" We are here with György Egely, who is one of Hungary's outstanding researcher, writer and scientist." "I do not know what the most appropriate title would be." " Research-engineer" " Research-engineer." "Please introduce yourself, some people may not know you very well." " I did my studies at the Technical University of Budapest as a thermal-power engineer, which I had finished in the '70s, and started working at the Central Research Institute for Physics (KFKI) of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences." "I worked there for 15 years as a researcher on nuclear power plant accidents, so my background is primarily energy transfer, hydrodynamics." "I was always interested in this, but in a slightly wider aspect." "I always thought that engineers should look at biology as an example for patterns." "So I still think very strongly today that a lot can and should be learnt from life, the phenomena of life, and the living and non-living nature." "The issue of sustainable development in biology has already been solved by the nature for millions of years." "So what works there, could be used in technology." "That is my motto for life." "That is the subject of never-ending debates among academy circles, because they're stuck at the end of the 19th century." "I think that for example biology shows us phenomena in paraphysics, which has not been worked out by contemporary science." "Unfortunately, this is why 'criminal strategy' is chosen by them." "Criminals often deny everything, as long as they are not proven wrong." "But until then they just deny, deny, deny." "I always say that we need to see things with our eyes wide open in nature." "Flip all the rocks, and look under them." "We have to check every opportunity, because everywhere we look, we can witness the destruction of nature, and the degradation of the human environment." "A drastic system change is needed." "Not only in politics, but primarily in technology, in the way we relate to our environment, in the kind of world we will pass on." "One of the big surprises for me was that warm (not hot) or cold fusion processes are used by nature too." "Not only at the high levels of development, like the vertebrates or primates, but also at the levels of bacteria..." " Before we go any further, could you give us a short introduction on what exactly "warm" or cold fusion is?" "How should we imagine this?" " I think that there are 3 major innovative power generation techniques." "The first of these is what can be seen at tornadoes and spiral galaxies." "In these examples the conservation of energy is violated." "The second is when we tap into the energy of oscillating vacuum, which exists everywhere." "It is just not that easily accessible." "Finally, the third great opportunity is the peaceful nuclear fusion, namely cold or warm fusion." "This title is a bit misleading, because we relate to the process of hot fusion as the explosion of the hydrogen bomb or something which occurs inside big stars." "But there is a "lighter" version of this which is used by the organisms." "Basically the process of combining nuclei releases large amounts of energy." "These nuclei are the lighter ones, such as hydrogen, helium, lithium, boron." "Around this area." "However today's technology prefers nuclear fission instead." "The first product was obviously the bomb because there is always money for that." "This was followed with the birth of the fission reactors, like the one operating in Paks (Hungarian town)." "But in my view these have a huge flaw, and it is not primarily security-related, or that they leave radio-active waste behind, but the fact that they can be built only as a huge industrial facility, they require many highly educated people to operate, and they are expensive investments." "So it is impossible that I put this effect in my car, or put it in my cellar and let it generate heat." "Only big companies, states and military organizations can access them." "In biology the motto is 'small is beautiful'." "Now, the big trick with my fusion is that it can be cooled down with some clever tricks." "Nuclear fission and hot fusion in particular works with raw power." "High-temperature, high pressure, extreme parameters." "In biology, life is always based on tricks; you need to think a lot." "There are many little tricks to know, you have to pay attention to nature." "Ingenious, brilliant, clever, but it's worth to learn from nature." " Returning to the fusion: you mentioned hot fusion." "How can we imagine the hot-, dusty or warm- and cold-fusion?" "What is the difference between them and what kind of structure or device is required to operate them?" "Where might we encounter such a process?" " Yes, we see hot fusion in the Sun, we do not even look into it." "Hot fusion has a very funny version, which is rather similar to cold fusion, at the crown of the Sun." "Few people know that the surface of the Sun is 6000 degrees (Celsius), and you might think, that the gas around it is cooler because the freezing cold of space is minus 270 degrees." "There's this hot ball of fire of 6000 degrees outside temperature, everything is bubbling, so it should get cooler." "But no!" "150 million degrees is the temperature of the crown of the Sun." "They do not understand that, since they can't measure it at all." "They just do not understand, what is keeping it so hot." "Nature