"Good evening, and welcome to The Culpeper Minute." "It's been nearly a decade since the best-selling autobiography Under the Hood revealed secrets of the original band of masked adventurers the new Minutemen." "In 1975, when The Culpeper Minute was new to the airwaves we profiled the author of Under the Hood, Hollis Mason the former adventurer known as Nite Owl." "When my original report aired in 1975, the Keene Act had not yet been passed." "Now, this controversial bill outlawed all costumed adventurers and masked heroes." "Given our current climate of unrest around the subject of masked justice we thought it would be interesting to revisit that original episode as a reminder of where the whole phenomena of costumed heroics began." "Tonight we're talking with Hollis Mason about his autobiography, Under the Hood." "Hollis Mason's memoirs revealed some of the secrets of the masked adventurers." "I met with Hollis at one of his favorite New York establishments, the Gunga Diner." "Coming to New York at 12 years old it was, uh, fantastic for me in a lot of ways." "And my dad got a job at Vernon's Auto Repair off 7th Avenue." " Now Mason's, right?" " Now Mason's." "Yeah, yeah." "Same place." "CULPEPER:" "Yet you didn't follow in your father's footsteps." "You chose another path." "MASON:" "Well, yeah, when I was 23 I joined the New York City Police Department." "And I think that that had a lot to do with my grandfather and the values that he'd instilled in me." "Because for the first 12 years of my life, I spent a lot of time with my granddad." "He was always keen to impress upon me that country folk were morally healthier than city folk, the way they lived." "Of course you were competitive in certain ways, but you were also..." "You helped each other." "And it was kind of a moral value that stuck with me." "And when I first got to the city there were things I saw that really filled me with disgust that I found a hard time shaking, and, you know, some really..." "Some of it I still can't." "What my grandfather gave me and what I was confronted with in the city..." "When the distance between those things got too great and I couldn't deal with it then I would go to my real other world, the world of pulp-fiction novels." "They described a world of absolute values where what was good and true was never in doubt." "And evil was..." "Well, it received its appropriate punishment." "Is that how you've led your life, then?" " That's what I've tried to do." "Um..." " Mm-hm." "Yeah." "Hollis Mason, idealizing young cop trying to make sense of granddad's country values and the grit of the big city he finds himself living in." "Soon enough, the police force and its brand of justice is not enough for young Mason." "Long a fan of pulp detective fiction and comic-book heroics Mason did what others only fantasize about." "He made himself a disguise and set out in the nights as a vigilante doling out justice on his own terms." "What influenced this shift in Mason's behavior?" "It's funny when you think about it." "You know, I've heard all the..." "All the jokes and all the rumors and all the innuendos." "What it really comes down to for me is that I dressed up like an owl and I fought crime because it was fun." "And because it was the right thing to do." "And because I darn well enjoyed it." "[MASON CHUCKLES]" "I suppose it really started to take shape for me in 1938." "And on my beat there were a lot of kids reading that first issue of Action Comics." "I was so drawn, I couldn't help it." "I asked one of the kids if I could borrow it and take a look at it." "And that first issue of Superman wow, knocked me out." " Mm-hm." "Okay, Superman was your biggest influence, and it was to a lot of kids." "But you took it even further." "MASON:" "Well, it all changed when I opened the newspaper one day and I saw that these characters had escaped from their four-color world and they were now in the factual black-and-white world of the headlines." "An attempted assault and robbery was thwarted by a figure who supposedly dropped into the alleyway from above with something over his face." "And he then proceeded to disarm the three attackers and beat them with such severity that all three were hospitalized." "The newspapers started calling him Hooded Justice." "And that was the first masked vigilante." "And when I heard that story I made up my mind right then I was gonna be the second." "We have to take a break for our sponsors now, but when we come back more from our 1975 story on masked adventurers." "Thank you for staying with us." "We return now to our retrospective look at Under the Hood and what these men and women mean to us today." "CULPEPER:" "Why did you come up with the owl costume?" "MASON:" "It really came together because of another cop that I was working with in my station house." "And he kept asking me to go out for a beer after work." "And I kept saying no, because, you know, I wanted to train at night and get ready for my other career." "And then he started calling me "night owl."" " You know, he was being sarcastic." " Right." "And I loved it." "I thought, "Well, that's it, Nite Owl."" " So that's where the name came from?" " That's where it came from." "So once I had the name, then I could start thinking about the costume." "Should it have a cape or no cape?" "Should you have a mask or no mask?" "Eventually, I just boiled it down to the basics." "I needed a costume where I was free to move." "I needed to protect my body." "I needed to protect my head." "And I