"Right now on "Close Up with The Hollywood Reporter"..." "I think the key to everything is to have such a relationship with the actors." "I find, like, normally on a set, you're very much like a family." "He said, you're not just an artist." "You also have to consider yourself as a generara and there are two parts you have to play." "He can be brutal." "I nearly died on a number of occasions with him as a director." "Oh, wow." "People are watching films on their phones now, so we're striving for these fantastic, epic images, and the people who are watching the film are gonna watch it on a screen that size." "(Stephen Galloway) We'll hear from the cinematographers behind the year's most visually striking films." "Hello and welcome to "Close Up with The Hollywood Reporter."" "I'm Stephen Galloway, Executive Editor of Features." "And I'm Carolyn Giardina, Contributing Editor." "(Stephen) And let's get started." "(Carolyn) What's the toughest part of being a cinematographer?" "I think, like Seamus McGarvey said, having a strong bladder." "(laughter)" "When you don't have, uh" "So you don't have to sneak off set." "Having a good director." "Elaborate on that point." "Well, the better your director is, the better your work's gonna be." "Especially in combination with a great production designer." "If you have a great production designer, your work is only improved, and it's that combination of the team, that's the most valuable aspect, I think." "And you've had that relationship with Quentin for quite a long time." "Could you talk about that a little bit?" "I've had it with Quentin, I had it with Oliver, had it with Marty." "So it's always been good to b-- Most of those." "I mean, they're relatively word-oriented people." "How did it help you with "Hateful Eight"?" "With "Hateful," it's a very close relationship over the number of films we've been making." "So there's a little bit of shorthand, but Quentin is extraordinarily well prepared." "This here is Daisy Domergue." "She's wanted dead or alive for murder." "When that sun comes out, I'm taking this woman to hang." "Is there anybody here committed to stoppg me from doing that?" "Well, well, well." "Looks like Minnie's Haberdashery is about to get cozy for the next few days." "Yes, it does." "How much prep time do you ask for, then?" "When you do" "Eight weeks is usually what I get." "Eight weeks?" "On-- othis one, particularly, it was longer, because it was 65 millimeter." "Right." "And no one had shot with the lenses, so I had to come in and out." "It lasted for almost three months." "Now, that was a very long process, because Panavision even rebuilt lenses for you." "Could you talk a little bit about that prep period and what was involved?" "Well, the lenses, I don't know how much you guys know about them, but they're-- they're-- haven't been used in 40 years, roughly." "Uh, they're Ultra Panavision, they're at 2:76 in scale." "Also, Quentin wanted to shoot in 65 with a 70-millimeter presentation." "There's no digital intermediate involved with this film in its initial showcase presentation." "We initially set out to do standard 65, but I saw these lenses in a back room and I didn't know what they were." "They were magnificent." "They're like" "They're like-- like nothing I've ever seen." "When they were on the screen, you just... (Stephen) Just, yeah." "(Alwin Kuchler) So you discovered them just by walking around Panavision." "Because I didn't know that they existed till" "I heard from your film." "Yeah, I went up with my camera assistant, and we put up the original lenses we had, and I was looking, and while they were putting up and re-- fiddling with some things," "I walked through a little netted-off area, and over in the far back corner, in a very dark part of this little room were these set of lenses." "(Stephen) Oh, wow." "And they were shaped like wedges." "I mean, what a wedge." "(Alwin) What" "What were they built for, actually?" "What were they used to" ""Ben-Hur." Oh, "Ben-Hur."" "(Mandy Walker) Oh, wow." "That was the first one." "I think, uh... there might have been one prior," ""Mutiny on the Bounty." And so they" "They had prism fronts, so they're angled like this." "Then they had cylindricals." "Cylindricals went later for "Khartoum"" "and, you know, "Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World," and..." "But it was remarkable." "When I went up, I had a smile, and when Dan Sasaki came back and he saw me looking, you know, one of these, Dan went "shooh."" "Like, his eyes went big, like, "Oh, my God," you'd like..." ""Maybe you'll get this pulled off."" "And I know we all thought simultaneously, like," ""2:76 would be reintroduced."" "We should actually mention Dan Sasaki, because he's a lens god." "Yeah." "Everybody talks about Dan." "(Carolyn) Yes, yes." "Panavision's lens guy." "Well, he's-- yeah, he's the one who tweaks lenses and he's, like, the man to adjust lenses." "(Mandy) And builds them." "And builds them." "You've worked with David O. Russell." "Mm-hmm." "Twice, I think." "Yes." "How are those experiences different?" "And how is working with David different from other directors?" "(Linus Sandgren) David, I mean, he's a great storyteller." "You-- he just needs to open his mouth and he would tell a story about anything." "And what's interesting with him is that he" "He processes the film production as a constant evolving creature." "It's like always le a big piece of art, right?" "The monster that he keeps trimming and keeps working with." "And he's-- he's never saying, like, "Here is the shooting script." "This is what my film's gonna be."" "While other directors could be very precise with exactly what they want from the beginning and never leave that." "but I think the more you learn, the more you