"Hilary Barry:" "It's been a harrowingweekin thenews, sonowit 'ssomethingmuch lighterandmorefun ." "It'stimeforNew Zealand's favoritepopculturereporter," "Davidfarrier." "David:" "What do you make ofNewZealanderssofar?" "Me?" "Uh, I think that they're..." "They've been nice." "Everyone has been cool so far." "David:" "What's the main thing you'retryingto achievehere?" "Because obviously you've created a bit of a-- survival." "He's dead." " Now we're gonna spin around." " Yeah." "Whoa!" "Holy!" "It's so tiring." "Whoa!" "David:" "And what's your nickname thatyou'vegotnow ?" "The donkey lady." "Lady:" "Look out!" "Oh, look, we're going" " to have a reporter kicked." "It's quite a kick." "David:" "I can't say I've ever interviewedanyone that looks exactly like you before." "Really?" "David:" "I've made a career out of lookingattheweird" "andbizarresideoflife." "SowhenIdiscoveredastrange videoonline," "IknewI'dfound mynextstory." "Man:" "It'sgood." "It 'sgood." "David:" "An American company calledJaneo'brienmedia wasrunningamonthlyevent." "Youngathletesfromanywhere ontheplanetcouldapply." "Ifselectedtheygot  freeflightsto la , fournightsin areally nicehoteland$1500cash ." "Itwascalledcompetitive endurancetickling." "Man:" "You're with the cet, a competitive endurance tickling group we got here." "And, uh, first of all I'd like to give a shout to you," "Jane o'brien media, for making this happen." " Thanks, Jane." " We all appreciate it." "Fuck off!" "Guys!" "Oh, my god!" "David:" "Their Facebook page waspopular, withthousandsof likes." "Andwitheveryonein Adidasgear, itseemedto be some kindofticklingleague." "David:" "It was one of thestrangestsportsI'd seen." "Man:" "No!" "David:" "So, of course, ItoldJaneo'brienmedia" "I'dliketo do an interview." "Insteadofgettinga yesorno ,Igot this." "Woman: "To be brutally frank, associationwitha homosexualjournalist isnotsomething wewillembrace." "Wedesperatelydo notwant ahomosexualparticipantbase applyingforthisproject." "Myconcernis thatyour journalisticstyle,fanbase, andreputation inyourowncountry." "Regards,Debbiekuhn, Janeo 'brienmedia."" "David:" "Itwasastrangeresponse, especiallyconsideringthe sportdidseemslightly..." "Gay." "Andoverthecomingweeks, Debbie and Jane kept e-mailing." "Woman: "The competitive realitytickling isa passionately andexclusivelyheterosexual athleticenduranceactivity." "We have recently read a googled articleabouttheknowledge ofyourlivingwitha homosexualpartner becomingquiteastir inNewZealand."" ""Theremainderof theglobe doesnotin allcorners sharesomeof themoreliberal acceptanceofyourlifestyle."" ""Tomeanythingconcerning homosexuality isatbest anobjectivedisorder."" ""Shameonyou!" "Littlegaykiwis.""Faggot."" "David:" "It was hard to take theinsultsseriously, givenwhatJanewas producing." "Ifanything,it mademe morecuriousthanever." "Woman:" "Your call hasbeenforwarded tothevoicemailfor  Janeo 'brienmedia." "David:" "With no one picking up thephone," "Igotmy geekyfriendDylan todosomedigging intothismysteriouscompany andthisoverly aggressivewoman." "Dylan:" "So, I'm going to just scroll up." "So here we go." "It's registered to nederdietsen." "David:" "He discovered that while Janeo 'brienmedia seemedtobe  operatedoutof America, itwasownedbya companyin Germanycallednederdietsen, whichownednearly300 domain namesallrelatedtotickling." "Thisticklingwormholewas  gettingdeeper, soDylanandI bloggedaboutwhatwe'dfound." "Man:" "So, the pay's good." "Man:" "What?" "Okay,hold on." "David:" "Our story gota lotof attention, beingpickedup  onwebsiteslikereddit andanAmericanpodcast." "Man1:" "Backup." "Backup." " Man 2:" "When I say competitivetickling,whatdo youthinkI'mtalkingabout?" "Man 1:" "I mean, I think you're talkingabout,uh , somesortof organizedsport- man2:" "Yeah." "..." "Oftickling." "Man 2:" "Basically what happened wasthiskindofblew up ontheInternetthisweek , becausea dudein NewZealand, areporter,like,happened acrossthisFacebookpage." "Man 1:" "But is it just for fun?" "Theyjust..." "Imean, obviouslyit'sjustfor fun ?" "Man 2:" "Is it just for fun?" "It'stickling." "Man 1:" "Sorry, I don't think that question'severbeenasked aboutticklingbefore." "It'slikeamartianquestion" "abouttickling." " "Is it for fun?"" "David:" "People were so interested bywhatwe discovered," "DylanandIdecidedtomake adocumentary aboutthis utterlybizarresubject." "Twoweekslater, weheardfromJaneo'brien's NewYorkattorney," "Romeosalta." "He'drecentlymade headlinesinacase involvinga gaypornstar whochoppedaman up andmailedhisbodyparts tosomepoliticians." "Thingscertainlyweren't gettinganylessweird." "Hislettertoldustostop whatweweredoing,orelse." "Soonwewerereceivinge-mails fromsaltatellingus thatlegalaction hadbeenfiledintheus." "Ihadno moneytohire a NewZealandlawyer, letaloneface theAmericanjusticesystem." "Then,totopitalloff, Janeo 'brienmediatoldus theywereflyingthreepeople acrosstheworldfromNewYork toNewZealandtoseeus." "They'reclearlyseriousabout stoppingthisdocumentary." "Janewouldn'ttelluswhat  flighttheywerearrivingon, butshedidtellustheday." "Sofrom05 :00am , Iwaitedat arrivals." "Notsurewhattoexpect," "IfiguredI'ddisarm thesituation witha rainbow-coloredsign." "David:" "How's it going?" "I thought I'd make up a good welcoming sign." "Good." "How are you, sir?" "That's all right." "I thought I'd arrive." "How was the flight?" "Oh, good." "Air New Zealand?" "Oh, good." "Hey, guys." "Kevin, nice to meet you, sir." "David." "Nice to meet you." "You can." "I gift this to you." "As a sign, I thought it was pretty good." "Well, look, let's line up a time to meet this week." "Marko:" "David:" "Tomorrow?" " Adam:" " Marko:" "David:" "Okay, tomorrow works well." " Kevin:" " Marko:" "David:" "Oh, that's okay." "It's the New Zealand hospitality." " David:" "You can get me there." " Kevin:" "David:" "Yeah, we're just rolling from the beginning." "Yeah, yeah." "Okay." "We've got a thing in New Zealand, we're okay to film in public spaces." "So I'm just following the journey." "Okay, all right." "Well, we're" "Adam:" "It's not" "David:" "Okay." "Well, I mean, we're shooting a documentary, so we'll keep... it's a" "David:" "Mm." "David:" "Okay." "Okay." "We're okay to film in public spaces in New Zealand, so we're doing that here." "David:" "All right, we'll see you soon." " Marko:" " David:" "Okay, sounds good." "All right, see you soon." "David:" "No worries." "We'll talk soon." "Marko:" "David:" "Hey, Marko." "It's Dave farrier." "How are you?" "Yeah,good." "Howare you  settlingintoAuckland?" "Okay." "No, that sounds good to me, I