shows us a trick here as well." "It is referred to as dark energy." "Something produces energy, a lot of energy comes from somewhere, and it is missing from the system, because it pushes the universe apart." "It is expanding like madness and they can't find the source." "This is called dark energy." "So there is a trick here." "Not to mention that the spiral galaxies are moving completely abnormal, although the sphere galaxies move like in science books." "There are lots of things around here." "But there is a big anomaly at the Sun's crown." "These are at such high temperatures, which we can't do technically too much with." "Having said that, it reaches 1500-2000 degrees inside the internal combustion engine for a very short time, and we can handle that." "We do not like the higher temperatures than this, because even tungsten starts to melt, and from that point we are screwed." "Physicists, using two very extreme parameters, try to catch hot fusion." "Where the lowest temperature 800 million degrees Celsius is." "We can't even imagine how much 800 million degrees are." "I think it's a great shame that they think with only such extreme parameters." "This is the case when tricks are needed." "Or, we enslave the plasma in strong magnetic fields, this is known as 'tokamak' concept." " What is plasma?" " Plasma can be seen in the Sun." "When a gas is very hot and it emits light then it is called plasma." "A flame, the campfire of prehistoric man and the gas-discharge in a neon tube are plasma." "Anything which is a little hot and lights up, in fact." "Even the dilute gas around the tungsten bulb can be considered as plasma." " Just to be clear, where is the plasma in cold fusion, or generally in fusions?" " At such high energies and temperatures, 1000-2000 degrees, the material can be freed from electrons by poking electrons from its outer electron shell and that is plasma." "So when something is so hot, the plasma always shows up." "In fact it is defined as the fourth state of matter." "This is the state when a substance is no longer neutral and its electrons are free to roam around." "Note that when the electron leaves the outer electron shell, it leaves behind a positive ion." "This is plasma." "I have to tell those that are interested that a piece of metal can be considered degenerated plasma." "Such as a piece of wire: the electrons can move in the wire and there are positive ions there." "That is cold, you can put this piece of wire into your pocket." "You can't put plasma there, it burns." " So the hot fusion - that we talked about - is taking place in the Sun, the Sun's interior." "Cold fusion would be that ..." "So the processes on the crown can be called cold fusion, or these take place at even much lower temperatures?" " The process there is so intense, that this peaceful, quiet and radioactivity free fusion process heats the crown of the Sun up to 150 million degrees." "There it is only question of insulation, how to transport the energy." "There are huge masses, distances around the Sun, no one grumbles because it is 150 million degrees." "Outside, outside." " I am not sure if I understand it correctly." "So you think that we can reproduce this on Earth, this process which takes place at the crown." " We can, the basic process, but we do not have to learn it." "As I said, the most amazing thing is, what organisms on the level of bacteria have always been using." " Taking into consideration cold fusion in more detail, what materials and substances take part in the process, how much energy is required to start up this process?" " The point of the fusion is that we merge light nuclei, they become larger and heavier nuclei, so they fuse." "When two companies merge, it is termed fusion as well." "So the process of a merger is the fusion." "If we could take a proton and a neutron, put them together so that they merge, that is called fusion." "It releases energy." "More often, however, a heavy hydrogen, which is a proton and a neutron, is squeezed with an even heavier hydrogen, with one proton and two neutrons, this is called tritium." "In the official physics, this is achieved using laser fusion or tokamak, which are billion HUF (multi-million USD) worth hot fusion devices." "The way they try to achieve this is so as to heat up these hydrogen isotopes to 800 million degrees, and these nuclei rushed around so rapidly at such high temperatures, so that if they collide against each other by chance," "then they can overcome the electric field that surrounds these nuclei." "It is for this reason that they need these extremely high temperatures so as when particles are thrown against each other and overcome this repulsive force, then they merge and release an enormous amount of energy." "Partly as gamma rays, partly as generated neutrons and partly as kinetic energy of radio-active products." "This is what is known as hot fusion." " So, a great amount of energy is required for the fusion to happen in these experiments." " To cause the collision." " Is there a less energy-demanding way?" " This is the aspiration of cold fusion." "The classic, well-known cold fusion's trick is to neutralize the repulsive effect." "In a way which is known as "charge-shielding" in technical terms." "Insert hydrogen isotopes into the metal-grid of a metal like palladium, as the electron cloud around it can easily neutralize that." "Soon