"You get a sense of the scale and ambition of the Church of Scientology from the footage of their galas." "They look more like a Hollywood awards show than anything recognizably spiritual." "A religion created by a sci-fl writer and now run by a mysterious and unapproachable leader" "whose disciples include top Hollywood actors." "For years my dream was that I might be the first journalist to see another more positive side of the church." "Their commercials promise enlightenment using techniques that combine spirituality and science." "With the ultimate aim of a planet free from insanity, crime and war." "The videos boast of the church's global reach and followers, they say, are in the millions." "Watching their promotional films, I dreamed of experiencing their practices first-hand." "I made repeated requests to be allowed inside but my approaches were all turned down." "Gradually I realised they were never going to let me in." "But inspired by their religious film-making" "I began thinking of another way inside that was still true to the spirit of Scientology." "I've been in touch with one of the most prominent ex-members of Scientology." "His name is Marty Rathbun and my hope is that he can help me realise this idea I have." "For many years he was one of the most senior figures in the whole church." "Their photos show him in uniform next to David Miscavige, the church leader." "And then in 2004 he left and started giving interviews about the church and his role within it." "I was basically Mr Fix-It for Scientology for a number of... well, a couple of decades, frankly." "I mean, I was..." "Wherever there was a fire, I was out there to put it out." "Do you need a push?" "Maybe." "The church now regards him as deeply untrustworthy." "Oh, this Louis, he's a yoga master." "But for more than twenty years he was the consummate insider..." "It feels pretty secure." "And he still believes in aspects of Scientology." "You want to just get some B roll?" "Yeah." "Have you driven in LA before, Louis?" "Er, I've been living in LA for the last year." "Get out of town." "Yeah." "Where do you live?" "North Hobart." "Very close to the Celebrity Centre." "I'll be darned." "And we've flown him in from Texas where he now lives and brought him back to Scientology's birthplace and his old home, Los Angeles." "I've got my written response from the church." "Oh, really?" "I wanted to mention that." "Okay." "And what they mention is that Mr Theroux had been in direct communication with and had interviewed bitter anti-scientologist" "Marty Rathbun." "Is that what poisoned them against our production?" "Is that what closed the door to us do you think?" "Or would they never have taken part?" "You can't film me." " Okay." " We're not filming you." "You are, you have the camera in my face." "Turn the camera that way." "So what are you doing the documentary about?" "It's about the Church of Scientology." "Oh." "You probably should interview her." "Well, maybe we will, but we should probably finish what we were..." "Yeah." "We'll finish what we're doing." "I am an actress and " "Well, we are in LA." "Yeah." "Well, no, I mean I've done over 45 films..." " Sure." "In French and Spanish and a lot of things." "Okay, well, my name is Paz." "Paz." " How do you spell that?" " Paz De La Huerte?" "Yes." "That's great." "Thank you so much." "They sent her over." "The church?" "Don't you think?" "No, they're not that sophisticated." "Honey trap." "They're not that sophisticated." "You would have done that in your day." "No, I wouldn't have done that in my day." "The founder of Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard was a writer of pulp fiction and in 1950 he published a self-help book called Dianetics." "It became the basis for an entire religion teaching that we are all immortal spirits called Thetans, who live multiple lifetimes." "Using Scientology processes we can become enlightened remember past lives and carry all our present day memories into future lifetimes." "Over the years Hubbard won thousands of converts." "Hello" "My name is David Miscavige and I'm very happy that you could all make it to this important briefing this evening." "And then in 1986 there was a gathering of scientologists at the Hollywood Palladium and it was announced that Hubbard had died." "The body he had used to facilitate his existence in this messed universe had ceased to be useful." "And in fact had become an impediment to the work he now must do outside of its confines." "The announcement was made in this famous footage by a young man in his twenties called David Miscavige" "and he has run Scientology ever since and done so, according to his critics in an increasingly unpredictable and volatile fashion." "Joining us live tonight is David Miscavige whose formal title is Chairman of the Board of the Religious Technology Centre." "The organization which manages Dianetics and Scientology." "Mr Miscavige took over as the head of Scientology in 1987 following the death of the church's founder, L. Ron Hubbard." "In 1992 he spoke to Ted Koppel the host of Nightline." "It was an unusually revealing encounter and to date, his only TV interview." "So we've got actors coming in to be David Miscavige and for me the idea really is to kind of recreate..." "You know we can't get the real Miscavige but we can create our own Miscavige using lines from that rare Ted Koppel interview to help Marty to cast him." "I'm gonna lean heavily on Marty." "I'm conscious it's his version and it's seen in hindsight after an acrimonious split from the church." " Okay." " Hi, guys." "Hi Chris." "How you doing?" "Hi, my name's Chris Gehrt." "Shall I..." "I mean should I sit in, what do you think?" "Shall I do a Koppel voice?" " No." " No." "It's cheesy." " It's up to you, Louis, whatever you..." " Yeah, I'll just do..." "I'd like to begin, Mr Miscavige, with I guess the kind of broad question perhaps folks at home may be asking themselves right now." "Perhaps folks at home might be asking themselves right now but let me be the guinea pig for a moment." "Mmm." "See if you can explain to me why I would want to be a scientologist." "Because you care about yourself and life itself..." "Because you care about - it's - your life." "Wait, hold on." "Yourself and life itself." "Yeah, yeah." "Scientology." "The word means study of life, study of knowledge." "Er... and that's what it is." "It takes up all areas of life itself." "Things that are integral and maxims." "They're related to life and very existence." "Let me give you an example, it's better if I take that because it's such a broad-ranging subject." "It's better if I take that because it covers such a broad range of subjects." "That's the area of communication." "Um, being able to communicate with the world around you and everyone here." "Good, good, good." "I just, I want it feel, um, as real as possible but I also want to get Marty back into the headspace of where he was when he was inside the church." "And we're using this rare bit of footage because he was there in the studio at Miscavige's side when it was recorded." "Thank you so much." "Thank you." "That's not Miscavige." "I'm just..." "I'm serious, you know." "All these guys that you'd like, they're no good." "Well, no, but he actually..." "But this is not a minor game we're playing here." "Every man woman and child." "Their immortal future depends on us succeeding." "This is the attitude." "This is what you're missing." "You've got to have that intensity." "Okay?" "Because this is not some minor game." "I thought he had that." "This is dying." "Not just dying this lifetime." "It's dying and dying and dying and dying and being a smouldering ember that floats through space." "Hurtling through space." "Literally that?" "It's literally that if we don't succeed." "Is that something he would say?" "Absolutely, it's right in the policy letters in keeping Scientology working." "We'd rather have you dead than incapable." "That's the training attitude." "That was your mind-set." "Yeah." "For 27 years." "Well, for 22 years." "First 5 years I was pretty laid back." "Scary, huh?" "Makes you wonder what I'm capable of, right?" "Little bit." "Yeah." "I'll tell you what, let's stick with me, okay?" "So far in life I haven't had a whole lot of trouble communicating." "Now see if you can communicate to me what it is that you're going to be able to do for me that makes me a better communicator." "Well, number one, I would never try to talk you into that Scientology is for you." "You see, that's the funny thing about this as if I'm now going to give a sales pitch to you on Scientology." " So let's look at it this way." " See that edge... he's got that down." "He's pissed." "And... but he's not overtly showing it." "But he's combatting with me." "If you want me - if you want to see something else