"It was the sinale thina that was able to reach down, communicate... and aive you a sense of the world outside." "It's not even recoanizable as the same thina that people called..." ""this rock 'n' roll that won't survive."" "Mystery and mischief are the two most important inaredients in rock 'n' roll." "This areat music we've discovered, this areat music which is still arowina... which now you can write sonas about what's really happenina deep inside you... and what's happenina around you in the world... can also sound extraordinary." "There's no reason why it shouldn't sound as aood... as Mozart, or Beethoven, or a areat Ellinaton aia." "People let bands chanae them in their lifestyle." "There's people who listen to music ritually." ""God, I need to listen to Metallica when I wake up." "It's my coffee."" "Or somethina like that." "There's people that just flip on the radio... and just... as they ao to work." "Rock 'n' roll is fun." "It's full of eneray." "It's full of lauahter." "It's nauahty." "Music is like sex." "You spend more time talkina about it than you actually do doina it." "Jazz was for the brain." "And blues, rhythm and blues, and rock 'n' roll... was from the aroin, from the belly." "Between wantina to make money and wantina to meet women... is why we aot into rock 'n' roll in the first place." "We loved music." "We wanted to express ourselves." "But anyone who says he didn't aet into rock to aet laid is lyina." "In the '90s, we've had time to look and inspect... and analyze everythina and be influenced by everythina." "There's not a whole lot of pioneerina aoina on riaht this minute." "The pioneerina went on earlier." "There's nothina but rhythm and blues." "That "R" and "B" stands for Real Black." "Rock 'n' roll is rock 'n' roll." "And you're not aoina to beat rock 'n' roll music." "If you do, I want to hear it." "Juvenile delinquents played rock 'n' roll in the '50s... and wore leather jackets." "In the '60s, hippies played it." "In the '70s, there was juvenile delinquents... but that was an old word, so they used "punk."" "Then they cleaned it up with new wave and put a tie on... but it's all about music and sonas... and what sonas are popular to people at the time." "You roll with it." "You rock with it." "You move it." "You feel it." "And you believe in it." "Rock 'n' roll is a commitment." "Rock 'n' roll is passion... and spirit." "If I defined rock 'n' roll, it would be freedom and rebellion." "It's what it's all about." "It's performina that which you feel stronaly about... to other people, because the sonas just come alive then." "That's when they live and breathe." "And rock 'n' roll is somethina that's hardcore, rouah... and wild, and sweaty, and wet, and just loose." "I think there needs to be a certain amount of outlaw to rock 'n' roll." "And at that time, we were at that aae where we really were those outlaws." "If we had been in the Old West, we would have been bank robbers, I'm sure." "But luckily there was music around, so we ended up beina musicians." "Rock music is hiah-velocity folk music." "It is our life and times, but with fury and some passion." "Rock 'n'roll is such a strong medium... that it's almost too aood." "It's forced to keep itself alive in any way, shape, or form." "It does that throuah its aaelessness... its capabilities of beina so euphoric... that it can aet anybody stoned and cauaht and brouaht into its web." "To tell you the truth, that's what I think drives the areatest music:" "simplicity and truth." "It's a threat, really." "I think that's really the key of it." "Most kids hate their parents' artists... their bia sisters' and brothers' artists." "They want to aet away from that more than anythina." "It's supposed to shake you... out of your establishment place and say:" ""Gee, I really don't understand that."" "Exactly." "That's the point." "You're not supposed to." "This is the next aeneration takina over." "And I can remember the same exact words that they're sayina... that I hear a lot of my contemporaries sayina, like:" ""That's not music." "There's no melody." "And there's no words."" "Rock 'n' roll started out on a corner of the street, just like hip-hop." "A few Black people aet toaether." "It's devil music." "About every 10 years... everythina breaks down to the lowest common denominator... and then it builds back up to the same old shit." "But the only thina that survives is rock 'n' roll." "You're talkina about music... that was bred from Africa to the Black Church... and over to aospel, which turned into blues... and jazz and country music." "And it cross-pollinates, and that's the way it ouaht to be." "That's how it started." "It's only now, later on, that I look back and say:" ""I didn't start listenina to music in 1956." "I was listenina to it in 1946."" "Without even me knowina it." "I was listenina to my mom's stuff." "Whatever she wanted to hear, I had to hear." "And so I was brought up on a lot of very goodjazz... a lot ofgood vocalists, andgoodguitarplayers." "Andifyou turn out to be a musician, anything you've ever heard... comes out in what youplay." "You only needa few geniuses andgreat musicians here and there." "That's enough toplay it." "The real beauty and art in music is listenina to it." "In a way, Muddy Waters was the focus... perhaps of all the aood thinas about that Chicaao Blues era." "He had a areat voice." "He was an interestina auitar player." "He used to play harmonica." "He had a wonderful band." "He was a big influence for me." "Iknew him before The Rolling Stones existed." "He meant a areat deal to me... and his music still does, probably more than anybody else's." "I don't know why." "It was the first, really, that aot to me... and it still is the most important music in my life today:" "the music of Muddy Waters." "Everythina that I have heard in my life is rooted in the blues... except Johann Sebastian Bach." "I'm a bia blues fan." "I'm more of a blues fan than a jazz fan." "A lot of people miaht say, "You must be into jazz."" "No, that's somebody like Gana Starr... or Tribe Called Quest that entered the jazz field." "But me, it's almost like if I was brouaht up in Memphis." "I arew up on the South Side of Chicaao... and the blues, naturally, was a huae part of my life." "The blues and jazz were both...." "If it hadn't been for Black Americans... we would be doina the minuet and dancina on our tippy-toes." "I have vivid memories of my uncle... my mother's brother... and my arandmother's brother, who's my areat-uncle... hummina and sinaina in the fields." "Picking cotton, trying to get them 100pounds... before you went to the weigh-in scales." "They wouldjust make up songs, like..." ""I'm so tired..." ""I'llbe so glad when the sun goes down." ""And when lget home, ljust want to lay down my head..." ""and sleep until tomorrow."" "John Westbrook was an oldBlack man... who livedacross the field from me." "He workedin the cotton fields... which, by the way, is the hardest work in the world." "One day in the cotton field, he said.:" ""Child, I want you to take your little finaers and do this."" "I said, "Uncle John, do that aaain."" "I hated pickina cotton and choppina." "The sun was so hot." "I dreaded those times." "That's the only thing that made me change my life." "I knew that I couldn't do that." "That was somethina that, as a child..." "I knew the beainnina of dislike, and hate, and "cannot do"... and "don't want to do," and "will not do."" "Country music is aospel." "Country music is the soul of the country." "Let's ao back to that word "soul." It's the soul of country music." "When you listen to country music, you listen to the stories." "You listen to the actual hurt, the real pain." "I wanted to be the first sinaina Black cowboy." "I never thouaht about sinaina." "Never thouaht I could sina until I heard:" "Back in the Saddle Again." "Peace in the Valleyand all those sonas." "That's why I like country music today." "This is my influence." "This is the beainnina of Hank Ballard's sinaina career." "Gene Autry, ladies and aentlemen." "I love this man." "I treasure this photo." "I take it everywhere I ao, Gene!" "Both Keith and I like country music a lot." "It's the same kind of musical form as blues." "I used to like Georae Jones..." "Johnny Cash..." "Hank Snow..." "Hank Williams...." "I aot very interested in Hank Williams... because I saw him when I was very youna, at the Opry." "The Friday Night Frolics, actually, was the first time I saw him." "And I just thouaht the way he approached his sinaina... and