after these electrostatic fields are generated using electrolysis so that the hydrogen isotopes vibrate, collide them with each other, at much smaller temperature." "The best-known trick is to soak up hydrogen like a sponge into a palladium electrode, using heavy water." "It is technically quite simple." "Take heavy water, which is liquid, (water actually) and plug into two electrodes, the cathode, or the negative electrode which is the one which soaks these hydrogen isotopes up." "The other electrode is a platinum electrode, which is not participating in this process." "In fact, the heavy hydrogen isotopes precipitates, and they are absorbed in the crystal-grid." "Due to a reason not fully understood, occasionally the process does not always start." "This is the so-called "classical" cold fusion, which is absolutely feminine." "Annoyingly feminine." "Sometimes it works, sometimes does not." "The problem is that there are thousands of parameters that have to be taken into consideration here, but very difficult to measure." "So someone is lucky and successful, someone else isn't." "We had this process in the '90s." "This thing was done because" "I was interested in this." "I worked at the KFKI and I was contacted by Mr Gábor Széles and told me that Videoton (Hungarian company) was willing to fund such an experiment." "I had actually received some sponsor money for this, so I gathered a great team of researchers, old-KFKI colleagues of mine." "We rented a tiny lab." "I made a visit to the library of the Technical University of Lausanne and flew into Japan for a conference" "I gathered the best ideas, (none of which were my own), but all were each individually very good ideas but everyone just stuck to his/her own ideas." "Because I didn't have ego problems and any idea of my own, I was able to work out the best." "I combined four ideas and we built the lab in three months, we reproduced the effect brilliantly." "With great joy we presented to Gábor Széles that we had the effect." "We needed just half of the time, and a quarter of the money originally planned, but had the result." "We could start intensive research in this direction." "And then we had a terrible misfortune," "I didn't realize just how our bad luck was at the time." "Gábor Széles got "Ikarusz", which was a great Hungarian bus company at the time." "If you are quite young you may not have even heard of it." "It was the largest bus factory in Central Europe." "With 20000 staff, it had a huge industrial capacity." "Gábor Széles was able to secure a contract with them and since then he was fully involved with it, he focused his every nerve on it." "He handed over this project to some third-rate, fourth-rate colleagues, and they were just not interested in this." "All they cared about were the profits in the following quarter." "I could not promise that profits would start to roll in the next quarter." "From this point on, they did not even say hi." "I did not get a penny and our calls were not answered." "That was all." " I read in one of your articles that even the results of your research were taken away from you." " They took it, yes." "They confiscated all our equipment, all electron-microscopic records, the material test results, they took everything from us." "Further to this, I do not know whether it was a coincidence or not, but when the first successful attempts had been made, two dodgy men beat the shit out of me in broad daylight on the bus 22 in Budapest." "I was exceptionally lucky that they could not break my neck." "It was cold and I was wearing a scarf." "20 people were on the bus." "The scarf actually saved me and the fact that I kicked one of their balls, and then the driver and the police came." "The police dropped the case, by the way." "They said that nothing happened." "My face was bruised for half a year, my glasses were broken, my face was covered in blood, as they had punched my glasses made of glass, etc etc." "In a few days, Eugene Mallove, the editor in chief of a magazine (Infinite Energy) was killed in the United States, he had publicly proclaimed that the energy source of the future was cold fusion." "Funds were deprived from many researchers in America." "So I think there was something sinister and quite suspicious going on behind the scenes which I couldn't explain." "Similar incidents to this happened all at the same time, and in many countries." "That was also the time when the research opportunity was denied from Mizuno in Japan." "My friend Mallowe was also killed." "Research funding stopped for 3 US researchers, so it sounds like something quite fishy was going on behind the scenes." " Do you have an idea as to where those research documents were transferred to?" "Who could be behind it, would you have a guess?" "Are these documents still available somewhere, or were they deliberately destroyed?" "Do you have any information on this?" " I have no idea." "Energy prices were very low back then, and soon, these alternatives were dying out, and soon the price of oil went up the roof, Al Gore was overthrown by electoral fraud." "George Bush, the puppet of the oil industry won the election in the United States." "Not to mention, that for 3 trillion dollars the war in Iraq and Afghanistan had started." "The price of oil thus skyrocketed." "The global economy soon broke down, because you can't have a stable world economy