"He's reaching out, really, for the downtrodden" "Of society, for the average Joe on the street who wants" "To look up to his lyrics and his music and say," ""Hey, this man's talking my language."" "You guys don't like explaining anything" "To do with your music..." "There's nothing to be said," "It's all in the music, man." "It's all in the music." "If there was a John Lennon-type figure" "For the so-called "Generation X," it would be Cobain." "The body of Nirvana leader Kurt Cobain" "Was found in a house in Seattle on Friday morning," "Dead of an apparently self-inflicted shotgun blast" "To the head." "An electrician hired to work on Cobain's home" "Walked up to this room above Cobain's garage" "And made the shocking discovery this morning." "A suicide note was found." "This is a puzzling case," "A very disturbing case." "It first got reported that Kurt was missing" "And Courtney Love hired private investigator Tom Grant." "I had been involved in" "Missing persons cases before." "Some red flags started popping up immediately," "So I began recording every conversation I had with Courtney" "During the entire period that I worked for her." "My name is" "It could be made to look like a suicide." "People that I had do this, I paid." "I've walked into cases that looked" "Like they were suicides that turned out to be homicides." "Cobain's wife, singer Courtney Love," "Was in England on tour with her band Hole" "When the body was discovered." "As it is, she has inherited an estate" "Worth tens of millions of dollars." "That's motive." "Did Courtney Love kill Kurt Cobain?" "Did she have a hand in any kind of conspiracy?" "These are favorite topics of fanatics." "There's nothing in the medical examiner's" "Report or coroner's reports that could not have easily" "Have been duplicated by a murderer." "It's entirely possible that a police officer," "No matter how well-trained, may not see or notice" "A particular item of evidence." "Kurt Cobain was not barricaded" "Inside the room." "He did not leave his driver's license out." "No one would believe that was a suicide note." "Kurt Cobain was injected with three times" "The lethal dose of heroin." "The media was getting this wrong." "Are you sure he's not in there?" "I knocked for at least five minutes." "If he's there he would have answered." "Alright, I just don't wanna end up" "On the wrong end of a shotgun." "Let's go." "Careful." "Kurt?" "Kurt!" "If we find it we're gonna have" "To take it, right?" "Yeah." "Which I can legally do since I bought it." "It's in my name, so..." "Not here, could it be under the bed?" "Might be." "No." "Alright, let's move this." "Alright, what is this?" "This mean anything to ya?" "Rohypnol, that's where they are." "What?" "He kept saying someone stole 'em," "But they've been sitting there." "These are what he OD'ed on in Rome." "Well she didn't want us to take those." "Yeah." "Uh, wait a minute." "Would she be okay if you keep 'em?" "Yeah." "Are they legal here?" "Yeah, they're completely legal, they're like..." "What are they used for?" "They're sold as a sedative for" "Sleeping ailments, and sometimes they're given to people..." "And if we get pulled over, you're not" "Gonna get arrested for havin' those?" "No, they're fine." "Well it's obviously not here, the shotgun." "No, and I dunno where it would be." "Is there anywhere else?" "No." "Okay." "My name is Tom Grant." "I was hired by Courtney Love to find her missing" "Husband, Kurt Cobain, in April of 1994." "My father was a schoolteacher," "And this is a man I never caught one time" "In my entire life telling a lie." "He was the best role model anybody can ask for." "By the time I became a junior in high school," "I definitely wanted to be a police officer." "Graduating from the L.A. County Sheriff's Department" "Was a very proud day for me and for my family." "My first assignment was a patrol division" "At West Hollywood Sheriff Station." "When I quit the department, I quit in very high standing." "From there I moved on, took the test" "And obtained my own private investigator's license." "I believe what makes me a good P.I. is that I always apply" "Logic and common sense to everything that I do." "I've seen a lot of suicides, a lot of murders," "And I don't try to pre-determine anything." "And if I feel that my client, that's coming to me" "For help, is in the wrong based on what they're telling me," "I'll let them know, "This could be a pretty"" ""Dangerous trip for you."" "Scratch the surface of most P.I.s and you don't find a clean" "Record, you find a lotta skeletons." "And then we met Tom Grant." "It turned out he had an exemplary record." "He was respected, he was a stand-up guy." "There was a consensus, and that went a long way" "To convincing us of his credibility." "The word conspiracy is actually a legal term." "It simply means two or more people plotting" "Or planning to commit a crime." "Even committing shoplifting with another person" "Can actually be charged with conspiracy." "When somebody refers to me as a conspiracy theorist," "I take it as an insult because I know what they mean by it." "Hiring me is not like hiring an attorney." "It's not to protect you, it's not to keep you outta jail." "My job as a private investigator is to find the truth." "It's simply to find the truth in the matter" "That you're hiring me for." "On Easter Sunday, I was in my office" "With a private investigator who worked for me" "Named Ben Klugman, and we were dealing" "With a client when the phone rang." "Now who calls on Easter?" "Would you excuse us for just a second?" "The Grant Company, how may I help you?" "And it was a woman's voice on the other end," "Kind of a raspy, low voice." "Now if someone is unlawfully using your credit cards," "Maybe the police are the better people to call." "And then she said, "My husband and I are"" ""Kinda famous, and we need to get this done right away."" "And your husband's name?" "Are you kidding me?" "No, no." "I was about 47 at the time;" "Ben Klugman," "My investigator, was 29." "He immediately knew who they were" "And what had been going on, even in Rome" "Just a few weeks earlier." "Because it was a holiday, of course, there were very few," "If any, other private investigators working, so she went" "Through the Yellow Pages and she found our ad" "And I was probably one of many that she called," "And I think she was probably surprised" "To have the phone picked up." "What room number?" "It's not very often that a private investigator goes" "Against his client, so I'm sure she regrets hiring me." "When we were available to meet Courtney" "At the Peninsula Hotel, first thing she said," "And this is her words, they're not mine," "You leak this to the press, I'll sue the fuck out of you." "Well, hello to you too." "How ya doin'?" "Kurtis came from rehab a couple days ago." "He bought a ticket back to Seattle, but nobody's seen him" "Since he got back." "When I first entered the room, she was wearing" "A negligee nightgown, totally see-through." "She might as well have had nothing on whatsoever." "I called the credit card companies" "And told them that the card