needed to protect my identity." "So I did this with a tunic that was covered in leather and mail a kind of steel mesh." "And I had a hood with..." "It was leather and steel mesh again." "And then briefs." "They were covered in the same mail." "So I've got my hair covered and all I need is a little mask." "So I did it with this." "This is the mask." "I attached this mask with a spirit gum which is what actors use to put on mustaches and beards." "CULPEPER:" "It turned out, there were several masked adventurers at the time." "MASON:" "Yeah, about a month after I made my debut the headlines were all about a young woman called the Silhouette." "She had exposed a crooked publisher who was dealing in child pornography." "And she gave him such a brutal beating." "Him and his two cameramen, right?" "Well, that was quite a story." "From there it grew pretty quickly." "There were stories of a man dressed like a moth who could glide through the air." "And then there was a story of a man in a yellow boiler suit who was particularly brutal and vicious." "In 12 months of Hooded Justice's dramatic entrance there were at least, oh, seven other costumed vigilantes." "There was Sally Jupiter, who took the name of Silk Spectre." "There was Dollar Bill, there was Mothman there was the Silhouette, there was Comedian." "And, of course, there was me." "Little that Mason told me was not already in his book." "So I turned to some of the other figures from his world to find out more." "She used her sexuality to fight crime and her crime fighting to pursue a career on the silver screen." "Now her daughter lives on in her image and life seemingly has passed Sally Jupiter by." "We joined her at her home for the following exchange back in 1975." "CULPEPER:" "Why the name Silk Spectre?" "JUPITER:" "You know, it's funny." "Many people have hypothesized about reasons why that might have come up." "And in truth, I wanted to find something mysterious something that had a good ring to it, you know?" "And I felt that she should be somebody who could slip out of your hands." "Silk stockings, you know, were very expensive at the time." "And it just had a good ring to it, I guess, is all I can really say." "What were your motivations in becoming a masked adventurer?" "I saw Hooded Justice and I think the idea of doing something that was out of the normal..." "I never felt like I really fit in." "And I think that becoming Silk Spectre really made me feel actually more at home." "Now, Silk Spectre is presented in fairly racy imagery in posters and in comics." "How do you deal with these, what I call, visually degrading pictures?" "Oh, I never had a problem with that sort of thing." "I mean, you know, they always referred to me as a sex symbol." "And I have to say, I'd rather be a symbol of that than a symbol for other things they've got symbols of." "You know what I mean?" "Jimmy Fantucci, a famous mobster, I'm sure you've heard of him." "He actually turned himself into the cops because he couldn't shoot me." "You know, as I said, I never shied away from the way that I looked." "And, in fact, it seemed in this case, I could use it." "Masked adventurers or whatever what you wanna call them is all about commerce." "You have to remember that this country was founded on entertainment." "And when I managed Sally, the Silk Spectre we used her status as a costumed hero to make lucrative deals of every kind." "Movie deals, image licensing for pinups, comic books, everything." "It was a business strategy that corporations picked up on almost immediately." "Dollar Bill was originally a star college athlete from Kansas hired by a major department store when they realized that having their own superhero was an interesting publicity prospect." "Still, I like to think that Sally and I pioneered the concept." "When you're trying to make a mark in the world, you need help." "You need someone who can be sort of the cohesive factor in bringing the awareness to the public, and he definitely did that." "And I think, in fact, probably at the expense of many people's agendas, really." "I don't think you can make value judgments on whether or not costumed heroes are good or bad for society." "That's like asking if television is good or bad." "The answer is that it's both." "It was only really when we got together that the problems started." "The Minutemen, yeah." "What a great idea." "I wish I can take credit for it, but I can't in good conscience." "The way it happened was one day I got a letter for Sally from Captain Metropolis." "He said he wanted to get together to discuss the idea of forming a group of masked adventurers." "At first, I thought he was using the idea as a means to get her into bed." "Then I did a little research and I learned that my concerns were, yeah, unfounded if you get my meaning." "Lawrence made the Minutemen." "If it wasn't for him and his knack for publicity..." "I mean I think as someone in your profession, you could probably understand that if we did this interview and no one saw it, then, poof, it doesn't matter." "SHEXNAYDER:" "I realized that without the occasional gimmick to revitalize flagging public interest the fad of costumed heroes would eventually fade, even the ones dressed like Sally." "After some consideration I suggested they take a large ad out in the Gazette asking for more mystery men to come forward." "And that's how the Minutemen came to be." "CULPEPER:" "Now, when you first met The Comedian Nite Owl, Silhouette and the others what were your thoughts?" "Were