"CAPTIONING MADE POSSIBLE BY ACORN MEDIA" "HELLO." "I'M SUSAN SARANDON." "THIS IS THE FIRST PROGRAM" "IN THE SET OF 5 PROGRAMS OF "MYTHOS"" "IN WHICH JOSEPH CAMPBELL EXPLORES" "THE SPIRITUAL REALM OF THE EAST" "HINDUISM AND BUDDHISM." "JOE'S ENTHUSIASM FOR EASTERN RELIGION" "IS QUICKLY OBVIOUS," "BUT HE'S NO MISSIONARY." "HE DOESN'T WANT TO CONVERT YOU." "RATHER, BY EXPOSING US TO THE WAY" "IN WHICH RELIGIOUS IDEAS ARE INTERPRETED IN THE EAST," "HE HOPES TO ENRICH OUR OWN RELIGIOUS TRADITIONS." "WE SOMETIMES GAIN INSIGHT BY SEEING OURSELVES" "AS OTHERS SEE US." "SEEING THE RELIGIOUS SYMBOLS OF HINDUISM AND BUDDHISM" "THROUGH CAMPBELL'S EYES" "CAN GIVE US INSIGHTS INTO OUR OWN SPIRITUAL LIVES." "WE DON'T HAVE TO BECOME BUDDHISTS" "TO BE ENRICHED BY BUDDHISM." "WE ONLY NEED TO OPEN OUR EYES" "TO A DIFFERENT WAY OF LOOKING AT THE WORLD." "CAMPBELL BEGINS WITH THOSE" "UNIVERSAL THEMES OF THE HUMAN CONDITION" "WHICH UNITE US ALL." "WELL, MY PROJECT FOR THIS WEEKEND" "IS BASED ON A COUPLE OF SIMPLE IDEAS," "WHICH I THINK I SHOULD PRESENT AT THE OUTSET" "SO AS YOU'LL KNOW WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO." "THE FIRST IS THE IDEA THAT I'VE DISCUSSED HERE MANY TIMES" "OF THE GERMAN ANTHROPOLOGIST ADOLF BASTIAN, WHO RECOGNIZED" "THAT THROUGHOUT THE MYTHOLOGIES" "AND RELIGIOUS SYSTEMS OF THE WORLD," "THE SAME IMAGES, THE SAME THEMES WERE CONSTANTLY RECURRING," "APPEARING EVERYWHERE," "AND HE CALLED THESE "ELEMENTARY IDEAS."" "ELEMENTARGEDANKEN." "BUT HE RECOGNIZED ALSO THAT WHEREVER THEY OCCURRED," "THEY APPEARED IN DIFFERENT COSTUMES," "WITH DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS AND DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS." "AND THESE PROVINCIAL DIFFERENCES" "HE CALLED FOLK IDEAS OR ETHNIC IDEAS." "VOLKERGEDANKEN." "NOW, THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT DISTINCTION." "IT DIVIDES OUR WHOLE SUBJECT" "INTO TWO QUITE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS." "HISTORIANS AND ETHNOLOGISTS" "ARE INTERESTED IN THE DIFFERENCES," "AND ONE CAN STUDY THE MYTHOLOGIES" "AND PHILOSOPHIES OF THE WORLD" "WITH AN ACCENT ON THESE DIFFERENCES." "ON THE OTHER HAND, THE PROBLEM EMERGES" "OF THE ELEMENTARY IDEAS." "WHY ARE THEY EVERYWHERE?" "AND THIS IS A PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEM," "AND IT'S A PROBLEM THAT SEPARATES US" "IN OUR DISCUSSION OF COMPARATIVE FORMS" "FROM THE WHOLE RESEARCH HAVING TO DO WITH DIFFERENCES." "NOW, WHAT I WANT TO DO TODAY" "IS, IN GIVING THE STORY OF THE ORIENTAL SYSTEMS," "TO INSIST ON THE ELEMENTARY ASPECT." "THE SECOND IDEA THAT I HAVE IN MIND..." "IS AS FOLLOWS." "SOMEWHERE IN THE NINTH AND EIGHTH CENTURIES B.C..." "A SHIFT OF ACCENT TAKES PLACE, PARTICULARLY IN THE ORIENT..." "WHERE, INSTEAD OF SIMPLY PRESENTING THE IMAGES," "THE IMAGES ARE INTERPRETED." "THAT'S TO SAY WE'RE GOING TO TURN" "FROM SIMPLY WHAT MIGHT BE CALLED VISUAL AND ACTIVE RELATIONSHIP" "TO THE FORMS OF MYTH, THROUGH THE IMAGERY OF MYTH," "AND THE RITUALS THROUGH WHICH THE MYTH IS RENDERED INTO LIFE." "THERE WAS A TURN TO THINKING ABOUT THESE THINGS," "INTERPRETING THEM." "AND SO THE ORIENTAL PHILOSOPHIES" "ACTUALLY REPRESENT A DISCOURSE" "INTERPRETING THE ELEMENTARY IDEAS." "NOW, WHAT HAPPENED IN THE WEST" "FOLLOWING THE PERIOD OF ARISTOTLE, PARTICULARLY," "WAS A GRADUAL ATTACK ON THE MYTHOLOGICAL IDEA" "SO THAT CRITICISM IN THE WEST" "TENDED TO SEPARATE ITSELF FROM THE ELEMENTARY IDEAS." "HOWEVER, THERE IS AN UNDERCURRENT" "THROUGHOUT THE WESTERN THINKING, ALSO," "THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH GNOSTICISM, ALCHEMY," "AND MANY OF THE DISCREDITED MANNERS OF THOUGHT," "THAT CARRIES ON THIS INTEREST IN" "WHAT MIGHT BE CALLED A PERENNIAL." "NOW, I'M THINKING OF THE PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY" "AS IT HAS BEEN EXPOUNDED," "PARTICULARLY BY ANANDA K. COOMARASWAMY," "AND PICKED UP, I THINK IT WAS DURING THE FORTIES," "BY ALDOUS HUXLEY IN THAT WORK OF HIS "THE PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY."" "I'M THINKING OF THIS AS A TRANSLATION" "INTO VERBAL DISCOURSE OF THE IMPLICATIONS" "OF THE MYTHIC IMAGES." "AND THAT'S WHY THERE CAN BE FOUND," "IN THE MYSTICAL PHILOSOPHIES THROUGHOUT THE WORLD," "THE SAME IDEAS RECURRING." "THE CONTINUITIES THAT WE CAN RECOGNIZE IN MYTH" "COME OVER INTO PHILOSOPHY." "AND THIS IS WHAT IS KNOWN AS THE PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY." "NOW, MYTH COMES FROM THE SAME ZONE AS DREAM..." "AND THIS IS THE ZONE OF WHAT I WOULD CALL THE WISDOM BODY." "WHEN YOU GO TO SLEEP, IT'S THE BODY THAT'S TALKING..." "AND WHAT THE BODY IS MOVED BY," "ENERGIES THAT IT DOES NOT CONTROL." "THESE ARE THE ENERGIES THAT CONTROL THE BODY." "THEY COME IN FROM..." "THE GREAT BIOLOGICAL GROUND," "WHATEVER IT MAY BE." "PROTOPLASM." "THEY'RE THERE." "THEY'RE ENERGIES AND THEY ARE MANNERS OF CONSCIOUSNESS." "BUT WE ALSO HAVE IN THIS BODY" "THIS AFFAIR UP HERE, OF THE HEAD," "AND IT HAS A SYSTEM OF THINKING OF ITS OWN." "AND THERE'S A WHOLE MANNER OF CONSCIOUSNESS" "THAT STEMS FROM THE HEAD SET..." "AND IT IS DIFFERENT IN ITS KNOWLEDGE" "FROM THAT OF THE BODY." "WHEN THE BABY IS BORN, IT KNOWS JUST WHAT TO DO" "WITH ITS MOTHER'S BODY." "IT IS READY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT INTO WHICH IT'S PUT." "IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE INSTRUCTED." "THESE THINGS HAPPEN." "AND THIS IS THE WORK OF THE WISDOM BODY." "ALSO, THAT SAME WISDOM BROUGHT THE LITTLE THING" "INTO FORM IN ITS MOTHER'S BODY." "IT WAS SHAPED BY THESE ENERGIES THAT LIVE IN US" "AND OF WHICH WE ARE THE CARNAL MANIFESTATION." "THIS WISDOM OF THE DREAM, WISDOM OF THE VISION," "IS THE WISDOM, THEN, OF THE PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY." "WHEN YOU DREAM, YOUR WAKING CONSCIOUSNESS ASPECT" "DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE DREAM," "SO YOU HAVE TO GO TO A PSYCHOANALYST" "WHO DOESN'T UNDERSTAND IT, EITHER." "[AUDIENCE LAUGHS]" "[CLEARS THROAT] THE INTERPRETATION IS GRADUAL" "AND IT COMES FROM AN EXPLORATION BY THE HEAD" "OF YOUR OWN WISDOM." "AND SO WE FIND THAT THERE IS A KIND OF RADICAL DISTINCTION" "BETWEEN THE PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY AND ITS MODE AND ITS AXIOMS." "QUITE DIFFERENT FROM THE AXIOMS AND MODE OF THE RATIONAL SYSTEM." "AND IT'S OUT OF THAT OTHER THAT I WANT TO TRY TO TALK TODAY." "NOW, AS I SAY," "THE INTERPRETATION OF THE MYTHIC FORMS" "WENT FORWARD IN GREAT STYLE," "PRINCIPALLY IN INDIA, VERY EARLY," "AND SO IT'S THROUGH REVIEWING THE MYTHOLOGIES" "AND THE INTERPRETATIONS OF THE MYTHS," "IN INDIA AND THEN IN CHINA AND JAPAN..." "THAT I PROPOSE TO INTRODUCE US TO WHAT I TAKE TO BE" "THE GROUND THINKING OF THE PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY." "AND SO WHILE I WANT TO GIVE A SENSE" "OF THE RICHNESS AND WONDER OF THE ETHNIC ASPECT" "OF THE ORIENTAL SYSTEM," "MY PRINCIPAL INTEREST TODAY" "IS IN EXTRACTING FROM THEM THE ELEMENTAL," "NOT ACCENTING THE ETHNIC BUT EXTRACTING THE ELEMENTAL." "SO THAT'S WHAT I'M GOING TO TRY TO BRING FORWARD." "HERE WE ARE ON THE GANGES..." "AND ON THE SHORE THERE IS BENARES." "THE IDEA OF THE SACRED RIVER" "THE JORDAN, THE WATERS THAT FALL FROM HEAVEN" "IT THEN BECOMES TRANSLATED INTO THE IDEA" "OF THE GRACE, OF THE DIVINE," "FLOWING INEXHAUSTIBLY OUT OF SOME SOURCE." "AND IN INDIA, AT THE VERY SOURCE OF THE GANGES," "UP IN THE HIMALAYAN AREA," "IT'S A VERY SACRED PLACE, AND IF ONE GOES THERE," "THERE ARE YOGIS ALL AROUND PRACTICING YOGA," "GETTING CLOSE TO THE SOURCE, LITERALLY." "ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH SYMBOLS," "AND IT'S THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH SYMBOLS," "IS THAT PEOPLE TEND TO GET LOST IN THE SYMBOL," "SO THEY THINK THEY HAVE TO GO UP TO THE HEAD OF THE GANGES" "IN ORDER TO GET TO THE SOURCE." "THE PROBLEM IN MYTH, THE PROBLEM IN MYSTICISM, IS" "THAT YOU SHOULD NOT LOSE THE MESSAGE IN THE SYMBOL." "THE MESSAGE ALWAYS IS OF THE SPIRIT." "AND WHEN THE SYMBOL IS TAKEN TO BE THE FACT," "SO THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO HARDWAR" "IN ORDER TO GET TO THE SOURCE OF THE GANGES," "YOU'VE MISTAKEN THE MESSAGE." "THERE'S A SIMILAR MISTAKE MADE IN THE NOTION" "THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO ISRAEL TO GET TO THE PROMISED LAND." "THIS CONCRETIZATION IS ONE OF THE MAJOR" "WHAT CAN I SAY--DECEPTIONS" "IN THE WESTERN HANDLING OF SYMBOLS." "AND IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY" "WE'VE LOST TOUCH WITH THE ELEMENTARY IDEA" "AND THE PERENNIAL MESSAGES." "THE CONCRETIZATION OF THE SYMBOL," "THE NOTION, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT GOD IS A FACT." "THE GOD IDEA IS A SYMBOL." "ANYTHING THAT CAN BE NAMED AND REGARDED AS A FORM" "IS A SYMBOL." "THERE'S A WONDERFUL SAYING OF GERHART HAUPTMANN," "THE GREAT GERMAN POET." "[SPEAKING GERMAN]" ""WRITING POETRY CONSISTS IN LETTING" "THE WORD BE HEARD BEHIND WORDS."" "THE WHOLE WORLD OF SYMBOLS, GOETHE'S WORD AGAIN" "[SPEAKING GERMAN]" ""EVERYTHING THAT IS TRANSITORY IS BUT A REFERENCE."" "BUT THE REFERENCE ISN'T TO ANY THING," "IT'S TO WHAT IS CALLED THE VOID, SUNYATA," "AND IT'S CALLED THE VOID BECAUSE NO THOUGHT CAN REACH IT." "AND SO WHAT THESE SYMBOLS ARE TALKING ABOUT" "IS SOMETHING THAT CAN'T BE TALKED ABOUT." "AND THEY HAVE TO BECOME TRANSPARENT," "THEY HAVE TO OPEN." "AND WHAT WE FIND THEN IS THAT" "THE ETHNIC OPENS TO THE ELEMENTARY." "AND ONE OF OUR PROBLEMS," "AND THESE ARE THE 2 GREAT SOURCES NOW" "OF THE PROBLEM HERE IN WESTERN INTERPRETATION OF THESE MATTERS," "WE HAVE THE ARISTOTELIAN ACCENT ON RATIONAL THINKING" "AND WE HAVE THE BIBLICAL ASPECT ON THE ETHNIC REFERENCE" "OF THE MYTHIC SYMBOL." "THESE TWO PIN US DOWN TO THE WORLD OF FACTS" "AND RATIONAL COGITATION," "BUT FROM THIS OTHER STANDPOINT," "THOSE ARE EXACTLY WHAT HAVE TO BE TRANSCENDED." "THEY HAVE TO BE RENDERED TRANSPARENT AND NOT OPAQUE." "SO I'M GOING TO TRY TO SEE" "THE WHOLE HINDU SYSTEM IN THAT WAY" "AND BY COMPARISON, REFER OVER TO OUR WESTERN THEMES." "HERE IS THE IDEA OF THE JORDAN..." "AND BAPTISM, BATHING, GOING INTO THE RIVER," "TAKING OF THE GRACE." "BUT ONE HAS TO ACCOMPANY THE ACT WITH A MEDIATION ON ITS SENSE." "THEN WE HAVE THE IDEA OF THE SACRED CITY," "THE CITY AT THE SACRED PLACE WHERE THE GRACE FLOWS," "AND THAT, OF COURSE, IS BENARES." "BENARES IS THE CITY OF SHIVA," "WHO IS PROBABLY THE OLDEST WORSHIPED GOD" "IN THE HIGH CULTURE SYSTEMS OF THE WORLD." "THIS IS SHIVA'S CITY AND THERE'S" "HERE A GOOD DEAL ABOUT HIM TODAY." "THIS NOW IS--WE'LL COME CLOSE TO LAND--THE CITY OF BENARES." "IT'S A FANTASTIC MESS." "JUST A JUNGLE OF TEMPLES." "ALL KINDS." "AND PEOPLE COME