was stolen" "And that they should cancel it." "Was it?" "What?" "Stolen." "No." "Courtney eventually told us that Kurt's credit card" "Actually wasn't stolen, that she had called the" "Credit card company and canceled it so that nobody" "Could use it." "She felt that that would, essentially, cut him off" "From any funds." "I'm sure your husband has another way of getting money." "Are you kidding me?" "Kurt is helpless, he doesn't have any friends." "Again, in her words, "You don't understand."" ""This guy can't even catch a..."" "Fucking cab by himself if he wanted to!" "Hey." "Hey." "That's my drug dealer." "I didn't know at the time that this was supposed" "To be an in-house rehab." "I learned that later, but a total farce." "Most of the time I was with her, she was either" "On drugs or doing drugs." "There was nobody overseeing what was going on there." "Listen, Kurt escaped from rehab," "He bought a shotgun, and I just feel like something bad" "Is gonna happen, okay?" "In the middle of all this conversation, she keeps talking" "About how suicidal he is, and how everybody thinks" "He's gonna commit suicide." "Everybody knows it, everybody thinks" "He's gonna die." "Hold on a second." "If he bought a shotgun and he's suicidal," "Then dealing with this credit card problem," "That's the least important thing we could help you with." "Okay, well that's where I want you to start." "She started off with a lie when we first talked to her" "On the phone, saying why she wanted to hire us," "Which wasn't true, and then she starts telling us" "These other things that just didn't add up." "They weren't logical, they didn't make sense." "So all kinds of red flags started popping up." "I dunno what's gonna happen with this case," "But we are gonna document everything." "Looking back on that day, it turned out to be a day" "That really changed my life forever." "The name Kurt Cobain goes through my mind," "Probably three or 400 times a day, at least," "And it has for the last 20 years, by necessity," "Because of the e-mails I get, the letters I get," "And all the other stuff, because he was so famous," "And it gets a little bit old after a while," "Just thinking Kurt Cobain, Kurt Cobain, Kurt Cobain." "Kurt Cobain, Kurt Cobain, Kurt Cobain," "Kurt Cobain, Kurt Cobain." "Growing up in Aberdeen," "Basically not a whole lot to do." "Nine months out of the year is very dreary," "Very overcast, lotsa rain." "It's kinda hard living in this area and not being depressed." "Employment opportunities in Aberdeen," "There's not a whole lot." "For the most part, we were lower-middle class." "I don't think we would be considered poor," "We certainly didn't go hungry." "The first two weeks of the month, everybody gets" "Their welfare check, the bars are packed." "The last two weeks of the month, the bars are empty" "And that's pretty much the state of living." "Kurt used to live across the street," "And his mother and him, they'd sit out there and argue" "For a half hour or 45 minutes, and the wife and I slept up" "In the upstairs bedroom, so we used to hear it." "I knew Kurt Cobain from the high school." "He ran around with my two oldest sons." "The couch I'm sitting on now is the couch" "That Kurt slept on." "He stayed for a few days, and then a few days more," "And it just sorta stretched out to be about a year." "It's a depressing atmosphere, but I also think" "At the same time, that's why we have so many bands" "From all over Washington State." "There was nothing to do." "It rained constantly, so what you had to do was" "You had to improvise." "People tended to pick up instruments and play," "And I think that just affected the music" "For this whole region in general." "In our neighborhood, we lived a block away" "From the group that became the Melvins." "Metal Church lived in the house next door." "We had examples of people who made it." "I used to see him with his drum sticks beat" "On the stop signs, on the fences, and his dad had" "A old Ford pickup, he used to beat on that." "When he first saw the Melvins live for the first time," "He just knew that that was what he wanted to do." "The day that changed his life." "Before Nirvana, we were called Skid Row," "And then we went from Skid Row and we played live" "On the radio, a midnight show on Chaos." "The very next day, I showed up at Kurt's" "And Kurt had his easel and he was paintin'" "This picture, and I looked at it and I go," ""What the hell?"" "It was a painting of a giant pen" "With its cap all chewed up." "From that day on, we were called Pencap Chew." "We did some shows as Pencap Chew," "And Kurt tired of that, so we're Ted Ed Fred." "They don't like that no more, so we're gonna be Bliss." "The fourth name was Bliss," "And then the fifth name was Nirvana." "I didn't see him as being particularly" "Different emotionally from any of us." "I think people tended to read him wrong," "Just because he was a quiet person." "I don't see Kurt as being depressed at all," "I see him as being optimistic." "He gave me a lotta hope," "To hopefully, some day, get outta this area" "With my music." "Nirvana, Mudhoney and the Melvins was doing something." "It was proactive." "To me, that takes courage, and he had that courage," "And that was the big difference." "He had so much talent and tremendous amount" "Of creativity to give, so it's unlimited," "What he could've done." "It would be nice to, eventually, start playing" "Acoustic guitars and be thought of as a singer" "And a songwriter rather than a grunge rocker." "Because then I might be able to take advantage of that" "When I'm older and sit down on a chair" "And play acoustic guitar like Johnny Cash or something," "And it won't be a big joke, but who knows?" "My last real memory of Kurt" "And it's not a good thing for me, but I was on my way" "To work and I had to get gas." "I stopped in at one of my former employers" "And I was gettin' gas for my car, and they actually" "Had the radio playing." "They overheard it on the radio and stuff," "Standing, paying for my gas, and it was like..." "I can't forget that day." "I called the credit card company" "Like you said, and" "They told me he also bought two tickets" "On United Airlines." "Where to?" "They don't know, or they won't tell me." "All they told me was how much he paid for 'em." "So, I dunno." "Maybe he's going to hang out with Michael again." "Michael." "Stipe." "Lead singer of R.E.M?" "Anyway, I figure he flies up, gets his guitar" "From Seattle and then he flies down to Atlanta," "But he has two tickets." "Did he buy a ticket for someone else?" "I think Kurt wants a divorce." "Why would you say that?" "He left me a note in Rome, he said he's leaving me." "The subject of divorce came up almost every time" "We talked after that." "Whenever Courtney referred to divorce," "She would usually say something like..." "The only way that a divorce is gonna happen is" "If I bust him for infidelity." "Has he been unfaithful?" "Yes!" "Yes, I think so." "Courtney, on several occasions, mentioned that she thought" "Kurt might be having an affair with Kristen Pfaff," "Her bass player." "She was very