"If you want to talk about the "Davy Crockett" phenomenon... and we do, then you have to talk... to Paul F. Anderson... not only the editor and publisher... of "Persistence of Vision"... a wonderful magazine about Disneyana... but the author of the book "The Davy Crockett Craze"." "And craze is what it was... so that's why we want to discuss it." "Were you alive then?" "Did you experience it firsthand?" "Sadly, I did not." "Even with all of the research that I did... and the people that I interviewed... it was kind of experiencing it vicariously." "I think I know what it was like... but after talking to a lot of these people..." "I'm sure I probably really don't." "I won't brag and say I do... because it's not really appropriate... to brag about being older, but..." "Did you have your coonskin cap?" "I had my coonskin cap, I learned the ballad." "I sang it when I was four years old." "So, yes, I was part of it then... and I think you've captured it very well." "What did you learn about the real Davy Crockett... in doing your research?" "Well, the real Davy Crockett... wasn't quite what we see in the Disney Davy Crockett." "He was kind of a rascal... to the point a lot of stories about, for instance... when he had gone to a dinner... at the president's, John Quincy Adams... he got into an argument with the waiter... accused the waiter of stealing his food." "They passed the finger bowls around... he drank from the finger bowls... so he really was kind of a backwoodsman... and not quite the character that Disney portrays." "He had a few foibles." "Now, do you know how and why..." "Walt got interested in this character?" "How it came to be that Walt Disney... produced the Crockett series?" "Well, yeah, he was looking for financing for Disneyland." ""One Hour in Wonderland" in 1950... was a tremendous success." "It'd been seen by 90% of the public." "And there was a real push for him to go into TV... but not till he really needed financing for his dream... his park, did he approach TV... and at that point he was interested... in American history and he always said... he wanted to do American history." "He went with the anthology format... when he signed up with ABC... and, of course, that was based... on the four lands at Disneyland:" "Adventureland, Fantasyland..." "Tomorrowland, and Frontierland." "And they were looking for an American hero... and, as Bill Walsh, the producer, said..." ""By plain dumb luck..." ""we pulled Davy Crockett out of the hat"." "He wasn't too excited about Davy Crockett at first." "It took a lot of convincing." "Bill Walsh tells a story about... he took a storyboard in and he said..." ""Well, then he fought the Indians..." ""and then he had fights with Andrew Jackson..." ""and then he went to Congress..." ""and then he went out west and he fought more Indians..." ""and then he had fights with the Texans..." ""and then he went to the Alamo and he died a martyr"." "And Bill Walsh said, "I dropped down dead." ""Walt looked at me and he said..." ""Well, is that all he did?"" "Exploits of Davy Crockett in the Rocky Mountains." "Why, I ain't never been west of the muddy old Mississip." " Let me see that." " Sure." "Somebody's got a mighty powerful imagination." ""As told by his friend G.E. Russel"." "Georgie Russel?" "I might've knowed." "Why, there's a whole slew of 'em." "Exploits of Davy Crockett on the Great Plains..." "Davy Crockett and the Monster of Reelfoot Lake." "Haven't you ever seen any of 'em?" "Nope." "Heh heh heh." "And so it took a little bit of convincing... but eventually they got Walt through on Davy Crockett... and it's a good thing, too." "One of the interesting parts... about Disney's involvement in television is... that he, as he did, I guess... from the very beginning of his career... he often spent more than he could possibly make... in producing these shows." "Boy, and in this case, he went well over that." "His contract with ABC gave him $100,000 an episode... and so for three episodes, that was $300,000." "And Walt spent well over$700,000... on those three versions... or those three episodes of Davy Crockett." "And he put a lot of money into things... that people at TV weren't doing back then." "A lot of the costs came from shooting on location." "He really wanted that feel of American history... and shooting in history, and so they went back... to North Carolina and Tennessee... and they shot on location, which was unheard of... for Disney... or for any TVproduction." "And he also shot in color." "You know, when you think about it... that was black and white TV... so he really was a visionary in that respect... as far as realizing that color TV was coming... and that by shooting in