"# Oh, I love to hear the song of creation #" "# The wind and the rhythm of the rain #" "# Oh, the thunder, it speaks of your power #" "# But there's something in the sound of the saints #" "# I've been washed in the roar of the ocean #" "# Found peace in the echoes of a cave #" "# And the trees of the field, they clap their hands #" "# But there's something in the sound of the saints #" "# From the lips of those you saved #" "# A redemption song will rise #" "# With a sound so full it cracks the sky #" "# Whoa, we sing hallelujah #" "# Whoa, we sing amen #" "# Hear the sound of the saints as we march onto Zion #" "# Singing hallelujah, amen #" "# Singing hallelujah, amen #" "# I will hear the chorus of the angels #" "# A forever symphony of praise #" "# I long to hear the voice of my Savior #" "# And he hears us the sound of the saints #" "# From the lips of those you saved #" "# A redemption song will rise #" "# Every tongue, every tribe hear the church, your bride #" "# Whoa, we sing hallelujah #" "Oh, I'm running late, oh." "# Whoa, we sing amen #" "# Hear the sound of the saints #" "# As we march onto Zion #" "# Singing hallelujah, amen #" "# Singing hallelujah, amen #" "# Whoa, whoa #" "# Our hearts will rise #" "# Our song shall be #" "# Jesus Christ, our Savior King forever #" "# Our hearts will rise #" "# The saints will sing #" "# Of Jesus Christ, our Savior King #" "# Forever, forever #" "# Whoa, we sing hallelujah #" "# Whoa, we sing amen #" "# Hear the sound of the saints as we march onto Zion #" "# Singing hallelujah, amen #" "# Hallelujah, amen #" "Brooke, we're all upset, but we need to move on." "Honey, you're a junior now." "It's your make-or-break year, so there's no room for self pity." "Can you give Marlene and I a ride to school today?" "I'm sorry, honey, I don't have time." "I have an 8:30 with Marc Shelley at White  Wolfe." "What?" "!" "Richard, you didn't say anything!" "How did you get the meeting?" "It's just a meeting, so don't get too excited." "But it could be huge." "I know!" "Who's going to the meeting with you?" "Hey, I got the meeting." "I know, I just think maybe you should take Melinda or Janice." "Janice?" "You want me to take Janice?" " Yeah, why not?" " I'm not taking Janice." " Rough morning?" " You know my parents." "Maybe they just need a little more time." "I don't know about that." "I'd say they're pretty over it." "My mom's making tacos tonight." "I'll let her know you're coming." "It's not like they'll miss me." "Brooke, I'm serious, honey." "You need to get focused or you could say," ""Good-bye Stanford, hello Somewhere State."" "Got it." "Yikes." "Good morning!" "Morning, Grace." "I keep telling you, you don't have to keep doing this." "Are you kidding?" "This is the best part of my day, Gramps." "Pills first." "You're a good girl." "Ah, honey, you know I'm not gonna be around here forever, and you might wanna start thinking about some other guy you wanna have breakfast with." "I'll work on that." "Okay." "You know, I love the way you do the oatmeal, but what do you say" "I take you out for bacon and eggs this morning, my treat." "Not after your last cholesterol test." "Besides, I have some papers I have to grade before the staff meeting." "I'm 81 years old, and bacon is not gonna be what kills me." "Nice try, you're 82." "Yeah." "Good morning." "Have a nice day." "Morning, ladies." "Morning." "Good morning." "Hey, what do you call a teacher with no students?" "Unemployed." "I got it, how about ecstatic?" "You're both right." "Retired!" "Only 36 days to go!" "You know you're gonna miss the kids when you're gone, Rizzo." "No, Grace." "That's sweet, but no, I won't." "The older I get, the more difficult these kids are to deal with." "I totally agree." "Yesterday, I just about snatched at Tim Webster." "That boy had me on my last nerve." "Well, I happen to think that difficult students can be a blessing." "Grace, honey, when is this optimism ever gonna wear off?" "Bill." "Bill." "Bill." "Junk mail." "Oh, man!" "David, why are you always so sad?" "Hey!" "You're back!" "Why are you back?" "My pastor gave me permission to finish my doctorate at Hadleigh, so if that's okay with you, I'm gonna be here for awhile." "Oh, David, you are a mess." "What happened to you?" "I woke up." "Okay, for 500 points, for all the cheese, for the game." "This quote is from what document?" ""We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal," ""that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these..."" "Boom, baby!" "All right, Team 1, what's your answer?" "Our answer is the Declaration of Independence." "That's... correct!" "Team 1 wins!" "Yes!" "Okay, you guys," "Monday we will examine the assertion of individual rights through the last century." "Have a good weekend." "Brooke, are you okay?" "I'm fine." "Are you sure?" "Yeah, thanks." "Ms. Ryan?" "I lied." "Are you sure you're being fair?" "Trust me, they're over it, and they expect me to be over it, too." "It's like to them, he never even existed." "The only thing that I know for sure is that I'm never going to see my brother again." "Everybody's asked if there's anything that they can do." "The truth is, no one can do anything because the only thing that I really want is 5 more minutes to tell my brother how I really felt about him." "Did your brother believe there was something more?" "I don't know." "Do you?" "Brooke, every person reaches a point in their life when they ask themselves this question." "There's nothing wrong with you asking it, too." "You never let anything get to you." "How do you do that?" "Jesus." "Hello?" "How'd it go, Amy?" "Michael." "It's gone." "My cancer's... it's gone." "Oh, my goodness!" "That's incredible!" "I know." "I just..." "I can't believe it." "Isn't that what you prayed for?" "Yes, of course." "I just..." "Prayer is a powerful thing, and it turns out God has much bigger plans for you." "You okay, Grace?" "Yeah, I just can't stop thinking about Brooke." "You know, she's searching." "She's hurting." "Yeah, that's the thing about atheism." "It doesn't take away the pain;" "It just takes away the hope." "What'd you tell her?" "The truth." "Now she's free to make her own choice." "Unfortunately, in this day and age, people seem to forget that the most basic human right of all is a right to know Jesus." "Let's put her on the prayer list." "Prayer always seems to be the last thing we do, when it should be the first." "Now, how 'bout some more popcorn?" "With a glycemic index of 100, not a chance." "I swear, Grace, if you don't start feeding me better," "I'm gonna leave you for a nursing home." "Well, that's it for me." "I'm going to bed." "Love ya." "I love you better." "Love you first." "That's unfair." "Gotcha!" "Brooke, the people from that charity place are here to pick up your brother's things." "Can you make sure they get everything?" "And don't forget to put the milk away!" " Well, that's the last of it." " Thank you." "And, well, I was loading one of the boxes onto the truck," "I noticed this and I thought you might wanna keep it." "So sorry for your loss." "And so, peaceful nonviolence comes first in India under Gandhi, and then later, here in the United States under Dr. King and others as a means of achieving civil rights." "But what makes nonviolence so radical is its unwavering commitment to a nonviolent approach, not just initially, but in the face of escalating persecution by the opposing force." "Yes?" "Isn't that sort of like what Jesus meant when he said that we should love our enemies?" "Yes." "The writer of the Gospel of Matthew records Jesus as saying, "You have heard it said," ""love your neighbor and hate your enemy," ""but I tell you, love your enemies" ""and pray for those who persecute you, that you will be children of your Father in heaven,"" "which indicates a commitment to nonviolence." "Dr. King confirmed the link, describing his inspiration from Scripture, saying Christ furnished the spirit and motivation, while Gandhi furnished the method." "Except that that didn't work." "Jesus got himself killed and everybody knows that." "Well, so did Dr. King." "So, I guess it just depends on how you measure success." "Both men created movements that survive to this day, even though both paid the ultimate price for their commitment to their ideals." "I still wouldn't do it." "Well, not very many people have that kind of courage." "But I, for one, am grateful for those that do, you know, those who stand up for what they believe." "Have a good day." "Are you Pastor Dave?" "I am." " I'm Martin Yip." " Nice to meet you." "My friend Josh Wheaton said you might be able to answer my questions about God." "Well, that definitely falls within my job description." "How many questions have you got?" "So far, 147." "Is something wrong?" "No." "Josh encouraged me to write them down and be as comprehensive as possible." "Of course he did." "Well, I'll have to thank him next time I see him." "Come on." "So, what's your first question?" "Grace, I just have to hear it from you." "Did this happen?" "If you're asking whether I responded to a student's question, yes." "If you're asking whether her question and my answer both referenced Jesus as it was relevant to the history lesson we were discussing, again, I'd have to say yes." "Good afternoon, Ms. Wesley." "I've asked Bob Fessler to sit in, he's the