learn to, you know, let the acting and the whole film sort of impact you and let you be inspired." "And I think David has, in both "American Hustle" and in "Joy,"" "he kept his process." "He has the same process of how he wants the workflow and the film to be, you know, made." ""American Hustle" was very much inspired by, obviously, the plot in the film but also about the '70s and about, like," ""Cosmopolitan" magazines, visually, from that time, that gave us the idea of actually shooting it very much like a curious kid following, because of the-- the conning each other all the time, it's like," "we wanted to see if they were lying or be there with the camera very physically." ""Joy," on the other hand, he had another approach where, as one part of his inspiration was very influenced and inspired by black-and-white American cinema from back in the days, which contains much more mise-en-scène blockings" "and very much more efficient storytelling, in a way." "And that sort of gave us-- production designer Judy Becker and me and Michael Wilkinson-- ideas about how to start to process the cinematography, because I think, always, cinematography has to be based in the script" "and the idea of the vision of the director." "(woman) Dad, don't go in there." "Mom's in there." "(gasps)" "(woman #2) You can have him back, Terry." "I don't want him anymore." "What was so much better about being with Sharon?" "Dad, don't answer that." "We went to the Metropolitan Museum of Art." "What did you like at the museum?" "What did I like?" "I'll tell you what I liked." "I liked the ancient Roman statues," "I liked the medieval armor," "I liked the Etruscan jewelry and..." "Museums are for dust and death." "I liked going to the cafe." "Having an espresso." "Okay, okay, enough." "A nice panini." "That's what I liked." "You had a panini in a coffin, Rudy." "A dusty, boring coffin." "Then why'd you ask me?" "Yuck!" "What, are you a crazy person?" "Is it different when you're working with a first-time director?" "And what are the conversations you have then?" "Uh, yes, for me, it is." "Um, and I've worked with a few first-time directors, and it's always been a different experience." "And, um..." "For instance, on "Truth,"" "the film I just shot with Jamie Vanderbilt, because he was-- had been a scriptwriter, he had a very clear idea of story." "So our first conversations were about that." "And he also had a vision for the movie, so it was, you know, it was a great collaboration because it was about working out between us and, as Robert was saying, the production designer," "costume department, all the other departments, to service his story, and he's a really smart guy." "So, you know, we spent a lot of time preproduction working it out and but-- because he had a great idea about storytelling, then that," "I think is, you know, one of the most important things to start with." "Why didn't you ask me if the documents were real?" "Because I knew I didn't need to." "Hey." "Look, when you go back in there, you hold your head up, you understand?" "Yes, Dad." "Okay." "F-E-A." "(sniffles) F-E..." "Jamie, he came to me and said," ""I've got no idea about what I'm gonna do on set and about cinematography, so teach me that part of my job."" "I think-- Which is great, right?" "Yeah, it was." "Because he's been a writer, he's already been on set, but he's never been in that position to make those decisions, so what I did for him is, we started testing" "I showed him lenses and how the cameras were working and-- and so that when we got on set, he understood already, you know, the basic technical information that-- that I thought he needed to know." "And then we talked about lighting, obviously, and I shot tests to show him things." "Don't go away." "We'll be right back with more." "Welcome back to "Close Up with The Hollywood Reporter."" "We're talking with six visionaries behind some of the season's most buzzed-about films." "Now, Alwin, with "Steve Jobs," you shot the three acts, one in 16 millimeter, one 35, and then one digitally with the ARRI ALEXA." "Yeah. "Steve Jobs" was just fun to shoot." "I mean, it was one of the first ideas which came to my mind, that "Steve Jobs" was taking us to a digital age, and it was also partly that when you walked in these spaces," "these spaces are very sterile-- corridors lit by fluorescent lights and everything, and you kind of-- I think as a cinematographer, you don't go in these spaces, like, "Yeah, that's gonna be" "You know, that's gonna be delicious to kind of work with."" "You kind of go in there and think, that's like horrifying space, actually, to start with." "You know, I felt like the 16" "Apart from helping the story of, like, advancing it to the digital age," "I just thought it would also mirror the, you know, the spontaneity of the early Steve Jobs." "You know, I feel like the 16 mil., you can very easily sling it around, put it here, put on your shoulder." "It affects the way the Steadicam works." "The Steadicam is lighter and it feels a bit more sluggish to the Steadicam operator, so it feels a bit more spontaneous." "So there are certainly implications the technique brings with you." "But also, I thought, like, it helped these spaces where the grain was just giving it something more soulful or interesting than if I would have-- have shot it on digital, because digital, everything is sharp" "and everything is in focus, whereas the 16," "I think you were just looking more at the faces than if I would have shot it on digital." "You're trying to publicly paint me as a slut and a whore." "Believe me, I'm not trying to publicly do anything with you." "Two million people read "Time."" "How am I supposed to-- It would be more if they put me on the cover, but Dan Kottke decided