THERE TO DIE" "BECAUSE--LITERAL READING OF THE SYMBOL" "WHEN YOU'RE CLOSER TO GANGES," "YOU'RE CLOSE TO THE DIVINE GRACE," "AND IT'S ONLY A SHORT STEP, THEN, TO HEAVEN." "SO, WE FIND THEM MAKING THEMSELVES SICK, YOU MIGHT SAY," "BY BATHING IN THIS FILTHY WATER." "ONLY A LITTLE BIT UP THE WAY, THEY'RE BURNING BODIES" "AND THROWING THEM INTO THE GANGES," "WHICH IS A GOOD PLACE TO GO," "READING THE SYMBOL LITERALLY AGAIN." "IT'S A GREAT PILGRIMAGE PLACE." "THE WHOLE IDEA OF PILGRIMAGE." "THERE IT'S TRANSLATING INTO A LITERAL PHYSICAL ACT." "THE PILGRIMAGE OF MOVING INTO THE CENTER OF YOUR OWN HEART." "IT'S GOOD TO MAKE A PILGRIMAGE IF, WHILE DOING SO," "YOU MEDITATE ON WHAT YOU'RE DOING" "AND KNOW THAT IT'S INTO YOUR INWARD LIFE" "THAT YOU'RE MOVING." "AND HERE WE HAVE AT THE GHATS" "THE PEOPLE BATHING IN THE GANGES." "IT'S A CONSTANT, AS IT WERE, BAPTISM RITE." "GOING IN, ABSOLVING," "THEN THE VIRTUE OF THIS MIRACULOUS GIFT OF THE UNIVERSE," "THE WATERS OF THE GANGES." "THE GANGES ACTUALLY IS A GODDESS--GANGA" "AND THIS FLOWING WATER IS THE GRACE THAT COMES TO US" "FROM THE POWER OF THE FEMALE POWER," "WHICH WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT LATER." "IN JOYCE'S "FINNEGAN'S WAKE," HE USES THE SAME IMAGE" "FOR THE RIVER LIFFEY, WHICH FLOWS THROUGH DUBLIN," "AND DUBLIN ON THE RIVER LIFFEY" "HAS ACTUALLY BECOME PART OF BENARES ON THE GANGES." "AND THE WHOLE SECRET OF RELATING" "MYTHOLOGY AND THE SPIRITUAL LIFE TO YOUR ENVIRONMENT" "IS HERE INVOLVED." "WHAT'S CALLED LANDNAM BY THE PEOPLE IN ICELAND," "NAMING AND CLAIMING, THROUGH NAMING, THE LANDSCAPE." "LAND TAKING." "YOU READ THE LAND THAT YOU'RE LIVING IN AS THE HOLY LAND." "THERE WAS A VERY INTERESTING LETTER IN THE "TIMES" YESTERDAY" "FROM A YOUNG JEWISH BOY" "WHO ATTESTED AGAINST THE IDEA OF HAVING TO BE THOUGHT OF" "AS IN THE DIASPORA, HAVING LEFT THE HOLY LAND." "HE SAID, "MY COUNTRY, MY LAND IS HERE, IN THE UNITED STATES," ""AND I HAVE NOT BEEN FORCED TO BE HERE," "AND IT'S MY CHOICE AND PLEASURE TO NAME THIS MY HOLY LAND."" "I THOUGHT THIS WAS A WONDERFUL STATEMENT" "OF THE PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE IN DISENGAGING OURSELVES" "FROM WHAT MIGHT BE CALLED TRADITIONAL INHERITANCE" "THAT TENDS TO CONCRETIZE ITS OWN SYMBOL SYSTEM." "HE HAD RELEASED HIMSELF AND FOUND" "THE WHOLE SENSE OF THE HOLY LAND IN HIS OWN PLACE." "AND SO JOYCE DOES THIS WITH THE RIVER AND THE CITY." "HIS HOLY LAND, YOU MIGHT SAY," "WAS DUBLIN, AS OURS IS NEW YORK ON THE HUDSON," "BUT WE HAVE SO SECULARIZED THE THING," "YOU WON'T EVEN GET TO LAUGH" "THINKING OF THE HUDSON AS A GIFT OF DIVINE GRACE." "THIS IS WHAT'S HAPPENED." "I'M HERE IN NEW YORK AND I MUST TELL YOU," "AS MUCH AS I LOVE MANHATTAN," "IT'S HARD TO THINK OF IT AS THE HOLY LAND," "AND THIS GETS TO THE HEART OF WHAT JOE'S TALKING ABOUT." "WE NEED SYMBOLS TO FOCUS OUR SPIRITUAL LIVES" "A HOLY LAND, A SACRED RIVER." "BUT ONCE WE HAVE THEM, WE'RE IN DANGER" "OF CONCENTRATING THAT FOCUS" "TO THE POINT OF LOSING THE MESSAGE IN THE SYMBOL." "IT'S LIKE THOSE ILLUSTRATIONS WHICH HAVE ONE IMAGE," "SAY, A HORSE EMBEDDED IN A REPETITIVE PATTERN" "OF OTHER IMAGES." "IF YOU STARE TOO INTENTLY AT THE PATTERN," "YOU NEVER SEE THE HORSE," "BUT IF YOU LET YOUR FOCUS SHIFT, AND SOME PEOPLE NEVER CAN," "THE HORSE APPEARS." "ONE THING IS CERTAIN-- THE RELIGIOUS FOCUS" "OF HINDUISM AND BUDDHISM" "IS DIFFERENT FROM THAT OF WESTERN RELIGIONS." "TO UNDERSTAND THIS DIFFERENCE, CAMPBELL LOOKS BACK" "TO THE EARLIEST CIVILIZATIONS IN INDIA." "Campbell:" "AND NOW I GO BACK 2,000--WOW, 4,000 YEARS." "THIS IS AT MOHENJO-DARO IN THE INDUS VALLEY" "IN NORTHWEST INDIA." "IT'S A BATHING PLACE." "MOHENJO-DARO IS ONE OF A LITTLE CLUSTER OF SMALL CITIES" "THIS IS ONE OF THE 2 LARGEST" "THAT EMERGE IN INDIA, 2,000 B.C." "AND NOW WE COME TO THE HISTORICAL MATTER." "ALREADY IN THIS INDUS VALLEY CIVILIZATION" "AND ALSO CALLED THE DRAVIDIAN CIVILIZATION," "ALSO CALLED THE MOHENJO-DARO CIVILIZATION," "ALSO CALLED THE HARAPPA CIVILIZATION" "SEE, NAMES DON'T MATTER." "THE REFERENCE." "WE HAVE THE EMERGENCE OF A CULTURE" "OF THE STYLE OF ANCIENT CRETE AND MESOPOTAMIA." "IT'S CONTEMPORARY WITH THOSE WORLDS--2,000 B.C." "AND ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT BUILDINGS IN THIS RUINED CITY" "IS A BATH, A PUBLIC BATH," "AND IT'S ASSUMED THAT THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS" "HAD RELIGIOUS MEANING OR VALUE," "AND THAT A CONTINUITY FROM THAT" "IS WHAT WE MEET WHEN WE COME TO THE GANGES." "IT'S A CONTINUOUS THING FOR 4,000 YEARS" "THE SACRED WATER, THE BATHING IN THE SACRED WATER." "BENARES IS HERE ON THE GANGES." "DEEP INTO INDIA, AS WE COME IN FROM THE WEST." "MESOPOTAMIA--THE RIVERS TIGRIS AND EUPHRATES--IS HERE." "IT IS IN THIS AREA THAT THE FIRST" "CITY CIVILIZATIONS OF THE WORLD APPEAR," "AND THEY APPEAR AROUND 3,500 B.C." "IT'S BECOMING CLEARER AND CLEARER, I THINK," "THAT ALL OF THE HIGH CIVILIZATIONS OF THE WORLD" "ARE REFLECTIONS FROM THIS SOURCE." "3,500 B.C. IN MESOPOTAMIA;" "2,500 B.C. IN THE INDUS AREA;" "1,500 B.C. WITH THE SHANG DYNASTY IN CHINA;" "AND THEN IT JUMPS THE OCEAN AND IN MEXICO AND PERU," "WE HAVE THE OLMEC AND CHAVIN PHENOMENA OF ABOUT 1,200 B.C." "AND IT'S OUT OF THESE" "THAT THE HIGH CIVILIZATION SYSTEMS COME," "AND WHEN WE SPEAK OF HIGH CIVILIZATIONS," "WE SPEAK OF A CIVILIZATION