school's attorney, to advise us on any legal issues we might be brushing up against." "Should I have a lawyer, too?" "No, I don't see the need for that." "Ms. Rizzo is present as your union representation." "Okay." "We are here to hear your side of the story." "Now, I understand a student in your second period history class asked a question about the parallels between the teachings of Gandhi and remarks allegedly made by Jesus." "Yes, that's correct." "And your answer incorporated specific detailed reference to those teachings that included Scripture itself, the words of Jesus." "Yes." "What were you thinking, Grace?" "Do you believe your response was in line with district policy?" "Yes." "As well as in compliance with state and federal guidelines?" "Yes, sir." "Well, Ms. Wesley, unfortunately for you," "I'm fairly certain the school board will disagree." "No, Coach, you're not hearing me." "No prayers." "No moments of silence." "Nothing." "It's tradition on the field." "Not on the field, not in the locker room, not in the parking lot for that matter." "Whatever you say." "Okay, thanks, Coach." "Come on in." "Hi, Brooke." "You wanted to see me?" "Ms. Wesley is currently under disciplinary review." "All of her classes have been reassigned until things are settled." "I don't want you to have any contact with her." "None whatsoever, either on or off school property." "Do I have any say in this?" "No, I've already discussed things with your father and he agrees." "Since when does my dad care?" "Brooke, the important thing for you to remember is you've done nothing wrong." "Neither did Ms. Wesley." "All she did was answer a question." "Ms. Wesley's answer was not in line with school policy." "Really?" "I mean, aren't we allowed to say what we believe?" "When did that change?" "I'm not gonna argue with you, and I don't want you discussing the situation with anyone." "Do you understand?" "Do you understand?" "Yes." "Grace?" "Are you..." "Tom Endler, your union-appointed attorney." "You don't look like a lawyer." "Thank you." "I'm not sure I meant that as a compliment." "I'm determined to take it as one." "Shall we sit?" "So, have you defended many teachers in disciplinary matters?" "Nope, you're my first." "Just hired on from the public defender's office." "Criminal law?" "No offense, but I'm not a criminal." "Don't be so sure of that." "Your kind of case makes everybody uncomfortable." "School boards, teachers, parents." "It makes them feel... yucky." "Yucky?" "Is that a technical legal term?" "You got a better word for it?" "Grace, I'm gonna level with you." "Nobody wants your case." "I drew it because I'm low man on the totem pole in a place where seniority means everything." "If, for whatever reason, you're not happy with me, you're on your own." "You're free to hire your own attorney out of your own pocket." "Educational law isn't exactly a common specialty." "So, what's the good news?" "I don't like to lose." "And I'm willing to fight for you." "Are you a believer?" "You mean a Christian?" "No, but I think that's an advantage." "Why?" "You're passionate about what you believe." "I mean, let's face it, it's why you're in trouble in the first place." "But it blinds you to the realities of procedure." "Okay." "Okay, what?" "Okay, I agree to let you represent me." " Good." " Good." "David, are you okay?" "Um, terrific." "There was a young man in here, brilliant kid, with no exposure to Scripture until a few months ago." "He came in with some questions." "147 of 'em to be exact." "I feel like I've been hit by a truck loaded with Bibles." "Big heavy ones with those thick covers." "Always be ready to give answer as to why you believe and the reason for your hope." "1 Peter chapter 3, verse 15." "Yes." "And where were you 4 hours ago?" ""Trust in the Lord with all your heart" ""and lean not on your own understanding." ""In all your ways, acknowledge him and he will make your paths straight."" "Father, I need you." "I can't do this alone." "I know that you're in control." "Please, give me the courage." "In Jesus' name, amen." "Call to order." "I assume Ms. Wesley understands that this board has the power to recommend any number of disciplinary actions, up to and including termination." "She does." "And this board should be aware that in the event of such termination, which we would view as both wrongful and without cause, she reserves all rights of redress." "I may have a solution." "There might be a way around all of this unpleasantness that would satisfy all parties." "A disciplinary notice in Ms. Wesley's file stating the school board's objections to her behavior, a response from Ms. Wesley confessing the inappropriateness of and apologizing for her actions, along with a pledge not to engage in similar discussion of Jesus in the future." "I'm confident that we can move forward on that basis." "No." "Grace..." "I can't." "I'd like to request a brief recess to have a word with my client." "Excuse me." "Grace, this is exactly what we were hoping for." "I mean, this is the part where you say you're sorry, thank your lawyer, go back to your classroom, pick up your life, and move on." " I can't do that." " Why?" "I gave an honest answer to a student's legitimate question in history." "Grace." "Grace, you don't wanna do this." "It's the wrong decision." "Is it?" "I mean, I would rather stand with God and be judged by the world than stand with the world and be judged by God." "I am not gonna be afraid to say the name "Jesus."" "I know her." "She's not gonna go for it." "How do we make this go away and not get blood on our hands?" "That's the easy part." "We let the ACLU do it." "They'll file suit against Ms. Wesley and if she is found liable, which she will be, then we fire her for cause." "But the school district will certainly be named as a codefendant." "We don't have the financial wherewithal to fight that." "They've already been in touch." "They aren't interested in punishing the school." "They want her." "Are you sure?" "Trust me." "They've been dreaming of a case like this." "While Ms. Wesley apologizes for any inconvenience her actions may have caused," "Ms. Wesley stands by her statements, and she does not retract or recant them, either in full or in part." "So noted." "Having little choice, this board recommends continued suspension, henceforth without pay, pending review by a court of competent jurisdiction to determine whether or not Ms. Wesley violated local, state, or federal guidelines." "This proceeding is adjourned." "The last thing we need is a bunch of religious fanatics protesting outside of our house." "We'll work to keep it out of the media for now." "But next year, when you're applying to all the colleges, you'll be able to tell the story of how Brooke was part of a landmark constitutional case concerning the separation of church and state." "And believe me, there is not an Ivy League admissions board that could resist that." "And think of the other children out there, innocent children who are subjected to their repressive belief system." "And not forgetting the financial opportunities." "Yes." "Ms. Wesley is an employee of the school board." "We win in court and we establish her misconduct as said paid employee, well, there's nothing that changes policy faster than a big, expensive settlement." "We're going to prove once and for all that God is dead." "Brooke is a minor." "As far as the court is concerned, she has no rights." "That simply means I won't be asking her to be a witness." "I feel supremely confident about this." "Okay." "Injunctive relief?" "They're asking that you be fired, plus revocation of your teaching certificate." "What?" "How am I supposed to..." "Plus attorney's fees." "Essentially, you'll lose everything." "Why are they doing this?" "They want to make an example of you." "To them, your beliefs are like a disease whose time has come and gone, sort of like smallpox, or polio, or the plague." "So, what do we do?" "We win." "Hey, what's going on?" "Brooke is exercising her right to protest." "Idiot." "Hey, shut up, loser." "At least she's standing for something." "Give me that." "Brooke, you need to stop this immediately." "Brooke, this is the last time I'm gonna tell you." "If you don't stop this right now, there are gonna be some consequences." "Actually, I don't think that there will, because this is a sidewalk, which is public property." "My dad's a lawyer." "Well, actually, this sidewalk is on school property." "I suggest you girls aren't late for class." "Yes, ma'am." "Hey, what are you doing?" "I'm just, you know, reading the paper while my laptop goes through my online jury orientation." "Well, shouldn't you be paying attention?" "Please remember, consumption of alcoholic beverages, nonprescription drugs, and weapons are prohibited in the courtroom." "Still, isn't it your civic duty?" "Theoretically, yeah, but Matthew 22:14." "Oh, "Many are called, few are chosen."" "Exactly." "Three hundred people show up, they sit around for 8 hours, and at the end of the day, they all go home, having not been selected." "Statistically, I have a better chance of being hit by lightning." "Gotta get some coffee." "All right." "It's called "voir dire."" "It means that we get a chance to eliminate any potential jurors that may have a bias against you." " Sir." " Oh!" "Thank you, sir." "So, how are you