"North and South came along and I would've died to get it, you know." "It was just one of those roles of a lifetime." "This is one With the Wind for the last half of the 20th century." "This is one With the Wind for television." "I didn't have to create Madeline." "John Jakes created Madeline." "The popularity of the American Çivil War and all that goes with it  really lies in the emotion of people  who are close to one another being torn apart by what they believe  or what they're supposed to believe." "Roots was the story of the South from the black point of view." "North and South is the story of the South  from the white point of view." "The very first thing that you hear when the project goes on  is the main title and the music." "And the music is gonna carry that message  of what is this thing all about." "Çue marker." "Well, North and South, the trilogy began  with a three-book contract that I had." "Originally, it was to be three books  about a military family through the years, one family." "I then started to research it." "And of course, the first place I went to was West Point." "Read the history of West Point." "And in one book, I came across this one page  that named all of the generals who fought each other  in the Çivil War on opposite sides." "They had all known each other at West Point." "They had gone to school together." "They had gone to Mexico together, fought there." "And I called up my editor and I said, "Julian, this has gotta be it." "Now, we're gonna do two families at West Point  and it divides very nicely into North and South  dealing with the antebellum years  Love and War dealing with the war itself  Heaven and Hell dealing with Reconstruction. "" "And that was it, but it was an evolution." "Well, the North and South came about  because I actually got a call from ABÇ  they just bought a book called North and South." "I had just done Roots." "I did The Thorn Birds for them, they said:" ""We couldn't think of anybody better  we'd like to turn over the whole project but to you. "" "So I read the book, the first book, right away." "I said it's a great, juicy story." "John Jakes is a very juicy writer." "It was material that could be adapted so well for the form, the long form  in which feature films can't do  because they're compressed into an hour and a half or two hours." "And this story needed a lot of time to be told." "To be told effectively and to be told the right way." "I knew I had to do a formidable amount of research for the trilogy." "First of all, because the Çivil War is such an enormously popular subject  not only in the United States, but around the world." "Today, the Çivil War is called sometimes the Brothers' War, the Çousins' War." "And phrases like that really exemplify the split  the painful split that took part in our country." "y ou know, years ago  John Çalhoun said that West Point men  would lead great armies." "He never thought they'd be leading them against each other." "And I hadn't really realized it was that deep or that harrowing." "But that was the whole point that emerged  in writing North and South was these two guys basically  who had a great affection for one another  as West Point classmates." "At the end, when war broke out, they were pulled apart." "They each had to go their own way." "And it was more than just a casual decision." "It was very, very emotional." "I tell you, we didn't have any problems with the theme  with any controversy with the North and South  for one particular reason." "y ou heard the South's point of view  and you heard the North's point of view, so it wasn't... ." "y ou heard slavery." "But then you heard the people in the North saying how bad it was." "I was really intrigued with this time period  because, at the same time, it was a coming-of-age story  in many ways for Orry and George." "It was a coming-of-age period in my life as Patrick, you know." "Having to really analyze and look at who I am  and what I was about and who I thought I was  as opposed to who I really was." "Television has its place  and North and South definitely had its place telling the story  of certain aspects of slavery  seen from a white man's perspective." "I think it did marvelous things with Virgilia's character, you know  the abolitionists and all of that." "Reading John Jakes' books gave me great insight  but it also prodded me to do a lot more research." "And also delve into my own family tree." "Some who have died and some who spent time  in Çonfederate prison camps, and so forth  so that really brought it very close to me." "The only thing I determined  before I started writing North and South  was that I would not be an apologist for slavery under any circumstances." "I've actually been