throw any direction at me and I'll just give you another." "Get up and get in my face and put your finger in my chest and let me know that my problem is that I buy my own bullshit." " Okay." " Okay, go ahead." "Who are you to come in here and tell me that what I stand for and what I have learned..." "what I have learned is the right way." "Look, you people are programmed and sold." "Listen to me, you slimy little cocksucker." "You fuck up one more time, I will rip your fucking face off." "You got that?" "Get with me, motherfucker." "Get personal." "Put... dress the guy down." "I don't want you just to agree with me." "Call him a four-eyed son of a bitch cocksucker." "You're a four-eyed son of a bitch." "You cocksucker." "I mean, you had no idea what you were doing from the beginning and I knew that." "Louder." "You had no idea what you were doing from the beginning and I knew that." "Shove him against the wall." "Son of bitch, you listen to me." "This is really good." "Okay." "You're going to fucking do what I tell you next time and you're going to actually listen to me." "Louis, this is really good." " From the start." " Okay, out." "Okay." "You're a cook-sucking loser." "You're a piece of shit." "I'm telling you what you're worth." "I'm telling you what you've been doing with your life." "Don't look away." "He's got it, he's got it." "This is David Miscavige, right here." "Where were you getting that from?" "I tap into anger very easily." "And righteousness." "Yeah." "That's exactly what it is." "It's a righteous anger." "That was like being there." "Yeah." "Thank you so much, thanks again." "Take care." "Okay, cheers." "Um, I'm aware that we're going to the violence quite quickly and to this sort of, the negative characterization." "But I don't know if we're gonna get the sense of why for 22 years you were working hand-in-glove in a devoted fashion with that guy." "Well, as you said, it was kind of... you thought it was kind of nice having your face ripped off up against the wall." "Yeah, but that was play acting." "I know, so what's the difference?" "The orthodoxy in the Scientology religion so that it forever remains faithful..." "Good." "He's indignant but he's also trying to make his case to an impartial person, like a judge, right?" " Okay." "Yeah." "Okay, shall we go?" "Go." "I am, and since 1987 have been the Chairman of the Board of Religious Technology Centre." "A section 501 tax exempt non-profit religious corporation whose sole purpose is to maintain the orthodoxy of the Scientology religion." "I mean, I would take it down a notch." "Okay." " Because I think that went a little too conversational." "Yeah." "Most scientologists would never meet David Miscavige." "They have normal jobs." "They might volunteer in the church's bookshops, which they call Orgs." "They don't wear uniforms, and in LA many of them are actors." "I grew in Boston." "Small-town boy with big-town dreams." "So I decided, you know, to just, like, take the leap to Hollywood and become an actor." "I didn't really have, like, a plan in mind per Se." "I just kind of came here and just hoped that I would you know, find my way in the business." "So I picked up a copy of Backstage newspaper which is the trade newspaper that actors subscribe to that lists all the different auditions in town and all the different classes." "And there's a huge ad - how to break into the industry teaching you all the ins and outs of how to make it in Hollywood." "So I took the bus up to the Celebrity Centre and I walk in and we went into their theatre room to watch their orientation film." "Right this instant, you are at the threshold of your next trillion years." "You will live it in shivering agonized darkness." "Or you will live it triumphantly in the light." "The choice is yours." "That's the one where he says" "'If at the end of this, you're not convinced that this is for you you're free to walk away.'" "It would be stupid but you can do it." "You can also dive off a bridge or blow your brains out." "Blow your brains out, yeah." "That is your choice." "When you're a new actor and you come to somewhere like the Celebrity Centre and they're telling you" "'We can help make you someone like the new Tom Cruise' you know, you're like 'Oh wow." "That's what I want.'" "You know, they just tell you, you know, it's a course away." "Your happiness is a course away." "If I see someone on the street, at the bus stop you'd go up to them and just try to be their friend." "Give them one of these?" "Give them one of these booklets and say, hey check out my church." "And if I get you to sign up for services it helps me because I get a 10% commission on whatever you buy." "They say it brainwashes people." "It is, it's mind numbing." "No, no, no, no, no I'm doing the..." "They say it brainwashes people." "Do I look like I'm brainwashed to you?" "I'm your neighbour." "I'm your best friend." "Scientology is an applied religious philosophy." "It's not a religion you just sit down and pray at an altar about." "This is something that you actually apply every single day in your life." "Tools to improve yourself." " Pass them here." " Oh my God, they're really heavy." "There's apparently 1 million spoken and transcribed L. Ron Hubbard words in all these books." "But you paid for all of them." "I paid for all of them." "How much did you pay for all your materials?" "For all the book course materials?" "Everything, just for the whole..." "the services, books, everything." "Everything?" "Fifty grand." "About fifty thousand dollars." "Fifty thousand dollars." "This is a simple, er, ohmmeter." "And there is a very slight amount of electricity actually passing through your body although it's imperceptible." "When I address thought that has, er, some trauma connected with it or some anxiety connected with it" "I get a particular type of read." "It's a device that measures thought." "Alright, is there a particular area of your life that, erm... fixates your attention or you feel is a..." "That, there." " Did you get one?" " Yeah." "Can I answer?" "Please." "I'm thinking about a time when I was about 11 or 12." "The most basic practice in Scientology is auditing." "It's a form of counseling using a primitive lie detector called an E-meter." "Okay." "So, earlier similar problems." "Basically you talk about memories and traumas called engrams until they no longer register on the machine." "Interesting." "Your needle's floating." "Which is good, right?" "That means I've cleared something." "I dunno, do you feel like you've kind of realised something?" "I feel like I've made a connection, yeah." "Yeah, yeah." "That's basically what a session is." "So, how does this relate to Scientology and this idea of being clear?" "Okay." "You desensitize a lot of these things like this little thing that gave you a little bit of angst." "I mean, there's tones of things that any given individual has like that." "Got it." "That is clear, basically." "Though it's a religion, scientologists don't worship a god." "Instead, what they offer is a highly detailed step-by-step program of classes and courses." "each with a price tag and all of it laid out in an extremely complex looking diagram." "They call the teachings religious technology or tech." "As you advance up the bridge you deal with engrams from past lifetimes." "At the very top are the OT levels." "OT stands for Operating Thetan and the possibility of extra-sensory abilities." "The most dedicated believers can join Scientology's clergy the Sea Org." "You can see them in church photos, styled like a navy." "Their glossy recruitment posters depict them as being like warrior monks." "They sign billion-year contracts committing all their future lifetimes to saving Earth from ruin,." "And while there may be as many as 25,000 scientologists in the U.S." "only a fraction has signed up as members of the Sea Org." "And it's within the Sea Org that the most controversial practices are alleged to have taken place." "We're going down to a little town called Hemet and close by Hemet is the headquarters of Scientology - a legendary location." "And we're going there with Marc Headley who worked and lived there for fifteen years from 1990 to 2005 when he 'blew', which he means he left in an unauthorized fashion." "He later sued the church for keeping him against his will but he lost the case." "And, like Marty, he's viewed by the church as an embittered and a liar." "You know, and you know we've been filming with Marty Rathbun?" "Yes, I was aware of that, yes." "And you know him, don't you?" "Yes, I do." "Basically, it's where David Miscavige mainly works." "It's where he runs Scientology from." "And it's where allegedly in the years running up to 2005 there was a reign of terror." "There was actually a time in the mid-1990s when I was being accused of myself being violent