think." "Just, Dylan and I both talked, and we just weren't confident, or didn't think it was a good idea just to go straight to a room." "Maybe it's a cultural thing." "Buta conferenceroom" " um, of your choosing," "Marko:" "Okay." "Whetherit'sat theHiltonor elsewhere,isabsolutelyfine." "Marko:" "Marko:" "And, um..." "David:" "Marko:" "Dylan:" "Marko:" "Dylan:" "Kevin:" "Dylan:" "Kevin:" "Dylan:" "Kevin:" "David:" "Sure." "Dylan:" "David:" "Kevin:" "David:" "Kevin didn't take toDylanverywell andwantsto meetmealone." "Iquicklymakethis covertpieceof technology." "Acamerain acoffeecup." "Kevin:" "What's the end game here?" "What do you get at the end or even if you get everything you want?" " David:" "Mm." "Mm." " And what are we risking here?" "You know, do we really want someone coming after you with all that money?" "I've known a lot of rich people in my life." "I've worked for a lot of them." "They don't work by the same set of rules." "They don't dangle them out of buildings any more, but they don't have to." "And that's the thing." "They start suing, and you're done halfway through or a quarter of the way through because it costs so much to defend yourself." "David:" "So unless..." "Essentially, I mean, unless we stop the doco, we're gonna be fucked." "Really." "It seems that's what it comes down to." "Kevin:" "I'm not gonna use those words directly, because that wouldn't be prudent." "But..." "let me rephrase." "Unless you stopped..." "Unless we can figure out a way to ameliorate that situation, we all are." "David:" "Facing lawsuits and acompanywithdeeppockets," "Iwonderedif we should justwalkaway." "ButDylanwaspartofthisnow anddidn'twanttogive into  abunchof bullies." "Kevin:" "Dylanwantsto pursuethis onhisown?" "David:" "Uh, I gather from whathe'ssaying,yeah." "Kevin:" "Okay." "Um,ifDylanwantstodo that," "Dylandoes..." "Dylanwilldo that." "Ifyoudon'twanttodo that,  thenjustwalkawayfrom it." "David:" "Yeah." "Kevin:" "And I will..." "Dylan will be dealt with accordingly." "How was school?" "Marko:" "The main thing,David,youknow,that I wantedtotellyou isthat" "Ithinkthatyou 'rebrilliant." "Andthatyouhave agreatcareer." "SoI wasreally, reallyhappyto findout  thatyouwantedjustto distanceyourselffromit." "AndI don'tunderstandwhy  Dylanwouldnotwantto." "WhatI 'mworriedabouttoo , IknowKevinsays," ""well,ifhe wantsto goaheadwithit,  lethimgo aheadwithit."" "But he'll become a real target, andbelieveme , it will be really ugly for him." "AndI would..." "Iwouldhatetoseethattoo, becauseI knowhe hasafamily and,youknow,he'sprobably, uh,a goodblokedowndeep ." "David:" "I've never heard threats likethisin my life, andallof this oversometickling!" "KevinandMarkofly  backtoAmerica." "Anda fewdayslater, DylanandIfollow." "Somethingaboutbullies withwaytoomuchmoney hasconvincedme  Ishouldn'tdropit." "Plus,wethinkthere'sa competitiveticklingshoot happeningthisweek." "We'vereachedouttonearly ahundredboysinthevideos, buttheyallseemtoo nervoustotalk." "Finallytjagreestomeet us." "WemetKevinClarke downtownlasomewhere." "Ican'trememberexactlywhere it was at, but it was a studio." "Heseemedpretty normalatthetime." "My first impression of him, you know, he was just, like, kind of..." "Kind of a little weird." "Youknow, Iwasyoungatthetime,  didn'tthinknothingofit, andI waslike,"cool." Youknow,$2000orwhatever," ""yeah." "It'sgonnabecool ."" "It was actually a hard time for my family." "A family member of mine was going through cancer, and money was tight at the household." "So I was a little bit desperate at the time as well for money, working on the side, and doing what I can." "So when i heard this dollar sign," "I was like, "yeah," you know, "I'll definitely do that."" "AndthenIwentinside andnoticedthatitwas allguysin there." "Andthat'swhenIwaslike,  "oh,dang!"Like..." "AndI didn'tknowIwas gonnagettieddown." "I had no idea what it'd be for." "Honestly,I waslike, "okay,what?"" "At that point I was like, "all right, you know what?" "It's already going down." "I don't really know what it's for, but hopefully it never gets out."" "No, no, no." "Not any fuckin'..." "Ah!" "Fuck!" "That actually tickles, dude." "Ah!" "Fuck!" "Being violated on so many different levels right now." "Therewasotherathletes." "Therewasmmaguys." "Therewasabodybuilder, andthentherewas acouple ofactors,normalactors." "I'veseensomeofthem on commercials," "TVcommercials." "Normalguys." "Like, completely normal people." "Get the fuck off my feet!" "Itwasatortureproject." "That's what I believe Kevin Clarke told me." "There was something to do with even a military tactic, or something like that." "He was gonna do..." "I think he said Jane was doing a project on using tickling as a military tactic." "And at that point, I..." "I knew it was complete bullshit, you know?" "I was like, "okay, the military is gonna use tickling as a torture tactic?"" "Fuck!" "David:" "When did the video comebackto getyou ?" "About a year, maybe a little more, ago." "IwouldGooglemyself onceinawhile, toreadoldarticles orseewhatteamsmighthave listedmein an article ortry-outs." "Andtomy surprise, avideowasonYouTube." "Hello." "I'm tj, and I'm here on a tickling competition." "And, uh, first question is:" ""Are you ticklish?"" "Well, obviously I'm ticklish if I'm here, so, that's kind of a silly question." "But, uh..." "Itwasjustme sittinginfrontofthecamera talkingaboutthe, uh,ticklingprocess." "Just weird things." "And so I was like, "okay, it's not that bad."" ""When you are asked, 'are you ticklish?" "' how do you normally respond and why?"" "Normally, I say, "no, I'm not ticklish."" "SoI emailedJaneand asked hertotakethe videodown ." "She didn't ever reply." "So I took the matters into my own hands, and I, uh, told YouTube that uh, they're illegally using my name." "So YouTube took the video down." "That's when it all started." "Woman: "Now, I am laughing."" ""Idon'tthinkyou 'vegrasped themagnitude ofwhatyouhaveprovoked."" ""I'minterestedto seehow you  handlethefallout." "Sofar,badly." "Regards,Debbiej." "Kuhn."" "That'swhenthisDeborah personpoppedintomylife ." "I mean, just all hell broke loose." "Everykindof videosearchyou canfind,it wasupthere." "Andthenit  popsupin my emails, andthenit popsup moreonYouTube, anditjuststarts appearingeverywhere." "Thisvideo..." "Just,allof them." "Allofthemstartblowingup." "And there was threats." "It said, "watch out!" "Your family better watch out because we're gonna put your last name to shame." "Any time you search your last name, it's gonna pop up."" "Like, direct threats." "They ended up making