jealous, and she also felt like he might" "Be having an affair with Caitlin." "His drug dealer." "If Kurt's in Seattle, he's with her." "She seemed to be very jealous of anybody" "That got near Kurt, and wanted to know every little move" "That he made." "So I planted a story in the news yesterday," "Saying that I had OD'ed and that I was in the hospital," "Thinking that Kurt would get scared and call me." "I dunno, it's like..." "I've got this record coming out in a week," "And so I know the value of this, but I didn't think about it" "When it first happened, but" "Anyway, what do I tell this guy from the Associated Press?" "Should I call and confirm it, and so the story goes out," "And say I was there?" "I tell you what, and this is just my gut instinct" "Yeah." "That way there's no drugs involved" "And the sympathy goes to me." "The press always perceives me as just completely" "Tragic and fucked up anyway, so I don't know." "Thank you very much, that's a lot of information," "And we'll go do our job." "We were already convinced that Tom was sincere," "That he believed what he was saying." "He certainly wasn't lying." "He brought us into this office with a safe," "Opened the safe, and there was this trove of cassette tapes," "Just hours and hours of tapes." "And then he starts playing us the tapes." "And the facts were there." "She's just, coming across as very controlling" "And very angry." "Something was going on that was outta the ordinary," "And there was more to this than what I was being told." "I called Seattle Police," "Filed a missing person's report." "Did they ask when you were comin' back?" "She filed it in the name of Wendy O'Connor," "Kurt Cobain's mother." "If I filed it under my own name." "So all the media that went out after that" "That said Kurt's mother filed a missing person's report" "Was totally false." "On April 4th, Kurt Cobain's mother, Wendy O'Connor," "Filed a missing person's report on her son" "Because he reportedly fled a" "Quote end quote, "facility."" "She did not clarify whether that was a drug treatment center" "Or not, but that's what people are speculating." "She was worried about Kurt because he had a shotgun" "In his possession." "She considered him suicidal." "That should get things going, right?" "Right." "What about Caitlin?" "I know that they're together." "I've got someone watching her apartment." "He hasn't showed up." "I wanna put someone on your house too," "Because sooner or later he's gonna come home." "But if Kurt's still in Seattle," "He's hiding out, he's not gonna be at the house." "He likes to stay in hotels, fancy hotels downtown." "He uses the name Simon Richie." "Mm, mm, or Bill Bailey." "You should check that out." "The next day, on Monday, when we hadn't had" "Any success with the really nice hotels in Seattle," "We began calling some of the other smaller motels," "And we located a motel, and there was a" "Bill Bailey registered there." "I wanna send one of our guys over there" "To see if it's Kurt." "No no no no no no, I don't want Kurt to know" "That I'm looking for him." "Send somebody over there," "Just have them watch the hotel, okay?" "Okay." "I dunno, 15 or 20 minutes went by." "What do you mean you called the hotel?" "I thought that you said that you didn't want Kurt to..." "No!" "I, Tom..." "Okay, listen, if he's not there," "Then I think we need to set up a team" "At the Lake Washington house." "It's a waste of time, Tom." "You know what, he's not gonna be there." "Is there a reason that you don't want surveillance" "On your house?" "Yes, because we don't need it." "Cali's there, he'll tell me if Kurt shows up." "Earlier in the day in a conversation," "Courtney told me she didn't trust Cali," "And she said he's one of the best liars she's ever met." "But now, all of a sudden, she tells me" "He won't tell anybody." "I'm not as effective for you here" "As I would be up there." "I'd like to move the entire search up to Seattle." "I know I got guys on the ground there, local guys," "And if I were there I could move 'em along a little." "That's fine, you can go." "That's great, that's great." "Why don't you go up there, Courtney?" "Because I can't!" "I have business to take care of here." "Look, I'd appreciate it if you didn't tell anyone" "I was traveling up there." "If anyone knows, they might tell Kurt," "And then he could flee." "Absolutely, I think it's a really good idea." "Okay, I'm gonna get goin'." "Save the American icon, Tom." "As I was getting ready to fly to Seattle," "Courtney told me about Dylan Carlson." "Dylan knew all the hangouts, he knew the house" "Really well." "Kurt's best friend was Dylan Carlson." "So what are you thinkin', is he suicidal?" "No, not at all." "He's been under a lotta pressure but he's been handling" "Things pretty good." "I know he and Courtney have been having" "A lotta troubles lately, but..." "I don't know why Kurt married her." "They don't get along, they don't agree about anything," "They're always fighting, that type of thing." "This thing in Rome, did anybody say" "That that may have been him tryin' to kill himself?" "No, it was an accident." "Everybody knows that." "I asked him several times about whether Kurt was" "Suicidal or not, and it was almost a joke to him." "It was like, "No, of course not."" "'Cause I'm thinkin' if he was as suicidal" "As she says he is, why would she let him buy a shotgun?" "He's not suicidal." "We bought that shotgun the day he went to rehab," "Been a burglary at the house recently." "The police had just confiscated his other gun," "So I registered it in my name." "Trust me, if he was suicidal, I would never let him" "Get a shotgun." "Singer Courtney Love says Cobain had first written" "A suicide note to her which said, in part," ""It's not fun for me anymore, I can't live this life."" "There was a mythology that, "Oh yeah"," ""Everybody knew he was suicidal,"" ""That was just obvious,"" "So it was no big surprise when he finally killed himself." "And then you go to those closest to him," "The people that knew him best," "And none of them believed he was suicidal." "I've never heard Kurt talk about suicide or anything," "He always seemed happy around me." "Quiet, shy, but definitely happy." "Never hinted to me that he was depressed." "His music and his lyrics portrayed a darker side" "To some of his emotions, but I think that was glorified." "People start to analyze the lyrics and look at some" "Of the things that he wrote and say," ""Of course, look at what he wrote here."" ""Obviously he's talking about suicide."" "I'm tired of people thinking, trying to put" "Too much meaning into my lyrics." "A lotta times when I write lyrics, which is" "At the last second 'cause I'm really lazy." "And then I find myself having to come up" "With explanations for it." "There may be one or two lines in a song here and there," "But I swear to God, brother, it's really not" "As much as it seems." "The pain in his stomach, this was a big thing" "This stomach pain that he'd been suffering for years" "Was so severe that it made him wanna kill himself." "He did talk like that, there's no question," "And