IN WHICH THERE IS," "EXCEPT IN ONE CASE, WRITING," "AND IN EVERY CASE, DEVELOPED MATHEMATICS" "AND EXTREME ATTENTION TO THE CYCLES OF THE PLANET" "THROUGH THE CONSTELLATIONS." "THIS CYCLING OF THE PLANETS THROUGH THE CONSTELLATIONS" "IS THE GREAT CRITICAL FACTOR" "IN THE TRANSFORMATION OF CONSCIOUSNESS AT THIS TIME." "BECAUSE OF WRITING, AND BECAUSE OF MATHEMATICS," "IT BECAME POSSIBLE TO MAKE RECORDS, PRECISE RECORDS," "OF THE PASSAGE OF THE PLANETS THROUGH THE CONSTELLATIONS." "AND IN MESOPOTAMIA AS EARLY AS 3,200 B.C. APPARENTLY," "IT BECAME EVIDENT THAT THE PLANETS WERE MOVING" "AT A MATHEMATICALLY PREDICTABLE RATE," "AND THE NOTION OF A COSMIC ORDER," "THE ORDER OF THE COSMOS," "COMES INTO EXPRESSION." "AND WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MYTHOLOGY AND RITUALS..." "THEY USUALLY TALK ABOUT IT FROM THE STANDPOINT" "OF MODERN MENTALITY..." "AND THEY SPEAK ABOUT FINDING THE CAUSES OF THE WORLD," "ORIGIN MYTHS AND SO FORTH." "EXPLANATORY MYTHS, WHAT ARE CALLED ETIOLOGICAL MYTHS." "THAT'S NOT WHAT MYTHS ARE ABOUT." "MYTHS DO NOT HAVE TO DO WITH ANALYZING" "AND SCIENTIFICALLY DISCOVERING CAUSES." "MYTHS HAVE TO DO WITH RELATING" "THE HUMAN BEING TO HIS ENVIRONMENT," "AND HIS ENVIRONMENT, BEFORE THE DISCOVERY" "OF THESE GREAT PLANETARY MOVEMENTS," "WAS LARGELY THE ENVIRONMENT OF THE ANIMAL AND PLANT WORLDS." "SO THE VERY EARLY MYTHOLOGIES HAVE TO DO" "WITH RELATING TO THE ANIMAL WORLD," "AND THE PROBLEM THERE IS THE ANIMAL IS RESPECTED" "AND THE ANIMAL IS NEVERTHELESS KILLED AND EATEN," "AND THE PROBLEM OF RECOGNIZING WHAT MIGHT BE CALLED" "A COVENANT BETWEEN THE ANIMAL WORLD AND THE HUMAN WORLD," "AND RECOGNIZING THE MIRACLE OF LIFE," "WHICH LIVES BY KILLING AND EATING LIFE..." "IS A MAJOR PROBLEM THAT HAS TO BE SOLVED" "RELATING THE MIND TO THIS ACT" "OF CONTINUALLY KILLING AND CONSUMING," "WEARING THE SKINS OF THE ANIMALS," "LIVING IN TENTS MADE OF THEM, AND SO FORTH AND SO ON." "THAT'S ONE ASPECT." "THE OTHER IS THE PLANT WORLD." "AGAIN, YOU'RE KILLING AND EATING LIFE." "AND BOTH THE ANIMAL AND THE PLANT" "ARE, LIKE THE RIVER GANGES," "POURING INTO THE WORLD FOR YOUR SUSTENANCE," "AND ARE REVERED, AND THEY BECOME THE REVERED" "POWERS AND SYMBOLS TO WHICH MAN MUST RELATE HIMSELF." "BUT THEN COMES THIS DISCOVERY OF THE GREAT CYCLES OF THE HEAVENS," "AND WHAT YOU'LL FIND IS A GREAT CONCERN" "TO RELATE THE WHOLE ORGANIZATION OF THE SOCIETY" "TO THIS CYCLING." "A TREMENDOUS ACCENT ON SEASONAL FESTIVALS." "THESE FESTIVALS ARE NOT MEANT TO CONTROL NATURE," "THEY'RE MEANT TO PUT YOU IN ACCORD WITH NATURE," "AND WHEN YOU ARE IN ACCORD WITH NATURE," "NATURE WILL YIELD ITS BOUNTY." "THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S COMING UP" "IN OUR OWN CONSCIOUSNESS NOW," "IN THE ECOLOGY MOVEMENT," "RECOGNIZING THAT BY VIOLATING" "THE ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH WE ARE LIVING," "WE ARE REALLY CUTTING OFF THE ENERGY AND THE SOURCE" "OF OUR OWN LIVING." "AND IT'S THIS SENSE OF ACCORD" "SO THAT LIVING PROPERLY" "IN RELATION TO WHAT HAS TO BE DONE IN THIS WORLD," "ONE FOSTERS THE VITALITY OF THE ENVIRONMENT." "AND SO THERE YOU HAVE THIS-- THERE'S AN ACCORD" "WITH THE NATURAL WORLD." "WELL, WHEN THE GREAT COSMIC ORDER WAS DISCOVERED," "THE PROBLEM OF COMING INTO ACCORD WITH THAT" "BECOMES THE HIGH SYSTEM," "AND WE HAVE AN ECHO OF IT IN THE PRAYER" ""THY WILL BE DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN."" "THE HEAVENLY SIGNS BECAME THE SIGNS" "OF THE ORDER OF THE GREAT SPIRITUAL WORLD." "AND NOW, OF COURSE, WE'RE MOVING PAST THAT," "SINCE WE'RE SENDING ROCKETS UP THERE," "AND THEN HAVE WALKED ON THE MOON," "WHICH WAS THE FIRST SPIRITUAL LIGHT, YOU MIGHT SAY," "AND WHAT WE'RE LEARNING IS THAT THE SEPARATION" "OF SPIRIT AND EARTH" "HAS BEEN TRANSCENDED," "THAT THESE TWO, IN SOME SENSE," "ARE MUCH MORE ONE THAN THE DUALISM" "OF OUR INHERITED PHILOSOPHY WOULD SUGGEST." "SO MUCH FOR THE FIRST STAGE IN THIS WHOLE STORY." "AT THE TIME OF THE EMERGENCE" "OF THE HIGH CIVILIZATIONS IN THE RIVER VALLEYS," "THERE WERE RANGING IN THE GREAT" "GRAZING PLAINS OF SOUTHERN EUROPE" "NOMADIC CATTLE-HERDING PEOPLE." "THESE ARE KNOWN AS THE INDO-EUROPEANS," "ALSO KNOWN AS THE ARYANS." "ARYAN IS A SANSKRIT WORD MEANING "NOBLES."" "WHAT I'M GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT" "IS THE ROLE OF THESE PEOPLE IN INDIA." "THESE ARE THE VEDIC ARYANS." "THEY COME INTO INDIA, PERSIA, AND INTO EUROPE." "AND NOW WHAT I WANT TO DO FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE TIME" "YES--IS TO TELL YOU OF THE GREAT SPIRITUAL CRISIS" "THAT OCCURRED IN INDIA AFTER THE ARRIVAL" "OF THE INDO-EUROPEANS." "THIS IS WHEN WE BEGIN TO TRANSLATE MYTH INTO PHILOSOPHY." "THE SACRED BOOKS OF INDIA-- THE FUNDAMENTAL SACRED BOOKS" "ARE KNOWN AS THE VEDAS." "THE WORD "VEDA" IS FROM A SANSKRIT ROOT "VID"--V-I-D" "THAT MEANS "KNOWLEDGE."" "AND THE VEDAS ARE MANIFESTATIONS OF KNOWLEDGE." "AND THE KNOWLEDGE IS A SPECIFIC KIND OF KNOWLEDGE." "IT'S CALLED SHRUTI, AND "SHRUTI" MEANS "HEARD."" "THE RISHIS, OR SAINTS, WERE PEOPLE WHO DID NOT INVENT" "THE POEMS, THE HYMNS, OF THE VEDAS." "THE VEDAS ARE COLLECTIONS OF HYMNS." "THEY HEARD THEM." "JUST AS ANYONE WHO LISTENS TO THE NEWS WILL HEAR," "YOU CAN WRITE EITHER OUT OF YOUR OWN INTENTION" "OR OUT OF INSPIRATION." "THERE IS SUCH A THING." "IT COMES UP AND