"THE KNIGHT AND THE FAKIR Part 1:" "Writing is dangerous" "What I liked most about Floris, was that I had something to do." "That I could do some filming." "Of course my aims were much higher." "I was thinking of Anton Wachter, the novel character by Vestdijk." "Or Multatuli, Couperus or whoever." "I was certainly not thinking about Floris." "But I thought that's available, and other things are not." "So I'll just do it." "And you say: "Let's go." "It's time we got to the castle."" "Again, guys." "Action!" "I thought I was a serious candidate for the job because of the navy movie that I made when I was with the Marine Corps." "In 1965, they wanted a 20 minute documentary about their Corps because of their 300th anniversary." "That was a movie that I shot..." "It was only 20 minutes, but I had just seen James Bond movies." "So I shot it in a style of suspense and adventure." "The guys look really good and they're tough guys." "The National Broadcasting Corporation liked that." "They thought if he can do fight scenes with marines he might also be able to shoot adventures with two guys on a horse." "The other day I was in a department store and I saw those videos." "I'd seen them before." "I don't do anything about it." "I just notice it and I think 'not bad'." "So I say to this lady:" ""That was me."" "And she says to me: "Sindala!" "Childhood memories!"" "That was very nice." "The National Broadcasting Corporation asked me to write a series." "I thought I'd set it around 1500." "You can have all kinds of interesting things, such as gunpowder." "And you can add people from foreign countries." "So I picked a fakir because they can do strange things like lie on beds of nails or fast or climb ropes." "Quite fun." "They asked me to audition for the part of Sindala for the upcoming series Floris and the Fakir." "Originally, it was called Floris and the Fakir." "It had to have something Indian or Middle European or something." "And he embodied all that." "One of the things he asked was "Can you do an imitation of a cat?"" "He's got him." "A friend of mine taught Dutch at the academy of dramatic art." "I asked him if he had a Germanic type." "He said he did but he graduated last year and he now works with the Noorder Compagnie in Friesland." "We were playing for schools there and we happened to walk into each other." "He saw what we were doing and said you might be able to get a Robin Hood type role for television." "I said that that was fun." "When I looked at his hands, I saw that he has strong, slightly crooked sausage fingers." "I thought they can hold a sword." "And when he walked away, I saw that he has short, crooked legs." "Like a cowboy." "So that was even better." "He can hold a sword and he can ride a horse." "What more can you ask for a Dutch, historical series?" "I believe I auditioned with Paul." "That went alright and then Carol van Herwijnen who was also tested for the role he was who they wanted." "And then it turned out he couldn't commit for that long." "So Gerard said "Let's go back to Rutger Hauer"." "At least he's the Floris type." "So that's what we did." "I was their second choice." "But I didn't care." "I was happy to do it." "And that changed my life." "Afterwards you have to say we made the best choice possible." "That's how it looks now." "You can feel when something will be good." "Nobody needs to tell you that." "I can still see Rutger arrive at the set." "You could see right away that he'll be Floris." "Do you ever write your name?" "That's too hard for you." "Better study the alphabet first." "Writing is dangerous." "God exists." "Especially for script writers." "This is like a present when you're searching, with the director for locations that fit what you wrote." "We found this trapdoor and used it in the episode called The Copper Dog." "What did you find out?" "The Copper Dog's coming." "The Copper Dog?" "1, 2, go!" "Go, 1, 2..." "Don't you like it?" "Yes, but I have to take another bite." "Swallow it." "But can you talk while you eat?" "Try that." "That's much more fun." "There was no target audience, like these days." "The only audience we were thinking of was to reach as many people as possible." "Don't say "This series is for children between 4 and 9"." "I wanted to make a series that children watch, but that the parents like too." "They can have the child in their lap and watch something together." "You can't make a medieval series without any jesters." "This is a fool's bauble, but a special one." "You can joke with it, but you can also steal food with it." "Chicken again?" "We've had chicken for five days." "Would you prefer rabbit?" "Yes." "Don't you want anything?" "He's fasting." "What good does that do?" "He's gathering mental powers." "Mental powers?" "I don't believe in them." "I believe in strong arms." "Wait and see." "They were two extremes and that was interesting." "Paul used what they contributed as people." "Jos was introverted by nature, so he was a bit hard to read." "And Rutger was all about action all day long." "In the morning, he'd be checking the horses, so to speak." "The main character is Floris, a young man who comes home after sailing under the Portuguese for years." "The