feeling?" "I'm good." "All right, well, this is a bit of an arduous process." "They bring all these jurors in." "It's gonna take the whole day, but I think this is where we can win the case." "All rise for the Honorable Judge Robert Stennis." "On the order of the matter of Thawley vs. Wesley, you may be seated." "So, it says here... what does it say?" "It says you're a psychic." "Yes." "Oh, do you know who's gonna win this case?" "No, don't answer that." "We're going to challenge this juror, Your Honor." "Ms. Bailey, what's your favorite TV show?" ""Pretty Little Liars."" "Peremptory challenge, Your Honor." "What is your favorite TV show?" ""Duck Dynasty."" "Peremptory challenge, Your Honor." ""Duck Dynasty."" "Ms. Smith, are you involved in any community or charitable organizations?" "Yes, the Salvation Army." "We'll accept this juror, Your Honor." "Juror number nine, you're a teacher." "I'm a retired teacher." "Ever have any disciplinary run-ins with the administration?" "Never." "Acceptable to the plaintiff, Your Honor." "Acceptable, Your Honor." "Peremptory challenge, Your Honor." "We'll take her, Your Honor." "Thank you, Mr. Cherry." "Preemptive challenge, Your Honor." "Number two just screams Marine." "I don't want him." "That would mean blowing our last challenge." "Well, we have no choice." "I mean, what part of "God, Country, and Corps" do you wanna put on that jury?" "What was your last paid position?" "Artillery Forward Observer, United States Marine Corps." "Peremptory challenge, Your Honor." "Thank you." "Your Honor, we'd like to challenge for cause." "Why is that?" "Oh, Your Honor, the man's an ordained minister." "Need I say more?" "The juror is excused." "Objection, Your Honor." "Basis, Mr. Endler?" "Discriminatory, Your Honor." "Peremptory challenges can not be used to discriminate against a certain class of juror based on race, ethnic background, religion, or gender." "And the fact that religious belief is tangential to this case doesn't change that." "Upon further reflection, I find the respondent's assertion is correct." "Sustained." "You're not her pastor, are you?" "No, Your Honor." "Your Honor, I must protest here." "Mr. Kane, now, you had a set number of peremptory challenges, all of which you have used." "Therefore, it's up to opposing counsel." "We accept him, Your Honor." "Welcome to the jury, sir." "Henceforth, juror number twelve." "I hope you enjoy your service to the community." "Better chance of being struck by lightning." "It amazes me how we, as human beings, think." "When I was battling for my life," "I was willing to hold onto anything, including God, even though I really didn't believe in him until that moment." "I was convinced that I felt him, but now that I'm officially in remission," "I find myself questioning everything." "So, effective immediately, this blog is the personal diary of one woman's exploration of faith on her own terms, cancer-free." "Hey, Martin." "How's it going?" "Very good, Pastor Dave." "Oh, please." "You sure?" "Well, it seems that for every question you answered, three or four more questions spring up." "Yeah, but that's a good thing, right?" "It's like what Einstein said about science." "Picture what you know like the light of a candle." "As the circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness around it." "So, I'm actually learning, even though I might not feel like it." "Yes, exactly." "Well, I've been studying the Beatitudes." "They're very hard, one might say impossible, to follow completely." "Here in Luke's account, Jesus says," ""Do unto others as you have them do unto you."" "But how is that possible?" "How can I react to the needs of everyone else the same as my own, even for one day, let alone my whole life?" "And how can I reconcile my inability to do so with Scripture?" "Yeah, those are good questions." "Okay, scoot over." "What is that, Luke?" "Yes, 6:20." ""And Jesus said to his disciples, 'You who are poor are blessed" ""'because the kingdom of God is yours." ""'You who are now hungry are blessed 'because you will be filled." ""'You who now weep are blessed because you will laugh." ""'You are blessed when people hate you, when they exclude you," ""'insult you, and slander your name as evil because of the Son of Man."'" "You can't win." "Thanks." "I'll take that under advisement." "Oh, come on, you know I'm right." "I mean, why do it?" "Why go through this whole exercise, huh?" "Here, thanks." "You know, I looked up your history." "You're better than this." "You were third in your class at Stanford Law." "You clerked for a judge on the Ninth Circuit." "Why you slumming like this?" "Maybe I believe that people that don't do anything wrong shouldn't suffer at the hands of the law." "You know what hate is, Tom?" "I'm not talking about the fairy tale stuff, I mean real hate." "I hate what people like your client stand for and what they're doing to our society, and Stennis does, too, even if he doesn't admit it." "Well, the jury doesn't hate her." "Ah, but that's the secret, Tommy." "They don't need to hate her." "They just need to see a tiny flaw in her, a half truth, a small inconsistency, just a little bit of doubt, and they'll find against her." "Nice shoes." "You ready?" "Come on." "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." "The first half of this passage is known as the establishment clause." "The second half is known as the free exercise clause." "Now, there has been an ongoing debate about what the role of government should be, because in practice, these two provisions are often in conflict, which is what brings us here today." "In the matter of Thawley vs. Wesley, is the plaintiff prepared to make its opening statement?" "We are, Your Honor." "Then proceed." "Ladies and gentlemen, in a jury of this size," "I'm imagining that there are, probably among your ranks, a few Christians." "Hopefully practicing ones, and that's a good thing, that's fine, because Christianity is not on trial here, even though my opponent will try to convince you that it is." "Nor is faith on trial." "Only Ms. Wesley is on trial here today." "Now, ask any 4th grader and they're probably familiar with the phrase," ""Separation of church and state,"" "and that is guaranteed to us under our laws." "The plaintiffs are the parents of a student in Ms. Wesley's class who was subjected to hearing the teachings of Jesus Christ being favorably compared to the teachings of Mahatma Gandhi." "We all know that Jesus is part of a particular religious tradition." "These parents, who are trying to raise their daughter to be a free thinker, free of any religious dogma, are wholly offended by what went on in that classroom." "And she, reciting the words that were allegedly attributed to Jesus, who allegedly lived 2,000 years ago, gave a clear and compelling indication of what she believes, what she supports, what she endorses." "Now, let me put it this way." "I don't mean to offend anyone who may be a Muslim here, and I do not want to slight the prophet of Islam, but if you were to ask me a question concerning the Quran, the sacred text of Islam," "and I could come up with the answer with great speed and accuracy, and I could quote the proper surah, or chapter, then it would be reasonable for you to infer that I was not only a follower of Islam," "but that I considered it to be superior to all other forms of religion." "If I did this in a house of worship, that would be fine." "But if I did it in an 11th grade classroom in a public school, that would be preaching, not teaching." "So, why?" "Why in the world are we here today?" "Why?" "Because Ms. Wesley refused to apologize, and that means that her true motivation in that moment in her classroom was to take an innocent question and turn it into an opportunity to preach, not teach." "If we grant Ms. Wesley the right to do that, and by extension, everyone else, to violate the law based solely on our own private beliefs, then our society will crumble." "I believe that." "So, I implore you, please do not set this precedent." "Do not." "The future of our republic depends on it." "What's going on?" "Brooke is exercising her right to protest." "Brooke, I need you to stop this immediately." "Brooke, this is the last time I'm gonna tell you." "If you don't stop right now, there are gonna be consequences." "Hey, Aunt Amy." "Hey, Marlene." "Yeah, I just saw the video, what's going on?" "So, you remember my friend, Brooke?" "Yeah." "Well, she got a teacher in trouble for asking her about Jesus." "What?" "Now she's not even supposed to talk about it and we can't even cover it in our school paper." "Is there any way that I could meet with her?" " The teacher?" " No, Brooke." "Mr. Endler, your opening statement." "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I have here a copy of the Constitution of the United States of America and its Bill of Rights, arguably the two most important documents in the history of our great nation." "But despite Mr. Kane's impassioned rhetoric, you know what you won't find in there no matter how hard you look?" "The phrase "Separation of church and state."" "That's right." "It's not in there, never has been, because that phrase comes from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson." "Now, ironically, Jefferson was writing to a Baptist congregation, ensuring them that they would