TALKS." "AND THOSE WHO HAVE HEARD DEEPLY" "THE RHYTHMS AND HYMNS AND WORDS OF THE GODS." "CAN RECITE THOSE HYMNS IN SUCH A WAY" "THAT THE GODS WILL BE ATTRACTED." "SO THAT THE VEDAS ARE BOOKS OF HYMNS" "AND THESE HYMNS FORM THE SUBSTANCE OF THE RITUALS" "BY WHICH THE POWERS OF NATURE, PERSONIFIED AS THE GODS," "ARE INVOKED TO THE SUPPORT OF THE INTENTIONS" "OF THE ARYAN SOCIETY." "YOU INVOKE THE GODS TO DO YOUR WILL." "AND SO THE CHARACTERISTIC LEADERSHIP OF THESE TRIBES" "IS ONE OF A WARRIOR LEADER AND THE OTHER OF A MAGICIAN," "OF THE RISHI WHO CAN INVOKE THE GODS." "SO WE HAVE 2 KINDS OF POWER GOING." "THESE ARE THE TWIN HEROES." "YOU HAVE A SIMILAR THING IN THE EARLY PART OF EXODUS," "WHERE YOU HAVE MOSES AND AARON," "THE WARRIOR CHIEF AND THE PRIEST." "BUT AT A CERTAIN IMPORTANT MOMENT," "THE WARRIOR CHIEF HAD THE HIGHER REVELATION." "HE WENT UP MOUNT SINAI" "AND THE GOD WITH THE FORMS OF LIGHT" "SPOKE TO HIM A NEW MESSAGE," "AND WHEN HE CAME DOWN, THERE WAS POOR AARON," "STILL WORSHIPPING BULLS.." "THE OLD SYMBOL OF THE CYCLE OF TIME." "AND MOSES THEN GOES TO WORK." "GETS ANGRY AND BREAKS THE LAWS." "GOES BACK, GETS THE SECOND EDITION, COMES BACK AGAIN," "AND THEN TAKES PLACE-- I WANT TO BRING THIS UP" "TAKES PLACE A VERY INTERESTING RITUAL." "HE GRINDS UP THE GOLDEN BULL AND MIXES IT WITH WATER" "AND MAKES EVERYBODY TAKE A COMMUNITY MEAL." "DID YOU EVER NOTICE THAT?" "THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS THERE." "AND THEN FROM THEN ON, OF COURSE," "ARYAN AARON IS OUT AND MOSES IN THE TWO ROLES." "AND SO OUT OF THAT TRADITION, WE HAVE" "THE SAME KIND OF THING THAT COMES WITH THE CALIPHS" "OF THE ISLAMIC WORLD," "WHERE THE SPIRITUAL RULER AND THE POLITICAL RULER" "ARE THE SAME RULER." "THESE 2 THINGS ARE BROUGHT VERY CLOSELY TOGETHER," "SO THAT THE SPIRIT AND THE SOCIETY" "ARE VERY CLOSELY UNITED." "[CLEARS THROAT] WELL, THE HYMNS INVOKE THE GODS," "AND THEN THE ALTARS ARE SET UP FOR THE RITUALS." "NOW, FOR A SET OF PEOPLE, IT'S POSSIBLE TO WORSHIP" "IN TERMS OF THE PLACE WHERE YOU LIVE." "THIS PARTICULAR GROVE IS THE SACRED GROVE," "AND WE GO THERE TO GET THE INSPIRATION" "OF THE POWERS OF NATURE THAT ARE EXPERIENCED THERE." "OR THIS POND, OR THIS PARTICULAR OLD TREE," "OR THIS STRANGE, INTERESTING ROCK." "BUT WHEN YOU ARE A NOMADIC PEOPLE," "YOUR WORSHIP HAS TO BE TO THAT WHICH IS EVERYWHERE." "NOW, THE HEBREWS HAD THE ARK," "WHICH IS--I MEAN, IN ANTHROPOLOGICAL LANGUAGE," "A FETISH THAT'S CARRIED ABOUT WITH THE DIVINE POWER IN IT." "THE ARYANS WORSHIPPED THE SUN, WHICH IS SEEN EVERYWHERE." "THE POWERS OF THE WIND;" "CLOUDS;" "BROAD, SPREADING EARTH..." "AND THEY WOULD SET UP THEIR ALTARS" "AS SYMBOLIC REPRESENTATIONS" "OF THE NATURE OF THE UNIVERSE," "OF THE ORDER AND FORM OF THE UNIVERSE." "THEN THEY WOULD INVOKE THE DEITIES," "WHO WOULD COME, AS IT WERE, SITTING AROUND," "LIKE BIRDS ON TREES WAITING TO BE FED," "BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A SHARED FEAST." "THE FIRE--AGNI, THE GOD OF FIRE" "WOULD BE THE MOUTH OF THE GODS," "AND THE OFFERINGS WOULD BE POURED INTO THE FIRE," "AND THEN AGNI WOULD TAKE THEM LIKE A MOTHER BIRD TAKES A WORM" "AND FEEDS ALL THE GODS." "SO, THIS LITTLE, SOCIAL, INVISIBLE SOCIETY" "IS TO BE THOUGHT OF." "THE GREEKS WERE DOING THE SAME THING." "THEY ALSO WERE ARYANS, THEY ALSO HAD THEIR ALTARS," "THEY ALSO HAD THEIR PRIESTS, THEY ALSO HAD THEIR RITUALS," "THEIR OFFERINGS, AND SO FORTH AND SO ON." "SO, THOSE ARE THE VEDAS." "AND AS THE VEDAS ARE NOW IN BOOKS" "THEY WERE NOT TURNED INTO WRITING" "FOR MANY, MANY CENTURIES" "THEY WERE KNOWN ORALLY AND COMMUNICATED ORALLY." "THEY ARE--IN THE FORM THAT WE NOW HAVE THEM," "THEY'RE DATED FROM ABOUT 1,000 B.C." "THAT'S THE FIRST STAGE." "THAT'S THE STAGE OF MYTH AND RITUAL." "THEN COME A SET OF BOOKS," "AND NOW HERE'S A BIG TURNING POINT," "KNOWN AS THE BRAHMANAS." "B-R-A-H-M-A-N-A-S." "BRAHMANAS--THE BOOKS OF THE BRAHMANS." "THE WORD "BRAHMAN" IS WRITTEN B-R-A-H-M-A-N," "BUT THE FIRST "A" IS A LONG "A,"" "AND THAT LONG "A" MEANS "RELATED TO."" "THE BRAHMANS ARE THE PRIESTS" "AND THEY ARE RELATED TO BRAHMAN," "B-R-A-H-M-A-N, WITHOUT A LONG "A."" "IT'S A NEUTER NOUN, AND IT MEANS BRR." "IT MEANS "ENERGY."" "THAT'S THE DIVINE ENERGY, THE BRAHMAN." "BRAHMAN IS NO DEITY." "DEITIES ARE PERSONIFICATIONS" "OF ASPECTS OF BRAHMAN," "AND SO ARE YOU, AND SO IS THE WORLD." "THE BRAHMANS ARE THOSE WHO ARE" "IN TOUCH WITH THE ENERGY OF BRAHMAN." "AND THEY GO TO WORK TO INTERPRET THE MEANING OF THE SACRIFICE." "NOW, THESE BRAHMANAS ARE VERY DREARY BOOKS TO READ." "THEY'RE PEDANTIC DISCUSSIONS OF THE SACRIFICE," "WHAT IT CONSISTS OF," "WHAT THE DIFFERENT LADLES ARE LIKE, AND SO FORTH AND SO ON," "BUT IT COMES TO THIS FINAL POINT:" "WHAT IS THE NATURE OF THE SACRIFICE?" "AND IT'S TERRIBLY IMPORTANT, BECAUSE THROUGH THE SACRIFICE," "WE INFLUENCE THE GODS." "THIS IS THE ARGUMENT NOW." "THEREFORE, THE SACRIFICE IS STRONGER THAN THE GODS," "BUT WHO OPERATES THE SACRIFICE?" "THE BRAHMANS." "THEREFORE, THE BRAHMANS ARE STRONGER THAN THE GODS." "THEREFORE, AN ILLUMINATED MAN IS STRONGER THAN ANY DEITY." "THIS IS THE GREAT THING IN THE UNIVERSE," "AND THIS IS WHAT THE BRAHMAN IS." "[INDISTINCT]" "SO HE CONTROLS THE GODS THROUGH THE SACRIFICE." "THE SACRIFICE IS ALMOST LIKE THE CONSOLE OF A GREAT ORGAN." "THERE SITS THE BRAHMAN AND HE'S