color... it was an investment in the future." "And not only was it an investment in the future... and he able to run it in color... but he also combined the 3 segments into a movie... and then released it theatrically, too, so..." "But that was not part of the plan." "No, no, it was after it had become... such a grand success, then... that immediately became part of the plan... and so it was a good thing they shot in color." "Of course, a great part of the show's success... of any show's success..." "would be casting." "Originally, Buddy Ebsen was planned... to be Davy Crockett... and that came at the suggestion of Norman Foster... who had suggested him and recommended him." "And he was the director on the set." "Yes." "And Walt's staff convinced him... that he needed to go watch a film... sort of a campy "B" sci-fi film called "Them"." "Walt was watching the film, and Fess Parker, of course... had a real minor role in there... one minute as a highway patrolman." "And the minute that Fess Parker came on the screen..." "Walt stood up and pointed and said, "That's my Davy"." "And from there on out..." "Fess Parker was Davy Crockett." "And at that time, the role of Georgie Russel... had been cast with a gangly song and dance man... named Carlton Carpenter." "But he was subsequently dropped... and then Buddy Ebsen was given that role... so that's how the pair came together." " Fate." " Fate." "Yeah, Buddy said that it was really difficult for him... but once he saw Fess onscreen... he knew that Walt had made the right decision." "And, of course, that song." "How many times in Walt's career... did a song make a difference... and it certainly made a difference here, didn't it?" "Well, yeah, that's..." "I mean, that's the example." "I teach a class on Walt Disney and American culture... and I have a lot of 19-, 20-, 21-year-olds... and they wouldn't believe it." "I would tell them, you know... how many cover versions were recorded... that it was on top of the Hit Parade for six months... number one for three months." "I mean, it was played all the time... every kid was singing at the top of his lungs... over and over and over... and people today I don't think really grasp... how that song was... how much a part of our fabric of our everyday life it became." "Things have accelerated so much in our society." "Fads and phenomena can come and go so quickly now." "I mean, they can burn very brightly... but then burn out." ""Davy Crockett" really lasted a while, didn't it?" "It lasted a while... and you talk about the brightness..." "I mean, it was the supernova of fads." "I mean, nothing..." "nothing... equals it." "And the one comparison point I can make is... another generation's craze which was "Star Wars"." "Because the studio releasing it, the theaters playing it... no one expected "Star Wars" to take off the way it did." " Right." " It was a surprise." "It caught the toy manufacturers off-guard." "They didn't have toys ready... to support the tremendous interest... there suddenly was in "Star Wars"." "Well, that happened to Walt with "Davy Crockett"." "Tell us a little about that." "Yeah, "Star Wars" was... and I make that jump in my book... was almost the Crockett craze." "Not quite as intense... and not with the same amount of merchandise... but, yeah, they had no idea." "In fact, I remember I did an interview with Lou Lispi... who was the art director... for the character merchandising department... in New York for Disney... and they were kind of briefed on it." "You know, watch this, see if you think... there's any merchandising possibilities in it." "And he watched it, and he thought it was good." "He went to bed, and the next morning... he got up and the phones were ringing off the hook." "It was nonstop." "All the licensees were calling." "It literally started the next day." "They wanted to know... what kind of ad work they had for them... what pictures they had of Fess Parker... what kind of merchandise they could do... to the point that by early in the afternoon... they had accepted over 200 phone calls... and they took the phones off the hook... because they didn't have anything to send 'em." "And Lou Lispi, in one of the great moves of his life... didn't tell 'em that." "He said..." ""We'll send the packet out at the end of the week"." "And by taking the phone off the hook... then with all the licensees calling... they were going, "Oh, my gosh..." ""our competitors are calling, we need to call more"... and that further fueled it." "And he got his group together... and basically that night and the next morning... they threw together pictures of Fess Parker... threw together logo type, anything they could... to throw into a packet with