with such high prices." "So that's it." "My hunch is that this happened to profit the oil industry." "There were a few things that came to surface, like the oil industry also controls the price of paraffin, it cartels that." "The Nepszabadsag (a reactionary Hungarian newspaper) published that even" "Mol (Hungarian oil company) was sanctioned by the European Commission for carteling of paraffin." "Yet paraffin is only needed for candle, chewing gum, so the whole thing worth shit." "They agree on the quotes even there, and this is called the 'blue room'." "Every year, the members of the cartel gather and agree on the price of the paraffin for that particular year." "Now they (the government) and the Union want us to believe that these people do not even know the word 'gasoline', and that the carteling was only about paraffin, floor-burnishing and chewing gum." "They think we are that stupid." " You mentioned the experiment, where there is an anode, and a cathode..." "So thinking in terms of an everyday DIY guy, how should I imagine the whole process?" "From the start, as I understand it, the anode and cathode deliver voltage and the hydrogen is generated." " It appears, but it will be absorbed immediately by the palladium cathode." "Palladium is in the platinum group of the precious metals." "It is almost as expensive as platinum." "Similar to gold." "Therefore, we did not use big chunks of platinum or palladium in our own experiments whether." "We had a colleague, who worked in the layer-physics lab at ELTE (Hungarian University), which was led by Professor András Szász, which was a very good team." "(This group was dismissed.) So we used those materials in micron-thick layers, so it was cheaper that way." "I can tell you now, because my 15-year confidentiality agreement has just expired." "A few-micron-thin layer of copper was applied on a porous ceramic plate." "That was the "adhesive"." "On the top of this was placed a very thin layer of palladium, and upon which a very thin layer of nickel was applied." "The reason behind this was that as the palladium sucks itself on hydrogen, whether heavy or light hydrogen, it swells and begins to crack." "The hydrogen can seep back through the cracks." "So you can't really feed it." "If, however, we cover it with a soft layer of nickel, it can expand like hell and the reaction may start." "But this so-called "classical" cold fusion has a huge problem." "It takes place in liquid water at normal pressure, it has a finite temperature in that it begins to boil at around 100 degrees (Celsius)." "Therefore, its practical use is limited." "You can close the whole arrangement into a sealed container and then we can increase the temperature to 200-300 degrees on higher pressure, but it is still cold." "We were at the edge of a discovery." "This process worked beautifully for us." "It is also on YouTube as a 1 hour documentary 'Intolerable inventions', which is the follow-up of 'Forbidden inventions'." "You can watch them." "My friend, János Dugasz speaks about this." "We recorded this on the days before the closure." "But you can't achieve very high efficiency, because the temperature is always low." "This effect prefers higher temperatures, somewhere between 300-500 degrees." "So it was in fact pointless for the bosses of Videoton to take our measurement documents, and design results." "Since then we reflected a lot more on this, we read a few journals, and we realized that it could be done in a much better way." "So our new process's temperature is much higher, somewhere between 1500-2000 degrees." "The most fundamental demonstration can be done at home with a microwave oven, anyone can do it cheaply." "To be honest, it's just a start." "The interesting thing is that you can try it in 10 minutes and you have a fusion reactor." "This is not dangerous." "Not radio-active." "There can be some small weak radioactivity but only if someone understands the whole process of it and starts to power up the oven completely, as we did." "Now, I seriously warn everyone and I do not recommend to power up your oven!" "It should be done only by well-trained electrical engineers." "We did that but our device was much more efficient, a hundred times as good." "I will tell you the simplest way step by step." "We can create dust fusion in a simple way: take a wooden chopstick, sharpen it, ignite it and wait until it starts to ash, now put it into a candle or porcelain (anything which is an insulating material)," "and put them into the microwave." "Position it roughly in the middle, about 5-6 centimeters from bottom of the oven." "Close it, turn it on and you can see that at the point of the smoldering wood chopsticks a small globule appears." "This globule may begin to expand and jumps up to the ceiling and buzzes." "This is the simplest process." "It's just 30 seconds, but this is still cold fusion." " Is this not risky?" "Can we really try this at home?" " Sure, there is no danger in attempting this." "The next step is to put a small jar above this stuff." "A normal glass jar should do." "By doing so we close the plasma, so the phenomenon is going to be much stronger." "The sound phenomenon as well, a resonance starts." "The drawback of this, that it generates a lot of heat, and the jar will explode within 30 seconds because of the heat stress." "The next option is to cut down a piece of a pyrex