"Emergency." "Please help me." "Well, slow down." "Slow down." "We were all shot in a holdup." "Okay, where are you at?" "1201 East Amador, Las Cruces Bowl." " Las Cruces Bowl?" " Yes." "Okay, and there were shots fired?" "Yes, all of us were hurt." "All of us were hurt." "I think I'm the only one conscious." "You were hurt?" "Okay, we'll get an ambulance rolling." " Please." " Okay, what's your name?" "Melissia Repass." "Please hurry." "Okay, Melissia, we've got them dispatched." "Did you see who did it?" "No, sir." "They told us all to get down." "They shot me five times." "Okay, we'll get them rolling, Melissia." "Just hang on." "Take a deep breath." "We've got patrol units in route." "How many people are hurt?" "One, two, three, four, five, six, seven." "Seven people are hurt?" " Yes, I think." "I don't" " Seven subjects hurt." " Okay, okay, Melissia." " Please, hurry." "It hurts." "It hurts?" "Okay." "Melissia, I've got an ambulance, and I've got the police officers in route." "They'll be with you just shortly." " Okay." " Okay?" "You didn't see what any of the men were wearing?" "No, they just took all of our money." "You didn't see what any kind of the men were wearing or anything?" "No." "Nothing, they just walked in?" "Do you if they were black men, white men" "It was black men." "They were both black." " Two black men?" " Yeah." "Okay." "No, they've left." "Thank you." "Two black male." "Please hurry." "Okay, okay." "It's okay, Melissia." "There's a fire, too." " There's a fire?" " Right on the desk." "They're going to burn us up." "Are the men still there?" "I don't know." " You don't know?" " I don't know." "They put us in the office." "They put you in the office?" "Yes, I need a fire engine, too." "Please help me." "Thank you." "Okay, Melissia." "She said they locked them in the office." "She doesn't know if they're still there or not." "The door's open." "There's a fire." "They tore down the door, yeah." "Please help." "Can you smell smoke, Melissia?" "Yes, I can see it." " Okay." " Can I get the fire extinguisher?" " The fire department, too?" " Yes." "She said she smells smoke." "They may have lit the building on fire." "No, it is on fire." " It is on fire." " It is." "Okay, Melissia." " Can I go get the" " Standby, Utility One." "Okay, Melissia, we've got them coming, honey." "We've got them coming." "Please hurry." "My mommy" "Okay, Melissia, there's a police officer there now, okay?" " There is?" " Yes, there is." "He's going to try and find you." "We're in the office." "Just tell him to go" "Standby on 33 traffic." "Oh, my God." "Okay." "They're dying..." "Hold on, Melissia." "We've got the ambulance coming." "They're just down the street." "She stood by, says all seven are shot." "They're injured." "They're in the office." "Where's the office at, Melissia?" "You go in the doors with the big desk, and then you take a right, and we're right in there." "Okay." "She says you go in." "At the first desk, take a right, and you're right there in the office." "Okay, I'm giving the directions on how to get to you, to the police officers that are there." "Oh, my God, please help me." "We're helping you, Melissia." "We've got them rolling." "Okay?" "You've got to be brave, gotta be strong now." " Okay?" " Oh, God." "It's going to burn us right now." " Okay, can you see flames?" " Well, yeah." " Okay." " It's burning" "Okay." "Oh, I got bullets in my finger." " Okay." " The bullet's in my head." "The bullet's in your head, too?" "Fire Department here!" "Come on!" "Come on!" "Come on!" "I can't!" "None of them are conscious!" "I'm still here." "Go ahead." "I hear the officers telling you to get out." " Get out." " I can't." "There's nobody to help." "Was that the police officer telling you to get out?" " Then get out." " Okay." "Okay?" "What I remember is I was going to school." "I had Saturday class." "I had left my backpack at work the night before." "As I pulled into the parking lot," "I saw two individuals walking through the east parking lot." "Walked in, got my backpack out of the office." "I saw my sister, my niece, my sister's boyfriend's daughter, and our cook Ida." "Yeah." "Yeah, I told my sister-- When I walked in," "I told her, "You need to keep the doors locked."" " Melissia." " Okay-- wait a minute." "Okay." "Stephanie, lock the doors, please." "I've got it." "This is after seeing the guys in the parking lot." "I told her" " I said, "You need to keep them locked."" "I told her that when I left, too." "I don't know if I had my keys with me that morning or not." "I knew she was going to be there because she gets there so early, to do the money, so I can't remember if I had my keys with me or not, but I'm thinking that I didn't" "because I told her to lock the door when I leave." " Yeah." " That's because they're easy." "If I would have stayed there, would they not have come in at all?" "I don't know." "I mean-- asking to help them?" "They could've told me they were just walking to the back of the property to go to a house." "I definitely-- correct." "This happened, absolutely." " Yeah, it's okay." " It's okay." "But I don't know if me confronting them and asking them if I could help them would've stopped anything." " Emergency." " Please help me." "Well, slow down." "Slow down." "We were all shot in a holdup." "Okay, where are you at?" "1201 East Amador, Las Cruces Bowl." " Las Cruces Bowl?" " Yes." "Okay, and there were shots fired?" "Yes, all of us were hurt." "All of us were hurt." "I think I'm the only one conscious." "You were hurt?" "Okay, we'll get an ambulance rolling." " Please." " Okay." "Did you see who did it?" "No, sir." "They told us all to get down." "They shot me five times." "Okay." "Hang on." "Take a deep breath." "We've got patrol units in route." "How many people are hurt?" "One, two, three, four, five, six, seven." "The police department received the call reporting a fire and people hurt at the Las Cruces Bowl." "Officers responded, fire department personnel responded, and paramedics responded." "Once they entered the Las Cruces Bowl, they noticed that on the inside the office area, that's where there was smoke." "They were able to observe, in that particular office, at least seven bodies." "The bodies were "drug" out from the office." "Three people were left at the scene." "Deceased" " Steve Teran, T-U-R-A-N, in his 30s..." "Paula Teran, age 7." "Amy Houser, age 13." "Victoria Teran was taken to Memorial General Hospital, where... apparently she was dead on arrival," "3-year-old." "So you have three members of one family." "We have three survivors... in their 30s and one 12, and I'm keeping that right now under wraps because of security purpose at the present time." "For a very long time, it had a chilling effect on this town." "People in Las Cruces started wondering," ""Are these kind of criminals," ""these kind of brutal murderers, wandering the streets, and we just didn't know it?"" "It's kind of shut down a lot of things people would be willing to let their kids go or do." "You'd be certainly way, way more cautious, and even-- it's even gotten more so as time has gone by." "It was... heartbreaking and devastating and all of our parents locked us up from that point because they couldn't trust that their kids were going to be safe going anywhere in town." "It was the numbers and hearing the stories from other people of what had taken place inside, realizing that these people that had actually been executed." "It affects you, as a person, for a lifetime." "it doesn't go away." "That pain doesn't go away." "There's always something inside of you that" "I mean, I was always scared to be alone for a very long time." "It was very hard for people to wrap their minds around the fact that there are people that will come in and shoot and kill children for money." "When a massacre happens that is