fakir is Floris' friend." "He knows lots of fakir tricks." "He's a magician, an alchemist, a smart guy." "Did you feel your character had more substance than Floris?" "If you have to play a not too bright character, you have to work for it." "And playing the smart guy also doesn't come automatically." "Jos was a very mysterious and introverted person." "He was hard to fathom." "We very much had our own lives." "We had a working relationship." "You only mentioned money and blood." "They must be usurers." "Are you crazy?" "They're doctors." "Doctors?" "What's the difference between a doctor and a usurer?" "I don't really know." "An actor can't lie to the camera, with their body or their mind." "Rutger became more prominent in the series than I'd made him on paper." "What an ending when he enters that room and he stands there leaning with the sword in his hand." "And you can see he's grown, compared to the beginning." "Talent, karma, charisma, probably." "The great charisma that Rutger's had all these years in movies." "The movies he made with me, Blade runner and others, had his charisma in them." "You couldn't avoid it, also as a director." "You had to let that happen." "And let him develop into the hero he is in Soldier of Orange, for instance." "I think to myself that I've been very lucky." "The way things worked out." "Because I wouldn't have made it without Paul." "I was way too loose-limbed." "He applied structure and strictness." "And a bit of heroism." "He taught me not to move too much and I was a young dog, really." "THE KNIGHT AND THE FAKIR Part 2:" "Come, let's go!" "Floris was the best time of my television career." "And the same applies to my colleagues whom I still see often." "We'd do it all over again, today, as friends." "It's a lot of fun that what you like to do, is appreciated by people." "That the streets were empty." "For half an hour, on Sunday evening." "The next day you'd see all these boys with sticks." "And with towels over their shoulders and wearing coats." "That was great fun." "It was innovative." "In those days, it was an innovative series for young people." "It was the first production with a lot of people." "The stunt team and lots of extras." "And it wasn't all that well organised." "I had to pick a camera man and I was thinking of Peter Alsemgeest but, for political reasons maybe, Ton Buné was suggested." "They said his style was more relaxed and he uses a handheld." "They probably thought it would be cheap and fast." "Max Appelboom didn't like that the production was taking too long." "He asked me to make sure Paul would hurry up a bit." "At the end, we were on a terrain like this with a big tent that housed make-up, costumes, horses..." "We had to eat there and everything, because there was no more money." "It was also caused by the sound." "It's set in the Middle Ages." "But we'd hear mopeds, trains and agricultural machines in the background." "We once calculated that, over the entire production time we spent six weeks waiting," "I'm still surprised that they kept me after a couple of weeks." "Because we went much slower than everybody expected." "The budget was initially half a million guilders." "But it turned out to be 2 million." "So that's 300% over budget." "I'm hungry!" "I'm hungry!" "The Frisians thought that I portrayed Big Pier, their national hero a bit too... sharply." "It was a bit of a caricature of Big Pier." "Make-up took over an hour for me." "The beard was pasted on bit by bit." "I had a normal job, so I couldn't afford to grow a beard." "I had signed a contract with Max Appelboom for 17 shooting days." "That was important because I was the deputy director of a record company." "But it was so much fun and the character became interesting so it turned out to be 73 shooting days." "We did it in this paddock." "There's a ditch there." "There was more water in it than these days." "That's where we shot the famous scene with the boat that was being lifted." "You see me lift the boat on my own." "But that was a trick, of course." "There were ten men at the back to hold it." "And the camera in between and me." "Alone with the boat." "It was a very heavy boat, of course." "I was strong back then, but not strong enough to lift and throw that boat." "Improvisation has to take place within the framework that I've defined." "Countess." "Welcome, sir Floris." "He comes in and knocks over my embroidery." "He wasn't supposed to do that." "But Paul said: "That's fun." "Let's use it."" "Paul Verhoeven wants that." "He wants to see you do something." "When Paul Verhoeven knows he can trust you when he knows you can do it, he gives you free reign." "When I see someone do something during a rehearsal or during the third take something different..." "I'll always go to them and say keep that, use it, don't get rid of it." "This jump and splash were performed by the stunt team that does all the dangerous work, such as jumping dragging changing horses..." "with fall..." "These guys were good with their bodies." "They were prepared to take certain risks." "Most of them were bouncers in Amsterdam, at night." "Back then, we had to fight and hit in the old fashion." "Bang." "Crack." "Bang." "Boom." "The