with somebody of one of my own crew." "And I was being interrogated on an E-meter about this incident and Marty was actually standing behind the girl that was doing the interrogation in the little auditing room with us." "And, um, and it just kept going on and on and she'd say 'Did you do this?" "' I said 'No, I didn't do that.'" "'And did you do this?" "' 'No, I didn't do that.'" "And then Marty actually just said 'Listen, let's just take a break for a second.'" "And he cold-cocked me." "Just boom." "And he's a big guy, he's much bigger than I am." "He punched you?" "He punched me square in jaw out of nowhere, I wasn't expecting it, it was just boom." "And then he goes 'Good, now go back in there and tell her what she wants to hear.'" "This is it." "Yeah, this is it." "We're there." "This building up on the right here that is the cinematography studio." "It's called the cine-castle." "So they make promotional videos for Scientology in there?" "Films and videos." "It looks like you could walk quite close." "If we did, they'd know." "I mean, they know we're here right now." "There's cameras right there." "We have their attention." "No doubt, one hundred per cent." "So I'm going to take my lead from you, Marc." "You think this is a good place to stop or maybe not... are you okay?" "I'm fine." "You just went..." "Is it stress or are you just, er...?" "No, no." "I'm fine." "You're good." "I'm good." "You're not getting flashbacks?" "No, no." "I'm not getting flashbacks." "It's called Int Base because it's the international headquarters of Scientology but it's also called Gold Base because it's the Headquarters of Gold Studios and Gold Studios was a production facility that L. Ron Hubbard himself created" "churning out epic Hollywood style promotional videos." "When the history of this planet is finally told it will be a tale of exalted triumph that forever changed the destiny of Earth." "We are the IAS." "And Marc was well acquainted with a lot of these very dramatic films and how they were made because he was working on them as a producer." " Well, you show the best spot." " Yeah." " Is it this one?" " Yeah." "Whose land is this then?" "This is public." "This is public land." "So you can see this is the razor wire that's always talked about." "See, they don't have it on the main highway road but as soon as you get off the highway then there's razor wire around the entirety of the property, just like that." "And you can see the high-power floodlights." "You can see the motion sensors, those little black things near every fence post." "Those are called fence shakers." "So somebody climbs over the fence from the inside that sets off an alarm in that main security booth and all those flood lights all around the entire property turn on so they can easily locate someone who's trying to escape." "Let's hop out." "You lived here for fifteen years." "Fifteen years." "Do you feel now, looking back, that you were kept against your will?" "I think that I was a prisoner in my own..." "I was keeping myself here based on what they told me." "I knew that there would be consequences of me leaving that would make it so it would be very hard for me to live outside of this world." "Those consequences became so miniscule compared to the terror that I was living through here that it got to the point where I would rather be dead than to live here." "They recite events that never took place." "I am left in a position of my word against their word which is precisely the effect I feel they have tried to create." "Their efforts are orchestrated pursuant to a well-used litigation strategy that has been employed against L. Ron Hubbard various churches of Scientology, and me, for years." "Namely the gathering of apostates in search of money who are then used as a travelling roadshow to present packaged yet false testimony concerning scientologists, churches of Scientology and me." "That was very good." "Did you not think that was very good?" "Hubbard understood early on that he could spread his religious ideas using actors." "He wrote screenplays and liked being photographed on set, directing." "And as early as 1955 he launched something called Project Celebrity a list of high-profile people he hoped to recruit." "James Stewart." "Greta Garbo." "Danny Kaye." "And the practices of Scientology are like acting class techniques." "You're learning a new role in life." "It's an exciting day today because we are here to cast Tom Cruise." "He's obviously the most famous scientologist in the world." "In fact, probably a lot of people, all they know about Scientology is that Tom Cruise is a member." "And Tom Cruise is best friends with David Miscavige." "It was widely reported that David Miscavige was best man at Tom Cruise's wedding to Katie Holmes." "The other thing is that Marc was involved in making the promotional videos and one of the most famous and controversial promotional videos of Scientology was one involving Tom Cruise 'On Tom Cruise.'" "I think it's a privilege to call yourself a scientologist and it's something that you have to earn." "And... because a scientologist does." "And so we're going to use quotes from that footage to help us cast our actor and to understand what motivates Tom Cruise." "Got it." "Action." "I think it's a privilege to call yourself a scientologist because it's something that you have to earn." "It's a privilege to call yourself a scientologist." "It's something that you have to earn." "Because a scientologist does." "Cut." "This is not a bad place just to do a quick bit of background." "How... what level is Tom Cruise at in Scientology?" "And what... is that high?" "Yeah, the only one higher is OT 8." "When he gets to that next one, there's nothing he can do that's higher." " And each one costs money, right?" " Yeah, yeah." "To get all the way to top it can cost anywhere from half a million to 2 million dollars." "So for me it really is KSW." "For me it really is KSW." "And, er..." "I don't mince words with that, you know." "For me you know the pulse is just..." "Really it's just gone..." "Boy." "Yeah." "Do you wanna tell him what KSW is?" "Sure." "KSW is Keeping Scientology Working." "And Keeping Scientology Working is basically like obliterating anything that doesn't have to do with Scientology." "And keeping it working." "Any time somebody does something in Scientology that's not one hundred per cent Scientology you crush that person so that they do not ever do that again." "So for me it really is KSW." "It's just like... it's something that, er..." "I don't mince words with that." "You know with anything that LHR does but that policy to me has really gone..." "Boy." "I..." "There's a time I went through and I said 'You know what?" "'" "When I read it I was just like..." "Can you pause it?" " We just paused that at random, right?" " Yeah." "I mean, if you saw him across the breakfast table looking at you like that..." "Like, that's not, you know, pass the mustard." "That..." "In that KSW policy, L. Ron Hubbard says" "'We want you to have a dedicated glare in your eyes.'" "But, you know, I feel like there's a bigger question outside... what, like, I don't understand... why does he think this is so important?" "Because Scientology's the only way that the world is ever going to survive." "He thinks that without Scientology, what would happen?" "Charred ruins." "When the day's over, the only thing that's workable is Scientology." "Workable as what?" "As a technology, as an organizational technology." "As a spiritual technology." "It's a universal solvent that will handle all of the world's problems and the universe's problems." "They said 'So, like, have you met an SP?" "'" "Maybe one day it will actually be like that." "Maybe one day it'll be wow, like, SPs." "They'll just read about those in the history books, you know." "Do you wanna tell Caleb what an SP is?" "If you bad mouth Scientology or speak out against Scientology you're labelled a suppressive person." "And there's actually a policy within Scientology that says that how you handle a suppressive person or how you deal with a suppressive person is to ruin him utterly." "It's PTSSP, how to shatter suppression." "Confront Shatter Suppression." "You apply and it's like - boom." "Because they don't come up to me." "No, because they don't come up to me and... and say that." "Not to my face, you know." "Or anywhere in my vicinity." "Where, they can be " "Confronting." "They just don't do it." "Why not?" "Because they're afraid." "Afraid of?" "Of what they might find out about themselves." " Yeah, see, that's not in there." " We were just improv-ing." "No, no, I know, but what he said is exactly true." "Why did you say that?" "It's a fear of whatever but usually themself" "Wait, are you in character now or is this just you?" "Little bit of both." "I was going to say, he's