quadruple what our murder rate is in this town for an entire year-- and that's on a bad year-- that shocks an entire town, and you wonder, Will we ever be the same?" "Okay, we'll get an ambulance rolling." " Please." " Okay, what's your name?" "Ken, I got a" "We've all been shot." "Help me." " Excuse me?" " What's your name?" "Melissia Repass." "Please hurry." "Okay, Melissia, we've got them dispatched." "We had learned about... calling 911 in school the week before, and I guess it was still fresh in my mind." "To do it, I think, if it wouldn't have been me, there would've been somebody else that was conscious." "I think they would've done the same thing." "It just happened to be me." "I used to work nights, but I changed the schedule because I wanted to go to bingos because my mom..." "Well, I changed the schedule for-- for me to have been there." "She had a fear, all of those years, that she-- that they might find her... the people that shot her, that they might find her." "Her whole attitude changed." "Medically, she was not able to do lots of things, and psychologically, I think... she just didn't know how to deal with it." "I had been gone all week, like I said, on another job, so certainly I had missed her, and I had asked her about, A-- What's-- "What did you do all week" "and how did things go at school?" and all that, so we had a-- we a pretty lively conversation, and I did tell her that I loved her when she left, so that was-- that meant a lot." "Actually, she told me she loved me too." "Learning to live without... any of your children, just the thought of it, is devastating, not knowing where they are, not knowing how they're doing, is devastating, but knowing that you have to go on through life" "from child that grew inside your body for the rest of your life here on earth has got to be the toughest damn thing anybody ever has to do." "Any parent who has to do it, it's got to be the toughest damn thing you'll ever have to do." "You're talking about a woman who loses her whole family in a blink of an eye." "One morning you're getting your kids ready, you're feeding them breakfast, you're cleaning them up." "The next minute you're burying them, you're buying them a casket." "I just fell into Anthony's arms and cried and... pretty much couldn't stop until" "until I saw my dad." "And when I saw my dad, that was, like, the first real sense of security." ""Why, me, Dad?" "Why?"" "I remember my first words to her is "Are you okay?"" ""They're gone." "They're gone."" "That's all she would tell me." ""They're gone."" ""I know, Audrey." "Don't worry, don't worry." ""You're going to be okay." "You're going to be okay." "We'll all get through this."" "And all she would say was," ""They're gone." "They're gone."" "We were all shot in a holdup." "Okay, where are you at?" "1201 East Amador, Las Cruces Bowl." "I went to work at 8:00." "The manager got there, Stephanie, and Melissia, her daughter, and Amy, their friend." "We were just going to hang out at the bowling alley, like we typically did, and we were hungry." "Ida was not ready in the kitchen, so my mom gave us some quarters to go to the vending machines." "And when we went back out of the office, into the entrance of the bowling center, there were two men with guns, and the older one told me and Amy to go back into the office, and the other one," "the younger one, went to the snack bar area and got Ida." "This man came around the corner and put a gun on my side, and he told me," ""This is a holdup." "Come with me."" "And then we started walking to the-- to the office" "Move it." "Then they got us all in the office." "They told us to get on the floor." "Down on the floor." "Down on the floor." "Where could it be?" "I don't know." "Where's the rest of the money?" "It's in there." "Mom, is everything going to be okay?" "Yes, sweetie, everything's going to be okay." "I heard some shuffling and some moving around, and then I heard something, and I kind of picked up my head and Steven Teran was coming in with his two little girls." "Get down." "Get down." "Get down!" "Get down now!" " Shoot me, not the girls." " Get down!" "I said get down and shut up!" "And they told them to get on the floor, which they did." "Then I heard a little bit more shuffling, and then I heard shots... a lot of shots." "I felt three." "Come on, kid, shut up!" "Shut up!" "Mama!" "Mama!" "I was the third one-- I mean, second one-- to get shot." "And I felt the gun" " He had the gun right on my head, right behind." "And I could feel it, and that's when I just-- I knew I was next." "I heard somebody." "It sounded like they were drowning in their own blood, and I didn't know who." "My" "My mom was all I had, and I didn't want her to-- to die." "I didn't know." "I could hear, but I couldn't really see, and I guess because the blood" "I mean, I couldn't see with the blood." "I could see red, and I could see all the blood coming down my eyes." "And when it was quiet," "I heard this gurgling sound, and my mom would not answer me." "And I slowly got up." "And there was a fire on the desk." "And I found the phone." "I called 911." "It was a very, very slow day in dispatch, to start with." "As I'm reading the paper, the phone rang, and it was just an automatic twist, and as soon as the phone came to my ear and I heard her, the paper went one direction, and I started screaming at everybody in Dispatch," "on this is what I need, and they all responded." "Okay, Melissia, there's a police officer there now, okay?" " There is?" " Yes, there is." "He's going to try and find you." "We're in the office." "I was somewhere near Telshor and Lohman... and got this call on the radio that there were shots fired at the bowling alley." "And at first there was a little bit of disbelief, but then hearing the dispatcher's voice and the intensity, knew that something really bad was happening." "I pulled up." "Another officer pulled up with me." "We decided we had to get inside the building, and about that time, our supervisor pulled up, and the three of us started to go in the building and immediately were" "We could smell the smoke." "We've got the dispatcher still telling us, you know," ""Get in there." "She needs your help."" "Turned the corner." "The desk was on fire." "She gave me this look of, "Thank God you're here."" "I'm still here." "Go ahead." "I hear the officers telling you to get out." " Get out." " I can't." "There's nobody to help." "Well, she-- she looked at me, and she told me," ""But he told me not to hang up."" "So she didn't want to let go of the telephone." "Was that the police officer" " telling you to get out?" " Yeah." " Then get out." " Okay." "Just wouldn't get off the phone." "I said, "No, he said I had to stay on the phone."" "Eventually they convinced me that I could put the phone down and go to them." "That's when I put the phone down, and I went to Bill." "Got her out to the car." "Another police officer took care of her for a couple of minutes." "Went back in, helped start moving other people that were in the room, out of the fire." "The fire got put out." "The only thing I saw when I got up was Valerie." "I was too scared to look around." "And what I saw haunts me to this day." "That she was shot in her forehead." "I really don't know." "I just know that when the ambulance got there and they said "What's your name?"" "And I could barely hear them, and I said, "Ida Holguin,"" "and I felt myself." ""I" " I'm alive."" "I said my name." "I heard myself." "And I felt them wheeling me out, and that was it." "After we got the majority of the victims out of the room and by that time the doctor had arrived, a physician, and they were trying to determine who was alive and who to take to the hospital," "with the resources that we had." "And... my supervisor grabbed hold of me and said," ""She's calling for you." "You have