." "He had a cinematic vision in his drawings so I thought he'd be perfect for the job." "I came in, and two people were going out." "One of them shouted:" ""It's him, it's Moebius."" "The other person rushed towards me, in a nice way, and said: "So you are Moebius." "I am happy to meet you."" "The person I had before me was AlejandroJodorowsky." "He proposed that I work on his latest film project, "Dune."" "In fact I had just finished Frank Herbert's novel "Dune" three months before, and it came as a shock." "I thought that American cinema, which was influenced by NASA, was creating "flying refrigerators."" "There was absolutely no imagination in the spacecraft." "I wanted a vessel full of color, practically living entities." "Look at this pirate vessel which can hide like a fish." "Giger is the Swiss designer who conceived the "Alien"monster." "Look at the head." "You can see the resemblance to "Alien."" "That's the castle of the Harkonnen baron  who was to be played by Orson Welles." "There were several worlds, and each planet had its own designer and its own music score." "Pink Floyd and Magma were to compose." "Different musicians were to convey... the world of each planet." "Dali was to be the mad emperor of the galaxy." ""Dune" was supposed to be an extraordinary fresco." "Seydoux was thrilled with Alejandro's fire and enthusiasm, the ambition of the project we were all carried away by the delirium." "I was responsible for the preparation of all the actors including Brontis, Alejandro's son." "They had to be warriors, martial arts experts, so I had to prepare them to fight." "I also had a role, that of a musician who was a killer at the same time." "My guitar was like a weapon, and I learned to fight with it." "During this preparation, my emotions would zigzag between great admiration and outraged disapproval." "Alejandro's way of thinking shocked me." "For instance, one day we had to choose the costumes of the Harkonnens." "He covered his eyes with one hand and went through the bookshelf, took a book, by chance it was Titian's paintings, brought it to the table and banged it down, opened it to a page and blindly pointed his finger and said:" ""It's going to be like that!"" "At first it drove me crazy, but then I realized that he was right, we could start from anything." "At any rate, Alejandro had a... how could I say... a belief, or a set of beliefs... that not knowing... that going blindly into something gives a chance... to that mysterious, all-knowing part of ourselves... to express itself." "What we didn't achieve in "Dune" we achieved in comic strips, thanks to the failure of"Dune."" "I began this immense activity in comic strips with millions of readers." "I love comic books." "The "Incal" is the realization of"Dune."" "But we didn't know it at the time." "Maybe Alejandro did because his brain works like 3,000 crazy computers!" "At first I had a dream where I was looking for the inner God." "I saw two pyramids and decided to go inside." "Then I exploded in the light." "When I awoke I was happy and that's how I got the idea for "Incal"  which represents our inner God, the center of our unconscious." "Alejandro was telling me the story and miming at the same time and I was free to interrupt him at any moment." "So, I was creating to my heart's content." "I played the part of the serious man, and he was the madman." "So I was happy to interrupt him and say:" ""Look here, there's no logic in that."" "And he would go in another direction." "He was never out of imagination or madness." "When the first part was completed, we went through the whole story." "Alejandro's well-organized brain was very useful in keeping track of everything." "I made notes of dialogue and the scenes." "It took four to six hours to do a 60-page album." "We did the six volumes like that." "That is extremely unusual because everything was done in one go:" "The story, the scenes, the dialogue." "Working with comic strip designers is a delight." "They love their art." "It is a commercial art, :" "They are paid by the page." "It can be laborious, but they are as delicate as jewelers." "The relationship is different according to their personality." "You have to propose stories they can love." "If you succeed in reaching their world  the collaboration can be wonderful." "Alejandro knows how to keep... his personal obsessions  and be receptive to each designer's sensitivity  at the same time." "That's part of his genius." "He gives them their appropriate fuel in the form of scenarios." "We start with a small thing  and suddenly it starts to take on unexpected proportions of grandeur." "Hurrah for greatness!" "We have to see Man in all his weakness." "We have a brain that can go across the universe, but we can also shit like a baby," "like my professor." "He goes from a state of diarrhea to that of the most sublime thoughts." "It is not autobiographical because this professor is impotent and I have five children." "But on the other hand, parts of him are like me, the splendid and ridiculous side of the philosopher." "Today, I am in a bad mood." "I don't know why, but I am in an awful mood." "I don't want to be anyone's spiritual master." "If that is what people are projecting on me, because of my age, my white hair, that's their problem." "I don't accept it." "I give my lecture of Wednesdays, that's all." "Take me as I am." "Some people think that I am a crook, others