getting really scary on me right now." "I mean, if the intent behind it is to help people then I mean there should be no harm in that." " Very good." " Great." "That was nice." "Thank you for that." "Not a problem." "You guys have yourself a wonderful afternoon." " You too." "Very good." " Thanks." "You to." "What is the license plate again?" "After four hours of the same oar being behind you it starts to look a bit suspicious." "And it's a white pickup truck." "A Tacoma." "He's right behind us now." "His windshield's quite dark, isn't it?" "Nothing suspicious about that." "Well, there's no question, is there?" "He's a private investigator." "What you've got to remember is this is a church." "I mean, that's the thing, isn't it?" "It's just not like any church that you can really think of." "I can't see him." "I think we've lost them." "So this is a letter that was forwarded to me from, um... one of our producers, and, er, it's... from the lawyers, Carter Ruck, retained by the Church of Scientology." "So evidently, um, they've got wind of, er, what we're doing." "And they say, um..." "'Our client is aware that Mr Theroux has auditioned for actors to play a young David Miscavige.'" "They don't know that we've also auditioned actors to play Tom Cruise." "But um..." "'In relation to the auditions our client's information is that Mr Theroux filmed these with Marty Rathbun in attendance and advising." "This is most concerning.'" "And so, how do they know that Marty was at the casting?" "Was one of the actors, conceivably..." "Did he put the word out, tell people in his circle?" "And did that get back to the church?" "Or was one of the actors a scientologist?" "Or was there someone on the inside who was somehow a mole?" " Or we were followed." " Or we were followed." "So you know we're going to see Tom De Vocht?" "Yes, sir." "And he is a, um... another embittered and disgruntled defrocked apostate." "Another?" "Well, in addition to you." "Why would you call me what the church calls me?" "Er, I was, er, I was..." "Do I look embittered?" "I couldn't care less, Louis." "Embittered is last adjective that would apply to me." "I'm way beyond embittered, I don't care." "Hey, hey, hey." "Guys, this in Erin, by the way." "How do you do?" "Louis." "Louis." "Erin, nice to meet you." "Are you Tom's other half, could we say?" "We're business partners." "We're business partners." "Really?" "What are you guys doing?" "A lot of people described David Miscavige as a sort of an aloof figure but I've heard that you were quite tight with David Miscavige." "Yeah." "I mean, we became pretty..." "It depends how you look at it." "You know, tight with David Miscavige isn't really possible, I don't think." " But, we did get along and he did..." " He liked you?" "I think what really happens is he may or may not like you but he uses you until you're fucking used up." "And then he chops your head off and everybody's gone." " And it's... it happens." " It's a pattern." "It is a pattern, it happens to everybody." "The guy..." "I mean, it soared you, you thought 'What the hell?" "'" "I played backgammon with him and I'd make a point to lose." " I mean, it was..." " Why'?" "And I got good at it, by the way, um..." "Because he had to." "Because he... if you... if he felt at all that you were more popular or better in any way or anything, he'd flip." "And he could flip like that." "Then you spend a little time up there." "The guy's got somebody, I'm sure you know this, recording him 24/7." "Even when we were sitting there drinking scotch tape recorders down and everything's being recorded." "Even if you were just saying, um..." "If we were playing backgammon, that damn thing was rolling." "Why?" "Um, you shocked by all this?" "You're on record as saying that you saw him, er, beat people." "Yeah." "It's unbelievable." "In the real world, you'd go to jail if you did something like that." "But what I don't understand is, um... so... but you seem like a normal reasonable person and Marty's fairly normal and reasonable." "And there are other people there, and why..." "How does someone get away with behaving in that way?" "This is the only thing I can tell you." "You got people who wrap bombs around themselves fly planes into buildings." "It's the same thing." "You believe so much in that technology or so much in whatever." "They can convince you of anything." "When I got interviewed by the FBI they said" "'Would you help us?" "If we went in to Gold up there busted open the gates and went in and, er, would you show us where things are?" "'" "I said 'Abso-fuoking-lutely, but you're wasting your time.'" "After I told them the same thing they went to him to cross-check and we'd never talked." "They said 'What are talking about?" "' And I said 'You're going to walk in and you might find terrible situations and every one of them are going to go" ""No, no, no, this is the way we want it." And at that point you're done." "They can't do anything.'" "What, so they were..." "they thought they could do a raid and liberate some of the church members?" "They telling you - Do a raid and liberate and find you know, the crazy shit going on" "I mean it's... it's insane." "It is the most destructive quote-unquote religion, cult" "I have ever read anything about or anything." "It is a fucking nightmare." "It really is." "And I see people today, I meet with people who still believe in a little bit of it and I just want to shake them and go 'You've got to fucking stop.'" "It's a crock of shit." "We've come back to Hemet with Marc." "And we'll be getting some shots of the base." "But I've also decided to drop off a reply to the latest letter from the church's lawyers." "David Miscavige lives and works most of the time at the Int Base" "So it's very easy for me to, um, to drop off the letter." "It's just sort of saying I, you know, 'The letter that you sent us have been forwarded on to me and that you're concerned that we may be following a kind of bigoted line of not giving Scientology the respect that it deserves.'" "Hello?" "Oh." "Can I just give you a letter?" "Can I just..." "Hello?" "Er, excuse me, you're, er, you're trespassing." "I've got a letter for Mr Miscavige." "Wait, I've got..." "You're trespassing and if you don't leave" "I'm going to have you arrested right now." "Can I deliver a letter, please?" "No, there's a bloke there but he seems enturbulated." "It's almost like just by receiving the letter he seemed afraid that he was in trouble or that it represented a threat to him." "We've been told it's a public road." "We own everything." "We own that, we own every house on this property." "The road?" "We own everything here." "They have a 100ft right of way from there from the middle of that road." "This is our property." "You need to leave." "The road, I'm talking about the road." "You already..." "Yes, it's our property." "We're standing on this road." "This is not a public road." "This is not a county road." "This is our road, we own everything on this place." "We own the golf course." "We own every house along here." "You now need to leave." "I'm trying to drop off a letter." "Well, the police will be coming." "We'll see my partner gets the important information." "Because I know that just by pointing that out to you..." "Yeah." "We're not trying to get in there, on there..." "We're not trying to climb on the fence." " We're trying to have a stand out safe area." " Where are you guys from?" " Hey?" " London." "London?" "From London, England." "How's the weather?" "This is beautiful." "It is a little too hot or am I just imaging it?" "And this is our, um, our film permit." "Do you know if it's a public road?" "I believe they own the roadway up to 50 per cent from the centre metre." "Look, if I'm six feet tall..." "Let's say there's three of me from there three of me there, then easily it gets to have kerb, doesn't it?" "Do you know why this guy's filming us?" "You don't mind, that's not bothering you?" "That what?" "That he's filming us?" "It doesn't bother me that you're filming us." "Oh good." "You guys have a good one, all right?" "Hey, no, appreciate it." "Okay, thank you." "What's your name?" "You need to leave too." " Yes, that's fine." " Both of you." " Yeah." "What's your name?" "We're done." "Get in the oar." "Are you in the Sea Org?" "Thanks, guys." "Did you see that?" " Absolutely." " We had a moment." "Yeah, absolutely." "Did you recognise the woman who came and talked to me?" "Catherine Fraser." "Yeah." "And she, Catherine Fraser her husband is a gentleman by the name of Jeff Hawkins who is another guy that left and he wrote a book." "I've read his book." "Counterfeit Dreams." "He's the guy..." "Who wrote a book about how he was way many times or at least several times beaten up by David Miscavige." "He was one of Miscavige's alleged, um..." "He was a