to get in the ambulance."" "So I did." "Apparently." "I was scared, and I didn't know about my mom." "And I felt that I could trust him." "Breathe." "No, not much taller." "Time changes when you're under a lot of pressure." "We had the pressure of trying to get answers to what had happened." "And we had the pressure of taking care of the victims and making sure they were okay." "Here's a" "Here's a little girl with her whole life ahead of her and her hands are bloody, and her head's bloody, and she's scared, and I was doing my best to comfort her... and let her know that she'll be okay now." "That's who saved our life." "To be 12 years old..." "My granddaughter right now is 12 years old." "Wow." "Here you have a 12-year-old girl." "She's got-- like I said, she's shot in the head, her fingers are dangling, she's got blood all over her, she's watching her mom on the floor, she doesn't know if her mom's alive or dead," "there's five other people in there that she doesn't know if they're alive or dead, and she has the wherewithal to get on the phone and call 911... first of all, and then to be able to provide the dispatcher" "with the quality information that she provided," "I mean, it's an amazing-- it's an amazing story." "The most emotional part, I think, is when I ask her how many people had been shot and she counted them out." "If she had of said, "Seven people shot,"" "I'd have probably been better, but she sat and counted" ""One, two, three,"" "all the way to seven." "That really hit me." "Nobody should lose their family this way, especially two little girls that had absolutely nothing to do with anybody except the fact that they were with their dad going to work." "I believe that it was the devil because that's the only person I can think that would ever do something to a little girl this big." "This big" " This was her body... right here." "And to be able to look her in the eyes, her big black eyes, and to do that to her, it has to be the devil." "There's no other way of explaining it." "He was looking right at her when he shot her." "He had to have been." "He had to have been looking right at her." "She must have been looking up at him for it to hit her right here and lodge right here and just shatter everything." "So he looked at her." "He looked at her." "And to be honest with you and" "I hope he sees her eyes every day." "I hope that that's what he remembers the first... when he wakes up in the morning." "I was probably just seconds or minutes away from seeing them... prob-- more than likely." "Yeah." "I could've walked in." "I could've been delayed." "I could've been a part of it." "Sure, that all plays into it." "That all plays into your agony." "I could've done something about it, could've lost my life trying to do something about it, could've been rounded up right along with the rest of them." "Oh, yeah, believe me." "That thought's always back there." "I can't comprehend anybody that was there that day, being shot." "If you're going to go in to rob a business, you go in and rob the business." "Put a mask on your face and leave." "Shooting people the way that these people were shot... and not even taking all the money that was there-- it doesn't make any sense." "Do you if they were black men, white men" "I saw black men." "They were both black." " Two black men?" " Yeah." "Okay." "I got notified by off-duty New Mexico State University police officer and asked me," ""Did you hear what happened at the bowling alley?" "You know, I really didn't know what was going on." "I got a call in the morning, saying they were calling all the officers that were off duty, in early." "I was contacted by phone, advised that there had been a shooting at the Las Cruces Bowling Alley." "Upon my arrival, fire department was there, the ambulance was there, and numerous patrolmen were already on scene." "As soon as I heard that call," "I must've been maybe five or six blocks away." "I headed down to the bowling alley." "When I got to the scene," "I was advised that some of the victims had been transported to the hospital and that some were deceased and still inside." "Primarily, when I first arrived," "I started to canvas the area." "Our captain, at the time, had kind of briefed me about what was going on." "Of course, he was assigning different assignments for all the investigators, and at that particular time he wanted me to go and canvas the neighborhood to see what anybody may have seen or heard." "My assignment that particular day was, they had brought in two helicopters, so I was one of the officers assigned to go up in the helicopter and just kind of fly over the city and the county, and, matter of fact," "we went all the way down to El Paso just looking for anything out of the ordinary." "We started to set up a coordinated effort of getting all the exits from the city of Las Cruces shut down at road blocks and trying to determine what we had and what had occurred." "Around 9:00 they got a call from the border patrol section down along I-10 between Deming and here, and they had pulled over four subjects in a car, and there was some $12,000 in cash found." "So since they knew there was a large sum of money that had been stolen, with two suspects, they got a hold of the one witness, which was one of the sons of the owner." "They had checkpoints out there, and they had a car stopped, and they took me over there, but none of the guys were any of the guys that I saw." "And I don't know if they had any money on them or not." "Yeah, yeah, when they said, "We have a road block set up." "We stopped a car." ""We got some guys that might be involved in this." "We need you to come down and take a look"" "because obviously I was the only one able to identify anyone at the time, so-- no, none of them were them." "Yeah." "I didn't walk towards the car." "They kept me in a police vehicle, and I just looked through the window." "I didn't get out." "They just had them lined up against the vehicle, and, no, there wasn't any of the guys that did this." "I was the baker manager at Solo Warehouse, and the cake decorator's sister called the bakery and asked to speak to Liz." "I was in class, and we heard the sirens-- heard the sirens and everything, and when we took a break," "I called the bowling alley, and nobody answered." "Liz came up to me and she said," ""My sister called, and there's something bad happened at the bowling alley."" "When lunchtime came, me and a friend of mine, Lisa Belcher, we went for lunch, and we cut the tail end of a news report on the radio that said that seven had been shot, four were dead." "We couldn't dial out of the phone in the bakery, so I ran to the office, and I called, and there was no answer, so I ran back, and I was trembling, and she said, "I'll take you." "I'll take you."" "When I went back into the-- to school," "I was nervous because I hadn't heard from Steven, and so I called the bowling alley, and again no answer." "I told Lisa, "You know what?" "Let's go." "Let's go see what's going on,"" "when another student came in and said," ""Hey, did you guys hear there's been a robbery at the bowling alley?"" "And we took off right after that." "I went in, and I immediately noticed the bodies laying there" "Paula Holguin and Steve Teran and Amy Houser." "When I walked in, I saw a little girl on the floor, and when I saw her," "I knew that she was shot." "And I just thought it was a mock scene." "I just couldn't believe that it was actual." "And I saw several other bodies, and we knew that they were dead." "I proceeded to the right, as you enter into the bowling alley, towards what was advised to me to be the crime scene." "It was a complete mess, to put it bluntly." "The crime scene had been basically destroyed because of the fire." "The fire department entered." "We immediately realized that this was just a bit too much