the head of a sect." "I begin the lecture with an OM." "We've done Om, which in French means "man," so let's do "woman."" ""Woman."" "It's not Sanskrit." "We are not a sect." "That is the sound needed to induce calm before the lecture begins." "I could say "Coca-Cola" it would be the same thing." "One day I told myself that I came to this world not only to accomplish for myself but also to give something back." "There are already people working with humanitarian or charity organizations, but there is also an enormous emotional catastrophe on the planet." "There is a village, which is hidden in the shadow of a mountain." "Everybody is suffering from the lack of light." "One day the eldest of this village heads for the mountain with a teaspoon in his hands." "The others ask him what he intends to do." "He replies that he is going to move the mountain." ""But you will never succeed!" They cry out." ""No, I will never succeed, but somebody has to start!"" "So, like this man with a teaspoon," "I started to cure the emotional illness of mankind." "I said I would give a lecture per week as long as the participants contributed to paying the rent at the end of each lecture." "Well, they have been paying for 14 years now!" "A seminarist asks another:" ""How can you smoke during the prayers?" "It is strictly forbidden!"" "The other replies:" ""Well, it is easy." "I asked for permission to pray while smoking!"" "In the book I wrote in '83 I spoke of Alejandro as a spiritual father." "He gave me answers no one else could give." "For each question he had an answer." "He encouraged me to write this book despite the fact that I am not a writer." "I didn't find my life particularly interesting." "But I wrote and wrote, and eventually it was published." "From then on I have felt more at ease with myself... with my family, my mother... and my normal agressiveness." "It was like an undigested meal I had to vomit on paper." "Now I really feel better." "The only answer I had for violence was violence, yet humor can be just as effective..." "though I don't have much." "Alejandro taught me that giving up a useless fight is not necessarily self-devaluating." "If you're going to fight, the adversary must be worthwhile." "As he said, when I give karate lessons, and I give 25 lessons a week, I am paid." "So if I get angry in a traffic jam and I start fighting, it is as if I am giving a free lesson." "So it's not worth it!" "Damn, damn, damn, I am no more than shit, and don't tell me I am something." "This cruelty helped me to go further into myself." "I knew I was poetic, but I was afraid of certain strong and strange feelings." "This excess and violence in Alejandro moved me." "Let's do this." "I follow her and she follows me." "We did a very peculiar massage." "15 people were gathered together." "Alejandro's students were learning massage and working on the ego." "We were ready to experiment with adventures of physical and psychological caress." "For awakening!" "So this massage was very special in the sense that everybody there became a member of my family." "You are my grandfather, you are my grandmother, you are my dad, you are my brother, you are my sister!" "We had contact for an hour." "When the contact was over, this strange experience immediately became real." "In the end, everybody was entirely absorbed in their role." "We switched off the lights." "I have to say that Alejandro was absent." "I was alone with these people." "I was panic-stricken at this moment, but that quickly disappeared." "I don't really know what happened, but everybody was moved." "Because in the dark, it was really something else." "It went on and on." "In the end, we were really in a strange mood." "It began to reach proportions no one expected." "So, at the end of this contact," "I disposed the people in the room in the form of a spaceship." "Some people were the hull of the spaceship:" "Others were the engines, others were the sensitive organs." "It was an act of science fiction!" "Then, when everybody was ready, playing the role of the father and the engine of the ship, the mother, and the envelope, the grandmother and the radar, the grandfather and the armament, the brother was a sort of pilot-fish for this spaceship." "So we were all ready after this unbelievable massage!" "Everybody started to believe in their roles." "The spaceship was complete, and I was the passenger  and the captain of it." "I gave the destination, which was the center of the universe, the return to the eternal father." "It started like that, and we took this trip." "All the people who participated in this little psycho-drama, this psycho-situation, benefitted from it." "They helped me by giving me the strength to go through this adventure." "On the other hand, they accompanied me, and would not have experienced such an adventure without me." "It was a real exchange." "When it was all over, Alejandro was called in, and he asked how it went." "We answered that it went okay!" "That shows Alejandro's delicacy." "There is no power-taking." "There is a real sense of giving." "I am sure that when he was in the house next door, he was probably reading a book praying for things to go well." "But Alejandro is not superstitious." "This is "psycho-magic"." "I would call it modern medicine." "It is a continuation of my artistic work, and I don't see why an artist shouldn't be interested in therapy." "With the years, I