to kidney punch me." "I applied for welfare yesterday." "(Steve) I'm sorry?" "I said, I applied for welfare yesterday." "The "Time" article said your Apple stock was worth $441 million." "And I wanted to ask you how you felt about that." "Danny, we haven't heard much about "Room" yet." "Tell us a little bit about the challenges of" "I mean, obviously, a large part of it takes place in a confined space." "How do you approach that?" "I mean, I think "Room" was interesting." "I mean, I was just looking at this table." "I don't think this would have fitted in the room." "Oh, wow." "So we kind of... right from the off made a really, really stupid choice, which is did it in a room pretty much the size of this table" "A bit bigger than the table, but without taking" "Was this a real room or was it on a set?" "It was on a set, but we just made a kind of choice never to be able-- never to take the wall down." "(Mandy) Wow." "So it's like, all-- all" "We-- we ticked every box of what not to do when making a film." "But I think those restrictions just put us in the place where we constantly trying to... reinvent the wheel and do something interesting in-- in a tiny space." "(woman) When I was a little older, when I was 17..." "I was walking home from school" "Where was I?" "You were still up in heaven." "But there was a guy, he pretended that his dog was sick" "What guy?" "Old Nick." "We call him Old Nick." "I don't know what his real name is." "But he pretended his dog was sick" "What's the dog's name?" "Jack, there wasn't a dog!" "He was trying to trick me, okay?" "There wasn't a dog." "Old Nick stole me." "I want a different story!" "No, this is the story that you get!" "(Stephen) How limited were you by the fact that you have a kid in all those scenes, and therefore, reduced hours?" "Well, yeah, I mean, so just to make life even more complicated, 'cause we were so restricted with these hours, we then thought one way to achieve what we needed to do was shoot two cameras with it all the time," "so you got two actors, two camera crews in a space not much bigger than this table." "What was the widest lens you used?" "Well, no, but that's what we found, is that," "I think, when you're in that situation, you end up being counterintuitive with it." "If you just put it on a wide lens, then you just" "It fills the frame and it looks like a big shed." "So what we're after is... trying to achieve a sense of claustrophobia, so you kind of end up doing the exact opposite of what you think might look good." "When you did "Black Mass,"" "did you talk to Scott Cooper about films like "The Departed,"" "like "The Godfather," that-- th-that both of you know well?" "Yeah, I think the movie that came out, uh... between Scott and I was the movies, like Coppola's movies, '70s movie." ""The Conversation" came up a lot, also." ""Godfather," first one, second one, came up a lot." "So, yeah, I mean, we are definitely influenced by that." "And when you're working with a star like Johnny Depp, how do you do things differently?" "I don't know we did anything differently, to be honest." "What I did pretty much was lit the set as a space." "And we didn't even particularly bring in diffusion, because it's Johnny." "I mean, also the character, too." "I mean, it was very appropriate that we left it kind of shadowy and even sometimes I don't even see his eyes, you know." "So I think it's nothing, you know, special." "I mean, we had great actors and, really, it was kind of" "It was a great position to be by the camera, to see, you know, witness the great performance." "It ain't rattin', Jimmy." "It's an alliance." "An alliance between me and the FBI?" "No, no." "Between you and me." "I can help you, Jimmy, and you can help me." "I'm not trying to clean up Southie." "I love this place." "I'm interested in the North End." "I'm interested in the mafia, and I bet you are, too." "Both movies, "Black Mass" and "Spotlight,"" "both movies are set in Boston." ""Black Mass" we shot in Boston, and "Spotlight," we shot in, actually, Toronto." "We went back to, you know, Boston a few weeks." "But I mean, Boston, Toronto, excellent crew, you know, and it was, I think that both shoots actually really smoothly-- went really smooth." "You had a lower budget on "Spotlight," though." "How did that affect what you did?" "From my point of view," "I don't think budget actually does matter." "You always come up with some ideas, you know, and there's always solutions." "So, yes, you can make "Spotlight" with $1.00, you know." "I mean, you gotta have talent and all that stuff." "But I think it was enough, you know, enough." "And then that limitation is the one that took us to Toronto." "Limitation is the one that took us to certain format." "You know, the way that we shoot." "And I think that's also the relationship." "Our art is not just..." "we can do anything." "I think it's something that-- I won't say compromise, but it's more about, you gotta come up with your ideas, you know?" "You have to force yourself to the point that you come up with something original." "(Linus) You always strive higher, too." "I think you always want to make it better." "Whatever budget, I assume, like, you want to always step it up anyway." "Yeah." "(Alwin) I think there always needs to be something which slightly scares and challenges your intellect." "Yeah." "Coming up, who taught the top cinematographers their secrets?" "Welcome back to "Close Up with The Hollywood Reporter."" "We're getting insider secrets from Hollywood's acclaimed cinematographers." "Who taught you the most?" "You started with Oliver Stone, um..." "You did a lot with him." "What did you learn from him?" "Uh, to appreciate the work." "I think that element which everyone speaks about, which is how important