a cover letter... and send it out to all the licensees." "And Lou told me, he said, "I got the only bonus check..." ""of my entire career when Roy O. Disney..." ""personally wrote that check to me as a thanks..." ""for pulling that one off"." "So, yeah, it happened overnight... and it was completely unexpected." "How many different products were licensed?" "It's estimated, as near as I can tell... from all the figures... and this is a pretty wide range... between 300 and 3,000." "And I don't..." "I think the reason it is... such a wide range is very telling... of what was going on at that time... that it took everybody by storm." "The one report that says 3,000 was from "Time" magazine... and then the one report from about 300... was from, I think, the "New York Times"." "And so, needless to say, there was a lot." "I think in... it's probably better described, maybe... in financial terms, and that is... that in the first seven, eight months of the craze... it was estimated that over $300 million... of Crockett merchandise had been sold." "Now, if you translate that into 2001 dollars... which I did, it's about 2.1 billion." "For a TV show!" "2.1 billion." "And that's just the merchandise." "I found a quote from a fellow... who was in charge of retailing... like a national retail organization... and he said that they would... literally stock the shelves in the morning... and they would be wiped out at night." "Everything would be gone." "The coonskin cap, of course, was another item... that Walt couldn't exactly trademark... even though he had brought it to prominence." "But I can't imagine how many there were out there." "I can't think of a young boy..." "I don't know about the girls... but I can't think of a young boy who didn't have one then." "Yeah, every kid had to have the coonskin cap." "And a lot of girls did, too." "And it got to a point where the nation's raccoon fur... became in high, high demand." "It had jumped from 25 cents a pound... to $5.00 a pound in three months." "And then they ran out." "And at one point, they were so short on hats... that they issued a hat..." "a coonskin cap... made out of crepe paper." "They made coonskin caps just out of about anything." "That was the must-have item." "Gotta have that coonskin cap." "Test your memory, if you will." "Rattle off for us as many different... kinds of products as you can think of... that bore the name "Davy Crockett"." "My gosh, go to a five and dime... and go down the aisle and name everything." "I mean, you name it." "Books had gone from selling 20,000 a year... the previous year on "Davy Crockett"... to, the publishing industry estimates... 14 million books were sold... in the first six months of 1955 alone on Crockett." "Kids' wear of all kinds." ""Time" magazine estimated that... 10% of all the children's wear sales... were Crockett-related." "Towels..." "I remember there was an ad that I found from..." "I believe it was the May Company in Denver... advertising Davy Crockett towels." ""Your bathtime troubles are over now." ""They'll run to the bathtub with these towels"." "But you can just go on and on and on." "They had forks and guns and toys and hats... and all sorts of clothing apparel... and eating utensils, bowls, plates." "Numerous, numerous books." "Every kind of toy you could possibly think of... toy guns, toy holsters, toy boots." "The list... in fact, I believe in my book... probably the longest published paragraph ever." "I say, "Like... " and then I go on a list like that... and it takes up a whole column... because anything you could put Davy Crockett's face on... ended up on a store shelf somewhere." "Do you have any favorites among all this merchandise?" "I think the record." "There were 40, 50 cover versions done... but the number one-selling version of the song... actually wasn't by Fess Parker." "It was by Bill Hayes." "And for my book, I interviewed Bill Hayes... and he's charming and eloquent... and I really enjoyed talking with him... about the time period and his contribution in it." "And I found that record... on Cadence Records, that original Davy Crockett..." ""Ballad of Davy Crockett"... and so I had him sign it for me." "I think that's probably my favorite, but..." "I mean, there's some other neat items." "The Davy Crockett guitar... where you crank it up and turn it... and it plays "The Ballad of Davy Crockett"." "And Davy Crockett napkins and... but I say the record's my favorite." "Now, since Davy, in a sense, was born... out of the concept of Disneyland... with its various areas... and this being Frontierland... did Walt then draw Davy... or Fess... into activities at the Disneyland park?" "Yeah, very much so." "Again, another