for us to do the crime scene, so at that point, our captain had requested the Stickley's Crime Lab to come down." "This was the most... traumatic and horrific case that I ever handled." "She takes me to the bowling alley, and it's all roped off in yellow." "I got out of the car" "I lifted the rope, and she drove in." "Detectives came out and asked what we were doing there, and I said, "My daughter's in there,"" "and Randy Lonsway was a detective then, and we went to school together, and he says, "Gloria, go to the hospital." "Go to the hospital."" "I pulled into the parking lot, and I was stopped right away, and they asked me, you know," ""Ma'am, you cannot go." "You are not supposed to come through the line," you know, and, "What did you need?"" "I told them that Steven was my husband and that he was the mechanic that morning, and he has my girls,"" "said, "He's got my girls with him."" "Um, they said," ""What stage are your girls?"" "I said, "Paula's 6, and Valerie's 2 1/2,"" "and he asked me, "Well, what were they doing with him?"" "And I said, "I didn't have a babysitter, so we had permission to take them into the nursery."" "At that point he said," ""I need to get someone to talk to you." "Please wait here."" "A detective came, and they sat me back in the car." "He put the seatbelt on me and" "and told me that Steven had been shot and that he passed away, and I asked him, "Well, where was he shot?"" "Because, I mean, I figured, him being a first lieutenant in the Army, that he would've put up a fight." "Um, then they said that he was shot-- shot in the head." "And I said, "My girls-- where are my girls?"" "When they told me Steven was dead, my first reaction was that they wouldn't kill children." "You know, they would've have shot them, and I could just picture them on their way to Juárez." "if not already in Juárez, and I just-- "Can I have my girls, please?" "Let me see the girls."" "The detective said that Paula had been shot and that she pretty much had passed away there on the scene." "Um, "Okay, Valerie?"" "He said, "Ma'am, you're going to have to go to the hospital."" "So I thought, you know, at least one of them's alive." "When I was shown into the room where the baby was on a hospital bed in the emergency room, the baby was covered with a blanket, and all I observed was a gunshot wound to the forehead, and that's when the nurse informed me" "that there was other people had been brought in." "I didn't know if they were going to survive or not and that there were other gunshot victims at the bowling alley that were dead." "When we first walked in, it was still pretty chaotic." "We more or less took photographs of that scene to document everything, and I approached each one to pronounce and give official time of death." "I remember seeing Amy Houser laying face down." "One of the detectives, he squatted down beside Amy's body, and they rolled her body over, and it was like somebody had just pushed him back, and he kind of fell back a little bit." "He said, "I need a minute,"" "and he paced back and forth." "I found out, when we had our counseling service, he did say that when he turned her over, he had a daughter of that age, and he saw his daughter's face." "The minute we left that parking lot," "I pleaded with God to please let her be okay, please let her be okay." "And I got to the hospital." "They wouldn't let Liz go." "They put me in this room, and they wouldn't let Liz go in there with me." "The whole way there, all I could do was... pray." "I must've said the Hail Mary probably 20 times on the way." "I got there, and was greeted by one of our local priests here in Las Cruces, and, "Oh, my God, this isn't looking good."" "You know, here's-- here's a priest, and he's greeting me, and they sat me down in a room with a social worker, and I-- "How bad is it?"" ""Where did they shoot her?"" "Detective Kay Martinez-- she came up, and she told me." "She said, "What's your name?" And I told her, "Gloria."" "She said, "Is Amy your daughter?"" "I said, "Yes, please take me to her." "Please take me to her,"" "and she said she couldn't, and I said, "Why?"" "Then she told me that she was dead, and I said, "No, you're lying." "You're lying."" "And I kept hitting her shoulders, and she said..." ""I wish I was lying."" "I said, "What's the matter?" "What happened?"" "And I thought about my husband because he was working at the house, and I said, "Probably he got injured, and they're coming to tell me,"" "and then Jeremy looked at Joe, and Joe looked at Jeremy, and they didn't say anything." "Finally said" " Jeremy said," ""Joe, tell Mama what happened,"" "and he said..." ""Amy" " They killed Amy,"" "and I said, "Oh, God, they killed my baby."" "He said, "Yeah." "At the bowling alley, they killed..."" "Then I started screaming, and I went screaming through the kitchen, and I had to go tell the priest." "I said, "I'm leaving." ""My granddaughter is" "They killed her at the bowling alley."" "The priest... knelt in front of me, and he said, "Ma'am, Valerie lived for 45 minutes."" ""She died here with us," ""here in the hospital," ""and had she lived," ""she would've been a quadriplegic." "And it might be for the best that God took her."" "I asked..." ""Did she die on the table, or was somebody holding her?" ""Were they working on her?" "How bad was she?"" "The social worker said that somebody had picked her up and put her in her arms and just let her go." "She took her last breath and cuddled up into the nurse's breast, and "Mama."" "Her last breath was to say "Mama."" "That was it." "Two women and a 12-year-old girl remain in critical condition at Las Cruces Memorial General Hospital." "You're not going to get it from me right now, or anybody like that because we respect life." "We saw the gruesome scene." "This is not a circus, or it's not a carnival, and those people right now, they are scared to death." "We're trying to make them feel better, to get-- you know, feel better, and when you feel better, you get well a lot sooner." "For us, as police officers, we were like, "Oh, my Gosh," ""this scene is just going to be terrible to analyze and to sort through"" "because it just seemed like such a large building and so many possibilities for evidence." "The different variations of the stories, depending on who we spoke with, made it really difficult to pinpoint on one specific area." "They had first said that it was two black men." "Later on other detectives were with the victims at the hospital, and we were getting different versions that," ""No, it wasn't black men." "They were just very dark." "Maybe they were Hispanic."" "These subjects fled on foot and then disappeared in a very short period of time, so there could have possibly been a vehicle." "What are the possibilities that a national crime like this-- call 911 report for a television show?" " What are the possibilities" " Such as Unsolved Mysteries?" "Yeah, something like that." "The possibilities of those persons becoming involved in this would really depend on how this investigation goes in the next few weeks." "The fire department was assisting us in placing ladders to check to make sure that there was-- there were no suspects on the roof and/or that they didn't throw something on the roof, possibly weapons." "I don't recall his name right off hand, but he was supposedly a witness to what he had described as the young shooter as he was running down the alleyway, running west of the bowling alley in between the two major streets." "He stated that he saw the-- what he described as the young shooter, and it looked like he had a gun that he was placing inside of his shirt." "The information that there was an individual on the roof, that they had seen the individuals," "I think was proved to be false." "Our captain at the time had wanted me to do a computer-generated composite