MANIPULATING THE KEYS" "AND THE WHOLE WORLD SINGS ACCORDING TO HIS PLAY." "WHAT IS THE NATURE OF THE SACRIFICE THAT IT DOES THIS?" "THE NATURE OF THE SACRIFICE IS" "YOU'RE POURING A OFFERING INTO A FIRE." "NOW, WHEN YOU TAKE FOOD TO YOUR MOUTH," "YOU'RE POURING AN OFFERING INTO A FIRE." "AS THE HINDU SAY, THE HEAT OF THE BODY" "COOKS THE FOOD." "THE DIGESTIVE SYSTEM COOKS THE FOOD" "AND TURNS IT INTO BODY." "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE POUR" "AN OFFERING INTO A FIRE." "AHA." "THE WORLD IS AN EVER-BURNING" "FIRE OF SACRIFICE" "INTO WHICH AN INEXHAUSTIBLE SACRIFICE IS BEING POURED," "AND THAT'S THE NATURE OF LIFE." "THINK OF IT THAT WAY." "WE'RE ALL AN OFFERING BEING POURED" "INTO THE CONSUMING FIRE." "THE FIRST SERMON OF THE BUDDHA IS CALLED HIS FIRE SERMON," "THE ONE WHERE HE'S SITTING IN THE PARK OF BENARES." "THE LUST OF THE SENSES IS A BURNING FIRE." "THE HEARING OF THE EARS IS A BURNING FIRE." "THE SIGHT OF THE EYES IS A BURNING FIRE." "QUENCH THAT FIRE." "SENSE OF THE OTHER TRADITION IS FEED THAT FIRE." "NOW, THESE ARE THE TWO ATTITUDES" "TOWARD THE MYSTERY AND TERRIFIC THING THAT LIFE IS." "LIFE LIVES ON LIFE." "LOOK AT THE BIRDS." "LOOK AT THE ANIMALS GRAZING." "ALL THEY'RE EVER DOING IS EATING." "THEY'RE KILLING THINGS, AND THAT'S TAKING ON GAS." "THEY WOULDN'T FUNCTION OTHERWISE." "LIFE IS AN EVER-BURNING FIRE." "FEED THAT FIRE." "WELL, OUT OF THAT, COMES A KIND OF PASSION FOR SACRIFICE." "NOW, THE WHOLE IDEA OF SACRIFICE IS ONE THAT I FIND" "REALLY AWFULLY HARD TO TAKE." "THE IDEA THAT YOU KILLED SOME LITTLE ANIMAL" "AND GAIN A BENEFIT FROM IT." "THE POOR LITTLE THING." "I REMEMBER GOING TO THE KALI GHAT" "AT THE TIME OF THE [INDISTINCT] PUJA" "AND [CLEARS THROAT] THEY WERE GOING TO BEHEAD BUFFALOES" "AND LITTLE GOATS AND THINGS LIKE THAT." "WELL, I REALLY CHICKENED OUT." "I SAW A DEAR, LITTLE GOAT BEING PREPARED," "AND THE PEOPLE WHO WERE PREPARING IT" "JUST LOVED THAT GOAT AND THEY WERE PUTTING" "LITTLE FLOWERS ON ITS HEAD." "IT'S MAKING IT VERY HAPPY." "THAT HEAD WAS GOING TO BE TAKEN--UHH, I'M DONE." "[AUDIENCE LAUGHS]" "[CLEARS THROAT] BUT THIS IS BY MAGIC." "YOU'RE DOING WHAT THE WORLD DOES," "AND SO YOU'RE GOING WITH IT." "YOU KNOW THE RULE-- IF YOU'RE FALLING, DIVE." "THE-- [AUDIENCE LAUGHS]" "DO THE THING THAT HAS TO BE DONE." "AND SO THERE'S THIS PASSION FOR SACRIFICE." "THERE'S AN EARLIER IDEA OF SACRIFICE" "THAT'S CONNECTED ALSO WITH JUNGLE PEOPLE" "AND WITH AGRICULTURALISTS GENERALLY," "NOT IN THE SOPHISTICATED WAY OF THE INDIAN," "BUT JUST WHEN YOU GO THROUGH THE JUNGLE," "YOU SEE ROTTEN TREES AND OUT OF THEM COME FRESH, GREEN SPROUTS." "LIFE COMES OUT OF DEATH, SO..." "CREATE DEATH AND YOU WILL CREATE LIFE." "THAT'S THE FRIGHTFUL, REALLY HORRENDOUS," "DEMIURGIC APPROACH TO THINGS," "AND WITH THE INDIAN IDEA, THIS WAS ACCENTED." "SO WE'VE COME TO THIS TRANSLATION" "OF MYTH INTO PHILOSOPHY." "THE WORLD IS AN EVER-BURNING FIRE," "AND FEED THAT FIRE." "YOU FEED THAT FIRE BY THE PRIESTLY SACRIFICES," "BUT NOW COMES THE SECOND STAGE IN THIS PHILOSOPHIZING," "THE STAGE KNOWN AS THE UPANISHADS." "IF THE VEDAS DATE FROM 1,000 B.C.," "THE BRAHMANAS DATE FROM SOMEWHERE AROUND 900 TO 800 B.C.," "AND ABOUT THAT TIME, THERE BEGIN TO COME THE UPANISHADS." "THE TWO BIG ONES ARE THE BRHADARANYAKA AND CHANDOGYA." "THIS IS THE ESSENTIAL SHIFT NOW." "UPANISHAD." ""SHAD" MEANS "TO SIT."" ""UPANI" MEANS "CLOSE IN."" "YOU SIT CLOSE IN TO A TEACHER" "WHO TEACHES YOU CLOSE-IN DOCTRINE." "THE TEACHER SAYS," ""SO, WHEN YOU TAKE FOOD TO YOUR MOUTH," "THIS IS A SACRIFICE."" "THE FIRE WITHIN YOU IS THE AGNI," "THE FIRE OF THE SACRIFICIAL FLAME." "WHY GO TO THE BRAHMANS?" "YOU'VE GOT IT IN YOURSELF." "TURN IN." "AND ALL THOSE GODS THAT YOU ARE INVITED TO WORSHIP" "THROUGH THE PUBLIC SACRIFICE," "THEY'RE PROJECTIONS OF THE FIRE OF YOUR OWN ENERGY." "AND THERE'S THAT WONDERFUL PASSAGE IN THE CHANDOGYA" ""WORSHIP THIS GOD." "WORSHIP THAT GOD." ""ONE GOD AFTER ANOTHER." "THOSE WHO FOLLOW THIS LAW DO NOT KNOW." "THE SOURCE OF THE GODS IS IN YOUR OWN HEART." "FOLLOW THE FOOTSTEPS..." "TO THAT CENTER," "AND KNOW THAT YOU ARE THAT OF WHICH THE GODS ARE BORN." "THAT'S AN IDEA THAT ALREADY OCCURS IN EGYPT." "IT'S THE BASIC IDEA OF THE PHILOSOPHY," "THE PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY." "THE DEITIES ARE SYMBOLIC PERSONIFICATIONS" "OF THE VERY ENERGIES THAT ARE OF YOURSELF," "AND THESE ENERGIES THAT ARE OF YOURSELF" "ARE THE ENERGIES OF THE UNIVERSE." "AND SO THE GOD IS OUT THERE AND THE GOD IS IN HERE" "THE KING OF HEAVEN IS WITHIN YOU." "YES, BUT IT'S ALSO EVERYWHERE." "AND THIS IS PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY STUFF." "SO IT'S WITH THAT THAT WE NOW COME" "TO THE BUSINESS OF FINDING THE FIRE IN YOURSELF." "IT'S A PSYCHOLOGICAL ACT OF DISCRIMINATION." "VIVAGA, DISCRIMINATING BETWEEN" "THE PHYSICAL TRANSFORMING ASPECT OF YOUR ENTITY" "AND THAT ENDURING FLAME OF WHICH" "YOUR YOUTH AND AGE, YOUR BIRTH AND DEATH" "ARE BUT THE INFLECTIONS." "SO LET ME HAVE THE DIFFERENT DISCIPLINES TO COME TO THIS." "NOW, THE UPANISHADS SEEM TO DATE SOMEWHERE AROUND 800 B.C.," "AND IN INDIA, AN EXTREMELY RECONDITE ANALYSIS," "UNDOUBTEDLY FOSTERED BY THE EXPERIENCES OF YOGA," "WHICH ARE ALL INWARD," "LED TO AN EXTREMELY COMPLEX AND SOPHISTICATED PSYCHOLOGY." "THIS IS KNOWN AS THE SANKHYA