the script is to you, is the most important thing, we all know." "I also look really, firstly, at the director." "I want to know what the director has and if he's this kind of character, like, such as Marty, who also is very devoted to the word, but also a strong visualist." "(Stephen) Yeah." "Why did that period of working with Oliver come to an end?" "I took a Marty movie." "Ohh..." "And-- his film got delayed, and so I took Marty's because his got delayed, and then..." "It could have fit, but he felt it was a betrayal." "And a betrayal is sort of, there's one line, there's just..." "You're either on this side or this side." "Oh, wow." "So that ended it." "Although, we did come back together to do "Pinkville."" "And I wanted to work with him and I even wanted to work with him when he wasonna do the second "Wall Street."" "I said, "Why didn't you hire me?"" "And he said, "Because you have too much fire in the belly."" "(Stephen) Huh." "He and I would have friction." "Yeah, yeah, what-- He was like a bad brother." "That's interesting-- I mean, Oliver has friction with a lot of people, so I wouldn't think that's necessarily" "Oh, no, it's a great pleasure, I love it." "He's like a brother." "Huh." "But he" " He is-- He can be brutal." "I" " I nearly died on a number of occasions with him as a director." "Oh, wow." "Mandy, who-- How about you?" "Who taught you the most?" "Um, I think I've learned different things from different directors." "Um, I suppose I learned a lot from Baz Luhrmann when I did "Australia." Yeah." "One of the most important things I learned from him is, he said to me, "You have to be a general."" "Because I was running a lot of different units, and my department was, you know," "100 people, and I'd never done that before." "And so he said, "You're not just an artist."" "And because" " I am an artist, but he said," ""You also have to consider yourself as a general, and there are two parts you have to play in very important-- especially on a bigger film." "And that's what he taught me." "And are you comfortable being a general?" "Yes." "I am." "(Stephen) Okay, good." "Yeah. (laughing) Yeah, no." "What was the hardest thing about becoming a general?" "Well, it's about delegating and I think that before," "I'd always operated on films and it was about-- to keep the vision consistent, and keep, you know, the lighting department and the pre-lighting and the rigging and everything, to be able to delegate and feel comfortable" "that those people understand what your... requirements are." "And now that we're, you know, in a digital age, um, you know, the filmmakers, the studios can literally change anything about your work in post-production." "How does that help your job and how does that challenge you?" "The weird thing that's happening at the moment is..." "So we can shoot digital." "And there's this move to get bigger and bigger cameras, bigger and bigger resolution, bigger and bigger cinemas, and there's this kind of misreading where people are watching films on their phones now." "So we're striving for these fantastic, epic images..." "Mm-hmm." "And, you know, huge percentages of people who are watching the film are gonna watch it on a screen that size." "And how do you feel when you see people watching your movies on a phone?" "Conflicted." "I think it's just" "You know, it's an impossible situation when, you know, it's just-- it's the audience is kind of just sort of fragmenting, in a way." "And because this past year, especially, there's been so much attention on keeping film alive, what are your thoughts on what's happening right now?" "Is enough being done?" "I mean, I still love film, and I still feel like when I work with film, that I can induce something more soulful, and feel I can express myself better." "I feel like there's something" "You folks were a huge influence when I was a camera student at the NFTS, and I saw all these overexposed Super 8 and stuff like" "For me, that was the revol-- the revolution as a writer." "I love to do all these kind of experiment, and I really" "I loved experimenting myself, you know, when I got the opportunities, so I feel like the expression is-- for me, these films, the spectrum is still so much more bigger, you know, and I" "Well, I think the problem-- the problem in London is that the infrastructure around making film plausible is slowly falling away-- that's the tragedy." "So all the technicians who support work at the lab and have, you know, years and years of knowledge, that's just evaporating." "So-- The technicians are fading away." "Yeah, yeah, it's-- You know these" "(Linus) Still kind of need the film, you know, it's" "We still need it around in order to keep it artistic enough to give us tools enough to work with because the medium is a really important tool." "Whether it is digital or film." "Maybe digital is better for certain films." "And maybe Super 8 is better for certain films." "And it's a huge limitation to not have the option to choose medium, you know." "But becomes how to fight, right, because..." "Yeah, but-- but-- We're being told, it's like, "Oh, film is more and more expensive."" "So you need, like, some actors who is just as passionate about it as-- as-- as we are, and say," ""No, no, we want-- We are going to make it work somehow."" "You taught me a really interesting thing, somebody" "In order to be able to shoot on film, you lost the position on your crew, right?" "Yeah, on, um, "Tracks."" "(Stephen) For "Truth"?" "No, on "Tracks."" "A film I" " No, "Truth" was shot on ALEXA." "Um, on "Tracks," a fm I did with John Curran, he was so passionate about us shooting film out in the desert, you know." "He really wanted to shoot 35 mil. anamorphic." "He had his-- first discussion I had with him, he