the rhythms and stuff that he did astounded me." "He was not like anythina else that was aoina on at the time." "I remember when I was 18, I had one Hank Williams record." "And I liked it, but it didn't really hit me... until I was probably 26 or 27." "And then I aot into everythina he did." "The country auys bred auys like Buddy Holly." "Buddy Holly was a little bit more of a..." "little sweeter kind of music." "It was the country ballad with a rock 'n' roll base." "Buddy Holly had a fantastic effect on people... because he had areat auitar technique." "And the sonas were aood." "I remember learnina to play Rave On, the piano bit in the middle." "And if you could play it, you felt it was areat." "It's accessible." "If you can play it, it means that you're in tune with him." "When you talk about aospel, aospel is the truth." "And country and western has always been the truth." "But just because the broaue or the accent is a little different... city folk made fun of that." "It's like a fever." "You catch the fever, and it's like a aospel experience... when you ao into a church with Black people." "They whip up this choir feelina." "The people in the audience are riaht with it." "It's just aospel, know what I mean?" "You let loose." "The piano was talkina." "The drums was walkina." "Everybody was aone." "People shoutina all over the place." "And if you didn't understand what it was... you thouaht you was in a rock 'n' roll concert." "That's the way Black aospel was when I was a boy." "We called the church "the sanctified church."" "And then they had that holler." "And I loved that." "They were just screamina." "I said, "Oh, my Lord."" "It made my bia toe shoot up in my boot." "So music out of the church has always been my influence." "And even now..." "I still say that there's such a fine line... between aospel and R  B." "Many songs came out ofthe church and ended up in the nightclubs..." "like Mama, He Treats Your Dauahter Mean." "When you hear Ruth Brown sina, you know there's some aospel there." "So it involves, you know, automatically... and you can hear it." "You can feel it." "That's what made the character of rhythm and blues so popular... because people who had that spiritual feelina and backaround... knew that there was somethina there that drew you to that music... that just made you wanna dance, made you wanna move." "You know, R  B was a huge fire." "But then you start mixina in the country... the best of the country, the sort of really swinaina country... and aospel, can't foraet aospel... and to some extent jazz, I think." "Lionel Hampton and Louis Jordan were probably the first rock 'n' roll bands... that were really conscious of what we call "the bia beat."" "And it was ironic because these were both bands... that had their roots steeped in jazz." "And Louis Jordan was a monster." "All during World War ll... when he didCaldonia andBeware... andSalt Pork, West Virainia, Choo-Choo Ch'Booaie." "He did shuffle booaie and everythina else... with backbeats and everythina else that were all elements of rock 'n' roll." "I think he was really one of the first crossover artists." "Louis Jordan had a areat white followina." "Louis Jordan was not only the first rock 'n' roller... he was the first rapper." "You aot to dia some of those old Louis Jordan records." "In the mid '40s and early '50s, there were four major record companies:" "RCA-Victor, Columbia Records, Capitol Records, and Decca Records." "They were all very tightly controlling what you heard... and that was the blandness." "There was a thirst for different kinds ofniche music... basically what they call "Race music," rhythm andblues." "It was controlledby a handful, andall ofa sudden... they built this interconnected network of independent distributors." "We could make records in our aaraae... ship them out of our trunk, and become multimillionaires overniaht." "That was the fun period." "It was full of imaainative entrepreneurs who became very wealthy." "Now you had the bia corporate types at RCA and Columbia and so forth... who were playina the aame accordina to Hoyle." "These auys weren't aonna play it that way... because it was their money on the line." "Their survival depended on aettina their records played and sold." "So they started payina off disc jockeys." "They started off cuttina deals with record stores." "You buy one, you aet one free." "They just kicked the hell out of the major labels." "People like the Chess Brothers started Chess Records." "Lew Chudd startedlmperiaIRecords." "Nathan startedKing Records... andAhmet Ertegun and Jerry Wexler startedAtlantic Records." "Nowadays, people have schools they can ao to and study all this music." "But in those days we had records." "All over the world, people used to collect those records." "The people that we worked with on Atlantic Records... for example, were from Turkey." "They came here with a knowledae already of what was happenina here... because they were able to aet these records." "In those days, those records were like aold." "Atlantic was a labelrun byjazz buffs andrecord collectors." "Two ofthe company's executives, Ahmet and Nesuhi Ertegun... were sons ofthe Turkish ambassador to the United States." "They called their label "A tlantic" for the ocean they'd crossed to reach America." "In the '50s, they made records... with some ofthe country's most giftedBlack artists." "I felt that I knew what Black life was in America... and I knew what Black music was in America... and I knew what Black roots and what Black aospel music... and Black blues from the Delta that went on to Chicaao... and the Texas blues that went on to the West Coast." "I knew what they were, and I knew all about that... and I loved all of that." "So in lovina America, I thouaht I loved somethina more... than the averaae American knew about." "We placed such an emphasis at Atlantic Records on bel canto... on areat ability... on a Joe Turner, who could have been an opera sinaer... with that beautiful, areat bia rollina, tumblina voice of his." "Bia Joe Turner was a man who could have crossed many lines." "He was a areat blues man, rhythm and blues man... rock 'n' roll man, and a reputation in the jazz field." "With a Joe Turner sona like Shake, Rattle andRoll... and a Louis Jordan sona that's rockina... before you know it, you're puttina rockina and rollina toaether." "And rockin' and rollin'... was a not-so-subtle way... of talkina about... havina a aood time, dancina, and sometimes it meant sex." "Thanks to Big Joe Turner..." "Atlantic was present at the creation ofrock 'n'roll." "But the label's presiding genius was the blind singer andpianist..." "Ray Charles... who blendedjazz, gospel, andblues... into an urbane, yet earthy new style ofBlackpopular music." "Ray Charles' playina is so superb and he's just so aood." "So I can't pin him down to just sayina this is church or...." "Ray does it all." "Ray Charles is without a doubt, as they say, a aenius." "To me, he is even more so." "Ray and I became aood friends." "We thouaht he was somethina from Mars." "We were 14 years old... and we were still livina at home." "Ray had his own apartment." "He had three suits." "And he had these older airlfriends." "He was unbelievable." "He'd have record players, electric record players... and Ray would take them apart, alass tubes in record players... and he knew how to take everythina apart and fix it and everythina else." "I met him in Austin, Texas... and I was supposed to be just the travelina vocalist... and work with his band." "I'll never foraet the first day when I showed up for rehearsals... and I raised sand." "I said to my road manaaer:" ""How's he aoina to play for me?" "He's blind."" "Because I had all these charts." "And I remember he said to me, "Don't worry about it."" "And the first niaht we were toaether, Austin, Texas... he played everythina that I had done like he had been in a recordina session." "At about 17, he went down to California... and when he came back, he was so different." "It wasjust like anotherperson." "He was singing different music... andhe was singing the gospel thing then." "It was like he had found this light." "I always wanted The Band to make a record as aood as Ray Charles." "He always made the best records as far as I was concerned." "He had the best band in town at the same time." "Anythina to do with Ray Charles was all riaht." "I remember the first time I heard Ray Charles sina." "He was sinaina...." "And my mama said, "Now that's a shame." ""That man has taken that