punching bag." "Punching bag." "And then he blew." "We've brought Marty back." "And, um, we're doing drills." "Marty's offered to take us through some of the Scientology TRs or training routines." "So this is my chance and our actors' chance to experience the Scientology tech, its technology, first-hand." "And Marty, when he was in Scientology was the Inspector General in charge of tech." "He used to maintain orthodoxy he made sure that all the Hubbard-written drills and processes were implemented exactly correctly and so who better than him to take us through drills today?" "Hi." "Hi." "Are you filming?" "Yes." "Okay." " Are you with him?" " Yeah." "What are you, what are you filming?" "Can you say?" "Er, we're just filming a documentary for us." " For you?" " Yeah." " Can you tell me about it?" " No." "Can you tell me about the scene you're filming?" "I'm a freelance cameraman I'm just working with her." "With her?" "What's your name?" "I'm not going to say." "Can you tell me a little bit about why you're here?" "We're just filming a documentary of people." "That's it." "Um, because you were filming us, so I just wondered if there was a reason." "Um, we're just, um, filming." "That's it." "Yeah." "Is that okay or not?" "Er, well, I'd just like to know, since you were filming me why you were filming me." " Would you like to..." " I'm not, I'm not answering." "Well, can you explain?" "I'm a freelance cameraman, I'm just hired by her to..." "Right, but what did she tell you about what you were doing?" "To just roll camera on..." "on this location." "Come on, help me out, let's get..." " Let's not place the..." " She is in charge of this." "I'm happy to tell you about what I'm doing but I'd like you tell me what you're doing." "I'm... well, I guess I can't help you on any of this." "I'm just..." "You're going to have to have to talk to her." "She's the one who called me." "So I honestly, I don't know." "You know, I'm..." "We don't have to be silly about this." "Why don't you just tell me what you doing?" "I'm more than happy to tell you about what we're working on." "That's fine." "I'm not." "Come back, don't run away." "Did you know that we're doing a documentary about Scientology?" "I think you're harassing me now." "Listen, you're filming me!" "How can I be harassing you?" "Come back." "Stop running away." " Did you see any of that unfold?" " Yeah, yeah." "What's the big picture here?" "I mean, why are they doing this?" "The big picture is if you look into us we'll look into you 10 times as much and we will make your life too miserable to continue with what you're doing." "That's the point of it, that's the bigger picture." "Been there, done it." "On both sides." "On both sides?" "Are we going to get started?" "Yeah, I think we're good to go whenever you want to." " Hi." " Hi." "My name's Marty." "Okay, so he said you're willing to participate in the drills for real, no?" "Yeah?" "Mmmhmm." "Okay." "Student and coach sit facing each other with eyes closed." "There is no conversation, it is a silent drill." "There is no twitching, moving." "Simply be there." "What you can do is, is if you feel like, like you accomplish something on it just raise your hand." "Because we're not doing it under the official auspices of Scientology we're doing something that's called squirrelling." "And in Scientology, that is the crime of crimes." "Come on, Marty, you got anything to say?" "You can't even defend yourself on this, can you?" " What's your name?" " Why don't you answer his question?" "Marty, I'm with Squirrel Busters Productions." "In goof ball outfits." "Squirrelling is heresy and squirreling is the reason why, for more than a year" "Marty was hounded and harassed by the squirrel busters." "They were busting him for attempting to set up a revival church to Scientology." "Marty, knock it off." "Anything that is not official, Scientology-authenticated tech is terrible, is deeply dangerous." "Woo hoo!" "And putting the entire fate of the planet and not just this planet, all planets in the universe at risk, because you're not doing it correctly." "How ya doing, Mr Squirrel?" " And then the debate becomes, well..." " How are you doing, Mr Squirrel?" "Is that because they want to maintain a monopoly over the practices because their whole business model is to do with selling these services?" "Start." "You are one ugly motherfucker you know that?" "Flunk." "Ever so slightly." "Start." "You are one ugly motherfucker, you know that?" "Okay." "Flunk, you twitched." "This is the make-break point here." "Now you're going to teach somebody how to have some forbearance and tolerance and ability to take some shit." "You know." "This is the most highly criticized drill but it's the most highly sworn by drill too." "It's called bull bait." "Okay?" "You're not a very good journalist, are you?" "You're really bad at it." "This is probably the best you're going to do." "Your wife really doesn't love you." "At all." "She's fucking some other guy right now." "It's probably someone you know." "It's probably your brother, if you have a brother, or a relative of yours." "Your boyfriend's having sex in your own room." "God, he's really good, I don't really know what to say." "What do I do?" "Let me do something." "Okay." "Let me take over for a second." "Let me just, let me see." "Okay, John, I'm going to do a little drilling with you, okay?" "Louis." "Start." "Oh, Jesus." "Do we have to do that?" "I hate you!" "Face me comfortably." "Okay?" "Flunked." "Can we not do that one?" "We've got to flatten it now." "I don't like loud noises." "Now that it's started we have to flatten it." "We're going to flatten this button." "Okay?" "Start." "I think if you've seen in the public eye people who are prominent scientologists they have a sort of very forceful, er, bearing." "An intentional type of personality." "That's essentially what these things drill in." "Purpose." "To make student clearly achieve tone 40 commands." "Tone 40." " The highest tone." " The highest tone." "So they'd be the most effective commands?" "The most effective commands." "It's an effortless thing, ultimately." "First locate the space in which the object is located." "You see that space?" "Yes, I do." "Locate the object in that space." "Okay." "Command the object in the loudest possible voice he can muster." "Now." "We're going to get into the commands, which are stand up thank you, sit down in that chair." "Right?" "Okay." "Put one hand on each side." "Okay, good." "So command it as loudly as you can." "Stand up!" "Okay." "Have it comply." "Acknowledge it as loudly as you can." "Thank you." "Command it as loudly as you can." "Sit down in that chair!" "Thank you." "Now have it comply." "Now." "Thank you!" "Okay, good." "All right, now do this." "Think the thought 'I am a wildflower.'" "Okay." "Good." "Think the thought that you are sitting in a chair." "Okay." "Imagine the thought, that thought, of you sitting in a chair." "Imagine that thought being in that ashtray." "Imagine it." "Okay." "Now get the ashtray thinking that it is an ashtray." "You know, I'm going along with this but it isn't making a whole lot of sense." "Okay." "But is that okay?" "Well, it's imagination." "Okay." "Got it." "I'm telling you..." "Put in the ashtray the intention to remain where it is." "Okay." "Okay, do you get any..." "did you get that at all?" "Well, I'm imagining it having a little voice saying 'I'm going to remain where I am.'" "Okay, all right." "Get the idea of putting a thought into my mind about whether to continue this drill or to dump it." "One way or the other." "I want you to put that intention right back here." "Whether I should continue this drill or whether I should dump it." "You want me to continue the drill." "Yes." "Okay, good." "I got that." "Now, we always end up by the portrait of Hubbard." "Let's give a hand to him and everybody stands up." "If we wanted to do that, would you be comfortable with us doing it?" "You can do it but I'm going to go." "If we all visualized a picture of Hubbard?" "I mean, I advise you guys not to do it but..." "Guys, do you want to..." " If you want to join this guy's cult, that's okay with me." "Let's just get a sense of what it feels like." "Whether it feels..." "it might not even feel weird." "Connor's up for it." "I don't want to do it if it's going to annoy you, Marty." "No, go ahead and do it, I'm just not participating, that's all." "Then the thing... the other thing that goes with it, Louis, is everything positive that happens to you you get validated by attributing it to what you learned from Hubbard." "And everything negative that happens to you you're counseled that it's your lack of application of what you did learn." "And then it really becomes mind control, by definition." "And that's the game." "That's why I really don't want to participate