said that's wh he wanted to do, and the numbers kept coming back, saying it was too expensive 'cause we had to ship the neg. out, and, in fact," "it was the last film to go through Deluxe in Sidney, in Australia-- it closed down after this." "But he let go of the script supervisor position to be able to shoot on film." "And that's an important position, wow." "That's interesting." "Yeah, well, we all just had to... deal with it." "The editor was on board and the camera department took more notes, and, uh, that was the sacrifice that he made." "Did you have those conversations with "Truth"?" "Uh, no, in fact, um... from our very early discussions," "Jamie had said to me he felt that digital was the right way to go because we could do long takes, basically." "And, uh, and also, most of the film is set in offices and boardrooms and not so much day exteriors, and I felt that it was the right decision." "More with the industry's most sought-after cinematographers when we come back." "Welcome back to "Close Up with The Hollywood Reporter."" "We're talking with the cinematographers behind the year's standout films." "Have any of you walked off a film because you disagree with the vision?" "Danny?" "No." "(laughter)" "I walked off a film as an assistant, but..." "Oh." "Why?" "'Cause it was really, really boring." "I was a clap-loader." "Huh." "And, it's just-- Life is too short." "It was just a really-- It was" "I was kind of always quite pleased with myself in the sense that I just had reached the point where I could not go on." "Huh." "Did you then land another job?" "No, I didn't work for quite a while." "Oh, wow." "(laughter)" "Were you still pleased with yourself?" "I think those are the, uh..." "The graph went downhill." "What about you, Alwin?" "I had a standoff once with a director, actually, where we-- but I like, Michael Winterbottom." "It was my second film." "It was like a year after my first film, "Ratcatcher,"" "which, you know, I walked away from "Ratcatcher" to thinking," ""Oh, that's bloody nerve-wracking filmmaking,"" "and I was very unexperienced." "We were all like first-time HODs." "Threatened at various points to get fired on set." "And I just walked into this new film and there was this standoff just that" "There was one scene where apparently I used too much lights, you know, a night exterior." "Michael Winterbottom wanted to shoot and Danny" "And Michael said, like, you know, the" "In three days, we have got this bar scene coming up." "It was period, for most-- little oil lamps." "And he wanted just to use available light and I said," ""Michael, it's not going to work." "You're just going to see a sea of little dots."" ""No, no, we're gonna test it again" ""and we just add more lights and it's gonna be fine." "We'll just use available lights."" "And I was fortunate enough that I had a test to show him that it didn't really work, but I felt so exasperated at this point that I said," ""Look, if filmmaking is that nerve-wracking, it's probably not for me."" "And I said, "Look, you know, if" ""if that's the way you want to do it, you're probably better off to find a documentary guy."" "And-- and-- and it was good that, you know," "It was the first time I really had to stand up and just say" "Because I really, truly believed it wouldn't work, and" "And then they-- we came back at the negotiation table and we negotiated how I would light it and how many lights I would use." "So that was an interesting experience for me as a young cinematographer." "What did you learn from that?" "Well, I-- I guess you learn, to some degree, you have to" "I think all HODs, I think that's also the same with production designers," "I think we all truly have to try to understand what the director tries to achieve and how he's trying to achieve it, but I think we all agree that I don't think that's always the case and to always find every aspect, so I think" "I think our job is also, like, to really support completely the vision, but also be the devil's advocate." "There should be some friction," "I think, with all good creativity." "I agree." "Masa, should there be friction?" "I think so." "You know?" "You seem very nice." "Have you had friction?" "Mmm, not really." "But inside, yes." "You know, internally, probably." "I don't, you know, take it externally, but" "But I think those friction, I think there will be" "In a sense, it's a good challenge, right?" "So..." "(Danny) I always think it's" "It's not necessarily friction." "I think you want to be working with directors who are always gonna push you... 'cause you can very-- it's the sort of thing where you could tread water quite happily." "But it's also our job to, I think, um, fight for the film, for the best of the film." "You know, like, if you fight for the best of the film, it could be that you're right, you know?" "Even" " And if the director and you have that collaboration, you could have those fights about what is best right now for this and" "But I think being in an uncomfortable place by a director kind of saying," ""What I'm after is this," and constantly pushing the boat out." "I think that's where you end up producing stuff that you can surprise yourself that you're capable of." "Where did Tom Hooper put you in this film that wasn't your comfort zone?" "Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of-- a lot of the time, it's 'cause he's always" "One of the things he's always passionate about is big, big wides, and then never really giving you the time to light close-upsso you've got to come up with a solution where you can jump from a wide to tight as quickly as possible" "and kind of make things work in, you know, in the best sort of visual style that you're trying to sort of..." "Danny, I recently interviewed Tom Hooper, and