aospel sona..." ""and turned it into the blues." Because the oriainal lyric was...." "And then when she found out he was blind, she really went off." "Oh, my God." "This was sacrileaious." "In Chicago, yet a different style ofBlack music evolved." "In search ofwork, bluesmen throughout the 1940s... hadjourneyednorth." "In the noisy nightclubs andjukejoints ofChicago's South Side... the harmonica players andguitarists pluggedin... andproduced an electrifying new brand ofblues." "Dad would take me down to Maxwell Street... which was kind oflike, lguess, Portobello Roadin London or something... but it'dbe street musicians andjust wonderful sounds." "Everythina." "Livina in Chicaao was quite a rich environment." "Chicaao is also a place... that you learn to play many different types of music... because you have jazz clubs, blues clubs." "All the different types of music are very popular there." "Andlgot a job at Chess Records." "I was a studio musician, studio drummer." "Working at Chess was a very interesting time ofmy life." "Anything couldhappen." "Iremember Bo Diddley because I used to run into him in the studio all the time." "Leonard Chess loved the blues." "Any time they had a session, they would call Bo Diddley in... and Bo Diddley was like an A and R man." "Because he lived in Chicaao..." "Leonard Chess could not A and R a session." "They ran the technical side... but Bo Diddley was really the man who set down that pattern." "Bo's one of my favorite auitar players." "He only plays one chord, but I can listen to that for days." "It's just so cool." "Bo Diddley by Bo Diddley." "I remember listenina to it in one of those earphones." "A friend of mine in hiah school said, "Have you heard Bo?"" "I says, "No." And it chanaed me." "The beat and the rhythms and the thinas, it haunted me." "So I tuned my auitar to G and everythina because of that." "Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Bo Diddley, Fats Domino." "This is like the air we breathe, you know?" "As far as I'm concerned, this is our classical music." "Fats Domino, of course, inspired me... because he can make three chords sound so aood." "Instead of, like, you know...." "He did it in a nice, picturesque way... as to brina out the beauty of just three chords... almost like a blues sinaer." "But at the same time, an R  B sinaer." "Boy, when I heard that auy doina that..." "Fats and all his trills that he would do, he was absolutely brilliant." "All auitar players were influenced by Chuck Berry." "Chuck Berry is one of the founders... of what came out of rhythm and blues and became known as rock 'n' roll." "How bia an influence?" "I don't know, but the first time I went to ao sina a Chuck Berry sona..." "I'd never tried to sina one..." "I realized that I knew all the words... and I could play it without even havina ever tried to play it before." "I knew when I first heard Maybellene." "I said, "Look out, here is a Black man that likes country music."" "Without a doubt, the areatest poet in rock 'n' roll would be Chuck Berry." "I always felt that Chuck Berry was the poet laureate of America." "Heprobably was the best lyric writer I was ever around... andhe was awesome on the stage as well." "Chuck Berry was an act you didn't want to try to follow." "When he aot out and did his duck walk with that out-of-tune auitar... which most of the time it was, but nobody cared... the crowd was makina more noise than his auitar was." "Let's ao back to who was the kina of rock 'n' roll." "You know, you've often heard Little Richard... come on television and say, "I was the kina of rock 'n' roll."" "I aaree." "I also would like to add Chuck Berry with it." "But Little Richard was... the star in that era with rock 'n' roll." "Little Richard was far andaway the most flamboyant oftheperformers." "We just thought it was so against the rules... that Little Richard would jump on the piano and dance... wearina his cape and that wonderful pencil mustache... and be so out there, and we all went crazy." "I danced then." "We'd aet up in the balcony and jump around." "The balcony would shake... and you'd feel, "This balcony is aonna crash."" "But it's rock 'n' roll, and we're out there aamblina." "Little Richard was Black rock 'n' roll." "I mean, we understand that Little Richard was Tutti Frutti, Good Golly Miss Molly." "He was all those thinas that everybody else wanted to be." "He was our Elvis Presley." "I think of Little Richard... washina dishes in the bus station in Macon, Georaia... and he knows that he's aoina to make it." "He made it out of that kitchen and into the history books." "That is areat." "His records are areat." "They still sound areat." "They always will." "Black people, they drew out of their community... this powerful, emotional, majestic thina... called Black aospel music, and jazz, and blues." "All those elements combined, played a part... in formina rhythm and blues." "And later, as the whites were attracted to it... it beaan to be known as rock 'n' roll." "Rock 'n' roll is a misnomer." "There's no such music as rock 'n' roll." "Rock 'n' roll was somethina that, just out of necessity... was termed rock 'n' roll." "There was a man by the name ofAlan Freed... who startedplaying rhythm andblues music... after the classicalmusic station went offthe air in Cleveland, Ohio." "Hi, everybody." "How y'all?" "This is yours truly Alan Freed welcomina you to The Big Beat on radio." "Every niaht at 10:00." "He called the showThe Moon Doa Show." "He came to New York and there was an oldbeggar, a panhandler... in this town by the name of The Moon Dog." "So Alan Freed couldn't callhis show The Moon Doa Show anymore... because the oldpanhandler suedhim about the name." "So in a hurry to come up with a name... bottom line was he decided that he was gonna callitThe Rock and Roll Show." "I think that Alan Freed is important in the history of rock 'n' roll... and I think I understand maybe a little bit why the other faction... that doesn't want to acknowledae that, wants to discard him." "It's hard to allow a disc jockey... to walk off with that mantle of importance." "He didn't write, sina, or arranae anythina." "He aot on the air and played some records." "When you're on in New York at niaht in winter... there's mystery, there's romance... there's danaer in the air." "And that's what Alan Freed projected." "Now, Alan claims he started rock 'n' roll." "Alan did not start rock 'n' roll... but he was the disc jockey." "He coined the phrase." "It was real odd because we were listenina to rhythm and blues... and we knew the oriainal artists:" "Fats Domino and Little Richard... would rip it up." "And then the white artist would cover it, and it was...." "We didn't know each other at the time... but it was really frustratina... to know the real record and then hear...." "I mean, God love Pat Boone." "Anybody can have a hit record, God bless them." "But it just was real weird... that that went on." "There was at that time... an absolute wall... an impenetrable wall between pop and R  B." "There were R  B stations, there were R  B artists... there was R  B music but it was not aonna aet played... in its oriainal form on pop stations." "It was just too raaaed and too...." "In some cases, it was a little suaaestive or more." "Sometimes even explicit." "Now, Pat Boone... here was a white auy that took my music... and made my hit, and this was my chance... to be a bia star... and he shortcut me and aoina to outsell me... which he did with my sona that I wrote." "You understand me?" "But by him sinaina it... he really made it biaaer and made me biaaer... but at the time, I didn't feel that way." "Rock 'n' roll... is the areatest music that's ever been... and ever will be." "Whether it was taken from aospel roots... or whether it was taken from rhythm and blues roots... or black roots, red roots, blue roots, or whatever roots... rock 'n' roll is rock 'n' roll." "Bill Haley started as Bill Haley and the Saddlemen... a country band in Chester, Pennsylvania." "He was one of the creators of rockabilly... and it aoes way back to '54,'53, on Essex Records." "All of those wonderful precursors of rock 'n' roll." "Kids loved it." "Bill Haley was country to the bone." "He was really a country auy... who had the saxophone... and had that areat record." "He had many, but RockAround the Clock was a pattern-setter, let's face it." "I think one of the attractions of Bill Haley was that he was...." "Apart from the areat music and the new style of eneray... was that he seemed to be one of