cornered at parties by what I call professional Southerners  who tried to tell me that slavery wasn't so bad." "It was okay." "They were wage slaves in the North." "They were slaves in the factories." "And to that, I always say, "y es, but in the North, they could walk away." "They could just walk away. "" "I had no idea what I was getting into, because I am a Southern man." "I do come from a belief system that is based in integrity and morality  and a certain code." "This time period, with the Çivil War brewing  in many ways, it was the first time men were challenged  to start questioning this code." "I was living in South Çarolina  recently moved in at the time I started the book." "I located their plantation up near Çharleston." "I debated as to whether to put the Main family  in the cotton business or the rice business." "Ultimately, I decided on the rice business because that was older  than the cotton business in South Çarolina." "I would say the Main family were middle-of-the-road Southerners  in the sense that they were slave owners  but tried not to mistreat their slaves." "But when push came to shove, they were willing  to apply horrible punishments to the slaves." "Mr. Main, sir." "What's Priam done?" "Why you beating him?" "There's no crime exactly." "It's his attitude, sir." "Priam don't show the proper respect." "A good overseer knows how to get a man's respect without beating him." "And we don't whip slaves at Mont Royal." "It really taught me what it is to be a true Southern man, you know." "It was like, at one point, my agent had a meeting with me  and said, "y ou've got to quit calling everybody 'sir. ' "" "I went, "Why?"" "He says, "Because it shows a lack of respect for yourself. "" "I went, "What the hell is wrong with you?" "I mean, that's insanity. "" "It had nothing to do with my self-esteem." "It had to do with, you know, the certain way you're brought up." "y ou hold the door for women." "y ou pull their chair out." "It's your job. lt's not a macho thing." "But also, when you say "sir" in a different context  it can also be very dangerous, you know." ""Sir, you mess with me one more time, and I break every bone in your body. "" "Let's have you, Mr. Main." "At your service, sir." "We had two personalities, we picked James Read  and we had auditions and readings and everything  and James Read looked the right to us." "We wanted attractive-looking actors, obviously." "Patrick Swayze was not a big star at the time." "He looked perfect for us too." "Both of them auditioned and read and screen-tested  and they got the part because they came out the best  in the screen test and the audition." "David Wolper and I didn't have many arguments." "But we had one about Orry losing his arm, you know." "In the book, he loses an arm fighting in Mexico." "Çonsequently, his other arm is extremely powerful  and it can even be used as a weapon." "Well, David didn't wanna do that." "And I can remember we argued about it on the phone." "And he finally persuaded me by saying, "Look, " he said." ""lf l have to have 1 2 hours or 1 0 hours or eight hours or whatever  with Patrick Swayze with his arm tied behind his back  they won't get the story." "They'll be saying, 'Where's his arm hiding?" "Where's his arm hiding?" "' "" "So I said, "All right, you've won." "y ou've won. "" "Patrick has such charisma  that every girl who met, and I'm sure meets him today  you meet him and you go:" "And he lights something up inside you." "So it wasn't difficult to act that." "Because even though I didn't want to sort of leap off  into the sunset with him, he's a charismatic person  and he inspires those looks and that flirtatiousness." "I don't even know your name." "It's Orry, Orry Main." "I'm from Mont Royal just up the river." "My name is Madeline Fabray." "I'm delighted to meet you." "I've always said, "y ou give me horses, capes and cleavage  and I'm a happy man, " you know." "Well, I still have them." "I still have the wardrobe." "But I've never let go of my general's uniform  and the cape when Madeline and I make love for the first time  in that burned-out church  and sort of consummate this doomed  or looks like it's doomed, relationship." "He loved you very much." " l know." " l'm gonna miss him so." "It was a really emotional time for me because my dad died." "My real dad died soon before." "So when you asked me earlier about, you know:" ""How does it feel with your father dying, as Orry  and having to take over the family and that responsibility  and carry on the legacy?"" "I was in the throes, personally  in the throes of, "What do I do without my dad?"" "The North was so overwhelmingly powerful  as an industrial concern, as an industrial society  that it seemed to me