glass tube, let's say, from a 30mm diameter tube, and put the wooden rod end into a 50-10 centimeters long piece of glass tube." "Pyrex, which is said to be heat-resistant glass is good, but even this begins to warm up at 600 degrees." "So it's even better, if we get quartz glass." "It's expensive." "You can find it here and there." "Cut off a piece of 10-20 centimeters of a 25mm diameter glass tube, position it horizontally into the microwave, and get some coal dust, charcoal dust or graphite powder." "We could put a graphite pencil casings there." "It definitely works." "But this is the ultimate limit of what anyone can do at home." "Then he will have dust fusion at home." "Let's call this dusty or warm fusion." "It reaches around 2500 degrees (Celsius) temperature inside a quartz tube on average." "Very complex processes start to take place." "It is the so-called dusty plasma, nano-technology processes that start to happen." "Carbon nano-tubes start to form, what has a conductivity 1000 times higher than copper." "A series of such tricks start in physics, and therefore it is a strange process." "It's not visible from the outside, but brilliant things start happening." "That's the ultimate limit for the enthusiastic amateur." "There is very large gap here between the amateurs and professionals." "At this point we need to modify the whole device's control unit, but this is not the subject of an interview of a few minutes and from there it could be dangerous." " But you are pros, and you did not stop the experiments in 1996, and you still continued experimentation." "During this process energy can be extracted." "Roughly how much energy is to be supplied, and how much energy is required to maintain this process, and how much can we get out of this whole process?" " Well, let's say, the input is 1 kWatt or 2 kWatts of electric energy, and the output is 30 times higher." "It's partly chemical energy, so I blow in carbon-dioxide and the heat destroys the carbon-dioxide." "If it is water vapor then it decomposes to hydrogen and oxygen." "Nuclei change trough this process, so it is also suitable to neutralize hazardous waste." "This process is basically suitable for power generation or heat production." "The entire system can also be redesigned, and we can start to use all kinds of tricky plasma resonance, so then this process could be used directly to produce electrical energy." "I suspect that this was done in the 1930's." "I believe that Tesla have already discovered this effect." "I wrote about this in my book 'Borotvaélen', and how this could work with the involvement of coal." " In this example you mentioned that for every 1-2kWatts of energy being input, 30 times this amount comes out." "Is this same process reproducible in these high temperature environments of around 1000-2000 degrees Celsius as well?" "Would it be able to achieve that?" " Yes." " Can this process escalate out of control?" "Would it be difficult to control?" "Can it be potentially dangerous?" "These are very high energy environments, right?" " This process is actually very gentle in the way, that once the input energy is terminated, then within a millionth of a second, the whole process is terminated." "So it is a well controlled process and not a self-accelerating thing." "This is one advantage." "The current fission nuclear power plants are built in a way, that if something goes wrong, a tsunami or a party secretary starts to fool around and they eliminate the protective devices, then there is a problem." "You do not have this problem here: if something fails, we fret a lot about it, the thing stops immediately." "So in that respect, this system is good." " What are the implications of this experiment for people in their everyday life?" "How do you vision that?" "Where this could be built in?" " There are different forms." "Ours is a medium temperature, hot plasma." "But hot, well ... 100 million degrees is hot, but 2000 degrees is hot too." "That's why we prefer to say 'warm' or dusty." "What usually happens with a 'cool' liquid is the electrolysis, which I mentioned before..." "That is the classic cold fusion." "I would call ours 'warm', compared on this scale." "There is a intermediate version of this which I would describe as dilue plasma." "It's around 500 degrees Celsius which could be used to heat households." "There is a tube, powder in it." "First heat this to operating temperature, of say 300 degrees, and then the only job left is to push the cold coolant through it, and this one works with around 10-15kW energy." "The whole annual heating season would cost about 20 forints ($0.11) for fuel." "The cost of building such a device, and I would like to emphasize that you will not get it for this price, but if mass produced," "I would estimate it would cost 100 thousand forints ($555)." "I emphasize, it's not the reactor, not the heating part is the one which costs much, but you have to control the pumps and the pressure system." "If you add this together, it will costs as much, but a modern natural gas-fired, modern, high-efficiency boiler will be cost you at least as much." "So this should be not a big deal, and in turn we would get reliability, sustainable development, and cheap operation." "These latter benefits can not be overlooked." "It does matter what we leave behind for the future generations." "Heaps of rubbish, or something