speaking to one of the witnesses to the event, and so I did that." "In fact, there was Steve Senac." "I remember talking to a sketch artist from" " I believe she was from Houston or Dallas-- but basically it was pretty much dead on the renderings that Melissia and Stephanie described." "And when I described-- when she showed me the pictures, sent a chill up my spine because it was the two guys that I saw." "The first ones were, like you said, computer generated, and the second was done freehand by a sketch artist, and I noticed a big similarity, but she could get the nuances of the facial features that we were describing," "where the computer couldn't do that." "Probably hundreds of these were coming in monthly, lots of them daily." "I remember, we'd go into our briefings in the mornings-- at 7:" "OO in the morning, and you were assigned to another detective, and you and him who had the stack of leads, and off you went whether you went to El Paso, to Deming, to Alamogordo," "Lordsburg, Albuquerque, whatever." "Genno Tafoya, Homer Jackson, and myself became the major investigators in this case, and we are the ones that were responsible for making certain that all of the leads were organized and that we were following up each lead." "We started trying to puts the case together." "Okay, was it a robbery?" "And if it was a robbery, why not wear a mask and why kill the babies?" "You don't go in at 8:30 in the morning to rob a bowling alley that, at the time, was in the middle of an open parking lot." "You had to have cased the place to know that they were making deposits in the morning, you know, did they even do that?" "They left money in the safe." "Money didn't seem to be the priority when they walked in, so it doesn't-- to me it doesn't seem random." "I highly believed at the time that these were professional hit men." "I could not believe that any of our local criminals would kill a child-- see a child straight in the face and shoot her." "During 1990 there was a Cuban community that was in our area." "They were involved in a lot of drug activity, and we had been watching them." "In particular, there was a residence on Kansas where a lot of them were living, and, as you may already know," "Kansas is just south of the bowling alley, like two streets away." "Okay, maybe it wasn't a robbery." "Maybe this was a retaliation because of one of the individuals in the bowling alley." "If it was, then was this an organized-crime type of a hit, which everything points to that." "A few days after the shootings, the bowling alley owner, Ron Senac, answered questions about the tragedy." "He talked about police theories." "One is it's Joe-Blow robbery." "One is it's a..." "What did you refer to it as?" "A planned attack, if you will." "Okay, and those are the two things." "The Joe-Blow robbery I can live with, but the planned attacks scares the hell out of me." "I think it was a setup." "Something-- either assigned it, or these guys were looking for something or somebody." "When they first got there, they weren't looking for money." "They do feel that there was a link there, that they were there for something other than to just rob the bowling alley or to just shoot people randomly." "That's totally made up by the local people and the press." "The first thing the police told me, they looked at the people when something like this happens, and the first person they looked at was me because I was the owner." "What did Las Cruces think about Ronald Senac's involvement?" "No one's exactly sure." "A lot of people feel somehow cocaine and cocaine selling and cocaine funding was involved in it." "He was living in the bowling alley at the time." "It's kind of coincidental that this would happen." "My brother had always told me that he had weird neighbors and friends that would always come visit him, told me that he spent his money foolishly, that there was a few times that he'd be complaining that he lost so much money," "but he never was, as far as my brother knew, invested into the business." "None whatsoever." "None whatsoever." "The police informed me that two gunmen came up out of Mexico and came into Las Cruces and had been there a few days and that they had done this before." "They would go to mostly convenient stores." "In fact there was a Shell station on the west side of Las Cruces, that was hit by gunmen, and the guy was shot, the money was taken, set on fire." "And they had done it in Texas somewhere." "And they described them as being a 23-year-old Puerto Rican and a 50-year-old Iranian, and they just wanted money, and they would go to places and hit them for the money-- the cash that was on hand." "And the police referred to them as shooters because they shot little babies, for God's sake." "Totally and completely, and the police did, too." "The police told me that these two people did this several times." "...or they thought it was a random act." "I did not tell him that." "We really wouldn't have made that statement because we didn't know." "We didn't know if it was a random act, and there was too many different circumstances about that case that made us believe that perhaps it was something else." "I'd left town Friday to go see a friend of mine who I flew with, and he was shot down in Vietnam, and I'd go see him and play golf." "He drives a cart." "His name-- my children referred to him as El Cabures, and I was at his home, and that's where I played golf all day because he was sick." "He had diarrhea, and I came home at dark because I played from the sunup to sunset, and he informed me what happened, and we got in the car, and I got a speeding ticket in Bisbee, Arizona," "and the police wouldn't believe me, that I was hurrying because my daughter was in intensive care-- my granddaughter was in intensive care." "I'd been caddying for a friend of mine since 1985, and the only time ever left the bowling alley was to go caddy for him or go play golf or do something" "Golf was my game and my passion." "The bowling alley was my business." "And, obviously, I didn't spend much time with the bowlers." "That seemed to upset them." "He was one of those guys who loved to talk about sports, loved to talk about golfing, those kind of things, and I'm actually not that big of a sports fan, but, you know, I'd sit there and talk with him," "and he was one of those guys that everything's cool, you know what I mean?" "And he walks in and, "Oh, you know things are going to liven up a little bit,"" "and within half an hour, he's insulted pretty much everyone who's sitting at the bar, including the people who are working there, and these sort of undertone sort of insults where he's one of those guys," "when they leave, you're glad they did." "This guy's name is Charlie, that's doing this documentary." "Charlie, it's interesting." "This happened on a Saturday, and we have a church league on Monday night, and the church people, about 150 of them because 32 lanes, they were beating on the door to get in on Monday night" "because they wanted the place open so they could bowl in their church league." "We hadn't even buried the people yet." "And then we buried them on Wednesday, and-- and, Charlie, if you did your homework, you'd find out that I had 17 news medias there with cameras and did an interview." "on the Thursday after we buried everybody." "Well, I lived in my bowling alley because I had sold my house." "I lived on the golf course at Picacho Hills, and I sold my home, and my friend gave me a room at the hotel, to stay in till I get back." "I couldn't get back in the bowling alley till Thursday, as I recall." "Maybe it was Wednesday." "And I had to change the carpet and different things." "I went to police headquarters every day to find out what they knew, if they had found anything new." "We did confirm that he was in Arizona." "We did check with someone there