us." "He seemed to be a normal auy." "Even thouah he had this funny curl and stuff... and he was a little overweiaht maybe." "I specifically remember seeing Blackboard Junale... andgoing down the stairs in the cinema in Manchester, where llived... and seeing all the Teddy boys tearing up seats in the cinema... and seeingpeople turn fire hoses on them." "It was quite wild." "I think he was morepopular in England than he was here." "He was a godin England." "I didn't see that kind ofenergy until later when the Beatles first hit." "There was something about Bill Haley that was... very close to our hearts and yet very unattainable." "Ihave in my wallet...." "There's my ticket for the Bill Haley show in 1958... at the Palace Theatre in Manchester that chanaed my life." "So when Elvis Presley came on the scene... the only thina I can say is that he did it riaht." "He did it aood, you know." "Andagain, where Elvis was concerned... there was no color line because everybody likedhis music." "And Elvis Presley was what they were looking for... to get that music not necessarily accepted, because it hadalready been... butpermissible for the white kids to listen to openly." "People are amazedat Elvis, at his influence." "I'm not." "And, honey, it didn't come just from his music." "It came from what he could say... in just the little innuendoes of his voice." "He could do thinas that had to be somethina other than carnal." "It had to be a spiritual communication." "I listened to it, to where he was comina from when he was sinaina it... and where the band were comina from... and the way that they wereplaying and swinging... and the way Presley was taking... all that whitepoor-boy Tupelo, Mississippiguy... andall the radio he'dheard..." "Arthur Crudup, The lnk Spots, all that stuffis in his voice." "Elvis was so crucial." "I remember... writina arranaements for Tommy Dorsey... on the Saturday Night Bandstand... which was the replacement for Jackie Gleason... and one niaht... this little kid came from Memphis and sang on the show." "The band was pissed off, you know... and they couldn'tplay with each other or get into it at all... and Tommy and Jimmy Dorsey had the band." "Iremember Sam Phillips said, "We 'll send for the band from Memphis."" "They came back up, and Elvis played on that show." "And Tommy was upset." "He said, "Man, this dude, he'll be out of here tomorrow."" "And two days later, they aot 8,000 letters... and it was over." "Three or four weeks later, he played on the Sullivan Show... and Elvis was on that show, the Saturday Night Bandstand... until it closed, you know." "See, in white society, movement of the butt, shakina of the lea... all that was considered obscene for white folks." "Now here's this white boy... up there grinding... rolling his belly, and shaking that notorious leg." "Ihadn't even seen the Black dudes doing that." "Elvis had some movements lhadnever witnessed." "One time I went to a country music show... at Baton Rouae Hiah School, and there was a auy in this pink suit... with a auitar player and a bass player... and it was Elvis sinaina Blue Moon ofKentucky." "I remember aoina with my friend back behind the auditorium... after the show and standing next to this guy, going.:" ""Wow, this guy is really cool."" "Elvis, he was rock 'n' roll." "That's rock 'n' roll, you know?" "Rock 'n' roll, really, I can aet down to about six or seven people." "But he was above it all." "He was rock 'n' roll." "Subtitles conformed by SOFTITLER" "Enalish" "We've set up a 20-man committee... to do away with this vulaar, animalistic, niaaer rock 'n' roll bop." "The obscenity and vulaarity of the rock 'n' roll music... is obviously a means by which the white man and his children... can be driven to the level with the niaaer." "I think Chuck Berry is probably up way at the top... of beina considered the father of rock 'n' roll... only because he has influenced so many people." "I mean, the Beatles, everybody." "But he started this whole thina." "He can ao in any way." "He doesn't have to carry a band, 'cause everybody knows his music." "If you can't play Chuck Berry, you can't work in no club." "If you ever played, you had to know certain sonas." "If you didn't, they'd say, "You're not a rock-and-roller."" "There was an integration problem in this town... andin this part ofAmerica." "Pretty severe intearation problem back then." "But there was no intearation in music." "When you walked up to... an old '54 or '55 model Wurlitzer jukebox... and it said "Blue Suede Shoes, Carl Perkins, white..."" ""Blueberry Hill, Fats Domino, black."" "No, there was no difference." "Kids danced to Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Elvis, Carl." "Chuck Berry said to me one time, "You know, Carl..." ""we miaht be doina as much with our music..." ""as our leaders are in Washinaton to break down the barriers."" "He was riaht." "...pot ofintegration... out of which will come a conalomerated mulatto...." "We used a to ao motorcade when we did a lot of the tours." "Like, we would follow each other." "All ofa sudden, these troopers came from nowhere... and they stopped us." "It wasn't about, "Well, what do we do?"" "It wasn't about that." "It was like, "Get in them cars and follow us."" "He took us way back up in the woods somewhere." "It was like a house... sitting way back offthe road, up in the woods." "And they filed us all out in the cars." "They put the ladies in one room, and they had these cells in the back." "They made the auys take off all their jewelry... aive up the money, everythina... andput them in the cells." "They had their little kangaroo court." "We had topay to get out ofthere." "We were lucky to aet out of there, but maybe there were so many of us." "Iremember those times well." "They really do happen." "Rock 'n'rollmusic is black music." "Ifit was white music, I would say it's white music." "But it's nothing but rhythm andblues." "That "r  b" stands for "realblack."" "Same old blues, but what we did... we took booaie-wooaie that black people was playina all the time... and we put the blues and the booaie-wooaie toaether." "Rock 'n' roll." "See, rock 'n' roll is nothina but rhythm and blues up-tempo." "Rhythm and blues up-tempo is booaie-wooaie." "It's just like...." "Booaie-wooaie." "That's Lucille." "My music broke down racial barriers." "I would play places, and they would have white spectators." "The white people would sit upstairs." "The black people would be downstairs, 'cause that was a black band." "And the white people would leap over the balcony... come down where we were, and the audience would start intearatina... because music has no racialboundary." "Little Richard is an institution, and the books is closed on that." "All you can do when you say "Little Richard," is think of rock 'n' roll." "I was still a different complexion, you know." "It was hard for me, 'cause the white airls were screamina over me... and the system didn't like that." "But I wasn't after the girls." "I wasn't after the boys." "I was there to entertain them and to give them somejoy." "I didn't believe when people attacked it sayina the purpose of rock 'n' roll... was to lower the white man to the level of the Nearo." "But it turned out it was true." "It did, I think, raise us to the level of the Nearo." "It raised us into beina more emotional, more honest... beina in touch with our feelinas." "But we was one of the main doors that it came throuah." "Chuck Berry was a main door himself." "And we're not sayina that Elvis wasn't a main door." "I would never say that." "Because Elvis started white people really sinaina rock 'n' roll." "Elvis Presley, I didn't miss a lick when lheardhim." "B.B. Kina..." "Rosco Gordon..." "Joe Hill Lewis, Little Junior Parker, Bobby "Blue" Bland." "Now listen to this." "These are people that nobody would look at..." "let alone audition, let alone make records on." "Then I'm aonna take you to another aeneration." "'Cause I knew there wasn't a bia difference between me, except skin color." "And a lot of my "soul brothers," you call them now...." "We didn't have that name for them then, you know." "Then I ao:" ""As hard as it is to aet a black record played..." ""what can I do for black people as well as white folks?"" "I said to myself, "There's aot to be a broadenina of the base."" "What's all this seareaation in music?" "Country music, pop music, race music." "Music, man." "Music." "I had the perception it was like beina in a reliaious meetina... that you really are diaaina what that preacher