once that was diagnosed, it was treated," "And the pain went away." "How's your stomach?" "Have you found anything to..." "It's gone." " Yeah?" " Yeah." "I finally have been prescribed the right stomach medicine" "After six years of being in constant pain, finally." "I haven't had a stomach problem for over a year now." "The stomach pain and the outlook and his disposition" "Seem to be very closely linked." "He had given an interview to Rolling Stone," "Where he said he was happier than he'd ever been." "Is this your idea?" "When you hear Courtney spinning this whole" "Elaborate timeline about how he tried to commit suicide" "Before and he was talking about suicide" "To everybody he knew, that just seems to be fiction." "Rather chillingly, Love says that three of Cobain's" "Uncles had also committed suicide." "She calls it the Cobain curse." "As far as the suicide history in the Cobain family," "Leland Cobain's father, he was a Monte Santo" "Police officer, and he went into a bar one day" "And he sat at a bar stool." "This was back in 1938." "His gun somehow dislodged from its holster," "Hit the ground, and according to the report," "He looked around in the bar and asked if everybody" "Was okay, and then immediately collapsed." "He just fell dead." "From what Leland has told me about his brother," "His brother was drinking and he fell down a staircase" "And died from complications of that." "Neither Kurt's great-grandpa" "Or his great-uncle were suicides." "One of the important elements in the case," "And in convincing the world that it was suicide" "Was the so-called "Rome suicide attempt."" "Nirvana front-man Kurt Cobain," "Who slipped into a coma and was hospitalized" "In Rome, Italy, at about 6AM this morning, was in a state" "Of what his management calls "complete collapse."" "His condition was apparently aggravated" "When he consumed champagne on top of a" "Prescription painkiller called Rohypnol." "At the time, the word suicide was never used" "By the media, by Courtney, by Kurt." "It was portrayed as an accidental drug overdose." "He recovered from the coma, and his publicists" "Said the incident was an accident, not a suicide attempt." "As soon as Kurt died, first interviews that Courtney gave" "She started talking about previous suicide attempts," "Rome was a suicide attempt." "Courtney started telling people" "That Kurt had swallowed 60 pills." "You swallow 60 pills, that's not an accident." "That's a suicide attempt." "So we decided to contact the doctor that treated Kurt" "In Rome, Doctor Galletta, and he categorically denied" "That there were 60 pills in his stomach" "And that it was a suicide attempt." "At the time, Kurt and Courtney both said it was" "An accident, and the doctor confirmed that." "So there's just no evidence that he had ever tried" "To kill himself before." "No anecdotal evidence, nobody else close to Kurt" "Ever said that he tried to commit suicide," "But the world just took Courtney's word for it." "While I was in Seattle with Dylan and we were driving" "Around, I mentioned to him that Courtney said" "That Kurt only stays in the best hotels," "And he was almost incredulous." "He practically laughed and he said," ""That's ridiculous!"" ""He hates fancy hotels, he stays in really cheap places,"" ""Mostly along the Aurora strip."" "Have you seen him or not?" "Okay, come on." "I'm gonna call Courtney and check in." "I dunno what's goin' on." "Dylan told me that when they did stay at those motels," "They usually stayed for two or three weeks," "Basically living off of Coca Cola and potato chips" "And doing their heroin." "Courtney always wanted to go through Dylan," "She wanted to talk to Dylan on the phone" "And have Dylan give me the instructions." "Courtney's had some trouble, she was in the hospital" "And she got arrested." "What?" "She said that it was all a big mistake and she's fine." "She wants us to go back to the house and look" "For the shotgun again." "She thinks it might be in the hidden compartment" "Of the bedroom closet." "Hidden compartment?" "She hadn't mentioned that to us before," "But she said, "That's where Kurt keeps the shotgun"," ""So if it's there, that's where it's gonna be."" "Let's go." "Remember this from last night?" "No." "The note that was apparently written by Cali" "Didn't make sense." ""Kurt, I can't believe you managed to be in this house"" ""Without me noticing."" ""You're a fucking asshole for not calling Courtney"" ""And at least letting her know that you're okay."" ""She's in a lot of pain, Kurt, and this morning"" ""She had another accident, and now she's"" ""In the hospital again."" "We looked in that little hidden compartment." "There was no shotgun there." ""She's your wife, she loves you,"" ""And you have a child together."" ""Get it together to at least tell her you're okay,"" ""Or she is going to die."" ""It's not fair, man."" ""Do something now."" "Later when I talked to Rosemary Carroll about it" "And I told her I was suspicious of it," "She jumped in right away, and she knows Cali real well, too." "Dylan and I headed out to the town of Carnation," "Just outside of Seattle." "Kurt and Courtney owned two cabins there," "And we were curious to see if there had been any evidence" "Of Kurt being there." "We got about halfway there when we stopped to get gas," "And Dylan made another phone call." "I got a phone call from our electrician," "Gary Smith, and he was doing some security lighting." "We had a house above." "We just knew it was a rock star in Seattle," "We weren't sure, didn't know who he was." "He literally just stumbled across it." "He looked through a doorway, a glass door," "A locked door, and he saw a body." "And he said, "I think he shot himself."" "I called a radio station, told 'em what happened." "So I answered the call and there's a guy" "On the end of the line, and he's goin', "I have got"" ""Some incredible news here."" "Anything?" "A friend of mine said he just heard they found a body" "At Kurt's house." "What?" "Rock group Nirvana is dead." "An electrician discovered Cobain's body" "In the singer's Lake Washington home this morning." "The electrician tells KOMO news that emergency crews" "Told him that the dead man is Kurt Cobain." "When I heard that the body was found" "In a room that was called the Greenhouse, I turned" "To Dylan and I said, "What's the Greenhouse?"" "And he said, "It's just a dirty little room"" ""Above the garage."" "They stored lumber or something in there." "It sounded to me like this was just" "Some kinda broom closet or something." "So do you think he intentionally" "Did not tell you to check that room out?" "Again, I hope the listeners bear in mind" "We're having to skip over an awful lotta stuff..." "I glanced down on the floor and I saw" "Something that looked like a mannequin." "I can see blood in this ear, and long hair," "And immediately got a little shaken." "The French doors were locked." "I was first in and right away could see" "That it was a fatality." "The shotgun lay in his lap, a significant pool of blood" "By his head." "There was nothing we could do for him," "So we didn't touch