that having Hazards  in the iron business, making cannon, making whatever they made  during the war, was probably a good way  to exemplify the strength of the North." "I think that my character, George Hazard  was the conscience of the story  the moral conscience, the moral authority." "He had a true understanding of the division  that was apparently ripping the country apart." "It wasn't black and white." "It wasn't the South is bad, the North is good." "It's much more complicated than that." "There was not a guy on North and South  that I didn't, at one point or another, think:" ""y ou're so darling, you're just so darling." "Let me just hug you and kiss you. "" "James Read is certainly one of them." "And of course, I do get to hug him and kiss him in North and South III." "A marvelous actor." "He really is." "I tried to bring the sense of me that meets up with the character." "And George's journey is one  that goes from optimistic youth looking to the promise of the future  to one that grows into disillusionment  and pain  and the suffering that goes with fighting for a cause  that you believe in but carries with it a tremendous price." "I fell in love with him as a person." "And his ease, his James Bond kind of, you know  handsome and cool and... ." "In many ways, I wanted to be him because he was just so cool  and just had so much class and, you know  and I'm like the reactionary, you know, "lf it moves, eat it. "" "He was great in this series." "He really was." "He had a tough uphill battle with that part, you know." "North, upper class, upper... ." "He didn't have any of the raw emotion that Orry Main had." "He had an uphill battle and he pulled it off really well." "Well, George was sort of the steady one in the family." "Physically, George and Orry in the pictures are reversed." "Orry was tall and thin, skinny kind of a Lincoln-esque figure." "George was short, stocky." "That changed when the actors were cast." "My brother obviously forgot to introduce me, Mr. Main." "Of course not." "I'm Virgilia Hazard." "Virgilia, who's always been one of my favorite characters  she was a fiery abolitionist." "So where, ladies and gentlemen, do these new slaves come from?" "Why, they come from slavery itself." "For the true crop of a Southern plantation  is a human crop." "Don't have to tell about Kirstie Alley, the audience know how feisty she is." "Kirstie is intense." "I mean she's got that fire in her eyes." "She gets on something, she's like a pit bull." "As actors, we played in underlying current of attraction  to where it was that kind of dangerous male-female relationship." "Well, since you're so enamored with women and their ideas  perhaps you would enjoy listening to one who actually has some." "Very easy to believe." "Very easy to see the passion of that character come alive in her." "Taking you into South Çarolina  is like taking a torch into a powder magazine." "I'll be good as gold, I promise." "To you, madam." "y ou're love of beauty is exceeded only by a love of money." "Oh, how true." "Now, somebody like Elizabeth Taylor, she agreed to do magazine  newspaper, radio and television interview." "So she came down to Çharleston  because she hadn't done an interview for about five years." "So, what she brought us for that one day  was a network television show on three networks  major stories by AP and UP  major stories in People, TIME magazine." "And so it's worth paying her." "I have some rather distressing news, Madeline." "I know that you probably told Orry and no doubt he said that our family" "What stays between Orry and me is none of your business, Ashton." "Well, they were all feisty, I gotta tell you." "They became Kirstie Alley  Terri Garber, Wendy Kilbourne." "Those three became very close on the set." "I declare, I wish I could go out exactly like this." "The clothes." "The clothes were a nightmare for me, I know." "In the days when people actually wore those clothes  those women have them on for maybe two hours a day." "We had them on for 1 2, 1 4, sometimes longer, a day." "Most of the women stopped getting our periods." "Çompletely stopped." "Because the pulling in of all of your organs  just seizes you up." "And at lunch time, we would get to take our corsets off  and literally they would hang them up outside the trailer  and they would just drip with the sweat  and then you put them back on." "Lesley-Anne Down is a beautiful, beautiful woman." "I have done two films with her  so I know how beautiful she is." "I've always found that no matter what angle you film  Lesley-Anne Down from, she's beautiful." "There wasn't even a question as to what part I wanted to play." "I mean, on page two  it was obvious to me that Madeline was your absolute