realized that all my problems, and all our problems, originate from the way we were born." "And the way we were born depends on the relationship between the father and the mother." "And the emotional relationship between the father and the mother depends on the relationship between the grandparents." "The grandparents' actions depend on the great-grandparents' ideas, on religion, economy." "In fact, all our ideas come from our great-grandparents." "I realized that we had a family unconscious, we were a family tree." "I also realized that there were at least 15 people thinking through me, my parents, my uncles and aunts, my grandparents, my great-grandparents, with all the family around..." "I am a thinking family." "My illnesses are created by my family." "My behavior, the way I live, my conception of money, my emotional and sexual relationships, are all created by my family." "Indeed, the psychological and genetic field I come from marks my whole life." "So, if I want to understand myself," "I have to understand my family tree, because I am permanently possessed, as in voodoo, by someone of my family." "How did you find that out?" "Little by little, by reading the Tarot to people." "Not intellectually." "Progressively, by seeking the origin of people's problems," "I suddenly saw the complete family tree in front of me." "In his autobiography, Jung speaks about the family tree." "It is the only tract I found of somebody speaking about the family tree." "I don't know if you know this text." " Shall I read it to you?" " Read it!" ""As I was working on my family tree," "I understood the strange communion of destiny  that linked me to my ancestors." "I had the strong feeling that I was under the influence  of events and problems left incomplete  and unresolved by my parents, my grandparents, and my other ancestors." "It seems to me that often in a family  there is an impersonal karma transmitted from parents to children." "I always thought that I had to answer questions  already asked to my ancestors, or that I had to finish, orjust continue  with problems previously unsolved. "" "Yes, Jung is absolutely right, but he is timid." "He has intuition, he speaks about himself, but he has to apply what he says to all mankind." "We must take our problems in hand and work on them." "Jung usually saw things, but didn't go into them." "I think the reason for this is the lack of the masculine archetype." "There is no father anywhere near him." "Exploring the family tree means engaging in a fierce battle with the monster, like a nightmare, so that the monster can give you the treasure." "The family tree is a real nightmare, where we find sadomasochism everywhere, narcissism everywhere, self-hatred everywhere." "So, with this excrement that is our family tree, we have to produce the treasure gold." "Have you any brothers?" "Yes, you who is filming me!" "Do you have any problems?" "Like everybody." "So you have problems." "Do you want to do it?" "As you are filming me, now I am going to film you!" " With pleasure." " Yes?" "Are you sure you want to do it?" "Do you want to work on an emotional level?" "Yes, why not?" "Working with you on an emotional level will be a total struggle." "There, we will have a man full of defenses, because he is filming somebody else's life and not his own." "Now you are going to be the lead actor in your movie!" "Okay?" "That is my longtime dream." " What is your first name?" " Louis." "Place three cards without turning them over." "I think everybody should do that." "Otherwise we will never understand ourselves." "One thinks one is an individual." "But, even when we cut ties with our family, we carry it, that's the problem." "In 1953, I cut ties with my family, and that remained for all my life." "My mother is dead." "I had a terrible relationship with her." "She had many problems with my father, and she never caressed me." "So I didn't have a mother who touched me." "So when I was 23, I left Chile and threw my address book in the sea." "I never called my father or my mother." "It was over forever." "When I was 50, I had a dream." "I saw my mother lying in a sofa telling me:" ""Alejandro, I'm dying."" "So I told her that, since she was dying, we had to solve all our problems." "She explained why she hadn't touched me, and I explained what I felt." "I told her that, after all, the mother is an important person in one's life." "We spoke and we sealed the wounds..." "When I woke up, I told my wife:" ""Listen, my mother is dying." "I am going to send a letter to my sister who lives with her to be read to my mother."" "So I summarized the dream, spoke about her values and wrote to my sister:" ""I send you this letter." "If it arrives too late, read it in front of mother's grave."" "The letter arrived one day after her death." "It was true that she was dying." "Then I realized that in our unconscious the persons are always alive." "The dead live with us..." "Let's see a tree in action." "Don't think." "Look and let yourself be guided by your unconscious." "Look around and say:" ""This is my father!"" "Moebius." "That's what comes to me." "Your father!" "With or without shoes?" "As he is." "Your mother?" "Madam?" "Are you sure?" "I have chosen." "You are chosen." "Don't be shy." "Do you like the way she is dressed?" "Very much." "Your father and your mother." "I would see the father a bit in retreat, and the mother in front, but not too