PHILOSOPHY." "S-A-N-K-H-Y-A." "SANKHYA." "IT'S AN ANALYSIS OF THE PSYCHOLOGY" "OF THE INWARD BEING." "THEN THERE APPEAR A NUMBER OF TEACHERS" "WITH CIRCLES OF DEVOTEES, GURUS, AND THEIR SHISHYAS, OR STUDENTS," "AND TEACHING, TEACHING, TEACHING." "NOW, THE TEACHER PROPERLY" "IS ONE WHO HAS FOUND AND IDENTIFIED HIMSELF" "WITH THAT FIRE." "SO HE SPEAKS WITH THE VOICE OF THE FIRE." "WE GET THE SAME THING FROM JESUS, 600 YEARS LATER," "WHERE HE IDENTIFIES HIMSELF WITH THE FIRE," "WITH THE CHRIST ENERGY WHICH SUPPORTS ALL BEINGS," "AND SPEAKS OUT OF THAT." "HE DOESN'T SPEAK AS JESUS OF NAZARETH, BORN OF MARY." "HE SPEAKS AS THE TWICE-BORN," "THE ONE WHO HAS TAKEN BIRTH, THE VIRGIN BIRTH," "OF THE RECOGNITION OF THE SPIRITUAL LIFE," "WHICH IS HIS TRUE LIFE," "AND SO DO GURUS." "JUST WHEN JOE HAS TAKEN US" "TO THE EXTREMES OF EASTERN PHILOSOPHY AND RELIGION," "HE MAKES THE CONNECTION BACK TO OUR OWN TRADITION." "THE FIRE OF THE HINDU SACRIFICE" "IS THE VERY SAME FIRE THAT CHRIST IDENTIFIED WITH" "THE ENERGY THAT SUPPORTS THE UNIVERSE." "WE'RE BACK TO THE ELEMENTARY IDEA" "WHICH CAMPBELL FIRST SPOKE ABOUT." "WE SHOULDN'T BE SURPRISED." "IT'S THE POINT HE'S BEEN MAKING ALL ALONG." "SHIFT THE FOCUS OF OUR EYES," "READ THE SYMBOLS IN A DIFFERENT WAY," "AND WE SEE THAT ALL THESE TRADITIONS" "ARE TELLING THE SAME STORY." "THE TRICK IS TO FIND THE STORY THAT MOVES US." "BUT THIS RAISES THE QUESTION" "IF THESE TRADITIONS ARE ALL TELLING THE SAME STORY," "HOW COME THE EASTERN TRADITION" "IS SO RADICALLY DIFFERENT FROM THAT OF THE WEST?" "WHAT'S THE SPIRITUAL DIVIDING LINE" "BETWEEN EAST AND WEST?" "CAN WE IDENTIFY A SOURCE FOR WESTERN THOUGHT" "THAT IS DISTINCT FROM THAT OF THE EAST?" "CAMPBELL THINKS WE CAN." "NOW, THIS PERIOD IS A FASCINATING ONE." "IT'S A PERIOD OF ENORMOUS TRANSFORMATIONS." "IN PERSIA, THERE'S A GREAT TEACHER--AVESTAN ZOROASTER." "AND THE GATHAS, OR HYMNS, OF ZOROASTER" "ARE SO CLOSE TO SANSKRIT" "THAT THE PERSIANS AND ARYANS OF INDIA" "CANNOT HAVE BEEN LONG SEPARATED WHEN THESE WERE WRITTEN." "THE LANGUAGES WERE TOO CLOSE." "AND SO THE PROBABLE DATING OF ZARATHUSTRA" "IS SOMEWHERE AROUND THE TIME OF THESE UPANISHADS." "NOW, IT'S OUT OF THE ZOROASTRIAN," "OR ZARATHUSTRA..." "MESSAGE" "THAT OUR WHOLE WESTERN TRADITION COMES." "IN CONTRAST TO THAT WHICH IS OF THE BUDDHA." "SO I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THAT FIRST" "AND THEN TALK ABOUT THE BUDDHA." "I HAVE 10 MINUTES IN WHICH TO DO THIS." "ZOROASTER WAS TOTALLY AGAINST SACRIFICE." "HE WAS TOTALLY AGAINST THE WHOLE DRIFT" "OF THESE PSYCHOLOGIES IN INDIA" "AND OF THE EARLIER MYTHOLOGIES" "THAT WERE CONCERNED WITH PUTTING YOURSELF" "IN HARMONY WITH THE UNIVERSE." "ZOROASTER, IN HIS MYTHOLOGY, SEES TWO GODS." "AHURA MAZDA, THE LORD OF LIGHT," "AFTER WHOM THE MAZDA BULBS WERE NAMED." ""AHURA" MEANS "KIND OF SPIRIT"" "AND "MAZDA" IS THIS [INDISTINCT] BIRD OF LIGHT." "AHURA MAZDA WAS ALL LIGHT, ALL BENEVOLENCE, ALL POWER." "[COUGHS] ALL KNOWLEDGE." "AND THEN AGAINST HIM IS THE OPPOSITE DEITY" "CALLED ANGRA MAINYU-- A-N-G-R-A M-A-I-N-Y-U" "WHO IS DARKNESS, HYPOCRISY, AND DECEPTION." "WHAT HE HAS DONE HAS BEEN TO CONCORDIZE... 2 OPPOSITES--THE GOOD AND THE EVIL," "THE LIGHT AND THE DARK HAVE BEEN HERE PERSONIFIED," "OVERPERSONIFIED, YOU MIGHT SAY, AS GODS." "AND THE MYTHOLOGY IS AS FOLLOWS:" "THAT THE GOOD GOD CREATED A GOOD WORLD," "WHICH IS ALL LIGHT." "CONSEQUENTLY, INVISIBLE." "TO SEE SOMETHING, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SHADOW." "AND ANGRA MAINYU, WHO'S ALWAYS LATE AND ALWAYS JEALOUS..." "IS ANGRY AT SEEING THIS" "AND DECIDES TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT" "AND POURS DARKNESS AND SIN AND EVERYTHING NASTY INTO IT," "AND SO THERE IS A FALL." "AND SO THE UNIVERSE CONSISTS OF A GOOD AND AN EVIL POWER" "IN CONFLICT AND IN UNION." "SO DO NOT PUT YOURSELF IN HARMONY WITH THE UNIVERSE." "IT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU MUSTN'T DO." "THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE IN THE FIRST PLACE." "YOU'RE A MIXTURE." "YOU MUST, THROUGH INTENTION, THROUGH DECISION," "THROUGH ACTION, AND THROUGH COURAGE" "ALIGN YOURSELF WITH WHAT YOU RECOGNIZE AS THE GOOD." "AND THEN THE MYTH TELLS THAT THERE CAME INTO THE WORLD" "A SAVIOR TO TEACH THE WAY TO ACCENT THE GOOD..." "AND AS A RESULT OF THE ACTION OF THIS SAVIOR," "THERE IS NOW TAKING PLACE A RESTORATION." "THERE ARE THE GOOD PEOPLE WHO ARE" "RESTORING THE WORLD TO ITS ORIGINAL CONDITION." "SO THAT YOU HAVE A STRAIGHT-LINE ASCENT" "TO A RESTORATION," "AND THERE WILL COME A TIME WHEN THE CRISIS WILL OCCUR," "WHEN ALL DARKNESS WILL BE WIPED OUT." "THERE WILL BE A SECOND COMING OF THE SAVIOR" "IN THE FORM OF A FIGURE KNOWN AS SAOSHYANT," "AND DARKNESS WILL BE PERMANENTLY ELIMINATED," "THE GOD OF DARKNESS HIMSELF ELIMINATED," "AND THERE WILL BE NOTHING BUT LIGHT AGAIN." "DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE STORY?" "[AUDIENCE LAUGHS]" "[CLEARS THROAT] AND SO WE HAVE" "HERE ON THIS WESTERN COAST, THIS WESTERN SIDE OF THE STORY," "THIS IDEA OF DON'T PUT YOURSELF IN ACCORD WITH NATURE." "FIX NATURE UP." "AND YOUR CROWD IS THE ONE THAT'S DOING IT." "WE MOVE NOW OVER TO THE BUDDHIST SIDE--SEE?" "" "AND WHAT THE BUDDHA IS SAYING IS" ""YES, ALL LIFE IS SORROWFUL." "THAT'S THE NATURE OF LIFE."" "GOOD AND EVIL, ALL THESE NAMES THAT YOU GIVE