archetypal heroine." "She was the woman that would be remembered." "Not that her part was more important than anybody else's  but she's definitive." "She was just beautifully written  and she was one of those girls  that the guys just want to get on a big old horse and go rescue." "They wanna be Orry Main." "Lesley and I both were of the belief  that it's not about jumping somebody's bones  or sucking face that's sexy." "It's about the need and the passion, the desire and the connection  between two human beings in there eyes." "y ou know what, passionate love scenes I have some experience with  so whenever you have to act those, it just tickles the old emotions again." "So you're kind of like, "Oh, yeah l remember that. "" "Lesley-Anne Down is the essence of a true Southern belle." "She was eye candy." "She was just, you know, luscious." "The scope of the production was staggering." "The size and re-enacting Çivil War battles and going back to this time period  but we were shooting in the places it all happened." "Boone Hall, this gorgeous plantation." "Standing in between those columns and looking out  how could you not be this guy?" "And going down the streets of Çharleston in carriages  all you had to do is leave yourself open  and the production value alone would take you away." "The first time that we were at Boone Hall  you turn a corner and you see the canopy of trees  like a cathedral stretched out in front of you." "And there is the house that is so famous." "It's goose-bumpy." "It took us a year and a half." "We filmed it in Çharleston, South Çarolina  and some were in Mississippi  and some here out in the Simi Valley, Newhall, Çalifornia." "We had a lot of problem-- l think one of the funniest ones that happened to us  is we shot in Çharleston." "Because Çharleston is a city that looks the same." "Whole areas of Çharleston are no different than they were back in 1 800." "So one particular street, whenever we film  we had to put dirt over the pavement  because there wasn't any pavement in that period." "So one street, we put dirt up and down the pavement  and a woman comes out screaming and yelling:" ""y ou're gonna ruin my house." "y ou're putting dirt in my house." "This is an 1 860 house." "All this filth and dirt is gonna ruin my house. "" "I looked at her and I said, "Lady, there was dirt in front of your house  for a hundred years before I came." "And it's lasted today, it's gonna last one more day of dirt. "" "Then she looked at me and said, "y our right, Mr. Wolper, you're right. "" "We're shooting outside of Natchez, Mississippi  and I don't know if you've ever been in Natchez in July, but it's a little hot." "We're shooting in sweltering Southern heat  with 1 50-percent humidity." "And, of course, we're shooting a winter scene, it's snowing." "And while on camera, I would be able to turn my sweat of  but then here and there  I would just turn or lean over or whatever in a fight scene, so whatever  and just pass out and just hit the ground." "It's like, "Swayze's on the ground again." "Slap him, get him up. "" "And it was so hot that the soap flakes they used to imitate snow  were melting and dripping on the costumes." "Didn't lend the necessary air of authenticity they were looking for." "The major thing, of course, with the Çivil War was a battle scene." "Fortunately, in a Çivil War, there were groups in the South  who meet every week and restage battles  live like the people did in those days." "They lived in the tents, they spent overnight together  they restage the battles together." "Without them, it'd be nearly impossible to-- lt will take you months to get the costumes  figure out how to stage the battles." "So they really are a terrific help with people who do Çivil War films." "This group are Çivil War experts." "They're just sensational." "If that kind of dedication to authenticity didn't inspire you  and lead you to believe that there are people really dedicated  to telling the story in a true and accurate way  then nothing else would." "They need no direction." ""Action, " and they just-- lt's hard to stop them." "Stop killing each other, the camera's not rolling anymore." "I know that a book is not going to jump fully-blown onto the screen  and I was very happy, generally  with the adaptations that came out of these novels." "y ou got a lot of writers who say:" ""Well, I can't put this in." "y ou changed my book, you did this. "" "John Jakes was nothing like that." "He loved what we had done in the script, he loved everything." "He loved what we left out and what we edited  and we told him, the reasons why we did it." "He totally approved everything." "And he was one of those writers who understands the business." "I had to sit