like, look, my son, here is this boiler, you get the fuel replaced in it for 5000 forints ($28) yearly, and you keep your home warm in winter." " Do you think that there is a way to somehow convert this heat into electricity for use in the household?" " We have the reverse Peltier effects, when the low, 200 to 300-degree heat can be converted to electricity directly." "There are semiconductor gadgets that can produce around 100 watts." "But as I said, there is the Tesla-way." "We can extract the emitting electricity at low pressure, with plasma vibrations directly." "This one requires some further expensive research, but then eventually I think that this would be a 500-600 million forints ($3.4 million) bill, so it is not cheap." "But it can be solved." "I think however that the majority of our energy consumption is non-electric energy, but heat." "Schools, hospitals, housing are heated so heat, heat, heat." "Then it is followed by less electrical energy and even less for specific chemical reactions, we need this and that there." "This warm fusion is suitable for operating at 600-800-900 degrees, extract the heat, extract it into an external combustion engine, Sterling motor, Tesla turbines, etc." "There are many possibilities." "Alternatively you can circulate and boil water through it." "The water vapor dissipates into oxy-hydrogen at these temperatures." "The oxy-hydrogen goes into an internal combustion engine, so I can use that way." " On the subject of households." "Would it be possible, or does it make sense to use our current knowledge of this to use domestic tools with some basic DIY techniques to try and build ourselves a backup-system for our homes?" " No, no, no." "We don't even try to make nail-scissors, and those are simple." "Just try to build good nail-scissors at home, then" "I don't even mention the watch." "Just wait until you have to cut out the first pinions..." "No." "To make this thing really usable and operable, you need very high level of plasma physics and nuclear knowledge." "You don't have this at home." "would warn against trying to build this at home with any DIY technique." "You can grow things in your backyard, carrots, rabbits..." "In biotechnology, you need good crosses." "No one makes that at home, one goes to the seed store and buys them instead." "This machine is very technology and know-how intensive." "Extremely." "So here the issue is not that something is very precious and very investment-intensive, but more so that it requires a lot of thought." "Therefore, it would be particularly suitable for mass production in Hungary." "We have the mass of uncultivated minds." "Hungarian small and medium-sized companies would be perfectly suitable for mass production." "The only missing thing here is the integrity and the will power." "This is always one of the greatest short coming." " So you are saying that Hungary has the tool kit, it has the knowledge, we would have the knowledge, we have the right professionals, but it simply cannot be undertaken." " That's right." "For example, ATOMKI (Nuclear Research Institute) in Debrecen is perfectly suited for it, it has everything there." "In theory the KFKI has a plasma physics department who specialize in hot fusion." "They have all the devices, all the money, all the brainpower, but these people do not focus on cold fusion, but rather, spend their annual 100 million Forints ($470000) on hot fusion projects instead." "And that is a perfect failure." "It is been researched for almost 40 years intensively." "They have the same zero results in the last 30 years, but it is very good to keep the minds of intelligent people busy and to make them think that they are doing something useful." "In the meantime they sell oil for as much money which they are not in any way ashamed about." "So I think that if you ask the question whose interests is served by this, it is perfectly obvious, that it is the interests of the oil industry to feed this money into the hot fusion." "There is so much nonsense around, such as claims that the fast-laser or giant laser built in Szeged could help with cancer research or fusion research." "This is interesting because, about 40'000 people die in cancer every year in Hungary." "More than ever since it is researched." "More and more people, and yet these methods surely don't help." "Despite our second lasers, we will not have fusion, and yet from the tiny fraction of that money, a prototype could be built and it would be virtually free to operate." "Not to buy, but to operate these equipments." " Do you think that the hot fusion researchers would be more broad minded in the future and open to switch to cold fusion, or is this a religious/dogmatic issue, or what is that keeps them there?" " This is a religious thing." "A few years ago, a former partner, a colleague of mine, somehow arranged a meeting with Ferenc Gyurcsány (former Prime Minister of Hungary)." "They met twice in person, using personal contacts." "Ferenc Gyurcsány did not know plasma physics, but I had written a 3-page summary." "In these sort of matters an expert is needed from the KFKI." "The head of hot fusion research," "Sándor Zoletnyik visited my colleague to check it out." "But he did not let us turn the unit on, he started shouting and screaming at us instead," "'What on earth are you thinking?" "How can you even imagine to ask money for this, do