strongest one won and the other one went to sleep." "Run!" "I wanted to make the series as Dutch as possible with lots of fields and cows and the most typically Dutch thing." "I wanted a mill." "If you add a mill, you have to do something with it." "So I thought we'd attach the scoundrels to the sail arms, at the end." "The idea came from us, because it was set in the Middle Ages." "What can you think of to punish people?" "Without chopping off any heads or hands." "They could come off the mill later, but they had still been disgraced." "I'll get you for this." "Maybe next time." "Let's go!" "For that stunt, you have to trust the people who check it." "You can't check it yourself." "A local carpenter... because you have to be able to trust him and when he says, through his chewing tobacco..." ""You can hang on that." "It's alright."" "And then you do it." "And when you go up, it feels very slow but when you come down, it's as if you're on your way to the Chinese." "They insisted we were insured." "And we were, but not for a stunt like this one." "That amounted to 2 million guilders." "And it could only be insured with Lloyd's." "And this man from Lloyd's came and the boys were already hanging." "...and he said: "You're insured from 1:30 to 2 PM, not a minute more"." "I started fencing when I was around 14." "And horse riding too, so they were things I really liked." "It just was a lot of fun." "Playing knights." "Yes, absolutely." "On the spur of the moment, I had to get on a horse." "So I jumped straight into the saddle." "I was very proud of that" "And I had a fight scene with two swords." "I liked that too." "I found that really interesting." "So Rutger did most of his stunts himself?" "That wasn't allowed." "There was a big problem with that." "The sword fighting and the long distance riding... he did that, yes." "And he dived into 2 meters of water at Doornenburg Castle." "In The Black Bullets, he dives into the moat of Doornenburg Castle." "Which was not allowed." "Diving off a high diving board was normal for me." "Also in shallow water, where you'd have to do a flat dive." "The stuntman would just jump, you know." "I thought I could make it more fun." "Rutger wanted to dive." "So I said "that's not possible"." "But Rutger had made a deal with Ton Buné." "He said: "Don't tell anyone, but when we shoot the first take, I'll dive." "I said: "You're kidding." And he said: "No, I'll do it."" "He said: "Make sure it's a good shot." "I'll dive."" "He said: "Let the camera roll." And he did a great dive into the moat." "And I think there was about a metre of water in it." "When I said "Action" for take 1, he dived in to my big surprise." "He absolutely wanted to be the hero." "And he was right." "It looked much better than jumping." "Jumping looked dicky." "The first person jumps." "The person he's chasing, jumps." "It really looks..." "like this." "If you do something better than the stuntmen, they'll admit it was good." "And then you become part of them." "We were the stunt guys." "What are we supposed to do?" "Acting's his work and we do the stunts." "For me, stunts were part of the role." "It was about horse riding, sword fighting, jumping and dancing." "That was it for me." "The lines were short and a bit stiff." "Clumsy." "Let's go on." "We're going." "Let's go on." "I'd have a hard time if the lines weren't good or were too simple." "Sometimes I just couldn't say them right." "We have to go!" "All those groups!" "The Cinecentrum group, who provided the cameras and the sound." "And the group of Hammy de Beukelaer and the group of the actors and the group that came from nowhere, like me." "They all became one family, sitting at one table." "It was the most communist experience I've ever had." "Everybody worked with everybody and there were no classes." "The painting's finished in so far as it's finished." "But it's now in a state in which I dare show it to you." "THE KNIGHT AND THE FAKIR Part 3:" "Over the top" "To me, Floris was an excursion." "As a manner of speech, because it was a very professional affair, also for me." "You're an artist or you're not." "But my soul was in painting." "The part of Sindala was so complete that that mission was accomplished." "I think you could say that." "If Paul Verhoeven would call and offer me a part worth millions I could use that for an exhibition." "Then I'd make a new excursion into acting." "Get him!" "In hindsight, I'm happy that it went this way." "I thought it was great to play in Floris." "It taught me things I can also use in this life." "The most noticeable building in Hernen is an old little castle that has been beautifully restored and is open to the public." "The swans of Doornenburg Castle located where the rivers Waal and Rhine split, near Nijmegen." "This is the -now empty- court from Floris." "This is the medieval side." "Gelderland has such great castles." "We went through the whole country and saw everything, but it was so clear it had to be shot there." "It was based on the fact that there was enough landscape and trees foresty areas, water." "Gelderland had most of those things." "It takes relatively long before women play a role in the series." "Why