much." "Okay." "Where do you place yourself?" " Spontaneously, here." " Okay, that's understood." "You had problems when you were born." "You must see clearly the circumstances of your birth." " You mean my physical birth?" " Yes, your physical birth." "I was born prematurely by caesarian operation." "That's the problem at birth." "And the only son." "Move the mother there, so she can have room..." "Who is the mother of your mother?" "You in the audience do it in your head." "That's how we work!" "The lady in the red jacket." "The mother of your mother." "Was there any important brother or sister in your mother's family?" "There were four sisters and a brother that seems important to me as he died in a hunting accident." "How old was he when he died?" "I think he was 16." "That's important." "What seems important to me is that he had the same Christian name as my father." "His name was Gian-Carlo:" "My father's was Charles." "As if by chance!" "Bring the brother and I will immediately explain what this is all about." "For me this is common." "The name implies a series of meanings." "Where is the boy?" "Where do you see him?" "You, with the pink scarf." "He died in a hunting accident." "Who killed him?" "I think that my grandfather provoked the accident." "A bullet by ricochet." "He is the one who killed him." "Unconsciously." "In this family, whom did your mother admire?" " Her father." " The father is very important." "We should put him up on a chair, but we cannot." "He forms a couple with the daughter." "And the mother, where do you place her?" "I would place her on the other side." "Somewhere there, a bit behind, maybe." "Just like that!" "What is the role of the boy?" "I would place him there." "In place of your father?" "He has the same name as your father!" "Strange isn't it?" "That's your mother's family." "Your father's now." "You see we are just beginning to scratch the surface." "In the beginning we don't see anything, so we have to scratch more." "You, if you please." "Your dad's mom." "Please come, madam, and thank you for your participation." "Where are you going to place her?" "Here." "He is very close to his mother." " Quite." " Very important." "And your dad's dad?" "You, with the red shirt." "Do you want to participate?" "Okay, come." "Where are you going to place this father?" "I would place him just behind my father, so he's not seen." "Because, although he has exactly the same name as me," "Louis Mouchet, I never saw him," " I was never told anything about him." " Is he erased?" "Totally erased." "So I would place him behind." "This one is not in the dark." "This one is more present." "My mother used to speak a lot about him." "Is mother in the background?" "No, not at all." "But she worships her father." "And her mother, is she erased?" "Her mother is less present, but not as absent as my father's father." "Sit down to let the audience see." "There is a nucleus that we are going to see." "Right?" "A family secret." "We have here, according to what he insinuated, an accident, a semi-murder, as his own father killed him." "That almost reaches the dimension of Greek tragedy." "Here, he is close to a strong mother, as your mom relates more to her father." "Mother has a masculine archetype injected into her." "Dad has a female archetype in him." "That means that things are crossed." "He bears the woman in him, she bears the man in her." "According to what you said, I am going to interpret, slowly." "You are absolutely right." "My father said it textually:" ""I am the feminine man, and you are the masculine woman."" "He said it in a letter to my mother." "His father said:" ""I am the feminine man and you are the masculine woman."" "It was already said in the family." "This archetypal male provider... provider of subsistence... provider of material means... it looks like you never knew." "Tell us how they die." "How did your father die?" "Throat cancer." "You realize that there is an emotional nucleus hidden here." "That means that your father didn't express his emotions." "I say that at the risk of making an enormous mistake." "They were two." "My uncle died from exactly the same illness." "His brother?" "They were born on the same day." "Was he older or younger?" "Younger." "He imitated his brother." "That means that the two formed a couple." "Because there were no adults to take care of them." "It is a progression." "That's why you are making this film on me." "You are profoundly seeking the paternal archetype." "That's why I tell you that the father is absent." "I say that because you move from the real father  to the spiritual one and the spiritual father  to the mythical one." "They are the symbols of the father." "The Emperor, the Pope, and the Sun are all symbols, which grow in amplitude." "Herein lies an emotional knot which is not expressed." "Because of this, as a man, he'll have problems expressing his emotions." "That's your heritage!" "I'll cope with that!" "How old were you when your father passed away?" "I was 22." "What did you feel at that moment?" "Was everything said?" "Or did things remain unsaid?" "The first thing that comes to me about my father's death?" "Well, he had cancer a long and painful illness, and he suffered a lot." "How old were you when he began to suffer?" "When it was diagnosed I was 21." "Then it lasted for a year." "But I think that his pain began before the illness broke out." "And what is even