he said you're a real maverick on set." "Yes." "So what-- what makes him say that?" "I" " I think, weirdly, I think what's interesting about working with him is he's-- he" "I think he might say I'm a maverick, but I think he's an anarchist, which is potentially slightly worse." "'Cause he's always gonna throw something at you that is completely unexpected." "So I think I just feed off that, that-- to-- to never be certain what might turn up that day." "In a way, you can always do as much prep as-- as you can get and be totally prepared for certain scenes, and, uh, it's necessary, but I think sometimes you can prep interesting situations to" "out of existence, and I think there's an area which is a gray kind of place where things happen that you never, ever are going to expect." "It might be weather, or it" "Any number of things that impact on the day's work." "Mandy, would you call yourself a maverick?" "I suppose." "I mean, I-- like-- like Danny was just saying, I like to have a challenge." "I mean, I did a film called "Jane Got a Gun,"" "where I had to take over from Darius Khondji, and I had no prep and I had to walk in on the first day" "I'd never met the director before-- and say," ""Hi, I'm Mandy, what are we doing?"" "And which director was it?" "Because, um" "It was Gavin O'Connor." "Right, Lynne Ramsay exited." "That's before you came in, right?" "Yes." "So Darius exited with Lynne." "Yes." "How on earth did you do that?" "Well, that's where I" "I was actually really excited about it becausI suppose I'm in a position in my career where I feel comfortable about, you you know, working on the fly and making decisions really quickly, and really, both of us, like, Gavin and I," "he can think really quickly, and so once we kind of had very quick discussion about what the film was and the story that he wanted to tell for this script, and the script, he'd change a lot during the shooting," "was I just worked from here, you know?" "I just worked from my experience and also just a gut feeling about what was right for the situation." "Uh, Masa, what is the greatest challenge for you of being a cinematographer?" "What's the toughest part of it?" "Uh, to me, the ta-- toughest part is, to et the material." "I wish every script that I received is a good story, something that I can commit to, but it's not like that, unfortunately, so... yeah." "I think, to me right now, at this point of my life," "I think the toughest part is to meet with the material, you know, the story, so..." "To find good material." "Yeah, exactly." "Huh." "I think I'm the same." "It's about the script." "I think that comes before any of the work, any of the technology or whatever." "I think a great script can only be made better by a good cinematographer." "But you can have terrible cinematography but a fantastic script, and it can still be an amazing film, so it's" "In a sense, it all begins with the quality of the script." "What's the biggest mistake you've made as cinematographers?" "Bob..." "Uh, signing on to certain films I shouldn't have made." "You took your name off one film." "Why?" "Hmm." "Uh..." "(laughter)" "You knew I was gonna ask you that question, right?" "I kinda knew you were gonna do that, yeah." "Um, I took my name off "World War Z,"" "because I worked-- It was a digital show." "We worked very hard in coming up with lookup tables, and I was" "I was advancing three, four, five, six, seven LUTs on a shot, and I had to go back to the trailer and do it after every scene, I'd go back as often as I could." "And I'd combine them to find a new look." "And even between shots, I'd change the lookup tables." "And they were pretty radical and" "But they were the look that the studio had also agreed upon." "There was no disagreement from the studio, nor the director." "He and I were pretty much-- very similar mind, Marc Forster." "And what ended up resulting was that they basically dropped it all." "And Paramount released it." "They dropped what, the lookup tables?" "All the lookup tables." "So they'd show their own lookup tables." "And then a little later, they decided they're gonna release it in 3D." "And I felt, as a cinematographer," "I was at a point in my life where, okay," "I think you have to take some strength for all of us that can't do that." "Like, all right, so you got" "Paramount's gonna be angry with me." "It's gonna result in conflict." "I decided I was going to take that conflict on, basically because so many other people should be protected, and no one was protecting us." "The truth is that a lookup table can be changed by anybody." "And your look, no matter how hard you struggle at something, can be something completely different." "And that doesn't matter, whether it's cinematographers or costumes" " I can change the color of any costume" "I choose to change, and so can the studio." "So if the studio has the right to change your things, you hope that you have some artistic, uh, position that you can battle them, and we don't have any artistic position." "There's no legal position we can take." "What are the consequences of taking your name off a film?" "I haven't seen Paramount send me one script in a few years, so I suspect..." "Don't worry, those executives will all change pretty soon, so... (laughter)" "Welcome back to "Close Up with The Hollywood Reporter."" "We're here with six of Hollywood's most sought-after cinematographers." "What are some of your favorite shots or scenes on film?" "Not necessarily your own films." ""Conformist."" "(Stephen) Oh, uh, Storaro." "(Robert) Of course." "The great one." "Is he?" "(laughing) Yeah." "For me, it was "Apocalypse Now."" ""Apocalypse Now" is one of mine, too." "I still love that Coppola was such a great master of knowing editing, music, sound." "And although there are some things which are complete priority to the actors and some things which are completely visually told, you know." "To me, that was certainly one of the films which made me want to become a cinematographer." "I was just blown away by what these guys did." "Storaro had a great run in there." "Yeah." "You know, he had "Reds,"" "he had different directors, you know..." "Coppola." "I read this interesting-- I read this interesting story about Storaro, that, I think it was his first Hollywood film." "And..." "I think he only ordered one generator." "He didn't realize he could have ordered three generators, and so that's why he had to think so hard about," ""Yeah, I can run this light there, but I can't run this light."" "And I think because he was so good with that limitation, something incredible happened to him." "Yeah, 'cause you have "One From the Heart" as well." "Mm-hmm, yeah." "(Mandy) Yeah, amazing film." "(Carolyn) Masa, what about you?" "What are some of the scenes or-- inspired you?" "I think, yeah, the Francis Ford Coppola's movie, like, "The Godfather," the first one." "(Stephen) Gordon Willis." "Yeah." ""The Conversation," also." "Uh, Coppola, also." "I think those movies, like '70s movie I like a lot." "Danny?" "tan,"is an amazing-looking film." "(Robert) But it's hard not to say Marty" "Yeah." "(Stephen) Is there one image from any film that you take to the grave with you?" "Well, that would probably be something from "Citizen Kane."" "(Stephen) Huh." "I think what he did with..." "You know, I can" " I see so many of those images." "(Stephen) Gregg Toland, right?" "Yeah." "Yeah." "There's so many." ""The Third Man."" "I think one of my favorite films is "The Third Man,"" "is you kind of watch it, try and get your head round what they were doing at that time, with the equipment, with the film stock." "Hard to imagine how you'd actually achieve it." "But for me, it's still also, like, this simple image in "Apocalypse Now" of Marlon Brando coming in and out of-- of light." "You know, it was just-- How simple is that?" "And, you know, the actor used and understood the lighting as well and really used-- used the lighting." "I thought it was, like, sublime, you know." "(Danny) Yeah, yeah." "What's the hardest part about working with actors?" "(Danny) You know, I think what's changed a bit is that directors definitely like the freedom to let the actors do what they want, to come up with stuff that, again, might not necessarily be scripted." "So I think sometimes you have to light in more" "You're lighting spaces as opposed to sort of specific chairs or whatever, where the understanding is, anything could happen." "And I think that's sometimes really interesting, 'cause you get stuff that you would never predict." "Could you give us an example on one of your films this year?" "I mean, on "Room," I mean, I think we kind of went in with that notion just because, uh, Jake is" "He was, I think he was seven when we shot it, so trying to pin him down to anything would have been, I think, exceptionally unfair." "And so giving the kid the freedom to just do what he was gonna do or what he felt like doing, meant I think you get a much more au-authentic performance." "What was your experience on "Joy"" "with your actors and actresses?" "Well, we-- we shot on "Joy," we worked very much" "I mean, Jennifer Lawrence was basically on set, um, every day, I think, yeah." "You obviously need to work with actors in a collaborative way and in a gentle way, I think, but it's nice to be able to show what your intentions are with a film, with the lighting and-- and-- and... already on camera tests as well." "like, establish a-- a relationship, but, um" "Do you have to light her a particular way?" "No, I mean, I also like to light the room a lot, you know?" "And like to work rather broad-stroked, in general." "And then different actors have different needs." "I mean, Jennifer looks gorgeous in basically any light, so, but then on "Joy,"" "apart from "American Hustle," where I worked with David," "(clears throat) we had a different approach." "He had a much more classic sort of one-directional idea about the film, where we lit it more noir, if you will, um..." "But I like to light the room in general, and then give, actually, the actors the space to move around in that room, and then sometimes you just need to ask them to be in a particular space, and, um..." "But I think the key to everything is to have such a relationship with the actors, um... on set that you feel, you know, a mutual respect for, like, you can talk about anything about those things, you know." "We-- because we're professional about things, and I find, like, normally on a set, you're very much like a family." "Coming up, we'll learn who the top cinematographers most want to work with." "Welcome back to "Close Up with The Hollywood Reporter."" "We're talking with the year's top cinematographers." "What's most misunderstood about your job as a cinematographer?" "No one has an idea what we do." "None." "I mean, I actually asked the driver that took me" "The taxi driver, and he don't-- he didn't know at all." "What did you tell him?" "I asked him, what is a cinematographer?" "And he was like-- He didn't have a clue." "And I asked him, what is a director of photography?" "He didn't know." "So what-- What do you tell people when they ask you that question?" "(chuckling)" "Yeah, it's-- I mean, it's hard." "You sort of have to explain the entire film being a big collaboration between different artistic people that has to collaborate, and everything comes out of a vision from the director, but, uh, that you have a sort of a mix" "of a technical and an artistic job, so..." "Mandy, what-- what is the most misunderstood thing, do you think?" "Well, I also think, 'cause I was an artist in residence at UCLA, and to my students..." "Yes." "you know, a couple of people have said to me," ""Well, don't you just make cool shots and don't you just sit there thinking of cool images?"" "And I said, "No, that's not what you're there for." "You're there to tell the story."" "You're there to help the director tell a story and" "As Linus was saying, collaborate with other departments." "You're all there to tell the one story and to create-- help create a vision." "Mandy, as an example of that, why don't you talk about "Truth"?" "Because you really used the-- the lighting, the camera to show what Mary's experiencing during the course of the film." "Yeah, well, that was our intention from the start." "We always wanted to make it very subtle, the way that the camera was, you know, not draw attention to ourselves, in "Truth."" "And, uh, because there's a lot of people talking in very small rooms, and there's a lot of dialogue." "And so at the beginning of the film, when they're putting the story together and we're introducing the characters, it's much lighter, and there's a little bit more color, and the camera moves quite a bit." "And there's a few unmotivated camera moves that kind of take you from one place to another." "And then as the story turns and Mary's becoming questioned and the bloggers are questioning the story and the validity of the documents that were used as evidence, where you stop the camera moving and the lighting cha" "It's very subtle, but there's a little bit more contrast." "We put Mary in the center of the frame or we lessen the depth of field, and by the end of the movie, when she's in the panel that are making the inquiry from CBS about how she put the story together," "we had almost black room and everybody had black clothing and it was all about faces." "And then we only moved the camera" "Like, there was a lot of people in the room, there was about 20 people in the room, but we only moved the camera twice." "and it was when she was making her end speech, and then" "So we felt that we wanted to make an impact with the camera rather than people being aware of it all the time." "And same with the lighting." "(Carolyn) We're running out of time, but we wanted to hit on two more topics quickly." "The first one is, increasingly, we're using" "CG and green screen, not just for quote-unquote "visual effects driven" films, but in an invisible way." "Um, what are your thoughts and when do you like to use these techniques for your own movies?" "Oh, I mean, I" "I think" " I love directors who really try to avoid it themselves." "You know, like, who think of every possible way of avoiding it, because I think, you know, when you spend a week in front of a green screen," "I think it drains the energy of everybody, especially the actors, because you don't respond of-- ideas of, you know, how the lens can skim surface and how you might use the focus, because of-- you're responding to a real environment." "So I personally... really not fond of it, but... (Linus) It's a compromise, always." "Sometimes like a compromise for stunts or for safety." "You have to do it sometimes." "But if it's not a-- If you can do it in another way, it's much better to do it in camera, 'cause it's going to look much better." "I wish there were two categories, for Academy Awards and for ASC." "Yeah, I agree with that." "I think we-- we need to get out of" "We're in the wrong space now." "There's films that are shot relatively normal, with "X" percentage of visual effects, and then there are films that are shot all visual effects with very minimal real time." "And yet, they're put in the same categories, which is an impossible category to beat." "I mean, I love Chivo." ""Gravity" was shot, you know, with brilliant ideas in mind, but it's a visual effects film." "Mm-hmm." "You know, and so was, uh" "Well, there's a number of films that we all know that all won visual effects, 'cause they're visual effects films." "You don't get those shots-- They used to have one for black and white and one for color." "(Stephen) Yes." "Yes, that's right." "So let's change it." "I agree, I agree." "They should have two different ones for" "Because I don't-- I don't think anyone" "I know people that actually thought in "Life of Pi,"" "they really got those shots of the-- of the whales." "Really?" "They got the shot of the whales, did they?" "Excellent." "Yeah, absolutely so." "And then there is films where they actually shoot-- shoot whales like that." "And they shoot them." "I think there should be two categories to even it out." "Okay, last question." "Um, what director, living or dead, would you like to have worked with and why?" "I would love to have worked with Hitchcock." "I think he is such a huge" "To me, he's just such a huge mystery somehow, how he" "He's just such a unique guy." "He's like no one else." "I don't know, or is he?" "I think he's-- He would be" "It would have been amazing to work with him." "Billy-- Billy Wilder." "Oh, yeah." "I think I'm" "Grew up watching all his films," "Sunday afternoon telly, and of all the stuff I used to watch, every time one of his came on, you think, "That's amazing."" "Yeah." "Masa, how about you?" "(Carolyn) Masa..." "I'll say David Lean." "Mmm." "Yeah." "(Alwin) I like Paul Thomas Anderson." "He's alive." "(laughter)" "That's a message for him." "Yeah." "(Mandy) I was gonna say Wim Wenders, 'cause a big influence on my career was those films that he was doing with Robby Muller when I was growing up." "Mm." "I would like Bergman." "(Stephen) Mmm." "Good, I want to thank all of you very much for taking part in "Close Up with The Hollywood Reporter."" "Thank you." "(all) Thank you." "Really excellent." "♪"