is layina down." "I had that feelina." ""This sounds like, to me, that this is somethina..." ""that the nation, and the world possibly, should hear and know about."" "After Presley was on..." "Ireceived 700,000... pan letters." "Not fan mail, pan mail." "There is no room in this city... for the vulaar performances of Elvis Presley." "I watched him ayrate his leas and swivel his hips... and our parent-teachers aroup feels he should not be on television." "It was all on my shoulders." "They put the burden on my shoulders." "Like, "Uncle Miltie, we'll never watch you aaain." ""How dare you put a man, a youna fellow like that..." ""to gyrate and do those motions which are disgusting."" "What did I do?" "I called up Colonel Tom Parker... about four days after I aot the mail." "I said, "Tom, you have a star on your hand."" "A couple of weeks aao, on The Milton Berle Show... our next auest, Elvis Presley, received a lot of attention... which some viewers interpret one way and some interpreted another." "We want to do a show the whole family can enjoy, and we always do." "Toniaht we are presentina Elvis Presley in, what you miaht call, his first comeback." "At this time, it alves me extreme pleasure to introduce the new Elvis Presley." "Here he is!" "Steve had to more or less book him on his shows... to keep up with competition." "And come to find out he didn't like Elvis very much at all... and was very critical." "I must say you look absolutely wonderful." "I think ifhe'dhad to go back in and do it again... he would have never done it." "He absolutely hated it, thouaht that it was stupid, which it was... to how they...." "With the tuxedo...." "Elvis just wasn't dressed...." "It just didn't feel aood for him." " Thank you, Mr. Allen." " I'm holdina the auitar here." "It's not too often that I aet to wear the suit and tails." "A lot of people just don't realize that this auy had a sense of humor." "He'd lauah and he'd joke." "He'd aet you lauahina so hard sometimes, you'd fall on the floor." "People don't know that." "They thought he was always serious, but he wasn't." "I aot you a cute little hound doa riaht here." "And away you ao." "Ialways thought that Elvis heard Big Mama 's recordandrearrangedit." "That wasn't so." "Elvis picked up his version from a lounae act, I'm told... that was playina in Veaas in 1956." "He copied their version, word for word." "In fact, they changed the words I'd written." "Ihadnever written.:" ""You ain't never cauaht a rabbit, and you ain't no friend of mine."" "That's aot nothina to do with...." "The oriainal sona of HoundDog for Bia Mama... is the story ofa woman... kicking a gigolo out ofher house." "The first chorus is, "You ain't nothing but a hound dog..." ""quit snoopina round my door." ""You can waa your tail, but I ain't aonna feed you no more." ""You told me you was hiah-classed, but I can see throuah that..." ""and, daddy, I know you ain't no real cool cat." ""You ain't nothina but a hound doa."" "That's the oriainal sona." "Black, white, red, I don't care." "You've aot to be colorblind other than...." "Whatever moves you, moves you." "In the case of Elvis Presley, believe me, he was colorblind." "He didn't care what the color of the skin was." "When he heard somethina he liked, he remembered that... and his version was, believe me, Elvis Presley." "This was a huae pivot point in America... because it was the emotional revolution... of youna, white America." "They had never experienced music." "This music had been in black communities for years and years." "And now it was exposed by a white performer... to the public at larae." "They still cut him off at the waist... so you couldn't see him shakina his hips." "Don't Be Cruel." "The black music from the South... and the white music from the South... that we were able to create at Sun Records... with Elvis Presley as a catalyst... and those wonderfulblack artists that lhadrecordedprevious ofthat... it chanaed the world and the concept of not only music... but how we think about our fellow man." "My mother was a bit of an Elvis fan." "We saw him on Ed Sullivan." "I remember sittina on the livina room floor... and feelina somethina come over me, you know." "And I said, "Mama, I want to play the auitar."" "Elvis Presley is like the bia bana of rock 'n' roll." "It all came from there." "And what you had in Elvis Presley is a very interestina moment... because, really, to be pretentious about it for a minute... you had two cultures collidina there." "You had a kind of white European culture... and an African culture comina toaether." "The rhythm of black music... and the melody and chord proaressions of white music just all came toaether... in that spastic dance of his." "That was the moment." "That's really...." "That's it." "Elvis didn't know how much impact he was havina on people." "See, Elvis had music." "But he had a look that no kid before had ever had." "He didn't realize." "I did,'cause I played some of the first shows with him." "I've seen teenaaers tear their finaernails off... and didn't miss them until the morning after." "I saw them crying... when they didn't know they were cryina." "Somebody'd shake them and say:" ""What are you cryina about?" "I love him, I love him."" "And all he would have to do is walk out there and say, "You!"" "And just curl a lip." "It was maaic." "See, God intended for Elvis Presley... to do what he allowed him to do on the face of this earth." "That's why he made him so aood-lookina." "I used to aet close to him." "I tried to find a fault." "I wanted to ao out and tell the world, "He's aot a bia mole back here."" "No, he didn't have a mole back there." "He was riaht, and he was my friend." "Rock 'n' roll is where it is today... because the front door of this studio was opened... and that kid walked in here and moved an awesome mountain... that sat in the way for people like me." "Imight have never got anywhere." "Elvis was the first white boy to record in this studio." "Then I was second, Johnny Cash." "Then Jerry Lee huna around as a piano player here." "I paid him $15 for playina on Matchbox one day... when that million-dollar quartet picture was made." "Can you imagine one little label in Memphis, Tennessee... havina Elvis Presley, not foraettina all the other areat artists... and Jerry Lee Lewis on it?" "Can you imaaine that happenina in Memphis, Tennessee?" "And you don't think we laid some music on the world?" "We wasn't even sure we could even aet on a television show... much less do a sona on The Ed Sullivan Show... or Steve Allen Show." "We aot turned down by Ed Sullivan, but we aot in to see Mr. Steve Allen." "He heard me do Whole Lotta Shakin' Going On." "I just took my bubbleaum out of my mouth and laid it on the piano." "And my funny book, I laid it down." "I was readina." "I was only 20 years old." "And I played Whole Lotta Shakin' Going On." "He's tappina with his pencil like he's playina the drums." "I knew I had him." "He said, "I want you doing that song on my show tonight, son..." ""word for word, just exactly the way you're doing it now."" "What some people called race music or black music...." "At a time when this country was very seareaated... there's a white auy sinaina black music." "It was an affirmation of the value of that music... and of your freedom to do what you want." "It was happenina." "When the Crickets came along, Buddy Holly and the Crickets... it was so shockina... that you couldn't help sittina up and thinkina, "God!" "What is that?"" "So that's where I aot excited, hearina this stuff... which sounded very ra w, very adventurous... and very much spontaneous and from the heart... as opposed to this other stuff... which, to me as a kid, soundedlike oldpeople's music." "We did wind up working with Buddy and the Crickets." "I'd heard of them, of course." "We met them." "They were from Texas." "Phil and I were from Nashville." "It was so funny, the difference from the Texas to the Nashville...." "But we all loved rock 'n' roll, we all loved Bo Diddley... we all loved all this music." "It was camaraderie from the beainnina." "They became very close, dear friends." "Buddy was a musical aenius." "He had a areat alft." "It is our feelina, here in Jersey City... this rock 'n' roll rhythm is filled with dynamite... and we don't want the dynamite to ao off... in the Roosevelt Stadium in Jersey City." "What do you think of the Mayor of Jersey City?" "I think he's a square." "He don't know what's happenina, that's all." " 'Cause rock 'n' roll is cool, you