that he told us he was with, and we did confirm that he was in Arizona." "That's incorrect." "He was not visiting the police department." "If he would've had any contact, he would've had contact with myself, Genno, or Homer, and he did not have any contact." "In fact, we would try and contact him." "Yes." "I wasn't uncooperative." "I was really upset that he was looking at me." "I've flown 383 missions in Vietnam." "I spent 20 years in the Air Force." "President of the United States said I was an officer and a gentleman." "I lived my life that way." "I was totally upset with him or anybody who questioned my integrity and who questioned my motives or my business dealings." "Well, I don't know the polygraph Homer's talking about." "Homer came to see me when I was working as an assistant golf pro for $4.25 an hour in New Orleans and brought some pictures right before he retired," "Think the year was '92." "But I didn't take one, I didn't take two," "I took three polygraph tests." "And you're supposed to answer yes and no, and on the third one the last answer was" "I think that their first question was, Charlie, was I involved with the Mob?" "Or whatever, whatever, and I can recall vividly." "I didn't answer just "No." I answered "Hell no."" "Why would somebody be delivering some kind of message to my family?" "There's" "Nobody's ever been able to produce anything that would indicate that that was a reason for this happening." "I'm angered and offended that every time this comes up, somebody tries to point the finger at my family to have something to do with this, that we were the cause that these two people showed up and shot seven people." "It looks like retribution." "It looks like there's a reason those men shot those people." "I don't think it was just robbery." "No." "I had read open sources that they had cased the bowling alley prior." "There were a number of people who said," ""Yes, we saw them Friday night in the bowling alley."" "One of them had even tried to come on to Stephanie." "And, of course, if it's random, they could've cased the bowling alley as well, but I don't think it was random." "It's just a personal feeling." "I can't prove it." "RJ was employed in the" "Jose Murphy's, the bar part of the bowling alley, and we found out that he was working there most of the nights that the bowling alley was open." "Several people mentioned to us that he had a cocaine addiction." "We were never able to confirm it, but, yeah, certain people did come to us that he had been a cocaine addict and that a lot of his transactions were done at the bowling alley." "When we interviewed him, he..." "Even though he gave a statement, he never gave anything more." "He was very distant, very-- almost... semi-autistic in his responses to us, just a really blank face and never-- never gave more than what we asked." "We've to pursue interrogating him, and just didn't say very much at all." "We received a lead that there was an older male that had been living in El Paso." "He was living in a little apartment behind a residence, and what was interesting about this is that we had had profile done on the case, and the profile said it's going to be an older and a younger man." "The older man is in control of the situation." "He's either a father or an uncle, so this lead was pretty good because it was a guy that was living there with his son, and they matched the composites, and he said that they were both kind of loners," "and shortly after the bowling alley, they had disappeared." "The guy had moved to Florida, and his son had gone back to San Diego, California, so we began investigating." "Everything looked good." "We went all the way to Florida to track him down, to only find out that he had passed away months before the bowling alley had actually occurred." "We received information from one of the local bars that a female individual had made a comment in the bar, that being the Welcome Inn, that these shooters had stayed with her." "Detective Maese had received information through a confidential informant that this female had possible information about the murders." "Detectives proceeded to the Welcome Inn and later determined that this individual was identified as Irma." "Rose and I contacted her, and at the time when we contacted her, she was-- it appeared that she may have been high on some kind of narcotic." "She stated that had harbored the individuals and that they could hear the hovering of the helicopters over her house and that she had-- that they had said," ""Hey, we're right under their noses and they don't even know it."" "That one time she stated, it was for narcotics, that they knew there was a large stash of narcotics there." "At that particular point in time, the information that she gave us was something that only the shooters would know." "However, we were kind of reluctant at that point in time, to take a lot of credence in it because she was what we thought-- she was high." "She was then set up with a polygraph from Albuquerque" "I can't remember the individual-- and if I remember correctly, she passed that polygraph." "There was a time when she cleaned up." "I visited with her personally, and she said that she had lied, she had made it up, she had just merely boasted so that she could appear as-- as a heavy in the community, and if she ever needed dope, that they would sell it to her." "We then proceeded to pursue all other avenues, but we still kept that information open, and it never developed into anything." "That was the only time that she recanted." "Throughout the different interviews and encounters that we had with Irma, she never ever changed her story that she had harbored them." "He was the commander in chief at the Alamogordo National Guard, at the time of his death." "He had gone to New Mexico Military Institute, was a graduate from there, and I think it was in his nature, and it was what he wanted to be, a police officer." "He might even be the sheriff or the chief by now, the way he was." "I remember being really young and seeing him and thinking," ""God, you know, he's hard."" "He would tell me, "Stand up straight." "Sit down right."" "He was this very stern man." "There's one picture I carry you probably seen around." "He's in a black-and-white." "It was his National Guard photo." "I carry that on my desk, along with the two girls." "He has those piercing eyes, that just, like, staring at me, and every time I see it," "I can hear him telling me," ""Do the right thing,"" "so he's kind of, you know" "When I see that picture, it's my big brother still there, me and my big brother." "I've always felt like he's not resting, not with him not being the cop that he wanted to be." "I feel like he's not resting." "Just rest, Steven." "Just rest and let us handle it on this side." "I don't think there was anybody that she met that didn't know what happened to her" "15 or 20 minutes after meeting her." "It was just her way of coping with it that she needed to talk about it, and she kind of ran into a problem a little bit, with her family because they didn't" "Their way of coping was different." "They wanted to forget about it." "Before she was fun, and she liked to do different things, and after, we were homebodies." "We stayed home." "Everything scared her." "One time we were in Old Town in Albuquerque-- with some relatives of mine that had come into town, and there was a parade that day, and something happened during the parade, where it sounded like a gunshot going off," "and, boy, that just set her off." "She just had an instant reaction and started screaming, and it took us quite a while to calm her down." "I was at my house." "And they called and said that my grandma needed me, and I had a feeling it was my mom." "I lost a friend that day." "I miss her terribly, every day." "But I know she's watching over me." "This