"[ Male Interrogator Speaking Arabic]" "[Speaking Arabic]" "[Interrogator] [Speaking Arabic]" "[Interrogator]" "[Speaking Arabic] [Interrogator]" "[Saﬁm Hamdan Narrating In Arabic]" "[Children Chattering In Distance]" "[Abu Jandal Speaking Arabic]" "[Habeeb Speaking Arabic] [Jandal]" "[Habeeb Speaking Arabic]" "[Jandal] [Habeeb]" "[Man Laughs]" "[Horns Honking]" "[Chattering] [Horn Honks]" "[Honks]" "[Men Singing In Arabic]" "[Continues]" "[Horn Honks]" "[Stops]" "[Woman Speaking Arabic]" "[Horn Honks]" "[Honking]" "[Hamdan Narrating In Arabic]" "[Vehicles Passing] [People Chattering]" "[Woman Speaking Arabic]" "[Saboor]" "[Girl Speaking Arabic]" "[Horns Honking]" "[Horn Honks ]" "[Jandal Speaking Arabic]" "[Speaking Arabic]" "[Ali] [Jandal]" "[Man Speaking Arabic]" "[Ali Speaking Arabic]" "[Man Speaking Arabic]" "[Man Speaking Arabic]" "[Man Speaking Arabic]" "[Man #2 Speaking Arabic]" "[Man Speaking Arabic]" "[Jandal Speaking Arabic]" "[Man] I do not represent the United States." "Uh, I represent only Salim Hamdan." "[Man Speaking Arabic]" "The government has alleged that Mr. Hamdan... has conspired with unnamed senior leaders of Al-Qaeda to commit terrorism." "[Speaking Arabic]" "I can tell you today that these charges are nothing short of absurd." "He took a, uh, paying job that paid $250 a month driving for, uh, Sheikh Osama bin Laden." "I think the problem with Mr. Hamdan's case, as I said, is one of guilt by association." "Americans, and particularly the American government, cannot understand... how bin Laden had farmers, had mechanics, had, uh, cooks." "They see Mr Hamdan standing next to bin Laden and so, therefore, he must be a terrorist." "And I look forward to exposing this, uh, at-at the trial in May of Mr. Hamdan." "[Jandal Speaking Arabic]" "[Man Translating Into English]" "Well, as-as I said earlier, the use of coerced confessions is one of the fundamental problems of the Military Commissions." "And we will challenge those, the admissibility of those statements in, uh- in open court." "The American government is terrified of exposing, uh, the coercive methods... that it has used against some of the brothers in Guantanamo." "[Man Speaking Arabic]" "[Ali Speaking Arabic]" "[Speaking Arabic]" "[Jandal Speaking Arabic]" "[Horn Honks]" "[Ali]" "[Jandal]" "[Ali]" "[Jandal]" "[Horn Honks]" "[Horn Honks] [Jandal]" "[Clock Ticking]" "Al-Qaeda operatives who have been close to bin Laden... don't give interviews on television... until now." "We went to Yemen, at the tip of the Arabian Peninsula, to meet a man who, for a long time, was bin Laden's personal bodyguard." "Abu Jandal was the name by which he was known in Al-Qaeda." "Do you think he's for real?" "Do you think he is who he says he is?" "I do think he is who he says he is." "What he says about events, people, Al-Qaeda, meshes very thoroughly with what we know, um, from both unclassified sources and from classified intelligence." "How close were you to Osama bin Laden when you were with him?" "[Speaking Arabic] [Male Interpreter] A meter to a meter and a half away at most." "And what kind of weapon did you carry?" "[Speaking Arabic] [Interpreter] I had my own gun, but there was also a special gun to be used if Sheikh Osama bin Laden was attacked... and we were unable to save him, in which case, I would have to kill him." "As far as value goes, how does he compare to most of the prisoners in Guantanamo?" "Oh, I think he's probably far more important than anybody we've got in Guantanamo... because he had a direct exposure to Osama bin Laden." "He's very, very knowledgeable about the organization worldwide." "If it were up to you, would he be locked up somewhere?" "Oh, sure." "Uh, any-anyone who is as dedicated as he is, we ought to be taking care of them one way or another." "[Man Chanting In Distance]" "[Speaking Softly]" "[Chanting In Arabic]" "[Praying In Arabic]" "[Horn Honks] [People Chattering]" "[Arabic Music]" "[Man Speaking Arabic]" "[Horn Honks] [Man #2]" "[Man] They're not trying to get the government to arrest them." "[Camera Shutter Clicking]" "Jihad circles or jihad?" "Um, we've been talking about what you called the older generation of Al-Qaeda." "Tell me about the younger generation." "What" " I know they have a different attitude sometimes, some of them anyway" "Tell me all about it- as much as you can about that." "[Speaking Arabic]" "[Interpreter Speaking English, Faint]" "[Interpreter Continues, Faint]" "[Worth] Yeah." "[Shutter Clicking]" "[Interpreter]" "[Interpreter Continues, Faint]" "[Worth] This is dangerous for you." "Do you have, um, some way of- a way of protecting yourself?" "[Interpreter Speaking Arabic]" "[Interpreter Continues]" "[Man Speaking Arabic]" "[Horn Honks]" "[Man Speaking Arabic]" "[Female Interpreter] Uh, before, his nickname, it was Abu Hamza, okay?" "Then they called them- they called him, Abu what?" "Jandal." "Abu Jandal." "[Laura Poitras] Okay, tell me the story that's" "Change?" "how you got the name." "Where does the name come from?" "What does it mean?" "[Female Interpreter Speaking Arabic] Who gave it to you?" "[Interpreter Chuckles]" "[Woman Singing In Arabic]" "[Mizer] We look forward to, in the Military Commission's process, uh, defending Mr. Hamdan and proving that he is, in fact, a driver and a mechanic, um, before the Commission." "And with that, we can take any of your questions." "[William Glaberson] Would you further elucidate on what you mean by describing him as a driver and mechanic?" "Well, that he's a driver and mechanic, not a member of Al-Qaeda, and not guilty of, uh, materially supporting terrorism." "[Glaberson] Does that mean you anticipate him being acquitted here?" "[Chuckles]" "Um, Bill, l-l think I, uh— what I said in court, I don't know, an hour ago, is the case." "Uh, this trial is gonna be deﬁcient." "Uh, it is gonna proceed." "But it's not gonna be full, open and fair as the government has, uh— has alleged." "There are fundamental flaws in, uh— in this system." "Um, I don't know that I can predict an acquittal." "Swing!" "Ooh!" "Ooh!" "[Hamdan Narrating]" "[Horns Honking] [People Chattering]" "[Man On TV Speaking Arabic]" "[Man #2 On TV]" "[Man #3 On TV]" "[Habeeb Speaking Arabic]" "[Big Band:" "Upbeat]" "[Continues]" "She's a little princess" "[Theme] [Voices Speaking Arabic]" "[Speaking Arabic]" "[Speaking Arabic]" "[Female Interpreter]" "[Children Chattering]" "[Speaking Arabic]" "[Speaking Arabic]" "[Speaking Arabic]" "[Speaking Arabic]" "[Saboor Speaking Arabic]" "[Speaking Arabic]" "[Jandal's Wife Speaking Arabic]" "[Jandal]" "[Bird Squawking]" "[Hamdan Narrating]" "[Thunder Rumbling]" "[People Chattering In Arabic]" "[Laughs] [Object Clatters On Floor]" "[Man Speaking Arabic]" "[Saboor Speaking Arabic]" "[People Chattering]" "[Female Reporter] Hamdan was very serious." "He kept on wiping his face and eyes." "I don't know if it was because he was sweating or crying, but he did seem, um, stressed." "[Male Reporter] Some of the evidence that they're getting admitted would not be admitted in regular federal courts." "[Mate Reporter #2] What happened was for the last full day, an FBI agent, who interrogated Hamdan at great length, testified about all of the top Al-Qaeda figures that his defendant knew." "[Female Reporter] Obviously, one of the biggest surprises in the opening statement was saying that, uh, Hamdan knew about the target of the fourth airplane." "[Female Journalist] Is the family coming?" "No." "Any member of the family?" "No." "We— We have videotapes that, uh— that I took in Yemen." "But, uh, we were unable to arrange for their personal presence for, uh— for depositions." "[Man] We'd, of course, requested his wife to be here." "We were informed that because she's married to someone who is accused of terrorism, she can't come." "Sir, would you mind standing behind the podium, I mean right- just for the sound byte." "Sure, sure." "Thanks." "Okay." "I don't have any statements." "So if anybody has any questions, I'm happy to answer them." "[Glaberson] Is there some sort of sense of embarrassment by the prosecution... that your ﬁrst big case... is the lowest possible seeming type of functionary in Al—Qaeda?" "Why is this the ﬁrst case?" "Uh, no, there's no sense of embarrassment." "We have never suggested that he was higher than he ist." "He is a war criminal." "We will establish that he is a war criminal." "The jury will make its decision." "Should the jury return a verdict of guilty, then the jury will consider all of the evidence that's been admitted already on the merits." "He's not the lowest possible person, that's for sure." "[Glaberson] It's hard to think about exactly who could be lower, but" "Do you know if in Nuremberg, the enterprise was dedicated toward prosecuting people of this type?" "We welcome the analogies." "and we sure welcome you to place the rules of Nuremberg against the rules that we're following here." "And you will ﬁnd these rules to be much more robust, much more friendly to the defense, much more advanced, considerably more due process." "[Shutter Clicks] In my opinion, the most just... war crimes trial that anybody has ever seen." "[Interrogator Speaking Arabic]" "[Jandal Speaking Arabic]" "[Jandal Praying In Arabic]" "[Praying In Arabic Continues]" "[Horn Honks] [Vehicles Passing]" "[Wind Whistling]" "[Bin Laden Speaking Arabic]" "[Men Chattering] [Arabic Continues]" "[Speaking Greetings In Arabic]" "[Speaking Arabic]" "[Man] [Jandal]" "[Coughs]" "[Laughing]" "[Laughing]" "[Man Speaking]" "[Laughing]" "[Man #2]" "[Man #3] [Laughter]" "[Man #2]" "[Ali]" "[Ali]" "[Poitras] Would you say yes, I would" "[Female Interpreter] To participate in that- Yeah, in this operation?" "She's asking now- [Speaks Arabic]" "[Interpreter]" "[Interpreter] He said no." "If Osama bin Laden asked him to participate, he would not." "[Poitras] Why?" "[Interpreter Speaking Arabic]" "[Interpreter Continues]" "[Horn Honking]" "[Ali Speaks Arabic] Ah." "[Horn Honks ]" "[Horn Honking Continues]" "[Poitras] Give me specifics." "So one would come" " They just traveled for two weeks, and you would see them?" "[Interpreter Interpreter Speaking Arabic]" "[Vehicles Passing]" "[Speaking Arabic]" "[Interpreter Speaking Arabic]" "[Miller Speaking English]" "[Interpreter] Which one ?" "[Laughter]" "[Miller]" "[Miller] The American people, by and large, don't know the name bin Laden, but they soon likely will." "Do you have a message for the American people?" "[Interpreter Speaking Arabic]" "[Sniffs]" "[Speaks Arabic]" "[Female Interpreter]" "[Woman Singing In Arabic]" "[Boy Chattering]" "[Miller] I don't think that you're gonna get any more than, uh- than that- that there was a missed opportunity- l—I said squandered opportunity, and that's accurate." "[Woman] We don't know much about the jurors." "From what you know about them, do you think whatever that squandered opportunity was... is going to have an Impact on their deliberations?" "Is it something that they would, and should, take into consideration?" "They would, and should, take it into consideration, yes." "I-It goes directly to his intent, whether or not he is a Al-Qaeda warrior... or whether or not he's a salaried driver... who, uh, provided valuable intelligence to the United States... on bin Laden's whereabouts, operations, safe houses" "valuable information, uh, in a timely manner." "I think that it was very important for us to get out that information, and that's what we did in that closed session." "And, uh, it's my hope, as I said the other day, that eventually... you and the American public can, uh— can ﬁnd out exactly what that squandered opportunity was." "[Vehicle Horns Honking]" "[Ali Speaking Arabic]" "[Jandal Speaking Arabic]" "Mmm." "[Ali] [Jandal]" "[Ali]" "[Jandal]" "[Man]" "[Jandal]" "[Man]" "[Man]" "[Man Speaking Arabic]" "[Horns Honking]" "[Man Singing Arabic On Radio]" "[Horn Honking] [Man Shouts]" "[Horn Honking]" "[Singing On Radio]" "[Man]" "[Female Interpreter Speaking Arabic]" "[Interpreter]" "[Interpreter Speaking Arabic]" "[Jandal]" "[Chattering]" "Mr. Soufan, thank you for being with us." "[Soufan] Thank you, sir." "From my experience, I strongly believe... that It is a mistake to use what has become known as enhanced interrogation techniques." "These techniques, from an operational perspective, are slow, ineffective, unreliable... and harmful to our efforts to defeat Al-Qaeda." "An example of a successful interrogation... is that of Al-Qaeda terrorist known as Abu Jandal." "In the immediate aftermath of 9/11, together with my partner, Special Agent Robert McFadden, we obtained a treasure trove of highly significant actionable intelligence... that proved instrumental in the war efforts against Al-Qaeda and Taliban... in the fall of 2001." "It included extensive information... on everything from Osama bin Laden's network and modus operandi... to details on individual operatives, some we later apprehended." "The approach we used was completely by the book." "The interrogator uses a combination... of interpersonal, cognitive and emotional strategies... to extract the information needed." "If done correctly, this approach works quickly and effectively... because it outsmarts the detainee, using a method that he is not trained, nor able, to resist." "The approach is in sharp contrast of the enhanced interrogation method." "I stood up then for the same reasons I'm willing to take on critics now- because I took an oath swearing to protect this great nation." "[Waves Breaking]" "[Woman] The jury found Salim Hamdan not guilty... on the most serious charge of conspiracy to commit murder, and they found him guilty on five counts out of eight... on the other charge of providing material support to terrorism." "At the end of the verdict, Mr. Hamdan broke down into tears." "and after we spoke to a defense lawyer, he said this was because Mr. Hamdan didn't understand what exactly was going on." "He just heard the word "guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty"... and didn't realize that actually some of it was "not guilty."" "The members applied the law, and I think they reached a just verdict in that sense." "And the problem, I understand- the problem is... that the law was speciﬁcally written after the fact... to target Mr. Hamdan, and that's where you lose justice." "If there was justice, Mr. Hamdan would have been completely acquitted today." "But that's not the members' fault." "They did the job they were given to do, and we'll try and get justice tomorrow in sentencing." "I point out that there were acquittals at the Court of Star Chamber as well, and I don't think that anyone today would say that, uh, the Court of Star Chamber is a model of justice." "And in fact, many of the abuses of that court... resulted in the Habeas Corpus Act of 1640... and, ultimately, 150 years later, our Fifth Amendment, which doesn't apply here in Guantanamo Bay." "To a complete outsider, it is very interesting to see... that somebody from the American military can be defending people... who are, you know, alleged to have had a role in Al—Qaeda." "I think it's important for the United States, uh, to provide these men with a fair trial." "And I think this was a unique opportunity that I was asked to, uh— to participate in- uh, to defend, in essence, the Constitution itself, um, the fundamental values that are core to, uh" "to American society." "Um— and that's really what is at stake in these trials." "Uh— Go ahead." "Oh." "We're on?" "Yeah." "Do you want me to ask you a question?" "No, no, no." "I'll just make a couple quick comments." "Right." "Well, as we've seen here over the past several weeks, Mr. Hamdan did, in fact, receive a full and fair trial." "He was found guilty of material support to terrorism, ﬁve speciﬁcations of eight that he was charged with." "And as we can see, the Military Commissions process is moving forward." "Well, no, uh, if you could answer." "So a lot of people are saying the most serious charges he was not found guilty on, and if he had been charged in 2004, the material support didn't even exist as a charge, so this is not good for the government." "The Military Commissions Act of 2006 clearly codiﬁed what the role of military commissions would be, and we stand by the panel's decision." "We respect the decision, and we're gonna move forward." "He was convicted of material support to terrorism, and, uh, we're gonna respect that decision." "[Woman] Mr. Hamdan, um, got off." "He thanked, uh, the jury, uh, the judge, his defense team." "So a very emotional, dramatic moment for this verdict, which is much more lenient than most people expected." "[Woman] Uh, a question for Mr. Swift." "I noted in your closing arguments, you've been with this case for five years." "How do you feel about this- the jury's- the verdict and then the sentencing?" "How does that make you feel as, uh, being one of the persons on his defense team the longest?" "When I came down to Guantanamo Bay," "I fully expected to meet someone like KSM." "I had no expectation of meeting somebody like Salim Hamdan, somebody the jury met over the last three weeks." "The most difficult moments for me... would be the things that I would see, I would wonder, will anyone ever see this person?" "Will they know who this man really is?" "This gracious, kind" "He made some mistakes, but he was a gracious, kind... guy" "And we saw it." "It's marvelous at the end, where you see him spontaneously stand up- l've never seen that- and thank and apologize at the same time." "And that's Mr. Hamdan." "[Glaberson] In some of the secret testimony, it seemed that you suggested... that he perhaps was supplying information... beyond what you described in public... to help the Americans try to find Osama bin Laden." "Is he safe to return to Yemen?" "[Clicks Tongue] I hope so, Bill." "I hope so." "[Woman Vocalizing]" "[Horn Honking]" "[Hamdan Narrating]" "[Speaking Arabic]" "[TV Host]" "[Coughing]" "[Children Chattering]" "[Excited Shouting]" "[Squealing]" "[Shouting, Squealing Continue]" "[Child Screaming]" "[Child Speaking Arabic]" "[Woman]" "[Jandal Continues]" "[Jandal]" "[Repeating Words, Quietly]" "[Repeating Words]" "[Repeating Words]" "[Repeating Words]" "[Repeating Words]" "[Repeating Words]" "[Repeats Words]" "[Repeats Words]" "[Repeating Words]" "[Repeats Words]" "[Repeating Words]" "[Repeats Words]" "[Repeating Words]" "[Repeats Words]" "[Repeating Words]" "[Woman Vocalizing]" "[Continues]" "[Ends]" "[Horn Honking]" "[Bird Chirping]" "[Chattering In Distance]" "[Waves Breaking]"