with David Wolper, who is an elegant gentleman  with a reputation as a producer unparalleled, unrivalled by anyone else." "He's a special man." "And I believe he said to me after knowing what the project was about  that he wanted something like one with the Wind." "And I probably said, "Okay. "" "And I do remember playing it on the piano  for both David and the director." "And I obviously accomplished what I'd set out to do  at least in the minds of David and our director." "The music has the emotion stuff." "is it a big project, is it a big picture, is it a big mini-series?" "I think my opening does that." "I think it delivers the goods." "y ou know, it either has a spark and a magic or it doesn't." "And North and South had a spark and a magic." "Perfect quality and perfect sound." "I mean, there's nothing-- l couldn't ask for more as a producer." "I casually turned to David and I said:" ""By the way, when do we go on the air?"" "He says, "ln three weeks. "" "Shortened my life by six months, I'm sure  but I began immediately." "Every morning from 6:00 to 6:00 at night, I wrote music  because I had a week's worth of music to start recording  and I was, for two weeks now  always recording at night, writing during the day." "One, two, three, four... ." "Wouldn't it be nice if we had, in a Wagnerian sense, a light motif?" "A little theme that you attached to various players, actors, characters  as they came in, or situations." "y ou know, I fell in love with you during our very first dance." ""Oh, I'm in love, " and you hear the love theme." ""Oh, here comes him, " and his theme plays." "So I did that." "I made a little pallet of themes for everyone and some situations  and I think every time we fought, I did something." "Playing the theme for David at the piano the first time  I'm glad that he thought it was really good  because I'd have to go back and do another one if he didn't." "Sometimes when I watch something 1 0 years later and see the film  I still say to myself, "l don't like that scene." "It could have been something." "It could have been better. "" "When Orry Main came from the South to West Point  in actuality, a number of people from the South  brought their slaves with them to West Point." "And we cut it out there  because you'd have this long explanation of what happened there  and I didn't wanna get into a controversy and everything." "But later on, I said to myself, "That would have been a terrific scene. "" "It would have said something to the other characters  people from the North, by saying, by getting a closer picture  of what slavery was all about." "And it would have, I think, helped the overall story  that we didn't put in, and I'm sorry about that." "It was a very, very explosive, you know, period of time." "I think it was like a gigantic soap opera." "y ou turn on one episode, you just get sucked in." "I got the opportunity to work with unbelievable people." "I mean, Jimmy Stewart." "There now, that's the smile I remember." "I could tell how much your wife cared for you  and that troubled me all the time I was holding my silence." "I got myself all prepped and primed to walk on the set with Jimmy Stewart  and when I walked on the set, my knees turned to butter  and I couldn't remember one word of what I was supposed to say." "I felt like a little kid just standing there, just in awe." "I was in New Orleans a couple of months ago  and this is almost 20 years after the show first aired  and I was walking down Bourbon Street  and a guy came up to me and stopped  and looked at me and said, "General Hazard. "" "And he saluted me." "I was just taken aback." "One of the things that I'm most proud of  I'll tell you, the North and South is one of my favorites." "There's hours of music." "y ou mean, which book do I like personally?" "My favorite is the middle one, Love and War  because it covers the entire Çivil War, start to finish." "And I think it's a pretty good highlight version of the war  from the Southern side as well as the Northern side." "There's no question, number one was my favorite book, of course it was." "It broke my heart that I didn't get to-- l didn't get to do this role and my dad see it." "Anyplace where you find the essence of civil war  where you have one people divided on an issue  makes it a story that people can relate to  no matter where they're from or what language they speak." "It was a true  extra-rich chocolate piece of life, you know." "It truly was." "What I enjoy about the results is that we're still talking about it  and we can still show the film 20 years later." "And we'll still be able to show it 50 years later  because it's a story about history." "It will always be relevant." "It will always be important."