you really think that" "you can fool politicians with this nonsense?" "'" "The fusion and science works in the hot fusion researcher's head in a way that everything has to be 3 floors high, any system below about $2 billion is worthless, and that is stupidity, swindling, insane," "that this can be done in a small box, in a little shitty workshop." "My reaction to this is that this is the reason it's worth learning from biology, life, because it's done by a bacteria, and much better than we do." "We can't surpass that of course, we are beginners compared to bacteria and yeast, but at very least these effects can be reproduced in the household." "So to return to your question, they preclude automatically, that this technical process can be solved in a different way." "A physicist always thinks with muscle." "He thinks like..." "How does the hydrogen bomb work?" "First you get a nuclear bomb, ignite it and the exploding atom bomb starts the fusion." "Make at least 800 million degrees (Celsius)." "The engineer does not think in this way." "The engineer thinks like:" "'Where could we read between the lines to do something?" "'" "'How to build - like a Matryoshka doll -, resonance, into resonance, into resonance?" "'" "'How could we shield these strong repulsive fields?" "'" "So the engineers think for one month or one year." "The physicist says: 'We have a lot of money, we have the power and we get the money from the politicians.'" "I could also imagine joining forces of small and medium-sized entrepreneurs and fund approx. 200-300 million ($1 million), which minimum amount for to reach the prototype state." " Let's say you allow your imagination to run free and assume that your device is ready in 5 years, then how do you imagine things 50 years from now?" "How significant would the impact be?" " Well, the coal mining industry virtually disappears." "The thermal power plants are transformed into fusion power plants." "Low cost electricity comes through the network on one hand." "If you take heating into consideration then this method would become so commonplace." "In this case, the man who earns 180 thousand forints ($1000) per month and he spends so much money on utilities, that he can't save enough to travel, culture, etc." "But with this technology he will be able to live within fairly human circumstances." "His home will be cheaper because it is cheaper to burn the bricks and it's cheaper to transport the bricks." "It will be very cheap." "It will be cheap to heat his apartment and he would save 5-6 times more money than before." "The services and the health industry will have new opportunities, people will have higher standards of living." "Vacations will last 3-4 months instead of 2 weeks." "Tourism grows, that is obvious, as someone goes skiing in winter, and spends two months during summer on vacation." "We don't have to work 12 hours but 6 hours instead." "It's almost like a communist utopia." "That's what I am a scared of, because the tax office immediately rises to the heights of the situation, and then somehow starts to tax the heat, or perhaps, the light, or air." "They are damn innovative in these ways." "But they can't tax people like they do now on oil or natural gas." "The roles of the state is reduced, we no longer need a large army, because oil is not worth fighting for any more." "There is another very important aspect of this warm fusion discovered and developed by us, and that is that this oscillating plasma is known to be very efficient way to generate Tesla-scalar or longitudinal waves." "This fact has been systematically neglected in physics since the 1890s." "Nicola Tesla discovered these radio-waves in the same year as Hertz did the transverse waves." "Both wonderful and discovered at the same time." "Hertz won with the more primitive transverse wave." "So the wave moves like what you see when you throw a pebble onto the surface of a pond, and you can see the way the wave spreads, it oscillates up and down." "The sound wave, on the other hand, spreads like this, the vibrations move back and forth." "Electro-dynamics has this as well." "The resonant plasma emits these waves too." "This is one huge problem around the sizing of such professional equipment." "Huge problem." "The plasma starts to behave very very feminine." "It may work, but if we move it 5mm somewhere, then suddenly it's all over." "Just going by text book physics we cannot explain why it does not always work, it is incomprehensible." "Why?" "So these background things are important, and it's not a good idea to go against Tesla waves." "They have biological side effects when exposed to them for a long time, but we know how to handle this." "There are positive effects as well, which was discovered in the 1920's by (Royal) Raymond Rife, an American doctor." "These waves can destroy viruses and bacteria selectively." "For example someone with a flu virus can be cured by simply making him or her lie down on a table while a vibrating plasma machine configured to the proper frequency can kill the virus." "In this manner we could cure herpes virus, influenza virus, but even the AIDS virus." "Viruses can also cause tumid diseases." "For example, the papilloma virus is now known to cause cervical cancer over time." "In fact, it is written that the herpes virus due to the continuous re-infection for 20 years, builds up brain tumors." "If