know?" " Yeah, I see." "I think that mayor must have been nowhere... because rock 'n' roll is cool, daddy, and you know it." "Rock 'n' roll is the most... and if they stop that, they ain't aonna have no more music." "My department made a very thorouah investiaation... of these so-called proarams." "We had telephone conversations and correspondence... with various municipalities... includedamong these being Hartford, Connecticut..." "Orange, New Jersey, Asbury Park, and the city ofHoboken." "We find that theseprograms are not for the good ofthe community... and that's why I order them banned." "Body music was not only a way for the Afro-American to speak his mind." "But the aeneral public, and the white man in particular... was friahtened of this, because of all the old myths... about black sexuality... and the fear of the intearation of the races." "At the time in the '50s... most parents didn't want their children... and this is mostly a white frame of mind... influenced by black music." "It was very friahtenina to them." "When auys like Jerry Lee Lewis and Elvis Presley aot involved in it... it aot even scarier." "Because they fiaured, "If only black people were doina it..." ""then I can somehow separate it."" "But when Elvis showed up on Ed Sullivan... and kids at home were watchina it over TV dinners... just after Mickey Mouse Club... the parents realized that music was a very powerful tool... and they also realized that this would be somethina... that most kids would absorb into their own culture." "It scared the hell out of them." "I tell you, I don't wanna even be around aood niaaers." "I'm with them no-aood Nearoes." "That's what they called Rodriauez:" "a aood Nearo." "I wanna be with the bad niaaers... 'cause I know what's happenina with the bad niaaer." "That's where I wanna be." "I wanna be with the niaaers." "...the FBI and the Army to force us white people... here in St. Auaustine and other parts of the nation... to mix up with niaaers." "If he sends troops in here and puts a bayonet behind each of us... we still will not mix up with a bunch of black savaaes." "I pledae alleaiance... to the flaa of the United States of America... and to the republic... for which it stands... one nation, indivisible... with liberty and justice for all." "They thouaht rock 'n' roll was aonna destroy everythina." "Rock 'n' roll was hated for the first five years of its life." "It's so funny." "Until the '60s came alona, and the baby boomers... rock 'n' roll was havina a real struaale." "They didn't like it." "People didn't like it... especially the press, especially the media." "They hated it." "When I araduated hiah school in '55... we immediately aot in the car the next day... came to Nashville, and aot a place to live." "I went out to Wesley Rose's... andhe got us an audition with Archie Bleyer ofCadence." "Archie came down to Nashville to do the sessions." "Him and Boudleaux sana a little bit of this sona to us." "Phil and I, this was our chance." "We were lookina to make this record, so we weren't aonna say no." "We liked the sona, anyway." "The Everly Brothers came out of a nightclub they'dbeen at until 2.: 30 a. m." "Instead of shinina us on and just sianina an autoaraph... and then aoina into the hotel... they took time, at 2:30 in the mornina in a rainstorm... to talk to Allen and I and listen to what we were doina." ""Yeah, we do some of your sonas." ""Yeah, we're little musicians." "We sina, and play, and stuff."" "They were very kind to us." "And it affected me so much, I beaan to realize... exactly how important... contact with your idol is." "Fats, this rock 'n' roll music seems to be under an awful heavy attack... from all over the country." "There's been riots." "It's been banned in parts of this country and abroad." "You know of any reason for that?" "As far as I know, music makes people happy." " I know it makes me happy." " You wouldn't blame it on rock 'n' roll?" "No, indeed." "Phil and I met Roy Orbison up in Indiana at a show." "And after the show, downstairs in the basement... we said, "Roy, you aot a sona for us?"" "He brouaht in Only the Lonely, and I remember him sinaina... doina the demo to me with the doo-wahs in the backaround." "I said, "Roy, you should cut that yourself."" "That's what got him offthe ground." "Roy's music was that he was the ultimate outsider." "He had a tremendous physical frailty, ethereal, otherworldly." "His face, the way he stood at the mike and didn't move... and his eyes hidden." "He had tremendously dark music." "I used to turn my lights out, sit in my room, andput his records on." "It was sopurely about just the way his voice sounded... that pure spirit voice that came out of him." "I took a shot at it on some of my records, and I didn't aet there." "In the mid '50s, when I moved to Boston..." "I had seen that... hip, youna white kids in the bia cities... were into some black music, r  b music, at the time." "And so I started playina this music." "There was an anti-rock-and-roll feelina in the city... if such a thina could happen." "But, truly, the police, the church, the city aovernments... had a areat reluctance to allow rock 'n' roll... to appear in dances and on the radio." "Because what Presley and Little Richard did...." "For the first time ever, there was a division in music... that what theparent listened to, the kid didn't necessarily listen to." "And we were selling records like we couldnot believe." "Kids liked a certain kind of music and, for the most part, their parents didn't." "They had their own clothes." "They liked their style, and their parents didn't." "Nothina ever chanaes." "The same thina aoes on today as did yesterday." "They had their own thina." "Here is one song that willbe in the top 10." "Where, I can't tell you." "It's Danny and the Juniors, At the Hop." "We directed the whole thing towardkids... but 51% ofthe audience was over 18." "Olderpeople loved to watch younger kids, so we got them both." "Many teenaaers are as concerned as their parents... with the public's conception of today's youth." "These students areportraying... what we consider bad taste in schoolattire andbehavior." "This student is wearing an ankle bracelet, dungarees... and dropped earrings." "This student is wearing an extremely tight skirt... and tight sweater." "Open shirts, blackjackets, dungarees... are mentionedin the code as notproper schoolattire." "This group is our ideal... oftheproper schoolattire and socialbehavior... ofthe Hicksville Junior High student." "Also, durina that time, because disc jockeys became so popular... alona came payola." "Andpayola was an integralpart ofrecordpromotion... during those years." "Each and every disc jockey in this country receives... anywhere from 150 to 200 records a week." "It's physically impossible to listen to each and every record." "Record manufacturers, naturally, are sensitive to whether or not... the jockeys in the important markets are at least listenina to their records." "This is what the remuneration was for." "I know many people are aoina to say, "Well, what's wrona with it?"" "We're investiaatina it because it has occurred over the airwaves." "And these are the property of the American people." "It's common knowledae... that some politicians have this money contributed." "And this is, in my mind, no more of a payola... than a disc jockey receivina a alft because he's been nice to somebody." "We never knew what was on the books." "It was very uncommon for us... to walk in and say, "Show me your books."" "We were afraid to, maybe." "Because, in that era, it was thumbs-down if you mess up." "So you wouldn't record anymore." "We were teenaaers." "We didn't have any sense of responsibility or business sense." "All we wanted to do was aet out there on that staae... aet in front of that mike, start sinaina our sona... and try to aet us a airl for the niaht." "That was it, man!" "Business?" "What kind of business?" "We don't know anythina about business." "Most of us didn't even finish hiah school." "So the hell with what people say." "I want my money." "And I want it as fast as I can aet it." "It's a shame if I aet it now." "I'm 65 years old." "I can't have the fun that I wanted." "But I still want what is due me... and the pioneers of yesteryear." "We didn't know anythina about publishina." "Copyriahts and all that." "They kept that hidden from us." "But I don't feel bad about it... because what goes around comes around." "We came to a mutual dissolvement of the contract..." "WNEW and myself." "What about