in it." "You don't seriously..." "I figured the whole..." "I figured the whole mousetrap out and I just don't want to engage in it, that's all." "I'm not participating in that shit." "Let's give a hand to LRH!" "You see, I think the whole thing was a freaking failure." "You want to know why?" "Because they went ahead and did what he suggested after I went through all that work to try and get them to become self-determined and able to exercise intention and they all went and followed this new cult leader." "The Louis Theroux cult." "Is he all right?" "Do you find my questions inane in general?" "In general no, I'm just, you know..." "With the ones you're asking now, I mean, I find..." "I just don't understand why you're asking them like you're asking them at this point." "I've spent so many hours with you and then you make everything sound so pedestrian and you..." "I don't know what you're wanting me to..." "I've told the story, like, I don't know how many times do you want me to tell you again?" "I mean, we went through this last time I was here." "I got into the whole freaking thing." "I remember these are the same questions coming again like you're gonna get a different answer now?" "Or you're gonna find an inconsistency, you know, you're gonna..." "What's the purpose of this?" "Yesterday it seemed like you, a couple of times maybe I was getting on your nerves a little bit." "Is that a statement?" "Er..." " I'm sorry you had..." "I'm sorry you got that impression." "Ask me something that truly puzzles you that you think I might have the answer to." "That you haven't asked me six times already." "What did it feel like punching Marc Headley?" "Er, it hurt my... it hurt." "It hurt my fist." "The guy is built like a tank." "We've had another letter." "To be honest with you, we've had a couple more letters." "And they're similar in tone and what they basically say is you are embarked on a project that is run through with religious bigotry." "The church's version of events is that they do massive amounts of good work." "Social betterment programmes." "They alleviate illiteracy, drug addiction, um, criminal behaviour." "They do disaster relief." "And it, you know, and what we're doing is ignoring all of that and focusing of a tiny handful of disgruntled ex-members." "And that Marty Rathbun in particular is a deeply unstable and untrustworthy figure with a vendetta against the church." "These are letters from Carter Ruck the lawyers retained by the Church of Scientology and they were sent to me." "These are from Marty Rathbun's weblog describing the leader of the Scientology religion as" "Ayatollah Miscavige and the Church of Scientology as Radical Scientology which is obviously abusive and offensive of both Mr Miscavige and the church." "Well, first of all..." "I think it's an understatement, if anything." "'Mr Fiathbun has an extensive record of misrepresenting his position." "For instance, he worked in an external-affairs position when in the Church and never served in an ecclesiastical management role, contrary to his claims.'" "This is absurd." "There are absurd things in these letters that you're taking for granted." "What was your issue with that one?" "Because I was the Inspector General." "Which is what, what did you do?" "Which is actually the highest ecclesiastical position contemplated ever by L. Ron Hubbard." "I was the baddest ass dude in Scientology." "The highest level public..." "The hierarchy of the Church of Scientology was absolutely at the beck and call of me." "When you look back at the stuff you did, what is the stuff you most regret?" "You see, why are you jumping to that?" "You ask me these questions that act as if what happened in a one-minute period is who I was for 28 years?" "It's bullshit." "As I've spent time with Marty, it's become clear he is a double-edged figure." "Both the chief whistle-blower but also, as the church's own documents make clear in his time, the chief enforcer." "One of the most notorious episodes was when he was Inspector General." "Marty claims he arranged for a top Scientology defector to be tailed by two Pls because they thought he might have absconded with some religious writings of Hubbard's." "And the tailing apparently continued for around 20 years." "So you could argue that Marty went along with the regime until he fell out of favour." "By Marty's account, in 2004 he'd been away on assignment and he returned to the Int Base to find that David Miscavige had created this punishment area for upper management called the SP Hole." "And within weeks, Marty himself had been sent there and it was only then that he blew." "You know, if those are scientologists, they're not SPs they're not outsiders, so why are they going into the Hole?" "Well, Miscavige says that they are SPs who are working against him and trying to get him to fail." "They were sleeping in there, they would eat their meals in there and you can imagine if you have 30 or 40 people living in an office space" "24 hours a day for weeks and months you can imagine what it was like." "It was just dirty and degraded, you know?" "This is something I was awarded when I got Dianetics on the bestseller list." "Oh, see, this is interesting." "It's a leather bound copy of..." "let me grab some other photos if I can find them." "That's some photos of my third wife, Catherine." "You know, I went down to the Int Base and I met Catherine Fraser." " Mmm." "My ex." "Yeah." " Your ex-wife." "I think she, at heart, is a good person." "That's trapped in a not so good system and, um... but I know that she's a good person at heart." "I've also been spending a bit of time with Marty Rathbun." "What was the impression of Marty at the base?" "How was he viewed?" "He was, er..." "Tough." "Uncompromising and, er..." "Liked?" "Not really." "Feared maybe." "That atmosphere brings out the worst in people." "Either they submit or they become one of the predators, you know." "And Marty for a while was one of the predators there." "And in a sense he was, you know, the Mr Fix-It for David Miscavige and did some of the dirty work." "Oh yeah, yeah." "And I don't think he's divulged all." "I'll just say that." "You don't think so?" "I don't think he's divulged everything." "What makes you say that?" "Well, because I've read all of his books and his columns and stuff like that and I just get the feeling he's tiptoeing around some subjects, you know." "Marty knows where all the bodies are buried." "This was the escape route, I was coming in the other direction." "The base is about 5 miles down that way." "This was your escape route?" "Yeah, I was on my motorcycle, it was about..." "low forties." "Were you pursued?" "Raining." "I don't know." "I didn't see anybody." "But I just went like a bat out of hell and I went down this road here." "When you blew, this is the way you came?" " Yeah." " When you fled the Hole." "Yes, sir." "So the idea is just to re-enact some of the events that you lived through, Marty." "Uh-huh." "Using, you know..." "And you want to have the environment to be similar?" "Yeah, we want to do it as close to the real place as we can." "Well, it was all inside." "So you could literally recreate it anywhere." "I think we're good, what do you think?" "I'll have a look, I can't see anything." "Have a look." "Oh, this is great." "So what did you think of the lines?" "What lines?" "These lines, the ones that I..." "They suck, they're unnatural." "They're from your book." "You got to be natural." "It just comes out like a flood." "Do we think we're going to put trailers out here or do you think that we would do just as well doing it in a set in LA?" " Better." " Better?" " Better." " Why?" "You don't have the logistical problems of bringing all these actors out here." "There's... this is a logistics nightmare out here, okay?" "You got to create that claustrophobia, you know." "You know, it's nondescript, cheap-ass sort of office set-up." "Well, we'll figure that stuff out." "Hey, before we lose the light, Marty" "I was just going to take Andrew just by the base by the Int Base - he expressed an interest in doing that." "You don't want to go by the base do you?" "No." "It was that red car that was there for a long time and Marty was in..." "We're going to lose the light, we'd better get down there." "What is this, Sublette Road?" "Road Closed?" " Closed." " What?" "Was this closed last time?" "No." "Can they do that?" "Lights." "Oh shit." "What?" "That's us." "Oh." "Is that... that's barbed wire?" "I think that's some kind of barbed wire or spikes on top of there." "Spikes?" "Yeah." "Whoa." "Oh." "That is actually quite helpful." "And there are cameras there as well." "Okay." "What... is it trying to communicate something?" "Why is it flashing?" "You guys are trespassing." "You need to leave or I'm going to call the oops." "Hi, how are you doing?" "You're trespassing." "You need to leave or I'm calling the oops." "It's okay, we have a permit." "For the third time, you're trespassing, you need to leave or I'm calling the cops." " We have a permit, it's fine." " Leave." "We've got a permit, sir." "Are we allowed to leave?" "Are we allowed to leave?" "Yeah, while he's calling the oops, or is that somehow..." "Er." "Yeah, yeah, yeah I think so." "not allowed?" "I think that's what they want, they want us to leave." "Okay." "Well it doesn't seem like we're doing much else here, right?" "I mean..." "Are you okay?" " I'm fine." " You're not worried about it?" "Well, the way that guy was barking at us..." "But he was using tone 40." " Yeah, I think it was, like, tone 20." " I'm serious." " You think 20... 