was that?" "That was just a mistake." "A serious error that I made." "Luckily, two women did end up in the show." "Ada and her lady's-maid." "A tournament." "He calls that a party." "Due to the talent of the actresses I realised later that I'd made a mistake." "I should have used those women earlier and more often." "It's a long time ago." "30 years is long." "I know that Max Appelboom was going to do that independent production and that I was supposed to meet the director." "And that Paul hired me on the spot." "He probably immediately thought I was the right type." "The best isn't good enough for you." "Feel this." "How soft." "Pure down." "Good, isn't it?" "Soft, yes." "And here... these chairs." "Try it." "Well?" "Lovely." "Can you sing us a bit?" "Floris has been fighting all day so he's very tired." "And then his hand happens to fall against my hand and Ada thinks..." "But he has fallen asleep." "In those days boys and girls didn't get together as freely." "Holding hands was quite something." "He's asleep." "He's asleep?" "He's asleep!" "What?" "He's asleep." "Sexuality in these series..." "Captain Rob, Dick Bos all those cartoon style things and Robin Hood most of all." "He has nothing in his pants." "That's not possible." "That's for a very different series." "The same applied to Floris." "It was more a first love when you're eight years old." "Very interesting, but no real itch." "I believe I only had one episode with women." "Diana Dobbelman and Ida Bons." "That was about it." "It was a men's movie." "It was an action movie." "There's not really a romantic storyline." "Surrender." "Have mercy." "Your Lordships." "I beg you." "Have mercy upon a poor robber." "What a coward." "Promise you'll never do it again." "Never again." "We were fairly liberated for the Middle Ages." "Teaching those men a lesson in men's clothing." "Paul Verhoeven was interested in physical violence." "And that was all there was in the Middle Ages." "He loved to show that." "I always like violence." "Better be clear about it again." "I don't understand what's so despicable about violence." "I don't understand why people have such a problem with it." "The world's full of violence." "Paul was and turned out to be a great director." "He was a mathematician." "He knew exactly what he wanted." "He was not so much an actor's director." "He didn't discuss the character with you." "For him, technique was most important." "I though the series was fairly clean." "I remember I had a very big sword." "I never hit anybody with it." "After we had made three episodes, I got a call from a well-known journalist." "He asked me what I thought about the violence in the series." "I said "Which violence?" "It's for children." "There is no violence."" "He said he found it very violent." "I asked him if his grandma ever talked him to sleep." "About the wolf and the seven young kids." "The belly's cut open and little goats come out and all that stuff." "That's violent." "Nice and sharp." "Put him in." "It's hard to believe that that's all possible." "In those days, it was really new." "Someone might get a thumb screw put on maybe." "But it was always quickly put into perspective." "So children would think "Oh, alright"." "What you also see in the Walt Disney movie." "Where you think the children won't be able to sleep." "But soon after it's solved." "And they're over it." "Open it." "What?" "Is he dead?" "He's just sleeping." "I was raised with grisliness." "And the greatness of imagination is much more radical in all its forms than this whining that it's too grisly for some people." "It's the only place where you can do it." "You don't have to love it." "That's another matter." "The fighting's quite sweet." "Nothing bad happens to the people." "It's all..." "It's not very realistic." "It's incredibly over the top." "It's a cartoon." "Oldenstein!" "Oldenstein!" "Violence is part of life." "And I thought it could also be present in this series, to a degree." "I really enjoyed tying Reinbout to the wheel." "Where is the seal?" "That was the worst bit, I think." "People minded that the most." "That he was being stretched." "Where is the seal?" "It's clearly exaggerated and done in an over the top way." "So it's not realistic, but it shows that they're mean." "That they're mean bastards who need to be punished badly by Floris." "There are plans for a new Floris in the Netherlands." "Would you be prepared to play the part of the old Floris?" "If there's any sword fighting going on, I'll enjoy it." "I like to use a sword." "It would be great and nice to work with Rutger again." "But I don't know." "I haven't heard anything about it." "They haven't asked me yet." "If you really want to make Floris in high quality and with a new cast, of course..." "maybe Rutger can play Floris' father then you'd need a lot more money." "You'd have to compare it to Fanfan la Tulipe or The Three Musketeers or something similar." "You'd have to think along those lines." "You're not talking 5 million dollars, but 50 million dollars." "It's easy to say you want to do another Blade Runner or Hitcher or Ladyhawke or Floris, because you know what it is." "But it's hard to make." "Let them do it."