more striking about the moment of death is that, suddenly I saw an expression of peace on his face that I had never seen before in my life." "All of a sudden there was peace and ecstasy on his face... that I had never seen." " Yes." " It was the moment of death." "Unbelievable." "It is beautiful because it softens the death." "But it is unbelievable to be on this planet and choose a father that never showed a peaceful face in all your life." "You have to see him dead to understand that he is in peace." "For him, life was..." "It was enormous suffering." "Living is suffering." "He is the son of a father who transmits to him that life is great suffering." "That's the first thing to be clarified." "What was your father's profession?" "His vocation was a poet." "So he was an artist." "That's why you chose Moebius." "But poets don't make a lot of money." "To live, he had a private school." "He was a teacher and had his own school equivalent to the beginning of college level." "For children?" "Not young children." "Teenagers." "And he taught literature?" "He managed the school and taught literature and Latin." "But above all he wanted to be a poet?" "He is a poet." "His work exists." "Do you like his work?" "Was he a good poet?" "Huh..." "In the beginning, I had trouble liking it." "I couldn't read it like poems of Baudelaire or Rimbaud." "I had tremendous difficulty in the beginning." "Why was it so difficult?" "Because of all this." "Because he didn't communicate with you." "He was like a lone traveler, in poetry." "Yes, that might be the explanation." "I had the feeling that in his poetry lies what he couldn't communicate to me." "And, as a result, I didn't want to love his poetic work." "Did you go to his school?" "I went to do my homework, after school." "So he was not with you." "No, he wasn't with me." "He didn't have an affectionate relationship with me." " Being an only child..." " Except that from time to time..." "As the only child, strange, isn't it?" " That's strange." " Wait." "Wait." " That's strange." " Often..." "It could be worse." "Often the only relationship he had with me was giving lessons or checking my homework." "Nothing affective." "Or, when he was completely drunk, we would go to the cafes to fool around." "Alcohol!" "He was closed." "He couldn't express his emotions." "Take your father by the hands and speak to him." "Ask him what was missing." "Face him." "What was missing?" "Speak to him directly!" "To accomplish totally..." "No, no, speak to him, he's your father." "I would say." "To accomplish totally your poetic work." "And, speaking of myself, to love me totally, to express the love that I'm sure you did feel for me deep inside." "I couldn't speak to you directly, that's why I used poetry." "So I will read your poetry and try to understand your message." " Didn't you read his poetry?" " Yes, but poetry is mysterious." "Maybe I didn't understand his message." "You have to read my poetry as being addressed to you." "Okay." "Wait!" "Wait!" "No, no, you must protest." "If I were you, I wouldn't accept that." "But I don't want to protest," "I accept what you are telling me." "I have to help you." "I am speaking to the father." "I know, but I have to help you." "In this case poetry is his rival, because his father gives all his passion to poetry, not to him." "Wait, wait, wait." "You risk finding yourself with an alien woman who is going to give all her love to singing, not to you, and you are going to love her because she is totally dedicated to her art." "And you will follow her, like you followed your father, who was dedicated to his art." "Art is the rival for you." "I am doing something extremely magical for you." "You followed me with my work, but suddenly I come out of the work and I am facing you." " That's revolutionary in your life." " That's right." "This is the first time that the father, the artist, the poet is facing you and cares about you." "I do not care about myself." "I am not mimicking for the camera." "You are important." "Ask your father to care about you, besides poetry." "When will somebody care about you?" "How long are you going to be a public person?" "When are you going to be yourself?" "When will somebody look at you as a human being?" "What I want to say to my father is:" "Why did you need poetry?" "Why didn't you talk to me directly?" "A form of autism." "By talking directly to me," "I think you could have overcome that." "Express yourself." "Now is the time!" "I am sorry." "Regrets are useless." "Now he begins to express himself!" "Regrets are of no use." "That's what he never did!" "I would take a book of my father's and burn it." "Keeping one, of course." "But I would take one copy and burn it." "That's what I'd do as a psycho-magic act." "Because that is my rival, that's enough!" "This way I'll be able to release my anger." "In all this lies a quest for love." "We ask the father why, what was missing and when we join the father, we find that it is a need for love." "All our anger against our family lies in misplaced and unsatisfied love." "But when we reach this state where we can express ourselves and communicate, everything vanishes." "The tree couldn't bear fruit because the productive passage was clogged." "Now the tree can grow." "There is no prejudice no childishness." "We all become mature, artists accomplish themselves, money comes, and the fear of money vanishes." "Thank you!"