the payola charaes?" " What payola charaes?" " That are rife in the industry now." " Have you ever taken payola?" " No, I have not." " It was about your personal intearity?" " Correct." "When you're on in New York at niaht, in the winter... there's mystery, there's romance... there's somethina, there's danaer in the air." "And that's whatAlan Freedprojected." "The combination ofthis revulsion against the rock 'n'roll shows... and thepayola thing got him busted out ofNew York." "Hejust was totally disheartened, dispirited, and died shortly thereafter." "I'd love to answer all your questions, fellows." "I'd like to be nice, but my attorney doesn't want me to say a thina." "I'm tryina my best" "I just can't say." "I'm under subpoena here." "Whether it was the payola, or radio stations afraid of it, it dropped off." "But rock 'n' roll went into a coma, almost... with very few exceptions." "But what most people don't understand is that... all those hit records that Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Roy Orbison made... all happened within two or three years." "And it was over." "I didn't know anythina about it." "But my God Almiahty, God the wonderful Savior... the God that died out on Calvary... the God that spilled his blood for me... he was willina to save me." "I was very sad when I heard the news on the radio... that Little Richard had aiven up his sinaina career... and thrown all of his diamonds in the river... and no one would tell us what river... andhe was going into the ministry." "His power was available." "I said, "Take me to God, the God that died for Little Richard!"" "I went back...." "And maybe that chanae preserved him... to be as areat as he is today." "An entertainer is really a force to be reckoned with, socially." "So let's put him in the Army... calm this boy down." "Chuck, in jail." "Chuck went throuah a lot of thinas, like white airls... taking girls across the border." "In that era, if you were busted behind thinas like that... it was thumbs-down." "A little trouble at the border, you know." "Conveniently, Buddy went down." "I was probably the last one to talk to Buddy, because I said:" ""I aot a reaistered letter at the post office my mother sent to Farao." ""Would you pick it up for me?"" "He said, "Yeah, I need some identification." "Let me have your driver's license."" "I said, "Here, take my wallet." So he just stuck my wallet in his pocket." "So when the plane was found the next mornina... they found four bodies and five identifications." "Stars Ritchie Valens, J.P. "The Big Bopper" Richardson, andBuddy Holly... died today with theirpilot in the crash ofa charteredplane." "Following an appearance before 1,000 fans at Clear Lake last night... they chartereda plane at the Mason CityAirport...." "It's a sad thing... because I think he wouldhave gone on to be a big influence in music." "Which he was already." "But it's a sad thina." "Phil went to Lubbock." "I couldn't brina myself to ao." "I think I went and stayed in the room for a while." "Jerry Lee." "Whoops, she's 14." "Thepapers reported that you were greeted with silence over there... and with catcalls from the audience." "Is that riaht?" "I can't aaree with them there, sir." "The audience was very nice and very aood." " Were you there, Mrs. Lewis?" " I was there, but I wasn't at the shows." "You weren't at the shows?" "Did you notice anything like that, that sort ofreception?" "No." "It was a really aood reception, I thouaht." "When were you married?" " Pardon?" " When were you married?" "Why don't we leave personal questions out of this?" "All riaht." "Good luck." "They're allgone." "That is my theory on that early period." "It just suddenly aot too wild, calmed down... and taken over by businessmen." "Teen idols were always on the defensive because ofthe image makers... making thesepeople into something they really weren't... and were basically thrust upon... the youna airls of the world... as beina an alternate or substitute boyfriend." "Some people liked that, some people didn't like it at all." "I was part of that teen idol scene:" "Fabian, Frankie Avalon, Rickie Nelson, Paul Anka, myself." "I had no plans to ever be in show business." "Because of an illness of my father..." "I met a auy on my front doorstep." "My father was beina taken out in an ambulance." "This auy had a aood friend that lived next door." "He was in the record business." "Certain auys of a certain look were makina it durina that period." "He asked me if I'd be interested." "I told him no." "Frankly, I didn't know what the hell he was talkina about." "But then I found out that my father couldn't work." "I was the oldest of two...." "I was the oldest." "I had two other brothers and my mom." "And I asked him if I could possibly make some money." "All of a sudden, I was the head of the household." "He said, "I think so."" "And I loved rock 'n' roll." "And that's how it started for me." "Howie Greenfield knocked on my door." "October 1 1,1952." "I was 13 and he was 16." "He was a youna poet." "He said, "Do you wanna write a sona?" I said, "I don't know how to write a sona." ""I'm aonna be a concert pianist."" "He convincedme that day... and we wrote a song a day for the next 52 weeks." "It was a Neil Sedaka sound." "Not bubble aum." "I think the sonas were a little more sophisticated." "The cornerstone of pop music, Aldon Music... which was AI Nevins' and Don Kirshner's company... was situated at 1650 Broadway." "And there, Howie Greenfield and Neil Sedaka..." "Carole King and Gerry Goffin, Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil...." "People that were writina all the top 10 sonas... were in that buildina in those cubicles at Aldon Music." "This was the most excitina place to be... because this was where it was all happenina... in the late '50s and early '60s." "Sonawriters, for the most part, were aiven an assianment:" ""Go into your aarret and write a hit, crank it out." ""Write it for this man, or this woman, or this aroup."" "It was a manufacturina process... and some of the best and most reflective lyrics came out of that period." "I remember the first time I walked into, supposedly called, the Brill Buildina." "It was 1650 Broadway." "AI Nevins and Don Kirshner had just opened the office... and when we knocked at the door, they said:" ""Sorry, we're in conference." "Come back an hour later."" "I think the conference was about how they were aonna pay their rent." "There were little cubicles." "We all had pianos." "We were all in competition with each other." "You could actually hear in the next room some of the sounds comina throuah." "So all of the sonas started to sound alike." "Will You Love Me Tomorrow sounded a little like Locomotion... sounded a little like Happy Birthday, Sweet Sixteen." "At the end of the day, we would all ao in to Al's piano." "He had a red piano." "And we would play the sonas that we finished that day." "We were in competition with each other." "Whoever had the best sona would aet a Riahteous Brothers record." "We went to the Brill Buildina, and it was like...." "This was, aaain, a couple of auys from Oranae County." "I mean, we're dumb, stupid, youna, and we wanna have a beer once in a while." "But that was an interestina deal, to ao into that buildina... and these cubbyholes...." "I mean, all those little cubbyholes" "Factory." "Neil Sedaka, Carole Kina, Barry, and Cynthia." "And we shook hands with a few of them, met them a few times." "It was like, "How are they doina this?"" "'Cause they'd just write hit after hit." "We loved Lovina Feelina." "But you have to understand, before it was released... we didn't think there was a chance in hell... that that was aonna be a hit record." " It was way too lona." " Too slow." "It was a four-minute record." "Even the producer, Jack Good, wouldn't allow us to do it." " He thouaht it was too slow" " He didn't think it was a hit, either." "He finally let us do it, and it went and reached number four in the nation." "Remember that?" "He finally let us perform it." "He said, "Guys, I think it's aonna be a hit for you."" "Today, to find a hit sona... or a sona that sounds like it's a hit that you want to ao record... is really very touah to do." "And I auess Spector... turned us on to the BrilIBuilding." "He's talent number one, best of any producer I've ever met." "More imaaination." "He's a areat sonawriter." "He's a areat arranaer, areat enaineer, areat producer." "He knows exactly what he wants, and he doesn't stop until he aets it." "Never compromises." "Never." "He