20'?" " Yeah." "They're on Sublette Road." "They're just being curious Parkers, they're trespassing." "The road is closed, we've told them to leave." "You can't see where I'm calling?" "What is my..." "Yeah, yeah." "Hello." "Did you want to see the permit?" "One is from England, I know he's a BBC reporter" "I have no idea of his name." "Louis." "Um, Louis?" "Louis." "Okay, the road's closed, you're trespassing and you need to leave." "Apparently it's a public road." "No, it isn't." "And we have a..." "The road is..." "No, you don't." "But can I just show you the permit?" "No it isn't, it isn't a public road." " It's trespassing." " Look, Catherine, Catherine." "You're not that stupid." "You see that thing?" "Whoa, whoa, whoa, you're assaulting me." "It says road closed." "Look." "Look." "No, look." "Come here." "Come here." "Let me show you." "No, come on, what's your name?" "No, please." "Lewis?" "Louis." "Louis." "Louis." "Look." "Are you so stupid you cannot see the sign that says road closed?" "But, look, it's... ls there anything about that that you don't understand?" "Closed?" "Well, look, I've got a permit..." "Do you know what a road means?" "with a name on it." "It's closed." "We're not... we don't..." "The road is closed." "We don't want to create any issue for you." "And I don't want him filming me, so tell him to stop." "Well, you're filming us." "Tell him to stop." "Why don't you tell him to stop?" "Tell him to stop." "You tell him to stop and I'll tell him to stop." "How about that?" "Stop." "Tell him to stop." "Louis, you need to leave." "Catherine, we don't need to leave." "Yes, you do." "Catherine, we don't." "You're trespassing." "We're not." "Catherine." "Well, you're not trespassing now." "You can stay here all night." "Fine." "Thank you." "Catherine." "Catherine, what are you angry about?" "You know, we... our... my..." "You're going to stand there." "My deep desire is actually to speak to someone from the Sea Org." "Oh right." "Right, oh Louis." "Oh yeah." " So you're actually doing me quite big favour... by being here." "You're like, oh yeah, you're so honest." "Oh yeah." "Yeah." "You take the stars for honesty." "So what... so this is good, like, let's just keep the conversation going." "No, we're done." "Bye, Louis." "What, don't... you don't have to go, you're not trespassing." "Wait till the police come." "We'd like you to stay." "Catherine?" "Can we talk to you?" "Are you in the Sea Org as well?" "Are you making a documentary as well?" "And if so, who is your one for?" "Catherine, I think we're going to go, okay?" "Just so you know." "All right?" "You guys are missing all the action inside the terminal." "I've got Mark Yager, Jenny De Vocht and Dave Bloomberg, another hit guy sort of getting in my face here." "I've got it on videotape, you guys might be interested in it." "Er." "Anyway, there you go, you guys missed the fireworks." "So a call's just come in from Marty saying that once he'd got through security there were three prominent scientologists on the other side." "So they've started again, squirrel busting." "Can you move on, please?" "Can you guys move on, please?" "They're behaving in a way that's so obviously pathological." "You would think that they would realise that other people would see that and think this is a religion of lunatics." "They are doing it for one audience." "Which is David Miscavige." "They are trying to prove that they are loyal to him because he holds all the strings." "He has the ultimate power in Scientology." "He could banish them from Scientology with a word." "He holds your eternity in his hand so it's not just the threat of death, it's the threat of, er... really dying over and over and over again and in ignorance and darkness and that's what they think is in store for them." "He has ultimate spiritual power over scientologists." "He says who goes up the bridge and who doesn't go up the bridge, you know?" "And he can bar you from Scientology forever if you cross him." "And he knows that." "You know, he knows the power that he's got." "Same power Hubbard had." "You know?" "You worked with David Miscavige quite a bit." "Oh yeah." "And he didn't like you much, did he?" "No, no." "He, er, physically beat me up on about 5 separate occasions." "There was one case where I was in a meeting with him" "I was presenting an infomercial script that I had worked on." "He hated it and he's getting himself worked up and worked up and worked up and finally he jumps up on the conference room table." "He's a little guy but he's like, you know, muscular." "Jumps up on the conference room table launches himself at me, knocks me back against a partition beating my face and then he knocks me on the floor." "And then he stalks out of the room and there were literally, like, 30 or 40 top executives in that room." "And they're saying" "'Get up, get up you don't want to make him wrong.'" "You know, like if I laid there all scratched up and torn that would be making him wrong and that would be terrible." "This is the re-enactment which we've been talking about doing." "And Marty's here and we've got our set as discussed with him." "We've got actors, we've got a script written by Marty based on what allegedly happened at the Gold Base around the time of the Hole." "So we're going to improvise based on that." "And we have as well in the background although I haven't told Marty this yet but we have Tom Cruise." "I'm not suggesting that he was at the Int Base at this time or that he knew what was going on." "But as Scientology's poster boy whatever happened in Scientology for good or ill carries his name on it." "Welcome to the Hole." "This is a recreation of the watchdog committee conference room which was at the international base at Riverside, California." "There was a guard at the door meals were brought in." "Sleeping bags were put on the floor, people had to sleep there." "Miscavige then reading in all of these evil intentions that these people must have against him." "And it must be some kind of..." "and this is kind of Scientology thinking that there's some suppressive person that's poisoning everything unbeknownst to everybody else." "And so there was more and more people getting into it and when I was there it was, like, 60 people and apparently it went up to 80 or 100 at different times after I left." "Were they kept against their will, would you say?" "All of the doors and windows were barred and there was a security guard at the door so I would call that against their will." "But if they'd wanted to badly enough it's hard not to feel they could have made a run for it." "Well, yes, yes." "And this is one of the things that people don't understand about that environment." "I mean, take my case." "I finally decided to turn my back on the whole subject and leave." "I had to walk away from a 35-year commitment." "My wife who I loved very much." "All of the friends I had in the world were at that Int Base." "A person has to be so desperate to just turn their back on everything and say 'I don't care about all that." "I have to leave this place because it's just too oppressive' and walk out into a world that is just totally foreign and where they don't know anybody, they don't know the rules they don't know how to get a job, they don't know how to get a bank account." "You know, it's a foreign world that they have to go out and somehow cope with." "Alone." "And people say 'Why don't they just walk out?" "'" "Well, that's why." "Because, in essence, it's a kind of a suicide." "You have to say 'My life is over and I'm walking out of my life and into a totally different life.'" "You know, it's that level of desperation that you have to get to and people that are still in there, they haven't gotten to that level of desperation." "The people in the Hole, they haven't gotten to that level of desperation - yet." "You know?" "And this incident we're doing is when he finally decides the last person he trusts he doesn't trust anymore and I'm getting sentenced to the Hole." "And three days later, I was gone." "Because I