the body." "We'll check for mail or somethin' with a name on it." "The officer said, "Do you want the name?"" "Knowing I needed it for my log book." "He said, "It's Cobain, Kurt Cobain."" "A couple of second delay and my head snapping' around," "I said, "You mean the rock star?"" "The developing story shocks the music world." "A man found dead this morning is rock star Kurt Cobain." "Cobain's body was found about a..." "Apparently it was a suicide..." "Was so severe that his body could only" "Be identified by fingerprints." "Police can't release the details found" "In Cobain's suicide note, but over the past couple" "Of years, Cobain has had some tough times." "Cobain was 27." "He joins a growing list of rock stars who burn bright" "Then burn out tragically." "When we arrived at the property" "It was broad daylight and the Greenhouse stuck out" "Like a sore thumb." "You could see it from the street above the bushes," "It was so tall." "I just didn't understand why he didn't point that out to me." "That's Entertainment Tonight." "He's Rolling Stone." "Dylan didn't like the press and he said Kurt didn't" "Like the press." "Current Affairs;" "stay away from them." "Ho ho ho." "I'm Tom Grant, how are you?" "Fine." "I was hired by Courtney Love to investigate" "The disappearance of her husband." "I've got information I think would be helpful." "Could I speak to the detective in charge?" "Wait here." "He said he's too busy to speak with you now." "Call the station after 3PM;" "you can talk to him then." "I was dumbfounded by that." "If I were a police officer investigating the dead body" "And somebody told me there was somebody outside" "That had been in the house the night before," "I'd tell them, "Hold him."" ""If they say they need to leave, handcuff 'em,"" ""And keep 'em there until we get a chance to talk to 'em."" "You don't let somebody like that go," "You don't take a chance until you've fully investigated" "A case and determined positively how this person died." "The Seattle Police Department claimed" "They were investigating this as a possible homicide." "If they were, they certainly wouldn't allow somebody" "To leave when they'd been in the house the night" "Before a dead body was found on the property." "I'm Norm Stamper." "I was a police officer for 34 years," "And last six from 1994 to 2000 as Seattle's police chief." "I wouldn't pretend that there aren't police officers" "Who are cynical and suspicious and skeptical." "That was the case in the Kurt Cobain death." "John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King," "Elvis Presley, Marilyn Monroe." "Over the past 50 years as a" "Medical-legal forensic pathology consultant," "I've been involved in thousands of cases," "About 18,000 autopsies, and I have reviewed," "Signed off or supervised, and evaluated" "About 38,000 other autopsies." "I have personally investigated, supervised," "Consulted and researched on over 8,000 homicides." "I wrote Practical Homicide Investigation because there was" "A need for a standard protocol to approach all death scenes." "From the very beginning, everything that the detectives" "Encountered indicated to them that this was a suicide." "The decision to rule the case by police the same day" "And to make a public pronouncement that this was" "A suicide is not the way good police agencies" "Would function today." "As a homicide commander," "I would not be making any proclamations" "That the case was a suicide without the evidence" "Having been processed:" "the victimology," "The medical-legal process, toxicology." "It's a death investigation." "They knew nothing about the drug level," "They knew nothing about fingerprints," "They knew nothing about anything else at that time" "Except that they had found him with a shotgun." "The reason we call things death investigations is" "That we don't wanna prematurely make them" "Homicides, suicides or accidents." "It's a death investigation." "Cases that involve prominent figures," "These cases usually take more time because you know" "That there are gonna be more questions." "People are gonna wanna know every single" "Thing about it." "In the Philip Seymour Hoffman case," "They found him with a needle in his arm." "They found 50 bags of heroin right there" "In his apartment, and yet they did not make" "Any announcement beyond that." "They knew that they should not be commenting." "Official statements as to cause and manner of death" "Do not come from police or even homicide detectives." "They do not." "I've never believed that the police were involved" "From the beginning in any kind of a conspiracy" "Involving Kurt Cobain's death." "I think they were set up by Courtney Love" "From that missing person's report," "And everything that it said in it." "If my officers heard or were made aware" "That Kurt Cobain had left rehab, had purchased" "A shotgun, was suicidal, that's of course going" "To affect them." "They, what I call assumed the suicide position," "Which to me means cut corners, not do this," "Not do that, because it's a suicide, no problem." "I have to admit, there's been a lot of inconsistencies" "In this case." "Really?" "The reports that were coming out in the media said" "Kurt Cobain was barricaded inside the Greenhouse." "Look at this photograph." "Is that the lock you're talking about?" "I dunno where this picture's from," "So I couldn't say." "Well, it's from the Greenhouse." "I've been over the place inside and out," "And trust me, that is the only lock." "If you say so." "Presuming I'm telling you the truth," "Why would you say that he locked himself in?" "Because the door was locked." "Look at the picture." "It's not a deadbolt, it's a twist lock." "Anybody coulda twisted that lock and pulled the door shut" "Behind 'em when they left." "Look, the lock doesn't matter." "There was a stool wedged up against the door." "Now how do you wedge a stool against a door" "After you've already left the room?" "The police reports plainly states that the stool" "Was simply sitting in front of the two unlocked" "French doors at the other side of the room," "But on one of the reports, it was added that the stool" "Was blocking the entrance." "Someone reported that there was a stool" "Blocking the door." "That wasn't the case." "I dunno where that came from." "If you could just show me the photographs" "Your officer took at the scene, we can put that issue" "To rest once and for all." "Well the photographs haven't been developed," "Probably never will be." "We don't develop photographs on suicides." "I have never heard of that." "Every case I've been involved, with the crime scene" "Photographs were developed." "Why not release 'em to other experts?" "I can't answer that question." "It was something that the Seattle Police department did." "In hindsight, they probably shouldn't have." "But that's what they did." "Nothing you've said convinces me this is anything" "But a suicide." "Now do you got any other pearls for me?" "Not at this time." "Detective Cameron resigned when he learned" "I was preparing to fire him." "He had colluded with one of his own detectives" "To replant evidence