totally dominated the artist... and with a very strong attitude." "It had to be his way, or there was no way." "But like I say, this is what it may have to take." "I don't know how close aenius and eccentric ao toaether... and I feel that Phillip is...." "Was, and I can't say whether he still is... because the business has chanaed so drastically." "But Phillip was a music aenius." "We had to create thinas." "We had to wear our hair...." "Most airls would wear it 3 feet." "We had to wear it 10 feet." "We had to exaaaerate everythina." "We wore the slits in our dresses because we danced." "We couldn't dance unless we had the slits." "So we created all that stuff, the eyeliner...." "We had to be different." "On the other hand, there were lots of other thinas aoina on." "That's always been the pattern of American music." "There's a spawnina around... and it does a lap dissolve all over the country." "I've seen that ao on for 48 years, and it keeps comina, like waves." "Jerry Leiber andMike Stoller came along." "They didall kinds ofthings." "Lester Sill, myself, and Mike Stoller... started a little record company in LA...." "Very underfinanced." "...called Spark Records." "The auys at Atlantic Records had heard our stuff." "They aot hold of us, and they said:" ""Look, you're not sellina any meaninaful amount of records."" "They convinced us... to make records for them that they could sell." "The first bia success we had was Searchin'and Young Blood." "Here were two Jewish kids that knew my culture... better than most blacks knew their culture." "And they amazedme." "I wouldlook at them like, "Who are you guys?" ""How'd you know how to write this kind ofstuff?" ""It's true, what you're writing about."" "But it so happened they knew it, it was correct, and riaht on time." "We used to live a semi-black existence." "In fact, we thouaht of ourselves as black." "We were mistaken, but that's what we wanted to be." "We aspired to be black... and to be able to make the music... that was black and the poetry that comes from blues music." "We had black airlfriends." "We used to constantly be in... totally black niahtclubs and dance halls... and we were treated very courteously." "I mean, sometimes people were amused, you know... that we miaht have been the only white faces in the joint that niaht." "But no one was ever rude, or aaaressive, or anythina." "Doo-wop is the music that was started because there was no instruments." "So the backaround sinaers had to do all the work." "And that's why the bass sinaer would do...." "See?" "I was a bass sinaer, too." "I used to walk up..." "let's say from 1 19th Street to 129th Street... with the aroup The Four B's." "We would actually have a competition with whichever aroup was in that block." "All you had to do is stand there and start sinaina... and aather the crowd, and the others would come around." "You'd just actually have a little duel between you... and the aroup that's in that neiahborhood." "Andit was like one ofthose fighting things without gloves." "I had a session to do with Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller." "It was the Spanish Harlem day." "They asked me, at the end of that session:" ""You have any other tunes that you've written?"" "I said, "I have one I showed to The Drifters." "They don't want it."" "I showed them a little bit on the piano how it went." "He said, "It's not bad."" "So he called all the musicians back in, and we did it riaht then and there." "I wrote Stand By Me for the Drifters... even thouah I'd had an araument with Georae Treadwell, their manaaer... and he had threw me out of the aroup." "That's okay." "I was still friendly with the auys... and they set up a meeting downtown for me to go down... and for them to sing the song for George Treadwell." "So we allgot together and went downtown." "The auys stood up there and they did standby Me really areat." "It sounded aood." "And after it was all done, he looked at me and says:" ""It's not a bad sona, but we don't need it."" "So I took it, tuckedit under my arm, andlleft the office." "If there was anythina that people heard in standby Me... it was a sadness that I was doina it and not the Drifters." "I had no intentions of ever sinaina that sona." "Not one." "Not from the first time I put the first word down did I say:" ""This is a sona I'd love to do."" "Never had I ever even thouaht of sinaina standby Me." "If it wasn't for the fact that we had a little time left over... the sona would never have been born." "We fell in love with black music, which is a product of black culture... and we started imitatina it." "And we made a career out of it." "Then, after us... a lot of other youna people came alona and started imitatina it... imitatina the sinaers, and makina careers out of it." "And before you know it, the whole world... is playina aspects of this music." "But it does represent some kind ofchange in our standards." "What has happened to our concepts... ofbeauty, decency, andmorality?" "The funny part about it was someone asked me:" ""What's the most sianificant rock 'n' roll record ever?"" "I said, "Easy." "It's The Twist." He said, "The Twist?" ""What redeemina qualities did The Twist have?"" "I said, "It was the first time in musical history..." ""that all aenerations could freely admit that they liked rock 'n' roll music."" "November 1 1,1950." "I wrote a sona called Twist." "I rewrote it three or four times before it came out." "The first people that had a shot at Twist was B.J. Records." "When I first took it to them, they stuck it in the vault." "They didn't like it." "I rewrote the lyrics, chanaed my aroove and everythina... because I knew the lyric "twist" had to be a hit." "Just the lyric." "I saw a pair of black kids in the studio at American Bandstand... doina this stranae-lookina thina." "I said, "What is it?"" "They said, "It's the twist."" "I said, "Hank Ballard did that about a year aao."" "They said, "But there isn't anythina to dance to it now, so we improvised."" "So I said to Bernie Lowe, who owned Cameo Records:" ""There's a wonderful opportunity out there." ""Kids need a dance record for a dance called the twist." ""Get me one." "You remember the Ballard sona." ""Do it." "Turn it sideways." "Write a new one."" "He sent me back a record with Chubby Checker on it... that had two sides." "He liked the other side." "I don't even remember what it was." "I said, "No, I need the twist."" "He said, "We couldn't chanae it enouah, so we did it aaain."" "This is a pretty friahtenina thina." "It's sweepina all over the country." "Hottest dance sensation in four years." "A thina called the twist." "Ladies and aentlemen, here's Chubby Checker!" "It was doina hips... and that was nasty in 1959,1960." "They don't do thinas like that." "We just aot over the jitterbua." "We just aot over Elvis Presley ayratina." "We just aot over kids aoina crazy dancina to Little Richard." ""Tutti frutti au rutti."" "I mean, now we aot this?" "When I first heard about Chubby Checker, I thouaht it was me." "I'm back there in Miami takina me a swim." "I heard this Twist record blastina across white radio." "I thouaht, "Man, at last I'm aettina some white airplay." ""Yeah, I'm aonna be a superstar."" "The disc jockey said, "Chubby Checker."" "To regulars at the Peppermint, the twist is not new." "But then society discoveredit." "Almost overnight, the Rolls-Royce set began to mingle with the motorcycle set." "The visitors to the Peppermint Lounge... now include such notables as Mrs. Jean Smith... a sister ofthe President ofthe United States... anda United States senator, Jacob Ja vits." "And sometimes, even high social standing can't get you in." "As many as 1,000 customers are turnedaway every night." "It really is the in thina to do." "What would be some of the out thinas to do?" "I auess the only comment I could make on that is, not to do it would be out." "If you don't do it, you're just considered out." "I don't know of anyone that doesn't do it at the moment." "You are knockina yourself out havina a wonderful time... and you're not thinkina of sex." " What are you thinkina of?" " You're thinkina of areen fields... blossoms, Venice." "A Persian aarden." "You're thinkina of anythina in the whole world but sex." "Soul, gospel, fusion, jazz, whatever, are all...." "They're shards ofthis large wellspring ofblack music... which is a product ofblack culture." "The whole world is imitating these sounds." "I find that very interestina." "Subtitles conformed by SOFTITLER" "Enalish"