thought leaving was the only thing I could do so sort of... wake him up, because if I leave, I hold the keys to the kingdom and that should sober him up." "What the fuck is that doing?" "!" "Get the fuck up." "Fucking DB." "Walk." "Walk." "Fucking crawl." "Get down." "Lick the fucking floor." "Lick the floor." "It may be that every religion carries within it the DNA for its own distinct crimes." "Fucking mental midgets, that's right." "The Hole and the allegations of abuse are in my view an extreme but logical extension... of the principles of Scientology." "Where do you sleep?" "Where do you sleep?" "Answer my fucking question!" "On the ground, sir." "Where on the ground?" "And I am so frantic trying to light a fire under your lazy asses since you routinely let everything go to hell the second I don't have a gun to your head." "The Sea Org is imbued with a Spartan warrior ethic and bull baiting, squirrel busting and shattering suppression are part of their dogma,." "This motherfucker." "While I'm busy trying to put things back in order because you fucking degraded beings don't get shit done." "Look at this fucking Org board." "Fucking Org board." "You fucking SP." "The way you fucking handle an SP... is you handle him roughly." "You handle him roughly!" "You fucking handle him roughly!" "Okay?" "Okay?" "Yes, sir." " Yes!" "Yes!" " Yes, sir." "The church denies the existence of the Hole and any abuse by David Miscavige." "It provides numerous statements from people who say these things just never happened." "Sit down." "Sit down." "Sit down." "But there are also many ex-church members who say that they did happen" "and I've come to believe a version of this did take place." "And watching it unfold, I kept thinking about Marty and his years of service and his complicity." "Okay." "Anyone listens to this fucking cocksucker you are automatically and immediately SP declared." "Have a pleasant evening." "Cut." "That was a command performance." "We're done." "That was just a command performance." "Is everyone alright?" "Man, he was on a roll." "I just sat back and watched because it was as if he was channeling that guy." "That was... that is what it was." "And you can see, it becomes an overwhelm, and you're like 'Whoa!" "'" "What's an SP like you doing in a place like this?" "Don't you ever give it up?" "We're actually..." "You're not going to talk to us, Marty?" "Oh look!" "You've got another guy with a camera." "Hey, guys, what are you doing?" "That's terrific." "We actually came to talk to Marty." " Go on." " Yeah." " Yeah, so anyway, Marty..." " You want to identify yourselves?" "How much is the BBC paying you, Marty?" "I just wanted to find out, like, between the foster care and what the BBC is paying you, is that enough for you to cover your nut?" " Can you identify yourselves, please?" " Did Moby have to go?" "Actually I'm having a comm cycle here with Marty." "Yeah, the foster care." "Do you get paid enough for the foster care?" "You, I think I know." "Where is your friend from last time?" "These guys hired me this time." "Can you tell me who they are?" "You can ask them, don't..." "They hired me to work on their documentary." "Did you finish the other project?" "Nicely done." "I have no interest in being filmed." "Thanks, Marty." "Guys, stick around." "Please." "It's the same guy." "Which guy, the cameraman?" "Can we just have you names?" "This is really sick, man." "This is really sick." "They're saying that are you getting paid enough for your foster care between this and your foster care, is that paying you enough?" "How much are they paying you?" "Between that and your foster care are you able to survive?" "I don't know anything about foster care." "Monique and I are providing for him." "It's a straight adoption." "None of these things just happen." "David Miscavige had to direct this." "He scripted it and directed it." " Big roll!" " Oooh!" "That is a five." "That is a five." "Two and five." "Now, I got to see what I'm gonna do with it but, er..." "One, two." "You lucky motherfucker." "He brought my wife's name into it and he's brought my son into this." "I didn't want to do it but I'm going to have to pull the plug on this organization." "You don't bring my child into this." "Not unless you want me to do something extremely severe in response." "Do the actors know what was going on?" "We probably shouldn't tell them." "They'll just get upset." "You know, welcome to my life, Louis." "And I say you've just illustrated it." "Like, I'm working with these people but I've got to withhold from them that these guys are in my face here because they might be upset." "It's the same thing I have to go through with all of my contacts in life." "I have to live this life where I can't really share what happens to me on a day-to-day basis because if I do, it freaks people out." "Do you understand the burden?" "We can't make friends." "It's very difficult." "To say 'Hey, um, you know, come on over for a barbecue but realise you might be being surveilled and it might be going into the archive of the most pernicious, dangerous cult that the western world has known in the past 50 years.'" "You understand what I'm saying?" "But I will tell you this." "He will rue the day that he brought my son into this." "He will rue the day." "You know, we talked early on about..." "You know, you were, er, you ran private investigators." "I mean, some of these techniques were things you did to other people." " I mean, you ran Pls who infiltrated..." " You know, you are so wrong." "I never, ever, even crossed my mind to think about... about bringing a person's child into something." "I never, ever, ever crossed my mind to use a terroristic technique like that." "Ever." "Nothing like this." "I mean, you had people pretending to be people's friends while secretly..." "Yeah, alright." "I mean, I'm not trying to give you... isn't that a fact?" " Huh'?" " Isn't that a fact though?" "You're a fucking asshole, that's a fact." "Fuck you." "You know, I'm sitting here having my child brought into this thing and you want to fucking sit here and make me defend myself." "Fuck yourself." "I have to be subjected to this shit and I got to take this shit from him?" "All right, forget it, Marty." "I'm not trying..." "You know, fuck yourself." "Truly." "I consider myself fucked." "I don't know what to say now, like, do you want to change the..." "You should apologise for starters and say that's... we're canceling that, we'll pick up where we..." "Alright, fine, cancel that." "before that whole thing started." "But even then, I want a minute to cool down." "Because this is really offensive." "I'm really fucking offended by it." "I'm telling you, I have no life" "I can't even make friendships, I am unemployable and you start giving me this shit?" "That definitely brings us to both the close of tonight's event and the start of a whole new era yet before we part I want you to remember the two operative words with which we opened this evening" " Necessity Level." "The moment you realise the scope of Scientology the very instant you accepted its power in one way or another, you are committed by necessity to help in every way you can." "We mean it." "And the only slim chance that this planet has rests on a few slim shoulders." "Over worked, underpaid and fought, the scientologist." "Later on, if we make it what will be your answer to this question?" "Did you help?" "And I say, let's all make it happen." "Thank you very much to LRH." "That inspirational speech and the film of the 2004 gala is the dream of how the world would be with Scientology." "Well-ordered and grandiose and reaching for some higher purpose." "All the bull baiting and the shattering suppression they're justified because of this." "And in spite of everything I now know a little part of me still feels the pull of their vision." "It may be tempting to look at the faces and see foolishness." "But you could also choose to see good people who are members of a church that's been hijacked by its own Pope." "Thank you very much, see you next year, goodnight." "Well, they think they're saving the world, right?" "They see you as the ultimate suppressive." "Ah, see, that's where you're wrong." "That's where you're wrong." "Ultimately, it's as if he literally in his warped mind is begging me to end all this for him." "He knows I'm the truth, man." "And that is the scariest thing in the world to him." "I am done with it." "And they keep..." " Oh, your number's up, Marty, they're going to arrest you." "They keep pulling me back in." " Morning." " Howdy." "We're just doing some random inspections here today." "Yeah." "We need to take a look in the back make sure you don't have any missiles hidden back there." "There's some guys in there." "It is on, yeah, that is on, we're filming." " Okay." " We're making a movie."