a website, puttingmy personalinformation:" "Myname,my address, mypersonalphonenumber, myemailaddress," "all with just dumb lies." "ThenDebbiekuhnstartsgoing offonme leftand right, sendingemailsto the highschoolthatIcoachat." "Woman: "I have additional information as a past employer." "Youdon'twantthis guyinyourleague." "Can you afford the distraction, thepress, withanoutedgay guy  havinga maleticklingfetish, inwhichhe likestotickle andbetickled bytied-upothergay  athletesandbodybuilders?"" "Falseaccusations, sayingI 'ma drugaddict and I was a child molester and I'm gay, and this and that, which none of those things have ever been true." "I'vealwaysbeenveryproud." "ThewayIwalkaround, I'mproudof whoIam ." "YouknowwhatImean ?" "Sotospeak." "I'mconfidentin myself asanathlete, asa person,as aplayer." "ButwhenI'dgototry-outs, thefirstthing Iwouldthinkaboutis," ""well,I wonder ifthesecoaches havelookedup thatvideo?"" "Andit'shappened." "Ithashappened." "I'vebeenreleased fromfootballteams." "They'vetoldme ,uh , that I'm the best player on that team at that position, but because it is a distraction for the media, they don't need that attention and they'll go with somebody else 'cause they don't feel like explaining it." "Youknow,andI'veactually dealt with a lot of things becauseofit ." "It's cost me money, it's cost me jobs, it's caused me harassment, which is exactly what Debbie kuhn and Jane o'brien wanted." "So, I mean, more or less in that aspect, they've won." "David:" "It's obvious we're not theonlyonesbeingharassed byJaneo'brienmedia." "Andtherearesomany websites madeupliketj's whichseemto existpurely toshametheguys who'vebeentickled." "Whatgoeson at theseshoots, andwhyis shesoaggressive?" "Dylan'sbeendoing someresearch, andhethinksheknowswhere  thenextshootishappening." "Westakeoutthe studio, hopingtofindout  howa competitive ticklingshootgoesdown." "Dominic:" "Okay, car." "And another car." "Two cars." "David:" "Two cars." "Dominic:" "Can you see what the car's doing?" "I've lost him." " Dominic:" "Who's that guy?" " David:" "Oh, that's Marko." "Dylan:" "Oh, yeah." "And we've got four guys going in so far." "Dominic:" "Four guys." "Dylan:" "That's the guy from New Zealand." "David:" "Yep, there's Kevin." "David:" "We could hear laughter comingoutof thevents." "Itwenton forhours, theboysoccasionally takingbreaks." "You know, this is actually fucking creepy as fuck." "Dylan:" "Like, this feels to me like a pep talk." "Dominic:" "Yeah." "David:" "As the day wraps up," "Iwantto giveKevin onelastchance totalkaboutwhat'sgoingon." "Withpendinglawsuits," "I'mcautiousanddon 'twantto stormintothestudio." "David:" "They haven't locked the door." "Dylan:" "I think we go." "All right." "Okay, let's go." " David:" "We're good?" " Dominic:" "Yep, we're good." "Dominic:" "Come this way." "David:" "Here we go." "We've been spotted." "Hello, Marko." "Hey, guys." "Adam, how's it going?" "Adam:" "Hello, sir." "Kevin:" "We're not welcome here?" "All right." "Well, we'll head off." "You don't want to do any final chats or anything?" "Last opportunity." "That's all we can do." "Turnright onbellevueAvenue, thentakethefirstright." "I think... yeah, uh, after New Zealand and that," "I think it's safe to say that we don't..." "We don't have an interview with Kevin or Marko." "Andwecertainly weren'tgetting anymoreof thecompetitors totalkon camera." "Theywerealltoo terrified, hopingiftheystayedquiet, theharassmentwouldgoaway ." "Dylan:" "I mean, are we making the whole thing worse for everyone just by even being here?" "David:" "Yeah." "I think it's possible." "I worry that we make it worse for some people who..." "Who've gotten through the worst of it, you know?" "Dylan:" "Mm." "David:" "Jane o'brien clearly isn'tbeinghonest aboutwhatthevideosarefor." "AndI 'mconvincedthatdespite theAdidasgear, it'snotarealsport." "I'vetrackeddown amanin Florida who also makes tickling videos, but,unlikeJane,ismore  thanhappyto talkaboutit." "Richard:" "People ask me about what is the appeal of tickling?" "It'skindof likethe whips andchains,youknow, bondagesortof thing,where somebody'sgettingflogged." "Butit'sjustreallybrought downa level,youknow?" "It'slikekindofa sadistic exertingyourwill onsomeoneelse, andhavingthemdosomething outoftheircontrol likelaughingwithout beingableto getaway, asifit 's,uh , tickletortureto them." "David:" "And a lot of people don't seem to know about the tickling fetish." "Do you think it's a little bit more unknown?" "Oh, totally." "Yeah, completely." "'Cause most people, you know, know about a foot fetish, um, but tickling?" "Most people are like, "oh, wow." "Is that a thing?"" "Itwasin 1999." "Ihadjust gottenoutof gradschool, youknow,so Ijustgot avideocamera, puttogetheralittle businessplan," "talkedtooneofmyfriends andhefinancedme,  whenI startedthesite," "Ithinkfor$6000or$7000 ." "Itgotprettymuchan immediateresponse." "Iwasmakingenough aftera year toquitmy job anddoit full-time." "David:" "So this is it?" " This is it." " This is the studio." " Mm-hm." " The chair." "And then the changing room, bathroom." "And so, this whole place is purely for the tickling?" "Yes." "David:" "Oh, so you've got a few differentspaces,right?" "Richard:" "Yeah, yeah." "Iusedto do allthis outofmy house." "David:" "Yeah." "And then it was, you know, a parade of people coming in, do all this, have to clean up." "You know, have to clean it up before a shoot." "And this way I can walk away." "Yeah, this is great." "Like, "I'm tired." "Going home."" "David:" "You're done." "Well,thisis work,right?" "It'slikework,home." "Richard:" "Mm-hm." "Exactly." "Have you done stuff like this before for anyone else?" "Or this sort of a unique thing for you?" "Uh, unique thing." "I never worked for a tickling site before." " Okay." " Man:" "No." "David:" "And what did you first thinkwhenyougot the pitch?" "Man:" "I mean, I laughed about it." "I'mlike, thiscan'tbe reallyserious, like,peoplereallycan 't..." "Enjoywatchingthis orgettingit done." "But, um, I said, "why not?"" "You know, I'm more of like the risk-taker." "I'd rather say I did something than didn't do something." "So I came down, really was kind of nervous, didn't know what to expect." "And then..." "But Richard put me at ease, and once you're trapped in you're there." "So, I mean, you might as well enjoy it." "All right." " Richard:" "Okay, ready?" " I think you're..." "Man:" "Take it easy on me today." "Richard:" "Yeah, yeah." "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah." "Man:" "That's good." " Got to enjoy my freedom