we could prevent this, we could regularly 'clean up' people, and the cancer-statistics would look much better." "Fewer people would die and we would be healthier." "That's the medical aspect." "It is not easy to claim that I can solve the Earth's energy worries, but that I can also cure cancer with the same equipment." "Everyone reacts like he has never heard such nonsense." "Yet, in fact, this is just another application of the same principle." "It does require totally different equipment, but it's solvable." "This shows what enormous potential it has, if you pay attention to nature." " Another question relating to this, is to do with new developments you see in construction industry?" "I read in one of your articles that you are not a big fan of these modern renewable energy sources." "Why is that?" " Today's renewable energy sources are the wind and solar energy." "We get fusion energy third-hand in these cases, because what people think of as renewable, it is always solar energy." "If however you look at the wind, we are indirectly working on a fusion energy source in the way in which the Sun heats up Earth, let's say, in Africa, that generates a rising air current there," "so as to direct the air flows down from the polar region, to the desert where it rises again." "When this same wind rushes through the shores of Scotland it is consumed with large wind turbines which are versions of the windmill." "Electricity made in this fashion can be sold." "Why is it not good enough if this fusion energy works in my garage or my basement?" "Why do we do it like this, if there is a lot easier way?" "On the subject of solar energy it is most needed when it does not shine." "We need it in the winter." "We may not see the Sun for 3 days in winter." "Or even for a month." "So that is the issue." " You mentioned CERN, the research center in one of your articles, do you think that this might not be a suitable investment because it is very expensive and because they are dealing with things that probably would not benefit us as much as cold fusion." "Why do you believe so?" " In a typical household, if a child is hungry, the roof is punctured and water is dripping in, and the other one is ill, then the wife should not spend the money on nail polisher," "the man should not spend the money on beer, they should fix the roof, give the child something to eat, take him to a doctor, and buy the medicine." "These are exactly my views on the most important questions such as sustainable development." "Let us strive to give all the people human dignity." "The conditions for a decent life." "They should not have to live as a worm, a beetle, hungry for life, and we should pass on to our future generations the planet in an even better shape than we have received it." "In my view these are the priorities and I don't give a dawn to the Higgs-boson." "I think that that's stupid and embarrassing hanky-panky, that they try to sell us as science." "'Superstring theory' is pseudo-science." "This whole subject is juicy pseudo-science, it's impossible to prove or to verify experimentally." "It is hence really embarrassing and a really great shame that we do not focus on the most important things." "We should feed more than 100 million hungry mouths, and don't you think that it is limited to Ethiopia, Somalia, or the tiny remote villages in India, in fact around 100 thousands, perhaps millions of people in Europe starve." "I have written and published on the internet a 60-page study titled 'Apocalypse 2012' and I seriously believe and predict hunger riots in the future." "We should not wait until it is too late." " Now for the big question." "Can we ordinary people who are not scientists or professionals play a part in making this whole thing work?" "Cold fusion is not too far out of reach if we had the funds, to make it a reality in every day within 1-2 years." " That's right." " What is it that is required what can we do?" " Well, now, the government gets money from every citizen in the form of taxes." "So we deserve this friendly, radioactivity-free, risk-free fusion." "The 'state machine' does not do us a favor if say, they order the ATOMKI in Debrecen to work on dust fusion and get involved with it." "We deserve it and this should be realized." "The politicians do nothing, or just attend on football matches until people don't go out into the streets and start throwing Molotov cocktails into the windows of the Parliament." "Nothing is going to change until then." "If however a large proportion of the population are aware of its existence and if these the intelligent, decent people who are well educated work together and among them there are those who are somewhat good at organizing things or who have access to production facilities." "If these people join forces besides their own financial interests then we can do it." "There are already foundations out there, we also have such a foundation. (Zöld Technológia Közhasznú Alapítvány)." "Another one is the Federation of Hungarians (Magyarok Szövetsége)." "All sorts of people are environmentally friendly, the only thing missing is information." "So in fact all that remains to be done is just the matter of counter-propaganda, so that all the filthy lies are stopped once and for all and to spread the truth of this information like wild fire." " Well, thank you very much for your time," " We hope so!"