THINGS" "THAT WHICH IS GOOD AND THAT WHICH IS EVIL AND ALL" "IT'S ALL A MIX, AND THAT'S THE WAY IT IS." "THE BUDDHA USED, ACTUALLY, THE TERMINOLOGY" "OF A HINDU MEDICAL MAN." "[CLEARS THROAT] MEDICAL MAN COMES IN" "AND OBSERVES THE PATIENT." "WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE PATIENT?" "THE PATIENT IS SUFFERING." "IS THERE A CURE?" "IS THERE A CURE FOR SUFFERING?" "ALL LIFE IS SUFFERING." "THERE IS A CURE FOR SUFFERING." "THE CURE FOR SUFFERING-- WHAT IS THE CURE?" "NIRVANA." "WHAT IS THE HEALTHY STATE?" "NOW, WHAT IS NIRVANA?" "THERE ARE MANY WAYS OF GETTING THIS WRONG." "NIRVANA CONSISTS IN THE PSYCHOLOGICAL STANCE" "[CLEARS THROAT] THAT MAKES YOU INDIFFERENT TO SUFFERING." "WHAT IS THAT TURNS YOUR LIFE INTO NOTHING BUT SUFFERING?" "IT IS DESIRE AND FEAR." "DESIRE FOR SOMETHING, SOME DELUSORY DESIRE," "AND FEAR, LEST YOU SHOULD LOSE SOMETHING." "THIS DESIRE AND FEAR, WHEN THEY ARE QUENCHED..." "YOU COME TO WHAT'S KNOWN AS" "THE MAHASUKHA, THE GREAT DELIGHT," "THE REALIZATION OF RAPTURE." "AND WHEN YOU'RE EXPERIENCING RAPTURE, PAIN DOESN'T HURT." "AND IT'S THAT GETTING INTO A CENTER" "THAT GIVES YOU SUCH A PARTICIPATION IN THE RAPTURE" "OF THE PROCESS" "THAT YOU'RE RIGHT IN THE CENTER THERE" "AND ARE NEITHER WINNING NOR LOSING YOUR INNER BEING." "I MEAN, THIS IS NIRVANA." "[CLEARS THROAT] NOW, THERE WERE MANY PEOPLE" "TALKING ABOUT NIRVANA IN THE BUDDHA'S TIME." "ONE OF THE GREAT GROUPS WERE THE JAINS--J-A-I-N." "JAINISM GOES BACK ALMOST UNDOUBTEDLY" "TO THE INDUS VALLEY TIME." "[CLEARS THROAT] JAINISM, HOWEVER," "WAS EXTREMELY PHYSICAL" "IN ITS NOTION OF ACHIEVING NIRVANIC RELEASE." "THE ESSENTIAL IDEA IN JAINISM WAS" "THAT THE SOUL, WHAT'S CALLED THE JIVA, THE LIVING MONAD," "IS INFECTED WITH ACTION, WHICH IS CALLED KARMA," "AND THIS ACTION BLACKENS AND RENDERS HEAVY" "THE LUMINOUS JIVA." "NOW, THEY DON'T TRY TO SAY HOW IT HAPPENED." "ALL THEY'RE SAYING IS, THIS IS THE WAY IT IS." "AND THE GOAL OF THEIR YOGA IS TO CLEAN OUT THE BLACK," "CLEAN OUT ACTION." "HOW DO YOU DO IT?" "BY SITTING." "MULABANDA." "ALL THE SENSES CLOSED." "NOT ACTING, BUT YOU'RE BREATHING STILL." "BOY, THAT'S AN ACT." "SO THE PROBLEM WITH THE JAIN IS TO DIE..." "NOT ONE MOMENT BEFORE YOU HAVE BECOME COMPLETELY RELEASED" "FROM THE DESIRE TO LIVE." "IT'S HARDER THAN YOU THINK TO GET TO NOT TO WANT TO LIVE." "AND SO THE JAIN COMMUNITY IS OF TWO GROUPS" "ONE THE SECULAR GROUP, THIS IS THE LAY COMMUNITY," "WHO HOPE THAT IN A NUMBER OF INCARNATIONS LATER," "THEY'LL BE READY FOR THIS NEXT ACT." "NEXT ARE THE MONKS AND NUNS," "WHO HAVE CUT THEMSELVES OFF FROM LIFE" "AND ARE, AS IT WERE, DEAD." "THEY'RE TRYING TO DIE." "FIRST STEP, OF COURSE," "EVEN THE LAY PEOPLE TAKE THIS STEP," "IS VEGETARIANISM." "YOU'RE ON THE WAY, MY FRIENDS." "THIS IS SAYING NO TO THE WAY LIFE IS." "WE DON'T KILL AND EAT ANIMALS." "WELL, YOU'RE KILLING AND EATING PLANTS." "OK, THE JAINS RECOGNIZE THAT, TOO." "SO THERE'S ANOTHER STEP WHERE YOU DON'T" "KILL AND EAT PLANTS, EITHER." "YOU WAIT FOR THEM TO DIE." "THAT'S A NICE SUPPER FOR YOU." "[AUDIENCE LAUGHS] YOU DON'T PICK AN APPLE" "FROM A TREE." "YOU WAIT FOR IT, REALLY, TO BE DEAD." "ALSO, AND YOU'RE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT DRINKING WATER AT NIGHT," "LEST THERE BE A LITTLE BUG IN IT OR SOMETHING." "AND IN BOMBAY, WHICH IS WHERE THE JAINS REMAIN" "THERE ARE VERY FEW OF THEM LEFT--NATURALLY" "[AUDIENCE LAUGHS] OF THE" "YOU SEE PEOPLE WALKING" "WITH THE SORT OF SURGEONS' CHEESECLOTH ACROSS THEIR MOUTH" "SO THEY SHOULDN'T BREATHE BUGS IN" "AND SO FORTH." "IN FACT, THERE WAS A VERY AMUSING CUSTOM" "IN THE OLD DAYS IN BOMBAY." "TWO CHAPS WITH A BED FULL OF BEDBUGS," "AND THEY'LL BE WALKING THROUGH THE TOWN" "WITH THE BED FULL OF BEDBUGS" "SAYING, "WHO WILL FEED THE BUGS?" "WHO WILL FEED THE BUGS?"" "I MEAN, YOU'RE BEING GENEROUS TO LIFE." "I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU WANT TO FOSTER LIFE AND KILL YOUR OWN," "BUT ALL RELIGIONS HAVE A POINT OF ABSURDITY IN THEM." "WELL, A LADY WILL THEN THROW A COIN OUT THE WINDOW" "AND ONE OF THESE TWO CHAPS WILL LIE IN THE BED," "BECOME A GRAZING GROUND FOR THE BEDBUGS," "AND HE'LL GET THE COIN AND SHE'LL GET THE MERIT." "ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU'RE TRYING NOT TO EAT YOURSELF," "AND WHAT--THE FIRST THING TO DO" "IS TO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF STEPS YOU TAKE A DAY," "BECAUSE EVERY STEP, YOU'RE PRESSING DOWN ON THE GROUND" "AND PROBABLY KILLING SOME LITTLE THING" "THAT'S GOT ITS LITTLE DWELLING UNDERNEATH, AND SO FORTH." "SO THEIR DAYS ARE GRADUALLY REDUCED" "TO SITTING WHERE YOU ARE AND NOT EATING" "AND THEN, OF COURSE, IT HAPPENS." "THE BUDDHA SAID, "NO, NO, NO."" "HE SAID, "THIS IS REALLY THE WHOLE THING PHYSICALLY." ""WHAT YOU MUST DIE TO IS PSYCHOLOGICALLY" "YOUR DESIRES AND YOUR FEARS." "AND THEN IN A VERY INTERESTING WAY," "LIFE BECOMES POSITIVE."" "WELL, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE LATER." "THE BUDDHA'S LIFE WOULD BE THE CULMINATION" "OF HUNDREDS OF YEARS" "OF SPIRITUAL DEVELOPMENT IN THE EAST." "PLEASE JOIN US NEXT TIME WHEN JOE CAMPBELL" "TELLS THE STORY OF THIS REMARKABLE MAN" "WHOSE LIFE BECAME THE INSPIRATION" "OF THE FIRST WORLD RELIGION." "CAPTIONING MADE POSSIBLE BY ACORN MEDIA" "CAPTIONED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE"