"I want to be a jockey when I grow up, ya I want to be a jockey when I grow up" "I'm down for Heathfield and" "South of Amena... we are going to Africa and trying to teach people" "I don't think you want to go to university if you want to be an astronaut" "I'd like to find out all about the moon and all that" "Is it important to fight?" "yes!" "I want to be a jockey when I grow up, ya I want to be a jockey when I grow up" "Tony was already an apprentice at Tommy Gosling's Racing Stables in Epsom when he left school at fifteen." "this is a photo finish of when I rode at Newbury" "I'm the one with the white cap" "I was beaten a length and a half for third and I had a photo finish so I took it out the box and kept it as a souvenir" "What would you do if you don't make it as a jockey?" "I don't know if I knew I couldn't be one I'd get out of the game" "I wouldn't bother" "What do you think you would do then?" "learn taxis" "Tony didn't make it as a jockey." "He had three races, wasn't placed and gave it up." "At 21 he was 'doing the knowledge' 21 learning to be a London cabbie" "I will be a cab driver and I know I will and I'm going to prove every person who think I can't be a cab driver wrong and I'm going to get that badge and put it right in their face" "just to tell them how wrong they can be and how under estimated I am it's surprising who you pick-up, you see.." "I once met Kojak, I picked him up and Warren Mitchell or Alf Garnett, you know..." "Alf Garnett and I said "oh Hello Warren, how are you mate?" "good to see ya."" "so he ends up saying "I want to go to Langan's Brasserie you know Stratton Street, Langan's"" "so half way there I said listen, I said "Warren, it wouldn't..." "I said "It wouldn't be you if you don't sort of.." "come out with Alf you know, I mean.. give us a.." "Alf let's see how he's going you know"" "so straight away he's brought Alf Garnett to life Alf Garnett in the back of me cab so we are on the way to Langan's and all I can hear is Alf Garnett Alf Garnett" ""you know... it's the labour government"" "when we get there" "I said "thanks Warren, terrific mate. 1.18 118 so he gave me exactly 1.18 118 listen, I said "I know you're Alf Garnett and you're having trouble.." Alf Garnett" "I said "but I want you to become Warren Mitchell now.." "my tip is 20 odd pence or whatever..." 20 he said "son..."" "as Alf Garnett still Alf Garnett" ""you know Alf's doing bad at the moment I can't afford it" Alf and he walked away and like... he done me like a kipper" "What does it take to be a good cabbie?" "I think myself, a happy-go-lucky character and take as much as what any other person couldn't take in a normal job because it's a big world out there and everyone is a different character that I pick up" "their attitudes... some of them like the city gents, the typical" ""Waterloo, driver please, in five minutes"" "I sort of say "Hold on mate I'll get my helicopter out of the boot."" "I love being a taxi driver I like the outdoor life the independance, there's no one to govern me or say" ""you've got to be in at a certain time."" "sometimes on Saturday mornings I go to the pictures sometimes with my friends and sometimes with him you don't!" "I do!" "she don't" "I don't ever see ya!" "you go to different pictures" "Have you got a girlfriend?" "no" "Would you like to have a girlfriend?" "no do you understand 'the four F's?" "' F find them, feed them and forget them for the other F I'll let you use your own discrimination Ffuck" "I mean... this one" "I tried the three F's F but I couldn't forget her" "I used to work in a pub just on Friday nights barmaids... barmaiding... and then and then from there one night I went to a discotheque he was in the pub earlier on afterwards we went to a discotheque and Tony was standing there" "and I just..." "from there I just... that was it" "I couldn't get rid of him" "And why did you fall in love with him?" "I don't know" "I don't know how you've put up with me for so long sometimes I don't know how I stand him but what is it that you love about..." " I like his personality it doesn't matter who it is he don't change for nobody there's only one ambition really I want a baby son if I see my baby son that is my ambition fulfilled no one know that only you now" "we've got two children Nicky's six and a half" "Jodi's two and a half nearly three and I'm having another one in March" "Who looks after them?" "Or, do you share it up?" "me basically, yeah he does take them out quite a lot but" "telling offs and smacks is all left to me" "I have to do all of that he don't like smacking them he don't like telling them off unless it's really.. really.." " anything serious then I would there you are..." "see that baby one?" "So what advantages do you think you've had over some of the other people we've filmed?" "well.. academically, probably they've had more advantages over me either by the fact they've had prep schools from a very early age they've benefited by it which, you know, it tells obviously in this film" "but as far as, you know, the stability and the backgrounds with their parents they've missed out on that" "Ton.." "I don't like them near me" " come on - have a piece of bread each here Jodi.." "Jodi.." "being in a prep school they're missing the love and the care of what every" "Eastender always gets you know, gives their children each time they come home from work and the parents, you know sometimes obviously are not going to be there cause they are away at prep school they're missing the love and affection you know, what they are craving for" "when my kids are growing up, I want to see the change in them, all the time so I have my own memories of when they was a kid and how they were you know and what they were like" "would everybody please sit round now and get on with their work?" "I don't want to see any backs to me there shouldn't be anyone turning around Tony, do you hear as well?" "get on with your work in front" "Tony!" "don't turn around again!" "education is just a thing to say "my son is higher than him"" "or "my son had a better background than him"" "I mean" "I'm as good or even better than most of them people especially on this program" "I mean" "I'm one of the tailenders you'll think oh the Eastend boy he ain't got a no good education... but all of a sudden the Eastend boy's got a car, motorbike and he goes to Spain every year" "and whatever and have I worked for it?" "no, I'm here putting bets on and you think "how does he do it?"" "and there's a boy, who's he?" "and whatever he's studying to be a professor, he's making up the things where's the education, there's no education in this world it's just one big rat race and you've got to kill your man next to you to get in front of him" "education, when I said "there's no education"" "yes, there is an education I made a grave mistake in saying that but, I didn't mean to say there's no education as far as academically yes, there is the area, the environment and education makes a person have more opportunities in this world" "you know, I mean that's.. that's obvious" "Let's talk about the kids." "Do you want for them what you had for yourself?" "In terms of schooling and everything?" "you're talking about.. my childhood five years old upwards to 7, 8, 9 59" "I had no money, my father had no money" "I wore my brother's clothes for ten years these hand-me-down's are sort of going on my arms with holes on them" "I've never had any opportunities to better myself because I was a kid" "I never knew no better my mum and dad, you know my dad's got.. you know he's.." "he couldn't work" "I'm not making a violin story out of this" "I mean, that's the way it was?" "and I'm more stronger it happened that way I mean, I'm a more stronger person" "I appreciate things more now and now I'm in a position through my job you know, to give my kids the life I never had like.." "lovely clothes" "I go to holidays, you know, I go to Portugal and I go to Spain hopefully America next year" "I mean, I want everything" "I never had to go, you know, on my kids to say, you know... let them know the benefits of the nice life and what's it's all about they're precious!" ""oh yes... oh yes... oh yes..."" "they're nuts!" "you just have to touch them... yeah, they.. well, they can get what they want, can't they?" "If you've got to work for it and it's them that can just ask for money and get it and they can buy what they want" "I've learned through driving a cab that people are individuals whatever they are.. upperclass or, you know, middleclass or.." "as in my case, you know, an Eastender but" "I'm only glad, you know, that I've found out the difference at an early age so i can judge people.." "on what they are rather than who they are" "I'm not a politician so let them worry about what's coming for the next day all I understand is dogs, prices, girls, knowledge, roads, streets, squares and mum and dad and love that's all I understand that's all I want to understand" "four and a half fifties, four and a half fifties, four and 501" "At 21 he was earning a bit extra as a bookie's runner at Hackney Wick." "21" "What do they call you here?" "I reckon a pest, or something like that" "I don't mean to make a nuisance of myself" "I mean if for other patrons of the place they don't want to see a little boy nipping between their feet running, putting a bet on here for a face they don't understand, they think "cor what's he doing is he mad?"" "I mean, I walk up there and I order the teas there could be eight people in front of me, I just go..." ""can I have a tea please.. tea pleas" five times, "tea please.. tea please.."" "and they've gotta serve me before them or get rid of me do you understand?" "so that's how you've got to do it" "I'm in two golf societies and each month, all of the members of each society meet to play a game of golf" "and who are the guys you play with?" "well, they are mostly publicans or taxi drivers, you know and.." "we always end up, you know, have a small bet" "Do you like the whole social side of it?" " only with my mates because on a golf course it becomes the very.. snooty type, you know" "I mean, I understand they've got to pay 400 a year for membership 400 and they don't, you know, really want anyone without any etiquitte to go on the golf course and ruin their so called golf course, right?" "that's good.." "great shot.. great shot.." "it does get a bit.. a pain sometimes you know when when they keep saying "excuse me sir, are you a member?"" "it comes out like that obviously etiquette's etiquette so you've got to conduct yourself on these type of courses cause I think.." "you're a bit smaller than most people you try and hit the ball hard you've got to just.." "it'll get there where'd he go?" " I'm over here oh.." "I missed that one - unlucky.. keep hold of her" " it's about an eight to the.." " too much mate.. too much no it ain't.. no it ain't.. no.." "Ton.. hit an eight it's definitely an eight - no that's too much club Ken" " eight, hit an eight - no.. no.. give us a nine mate nine, I think that's about right - if you hit a nine, hit it to the right" "that's it.. that's it.. that's perfect.." "great shot that's a great shot now I, am a young fella and I've come to you" "I heard that you are a big successful taxi driver - you want advice?" " yes I..." " I've been a film extra now for six years" "It may not go no futher I mean I'm just.." "having acting lessons.." " you give me the benefit of all of your experience alright?" "now you've got to feel pretty big, bigger than me" " just go?" " right there!" "here we go!" " tell me son, what do you want to be a cab driver for mate?" " well, make a lot of money you know, have a good life" " son, look at me, I might be a successful business man" "I might have the suit.." "I might have the.." "all the holidays in Spain every year but son it's hard work out there mate" " you're not reaching me yet - not getting to you" " no, you're not getting to me, alright?" "now be bigger, dominate me, alright?" " son!" " yeah?" "son, it's a big world out there and obviously I'm not.." "I can't get into it Warren - alright, don't worry" " when I was in The Sweeney and when I was in Churchill:" "The Wilderness Years The Sweeney1975 Churchill:" "The Wilderness Years1981" "I see the actors and I thought, like you know it's not quite easy to act on stage cause it's you know, you need time and dedication, it's very hard" " son!" "tell me why do you want to be a taxi driver!" "well you know you've got success" " don't let.. don't let looks go impressing..." "I mean, listen" " What excites you about acting?" "I like it, I mean, I think of me self, you know" "I can do that, I still want to have a go of it, I mean nothing for sort of fame or fortune or anything like that big hollywood and bright lights it's nothing like that, just a side line" "So, what drives you then through all of these various ambitions?" "it's a philosophy of not keeping still, I mean.." "I'm a very overactive type of person, I mean.." "I like to feel that I don't want to keep still because life, you know, don't wait for nobody so you've gotta cram it in as much as you can before your days are numbered" "I mean, I may be a happy-go-lucky type of fellow, which I am" "I'm an Eastender which the attitude is, "allo' mate, alright, how are ya?"" "type of thing" "I wouldn't want to lose that" "How long are you going to be a cab driver?" "Is this what you want to do for the rest of your life?" "well, at the moment, I'm very happy driving a cab but.." "my wife and I always considered owing our own pub so obviously, I think, within two or three years once I get financially straightened out" "I'm going to have a go at being a publican and if I don't like it say, if I give it a go for a year or even six months if I don't like being a publican" "I'm in a good position to say get rid of the pub and go back to taxi driving" "I don't want to change because if I change it proves that Tony Walker was all fake" "fifty five to twenty, Boris" " What are the best times for you?" "two, two really the best.." "time is when the kids.." "the first baby was born the next one, obviously, Jodi but my greatest fulfillment in life" "when I.. when I rode at Kempton in the same race as Lester Piggott" "I was a naive, wet behind the ears, apprentice and the governor told me "you've got to ride son"" ""Friday, you've got to lose x-amount of weight"" "which I did.. eight pounds in four days 47.264 and he says like, I go in there, and they're all there, you know" "I'm part of it all my years, from seven, all my ambition is fulfilled in one moment when the longfellow comes out and I'm in with him, like in the same.." "the starter is calling out to register the names and he'll sortta go like "Piggott, draw, eight.." "Walker, draw, sortta ten" 8 10 and your idol, like, you're there and the big man's there, I mean money in the whole world couldn't buy that proudest day of my life" "which.. my ambition fulfilled to the highest level and" "I eventually finished last tailed off obviously, but it didn't make any difference to me just to be part of it, be with the man himself" "couldn't buy it, that was the proudest day of my whole life" "We are going to Africa... and trying to teach people... who are not civilized to be.." "more or less.." "good no, don't want to be a missionary because" "I just can't talk about it to people you know.." "I am interested in it myself but.." "I wouldn't be very good at it, at all.." " Yes Sir!" "Mohan Ali" " Yes Sir!" "Kasim Mahir" " Yes Sir!" "Oscar Ali" " Yes Sir!" "Nasril" " Yes Sir!" "Sultan" " Yes Sir!" "Abdul Khair" " I was working at an insurance company at the time and I decided to go into teaching without any experience at all and I didn't think they'd allow somebody to walk off the street into a classroom" "6 times 3 is 18, shared by 2 is 9, plus 7 is 16, so you put a 16 there 6318 29 716 16" " they were crying out for most teachers, they interviewed me they phoned me up the next day and said "would I like the job?"" "I said "yes," within five weeks.." "I was in a classroom they took one look at me and thought it was christmas, I think" "What's the most enjoyable thing about teaching?" "just being a part of the pupils advancement and learning and watching them understand more and being more confident then, getting some enjoyment and satisfaction from mathematics" "After working in the city for three years," "Bruce Started teaching at Tony's old school in the east end of London." "He lives in a local council flat within walking distance of the school." "Holden, let's hear the present tense of 'evasto'" "Evasto, evastas, evas.." "evastant evastamus, evastatis, evastant yes, speak up they don't, sort of, enforce.." "being upper class and.." "things like that.." "at St. Paul's, you know they.." "suggest that you don't have long hair and they do get it cut if.." "and.." "they teach you to be reasonably well mannered but not too sniff on the poorer people" "When we filmed him at 21, Bruce was in his last year at Oxford reading maths." "21 and you can show that this is irreducible then you do a transformation on this polynomial, x=t+2  x=t+2" " good, that's a nice way of doing it, particularly using Eisenstein down here  because his test is very powerful - yes" "It's so different from your own education where you're teaching now, why?" "general education is.." "better for society, I think public schools are divisive that's with no statement about my education my education was academically excellent and I am very grateful for it" "I think there is a class society and I think.." "public schools may.." "help its continuance" " see you're in the lead, you see.." "because DSE Cabs have got profit of 2 pounds and GOODB Cabs got no profit at all DES2 GOODB okay?" "now can you explain that just to Abdul because I want him to understand what it is.." "I don't know whether.." "I said, "right, I must do something which is against what I've been brought up to do" or whatever..." "I don't know, I just found something I find rewarding" "I didn't agree with the conservatives about what they're doing with the black people, you know racial policy" "Do you have to defend immigration to a lot of people in this area?" "yes, I think you do but those who say "there are too many coming in" and so on" "I think, really are uneducated about the whole question they should see the positive benefits that they are having in this country and see that as a result of all of this immigration they are not being denied opportunities it's not the fault of immigrants that there is unemployment" "it's part of a political parties responsibility is to explain that and show people what is the more truthful way of representing the situation none of the parties seem to agree with me and I think if I had voted I'd have voted labour" "I am about the only socialist in my village and I go into the pub and.." "sort of expect to stand up and defend all socialist policies sort of, this is the village socialist no, village idiot, sorry" "I just see their lack of opportunities for a lot of people, obviously, unemployment is a great feature in many people's lives and many family's lives and.." "teaching children, sometimes you wonder what's going to happen to them?" "it seems to me that the leader of the country at the moment should be one of the most unpopular person's in the country and yet she gets away with everything, um.." "she.. as far as I can see has done lots of damage and yet.." "nobody, nobody can oppose her my heart's desire is to see my daddy who is six thousand miles away 696" "and I can remember being happy there I can remember.." "also being miserable because I can remember crying" " hold steady!" "you know, I always seemed to be beaten on and I could never understand why" "Did it give you an overdeveloped sense of authority?" "if you look at society in general, I've always probably been on the side of authority and you know, it's been, it's been.." "an education learning that authority can be bad and.. can be corrupt" "well my girlfriend is in Africa and I won't... don't think I'll have another chance of seeing her again" "Have you go a girlfriend?" "no.. not yet" "I'm sure it will come but not yet" "I think I would very much like to.." "become involved in a family like my own family for a start that's a need I feel I ought to fulfill and would like to fulfill and would do it well I mean, I do think a lot of people think too much about it" "What happened when you burnt your fingers?" "I'd rather not talk about it really well no in fact I don't really mean that" "I don't mean I don't want to talk about it it's just I'd need quite a long time to think about it really" "I think I possibly get a little serious and uh.." "don't quite understand the modern.." "sort of.." "way of behaving, the modern manner.." "I think I'm a little old fashioned at three o' clock I'm going to come and pick you up from Arts you'll only have one art lesson so if you're art teacher forgets at five to three  2:55" "ask her to say we should be packing away and I'll come and get you" "So there you were, you went to a posh preparatory school and a major public school and to Oxford" "And now, you're in a council flat teaching in this school in the Eastend of London." "You don't feel any sense of disappointment?" "no because what I am trying to do at the moment and achieve is difficult" "It may not sound difficult in the sense that you could sum up what I do quite simply" "But behind all of that, it is very difficult and.." "I certainly find it satisfying achieving successes there may come a time when I decide I can't do it and that's not necessarily a weakness that's.." "that may be a strength that you realize you can't do it as well as you would wish" "I think the most important thing in the world is everyone should know about God" "It all springs from.." "having God and Christ I suppose that.. you try do that as best as posttible and let that lead your actions in life" "Does it sadden you when you meet people who don't believe in Christianity?" "yes, if they dismiss it casually, if they dismiss it as just being something.." ""well we know about that, we got a bit about that at school and it doesn't really mean very much"" "then it does sadden me because it's much much more than that" "What is it about that's important to you?" "well, the belief in.." "the belief in goodness and in love as being two well.. great positive forces in that.." "you know people.." "well, just the simple belief like a good act is never wasted" "certainly you can observe somebody when they are seven and identify particular things which maybe are then always with them.." "whatever else happen to them people possible say I am little to innocent at times or naive" "I used to get worried about this and think perhaps I ought not to be taken in or deceived or.." "I'm not talking about love now, I'm just talking about generally speaking but um.." "I feel that's a strength in a way if there are people who are willing to trust then.." "we should be encouraged" "Tell me, do you have any boyfriends Suzi?" "Ummm.." "yes" "Tell me about him?" "well, he lives up in Scotland and I think he's thirteen 13 and I'm rather lonely up there because he usually goes to school but we usually play till about half past six when he comes home from school" "then we go in and then.." "he goes home to do his homework" "Have you got any boyfriends Suzi?" "What is your attitude towards marriage?" "For your self?" "Well, I don't know I haven't given it a lot of thought because I'm very very cynical about it" "but then, you know, you get a certain amount of faith restored in it well, I mean, I've got friends who've and their parents are happily married and so it does put faith back into you" "but me, myself, I'm very cynical about it we were friends for about two years" "Rupert and Suzi were married five year ago." "and.." "I think the nice thing was that we knew each other very well before we knew quite a lot of the faults of.." "each other which I think's very important" "I don't sort of sit down and think, you know, analyze marriage it's not something I've had to come up and think about or that I was going to get married and I have no desire to at the moment" "I think.. twenty is far too young 20" "I suppose twenty-two is considered quite young 22" "I felt it was the right time" "I don't see what I would have gained by waiting another three years" "What gave you that feeling?" "I just felt I was doing the right thing which as you said was extraodinary when.." "only eighteen months before I was very anti it 18" "I came to London when I left school after Paris and at the moment I could never live in the country I am happier down here the country is nice for four days and you can go for healthy long walks" "but I Imean.." "I could never live up their now" "They live in a small village near Bath where Rupert is a partner in a firm of solicitors." "I had seven years up in London I suppose it was fantastic but I just had enough it's a much slower way of life down here and I'd had enough of the rat race when I get married I'd like to have two children" "I'm not very children minded at the moment and I don't know if I ever will be" "What do you think about them?" "well, I don't like babies" "What was the biggest shocks to you when you were suddenly confronted with a small baby that you had to be responsible for?" "panic set in, I think that I wasn't going to be able to cope" "Do you want a nanny to look after them?" "Or, do you want to look after them?" "I want a nanny to look after them" "I felt that we'd taken the decision to bring a child into this world and I feel that I wanted to bring him up, not somebody else" "I thought it's my responsibility to start him off whether that will make a difference to how he turns out, I don't know" "I just felt I wanted to do it" "Is it everything you wanted?" "for the moment, yes I mean, I don't think I'll have any more the reason, that I'll get pleasure out of these two but I can't see me going on and on and on" "with sort of four or five children 45" "I think I'd feel that I'd want to move on and try and do something else when I leave this school I'm down for Heathfield and South of Amena and then maybe I may want to go to a university" "but I don't know which one yet" "I'd like to do.." "a course on typing or something like that" "I left school when I was sixteen and went to Paris 16 went to secretarial college and got a job" "What made you decide to `leave school and go to Paris?" "I just wasn't interested in school and just wanted to get away" "And why did you choose Paris?" "I don't know, it was my parents really now I've got to a stage in my life where I've got to make my own decisions" "you've got to learn to fend for yourself one day" "I went to prep school boarding when I was nine" "Rupert went at eight and the both of us hated it" "I hated my prep school" "I just feel it's too young to send a child off and we both feel that we would never send Thomas and Oliver off probably maybe until they're thirteen 13" "I think eight is much too young 8 so we will definitely keep them at home" "Do you still want to send them in the private sector to school?" "I think we will, yes but.. as I said not until they are thirteen 13" "Why do you choose the private sector opposed to the state?" "I suppose it's what we had, it's what we know" "I think both of us probably were very sheltered it's only having been abroad that you can appreciate more that people are very different cultures are different but I think as I was growing up I think probably I was far too sheltered" "What do you think about making this program?" "I think it's just ridiculous, I don't see any point in doing it" "I've been very lucky up to a certain point but everyone has their bad times" "I'm really just beginning and I'm really young and.." "and I'll probably have a lot worse that what I've been through now when you're a child you always think how nice it would be to be grown up and independent.." "but there are times when I wish I was three again" "It just seems a miracle to me that when I last saw you at twenty one you were.." "21 nervous, you were chain smoking, you were uptight and now you seem happy." "What's happened to you over these past seven years?" "I suppose Rupert" "I'll give you some credit" "I'm now chain smoking" "no, I didn't know where I was going at twenty one 21" "I mean, I suppose I thought I was reasonably happy at twenty one but I had no kind of direction, no.." "I obviously hadn't found what I'd wanted" "I don't think most people have at twenty one 21 you're still very very young" "As a teenager Suzi spent her school holidays on her father's estate in Scotland" "What sort of things do you do?" "ride, swim, play tennis, ping-pong" "I might play croquet things like that" "What about the social life?" "what in Perthshire?" "it's quite fun well with any child going through their parents spitting up at age fourteen, you're at a very vulnerable age 14 age and it does cut you up but.." "nut you know, you get over it, it's not.." "There's no point in them staying together for me, because it was worse" "I mean, the rides... it's worse if two people can't live together there's no point making themselves my father died three years ago it's very hard to describe to somebody how you just take the loss" "It is terribly hard and even now I still can't believe my father's not here it's still sinking in I think even after two and a half years." "he was off in Scotland" "It was in that very bad winter of '81 81 and we were literally snowed in and I couldn't get out and it was three weeks before Thomas was born and.." "and I wasn't allowed to fly, no airline would take me and the trains were blocked from the snow and so I couldn't get there" "and I feel.." "I still feel guilty that I didn't try and um.." "get myself out of here to go, but.." "you know, when you're told you could endager a babies life, you have to rather sit.. sit still the death of one of your close family is probably something you don't ever get over and it's a different kind of" "problem than anything else and it is hard to come to terms with" "And it was really last year that it sunk in that he really wasn't around anymore" "What do you want most out of life?" "to be happy, and get on with life" "I mean, I don't want to just sit back and let it all whiz past" "I mean, you don't know how long you've got your life for you know, you could get run over by a bus tomorrow so you've got to make the most of it while you've got it" "Do you have any fears for the future?" "For yourself?" "no, not so much for myself at all" "I feel if I was going to have fallen by the wayside, I'd have done it by now" "I think probably I'm.." "too staid now to do that but maybe I'm wrong" "when I grow up" "I'd like to.." "find out all about the moon and all that" "At seven, Nick, a farmer's son was at a one room village school in the Dales." "7" "I said I was interested in physics and chemistry well, I'm not going to do that here" "At 14, he was going to a Yorkshire boarding school, 14 and at 21, was reading physics at Oxford." "21" " plug it in - we'll give it a whirl" "So what career are you going to pursue?" "It depends on whether I'll be good enough to do what I want to really do" "I would like, if I can, to do research" "He is now in America, an assistant professor at the University of Wisconsin earning 30,000 dollars a year 3" "The gas in these experiments is at a temperature comparable with that of the sun whereas in a power reactor it would be maybe 10 times thetemperatureof thesun and we're trying to induce that gas to fuse" "the fusion reaction gives off energy and produces the power that would  be turned into electrical energy and sent out to the consumer how hot is it in there?" "in there, it's at about ten million degrees" "Nick is a Nuclear Physicist." "He's using these high temperatures to fuse atoms." "To try to produce energy which is free from radioactivity." "..has to be precisely coordinated with the positive.." "I finished my degree in physics and I went on to do a p.h.d." "and having got the p.h.d." "after it took two and a half years to get that which was relatively quick" "I went to work at the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authorities Cullum Laboratory which is where they do fusion research and that is what I've been aiming to do throughout my p.h.d." "but I.." "but I found when I got there that I got a big shock when I found that my standard of living went down when I started work so when some people here offered me a job I thought this might be" "a good opportunity to go somewhere else where the research environment was a bit more vigorous so I came here in November of 1982, into a blizzard 198211" "the university is substantially different from an English university for several reasons it's a much bigger university" "Oxford had 10,000 people, this has 40,000 people" "I guess the mixture of people who come here are different a far bigger fraction of the population go to university here" "Oxford is full of people who really are trying to prove something, I suppose or be something a lot of people with social or intellectual pretensions you're less aware of that sort of thing here" "On the other hand, the American system is much more like the comprehensive system" "England would set out to try and be;" "it takes many more people and gets a huge section of the population to a level where they're really technically very competent and can go out and make Silicon Valley work" "Do you have a girlfriend?" "I don't want to answer that" "I don't want to answer those kinds of questions" "I thought that one would come up because when I was... when I was doing the other onensomebody said "what do you think about girls?"" "I said, "I don't answer questions like that" is that the reason you're asking?" "oh, I thought so" "the best answer would be to say that I dont answer questions like that but.." "It's what I said when I was seven and it's still the most sensible but I mean 7 what about them?" "Nick was only 17 when I first met him and I knew he was a nice person 17" "I find him very attractive, and.." "he uses intelligence in his relationship with me which is very important a lot of people can be very bright.." "Nick and Jackie met while they were students at Oxford" "Jackie is doing a post-graduate course in Business Studies" "What about you Nick?" "Why did you marry Jackie?" "Because she's.." "I find her attractive, she's bright and independent and.." "If you've been somebody who.." "that had fixed ideas of a woman's role in marriage that meant dinner on the table at 6 every evening.." "didn't I tell you about that?" "I think we would've had problems or if one of us had not wanted children when I grow up" "I'd like to.." "find out all about the moon and all that" "Where did you get all this brain-power from?" "all this brain-power?" "I don't know, did it just happen?" "all this brain-power.." "that's a hard one to answer because first I have to accept that I've got all this brain-power and that's not the sort of thing I tend to go around saying but I've always been interested in, from a very early age in.." "technical or scientific things when I was very young, I had a picture-book about "the planets"" "and I thought this was wonderful and I've just been.." "interested in that sort of thing and reading technical or scientific material for a long, long time" "I was the only child my age in my village but I mangaged to spend my time talking to adults who were around" "If one is wandering down a country lane there is an awful lot to look at in the world around you" "I remember looking at various natural phenomena and being intrigued to try and understand what made them tick one time I was particularly wrapped up in how a particular cloud which was a very unusual shape you know, and how did that work?" "and that was the sort of thing that made me want to go further into natural sciences" "I think that if I'd been in a city I'd probably would've had more interaction with people and might have developed more.." "skills in dealing with other kids trying to become a reasonably well-adjusted person was for me a bit of a struggle for awhile I was given a fantastic opportunity when I went to university and that really saved my bacon" "They'd like to.." "to come out for a holiday in the country, we we like.." "when I'd like to have a holiday in the town" "I've been to Leeds a couple of times and.." "I haven't been to Manchester" "I went to London with the other... when you did the first program but that's the only time I've been.." "What attracts you about America?" "it's an exciting place to be, there's a lot going on in terms of research, and other things but I really came here to do research but.." "there are more opportunities and just a general feeling of more going on than I had previously this place is less hidebound, less bureaucratically tied down so it's much easier to go out and get things done than in England" "Do you get lonely here?" "You just tend to get stuck here into your everyday routine and you don't think about it when you call home, then you realize how far away you are and now it seems acute because our families are getting older" "even if you think in terms of seeing them once every two years" " that's not so many times, is it - you're thinking only about ten times and that's awful, when you think in those terms and realize... you really are in exile" "Does this put a pressure on your relationship?" "no, I think it binds us together because we just have one another over here" "In 21, some of the people were saying 21 that they felt it was immoral to emigrate immoral to leave." "Do you have any feelings about that since you're the one whose left?" "in my position" "I don't feel that I'm letting England down because I don't think that England particularly wanted me there doing what I was doing" "It had trained me marvelously" "I'd gone through a wonderful educational system particularly Oxford was a fantastic experience socically again, it was a great place to try and develop emotionally and the academic standards there are absolutely superb having trained in a very academic fashion there" "and I then went out to try and do something with all that training and found that society just wasn't terribly interested in what I was trying to do so how could I feel that I'm betraying a country when it doesn't want me to do" "to do what it's trained me to do?" "a really big issue for us at the moment is how we're going to manage to have kids and run two careers we don't want to miss out on the chance of having a significant career, and we don't want to miss out on the chance to have kids" "and to be involved with them but in those early formative years, would you be happy for your children to be brought up by Jackie and Jackie not be able to give them her full attention?" "well it's not.. that's putting it in a rather strange way - it's not just me" "I.. this is... this is an area..." "I pay lip service to the idea of equal shares on this as well and it remains to be seen if I would actually live up to my intention there are several things, I think, to be said here" "if we both work in academia, that will make life much easier because as things are at the moment in the States, if you have a computer at home you can come in to teach and to give office hours to your students" "but you can work half of the day from home but I don't want to be the person left behind while Nick flies in and shares an adult life with his children at college and working, I want to be there to" "Is she difficult?" "at times, yes whenever we have an argument she does have a tendency to explode, I suppose to get, no to get really miserable about it, and not.." "we've only been married four years anything could happen we could easily drift apart there are so many pressures on people you just have to work at it and that's why it's important that you have the same ideas" "that you want the same kind of life when we were in England, our big source of arguments was money we were always squabbling about money but that one, mercifully.." "it seems to have gone away pretty well, we still disagree but it isn't a major source of rows" "A person with one million pounds is not going to be much is not goint to be more unhappy than a person with two million pounds" "I've never really been aiming for money and that's curiously enough why it was such a surprise that.." "it really surprised me when I found that my standard of living mattered to me when I finished University and I found that I couldn't afford what I'd been able understood I could afford as a student" "It suddenly caught up with me for the first time in my life that I really did care about how much moneyI was getting and it didn't ever occur to me that I would if I could change the world, I'd change it into a diamond" "I'd like to think, I'm hoping that I might do at some stage but I don't really think that I've done anything that you can call a great success, I mean.." "It would seem really ridiculous to any of my friends who watch this if I said" ""Christ, aren't I a great success, look at me"" "When I first met you, I remember I thought this was very idealistic but it was rather interesting when I asked you why you're working on fusion you said that you wanted to save the world" "It was a" " I think that's a bit embarrasing now but I don't think you'd feel the same way about something that you didn't feel mattered that's right" "I picked it because I thought it really was something that could be useful to people hopefully.. eventually.." "yes, it would be a disappointment if I didn't.." "achieve very much but I'm not worrying about it very much" "I've just got to go out and make it happen" "I don't think you want to go to university if you want to be an astronaut" "What?" "changed my mind completely of course" "I think it was just the imagination a 7 year old has 7" "I might be living in cloud cuckoo land, you know mum and dad might say, "no son"" ""that's not life, you don't get a job you like"" "I'd like to think I could teachers are undervalued" "The whole system is beginning to crumble you know, people outside of it don't realize that, but it is and it's .." "very disillusioning, you know, you don't feel you're getting anywhere and of course the money as well which, whatever the papers tell you, is abysmal" "Peter left his comprehensive school in Liverpool and at 21 was studying history at London University 21 living in student digs the facts were that I'm particularly an intelligent person, just reasonably, I suppose" "I'm not a genius, I just went to college on three reasonable A levels A and just didn't do very much work for three years, just did the bare minimum turned up to lectures, wrote a few essays" "you get a degree for it and it was a joke really once Carolyn Stepford said she loved me" "and I'm going to marry her when I grow up doesn't appeal to me at all at the moment.." "I've just gone twenty 20" "I haven't even been abroad yet in my life so.." "there's no way I'm going to get settled down what was it about Peter that you fell in love with?" "who said anything about love?" "I don't.." "we have a very much the same attitude, much the same general attitude to life, even though we're very different in personality and in the things we like to do" "what is it about his personality that attracted you?" "nothing really, I don't know.." "not.." "not a great deal" "Peter and Rachel have been married four years and met at teacher training college they have just bought their first home a terraced house in the center of Leicester they both have careers" "Peter teaches in a comprehensive school" "Rachel in a college of further education there are two risks, either for one of us to follow the other around and therefore, perhaps become frustrated and dissatisfied that you didn't initially follow your own line, or your own individual wants" "or there's the risk that you take that you perhaps do have to part sometimes for jobs or whatever or, for what you particularly want to do" "I think the latter risk is much more worth taking" "So you would be prepared to part?" "Yeah, I mean obviously there is an element of compromise otherwise why get married?" "And do you have any plans for children?" "not at the moment, no but us, we haven't really thought about it seriously" "Why's that?" "well, it's because we've both got you know.." "things we'd still prefer to be doing you know, if you have children.." "that immediatlely limits you" "I don't want to be limited yet if you choose to have a family, then you also have a responsibility to children so you know..." "it's a very difficult decision and although I think most liberated men would say that they too are involved in that decision" "I think ultimately the responsibility still comes down on the woman's head is Peter liberated?" "well I think a lot of men such as Peter like to think they're liberated and I'm not in any way.." "saying that he's not but I think when it comes to the crunch you know, the absolute crunch... are you going to give up your job to look after these children?" "then I think it more often than not that decision is made by the woman rather than the man" "if you do have children, would you want them educated in the way that you've been educated?" "I don't know how things have changed but basically you've still got this emphasis on just getting through exams you know, which isn't really education cause most of the stuff you come out of school with is absolutely useless" "you don't need it" "So how would you bring them up?" "Educate them?" "well I don't know, I suppose the easy answer is.." "teach them more relevant things get them to think for themselves a bit more, which schools don't do enough" "Would you contemplate putting them into the private sector of education?" "no.. no definitely not" "Why?" "well it's just the principle, that's all there is to it." "What is the principle?" "well, the principle is that the private schools help to keep the old class system going they're part of it, they perpetuate it so I'm certainly not going to be involved in that when I came through school at the end, perhaps of the.." "well, lets say the ideals of the 60's were still there 60 even though it was the 70's 70 and, that one was always led to believe that there were golden opportunities but of course there aren't" "and very much now, people of my generation are beginning to realize what perhaps sixteen-year-olds know, now at sixteen 16" "I'm only just beginning to see that now at 27 27 that in fact, you know, there aren't.." "there's no such thing as sort of, mobility, in any sense of the word you know, it's very difficult to move up do you think you've had as fair opportunity as other people?" " oh god no" "In what way?" "a lot of people have got it made for them still, haven't they?" "they've got it all lined up how?" "well.." "like the public school.." "I don't want to slag off people who are in the program with me not slag them off personally but I mean, they had it set up for them, didn't they?" "it's a big problem, it caused a lot of discussion I think the workers do tend to take a few liberties as regards to strikes" "I would like to think that democracy is here to stay perhaps we haven't got a full democracy, in fact, we problably haven't it's a.." "it's a pretty good system are you surprised by the way England is being governed?" "I'm not surprised with the people who govern us at the moment, no" " Why?" " I've even stopped being amazed" "Why?" "why?" "well.." "I don't want to get dragged into party politics, you know but basically it's the most.." "incompetent, uncaring, bloody.. we've ever had" "Well if I can't be an astronaut, I'd like to be a Bradwell sergeant in the police force, like my dad is" "Do you want to be rich?" "I wouldn't mind" "I think once I can get myself going" "I can work solid, yeah but it's the motive which is very hard to acquire yeah.." "I'm dead lazy" " yeah.." " And how did you deal with it?" "not much" "I'm just hard to get.. you know I'm not the sort of person who can get charged up very quickly" "I am really lazy, you know if I've got things to do I'd sooner make a cup of tea first and read the paper he always looks on the negative side of life before he looks on the positive" "whereas perhaps I'm the opposite and that in a sense is an area of conflict, yes yeah, a clash of personalities" " yeah" " And how did you deal with that?" "well, as you deal with all people like that, you just give them a good.." "kick and say, you know.." ""wake up to it" you know, that kind of thing and do you see any areas of conflict in the future for you?" "In personality?" "no.. no I don't not really because I think we both appreciate each other's personalities, in fact, it would be quite dull to be exactly the same" "I mean, there is something quite exciting in being different in that it isn't as predictable you know, we're not along the same track all the time on the grass.." " we play international wrestling - yeah that's only in summertime though" "What have been for you the best times?" "Tommy Smith scoring the second goal in Rome definitely.. one of the all-times" "Which game was that?" ""Which game was that?"" "that was the European Cup final, 1977 1997" "you know, after that it was all.." "nothing else compares with it really so, it's hard to think of anything else oh, I'll tell you what was another good moment, I was um... a group I played in.." "were doing quite well..." "a few occasions, that was good" "Tell me about that." "It's just a local band, I was in till fairly recently you know, just played pubs and that, but it was very enjoyable" "You know, when you get a good reaction from people it's just one of the best things you can have really" "Do you ever get that in your work?" "no, god no." "Why?" "well, what are you asking?" "If they applaud at the end of each lesson or something?" "No, just that excitement, that communication no.. no I don't" "Do you think people change much?" "Or, do you think we saw you, the man as a 7 year old boy?" "7" "I thought for awhile that was a bit too simple, but I think it's true because after that your barriers begin to go up you learn how to fend off things like I was just saying obviously when 7 seven you don't think about it, you just come out with it 7" "so yeah, to a point you reflect that" "So the boy at 7, is in a sense, the real you?" "7" "Yeah, it's sort of.." "the essential.." "the essential Peter Davies" "There were nine other children filmed in 1963." "9" "What of them?" "If we did all um, love Geoffery, and we all want to marry him" "Yeah" "I think I know the one that he'd likes.. best.." "and that's her and I wasn't talking today and Brown sent me out for nothing" "I feel like rumbling when there' already been a fight" "If I can't be an astronaut, I think I'll be a coach driver." "I read the Financial Times" "What's happened to these children?" "Where are they and what are they doing?" "We'll see tomorrow night." "If someone comes up and starts fighting then.." "I think it serves them right" "I know the one he likes.. best.." "and it's her!" "I think it's not a bad idea to pay for school" "I'm going to work in Woolworth's" "I'd just walk around, and see what I can find" "I think I'll be a coach driver" "I don't like um.." "the big boys.." "hitting us and.." "and a prefect sending us out.. out for nothing" "I know I prefer to be alone really." "when I said that" "I know.." "I know even now, I meant that if someone dropped me out in the Sahara desert" "I probably would have been happy more or less, if you get the point" "say you had a wife say, say, say.." "say you had to eat what they cooked you and.." "and say I don't like greens, well I don't." "and say, she said" ""you have to eat, what you get"" "well I don't like greens.." "so she gives me greens.. and it.." "and that's it.." "I find it hard to express emotion most of the time though I'm getting on top of that more now, you know?" "Just the simple things to say to Susan, I love you, something like that" "I mean, I can tell you about it, but" "I really haven't been able to say it freely to Sue, you know?" "Has he proposed to you?" "yeah, it was strange, we went off and bought the engagement ring first and then I said to him, you haven't really proposed to me yet -tongue tied as you can gather, he's sort of very shy" "What was it that you fell in love with?" "What is it about him?" "his helplessness, I suppose there's the motherly instinct in me to pick him up, and cuddle him.." "he's also very good looking, I think, but he doesn't agree with me and in the summer, he's got this cute little bum in shorts" "Paul and Susan live in Melbourne, Australia" "Four years ago they sold everything they had bought an old Bedford van, and went on a trip through Central and Western Australia it took 7 months, and they travelled 15,000 miles 7 1500024000" "I think it brought us closer together because we really got to know each other and relied on each other so much" "I'd never been so relaxed in my life, I felt a lot more confident in myself just great fun really no pressures or worries, everything was forgotten" "when we got to Perth,' I was ready to fly home being together so much, it was hard but then we settled down and must have settled down really well because" "I got pregnant and everything so something must have been going right" "I think it's, now, why people like to get back to nature and like to feel that that they aren't living in the 20th Century.." "20 to me, it's just like an old dream that you wish could come true, you know living next to nature, like pioneers type of thing" "I love the place, you know" "I find it hard to put into words really, what it is you've got the country you've got bush, the outback you can do more or less anything you want, I think, here whether you can do that in England, I don't know" "I think this is the part we enjoyed the most because we really went out in the middle of nowhere where we had to carry our own petrol and our own water to do us for the 3 or 4 days we were out that way 34" "while we were up in Carnarvon, we went and stayed on a sheep station Carnavon up there with our friend from Melbourne, Bruce and It was about a million acres, just under a million acres, the sheep station 100" "Bruce from the Yanrey Station, he got ahold of sometails from the roo-shredder Yanrey so we could try kangaroo tail stew yeah, it was a bit rough we had nothing to throw it in." " a bit sinewy" "It gave us our own peace of mind that we could settle down and now have a family, that we had done something, we hadn't just been nobodys and lived in suburbia all our lives we'd done something that we were proud of that.." "you know, we'd accomplished on our own" "Do you want this for the children?" "I'd love it for the children" "I was once taught when I was at school that travel could be the best education and living in conditions where you have to fend for yourself and you have to use your own initiative is very good and" "I would like it" "I was gonna be a policeman but I thought how hard it would be to join in" "I just haven't made up my mind yet, I was gonna be a phys-ed teacher but one of the teachers told me that you had to get up into university" "At 21, Paul was working as a junior partner 21 for a firm of bricklayers in Melbourne" "I'm not great at bricklaying, right but if I wasn't good enough and my boss didn't think I was good enough he would have never made me a junior partner" "I went out on my own as a subcontracter not long after the last show then I started with a partner, I organized everything" "I bought all the equipment because I didn't want to be dependent on someone else things didn't work out between the two of us, he was a bit lazy" "Do you have the right temperament, do you think?" "To run your own business?" "if you're talking about employing other people, I'm not hard enough" "I'm a little bit slow with working out things on the job not in particular the laying of the bricks but but I am a fairly slow thinker when you've got to work something out" "I think it'll end up being my job for life, probably not that I want it that way cause it gets harder as you get older, I think" "I've got twenty three.. pieces.." "23 and I don't know how many.." "how many.. pieces I've got now 26 past 10 with Doug... 15 degrees in Melbourne... at the moment..." "They live in a working class suburb of Melbourne." "Paul earns 12 thousand pounds a year 12 1 = 9.9872 owns two cars and bought his house for 35 thousand pounds 18 months ago 1835" "we're Mr. and Mrs. average, that's just true we probably earn an average income just an average family a good fist away by Russo up towards center wing..." "Robertson this time..." "Susan works part time as a hair dresser and they have two children," "Katie and Robert." "Are you ambitious for your children Paul?" "I said something one morning, that one day Robert would be a brain surgeon that was a joke, I mean like if he was a brain surgeon, all good and well but but it would be nice to let them go one step up from us, I think" "put it this way, I hope he is better at school work than I was so, that he's got a choice you know, because really.." "the education standard that I got, I didn't have a choice what does university mean?" "Paul started his school life at a children's home near London." "When he was eight he emigrated to Australia with his father." "Were you happy at the children's home in England?" "we didn't mind it really because we didn't know what was going on cause we were a bit young then" "What regrets do you have about your education then?" "I didn't work hard enough" "I was just very lazy at school you know, if you're lazy and you don't work at school, you suffer for it there needs to be a little more discipline if private schools are better.." "you'd be far better off spending your money sending your kids there then getting a video, a new television.." "or something like that, I think" "What else do you want for your kids, that you didn't have?" "a happier family life, I think don't take me wrong, it wasn't miserable" "I think it could have been better" "I think that'd be one of the most important things well my mother and father got, well they separated originally, I think and.." "eventually got divorced" "I went to the boarding school for one year and then we emigrated to Australia my father got remarried" "And how do you get on with your stepmother?" "pretty well, but like I said before" "I'm not.. just not close.." "I'm not really close to my father either" "Do you have any regrets about about the fact that that you weren't closer to him when you were younger?" "yeah, I suppose... in a way I suppose he was always there, you know, I could always talk to him but it was different we were sort of.." "we were, sort of, distant friends I mean, we always got on fairly well we didn't see much of each other" " here's grandad.. here's grandad.." " hey!" "he said actually, to his wife Barbara that.." "that he missed out on his own children and that he's not going to miss out on these divorce was something new to me until I grew up and was knew what the meaning of it all really was there were no divorces in my family" "I think of what Paul has been through, I mean" "Paul doesn't say that it was very bad but I wouldn't want that for my children it does worry me you know, because it happens so much these days only time will tell what happens divorcing your wife, what does it get you?" "it messes up your own life it messes up the kids life, wife's life" "I don't think half the people who get divorced even think about it properly" "What mark has it left on you, the fact that you were brought up within a bad marriage?" "the only thing I can say, that I think might have come from that is just my lack of confidence and being able to show my feelings, really, I suppose he is down on him self, he has this excuse where he says," ""I'm only a bricklayer, I don't.." "it's got nothing to do with me"" "I don't know why it is, I get really frustrated with him" "I want to ring his neck sometimes when he does it but, he's getting better" "So, do you feel there's any conflict ahead?" "If Sue wants a job and a career?" "what's come up so far, since we've been married, we've handled that really, I think, Susan would probably be the be the best one to start a.." "be a businesswoman and I'll stay at home you know.." "I have to push him out of the house sometimes,I think needs a bit of extra male companionship because he.." "being a bricklayer, he only works with one fellow he doesen't, we don't have a social life with work type of thing well he doesn't because it's only just one person as well as himself" "and his basketball, I think he really enjoys it but he doesn't really let on how much he enjoys it" "I suppose you could see me now, when I was seven, in a way like I think it was pretty obvious that I wasn't going to be a doctor" "You seemed like such a sad little boy." "but that's me though, ha ha" "I know I was pretty.." "you know.." "long faced sortta thing.." "I was like that sometimes out here too, I was always getting knocked about" "I don't like greens, well I don't.." "the first show I saw, was at 21 21 when I saw him at seven, I just wanted to cry, he seemed so pathetic 7 he.." "I suppose, I don't know it's hard to say, it really made me go to jelly inside, you know?" "to see him like that" "And do you think it's true that we can see the man in the seven year old boy?" "yes, yes it is because in that he was a very gentle and.." "and um.. not gentle.." "caring person, yeah he's always.." "cared about other people and always been able to work his way talk his.." "try to give an explanation for saying something he really doesn't want to do you know like, "what if I"" ""didn't like to eat my greens" and all that sort of thing, I mean he always still does that, the "what if", you know "what if"" "and you know he doesn't really want to do that so he's trying to talk himself out of it yeah.. yeah.." "Does he eat greens now?" " he loves them he loves them, he loves them" "What do you remember of England?" "well it seemed to be raining all of the time, I wouldn't stake my life on it but.." "we've got a lot more than we would have in England from what other people tell us but there again.." "when it comes to work I don't sit down on my backside, I'll go and chase it so it's hard to say but I'd say, like in general, that.. but I've probably.." "I've probably done better here than I would have there" "the family is going to come first, but I'm still" "I'm still going to be working and we'll progress.." "you know.." " I'd love for Paul to build me a house and I know he'd be happy once he'd done it but he's got his children and then to build his own home... it really would be the icing on the cake for both of us" "I read The Financial Times" "I read The Observer and The Times what do you like about it?" "well, I like.." "I usually look at the headlines and then read about them.." "about it" "I like my newspaper because I've got shares in it.." "and I know everyday what the shares are" " The stuff that misers like you like!" "but on Monday's they don't move up so I don't look at it what's the point of the program?" "the point of the program is to reach a comparison" "I don't think it is.." "because we're not necessarily typical examples" "I think that's what people who've seen the program might think - yes, falsely" " I mean.." " they tend to typecast us so everything we say, they'll think" ""oh, that's a typical result of the public school system" - yes" "Well, do you think there is any truth behind the ideas behind the program?" "That certain people have more options than others?" "it's certainly true that more people.." "more people know they have more options or imagine they have" "I think in practical terms.." "the difference in the numerical number of options isn't that great but the mere knowledge creates an option in itself - exactly, yes so I think we do have more options and it is undesirable but it's very difficult to correct" "I don't think it is undesirable!" "at all!" "I think what is undesirable is people who have had options don't make advantage of them.." "take best advantage of them when I leave this school I'm going to College Court College Court then I would be going to Westminster Boarding School if I pass the exam" "and then we think I'm going to" "Cambridge and Trinity Hall" "John went to Westminster school and at twenty-one was in his final year reading law at Christ Church Oxford 21" "I do believe that parents have a right to educate children as they think fit and I think someone who works on an assembly line in some of these car factories and earning a huge wage could well afford to send their children to" "a private school just because.." "just because some sorts of people don't put that as high on their priorities as you know, have a smart car or something" "I'm going to Charter House Charter House and after that Trinity Hall, Cambridge" "Andrew went to Charter House and read law at Trinity Hall, Cambridge Charter House and you can never be sure of leaving your children any worldly goods but at least you can be sure once you've given them a good education" "that's something that no one can take away when I leave school, I'm going to the Dragon School Dragon School" "I might.. and mummy is.." "and I might go to.." "after, I might go to Charter House, Marlborough Charter House, Marlborough and.." "I can't.." "I can't remember all the other places because mummy has got so many places... but these're some of them" "What about university Charles?" "I might go to Oxford" "Charles went to Marlborough but didn't make it to Oxford." "Marlborough" "Instead, he went to Durham University." "I'd say, I'm pleased I didn't because it's very much a sort of.." "sort of Marlborough.." "Marlborough prep school.." "Marlborough-Oxbridge conveyor belt and you get shoved out at the end.." "and you.." "when you go to Oxbridge and obviously it's not true in all cases but" "I think for the majority they mix with the same as they were with a school" "When they were 21, we asked them what they thought they would be doing at 28." "21 28" "John" "I might be at the bar" "Doing what?" "perhaps chancellory practice" "How do you see your life at 28?" "28" "What do you want for your self then?" "I'd quite like to be married by then" "John has just announced his engagement." "He is a successful barrister in the chancellory division of the high court." "At 21 these were his thoughts about his career." "21 law sort of interests me" "I think it's sort of.." "a good life it's.." "it's hard work but you sort of when you get to a certain.." "eminence, you know you take the work you want and you take the holidays you want you don't really dance to anyone's tune" "all of which quite suits me" "And what about Charles?" "hard to say.." "probably scribbling away in some basement for a some London newspaper or something" "Charles did scribble away for an East London newspaper." "He moved on after a year and joined the BBC where he now works as and assistant producer." "BBC" "And Andrew, what did he want?" "I'd like to be a solicitor and also fairly successful" "Andrew is a solicitor working for a large firm in the city." "What qualities do you think it needs to be successful?" "well you have to have a legal ability in my business, obviously and you have to have a 'bedside manner' as far as clients are concerned cause it's no good being brilliant if you can't communicate with your clients" "What do you think about girlfriends at your age?" "I've got one but I don't think much of her" "The girls never.. never never do what the boys want them to they always start playing with dolls when the boys want to play rough and tumble it's quite true" "I don't think I financially come from the same background" "Andrew didn't for a 'Haughty Deb' he went for a good 'Yorkshire Lass which I mean, obviously he knew what he wanted" "Andrew and Jane were married 18 months ago." "18" "I think I'm pretty down to Earth and I tend to be less extravagant then maybe some women are" "when I go out, I don't buy lots of expensive dresses, I just buy one or two and I even let her pay for them" "They spend their weekends in the Sussex countryside where they are converting an old barn which they bought with financial help from their parents." "They plan to live in it permanently when they start a family" "During a week they have a flat in London and Jane has a full-time job as a secretary." "I think it's not a bad idea to pay for schools because if we didn't schools would be so nasty and crowded" " yes - so do I think so" " yes - and the people in the school's wouldn't" " the poor people would come rushing in" " the man in charge of the school would get very angry because he wouldn't be able to pay all of the masters if he didn't get any money" "well, I never really experienced the state system but I think you get a better level of education if you can go to a private school" "Do you think it's bad that people like you, opt out of the school system?" "well, there are really two counter arguments first of all, there's the argument that people should have a choice if they've earned the money to spend it and there's the other argument that if we all went to the same sort of schools" "those school would probably be better because those people who had influence would do their upmost to make sure they were better if they had to send their children there whereas they just look back and don't particularly care what happens in the state system" "And what do you feel about that?" "well.." "well, I think probably the latter choice is fairly impractical so, I suppose that one has to continue with the idea of everyone having a choice once I had a talk to Grevil, he was in my house Grevil" "and" "I asked Sir if he could put him out of my house because he was always getting minuses looking back at our film and us at seven certainly I was a fairly precocious little brat and I hope I am no longer" "Do you still read The Financial Times?" " no" "you mustn't!" "no feeding it says!" "stop it at once!" " I don't think much of the accents - neither do I" " neither do I - but it doesn't prevent me liking them" "that mustn't be late there, quite quietly... well yes I do feel I've had the best of everything as far as education is concerned but, you know, to get here I had to work very hard" "But you don't deny you've had a 'silver spoon'?" "I think anyone who goes to really good school has had a leg-up but I mean, I wouldn't say I'd had been" "unduly privileged if I'd missed exams at my school and had to go to a sort of grotty.." "grotty public school I wouldn't have thought I'd have had any advantage at all yes I much say, all this talk about opportunities it's something I did did slightly object to in the program we were shown at the age of seven outlining sort of, the academics" "of a career that most of us.." "did in fact pursue, you know you know, each sentence ended up" ""John is at Westminster" "Andrew is at Charter House" and everything Charter House it implied that we merely sailed through merely manifesting an intention that we had at the age of seven 7 it didn't show the sleepless nights, the sort of pouring over our books" "you know, all of the sweat and toil that got us to universities it was presented as if it was just part of some indestructible birth rite and I thought that it was unfair that it didn't show having to do beastly jobs on the holidays, you know" "to make ends meet and things it didn't give a very real.." "impression" "Do you want to be rich?" "yes, because I don't want to be tied down to the dourness of an everyday job" "I want to have enough money so that I can indulge in the things that might interest me like collecting paintings" "I do believe in an ordered and structured society you know we are not exactly alive for very long and we've each got our our own job to do and our own little position to be in" "some people have.. a better time than others, but it.. you know.." "but it doesn't matter that if you sweep the streets you're any less valuable than than someone who i running a huge corporation" "well not everyone can be at the top as long as people are happy with what they are doing that's, I think, the greatest good that can be and this is what worries about these new sort of invidious class attitudes" "the certain sort of subversive elements are introducing that are based on envy and things" "John declined to be interviewed at 28." "28" "He felt satisfied with what was said in the previous films and had nothing more to add." "the rich children always make fun of poor children yes - yes, they say, "look at that lovely little sissy over there"" "and they throw things at them" "I don't particularly want to be rich but I'd like to have enough money" "Well, what do you mean by enough?" "or, enough to have a nice house and.." "and be able to send the children to private school if you want to" "I really don't see how someone's life can be a failure if I became a journalist and got sacked at 30 30 it's probably because I'd grown out of it or I'd changed so I was no longer suitable, I'd find something else which was" "I'd find that I enjoyed and that my talents were suited to" "Charles has found a career suited to his talents" "At the BBC he makes documentary films, BBC he decided not to take part in this film." "I'm quite happy living in the society that I am living in it's a shame that more people can't get the opportunities that I've had" "I'm not sure how one deals with that" "But you've been lucky haven't you?" "What about those that haven't been so lucky?" "I have been very lucky we pretend we've got swords and we makes the noises of swords fighting and when someone stabs us we go ahhhhh!" "I think if you're healthy and have good friends you can get on perfectly well but everybody would like to be rich" "Neil was brought up in a Liverpool suburb, went to comprehensive school and dropped out of Aberdeen University after one term at 21 he was working as a casual labourer at a building site in London 21" "I came to London and I contacted an agency for squatters and they were able to give me the address of somebody who was able to help people who were looking for accommodation in the London area and by the process of chasing people around I eventually managed to" "to find this place" "I think in questions of squatting a bit of humanity is more important than vague rules about who can live where" "But you've kicked against the stability that's.." "I don't think I ever had any stability to be quite honest" "I can't think of any time in my life when I ever did" "I don't think I've been kicking against anything, I think I've been kicking in midair the whole of my life" "last three years I've been unemployed but traveling quite a bit, mostly in Britain and abroad once or twice but.." "but not as extensively as I used to do thanks, shall I put the luggage in here?" "or, do you want it in the back?" "I live off money from social security which does me for my rent and my food" "I've been moving about a bit between differnent places, really" "I'm a bit unsettled but I'm very shortly moving to live in digs" "For the last seven years Neil has been moving around Britain." "He spent the summer on a farm in North Wales and when we found him he had just arrived in the Western Highlands of Scotland." "Do you think people like who live off the state are scrounging?" "no if the state didn't give us any money, it would probably just mean crime and I'm glad I don't have to steal to keep myself alive" "I do it simply because I don't want to be without any money if the money runs out, well then for a few days, there is nowhere to go to that's all you can do" "I simply have to find the warmest shed I can find" "Neil rents whatever kind of home he can find." "the last job I had was cooking in a youth hostel, some cleaning work as well" "I was the only person in the hostel who could speak French so I did a bit of that" "Do you eat everyday?" "yes" "I'm eating better now then I was at times when I was in Aberdeen those days, sometimes I really was short of food well I'm going to take people to the country and sometimes take them to the seaside" "and have a big loud speaker in the motor coach and tell them where abouts we are and what we're going to do" "and where the road is and all about that there's a lot more to do in the mountains than there would be in a suburb or a city centre what I found here, in fact, is you don't talk about the weather" "because the weather is all around, everyone know it's been raining so you don't talk about the weather that makes good sense to me!" "I'm not the sort of person who can go into a pub sit down with a drink and listen to the jukebox and talk a lot of rubbish a lot of people find that very relaxing but, if I'm going to talk to somebody" "a, I have to be able to hear myself speaking and b, I have to talk about something that actually has a meaning" "I'm not trying to denigrate the way most people relax but I can't do that, so I'm lost in a noisy pub" "I'll sit in a quite corner of a quite pub and then I'll want to talk about literature or something like that which not everybody.. will want to.." "How do people regard you here?" "well, I'm still known as an eccentric as I have been since.." "16 about the age of sixteen or so" "Do days seem long for you?" "they can do" "Do you have any friends anywhere?" "I have some good friends still in England" "I don't think I need to go to university because I'm not going to be a teacher" "I went to a comprehensive school" "I found a much bigger course and I found it hard to settle into at first" "I did make an application to Oxford but I didn't get in well I think that's in the past now and that's.." "I don't whether I would have been any happier at Oxford it always had been a dream to get into Oxford" "I think because people had encouraged me and because I knew famous people having been to Oxford" "it is still something occasionally I" "I think about and think yes" "I know I could have done well" "I've been playing since I started at the comprehensive school since the first year" "I don't think I was half as clever as I was told I was, I think unfortunately, I grew up against a background of fairly.." "of people of pretty average intellagence" "I don't think I went to a school of bright people if this was the case, I don't think I would have been so big headed" "I know I went to university expecting to be something of a genius and found that wasn't the case at all" "which is a good thing for me, it's very good that I didn't count that opinion, I don't think I was so much clever, I just think I was quite enthusiastic particularly when it came to O levels" "so I was enthusiastic about the subjects I was studying and therefore with the help of good teaching I was able to get good results" "What were your results?" "well, I did well enough, I'm not going to boast" "No, tell me. tell me the fact." "How many O levels and A levels did you get?" "I got ten O levels and then" "I got four A levels 4" "Did you get good grades within them?" "yes, the grades were quite satisfactory well I was only taking university seriously for a matter of couple of months two or three months" "maybe I went to the wrong university or maybe university life didn't suit me either way" "I felt a very great need to get out of the system." "no formal education can prepare anybody for life only life can prepare you for what comes and sooner or later you are going to have to cross certain barriers" "I don't think you ever cross those uh.." "at school or at university you come across the problem of mixing with other people but the real problem.." "I mean.." "the real problem of becoming a success in the world is when you have to tackle yourself on the grass.. we play international wrestling yeah, that's only in summertime though yes, only when we can to go on the grass" "being in set one, it's very very hard to keep up with the leaders" "I never have time to relax at all" "I don't know what sort of stumbling blocks should be put in a child's way to get him used to living in the outside world" "because I think maybe this is something that was wrong in my upbringing" "I didn't have enough obstacles to get over" "I still.." "I still.. set myself high standards if I'm doing something that I want to do but that's that's important that's not too bad a thing" "But you talked also about not having enough obstacles in your life." "How do you feel about that now?" "funny that isn't it?" "I can't remember saying that but now I do remember and it seems the whole situation is reversed" "In what way?" "well now I'm a free.." "I've got a free hand but I've got nothing to do with myself so.." "In the winter if you lived in the country it would just be all wet and there wouldn't be anything for miles around and you'd get soaked if you'd try to go out and there's no shelter anywhere except in your own house" "but in winter you can go out on wet wintery days because you can always find somewhere to shelter because there's lots of places" "I don't thin I've been typical of the environment in which I lived" "I might still have been unemployed but what my background has given me is umm a sense.." "of just being part of.." "a very impersonal society the suburbs.." "the suburbs.." "force this kind of feeling upon somebody the most you can hope to achieve is" "is the right to climb into a suburban train five or ten times a week and just stagger back for the weekend, the least is just unemployment" "great, thanks" "I just needed a nice woolly pair" "What other things about modern society turn you off?" "the cheap satisfaction in so many things the aimlessness but I think the total lack of thought is at the bottom of it nobody seems to know where they or anybody else is going and nobody seems to worry you know, you finish the week" "you come home, you plug into the TV set for the weekend and then you.." "manage to get back to work on Monday and it seems to me that this is just a slow path to.." "to.. to total brainwashing and if you have a brainwashed society then you're heading towards doom there's no question about that" "I mean, it'll be pretty tough to convince most people that what you have here, the way you live. the way you look is better than a suburban life well, I don't want to convince anybody, I know it is" "see, what I look like, isn't necessarily what I feel like" "I not claiming that I feel as though I'm in some sort of.." "Nirvana but but I'm claiming that if I lived in a bedset in suburbia, I'd be so miserable" "I'd feel like cutting my throat and so, there is a slight difference when I go home" "I come.." "I come in and mummy gives me a cup of tea and then I go out and play and when it starts to get dark I come in again and put on TV" "I don't think I was really taught any sort of policy of living at all by my parents this is probably the biggest mistake that I was just left to fend for myself in a world which they seem completely oblivious of" "and I found even when I tried to discuss problems which were facing me in school my parents didn't seem to be aware of the nature of the problem" "we.. we made up quite.. quite well after.." "the bad times we went through when I was in my early twenties there's still.. there are still awkward patches but" "I think suddenly perhaps almost mutually, it dawned upon us that" "we were all making mistakes and and also that some of the things we did couldn't be helped and i think now perhaps the greatest thing we achieved is we know when to say nothing and we know when to do nothing and we know when to be tolerant of each other" "and that's a great thing that's really tremendous what I'd like most of all would be" "would be to be able to to do something for my parents when they are older, to be there when.." "when the time.." "if necessary" "Were they upset with what you said about them in the last program?" "I'm sure they were but I.." "I don't wish I hadn't said it because I said exactly what was going through my mind" "I think I was very venomous and I think I had I been in an easier situation myself had I had less worries, myself at the time" "I would have been perhaps a little kinder" "I had to take out my anger on somebody and I think it came out on my parents but perhaps unconsciously a lot of what I said was what I did feel underneath" "but but I don't want the scar to remain when I get married, I don't want to have any children because because they are always doing naughty things and making the whole house untidy" "I always told myself that umm.." "I would never have children" "Why?" "because.." "because.." "well, because.." "children inherit something from their parents and even if my wife were the most high spirited and ordinary and normal of people the child would still stand a fairly good chance of being not totally" "full of happiness because of what he or she will have inherited from me poor people, I don't like them very much no, it's the ghostly colored people if you think of a purple person with red eyes and yellow feet" "I can't really think of what they really look like" "What goes through your mind when you look at those two films?" "When you are seven, bright and perky?" "I find it hard to believe that I was ever like that but there's the evidence" "I wonder why I was like that I wonder what it was inside me that made me like that" "and I can even see at fourteen that I was beginning to get more subdued 14 and I was putting a lot more thought into what I was saying to a ridiculous degree" "and probably when I was seven.." "I lived in a wonderful world where everything was sensation and I could be happy obviously but be miserable the next minute" "I know at seven years old I was fascinated by everything around me the colors of things and things that were funny sounds that things made" "I had, if you like, idiosyncratic views about things that other people hadn't even thought about" "I remember I thought colored people had purple noses and green legs or something like that" "perhaps I'm still looking for.." "it's difficult to explain, perhaps I'm still looking for.." "the green nose and this sort of thing and I know that.." "that they are still there that when you look at a human being there's more.. there's more to that person then.." "just a.. just a robot when I grow up I want to be an astronaut but if I can't be an astronaut I think I'll be a coach driver this probably linked up now with the fact that I want to travel" "my thoughts haven't really changed" "I definitely would like to be a coach driver now" "I suppose I.." "yes, well.." "I would like to be somebody in a position of importance and I've always thought this.." "but I don't think I'm the right sort of person to carry the responsibility for whatever it is I always thought, well, I'd love to be in" "possibly even love to be in politics something like this but" "I suppose I'd find it just as tedious as all of the other jobs I've done so.." "there were things I always thought I could do" "I could give lectures on.." "erudite subjects I'd read all about" "I could work in the theatre perhaps lighting or" "directing a show" "And is all of that lost to you?" "does seem to be, yes" "I don't see anyway out, I've thought of everything I possibly could it seemed to me for a long time that getting a reliable job and a nice place to live would be the solution well, I haven't succeeded" "I can't see any immediate future at all but here I am, I'm still" "I've still got clothes on my back not particularly nice clothes but I've still got them" "I have a place to go to" "I have some prospects of work, I'm still applying for jobs, I haven't given up" "I think, I think I'm lucky because I have met so many people" "I've worked with people who have no future whatsoever for whom life is finished completely at fifty 50 and yet somehow they have to keep going and" "I don't want it to seem that I'm complaining too much" "I feel, especially sometimes when I'm on my own that I'm loosing touch with where people live" "Do you worry about your sanity?" "other people sometimes worry about it" "Like who?" "as I've said, I sometimes can be found behaving in an erratic fashion" "sometimes I can get very frustrated, very angry for no apparent reason, for a reason which won't be apparent to other people around me" "it's happened from time to time" "Have you had treatment?" "I've occasionally had to see doctors, yes" "I haven't had any treatment" "And what have they said to you?" "I've had a lot of advice but you know the best medicine is.." "kind words and it usually comes from somebody who has nothing to do with the medical profession which isn't to say that doctor's can't be very helpful" "but really, the thing a sick person wants is to be away from doctors as soon as possible" "What did they say was wrong with you?" "well, I have always had a nervous complain" "I've had it since I was sixteen it was responsible for my leaving university and some of my difficulties with work but as you know, you can't avoid to go around looking depressed that in itself is bad enough" "So can you lick it?" "it remains to be seen yes, I'd say I believed in god" "Are you religious?" "well, I go to church with my parents on Sundays" "I don't know now whether I believe in god or not" "I thought an awful lot about it actually and I still don't know but still I'm certain, if one were to survive in this world they'd have to believe in god" "I don't think of god as a creature but I think of.." "something.." "time.. destiny.." "which is regulating everybody's affairs and witch you cannot you cannot fight against and you cannot.." "order about" "And how has he been treating you?" "well I said to somebody last week that I preferred The Old Testament to The New Testament because in The Old Testament god is very unpredictable" "and that's, I think, how I see him in my life sometimes very benevolent sometimes, seemingly, needlessly unkind" "If we come back in seven years, how would you like us to find you?" "7" "In a job, for which I was getting satisfaction married" "probably with children with a good salary" "enough to, as I said before, live fairly comfortably and with fiends whom I could contact if I wanted to" "I'm a lot happier now, than I was seven years ago" "I'm more content, I don't have such dreadful yearnings" "I don't feel so hopelessly as if everything is against me" "Do you think, what a waste?" "yeah, perhaps" "Why should you accept this?" "You're better than all of this aren't you?" "I'm not better than anything or anybody" "I'm just somebody with my own particular difficulties and my own particular obstacles to select and everybody else is doing exactly the same thing" "if we did all love Jeffery and all wanted to marry him" "yes!" "I think I'd know the one he'd like" "Jackie, Lynn, Susan" "After primary school they separated and at fourteen Lynn was at grammar school 14 and Jackie and Susan were at comprehensive." "we had a teacher at school his favorite ploy was all you girls want to do is walk out, get married, have babies and push a pram down the street with a fag hanging outside your mouth women are expanding into so many different areas now that" "it must be getting easier" "Susan has been married four years and has a son of two." "Her husband Billy is a gas fitter and they live in a council house in the east end of London." "75!" "I'm lucky I expect because I still manage to.." "to do my own thing, I've got a husband who lets me do what I want and a mum who helps me out you know, and I do a little part time job which is enough for me because I don't think I could cope with a full time job" "and I wouldn't want to personally 60!" "Jackie was married at 19 and her husband is a decorator 19" "She works for an insurance company in the city" "I certainly don't want to stay in the position I am at the moment forever and ever but how ambitious, I'm not really sure tends to.." "change as you get older so.." "just got to wait and see really" "Lynn also married at 19, 19 her husband works at the post office and they have two daughters." "They moved out of the Eastend to Kent 18 months ago." "18" "I'm going to work in Woolworth's" "At 21 Lynn was working in a mobile library in Tower Hamlets 21 she's still there." " have I stamped yours?" " yes" "I've not stamped yours" "Sleeping Beauty teaching children the beauty of books and watching their faces as books unfold to them is just fantastic to work with children of that age you've got to love them and I love children but I know he loves her and he loves her" " I don't, I love him!" "I don't think I'd.." "get married too early" "I'd like to have a full life first and" " you'd like to enjoy yourself before?" " meet people.. yeah before you commit yourself to a family if you think that getting married, as far as we are concerned is a case of going to work come home cook tea for hubby go to bed getting up going to work" "you're totally mistaken" "Did you meet enough men before you decided who you wanted to marry?" "I've been married a year and.." "a couple of months you do think, christ, what have I done?" " see I've still got my..." " and I'm being honest about it!" "I think it's the same... you think, christ, what have I done?" "it is a partnership marriage, yes we were married, i'd say obviously, young" "but because we wanted to go out and have fun together and grow together" "I'm not sure I would recommend it" "I think if... but again you are generalizing, I mean if.." "I would say on average 19 is probably too young 19" "I've had a good time up till I was 24 24 and and I think that to get married young there must be things that you miss, you must miss that crucial stage of being yourself because the minute you get married, you're no longer" "a single being you're a partnership and that should be the idea behind it if I could, I would have two girls and two boys - yeah, so would I" "And what about you Jackie?" "my mum... because she's got five girls, she's got seven years bad luck that's why she's got five girls" "I'd like to be able.." "to have a happy family" "I mean I know that it's not possible to happy all of the time but as much of the time as was possible go through there, that's the nursery" "got any plans -oh, do me a favor at 21 Jackie had moved into a new house 21 she has decided not to have any children basically, I would say because I am far too selfish" "I enjoy doing what I want, when I want and how I want and.." "certainly at the moment I.." "can't see any way around that that's not to say that's a forever decision some people can make it work, I just don't think I could" "You don't think you're missing out on what they have?" "Their stake in the future?" "no.." "that's a very... that's a terrible way to put it, you know" "I mean, that makes you sound like you're saying" ""right, great, we're going to have a child"" "and that.. that's us" "I do feel to a degree that yes I am missing out but I think I also get far more" "pleasure out of" "I'm gaining far more experience by not having that tie when I got married the primary reason was because I wanted to have a child the two, to me, went together" "I can understand Jackie's decision because" "I think there is sill a lot of pressure put on young married couples to have children as though it was expected of them and I think it's all wrong, it's just a personal decision that everyone is entitled to make" "and knowing what it does to your life I can fully understand someone who decides not to what would you do if you had lots of money about.." "like 2 pounds 20" "I would by me self a new house, you know one that's all nice and comfy" "Do you get depressed by money problems?" "no, why?" "why should you?" "if can manage with what you got?" "it's easy to get depressed over money" "it's so easy to but why should you?" " why bother about it - when I reach the 18th day of the month when my mortgage is due on the 20th 20 and there's nowhere near enough money in there" "I get depressed about it obviously what money?" "it was hard, first of all, when I gave up work from having a fairly high salary to nothing was hard but you get used to it whatever your circumstances are" "you live in them, you get used to it, you cope, everybody does" "I think before going to a grammar school, I just you know, comprehensive school it just seem more friendly, you know, and at the time it was but now now they are really different" "grammar schools are fantastic -if you say so we've heard that it doesn't scratch the bottom, why am I using  wooden spoon please?" "to stir this saucepan.." "I don't think anybody influenced me, it was a conscious decision obviously, the decision was discussed at home but" "it was always in me to go there may come a time, perhaps later on when I regret not having.." "we are talking about examination results really, that's what it boils down to and.." "I got.." "and I got some examination results and O levels and GCSEs or whatever" "I didn't need them for the jobs I decided to do, so with this school, we do metal work and woodwork and the boys do cookery and we get a share of everything.. sort of thing most parents would want" "every advantage they can get for their child, now whether you class going to grammar school as an advantage is dependent on you entire outlook if you don't class it as an advantage then you are not going to push that" "my mum left me, she knew I could go to grammar and and I decided that I didn't want to she encouraged me in the choice that I made and right or wrong that was my choice as much as I was capable of making a decision" "and" "I enjoyed myself my father recently go education, he never went to the local comprehensive but at the same time" "I don't think he was too worried which way I was decided to go" "I think he probably knew me better than I did which was basically, I was a very lazy person academically and I think I would have found grammar school bullshit" "Do you have any regrets about it?" "umm.. no, no you can only have regrets about things if you're not happy with the way you are" "You look at the old film and you see yourselves as seven, do you think you've changed?" "no, I don't think I have really we're the same people as we were then" "I was always chatty, Jackie was always chatty and Lynn was always the quieter one" "But is that depressing or frightening to think 7 we're all set by the time we're seven and that's it?" "I don't think one's set by that age, you progress but the overall character is there to come up" "I think the basics are there yeah, the basics are there" "But why is it that you three haven't changed so much do you think?" " we'll probably never know that" " I think we've all had we've all had a stable background with stable relationships all the way through the same people are there now that were there then the poor, if you don't help then soon they'll sort of" "die soon, wouldn't they?" "well, some people are just born into rich families and they're lucky" "I don't see why they should have to luck when people have worked all their lives and haven't got half as much as what they have it just doesn't seem fair" "I've had the opportunities in life that I've wanted" " I'll say I've had more!" " yeah, you may" "So you three working class girls don't feel bitter about a society that maybe gives one strata of it more opportunities than another?" "no not bitter not at all" "I don't event think, to be honest, we consciously think about it until this program comes up once every seven years" "I really don't think we even think about it" "I don't not sit there thinking" ""he actually was born into money!"" ""he's had more opportun.."" "I mean it just doesn't even cross my mind" "I think we all could have gone in whatever way we wanted to at the time within our capabilities, I mean we chose our own jobs" "we were able to chose our own jobs quite freely if you've got a comfortable background then perhaps it can make life easy but I think you've also seen within this program that it doesn't always work that way" "In some respects" "I think that.." "the boys and Suzi didn't have didn't have such an open choice as we had it was mapped out for such an early age as to where they were going and and they had to live up it's a hard thing living up to parental.." " expectations - expectations" "before I'm old and that, enough to get a job" "I'll just walk around and see what I can find" "I was going to be a film star but.." "now I'm going to be an electrical engineer which is more to reality, really" "I often say I'm saving to settle down with Yvonne and then I think to myself "nah I might buy a car instead"" "since 21 21" "I've got married had a couple of kids and um.." "well, I don't think there's anybody else I could have ever married except Yvonne it gives me my life really because we're together, we have the children and everything" "And what is it with Yvonne that you fell in love with?" "her nature, really it's always quite thoughtful except when she's laughing" "Tell me, do you have any girlfriends?" "well, not many" "What do you think about girls?" "oh, not much" "When you decided to have the five, did you want to have them close together?" "yeah because if you separated your kids and say one is fifteen and one is six 15 6 such an age gap that they could never get on they'd never grow up together, they won't know each other" "Why did you want to have a large family?" "well I wouldn't really call it a large family" "Well, I think it is large by average standards." "yeah?" "we just wanted five kids you know, we got exactly what we want, three boys and two girls" "no, no... that's exactly..." "it's a handful, you know" "Do you push your kids at school?" "Those that go to school already?" "no, I don't push them, I encourage them in what.." "when they come home and I come home in the evening they tell me what they've done and if they've done anything bad I tell them where they've gone wrong and if they.." "want um.." "what's the word?" "not encouragement.. praise for what they've done then I'll give it to them if they've done well, yeah" "Do you see maybe your kids are going to be smarter than you are?" "well, yeah there's a couple of them already that are gonna be smarter" "How are you going to handle that?" "um..." "I'll keep them on my side they say, "where's your father, then?"" "you know, when your mum's out at work instead of your father" "I just tell'em I ain't got one" "What effect has that had on you?" "well, I don't think it's had any effect on me because what you don't have you don't miss twenty years ago 20" "when I was born, you know, an illegitimate child that's.." "something that is only whispered about people you know, feel feel strongly about it in those days but nowadays.." "it's.." "it's not a serious matter the serious point is whether you stay with somebody or you leave them" "What would you like to give your children that you never had?" "they've got everything they've even got what I never had so.." " Which is what?" " a father, isn't it?" "so, I mean, they've had everything" "I feel like bundling when there's already a.. when there's already a fight" "Simon was brought up in a children's home." "He went back to live with his mother when he was thirteen." "13" "I was at a boarding school and I liked the discipline it gave me a kind of freedom" "Do you encourage that with your children?" "yeah, I like to encourage that, they go to bed the same time every night and they get up round about the same time every morning and they go to school the same time everyday you know, it's good to have discipline and routine" "But what about in your life?" "Do you think there has been too routine?" "no, not really" "I mean, somebody else might think so yeah but I enjoy having a routine and I enjoyed knowing where I was going to be next and what I had to do next because that sort of relieved me from responsibilities" "At 21 he was working in the freezer room of Wall's Sausages in London." "21" "How do you see the future?" "As far as work goes." "well, I know I can't stay at Wall's forever, I mean, this is just not me" "I couldn't stay there for that long, my mind would go dead how long have I been there?" "about eight or nine years or something like that there's a lot of people I know there now when I first went there, I mean... it's getting to know people, now that I've been there so long, I know practically everybody who's in there" "now I don't think my mind will go dead because I have a lot to talk about everyday go to work, you know there's always somebody says something smart, you know someday.." "I'll be just like anybody else nothing too marvelous" "I feel okay just getting on with life just sort of keeping up but I know if I really wanted to I could get on it would only take a little spark in me to do it" "I'm quite happy to stay there doesn't look like it's going to close down, so, I mean better the devil you know, isn't it" "Do you ever feel you should be doing better jobs than these?" "Aren't you worth more than this?" "no, I haven't really" "I suppose I just like hard work, I don't know but um.." "it's never really sort of worried me" "I suppose it should, but it just doesn't not really interested in moving up up the scale why?" "I don't need the hassle of being a charger or the manager or whatever" "I had a dream when when all the world was on top of me and and everything was..." "and I just about got out and everything flew in the air and it all landed on my head" "see, I mean everybody's got the same start they've got that little bit of grey matter in their head and it depends how they use it and for what purpose" "yeah, if you're just going to be like me and take it easy for you life if you're going to be somebody who really wants to go far well you have to push yourself if you don't push yourself, you won't go up" "And did you want to go far?" "Push yourself?" "um... no, I want to get through life nice and easy" "Simon and his family live in a Council Flat in Southwold, London" "What do you think about rich people?" "well.." "not much" "Tell me about them." "well they think they can do everything without you doing it as well rich people, they have all different things they have everything they want whereas poor people they don't have nothing and they know they haven't got nothing" "and so they know they are missing something" "What are you missing?" "well, I'm missing a bike and a fishing rod" "Are you envious of people who have a lot of money?" "no, I may have been but" "I can't envy them now because" "I've got what I want so there's nothing that anyone can give me that's going to make me any happier" "I could save for months and then one day just go out and spend it and that's that I would feel quite happy about it" "I wouldn't worry about getting the next penny if you don't plan anything, you'll never get by anyway you could have millions and you wouldn't know what to do with it if you just keep spending it, you have to know what you are spending" "everybody's gotta get used to knowing colored people and colored people in turn have got to get used to being with white people" "because if either side doesn't work properly then no side will work properly they're just the same as me aren't they?" "I mean, do you think it's hard being a black man in English society today?" "It depends what you want, isn't it?" "if you just want to live in the society, no it's not hard if you want to fight the society, yes it would be hard" "And have you ever wanted to fight it?" "not really, no there's no need for it" "I've been to Madame Tussauds with my mum and the.." "planetarium" "Do you want to go abroad?" "um... yeah" "I'd like to go to Majorca and take a couple of weeks out there for everything" "relax myself" "I think I might like to, sort of, go out of this country probably just for a holiday first... somewhere... anywhere... and then sort of.." "think about settling down somewhere else" "I mean, I could have got a job in.." "some foreign parts working for some an auto.. packing firm but when it came down to it I didn't want to move, I didn't want to leave so, I mean" "I've probably got a very narrow view of life because I don't really like traveling" "Does that worry you that you have that narrow view?" " worry me?" "you keep asking if things worry me, no" "Does it concern you then?" "yeah, that's a different word no, not really it doesn't really concern me" "And what would you want for the future?" "watching my kids growing up and when they're grown up maybe seeing their children grow up as well" "Looking at some of the earlier films it would seem that you had a sad childhood." "You didn't have a dad and you didn't have a lot of material things." "no, I wouldn't really call that a sad life it's a different life to somebody with everything or thinks they have everything but I mean it doesn't matter if you've got everything, all of the material things in the world, I mean" "you're not going to be happy anyway because you'll still want the next thing down the road" "At the end of their very special day in London after their trip to the zoo and the party we took our children to an adventure play ground where they could do just what they liked" "Those from a children's home set about building a house." "There's Nicholas." "And Tony." "Andrew." "And Bruce." "John." "Suzie." "Jackie and her friends." "Give me a child until he is seven..." "7 and I will give you the man." "This has been a glimpse of Britain's future."