now." " Richard:" "Yeah." " Because I cannot." " Richard:" "Wave goodbye." "I am not getting out." "Oh, shit." "The world of tickling." "So, catch your breath." " Breath caught." " Okay." "All right." "Now tell everybody what a tough guy you are." "Just go." "Stop." "Oh, my gosh." "I hate this." "David:" "So when did you realize thatyoufoundtickling tobean eroticthing?" "Richard:" "I was very young, you know, probably five or six." "You know, very, very young." "Youseesomethingina cartoon ora magazinethat,you know, kindofinterests youasalittlekid,  andforme it wouldbe,  youknow,like, cartooncharactersbeing tickledortiedupor," "youknow,thatsortofthing ." "Anditwould,you know, fascinateme, butI hadno ideawhy ." "Richard:" "How do you feel?" "I feel tired." " I feel sweaty." " Can I get you some water?" "Yeah, water would probably work." "Richard:" "I started to become comfortablewiththis,uh,  fetish and this part of myself, andstartedto reallyrealize thatitwasapart ofmyself, whenI ..." "When I got on aol and then did a search for what I was looking for and found that, "wow!" "There's actually, you know, quite a lot of other people that are into this."" "Atthetime, thelate'90s, was,um,somebodythatposted onthemessageboardsalot ." "Andshesaidher namewas Terri,Territickle." "AndTerridisisto,she put  inwhatherrealname was." "Shealwayshadapicture ofherself." "Youknow,ablonde, pretty,college-agedgirl." "And,shealwaysposted thesameverbiage." "Somethinglike, "thisisnotporn." "Myinterestis in tickling."" "Andshejustsaidthat shewas aticklingfanaticand ..." "But, I mean, these posts were everywhere." "Andthen,um ,somevideos startedpoppingup , youknow,very, youknow,innocent." "And,thoseareprobably thefirst ticklevideosthatI eversawon theInternet." "David:" "There are still traces of Territickleonline fromthemid-'90s, andasRichardsaid, shewastickle-obsessed." "LikeJane, shealsohiredotherpeople to shoot the videos she wanted." "Well, the, uh, just strange, rich brat," "I guess you could say." "Someone who, uh, got her rocks off by, uh, seeing guys, uh, tied and tickled." "Obviously an extreme dominatrix." "David:" "For most of his life," "Davestarrhasworked ontheedges oftheentertainmentindustry, evenactingin a coupleofpornos." "Duringthemid-'90s, he noticed Terri's online posts wantingticklingvideos..." "Lotsofthem." "Dave:" "Terri was, uh, out there looking for guys, uh, 18 to 23." "AndI ,uh,figured thatitwould,um..." "Besomething rightupmy alley, basedonmy ,uh , workingincasting." "David:" "What sort of things was she recruiting for specifically?" "Uh, tickle torture films." "Tickle torture videos." "Can you turn that thing around so I can see it?" "Man:" "All right." " Is that all right?" " Yeah, that's good." "Dave:" "She claimed it was fora privatecollection, soI wasthinking, "okay,amateurhour."" "Butme,Irapidlytook it intoa professionallevel." "Man 1:" "Okay,areyou,uh, ticklish?" "Man 2:" "Uh, yes, I am." "Man 1:" "Okay, step forward about a foot." "Okay." "Place your hands behind your head, inter-clasp them." "Step back a little further, though." "Okay, right about there." "Okay, inter-clasp them and do not release them at any time during the entire tickle test." "Do your worst on this one." "Dave:" "We would put them inthrough theirstageoneaudition, whichisthequestions andthetesttickles." "Man 1:" "Do not collapse." "Stay looking up at us." "Stay facing us." "Dave:" "Stage two is tying them to thetable,ticklingthem, flipping them over every 15 minutes, kind of like a sausage or meat." "Dave:" "And then after that, uh, we had the competitive tickling at that point." "Tickle wars and stuff like that." "And that would involve a massive production." "Woman:" "Okay, don't laugh." "You'regigglingalready, aren'tyou?" "Well,youjustmightbe thetypeof person thatDavidstarr islookingfor." "HeisaHollywoodproducer workingonanew  reality-basedgameshow calledtickletalk." "Dave:" "Woman:" "It might be preferableto eatingratsor grubs onsurvivor butjustbarely." "I'mAnneJames, ksen k96 news." "David:" "Dave starr had steady workforfiveyears, evenwhenTerriwas  hospitalizedforsixmonths." "Duringthattime, shejustwrote lettersspecifying exactlywhatshewanted intheticklingvideos." "Terri:" ""David,merryChristmas!" "Sosorry, I'm in the hospital with mono."" ""David,justafew things Ineedyoutodo..."" ""TellthemIwillsend the computerassoonasI 'm well."" ""Hisnameis Josh.""Ihope  tobeonlineagaininfeb."" ""I'mstillsickinbed. " "That'sallfornow ." "Td. "" "My most ticklish place is, i guess..." "Definitely, like..." "It'd have to be in my legs..." "More than, like, my armpits or my feet, I think, but..." "Dave:" "At that time shewantedto putup and did indeed put up a website for a while, uh, unauthorized releasing of the videos..." "Against the agreement of the talent, and I flipped my lid." "And, lo and behold, she goes and registers domains in their names and then proceeds to..." "Release all their content on to those particular websites." "Alden:" "She was, like, sendingmeemailsabout,um," ""whatdoyouthink yourmother's gonnathinkaboutthis?"" "Andthen,like,I'd belike , youknow,"fuckyou ,bitch."" "Andshe'dbe ,like..." "Like,totallyantagonizing." "Like..." "Imean,shewas suchacunt." "It was an assault not just on me but on my family, you know?" "I mean, I couldn't have a more conservative family, you know?" "I'm, I'm in a family full of republican, military people, and I'm a..." "I was a professional banker." "And here I am, like, with basically a porn site, where I'm not naked, but, i mean, I might as well be." "You know, this was ruining my life at the time." "That's how I felt." "It certainly was affecting my ability to function, because it was so emotionally draining." "Part of the reason was because there's nobody to help me." "It's like you lose control over, you know, your life." "Dave:" "Well, that's when the, uh,crapstartedhappening, uh,withme ." "Um,youdecide, "okay,becauseI, uh ," "Icloseddown submissionsforher, and," "I guess, I basically was like her tickling drug dealer, and, uh, since she wasn't getting her drug any more, she was going through tickle withdrawals." "David:" "And what happened?" "I started, uh, receiving the, uh, strange postcards, and the, uh, strange messages." "The, uh... the, uh, talent was starting to receive messages." "And, uh, she also deployed a thing called the phone blaster, which was to call everybody with obscene messages." "Woman:" "Thisperson'son drugs." "This person's gotta be on crystal or something, or taking cocaine up the ass, or something like that." "It was