child was just so smart." "At the age of 2, she could read." "At the age of 5 she was in a competition in El Paso, in another Catholic school." "She used to love to sing and dance." "At that time it was Solld Gold dancer, and she said, "I'm the Solld Gold dancer,"" "and she'd dance around, and she'd throw her body on the floor and kick her leg over the other leg, and she had a way of wrapping everybody around her finger." "She did." "And you miss that, when someone can draw your attention so much." "Her relationship with her mom was unbelievable." "That's why it's so tough." "I mean, that was her first." "They bonded so well." "They were" " When my wife got a divorce, it was just them two, in a sense." "I do thank God, even if I had her for a short time." "It's better than no time at all." "That's definite." "I have a sister, Jolie, who's quite the seamstress." "She totally got the cheerleader's uniform from New Mexico State down to a T." "And we were at the game, and there was Paula, and she's doing her cheering, and they saw her." "The cheerleaders saw her, and they took her down." "And that must've been the best day of her life." "because she took pictures with Pistol Pete and pictures with the cheerleaders, and, oh, she was in heaven, for about 10 minutes, when they decided that she was not insured by the college and she could get hurt," "so Paula was just a handful." "I remember there, a few weeks after the, he was chewing bubblegum, and he blew this great big bubble and then, out of the side of his mouth, he goes," ""Give me a kiss."" "And she was real shy." "She got close to the bubble" "He tells her, "You want some bubble?"" "And her lips got close to the bubble, and he started sucking the bubble in, and he sucked the bubble in, and her little mouth would get closer and closer, and all of a sudden he just sucks the bubble in" "and..." "That was her first kiss." "And from there till the day she died, he goes, "Hey, mlja, my bubble kiss?"" "And she would go give her daddy a kiss." "All we have is 2 1/2 years of her, and her little personality was barely coming out." "And, like her dad, very serious, kind of shy." "She had to get to know you before she talked to you, and if she liked you, you know it, and if she didn't, you know it also because her eyes said everything." "Her little eyes said everything." "Her last birthday, Patricia bought this for her." "And the little girl just-- the whole summer just did not want to take it off." "I just want them to know that this is how big she was when he shot her." "That was her little body right there." "That's how wide she was." "Probably stood around that tall." "I'll never take this away from my sister." "This is hers." "It always comes back to me." "I remember, after a late night shift at the bowling alley," "I'd come back to the house, and he told me," ""If anything ever happens to me, you know, please take care of my girls."" "Unfortunately I can't do that now, but the best thing I could do is to try to at least make noise to let people know these people lived." "They were here." "They contributed." "Remember going to Steve's funeral and the funeral of his daughters, and I remember crying at that funeral, just uncontrollably." "Nobody should lose their family this way." "I felt like my life was ending because a piece of my heart was gone, and I felt like my heart was shrinking and not growing." "The bishop had said in the services that it was a spiritual warfare that we could not understand, between good and evil." "And I heard him, but I really didn't take to-- not at that point did I take what he was saying." "I was tortured, certainly, because I was the one who took her, so that had a pretty big impact." "It still does." "But..." "I believe in God, and I believe that ultimately" "He will take care of them." "Ultimately He will." "Yes." "Those 45 minutes, I think, she" "I imagine her very confused." "I imagine her not knowing what to do." ""Do I go up?" "Do I go with the float?" "Or do I stay here with Mama and help her?"" "I think she was confused." "I come from a Catholic home, and we do believe in heaven, and I honestly believe that she was so very confused as to whether to stay or whether to go with her dad." "It must've been the hardest decision for a little 2 1/2-year-old to" ""Do I go to heaven, or do I stay with Mama?"" "And I've always felt her presence." "I feel like she feels the same way that I do." "We were cheated." "She was only 2 1/2." "And we were cheated." "And I miss you, Mama." "I miss you, Mama, but you're better off." "The world's not the same anymore." "There's a lot going on here and... you girls are just better off where you are, with your grandma and your dad." "That's it." "After a few years had gone by, this whole thing died." "This is one of the worst things that happened in this community, ever." "I remember, for years, every year, it would be in the paper-- for the anniversary of February 10th, it would be in our newspaper." "I remember, one year," "I believe it was, like, 17th or 18th year, there was nothing." "Years have a way of, not necessarily healing in this sense, but forgetting." "People forget." "And it just came to me," ""Why are you sitting here crying every year," ""looking at the same reports over and over?" "Why can't you do something?"" "First things were just posting stories, getting the story out again, a number of different Web sites that deal with these type of losses, these type of investigations." "I found people who do cold-case stuff on the side." "You can only do so much when you only know so much." "I don't know everything about this case." "If I did, I'd probably go to other avenues, but I can only deal with what the press puts out, what witnesses say, what the detectives said." "That's all I have to go on." "We're pleading for assistance from the public." "Someone out there knows." "Someone out there has the key to help us solve this thing." "And if it takes another 14 years and standing up here and asking you to please come forward, then another 14 years I'm going to stand here." "Well, many of us will never forget what happened 16 years ago inside a Las Cruces bowling alley." "Three kids and one man were shot and killed in a gruesome attack, and tonight's Special Assignment Ian Reitz takes an in-depth look into this cold case and what's being done to catch the killers years later." "Well, Nick and Mari, this has been a hard case for detectives to crack." "While they're using technology to try and help them, they're also making a plea to the public, hoping that one of you at home knows something that could lead to a killer." "Is it out of the question that these two guys went into the bowling alley, massacred seven people, and never said a word to anybody?" "Is that possible?" "Sure." "Is it probable?" "No." "I'm not saying there's nobody out in this world that can shoot a 2-year-old baby and not have any reaction to it at all, but there's not a lot of those kind of people, and it's hard to find two people hanging out together" "that both could shoot a 2-year-old baby and not have any kind of change in their behavior, their personality." "What's the latest on the case?" "Well, the latest is unfortunately" "I mean, there's not a lot of new leads coming in." "Every lead that has come in has been thoroughly investigated and exhausted." "So, I mean, here we are, and here's our latest attempt to keep the case alive, keep the case fresh, keep the leads coming in." "We did a media release." "I believe it was Wednesday night on Fox." "That led to one Crime Stoppers' call the very next morning." "Homer and..." " And Genno and Rose?" " Yeah." "I think they've done the best that they can." "It consumed them, and it was their life, and for the longest time and" "I do." "I feel that everybody's done the best that we-- that they know