that had been stolen" "By a homicide detective at a homicide scene." "And it was for that reason that I was preparing" "To fire him." "I'm just giving you the information I have," "I don't care what you do with it." "I understand that, but I think your investigation" "Is into things that our investigation doesn't apply to." "You don't allow a patrol officer" "With no homicide investigative experience" "To determine whether a scene is a suicide or not." "My opinion is, in 1994," "They just didn't look at anything." "If it appeared to be a suicide, it was a suicide." "Case closed." "The news media do poison the atmosphere," "And I have been involved in cases in which" "It was impossible, almost, to overcome the beliefs" "That had been created within the community" "Because of the way in which that particular death" "Had been reported." "Judging by the evidence at the scene," "Love says, Cobain apparently drew a chair up" "To a window looking out on Puget Sound, sat down," "Took some more drugs, picked up his shotgun and," "Using his thumb, it seems, shot himself in the head." "The physical damage was so severe that his body could" "Only be identified by fingerprints." "I was a bit surprised." "Normally a shotgun wound to the head," "The ones I've seen, are pretty devastating," "Often making facial features unrecognizable." "His head was not grossly deformed or badly damaged." "I think I certainly would've recognized him." "I don't see any reason why anyone wouldn't have," "Who knew what he looked like." "Seattle's own police reports indicate" "That Officer Lavendowski found Kurt Cobain's wallet" "Lyin' on the floor." "He opened it up and removed his driver's license," "And he put it on top of Cobain's wallet" "To take a photograph for evidence." "Most of the media reported that Kurt left" "His driver's license exposed, and a lot of 'em went" "Into a lotta detail:" "That he did that so that everyone would recognize him." "But it was completely false." "Love, who, contrary to rumor, says she and Cobain" "Hadn't broken up, says Cobain had first written" "A suicide note to her which said, in part," ""It's not fun for me anymore."" ""I can't live this life."" "News media play a great role in these matters." "John Kennedy, incidentally, pointed out" "The need for integrity within the news media." "This has been something that was commented" "Upon going back to our founding fathers," "Because sometimes pressures from news media" "Can be very, very significant." "I don't have the right to make an opinion" "On anything that I read or see on television" "Until I go to the fuckin' source myself, personally." "The toxicology report from Kurt Cobain's autopsy" "Indicated a heroin blood level of 1.52 milligrams per liter." "Five milligrams will produce a level" "Of 0.035 milligrams." "Most users, even heavy users," "Only use up to 40 to 60 milligrams in one hit." "So you can see, to reach 1.52 milligrams per liter," "You're talking about an amount that would have" "Certainly have exceeded 200 milligrams that were injected" "Into Kurt Cobain." "Three times the amount that would be considered lethal." "I think very legitimate questions have been raised" "About the level of heroin." "We have not, in 18 years, found a single case" "Where somebody could have the level of heroin" "In their body that Kurt did and still remain conscious." "70 times the lethal dose" "For the average person, triple the lethal dose" "Even for the most severe heroin addict." "It would have incapacitated him," "He would have been unconscious." "And then roll down their sleeves, put away their heroin kit," "Pick up the shotgun, position it backwards" "And pull the trigger." "That deals with coordinative functions." "How about the emotional aspects of this?" "Why would he then shoot himself before the drug" "Has had a chance to take effect?" "No study that I know of has correlated use" "Of heroin with suicide." "I cannot think of a case in which I have had someone" "Inject himself with a large amount of heroin" "And then proceed to kill himself." "It just doesn't make sense, and it doesn't fit in" "With these kinds of situations involving heroin." "These are questions that I think deserve answers," "And in fact, require answers." "Many of the questions could be answered" "If the medical examiner's office would make public" "The autopsy report." "I haven't been able to see the toxicology report" "Or the autopsy report because I haven't had access" "To review the actual documentation from the authorities." "The autopsy report is public record." "Apparently in this jurisdiction, it is not." "In the case of Kurt Cobain, they should've made them part" "Of the release with the Freedom of Information." "Why they didn't do that, I dunno." "In hindsight, maybe they should've." "We wouldn't be having this discussion today." "There was a documentary made about 1997, I believe," "Called "Kurt and Courtney."" "I cooperated with the producer and director of that," "Nick Broomfield." "Tom Grant's assertion that 1.52 milligrams" "Of heroin per liter of blood would have incapacitated" "Kurt were discounted by Doctor Colin Brewer," "Formerly director at Westminster Hospital." "He gave us this color slide of a patient balancing easily" "On one leg, who had taken the equivalent" "Of over twice the amount taken by Kurt." "The problem is that this man had taken methadone," "Not heroin, and he had swallowed the methadone." "Methadone is a pain medication." "It's also used to treat heroin addiction," "And because it's taken orally, it 's absorbed much slower." "It takes time to get into the blood, so it can take" "Up to an hour or perhaps two before it reaches" "Its highest concentrations." "Heroin, on the other hand, injected directly into the vein," "Is immediately available to circulation," "Immediately available to the brain." "Comparing oral methadone to intravenous heroin." "What's the trade expression, apples and oranges?" "It's much worse than apples and oranges." "It might be peaches and asparagus that you're comparing." "I'm surely amazed that a competent forensic scientist" "Would have made that kind of comparison." "Seattle police reports indicate" "That Kurt Cobain was found with a shotgun upside down," "With his left hand grasping the barrel" "In a vise-like grip, known as a cadaveric spasm." "Cadaveric spasm is a form of muscular stiffening" "That only occurs in death." "This occurrence is indispensable to forensic investigation," "As it clearly shows the precise orientation of the deceased" "At the exact moment of death;" "In this case, Cobain's left hand" "Gripping the barrel upside down, as he was found." "This all seemed straightforward, until you take into account" "The shotgun shell was found to Cobain's left side," "Opposite of where we'd expect to find the shell:" "On Cobain's right side." "The exit chamber is clearly on Cobain's right side" "If it was fired upside down, as it was found," "And as the cadaveric spasm confirms" "Seattle P.D. explained the illogical trajectory" "Of the shotgun shell by concluding that the shotgun" "Was fired right side up by Cobain," "The