weird." "I'm glad to be able to make this available to you." "David:" "David kept a number of lettersTerrihadsenthim andwaskeentoshow me theextentof theabuse." " All right." " This is the magic stuff." "All right, what have we got?" "Yeah." "Uh, these are basically copies of what she would post online." "So who's Barbara?" "Is that your...?" "That's my mother." "David: "Hairy and horny." "Hairy and horny." "Jewish tickle filmer David w." "Starr is hook-nosed, hairy and horny."" "She's used that tagline for many, many, many times." "What did your...?" "What did your mother think of this stuff when this turned up?" "I mean..." "Actually, her phrase was, uh..." "Here's a, uh, note that she left me because, uh, she would hold these for me in the mail and basically just say, "here's another nasty thing."" "And that one actually is unopened." "I've never even opened it to this date." "And let's see what our little illustrious friend had to say." "Oh, god." "So it's a card." "David: "Roses are red, violets are bue."" "Can't spell worth shit." ""David w." "Starr has brought this upon you." "Perhaps you wish, perhaps instead, that David your failure, not Edward, were dead."" "That's a reference to my brother, who is dead." "That's, uh, really extreme." "A little bit psycho." "But, I mean, what...?" "When you were getting all this material and some of it's talking about your brother who" " has passed away and..." " Uh-huh." "Writing this stuff to your mother," "I mean, that, that must have..." "I mean, that... that's not nice receiving that on weekly basis." "Uh, no, but it was on a weekly basis, uh, yeah." "Yeah, where did they have the time?" " Jeez, it's a birthday card." " Yeah." ""Happy birthday." "Edward starr dead." This is really cruel, right?" "It's very sick." "David:" "The more I hear aboutTerridisisto, themoreshesounds likeJaneo'brien." "Tostatetheobvious,they  bothreallyenjoytickling." "Theyalsolikebeingin controlandlashingout ." "I really appreciate it and stay in touch." "David:" "And it turns out Terri'shabitsstarted waybeforeDavestarr gotinvolved." "I'vefoundajournalistwho'd spenta yearuncovering thetruthaboutTerridisisto duringthe'90s." "Hal:" "Terri disisto's mo wastobaittheseboys  intomaking ticklingvideoswith things that they wanted, right?" "You know, I mean, imagine being a teenage boy, and, like, you get this random email saying, you know," ""i saw your posting about the phish concert, and, uh, how would you like to go?"" "Or, " I can send you $1000 cash."" "And you're like..." "You're living in your dorm at James Madison university." "You're like, "yeah, sure." "You're gonna send me $1000 cash." "Right."" "Fedex pulls up in front of your dormthenextday , andthereis ten$100bills." "Youhaven'tdoneanything." "Shewouldjustkeepsending themwhatevertheywanted, youknow." "Computers, cameras,morecash, ticketstorockconcerts." "Thenatsomepoint, evena teenageboy hasallthetoys thattheywant." "Andtheysay,"i..." "I'mdone. "" "ButI thinkthethingthat  shehatesthemostwasno." "It was like..." "A bomb went off." "Andshe'dsay,"well, ifyoudon'tdoit, I'm gonna make your life hell."" ""I'mgonnasendclips ofthesevideos toyourwrestlingcoach."" ""I'mgonnasendclipsof thesevideosto yourmom ."" ""I'mgonnasendclipsofthese  videostoyourgrandmother."" ""I'mgonnasend clipsofthesevideos tothepresident ofyouruniversity."" ""I'mgonnapostthem allovertheInternet."" ""I'm gonna pretend to be you and do things on the Internet that are gonna create a terrible reputation for you."" ""I'm gonna shut down the entire college campus computer system at your college, and they're gonna think it's you."" "And then it happened." "Debbie:" "The first story I did wasbecause shewasattacking,um,  drexeluniversity." "And I found the student who, um, had made a number of videos for her." "Andwhenhe cameto Philadelphiatogo to college, shewantedhimto continuemakingthesevideos, andhewantedtocutoffhis relationshipwithher." "Andsheretaliated onsomanylevels." "Theiremailservers'computers werebeingshutdown withthese denial-of-serviceattacks thatindicatedthatthey werecomingfromhim ." "Email-bombingthewhitehouse, indicatingthat itcamefromhim ." "Yeah,that'sprettyserious stuffwhenthesecretservice showsupin yourcollegedorm  andyou're19 yearsold ." "Iwasjustcurious, andI somehow startedcontacting Terrionaol." "Shehadan account." "Andwewouldhavethese chatslateat night." "AndI wascuriouswhatkind of mindwasbehindthis..." "CelebratedInternetpersonage.." "Anditwas, itwaskindofcrazy." "Wewouldhave theseconversations, and she would..." "When she realized that I did wine, she would say," ""oh, I'm having a glass of chardonnay!"" "And I could just hear this voice because as it went on, it was almost like she was completely intoxicated with this power that she had to..." "To be so destructive against people." "Hal:" "I got word about a kid who refused to make the videos." "Hepostedthat heneededsomehelp, andsomebodysaid theywouldhelphim ." "Andsomehowhe got emaileda file, andhewastold,"ifyouemail thiszipfiletoTerri, shewillleaveyou alone."" "And then he sent me that zip file." "Youknow,andIremember openingitup andthinking..." ""Wow!" "You know, this is it." "Like, this is..." "This is the smoking gun."" "David:" "The zip file contained documentsfromherharddrive." "Asexpected,therewerefiles relatingtoticklingshoots." "Buttheyalsorevealedthe trueidentityof Territickle." "Hal:" "David d'amato." "Sheisreallyhe, right?" "Debbie:" "He was an assistant principalinahighschool?" "Ijust..." "Couldn't believe it." "I don't know why, but it just seemed..." "Here is this sadistic person exploiting these young people, often underage," "making their lives miserable, embarrassing them, to an extent that it's every..." "It goes against everything that an educator should be doing." "Hal:" "When I did some more checking,I foundoutthat hehadworkedat, like, eightschoolsin tenyears." "Which to me was always a red flag that there was something else going on." "I mean, that's more than just sheer incompetence." "AndthenIfound social security numbers for her thathehad gottenfraudulently..." "Withdeadpeople'snames." "SoI contactedtheFBI ." "Iturnedoverall my informationtothem." "Within a week, they busted him." "Debbie:" "We were shocked atthesentencing becausehegotoff soeasy ." "Forsomebodywhohad doneso muchdamage, to me it was just extraordinary." "And to not, to not have restrictions on their" "Internet access after that, how could...?" "And the... oh!" "And the idea that he was going to law school was just absurd." "David:" "It turns out David