how." "You'd like it for to be a very simple armed robbery that went bad, but all the research that I've done, all the reports that I've read," "I have to believe it's more complicated than that." "I think that the department was not prepared for something of that enormous nature." "There's a lot of agencies wouldn't be ready for it." "I mean, even in this day and age, there are agencies that wouldn't be ready for a situation like that." "I have to really praise the detectives with the Las Cruces Police Department, the police officers, all the other agencies that assisted us in this particular case because they were very diligent." "They worked long hours." "They went without sleep." "They went without lunch breaks." "We've had over a thousand suspects." "We've done everything humanly possible, scientifically, from getting a hypnotist to getting psychics from getting... you name it, profiles from D.C. investigations, but every time that we get a lead, somebody throws a wrench in there." "A lot of people are keeping information, and they are giving it to us six years later... either because they were scared, because maybe now their conscience has gotten to them, and they're calling us," "so this is what we're waiting for." "We're waiting for that piece of information that can help us solve it because we really don't have suspects." "All we have are composites." "You always have regret that it wasn't pursued to the point where the individual" " Excuse me." "...where the individuals were caught and prosecuted to the extent of the law." "Nowadays with forensic technology," "I mean, it's" "Almost anything can be analyzed and discovered whether or not it's part of your case or not." "Back in 1990, I think," "DNA was just barely in its infancy." "If we were able to utilize forensics now, back then," "I think that there would be a lot more evidence available to us." "I'm confident that they committed a crime either before or after." "These guys" " This was not something new to them, so we need to keep that in mind when you're thinking about what you may have seen." "There's someone else besides these two people that know what happened." "A documentary filmmaker is on a crusade." "He wants to revive memories of an unsolved mass murder that shocked New Mexico and the rest of the nation nearly 20 years ago." "They called it the Las Cruces Bowling Alley Massacre." "Stuart Dyson with the story." "Stu?" "Eric, the filmmaker, has been hard at work in Las Cruces, El Paso, and here in Albuquerque, too, talking with survivors, cops, and the families of those who lost their lives when two gunmen" "shot seven people in the head, execution style." "Where's the rest of the money?" " It's in there." " Show me." "Unsolved Mysteries re-enacted the massacre a few months after it happened in February 1990, the gunmen methodically shooting seven people in the head, killing four of them" "6-year-old Paula Holguin and her 2-year-old sister Valerie Teran, their dad Steve Teran, their friend Amy Houser, just 13." "Filmmaker Charlie Minn saw the Unsolved Mysteries episode on NBC and never forgot it." "And I said to myself, "Someone has to resuscitate this story."" "It's too important." "Too many innocent lives were taken, kids." "I mean, we had a 2-year-old shot." "Cinematographer Ryan Hall is from Cruces, just a kid when it happened." "I remember hearing about it, I think, when I was in middle school, but then not really much after that, every once and a while." "It does kind of fade, and I think it's good the documentary's being made to bring some light to the seriousness of what actually happened there." "Four funerals, three of the coffins tiny," "Las Cruces plunged in grief." "Witnesses saw the gunmen run off, but they were never caught, never even ID'd." "The filmmaker hopes the documentary can change that." "My goal is to get people to start talking about it, and we're all human beings." "Someone may just slip and say something that might be the final piece of the puzzle." "If one of those people that had a crucial piece of information never got it off their chest and then they died, then we would never have any way of knowing, and that's why it's so important for anybody," "I mean, anybody that has the slightest suspicion or the slightest piece of information that they thought all these years may not have meant anything, or they're too embarrassed or whatever reason, they didn't pick up the phone and let us know," "well, please let us know." "You don't have to give your name." "You don't have to-- We have anonymous ways for people to call in and report it." "Hi." "How are you?" "I don't know if you remember me." "I'm Audrey's sister-- one of them." "How you doing?" "I like this." "Yeah." "I can't get over it." "I don't trust anybody." "I go anywhere, I just-- I've got to face the door because I've got to see who comes in and who goes out, or if somebody comes in, and they haven't come out," "I start panicking." "I don't know, you know?" "It just..." "Yeah." "I think I'll get to a point where I won't think about it every day and I can go on with my life... and be the mother to my children, that they deserve." "Very brave young lady, to be able to keep it all together, call 911, and assist us the way she has, as well as the other two." "I" " I feel personally... happy... when I seen her earlier, and I'm glad that she was able to keep it together." "Okay." "It's okay." "Melissia-- that's..." "Excuse me." "I'm not sure I would've been able to keep it together after such trauma and then the loss of her mother, who is her anchor, and she still has it together." "Good Lord." "Grew up, huh?" "Good." "There has been so much said and done, and the pleas and the hurt and everything." "We're 20 years later now." "I worry every time, you know, the anniversaries or birthdays come around because I know my sister's going to suffer, and if catching these guys makes her happy and catching these guys gives her closure, then by all means," "go for it, but if I have to see her the way I saw her that day," "I don't want them caught." "Even if they caught the guys the next day, you know what?" "That's never going to bring them back." "My brother was my brother, and my nieces were my nieces." "When I saw her for that one day, that day... there was no life in my sister." "She lay there like all her strength was gone." "I picked up her hand, and it was like-- just like she was dead, too." "This community, once they put it behind them, I understand." "I wanted to, I just wish we could've had the justice tagged onto it." "I don't know." "There's only one person in this world who knows what my future is." "And it's the Man Upstairs." "He's dealt me a lot of hard blows." "And I'm still here for a reason." "When something this tragic happens, you have to have a better appreciation for life." "You have to." "If you don't, then you're not doing anyone that passed away any justice at all." "I think you always hope, and you pray, but it's been a long, long time, and if it is solved... the scary part, I think-- not just for me, it would be for Audrey," "it would be for Ida, it would be for Melissia-- would be, "Where's that going to take you?" ""Is that going to take you to that day" ""for ever and ever?" "Do you ever" " Does it--"" "And I realize that, that day doesn't leave you, but you learn to live with it, but if it all comes to a head, are we all going to go back to that day and start all over?" "I want it solved." "But I'm curious about closure." "I mean, if closure comes close to the time that it's happened, does it close?" "If 20, 30 years go by and you have closure, what happens then?" "Is it the same?" "Is it different?" "I don't know the answer." "I'd like to know, but I don't want to go back to square one." "Subrip: easytobeaman" "Subtitled By J.R. Media Services, Inc." "Burbank, CA"