shotgun flipped upside down, expelling the shell" "To his left, to finally rest in the position" "That it was found." "This proposed scenario is impossible, not only" "Because shotguns do not flip upside down when fired;" "It completely ignores the cadaveric spasm" "That locks the grip, dictating the precise orientation" "Of the shotgun when fired." "In order for the scenario the Seattle police stated occurred" "Cobain's wrist would have to bend at an angle" "That is anatomically impossible." "The cadaveric spasm shows the precise orientation" "Of Cobain's hand at the exact moment of death." "The only way that the shell could end up in the opposite" "Side of the room is if, when the shell was expelled," "Hit an obstruction on Cobain's right side" "And ricocheted to Cobain's left side, to land on the jacket." "The crime scene clearly shows there was no such obstruction," "Which then puts into question if Cobain truly was alone" "In the Greenhouse when the trigger was pulled." "Kurt was not suicidal." "Have you been watchin' TV?" "Readin' the paper?" "They're all saying that he's been suicidal" "For a long time, and Courtney said that this overdose," "The one that was in Rome, she said" "That was a suicide attempt." "That's not true." "It was Rosemary Carroll's involvement" "That really pushed me forward, because if somebody" "In Rosemary Carroll's position was telling me" "The things she was telling me," "Then I wasn't off base, I wasn't crazy," "I wasn't a lunatic." "She called me a couple of weeks ago," "Said Kurt was leaving her and asked me to find the meanest," "Most vicious divorce lawyer I could find." "She even asked me if there was any way" "To avoid their prenup." "And she said about that same time," "Kurt had called her also and asked her if she could" "Have Courtney's name taken outta the will." "Does it seem strange that Courtney didn't go" "Up to Seattle, not even once, to look for him?" "Absolutely." "When I offered to go up, she said she couldn't go" "With me because she had some business down here in L.A." "She didn't have any business in L.A." "What I don't understand is how you didn't see him" "In the Greenhouse the first night you were there." "Wait a minute, I didn't even know the Greenhouse" "Existed until the day I heard it on the radio." "But Courtney told Dylan to check it." "When he called Courtney at my house Wednesday night," "I heard her tell him to check the Greenhouse." "A lotta people mock him for being at the house," "On the case, looking for Kurt." "Kurt was lying dead 20 feet away and he never found him." "What does that say about his abilities as a P.I?" "I went back on a rainy night." "He claims it was dark and just didn't know it was there." "Nobody told him, Dylan certainly didn't tell him." "Dylan must have known that it was there." "Is there anywhere else?" "No." "So I went and tested that, and sure enough," "You really couldn't see it if you weren't looking" "For it specifically." "I asked Courtney to see the note when I was in Seattle," "And she refused." "Courtney apparently had let Danny Goldberg," "Her husband, see the note, but she wouldn't let" "Rosemary see it, so that mystified her too" "And made her more suspicious." "And it made me more suspicious, too." "To hear Courtney's own lawyer," "Kurt and Courtney's entertainment lawyer, Rosemary Carroll," "The godmother of Frances Bean," "Somebody that knew them better than almost anybody," "Telling Tom that" "They were in the middle of a divorce," "That Kurt was drawing up a new will," "And most importantly, I think the tape" "That really had me reeling," "Was hearing Rosemary Carroll looking at the suicide note" "And immediately concluding that it's a forgery." "I believe Courtney never thought the public was gonna" "Ever see that note." "If I hadn't have tricked her out of a copy of the note," "They wouldn't have seen it." "I heard you read the note on TV the other day" "And I'm just a little confused about something." "It sounded like the note said, "I'm lying on the bed."" "If Kurt was lying in the bed when he wrote the note," "Why was the bed so neat when I came here the other night?" "It looked like nobody had been on the bed." "I was lying on the bed, recording the message" "For Kurt's fans." "Are you sure that's what you said?" "Because I was under the impression that Kurt was lying" "On the bed." "Look, I'll show you, okay?" "It's just a copy, but the cops have the original." "I can't read this without my glasses." "I'm gonna take it down, make a copy in the fax machine." "I'll read it later." "Yeah, sure." "That I never thought to look at at all," "Quite honestly, until last night." "She left it after she came over to my house," "The night of the 6th." "Rosemary Carroll was working with me behind the scenes," "Privately, giving me information." "She did it out of a good conscience." "What do you think that is?" "conference on your phone," "And that way you could..." "You've promised me things before," "And it didn't come through." "Almost immediately after Kurt Cobain's death" "Was announced in the media, this phenomenon" "Of copycat suicides began." "Kids started killing themselves:" "Kurt Cobain fans, Nirvana fans." "This was happening all around the world." "Now I'm a dad myself, and it's just," "Absolutely breaks my heart." "I talk to a lotta the families." "When you read their suicide notes and read their journals," "It really drove home the importance" "Of Kurt on this generation." "The thought of losing a child is just horrific." "I was relieved that I was gonna go forward with this," "Because I thought, "Maybe it'll help stop"" ""Some of these copycat suicides."" "That would help too, to be analyzed." "We could determine whether Kurt wrote that whole thing." "The fact that the handwriting looks," "To my untrained eye, different at the bottom" "Of that note than it does during the body" "It certainly does suggest that putting that note" "In the hands of a questioned documents examiner," "Somebody who really understands a lot more than we do" "As cops, that would be a good idea." "A forensic document examiner examines documents" "For the purposes of authenticity." "I examined a handwriting sample that was found" "In Courtney Love's backpack, and it was a practice sheet" "Of different letters, the alphabet." "I examined that in comparison to the suicide note." "What I did find interesting about the practice sheet is" "That it did have letter combinations and specific letters" "That are found in the bottom portion of the suicide note." "It is possible that somebody else with some skill" "Could indeed imitate his writing," "Especially those last few lines." "One of the, perhaps surprising, characteristics" "Of this note is that the largest section of the note," "Or the initial part, talks so much about his relationship" "To music, and it's only the very small part of the note," "The last four lines, that talks about his relationship" "To his family." "But there's another linguistically interesting thing" "About the second or final four lines of the note," "And that is that that is what most of us would consider" "A