you intimidated?" "Was there a sense of relief?" "Oh, it was an incredibly exhilarating time, I have to say." "I think we all felt like we were part of a family that we had found sort of a place where we could feel like we actually were of value." "Everyone brought something different to the Minutemen." "But somehow when we were together there was a bonding feeling that we all believed in what we were doing." "Now, the reason I say "relief" is because many of the people back in those days thought that you were all rather bizarre, abnormal individuals running around in children's costumes." "JUPITER:" "We were just people." "And everyone did have absolutely different politics." "Some of us were in it for fame." "Some for power." "Some to possibly hide from the rest of the world." "But in the end of the day, our politics really didn't get in the way too much of what we wanted to be there to do, which was good." "We did too much good in our respective communities just to be written off." "We were all attempting through our personal efforts to make our country a better and a safer place to live." "Clearly, Hollis Mason is a man who makes no apologies for the life he's lived or the decisions he's made." "But is his own personal moral code enough justification for donning a mask and dispensing vigilante justice?" "I went out and asked around to get a better sense of how you, the people, felt about masked heroes." "MAN 1:" "I don't know." "I get a lot of customers that are cops." "Guys that come by and pay for a pack of smokes from me and they tell me that these masked adventurers they're making the job more difficult." "MAN 2:" "What do I think of them?" "They've just about destroyed my business, I can tell you that." "They maim my customers." "They like to break fingers." "They think it's funny." "Yeah." "They're dangerous." "But then on the other hand, what if we hadn't had that Dr. Manhattan guy on our side, huh?" "I mean, I know it's inconceivable to us, now knowing what we know but who's to say that things wouldn't have gone the same in Vietnam without them?" "Losing that war." "That would've destroyed our country." "More on costumed adventurers and the controversy surrounding them after this word from our sponsors." "ANNOUNCER:" "Seiko announces the world's first digital quartz  liquid crystal chronograph." "It gives the time, the date  and with a push of a button, turns into a stopwatch  that records lap times and one-two finishes in tenths of seconds." "The time of day, kept in electronic memory, reappears when you push the button again." "The Seiko liquid crystal chronograph." "Only one of Seiko's superb digital quartz watches." "Welcome back, and thank you for watching." "In our current climate, the relevance of masked adventurers, the Watchmen is more in question than ever before." "We continue now with our look back at a show in which we discussed Under the Hood a memoir of original masked hero The Nite Owl, née Hollis Mason." "A book which precipitated many of the questions we have today about these men and women who act apart from our prescribed laws of justice." "Certainly there are many costumed heroes who would make for fascinating study." "I spoke with psychiatrist William Long to gain some professional insight." "You know, it's an interesting question." "Mostly, in the prison, I work with criminals." "So my perception is slightly skewed." "I think certainly there are masked heroes and superhumans, like Dr. Manhattan that just want to do good." "I think there are others that are nothing more than criminals who used this as a means to justify their violent tendencies." "The only masked heroes that pose an actual threat are the relatively few borderline sociopaths that actually believe that they are doing good." "Beneath that mask they're just like you and me with hopes and desires, fears love." "I hope that one day I can psychoanalyze one of these masked heroes." "That would be something." "It seems a bygone era to us now." "The heady days of the roaring '40s." "People were eager for distraction, hungry for a fix of drama." "What better than a group of self-designed superheroes to act out an exaggerated street theater of crime fighting." "And in a world populated by supervillains why not?" "There was the notorious Moloch the Mystic using the sideshow novelty of the magic show to front his one-man wave of terror." "Later, of course, came modern supervillains like Big Figure the diminutive master criminal now serving a life sentence in the city jail." "You think I'm the menace." "I'm not the one wearing a mask." "I got nothing to hide." "What kind of person is that?" "Wear a mask?" "I'm a respectable businessman." "CULPEPER:" "It wasn't easy finding Moloch the Mystic." "But then again, well, it wasn't too difficult." "You see, Moloch, like so many infamous figures of our postwar past had simply gone into civilian life." "MOLOCH:" "I was a younger man then." "I was rebellious." "Like these gangs you see around, the Knot Tops." "When you live in a world with superhuman authority figures and you wanna rebel, you have to rebel on a larger scale." "You have to escalate things, you see." "So if you grow up in a world with superheroes and you wanna rebel you have to become a supervillain." "So, yeah, I think society is better off without the superheroes because that means there's no need for any supervillains either." "MASON:" "Thank you." "Thanks." "You know, it didn't last, oh, 10 years." "When the '50s came, the whole perception of costumed adventurers you know, changed, you know?" "It was a fad, yeah." "And the fad was dying out and we were dying with it." "[CHUCKLES]" "Sally well, she got pregnant and she left." "The rest of us, we were forced to testify before the House Un-American Activities Committee." "It was a witch hunt." "We were all forced to reveal our identities to one of its representatives." "I am Captain Metropolis from the Minutemen." "MASON:" "Now, luckily, with Captain Metropolis having such an outstanding military record and with my own service in the police force we both were more or less cleared of suspicion right away." "Mothman met with more difficulty, mostly because of the left-wing friends that he'd cultivated during his student days." "Now, he's eventually cleared but the investigations, they were so lengthy and so ruthless that I think that the pressure he was under it exacerbated his drinking problem and it caused his eventual mental breakdown." "Hooded Justice refused to testify on the grounds that he was not prepared to reveal his true identity to anybody." "And when they pressed him he disappeared." "And I really respect him for that." "He was the reason I became the Nite Owl and I don't know to this day who he was behind that mask." "Isn't that something?" "[CHUCKLES]" "I understand that you wanted to leave the Minutemen because you got pregnant." "Is that the reason?" "Was there any other reasons that you retired from the Minutemen?" "JUPITER:" "You know, sometimes it's just time to move on." "I think I would've stayed longer, had I not gotten pregnant." "But it was..." "You know, life gives you those little signs of when to take the door out." "And that seemed to be the one." "In his biography, Hollis alleged that you were sexually assaulted by The Comedian." "Yet you've never said anything about this." "Hmm." "Well, why should I break a lifetime's habit now, right?" "[CHUCKLES]" "I can't blame you for asking as a reporter, but, yes, it's..." "No comment." "How much did the incident between Sally Jupiter and The Comedian affect your decision to hang up the mask?" "Well, that had lot to do with it, yeah." "I think once you realize that some of your teammates are just as depraved and twisted as the criminals you're going after..." "Yeah." "That had a lot to do with why I quit." "There's no truth to that rumor." "If something like that had happened don't you think I would have advised Sally to have pressed criminal charges?" "She was my best client." "My biggest earner." "I would never allow something like that to go unpunished." "It's nothing more than sensationalism." "Self-promotion." "Hollis Mason wants to sell more books." "CULPEPER:" "The Comedian declined to comment." "Get that thing out of my face before I put my cigar out in your eye." "Under the Hood is a fantastic book." "You know, he's one of my customers, you know." "I see him all the time." "It's funny about this superhero thing, you know, it's a very fine line." "And when you got somebody like the Nite Owl who is your quintessential superhero, because outside you get this guy who dresses up and does all the kaboom-kabang stuff but inside he's a cop." "So he's a guy who knows what's true blue." "You know what I mean?" "He's not into these kind of artsy-fartsy things." "He's a great man." "So I don't know." "Hard to say whether these masked-hero types are a good or a bad thing you know, in the final analysis." "It's interesting to note that back in 1975 people were still very much divided as to whether or not the so-called costumed adventurers were a benefit or a detriment to society." "Given the events after this interview aired perhaps Hollis Mason's retirement came at the perfect time." "We'll hear more from Hollis Mason after this commercial break." "ANNOUNCER:" "Why do so many choose Sani-Flush  instead of the other leading bathroom-bowl cleaner?" "Sani-Flush has extra power." "Cleans inside the bowl and cleans right round the bend." "Time-lapse shows Sani-Flush, with its extra power  cleans away rust stains and deposits  inside the bowl and right round the bend." "Sani-Flush, with the power to kill germs by the millions." "Sani-Flush." "Cleans inside the bowl and cleans right round the bend." "Get Sani-Flush, powder or liquid." "Continuing now with my interview of Hollis Mason." "We're talking about costumed adventurers." "He's been called the Eighth Wonder of the World." "Our national treasure." "Our greatest hope." "But Dr. Manhattan is also viewed as a freak of nature." "His power is so great as to illicit fear not only in our enemies but in ourselves." "Before he was the radiating blue superbeing he is today he was Jon Osterman, physicist, son of a watchmaker." "A man with friendships, loves, common family values." "One of his friends and, in fact, colleagues who continues to work with Dr. Manhattan today is an esteemed physicist in his own right Wally Weaver." "We went to Weaver's lab and had the following conversation." "Well, I think heroes of all kinds are a good thing." "And I'm talking about the brave men and women of our Armed Forces." "I'm talking about the policemen and the firefighters." "I'm talking about the scientists and the doctors." "And, uh..." "Yeah, I'd include masked heroes in that group that's a benefit to society too." "Jon is..." "I'm sorry." "Dr. Manhattan is something else entirely." "I'm writing a book about how he's changed the geopolitical landscape forever essentially making the very idea of war obsolete." "MASON:" "You know, the first thing was absolute disbelief." "Well, of course, as you know, there was elation too." "I mean, it was like Santa Claus was alive and thriving." "But the fear..." "It was a terrible fear and an uncertainty that went right to your core." "I certainly understood how an old car feels when it sees a new car, a new model come rolling out." "[CHUCKLES]" "But it was more than that." "You know, I think I can boil the feeling down to three words, really." "It's:" "We've been replaced." "And I don't just mean the masked adventurers." "I mean, humanity." "We've been replaced." "Hollis always did have a flair for the dramatic." "There is no doubt that it was an absolute shock to all of us." "The fact that anything could exist like Dr. Manhattan." "I mean, this was something out of the realm of concept for us." "But we will always have a need for humanity and as much as we expand and grow technologically, it's..." "We still need human contact, you know?" "People have always misinterpreted what I said about Jon." "I wasn't comparing him to God." "I wasn't saying he was a god." "I just..." "Just wish I wouldn't have ever said that." "Bottom line is this:" "Jon is still Jon." "At his core he's still a man." "Well, take what I said about supervillains being a direct response to the appearance of superheroes and apply that to the current scenario." "If you have a being that can destroy with a single thought then the terrifying thing is that there is or there soon will be, a counterpoint or an adversary to that being." "The universe has a way of finding its own equilibrium, its own level." "What worries me is that Dr. Manhattan's nemesis will be arriving soon." "Of course, some of these masked adventurers never stopped practicing their unique craft." "Eventually time moved forward to a point where their presence was again welcomed and some would say sorely needed." "Big city streets festered with violence intimidation and rampant crime." "A perfect environment for a new breed of masked hero to emerge." "Of course, I speak of the Watchmen." "Now, with the Cold War escalating and the presence of a truly super being at the forefront of our national defense a growing fear and restlessness seems to permeate the population." "Only this time, the fear is not of the criminals but of the crime fighters themselves." "Senator Keene surely thinks that the time has come to put an end to masked adventuring." "His suggested new laws would effectively clip the wings of these costumed heroes making them hang up their masks and preventing them from practicing vigilante justice in our fair streets." "Senator Keene is an opportunistic cipher." "He has no idea what he's talking about." "The real problem are the police departments." "If they would take a little bit more of what these masked heroes have then we wouldn't need people like Senator Keene in the Senate in the first place." "What do I think about Senator Keene?" "Listen, I work down here every day." "Whenever I'm in trouble, whenever somebody's down here beating me up and I yell for help, I don't care who comes to save my butt." "I don't care if it's a superhero." "I don't care if it's a cop." "As long as somebody comes when I'm yelling "help."" "You understand?" "People have a need for an everyday hero." "Masked or otherwise." "And, uh people who know right from wrong will always be in demand." "So I want to get a little personal here for the moment." "You never married." "Why is that?" " Um..." " Thank you." "Well, I suppose if there's any one reason why I never got married it was because well, Sally Jupiter was taken." "I don't think it's any great secret that I had a thing for her." "Half the male population did." "By the time I'd rustled up the courage to ask her out on a proper date she was already married to her manager." "[CHUCKLES]" "It's kind of funny when you think of it." "I dress up as an owl and risk my life on a daily basis but when it came to asking a girl out it was more than I could manage." "Sadly, I think our marriage was doomed from the start." "My professional position in Sally's life made it very difficult to be a good husband." "It was my job as her manager to not only accept the fact that men were attracted to her but to build on that attraction to prey upon it." "Hollis was very important to you." "He was a very important person in your life, correct?" "Absolutely." " You stay in contact with each other today?" " We do." "We do." "Not as much as I would like, I must say." "You know, your life takes you in different directions but that was really a magical, magical time and we do like to talk about the old times when we get together." "You know, I think..." "I think I still have some kind of half-baked idea that Nite Owl and, uh Silk Spectre are gonna end up together one day." "Hm." "When we originally spoke with Hollis Mason he believed that the legacy he'd begun as the Nite Owl along with other members of the masked-hero community would live on for years to come." "He could not have known how wrong he was." "This has been a nostalgic look back at a colorful time in this nation's past when we turned to flamboyant heroes with cartoonish outfits for our moral outlook." "In the post-Keene Act world we now live in the masked heroes are as outdated and irrelevant as the old beat-up wrecks that Hollis Mason works on in his garage." "We hope that you have found this look back at the history of costumed adventurers both enlightening and informative." "I'm Larry Culpeper for The Culpeper Minute." "Subtitles by LeapinLar"