d'amato's father, George, co-founded one of wall street's biggestlawfirms, d'amatolynch,and David gota reallygreatlawyer." "Insteadofprison,d'amatowas allowedtoservehis sentence inthehalfwayhouse whilehestudiedlaw  athisfather'sAlmamater, Fordhamuniversity." "Hal:" "The judge, forsomereason, decidedthathe wouldendorse thelawschoolpath,right?" "Because,like,thisisexactly thekindof person that should be a lawyer, right?" "Somebody who has defrauded people, somebody who has stolen people's identities." "A federal freakin' crime, right?" "I mean..." "like, you know, stolen identity." "Stolen a social security number of a dead woman, of two dead people, right?" "Itsaid,"Davidd'amato, 39,ofgardencity, pleadguilty for two federal counts of computerfraudandabuse."" "Nothingaboutthetickling, nothing about the boys, nothing abouttheidentitytheft." "Zero." "Nothing." "David:" "Once Fordham became aware of d'amato's convictions, hisadmissionwasrevoked." "Nolongerabletostudylaw, d'amatofinished hissentencein prison." "ButI 'verealizedthat didn'tstopthetickling." "David:" "So, this is 2002." "So this is writing to David starr, who would shoot these boys tickling and then send the videos..." "To Terri." "That was a, that's-- because she, what she would have is..." " Do you want your glasses?" " Back in the early days..." "Yeah." "Back in the early days..." "Terri would have friends tickle them and send them the..." "They were amateur tapes." " These are now professional?" " Well, this is..." " Look at the date on it." " '02?" "Look at the date." " Is the "t" Terri?" " Yeah, it's Terri writing." "So that was during, um, lock-up time." "Oh, in jail." "I get it." ""David, a few other things." "Email... explain my illness."" "Oh. "Tell him I'll pay everything owed as soon as the mono is better."" "Oh. "Get headshots." My god!" "Oh, my god!" ""I won't be online for a while as I am very sick." Oh." " Couldn't stop." " No." "No." "David:" "It seems that sincethemid-'90s," "Davidd 'amatohasnever stoppedfindingelaborateways togetyoungmen  totickleeachother." "Hispersonaof Territickle seemstohavedroppedoffthe radararound2006." "Awhilelater,Janeo'brien arrivedonthescene." "We'veposted thistheoryonline, and David d'amato is not happy." "He'shirednotone ,but two  privateinvestigators, oneinNewZealand andonein NewYork." "The message is clear." "They tell ustostopwhatwe'redoing  andthatd'amatohas nothing todowithJaneo'brienmedia ." "On top of that," "Davidd 'amatohasalsohired aNewZealandlawyer." "He'sdemanding anapologyandretraction orelsehe 'llseeus ina NewZealandcourt." "We'renowbeingattacked byJaneo'brien'slawyers ononeside andDavidd'amato's ontheother, bothinsistingtheyhave nothingtodo witheachother." "Onceagain,we 'reway outofourdepth." "Thingsgetevenmoresurreal witha phonecall fromMichigan, wherethere'saverydifferent ticklingoperation alsobeingrunbyJane ." "Jordan:" "David:" "So, like, crimeisprettyhigh" " Jordan:" "Yeah-- -..." "Here,right?" "Murder,robberies,um ,rape, Imean,theft." "It's all up there, especially for being as small, um, as what it is." "We've made it now, uh, on to the top 100 most dangerous cities in the United States." "David:" "Doyouthinkonsome level" "Janekindof directedthings here because it is a poor area?" "Yeah, you know, the poverty level, you know," " is easy to target, you know." " Mm." "Thousands of dollars in kids' hands is..." "That's a, that's a big, big deal." "David:" "Jane has taken a liking tooneof muskegon'smain sports,mixedmartialarts." "Agroupof young,athleticmen desperateforextramoney." "Jordan:" "That's what shewastryingtodo, isbreakintothe mma world." "Becauseit'snotillegal toticklesomebody togetoutofa submission inmixedmartialarts." "Like,shewastrying topitchthat becauseshe,like, lookeditup in allthe rules andeverything." "But if you tickle a guy in the middle of that ring to get out of a submission, you might step out of the cage and get punched in the face." "Like, never in a million years out of all my fights would I ever try to tickle somebody to get out of a submission." "Fuck, no!" "David:" "As an ex-fighter," "Jordanwaspaidtorecruit ticklingtalentin thetown." "He'stheonlyone inmuskegon preparedtoappearoncamera." "Sheofferedmy onebuddya 2014Chevycruzeand $30,000." " What?" "What for?" "To tickle?" " Yeah." "Just 'cause, like, she liked him." "Yeah, right." "She..." "He was a favorite." " Like, yeah." " Yeah." "Asians and redheads are what they call premiums." "If you get those, like, she gives you bonuses." "I'm Jordan schillaci, and this is cet." "Uh, we're gonna be having a discussion, more of a debate today about whether tickling is effective in a combat situation." "Weendedup settingup aticklecell." "Like, whereyougetguystocomein," ""we'llpayyouand you  paythemto audition."" "No!" "Sowe'dchooseahotel, nothingfancy, and,uh,theguyswouldcome inandhangout ,you know, smoke,drink,eatpizza, fuckin',andwe 'dhurryup" "andrunthrough,you know, five,six,sevenguys." "So you're... you were looking after the tickle cell in muskegon?" "Yeah, they have them set up all over the us." "Ohio, Michigan, Florida, New York." " I mean, they're everywhere." " Right." " And they're all for Jane?" " Yeah." "Fuckin' hell." "Jordan:" "Well, that's where alotof peoplestarted gettingreally reallyupset,man." "Becauseallof sudden thesevideos thataresupposedtobe just auditions were on YouTube, vimeo,andeveryother siteyoucouldimagine." "Yeah,yeah,yeah." "Nobodywasokaywith that ." "Oneoftheguys,Brodie, like, his family was very upset withhim." "It wasall over." "Like, people just picked on him andpickedon him." "Youknow,he wasunderage, stillinschool." "And it wasn't supposed to go out on the Internet." "It wasn't supposed to be put up, and, uh, you know, that just kind of sucked." "Because, like I said, it took Brodie..." "It hit one of the hardest." "Like, this whole situation and then being underage and his parents." "Who do you have to turn to?" "Who are you going to attack?" "No..." "Jane o'brien's a ghost." "Nobody knows who it is." "Jordan:" "Cody-bear, no." "This is Colton, this is my nephew." " David:" "Hey, man." " Colton, how old are you?" "How old are you?" " Three." " You're three?" "You're three?" "All right." " I'm David." " I'm Phil." "How are you doing?" "It's nice to meet you, sir." "I was really, really reluctant when Jordan started talking about this." "And he's like, "this lady seems straight and legit, mom."" "I'm like, you know, "these... these boys are young."" "It's easy to believe, but when you're an old mom, you're a little more leery for the boys, and," "I was very leery right from get-go that the boys were gonna get into trouble and this was not legit." "Jordan:" "She has all the money in theworld,it seemslike, whoeveritis , tobeabletodothis." "Butthey'rewaitingfor  thatdaythatyou rely onthatas asoleincome." "Thatwasherbig , Ithink,powertrip." "Shewaiteduntilabunchof usreliedon thatincome because that was our only source of income." "We'd been doing it for so long, we didn't think..." "She waited until she had complete control, basically, over your situation, and that's when she wanted to yank that rug right out from under you." "David:" "David d'amato." "Have you heard that name before?" "In relation to all this stuff?" "I am literally, like, trembling right now." "Are you actually shaking?" "Yeah, I'm actually, like, shaking." "Like, I'm not, like..." "Like I said, like, from being from here, I don't take shit." "Like, if I met up with that guy, I'd punch him right out." "And when he woke up, he'd be strapped to a chair with a..." "Like, I'd be like," ""dude, you're telling me everything right now."" "David:" "The tickling's still happeninginthistown." "Jordan:" "The money is endless." "I'veneverseenitstop coming andjustflowingin." "Andit'snotjustthrough Michiganandla , it'severywhere." "Like,england, Australia,Italy." "Imean,themoney's stillcomingandgoing." "David:" "This tickling empire iswaybigger thanweeverimagined." "We'regoingto NewYork tofindDavidd'amato." "I can feel the rich/bad aura." "Davidd 'amato'saddressis  listedingardencity, anaffluentsuburb oflongisland." "Heliveson thetop floor ofthisbuilding." "Lance:" "LanceRobertsspeaking." "David:" "Oh,hi." "It 'sDavidspeaking." "Ijustwantedtotalk to Davidd 'amato." "Lance:" "Um, okay." "I can't giveyouhisphonenumber." "Ireallycan'teven giveyouany personalinformationon him." "David:" "Okay." "Lance:" "Do you know him?" "  Yes, I do." "Yes." " You're a friend of his?" "Um,I 'mnotafriend,no, butI 've,um..." "I'vebeentryingtoget intouchwithhim  buthavebeenstruggling." "Lance:" "Okay, what I do is," "Ihaveaway ofleavinghim amessage." "Ican'tguaranteethat he'sgonnacallyou back ifhedoesn'tknowyou." " Okay, thank you so much." "Bye." "You'rewelcome." "David:" "D'amatonevercallsusback , andwe'vegotnootherwayto  contacthimdirectly." "So annoying." "It's all right." "There's still tomorrow." "David:" "But that night we get a frustratingphonecall." "My concern is that we can't do more or less anything we have planned for the rest of the trip." "I know." "It's, like, it's fuckin' insane." "Okay." "Bye-bye." "David:" "All the threats are worryingourfilm'sproducer." "Hedoesn'twantus toriskprovoking anyfurtherlegalaction fromd 'amato." "So he's saying," ""well, what if you do everything that you were gonna do, except don't go and chase d'amato down?"" "And I'm like, "well, anything we do that lets d'amato know we're looking into him again."" " Well, from now on in is that." " Yeah, literally." "So he says, "well, maybe we cut the thing short, then." "Just go home."" "I know it's like..." "It's fuckin' insane." "David:" "The next day we put chasingd 'amatoonhold." "Iwantto knowhow onearth aformerdeputyprincipal paysforallthis." "Wecan'tfindany signhe's  earningmoneyfromthe videos, buthe'sspendinglots ofmoneymakingthem." "He'sflyingup to tenpeople intolaalmosteverymonth fromall overtheworld, puttingthemup  ina nicehotel, payingthemthousandsincash ." "Andthat'snoteventaking intoaccount thecostof running ticklecells, liketheoneinmuskegon." "BothDavid'sparents arenowdeceased, buthisfather'slaw firmis oneofwallstreet'sbiggest." "MaybeDavidis  reapingthebenefits ofhisfather'sempire." "Woman:" "D'amatolynch." "Oh, hi." "I just had an inquiry, um, about the relationship with, uh, um," "David d'amato with the company, the son of George d'amato." "Is there someone I could talk to about this?" "No,I 'msorry." "AndMr. d'amato hasbeengonefor along time ." "Yeah, yeah." "I'm looking into the background to his son, David." "And I'm just trying to figure out whether he's got any financial relationship with the company still." "No,I ..." "I reallydon'tknow." "I'msorry,Ican 'thelpyou." "Is there someone I could talk to at d'amato  lynch to find out?" "Mm." "Not that I believe, no." "I'msorry." "Okay, but there must be a way to find out, surely?" "Um,nothere." "Thankyou." "Woman:" "I haven't seen David inquiteafew years." "I have no knowledge of him now." "Notinmanyyearshave I hadanycontactwithhim,  soI reallycouldn'tgive youanyinformation." "David:" "Yeah, he's been prettyaggressivetowardsme,  soI 'mjusttryingtofigure outwhathismotivationsare- - woman:" "Get away from him, that'sallIcan tellyou." " David:" "Really?" "Yeah." "Stayawayfrom him." "David:" "This was every conversationI had withanyoneevenremotely relatedtoDavidd'amato." ""Ican'ttellyou anything, butstayaway."" "ButallIwantto doistheopposite." "Someonehasto confrontthis bully,lawsuitsor not." "Dylan:" "Okay." "So, this is the car we're looking for." "It's a Mercedes benz ml430." "David:" "David d'amato has gone outofhisway toavoidus." "Wefigureif we waitoutside hisapartmentlongenough, eventually he'll have to leave." "Dylan:" "So, that's a Chevrolet." "Oh, hang on a second, what's this?" "What's this?" "What's this?" "Okay, there's a car there." "I can see it." "Now, just in the edge." "Hang on." "David:" "A grand cherokee." "Well, maybe just a cherokee." "But it's certainly not a Mercedes." " David:" "What's the time?" " Dylan: 2:44." "So we've been here for, like, four hours?" "David:" "We've been waiting likethisfordays." "Dylan:" "Come on." "David:" "And it seems like he'llnevercomeout ." "Dylan:" "Okay." "Let me just check." "It's also..." "It is the right type of car." "It's got white plates." "Hang on." "Hang on." "Okay." "It's him." "It's him." "It's him." "It's him." "He's coming out." "Just wait here." "Just sit here." "All right, stay cool." "Okay, I'm gonna..." "Okay, he's up here." "He's in the right-hand..." "Is he in the left-hand Lane?" "David:" "Yeah." "He hasn't turned right." "He's in..." "Whoa!" "You're one car behind him." "You're right in his..." "In his mirror now." " I'm breathing heavily." " Yeah, same." "Dylan:" "Okay." "Okay." "It's cool." "We're right behind him now, so back off a bit, so we're not gonna be too close." "Okay." "Just stay... stay back." "Stay back, David." "We're gonna have to stop right behind him now." "You might have to take the camera off the tripod, dom." "David:" "Yeah, camera off tripod, please." "Dylan:" "Starbucks?" "Okay, this is perfect." "David:" "Okay." "He'll be a while." "Okay." "I'm just gonna go and have conversation when he comes out." "You've..." "I've got my phone if you need me." "Okay." "David:" "I'm about to meet thismanwho'sbeen sucha threateningfigure insomanylives, includingmyown," "andI havesimplynoidea  whattoexpect." " Dylan:" "He's coming out." " David:" "Mr. d'amato." " Hi, it's Dave farrier." " D'amato:" "David:" "Hey, how are you?" "D'amato:" "David:" "I just wanted to talk to you briefly." "If I could." "Because I was just..." "I'm just worried about..." "The legal letters you've sent me, and I just wanted to know if we could just talk about it face-to-face." "D'amato:" "David:" "Is there?" "D'amato:" "I'm on a journalism visa, so I'm, I'm okay to be here." "I'm okay to be here." "But I just..." "Could we just talk a little bit about" "I just wanted to find out what's going on." "D'amato:" "Because the last heard I was gonna be in a us court and a New Zealand court, and I really just wanted to sort this out face-to-face." "D'amato:" "And I just want to sort of..." "I mean, I'm not here to antagonize." "I just genuinely want to be able to help out." "D'amato:" "Well, you did say you were gonna sue me." "And I just wanna sort this issue out." "D'amato:" "Could you contact me if possible?" "David:" "I went away feeling numb." "D'amatowascalm,going instantlytolegalthreats, which is what he's always done, Isuppose,as Terri, asJane, ashimself." "Butafterallthis,Istill  couldn'thelpbutwonder werewetotallycertainthat  d'amato reallywasJaneand Debbie?" "Couldwebe wrong?" "Sowewentbackto whereitallstarted, those300domainnames connectedto thenederdietsengroup." "Andthat'swhenthings wenta littlecrazy." "Ononeof those domainnames therewas justa directorylisting, includinga foldercalled "mydocuments"." "Itlooksliked'amato hasaccidently madehundredsof his privatefilespublic ontheInternet." "There'sd 'amato'ssignature ona nederdietsen registrationform." "There'salsoacontractwith  theinvestigationcompany hehiredto lookintous." "The address is exactly the same astheaddressusedby Janeo 'brienmedia whenbookingroomsatthe HiltoninNewZealand." "Thentherearedocuments andsignatures forDebbiekuhn andJaneo'brien..." "Who'salsogother  owncreditcard." "Anditturnsout thatd'amato didfinally getthatlawdegree, fromhofstrauniversity in2011." "He's also been telling the boys toentertheUnitedStates ona touristvisa, eventhoughthey'reworking." "Andit'sfinallycleartome  howhefunds histicklingempire." "Asoflate2012, hehadalmostsix million inhischeckingaccount." "And his living expenses were beingpaidby atrust establishedbyhisfather." "He also inherited millions from hismother'sestate whenshediedin2014 ." "It'sallfamilymoney." "Therearealsolotsofemails sentfromJaneo'brien's legaldepartment." "Withthisin mind,wecall  intoseeRomeosalta, thelawyerhired byJaneo'brienmedia who'sbeensendingusall thelegalthreats." "Wewantto askhim about thecorrespondence hisofficehassentus." "David:" "But I just thought you'dbecurioustosee..." "Thingsbeenissued inlacountycourt, that'ssignedoffhere withyourname." "There's another example of that withthatemailaddress." "Romeo:" "Yeah." "To that, as opposed to you." "I mean, we got the one from you originally, which we... it's fine." "We don't need to talk about that." "It's very simple." "I only sent one." "Dylan:" "Yeah." "David:" "Yeah." " There's your answer." " Yeah." "Romeo:" "I'll see what I can do to make those stop." "Have they stopped?" "Dylan:" "Uh, we haven't heard anything for a little while." "They're listing your address as their corporate headquarters, though." " My address?" " Yeah, if you look at..." "David:" "Your office. your address is listed as their corporate headquarters." "Yeah, but it's not my" "Dylan:" "No, no." "On their website at the bottom." "Romeo:" "But it's not, um..." "Dylan:" "I don't know if it's..." "It says "office of corporate counsel and New York headquarters."" "Romeo:" "Well, that's my address." "David:" "Yeah." " But it's not their..." " It's crazy." "But it's..." "Um, I mean, is this weird to you?" "That this person has taken on-- it is." "Of course, it's weird." "David:" "Almost every legal letter we'dreceivedfrom fromsaltawasfake." "Likesomanythings connectedtod'amato, theywerealljustlies , liestosupporthis addiction toticklingvideos." "Istartedthisjourneycurious abouta bizarresport calledcompetitive endurancetickling, butI nowthinkthiswas neverevenabouttickling." "Thisisaboutpower, controlandharassment." "It'saboutoneperson's twistedness andhowfarthatcango." "Onepersonwho'smanagedto shelterhimselfwithmoney tokeephisobsessiongoing." "Butnowit 'shislifeexposed." "Foronce,it 'shimoncamera." "BeforeweleaveAmerica, there'sonelastphonecall  Iwantto make." "It'sa namewe found inthedocuments, oneofDavidd'amato'slast  survivingfamilymembers." "Dorothy:" "Hello?" " Oh, hi." "Is that Dorothy?" "Yes." "Oh, hi." "My name's David farrier," "I'm a journalist from New Zealand." "How are you?" " Okay." " Yeah, good." "Hey, sorry, it's probably a bit of a strange call to receive out of the blue, but I'm doing a story about, uh, David d'amato." " Oh, in what way?" " Um..." "He's been... it's the..." "He's sort of back to the tickling stuff again." "Oh,heis ?" " Yeah, he is." "Oh,god!" "Well,I willtellyou that, um,I haveno contact withhimat all." "I mean, did you think all this had sort of come to an end?" "Ididthink,ofcourse, itcameto an end, becauseheservedtime, whichI 'msureyouknow." "Mm." "ButI don'tunderstand,um..." "Idon'tunderstandwhy he wentbackto doingthis." "I'm,like,in shock." "How long hashebeendoingthis ?" "It's never stopped." "Ithinkhe hasa splitpersonality." "He'slikethatfineline  betweengeniusandinsanity." "Idon'tknowifhe's gay orhe'sasexual, but he's never had a girlfriend thatI everknewof." "Iaskedmy husbandonce,um, ifhewouldbeupsetif hefoundouthewasgay." "Andhesaidthathewould be upset but he would get over it." "Buthewasanonly child, and,youknow,hewanted grandchildren." "Hehadavery, verystrangechildhood." "Thekidsusedtomake  funofhimall the time." "Andsheusedto..." "She...hismother." "Hewasveryclose tohismother.." "Andhismotherwas very protectiveofhim." "Sheneverlethim rideabike orgoskiingordoanything becauseshewasalwaysafraid thathewouldget hurt." "AndfromwhatIunderstand, thekidsusedtocome around thehouse, andtheyusedto makefunof him." "Andoncetheylockedhim ina lockerin school." "And,youknow, hewasateacher..." "Andtheythrewhim  outofschool." "Youknow,Iwas afraidofhim, becauseI 'maloneand,um..." "Yeah,I wasafraidofhim." "So,youknow, I'mafraidof him."