example of being caught off-guard... and not realizing they were gonna have such a mega-hit." "They scrambled to put attractions in Disneyland... and, of course, Fess and Buddy were there... on the opening day for the opening day program." "Was there continuing involvement... at Disneyland for Davy Crockett?" "Yeah, they had a little Davy Crockett museum... right when you went into Frontierland... that had some figures of Davy and a little bar... where you could belly up and drink a sarsaparilla... which tastes strangely like Coke... and a few other items." "And that lasted about a year." "They had a Davy Crockett shooting gallery... and some other items, so it was, uh... and, of course, plenty of places... to buy a coonskin cap, so..." "What do you think this craze says about that time period?" "About the mid-Fifties?" "It says everything." "I mean, short... the tangibles are easy to look at." "You know, Fess and Buddy, a good script... catchy tune, well-done, well-produced, great for TV." "But when you get into the intangibles... is where you really find what was going on... with the Fifties and with that craze." "The political, the social, the economic, the cultural." "All of that was coming together for the Davy Crockett craze." "Politically, it was Cold War." "It's filled with Cold War ideology." "You know, Davy was a real American hero." "He was a patriot... and so that really appealed to people." "From a social standpoint, Davy really crossed... most gender, racial, economic, religious barriers." "It was somebody that children could identify with... they could sing a song with, he could be their friend... they could look up to him." "So from a social aspect... it was really something that the kids could grasp onto." "Prior to that, a lot of the heroes... had been fantasy in nature." "You know, Superman and Buck Rogers and whatnot." "From an economic standpoint... the Fifties were really characterized... by an increasing economy, consumer goods, consumerism." "It was everywhere." "People were buying stuff." "The families were coming out of the war... raising their family... and so the consumerism really fueled... the merchandise aspect of it." "They were buying their kids the Davy Crockett material... and a lot of these parents... were children during the Depression... and had to go without." "And so it was very easy, when little Junior wanted... that one more Crockett item, to go ahead and buy it." "And from a cultural standpoint, the 1950s were... kind of characterized by mobility." "You had the move to suburbia." "The economic growth had fueled cars." "They were affordable now." "You had the creation... of the greatest highway system in the world." "And so they were ever-itinerant, looking for something better." "Well, that was Davy." "Davy was always on the move looking for something better." "And most important of all, from a cultural standpoint... from the Fifties, you have television." "We were becoming a TV culture." "At that point, a lot of the definition... of what home was was where the TV was." "But not everybody had sets, and so with that... you shared your TV with your friends... with your neighbors, especially children." "And so it had a real communal sense to it... as far as watching the "Crockett" series... and re-enacting the series." "I think if you remove the Crockett craze... and place it five years later... you'd get an entirely different impact." "So the Crockett craze really says a great deal... about the 1950s." "Tell us some of the other phenomena... that occurred during this time." "Throughout 1955, Davy Crockett... became the perennial write-in vote... and, in once case, even won a post... of Judge of Elections in Pittsburgh." "He entered the U.S. House of Congress... where three representatives..." "one from Texas... one from North Carolina, and one from Tennessee... engaged in a very spirited debate over the right... to claim the birthright of Davy Crockett." "And in reality, Crockett was born in North Carolina... or what was the state of North Carolina... ten years before Tennessee would become a state." "And it would eventually..." "the area where he was born... would become a part of the state of Tennessee." "But as they closed up, it was interesting... that the representative from Tennessee noted... that regardless of what facts... the fellow from North Carolina had... that the record would stand that Davy was born..." ""on a mountaintop in Tennessee"." "As clever, as imaginative... as creative as Walt Disney was... he couldn't make this happen again, could he?" "Nothing Disney has done..." "nothing anybody has done... nothing has come close to it." "Before, during, after, or, I believe, since."