stereotypical suicide note." ""I love you, someone will be better off without me,"" ""Keep moving forward."" "Those are the kinds of things we expect to find" "In suicide notes, or even in overkill," "To make it very stereotypical so that people couldn't miss" "What it was." "There are a lotta questions I have for Dylan and Cali," "Especially Cali, who spent more time here at the house" "Than anybody last week." "Cali is, he just left for rehab." "He's in El Paso, or" "Georgia, I think." "No no no, he's in L.A. with friends." "I'll get Dylan over here." "After probably a half an hour or so, I walked out" "And I asked, "Is Dylan here yet?"" ""I haven't seen him," and I just assumed that somebody" "Would let me know when he showed up." "They said, "Yeah, he's upstairs with Courtney,"" "Which I thought was strange." "He was supposed to be coming in the house to talk" "To me, not go upstairs and do a pre-interview with Courtney." "So there's just been a couple things that have been" "Eating at me in the last few weeks, and I wanted to sit here" "And I wanted to talk to you about them." "Did you just shoot up?" "Hm?" "Did you just shoot up?" "Yeah." "What?" "Yes." "Why did you do that?" "I told you I was coming up here, I told you we had" "To have this conversation." "Dylan." "Hm?" "I told you we had to have this conversation." "I'm ready." "You're ready?" " Mm hmm." " You're not ready." "I felt, "Why would Courtney do this?"" "She knew I had some serious questions to ask him," "And she's sending him down to me in a drugged state" "Of mind, where he could hardly talk?" "You check the front door or the back?" "Did you check the front door or the back door?" "Yeah." "Which door?" "Both." "Both doors." "Did you check the side door?" "No." "You didn't go to the side door?" "I don't remember." "You don't remember." "Did you go to the Greenhouse?" "No." "You didn't go to the Greenhouse?" "Dylan, Dylan, I wanna talk about..." "I wanna talk about the Greenhouse." "Dylan." "Dylan was a heroin addict," "And he needed a source for heroin." "Once Kurt Cobain was dead, his source became Courtney Love." "His loyalty became Courtney Love." "He was very dependent on her." "We've since learned that she paid his rent" "For many, many years, supplied the money" "For his heroin, and almost everybody around Kurt." "They were dependent on Courtney," "They were dependent on Courtney's money." "It's a waste of time, waste of time." "I felt it was my duty to notify my client" "That I was starting to dig into some directions" "That she may not want me to be looking into," "But I was determined to do it and I thought" "That she deserved to know that I was going to do this." "She got the message, I'm sure, from that." "I was insinuating that I suspected her" "Of being involved in this." "A few days after that letter was sent," "I got a phone call from Courtney." "She wasn't livid, she wasn't even angry." "She didn't mention the letter, in fact." "I basically said I'm going to continue with my investigation" "With or without your cooperation." "Here's all you have to do to bring this" "To a quick end and solve all of your problems." "Yes, hi, I'm looking for Kurt." "Hello?" "Hello?" "Yes, hi." "Someone's gonna get really fucked up over there" "If I don't talk to Kurt." "Hi, this is Julie Bernstein." "I really need to speak to my client Kurt." "Get him on the fucking phone!" "Yes, yeah, thank you." "No, no problem." "Yeah, Delta's fine." "with the 20th anniversary approaching," "Detective Mike Ciesynski re-examined the case files" "Of an assignment early in his fledgling career," "The investigation into the death of Kurt Cobain." "You can never really realize what type" "Of conspiracy theorists are gonna come out" "Of the woodwork." "The amount of heroin that he injected was 10 times" "What, normally, anybody would've taken," "Even a heavy heroin user." "I believe he gave himself a fatal dose of black tar heroin." "Detective Mike Ciesynski found four rolls" "Of undeveloped crime scene photos." "Two of those photos were released," "Taken the day his body was found." "In hindsight, I think I would've developed the film." "Did you find anything different" "That made you believe it's anything but suicide?" "No, nothing." "What are people gonna gain from seeing pictures" "Of Kurt Cobain?" "How is that gonna benefit anybody?" "It wasn't gonna change my decision that this was a suicide," "And actually I'm the one who makes the decision finally," "Do we go forward or not." "There is never one item that I said definitely" "That this actually was suicide, but um..." "Any re-examination should not even be actively" "Participated in by the Seattle Police Department." "To expect them to conduct an objective, detached," "Unbiased investigation, come back 20 years later" "And say, "Hey man, we blew it?"" "It flies in the face of common sense." "The Kurt Cobain death demands a re-opening" "By an objective set of experts, and until that is done," "Then one cannot feel comfortable in saying" "That Kurt Cobain's death was a clear-cut suicide." "For me, the most compelling piece of evidence" "That convinces me, almost to a certainty," "That Kurt was murdered, was the level of heroin in his body." "There's never been a documented case in the history" "Of law enforcement where somebody could have" "The level of heroin in their body that Kurt did," "Still remain conscious, and still led to a suicide." "We talked to an FBI expert, and he said," ""If you wanna get away with murder,"" ""You kill a junkie."" "It's very easy to make a murder look" "Look like an accidental overdose or a suicide." "It's the perfect crime, and it happens all the time." "We know that Kurt and Courtney had a prenuptial agreement." "They were in the process of getting a divorce." "This was confirmed, they were divorcing." "He was leaving her." "If the divorce had gone through," "She would've received a very small settlement" "As a result of the prenuptial agreement." "When he died, she co-inherited an estate worth" "Possibly more than a billion dollars in future royalties." "Police immediately look at motive." "Here's the motive." "No matter what anybody believes, this happened" "Far too quickly for the kinds of things to be accomplished" "That need to be done in this kind of death investigation." "We should, in fact, have taken steps to study patterns" "Involved in the behavior of key individuals who had a motive" "To see Kurt Cobain dead." "This would be in fact, a classical example for how" "An investigation should not be done." "If, in fact, Kurt Cobain was murdered, as opposed" "To having committed suicide, and it was possible" "To learn that, shame on us for not doing that." "That was, in fact, our responsibility." "Should the case be re-opened?" "My answer is unequivocally, unhesitatingly," ""Yes, the case should be re-opened."" "It's about right and wrong." "It's about honor, it's about ethics." "If we didn't get it right the first time," "We damn well better get it right the second time." "And I would tell you right now that if I were the" "Chief today, I would re-open this investigation."