always have the right to believe as they wished, free of government interference." "But lately, that phrase has been taken out of context and twisted and contorted to mean the exact opposite." "And one morning early this year, my client, Ms. Wesley, she woke up as usual, she drove to work at her job as a teacher at Martin Luther King High School, a place where she was Teacher of the Year." "Her lesson plan for second period A.P. history that morning, it didn't include any mention of God or Jesus." "She didn't have a Bible sitting on her desk in plain view." "She didn't start her class with a blessing." "She didn't lead her students in prayer." "No, all she did was answer a question, because that is what she gets paid to do." "Now, Mr. Kane will insist loudly and often that faith isn't on trial here, but that is exactly what is on trial, the most basic human right of all, the right to believe." "Mr. Kane's afraid." "He's afraid that you, the jury, the touchstone of common sense, might not agree with his tortured interpretation of the Constitution, that you might understand that my client has rights, rights that trump his agenda, and that in realizing that" "you will hold as I do that my client is guilty of no wrongdoing and innocent of any and all claims against her." "Thank you very much." "And now it's become this huge deal, and all she did was answer my question." "Why do you think your parents are doing this?" "Because my mom thinks it'll help me get into Stanford or one of the Ivys, and my dad thinks it'll help pay for it." "And nobody's asked you what you think?" "No." "So, are you gonna help her?" "I don't know." "I would at least like to talk to her." "Maybe I could help get her story out there." "Great, because everyone's telling me to stay out of it." "Do you always do what you're told?" "What is your heart telling you to do?" "Mr. Thawley, how did you feel when you found out that your daughter had been exposed to faith-based teachings in class?" "Well, it felt like we had been violated." "I mean, this was supposed to be a history class, not Sunday school." "My wife and I are free thinkers." "We're rationalists." "We believe in a non-theistic world view, and that's how we were trying to raise our daughter." "And did you discuss this incident with your daughter?" "Well, I tried, but it's hard discussing anything with kids that age." "She's 16." "Some of you know what that's like." "It's hard enough trying to maintain credibility as a parent without a teacher jumping in and arguing against your position." "Now, we trust the school not to overstep its bounds in terms of what is and what isn't appropriate." "Is that too much to ask?" "No." "Thank you, Mr. Thawley." "That's all, Your Honor." "Your witness, Mr. Endler." "No questions, Your Honor." "Next witness, Mr. Kane." "Mrs. Rizzo, did Ms. Wesley talk about faith issues on the school campus?" "All the time." "Everybody knows she's a Christian." "I don't think she'd chew a stick of gum without praying first." "It makes everyone feel awkward." "Thank you." "No further questions, Your Honor." "Your witness, Mr. Endler." "Mrs. Rizzo, you stated that Ms. Wesley talks about her faith all the time." "I'm curious, can you give me a specific instance?" "Well, not off the top of my head." "Well, has she, as far as you're aware, ever started her class with a prayer?" "No." "Has she ever asked anyone in the teacher's lounge to pray with her?" "No." "Has she ever asked you personally to pray with her?" "Objection, Your Honor." " No." " Cumulative." "The question has effectively been asked and answered." "Your Honor, Mrs. Rizzo's sworn testimony states that Ms. Wesley talked about her faith all the time, yet she's failed to cite a single instance." "I'm merely trying to discover some basis for her opinion." "Sustained." "Mr. Endler, we're done with this line of questioning." "Mrs. Rizzo, in the school's initial inquiry into this matter, you were Ms. Wesley's representative on behalf of the teacher's union, were you not?" "Yes." "And did you ever consider that your disapproval of her faith might taint your ability to represent her properly?" "Objection, speculative." "Sustained." "God bless you." "Careful, or you might end up on trial." "Mr. Endler!" "No further questions, Your Honor." "So, when are these religious zealots going to realize it's not only disrespectful of them to push their beliefs on others, in this case, it's actually illegal?" "This woman, this fundamentalist, used her position of influence as a teacher to fill the minds of our children with nonsense." "If you ask me, the religious extremists we need to worry about are the hard-core Christians." "How about we show up in force and show Ms. Wesley just exactly what we think of her proselytizing?" "Principal Kinney, what was the school district's final determination?" "Well, Grace has been suspended without pay pending the result of this trial." "Isn't it rather unusual, leaving it up to a third party to determine whether Ms. Wesley is fired?" "We've decided to accept the court's interpretation of wrongdoing either way." "No questions, Your Honor." "Your witness, Mr. Endler." "Ms. Kinney, can you tell me the full name of the high school over which you preside?" "Doctor Martin Luther King Junior Memorial High School." "I noticed that the name fails to mention" "Dr. King's title as Reverend Doctor." "It's his work in the field of civil rights that we prefer to highlight." "But that's the whole point." "You consider his faith and politics to be separate things, but I don't, and he certainly wouldn't have." "Objection, Your Honor." "Counsel is testifying." "Sustained." "Jury's instructed to ignore Mr. Endler's preceding remarks." "Ms. Kinney, are you familiar with Dr. King's letter from the Birmingham Jail?" "Yes, it's a seminal piece of civil rights history." "In that letter Dr. King makes numerous faith-based references, does he not?" "Offhand, I don't recall." "Allow me to refresh your memory." "He cites the example of the three youths from the book of Daniel who were tossed into the fiery furnace by King Nebuchadnezzar because they refused to worship him." "Elsewhere, he urges action with Jesus, and here I quote, "Extremist love."" "And in his speech, "I've Been to the Mountaintop,"" "he stated that he just wanted to do God's will." "Is this coming back to you now?" "Yes." "In your opinion, would Ms. Wesley, had she chosen to do so, have been allowed to present the examples that I just mentioned in her class?" "Objection, speculative." "I'm going to allow it." "Overruled." "Witness may answer." "No." "If it were up to me, she would not have been allowed." "Why not?" "Because those examples are too closely associated with faith." "In other words, they're facts, but they're just facts that are too dangerous for discussion?" "The word I would use would be "controversial."" "But aren't facts just facts?" "I mean, there's nothing controversial about 2 plus 2 equaling 4, or E equals MC squared, or the date man landed on the moon." "So, why the controversy about these facts?" "I think the fact that we're all here today speaks for itself." "Thank you for your honesty." "One last question." "In your orientation at the beginning of the semester, your memo to the staff stressed diversity and tolerance, did it not?" "Yes." "Well, would it be fair to say that except for Christianity, all other forms of diversity are welcome?" "Objection!" "Your Honor!" "I will withdraw the question." "Mr. Endler, you seem to have a penchant for injecting commentary where it doesn't belong." "You would do well to avoid further provocation of this court." "I apologize, Your Honor." "I'll look to curtail it in the future." "Redirect, Your Honor?" "Ms. Kinney, I understand that you attended a service at Ms. Wesley's church a short while ago." "Is that correct?" "Yes, that's correct." "It was an event honoring several students who attend that church for their community service." "Mm-hmm." "And who was it that invited you to that service?" "Grace Wesley." "I see." "And where were you when this invitation was extended?" "At my office." "On school grounds?" "Yes." "During work hours?" "Yes." "Thank you." "Oh, one last question." "Is it true that Ms. Wesley accepts donations for a faith-based charity, Convoy of Hope, right there in the classroom?" "Yes, she does." "Thank you again." "No further questions, Your Honor." "You may step down, Mrs. Kinney." "Court's adjourned." "Grace, can I ask you a question, off the record?" "Sure." "These people, they're looking to destroy you, and I don't just mean financially." "Do you think it's worth it?" "I hope so." "So do I." "Fishy and cheesy at the same time." "David, this tuna melt is exquisite." "Oh, yeah, exquisite." "It's the provolone." "That was my idea." "I love what it does to the flavor of the fish." "Don't I know you?" "You're from Blaze's Car Rental, right?" "Oh, yeah." "Yeah, that gig didn't really work out for me." "I don't think customer service is my forte." "So, you decided to become a waiter?" "Well, this is where I do my dinner theatre." "In the mornings I serve up croissants." "In the evenings I serve up Chekhov." "Oh." "Hey, listen, sorry about the whole car not working thing." "It's okay." "I learned my lesson." "He bought a Prius." "Starts every time." "Oh!" " Same guy." " Same guy." "Amazing." "Gentlemen, I don't wanna spoil your brunch, but I'm hearing from a friend of mine in the prosecutor's office about a subpoena that just came down demanding that we submit copies of our sermons for the last 3 months for review." "Can they do that?" "They tried it in Houston." "So, now the government can determine what we can and can't preach at our churches?" "Let's not overreact." "I'm sure there's no ill intent here." "Unfortunately, I think this is just the beginning." "We've been ignoring it, and now we're paying the price for it." "Well, don't forget the silent majority." "They're out there." "They just need something to stand for." "Well I'll admit there's pressure, but I think with time this will correct itself." "Forgive me, but I think you're wrong." "I'm serving on a jury in a case right now that touches on these issues." "And of course, I'm not allowed to talk about it, but I mean, the one thing that it's convinced me of is that if we stand by and do nothing, pressure that we're feeling today is gonna mean persecution tomorrow." "What makes you so sure?" "Speed of change, viciousness of the opposition." "The message of the gospel has us standing in the way of a lot of things that powerful people want, and our resistance to change that message because it's not ours to change has made us a lot of enemies." "Whether we admit it or not, we're at war, the war of Ephesians 6, not against flesh and blood, but against the powers of this world, against the spiritual forces in the heavenly realms." "And if we insist on denying that, then we've already lost." "I brought a giant bag of Chinese food and a briefcase full of files." "I say we eat first." "I say you're a genius." "Does Walter want to join us?" "Oh, no." "He's hiding in his room." "How come?" "He's treating this like it's a date, which should give you some indication of what my social life is like." "Don't worry, I won't tell." "Falls under attorney-client privilege." "So, is this what you always saw yourself doing, the lawyer thing?" "No, um..." "I wanted to be Batman." "How 'bout you?" "Your parents have you all set to go to the convent?" "Actually, there were no bedtime prayers in my childhood." "I was raised in a house without much faith." "When did you decide to become a Christian?" "I was walking home from class." "It was dark, and I was struggling with a lot of things." "And I turned the corner, and right there in front of me was this church." "It had this old sign out front, but it just stopped me in my tracks." "And the sign... the sign said," ""Who do you say that I am?"" "And as I read it, I could hear the Lord speak to me." "You know, I couldn't get that question out of my head for days, so that was the start of a journey that didn't end until I found the answer." "# Nearer, my God, to thee #" "# Nearer to thee #" "That was beautiful." "Forgive me, but I did not know anyone was here." "Oh, no." "Please don't apologize." "I didn't mean to interrupt." "I just didn't know where else to go." "I'm Martin." "I'm Brooke." "Do you think I could ask you a few questions?" "That would be fine." "Good, 'cause I have a lot." "He doesn't make mistakes." "But I thought you proved bias." "I mean, Principal Kinney and Mrs. Rizzo?" "Those were just jabs." "We need a knockout punch." "Why did you feel compelled to bring Jesus up in history class?" "Why shouldn't I have?" "Grace, I'm not here to debate with you what you think your rights were as..." "No, Tom, listen." "This isn't about faith." "This is about history." "Okay, maybe I'm wrong here." "I'm not the law expert, but I think they've missed the point." "I'm not sure I follow." "Their whole attack, it's about me preaching in class, but I didn't do that." "They're saying you did." "You cited Scripture." "You talked about Jesus' teachings just like they were any other verifiable fact." "But what if they're just that?" "I mean, just because certain facts happen to be recorded in the Bible doesn't mean they stop being facts." "We can separate the history-based elements of Jesus' life from the faith-based element." "I mean, in my classroom, I didn't talk about Jesus as my Lord and Savior." "You know, all I did was comment on quotations attributed to Jesus, the man, and I did it in A.P. History." "There was nothing wrong with the context." "And any rule saying that you can talk about any historic figure that ever existed except Jesus is discriminatory." "They can't institute that." "And every credible historian admits that Jesus existed." "I mean, there's just too much evidence." "Grace, I love it." "This is our defense." "Jesus as a historic figure, just like everyone else." "And you know what?" "Kane will never see it coming." "You got some reading to do." "He just had so many notes written in the margins that for the first time I felt like I was truly getting to know my brother." "Like God gave me the extra 5 minutes that I so desperately needed with him." "I just don't understand why he never told me about his faith." "Sharing one's faith with family, especially not knowing how they will react, can be difficult." "Count our struggles as blessings, right?" "That is exactly right." "There are more than 5 minutes awaiting you and your brother." "John chapter 11, verse 25 to 26 says," ""I am the resurrection and the life." ""He who believes in me will live even if he dies." ""And whoever lives and believes in me will never die."" "Do you believe this?" "I do." "Then invite him into your heart and make him the Lord of your life." "Dear Lord, I'm not quite sure what to say, but thank you for dying on the cross for me." "Please forgive me of my sin." "Jesus, please come into my life, and I will follow you as my Lord and Savior." "Amen." "Thank you." "Can you state your name and occupation for the court?" "My name is Lee Strobel." "I'm a professor of Christian thought at Houston Baptist University and the author of more than 20 books about Christianity, including "The Case for Christ."" "Can you help me prove the existence of Jesus Christ?" "Absolutely, beyond any reasonable doubt." "How so?" "Actually, this court already affirmed it when we were called into session and the date was given." "Our calendar has been split between B.C. and A.D." "based on the birth of Jesus, which is quite a feat if he never existed." "Beyond that, historian Gary Habermas lists 39 ancient sources for Jesus, from which he enumerates more than 100 reported facts about his life, teachings, crucifixion, and resurrection." "In fact, the historical evidence for Jesus' execution is so strong that one of the most famous New Testament scholars in the world," "Gerd Ludemann of Germany, said, "Jesus' death as a consequence of crucifixion is indisputable."" "Now, there are very few facts in ancient history that a critical historian like Gerd Ludemann will say is indisputable." "One of them is the execution of Jesus Christ." "Forgive me, but you're a believer, are you not?" "A Bible-believing Christian?" "Guilty as charged." "So, wouldn't this tend to inflate your estimate of the probability that Jesus existed." "No, because we don't need to inflate it." "We can reconstruct the basic facts about Jesus just from non-Christian sources outside the Bible." "And Gerd Ludemann is an atheist." "In other words, we can prove the existence of Jesus solely by using sources that have absolutely no sympathy toward Christianity." "As the agnostic historian, Bart Ehrman, says," ""Jesus did exist, whether we like it or not."" "I put it this way:" "Denying the existence of Jesus doesn't make him go away." "It merely proves that no amount of evidence will convince you." "Thank you." "No further questions, Your Honor." "Mr. Kane, your witness." "No questions, Your Honor." "That's lunch." "We'll recess until 2 p.m." "Can I help you with something?" "Oh, hi." "I was looking for Pastor Dave." "My friend, Mina, she said I should come see him." "She said he's real easy to talk to." "He won't be back until after next week." "Oh, okay." "Thanks." "Sweeping is something I only do part-time." "I enjoy it because it helps me think." "But if you need to talk, I'm actually a pastor." "It's been 3 weeks since my doctors told me" "I was in remission." "Oh, Amy, that's wonderful." "It is." "Yes." "But even though I've been given this gift," "I've been questioning my faith." "I know Jesus existed, but I'm struggling to believe." "Actually, I think you already do believe, and the proof is you're not willing to put God back on the shelf now that your cancer is gone." "He won't let you dismiss the thought of him." "Part of you senses Jesus' presence and wishes that he would just go away and leave you alone." "Actually, now that you mention it, I had thought of that." "Look, he delights in using us in ways we never dreamed of and giving us things that we never even knew we wanted." "We just have to give him a chance." "Will you?" "Thank you." "Hi, I'm Reverend David Hill." "Sermon transcripts, right?" " Yes." " Just put it right there." "They've been coming in all morning." "I'm sure they did what they thought was best." "That's it?" "Those are your entire sermons for the past 120 days?" "No, that's a letter that I wrote explaining why I'm not going to hand them in." "Excuse me?" "I know it's unusual for a Christian pastor to willfully resist a subpoena issued by a lawful government authority, and it's even more unusual that he should feel compelled to do so." "Are you sure you wanna do that?" "It's something that I have to do." "You know the old saying, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease," don't you?" "I have another saying:" ""A nail that sticks up gets hammered down."" "Susan, what I'm seeing is a teacher who answered a student's question to the best of her ability." "Amy, it sounds like you're taking the side of Grace Wesley here." "Surely, you see that she used the student's question to promote her Christian agenda." "Actually, Susan, that's not how I see it." "I believe Ms. Wesley's entitled to her own opinions, and that includes in the classroom." "She didn't try to convert these students, in fact..." "Amy, I must say, I'm shocked at what seems to be a complete 180 from the typical stance of your plot." "Just look at the facts of this case for a minute." "She clearly infringed on the rights of her students." "Marlene?" "I have an idea." "Come over as soon as you can, okay?" "You look terrible." "You really ought to ask to be excused." "No, no, I'm fine." "I really need to be here." "All rise." "You may be seated." "Juror number 12, is there something you'd like to say?" "I'm sorry, Your Honor, I gotta..." "Bailiff, call paramedics." "Sir." "Well, I guess that proves there is no God, 'cause they just lost the only juror they could count on." "Any dizziness?" " Yeah." " Vomiting?" "About a half hour ago." "Does this hurt?" "How 'bout this?" "I hope you're not too attached to your appendix." "Brooke!" "Marlene." "It's not looking good in there." "Ms. Marshall, are you prepared to fulfill your duties as an alternate?" "Yes, I am, Your Honor." "Mr. Endler, next witness." "Would you state your name and experience for the record?" "My name is James Warner Wallace." "I'm a retired homicide detective from Los Angeles County." "And are you the author of the book, "Cold Case Christianity"?" "Yes, I am." "Can you share the subtitle of the book with the court, please?" ""A Homicide Detective" "Investigates the Claims of the Gospels."" "Would I be correct in saying that your duties as a homicide detective include investigating cold case homicides?" "Yes, that is and was my expertise." "Don't most of those cases get solved with DNA evidence?" "Objection, leading." "And counsel is testifying again, Your Honor." "I'll rephrase." "How many of your cold cases were solved through the use of DNA evidence?" "None." "Not one." "That's often popular on TV, but our departments never had the good fortune of solving a cold case with DNA." "Well, how do most of these cases get solved?" "Often by examining eyewitness claims, witness claims that were made many years earlier, even though often our witnesses are now deceased." "Forgive my ignorance, Mr. Wallace, but how is that possible?" "Well, we have a number of techniques we can use to test the reliability of an eyewitness, including something called forensic statement analysis." "That's a discipline where we scrutinize the statements of eyewitnesses and looking at what they choose to minimize, what they choose to emphasize, what they omit altogether, how they expand time or contract time." "And when we examine these kinds of eyewitness accounts, we can usually tell who's lying, and who's telling the truth, and even who the guilty party is." "And did you apply this skill set anytime outside of your official capacity?" "Yes, I applied my expertise to the death of Jesus at the hands of the Romans, and I actually looked at the gospels as I would any other set of forensic statements." "Within a matter of months, I determined that the four gospels, written from different perspectives, contained the eyewitness accounts about the life, ministry, death, and resurrection of Jesus." "And did you consider that the four accounts might be part of a conspiracy, designed to promote belief in a fledgling faith?" "Yeah, you have to consider conspiracies when assessing eyewitness accounts, but successful conspiracies typically involve the fewest number of people." "It's a lot easier for 2 people to lie and keep a secret than it is for 20." "And that's really the problem with the conspiracy theories related to the apostles in the 1st century." "There are just far too many of them trying to hold this conspiracy for far too long a period of time." "And far worse, they're experiencing pressure like no other, unimaginable pressure." "Every one of these folks was tortured and died for what they claimed to see, and none of them ever recanted their story." "So, the idea that this is a conspiracy in the 1 st century is just really unreasonable." "Instead, what I see in the gospels is something I call unintended eyewitness support statement." "What's an unintended eyewitness support statement?" "If I can borrow your Bible?" "Let me go to the Gospel of Matthew for an example of this." "I'll start with a passage in which Jesus is in front of Caiaphas at a hearing." "It says here, "Then they spit in his face" ""and struck him with their fists." ""Others slapped him and said," "'Prophesy to us, Christ." "Who hit you?"'" "Now, that seems like a very simple request, given that the people who hit him are standing right in front of him." "This makes no sense." "Why would it be prophecy to be able to tell you who hit you?" "But it's not until you read Luke that you get an answer to this." "He says, "The men who were guarding Jesus" ""began mocking and beating him." ""They blindfolded him and demanded," "'Prophesy, who hit you?"'" "So, now we know why this was a challenge, 'cause Luke tells us the thing that Matthew left out, that he was actually blindfolded at the time this took place." "This is very common, this kind of unintentional eyewitness support that fills in a detail that the first witness left out." "After years of scrutinizing these gospels using the template that I use to determine if an eyewitness is reliable," "I concluded that the four gospels in this book contained the reliable accounts of the actual words of Jesus." "And that's to include the statements quoted by Ms. Wesley in her class?" "Absolutely." "Thank you, Detective." "Your witness." "Detective Wallace," "I'm not gonna try to match biblical knowledge with you." "But isn't it true that these gospel accounts vary widely in what they say, that there are numerous discrepancies between these accounts?" "Absolutely, but that's exactly what we should expect." "I don't quite understand that." "Well, reliable eyewitness accounts always differ slightly in the way they recall the story." "They're coming to it from different geographic perspectives, their history, even where they are located in the room." "When I examined the gospels, I was trying to determine if these were accurate, reliable accounts, in spite of any differences there might be between the accounts." "Ah, and as a devout Christian, you feel you succeeded?" "Ah, Mr. Kane." "I think you misunderstand me." "When I began this study, I was a devout atheist." "I began examining the gospels as a committed skeptic, not as a believer." "You see, I wasn't raised in a Christian environment, although I do think I have an unusually high regard for the value of evidence." "I'm not a Christian because I was raised that way or because I hoped it would satisfy some need or accomplish some goal." "I'm simply a Christian because it's evidentially true." "Motion to strike, Your Honor." "Granted." "Jury's instructed to ignore Detective Wallace's last remark." "No further questions." "Witness is excused." "Thank you, Your Honor." "Mr. Endler, your next witness." "We don't have one, Your Honor." "She didn't do anything wrong;" "She was just trying to help me!" "Brooke!" "Order!" "I'll have order!" "Young lady, your youth is no excuse for disturbing the sanctity of this court." "But this case is supposed to be about me." "I'm almost 17 years old;" "It's not like I can't think for myself." "I just don't have the right to speak." " Brooke, what are you doing?" " Not unless you are called as a witness, young lady." "If I put her on the stand, what am I gonna hear?" "That she asked a question and I answered it." "Your Honor, we'd like to call Ms. Brooke Thawley to the stand." "Objection, Your Honor!" "Ms. Thawley is a minor." "Her parents do not want her subjected to the emotional pressure of testifying against her own teacher." "Ms. Thawley, are you willing to testify on your own behalf?" "Yes, Your Honor." "And do you understand that you will have to answer all the questions truthfully, regardless of your feelings, and that failure to do so is punishable by law?" "Yes, Your Honor." "I'm not afraid of telling the truth." "I'm only afraid of not being able to tell it." "I will allow this witness." "Objection overruled." "Brooke, in class, who first brought up the name "Jesus,"" "you or Ms. Wesley?" "I did." "As part of a question?" "Yes." "And at that time, did you feel like you were asking a faith-based question?" "No, not really." "It just seemed like Martin Luther King and Jesus were saying similar things, so I brought it up." "And did you consider Ms. Wesley's response to be a reasonable answer to your question?" "Yes." "So, if I'm hearing you correctly, you asked a question in history class about a historical figure, and your history teacher answered it in a sensible manner?" "Yes." "Thank you." "Your witness." "Ms. Thawley, do you like Ms. Wesley?" "Yes." "Would you say she's your favorite teacher?" "Yes, absolutely." "Do you think Ms. Wesley likes you?" "Objection, speculative." "Your Honor, speaks to the state of mind of the witness, if not Ms. Wesley herself." "I'm gonna allow it." "Overruled." "You may answer the question." "Yes, I think she likes me." "Uh-huh." "Do you think there's any possibility that in answering your question, she may have tried to share some of the ideas of her faith, a faith that she holds most dear?" "No, uh, no, not at that moment." "Not at that moment." "You mean to say that there were other moments in which she talked to you about her faith?" "Hmm?" "Ms. Thawley, please?" "You must answer the question, Ms. Thawley." "Yes, but it was outside of school and it was only one time." "Move to strike." "Your Honor, this is irrelevant." "No actions off the school campus are at issue here." "Denied." "Mr. Kane seems to have found a loose thread." "I'm inclined to let him pull it." "See what unravels." "Thank you, Your Honor." "Why didn't you tell me about this?" "You didn't ask, and I didn't think it mattered." "Brooke, you realize that you have to tell the truth here." "You understand that, correct?" "Yes." "So, what did you mean when you said that you had talks about faith outside of school?" "My brother died in an accident 6 months ago." "Ms. Wesley noticed that I wasn't doing so well, so she asked me if everything was all right after class." "Mm-hmm." "I told her I was fine, but I went and found her later on at the coffee shop." "And did Ms. Wesley refer you to any kind of psychological counseling?" "No." "Did she suggest that perhaps she wasn't the right person to be discussing this with you?" "No." "Well, then what did Ms. Wesley do?" "She was really nice." "We talked for a long time and I could tell that she really cared." "Mm." "I asked her how she kept it all together so well, and she said, "Jesus."" "So, she's the one who brought up Jesus?" "Did her endorsement of Jesus move you to explore Christianity?" "Yes, at first." "But when the Salvation Army came to pick up my brother's things, one of the ladies found his Bible, and she gave it to me." "I didn't even know that he had one." "Mm." "So, I started reading it, and once I started," "I realized that I didn't wanna stop." "That's why." "That's why I came up with the question that I asked in class." "Now, if I understand you correctly, without Ms. Wesley's direct involvement, you never would've asked that question in the first place, would you?" "I don't know." "After all of your Bible readings, do you feel now that you're a believer?" "Yes." "Maybe even a Christian?" "Yes." "At the risk of seeming redundant, do you think any of this, the Bible readings, the question about Jesus in class, the newfound commitment to Christianity, is it likely that any of that would've occurred" "without Ms. Wesley's direct involvement?" "No, it wouldn't." "I thank you for your honesty." "No further questions, Your Honor." "Mr. Endler, do you wish to redirect?" "No, Your Honor." "You may step down, Ms. Thawley." "Why do they look so angry?" "Because they think we lied to them." "But we didn't." "It doesn't matter." "This court is adjourned." "I have to prepare you, Grace." "We're gonna lose this case." "I know." "You were right." "I'm gonna lose everything." "We saw a very large crowd out here at the courthouse yesterday, both in protest and support of teacher Grace Wesley, who is on trial for allegedly proselytizing at the classroom." "Now, in an unexpected move yesterday, we saw some of Wesley's former students come out to silently demonstrate their support for their teacher." "Oh Father, please take this from me." "I don't know what to do." "Please don't forsake me." "Please." "Hey, Brooke." "I ruined everything, didn't I?" "It's okay, you don't have to answer." "I know that I did." "I'm not even allowed to talk to her." "How do I let her know that I'm sorry without making things worse?" "I can't tell you what to do, but whatever you do, just let her know you care." "Recently, when I've been praying, it's like Jesus isn't letting me feel his presence." "Usually I can almost reach out and touch him, but right now it's like he's a million miles away." "Honey, you of all people should realize when you're going through something really hard, the teacher is always quiet during the test." "# Oh Lord my God #" "# When I in awesome wonder #" "# Consider all the worlds thy hands have made #" "# I see the stars #" "# I hear the rolling thunder #" "# Thy power throughout the universe displayed #" "# Then sings my soul, my Savior God, to thee #" "# How great thou art #" "# How great thou art #" "# Then sings my soul, my Savior God, to thee #" "# How great thou art #" "First of all, this trial took an unexpected turn when Wesley's counsel decided they'd try to prove the existence of Jesus." "Gary, this is kind of your area of expertise." "How do you convince the skeptics?" "Well, Governor, I employ what I call the minimal facts method, which uses only the historical events that are so well evidenced that they're accepted across the board, even by skeptical and non-Christian scholars." "As a result, we..." "Now I understand what it is you weren't allowed to talk about." "I wish I still wasn't allowed to talk about it." "She needs me on that jury." "Have faith, David." "God's plan is at work." "How'd you get here anyway?" "I borrowed your Prius." "It's very nice." "Don't get too comfortable." "I'm planning a full recovery." "So, Rice, do you believe that she was proselytizing to her students?" "Governor, not at all." "Jesus Christ was the most influential person who ever lived." "How could you ignore that fact and teach history?" "I think the real problem is..." "Hey, Martin!" "More questions?" "I wanted to make sure that you were okay." "Yeah, I'm fine." "They're just holding me over for a little observation." "I'll be released soon." "Something different about you." "Are you okay?" "I should say so." "Yes." "I believe God wants me to be a minister, to return to my country and become a pastor, just like you." "That's great." "There'll be challenges in your country." "Are you prepared for them?" "I am." "I'm proud of you." "Come here." "That's awesome." "It's a shocking reality that Christians are soon gonna be forced to choose between obeying the law of man or following the Word of God." "I'm Mike Huckabee." "We'll see you next time on "Point of View."" "Hey, Brooke, why don't you go be with Ms. Wesley." "I think we can handle this." "Yeah, seriously, we've got backup coming." "You're covered." "Go get 'em." "God's got this." "Where's Tom?" "All rise." "Be seated." "Are we missing someone?" "Sorry, Your Honor." "My apologies to the court." "That's unexpected." "He almost looks like a lawyer." "Your Honor, I have one final witness to call." "Grace Wesley." "Ms. Wesley, please approach the witness stand." "Do I have to?" "I'm afraid so." "Your Honor, given the witness's reluctance to testify, can I have the court's permission to treat her as a hostile witness?" "You may." "Proceed at your own peril." "Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?" "I do." "Please be seated." "Grace, I want you to do something for me, something for everyone in this courtroom." "I want you to apologize." "I want you to say you're sorry and that you made a mistake." "Your Honor, what's going on here?" "Do it, Grace." "I can't do that." "Why?" "Why can't you do that, Grace?" "Because I don't believe I did anything wrong." "Well, as your attorney, I'm advising you to do it anyway." "To at least pretend that you're sorry and throw yourself on the mercy of the court." "What?" "That would be a lie." "So what?" "Everyone lies." "Not everyone." "Are you looking to become a martyr?" "What in the world is he doing?" "I have no idea." "No." "Tommy..." "Then what is it that you want, Grace?" "Tell me." "Tell us." "I want..." "I want to be able to tell the truth." "The truth?" "Whose truth?" "And what truth are you referring to?" "Grace, is there some truth that you know that no one else knows?" "Oh, that's right." "The other night, didn't you tell me that Jesus spoke to you personally?" "Why are you doing this?" "I'm the one asking the questions, Ms. Wesley." "Did you or did you not tell me that Jesus spoke to you personally?" "Yes." "And what did he say?" "I'll make it easier for you." "Didn't you say that he asked you a question?" "That was personal." "You weren't supposed to..." "I don't care." "The other night, you told me that Jesus asked you something." "What did he ask you, Grace?" "Tell all of us." "I think we deserve to know." "Why are you doing this to me?" "Answer the question." "They won't believe me." "Doesn't matter." "All that matters is that you believe it." "Tell us, Grace, under penalty of perjury, what was the question that God presented to you personally that night on campus?" "Answer the question." "Answer the question!" "He asked, "Who do you say that I am?"" "And what did you answer?" "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." "Well, there you have it." "Your Honor, I think we've all heard quite enough." "Mr. Endler, are you looking to change your client's plea?" "No, Your Honor." "I say she's innocent of all wrongdoing." "But I'm asking the jury to find against her anyway." "I mean, let's, let's face it." "She has the audacity to believe not only that there is a God, but that she has a personal relationship with Him, which colors everything that she says and does." "I think it's time that we stop pretending that we can trust a person like this to serve in a public capacity." "In the name of tolerance and diversity, I say we destroy her." "That's enough, Mr. Endler." "Then we can all go to our graves content, knowing that we stomped out the last spark of faith that was ever exhibited in the public square." "That's enough, Mr. Endler." "I say we make an example of her." "Mr. Endler, that's enough." "Let's set a new precedent, that employment by our federal government mandates that you must first denounce any belief system you have." "Mr. Endler that is enough!" "You are out of order." "And if someone slips through the cracks and hides their beliefs, then we arrest them and fine them." "And if they don't pay, then we seize their property." "And if they resist..." "Well, let's not kid ourselves." "Enforcement is always at the end of a gun." "Mr. Endler, you are out of order." "I charge you with contempt!" "I accept the charge, because I have nothing but contempt for these proceedings." "If we're going to insist that a Christian's right to believe is subordinate to all other rights, then it's not a right." "Somebody is always going to be offended." "Two thousand years of human history proves that." "So, I say we get on with it." "Cite the law, charge the jury, and send them off to deliberate." "So be it!" "Now, we are gonna bypass the usual closing arguments, unless Mr. Kane finds the need to further address the jury." "No, Your Honor." "We can ask nothing more." "My instructions to you are simple." "Uphold the law without unfairly prejudicing your decision or risking a mistrial on appeal." "Now, I believe I can safely say that the respondent's counsel has dared you to convict his own client." "The jury will now be dismissed for deliberation." "We are adjourned." "She hasn't got a prayer." "Let's go." "Remind me to send him a thank-you note." "Thank you so much." "Thank you, guys." "Thanks for coming out." "Hey, right now on the phone, a friend of mine named Amy is on the line, and she's calling about a woman who's on trial for her faith." "This woman has risked everything for Jesus." "Amy's asked me to pray for this woman." "Will you guys join me?" "Lord, we know that to risk anything for you is a complete honor with eternal rewards." "But if it's within your will, can you please restore this woman's hope and make her faith an example to all of us?" "Lord, show your power to a fallen world." "We know you have the power to do anything." "So, we ask you right now, crying out as the body of Christ, move those hearts of those people, both the judge and the jury, to let them know the beauty of your majesty." "And we all said amen." "Amen." "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, have you reached a decision?" "We have, Your Honor." "And how do you find?" "We, the jury, find in favor of Grace Wesley." "We are adjourned." "Nice shoes." "Grace, I'm sorry." "I couldn't tell you." "It had to come as a surprise, otherwise the jury wouldn't have been swayed by your reactions." "So, you did have a plan." "No, you did." "You stood up for what you believed in and you held on to your faith." "I don't know anybody that would have done that." "They were hoping to make an example of you, but instead you became an inspiration." "We did it!" "Hey, you've kept quiet long enough." "Why don't you go share the good news?" "Hey, thank you." "Yeah." "# When did it become breaking a rule #" "# To say your name out loud in school #" "# When your name's the only one that sets us free #" "# When did it become incorrect #" "# To speak the truth about life and death #" "# When your life gave us all eternity #" "# Even if it gets me convicted #" "# I'll be on my knees with my hands lifted #" "God's not dead!" "# If serving you's against the law of man #" "# If living out my faith in you is banned #" "# Then I'll stand right before the jury #" "# If saying I believe is out of line #" "# If it's just cause I'm gonna give my life #" "# To show the world the love that fills me #" "# Then I want to be guilty #" "A case that was turning for the worse was concluded with a powerful happy ending for Ms. Grace Wesley." "Live outside the courthouse here in Hope Springs." "Father." "You did it!" "Ha ha ha ha ha!" "God is good." "The verdict is in." "Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait." "I want to hear this." "In the case of Thawley v. Wesley, they have ruled in favor of Grace Wesley." "The crowd is in full celebration here in Hope Springs." "So are you gonna say it, or should I?" "Say what?" "God is good." "All the time." "And all the time." "God is good." "Amen, brother." "# Show the world the love that fills me #" "# Love that fills me #" "# Then I want to be guilty by association #" "# Guilty of being a voice proclaiming your ways #" "# Your truth, your life #" "# I'll pay the price to be your light #" "I'll get to work on the appeal." "Don't bother." "If we appeal and lose, it'll set a precedent." "I don't want that." "I don't understand how we lost this." "He outsmarted us." "He played our role in attacking Wesley." "He made the jury hate everyone, but her." "Not to mention he proved the existence of Jesus Christ." "God's not dead!" "He's surely alive!" "God's not dead!" "He's surely alive!" "God's not dead!" "He's surely alive!" "God's not dead!" "He's surely alive!" "God's not dead!" "He's surely alive!" "God's not dead!" "He's surely alive!" "God's not dead!" "He's surely alive!" "# My God's not dead, he's surely alive #" "# He's living on the inside, roaring like a lion #" "# God's not dead, he's surely alive #" "# He's living on the inside, roaring like a lion #" "# He's roaring #" "# He's roaring... #" "# He's roaring like a lion #" "# Let hope arise and make the darkness hide #" "# My faith is dead, I need a resurrection somehow #" "# Now I'm lost in your freedom #" "# In this world, I'll overcome #" "# My God's not dead, he's surely alive #" "# He's living on the inside, roaring like a lion #" "# My God's not dead, he's surely alive #" "# He's living on the inside, roaring like a lion #" "# God's not dead, he's surely alive #" "# He's living on the inside, roaring like a lion #" "# God's not dead, he's surely alive #" "# He's living on the inside, roaring like a lion #" "# He's roaring... #" "# He's roaring #" "# He's roaring like a lion #" "# He's roaring... #" "# He's roaring #" "# He's roaring like a lion #" "# He's roaring like a lion. #" "# You're not everybody's expectations #" "# You're not just the cards you're dealt #" "# You aren't a product of your generation #" "# You are what you make yourself #" "# Take all that you're afraid to say #" "# Post it up and put it on display #" "# You don't have to play nice now #" "# Stay held down, shut up, and keep it quiet #" "# Don't have to take the easy way out, follow the in-crowd #" "# Stand up and make a riot #" "# Nothing's gonna change if you won't #" "# No, nothing's gonna change if you don't #" "# It'll be the hardest thing you'll ever have to do #" "# But don't let them silence you #" "# When you look back on this moment #" "# You'll have wished you'd spoken your mind #" "# Step up to the plate and own it #" "# Instead of blending in the sidelines #" "# Take all that you're afraid to be #" "# Light it up for everyone to see #" "# You don't have to play nice now #" "# Stay held down, shut up, and keep it quiet #" "# Don't have to take the easy way out, follow the in-crowd #" "# Stand up and make a riot #" "# Nothing's gonna change if you won't #" "# No, nothing's gonna change if you don't #" "# It'll be the hardest thing you'll ever have to do #" "# But don't let them silence you #" "# And when we're gone, our words live on #" "# So, don't let them silence, silence #" "# No, you won't #" "# You don't have to play nice now #" "# Stay held down, shut up, and keep it quiet #" "# Don't have to take the easy way out, follow the in-crowd #" "# Stand up and make a riot #" "# Nothing's gonna change if you won't #" "# No, nothing's gonna change if you don't #" "# It'll be the hardest thing you'll ever have to do #" "# But don't let them silence you #" "# No, don't let them silence you. #" "You know I'm gonna need my keys back." "I know." "Two days of ice chips." "I'm starving." "I'm hungry as well, David." "How about I take you for a nice tuna melt?" "David Hill?" "Yes?" "You're under arrest." "For what?" "Contempt of court." "You failed to produce your sermons upon court order." "Please put your hands behind your back." "Please be gentle." "He has just been released from the hospital." "I don't understand." "What is he being accused of?" "You have the right to remain silent." "Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law." "You have a right to an attorney." "If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you." "Do you understand the rights I have just read to you?" "Yes." "Sorry about this, Pastor." "It's okay." "Looks like I'm gonna need you to fill in for me a little while longer." "Of course, David, anything you need." "What do we do now?" "Same as always, Martin." "We pray, in faith."