"CARSON:" "My first guest tonight, Joe Newman." "He's from Lucedale, Mississippi." "And he makes his living as an inventor." "So you have no training in physics or mathematics, as such?" "That's right." "In fact I started on this because I'm just an old country boy." "[Laughter]" "I picked up a book on energy." "On Faraday's generator." "And when I read that, I remember squirming around." "Because that's telling me they was getting something for nothing." "CARSON:" "One of his inventions..." "Ifs a machine that produces energy... apparently puts out more external energy than internal energy." "And if that's true, could very possibly change energy in general." "It's one of the most important things" "I've ever done in my life... to help this man bring forth the technology..." "Literally can change the world." "Having the ability to produce unlimited amounts of power from Joe Newman's energy machine would allow general benefit to the entire world." "NEWMAN:" "I've utilized the energy in a magnetic field..." "The scientific community has been totally blind to." "And he was getting some results that no one ever gotten." "[Explosion]" "Could he possibly have done this?" "He's invented real stuff." "We all were just elated at what we were in... doing." "If you're going to reverse the laws of physics, you better have some data to back it up." "I think we're ready." "Disconnect that thing if you need to." "You check back with me in a year, and you're going to see a working prototype hooked to a home." "I want you to leave here knowing that the energy in a magnetic field is literally a river of energy." "Some people wouldn't choose him to be their hero." "But Joe Newman is a hero." "INTERVIEWER:" "You know what'?" "Just go right to the beginning..." "How you heard about Joe..." "When you first met him." "Well, I was working at WWL television, channel 4 in New Orleans." "Very good TV station, I might add." "And the news department heard stories of this strange inventor in the backwoods of Mississippi who had a device which was purported to produce more energy then it consumed." "A perpetual motion machine... so-called." "Most of the time, when you talk to someone about this, they would say, "Oh, a perpetual motion machine can't be done."" "It's absolutely impossible."" "It's got to work under some real laws of physics." "Even if you have a good motor, you'll have a power loss of about 20 %." "I know physics, and I knew a lot about electronics." "And I was pretty sure it just can't work." "So I made a few suggestions at the request of the news department as to what things they might want to look for, for the story." "And eventually, the news department asked me... would" "I like to go out and take a look at it?" "So I said, sure." "I'd love to go see." "This is right up my alley." "I'd love to see what's going on here." "So I went out to take a look, with the crew for the story." "We wanted 'to see what's going on." "A strange inventor was at Lucedale, Mississippi." "Now Lucedale, of course, was a small Mississippi town." "A very, very nice place." "It was just like going back in time 50 years." "Award-winning... sorry." "That began as a kind of joke piece." "I mean" perpetual motion machine, come on." "But it would be fun." "INTERVIEWER:" "What's was it like up there?" "Isolated as you can possibly think of." "I gotta say, this may never hit the air." "Run this for the Christmas Show." "[Laughter]" "OK gang here's a... this is the man that will save the world." "Yes, he is a little bit of a recluse." "[Beep]" "All right." "You ready?" "I'm ready." "For the final stages of what will soon become..." "And that's..." "I don't know what I'm saying." "I met Joe Newman." "When I looked at Joe and his persona out there in the woods..." "Didn't suggest Einstein, but he seemed like somebody that was beyond laser focused." "Beyond laser focused." "But what I set about to do was get the damn thing disproved." "So we brought in people to specifically disprove it... this carnival joke." "So I went and looked at what he had." "And what I saw was basically a strange looking device which... he wouldn't let us see exactly what was in the device." "The machine was not grounded, unlike any other existing motor." "Thing was wrapped with plywood, and had masking tape hanging off of it." "It just" when you looked at it, you said..." "Ooh, whoo-whoo, ooh-whoo-whoo." "NEWMAN:" "I'll have to check and see which way this thing's running." "I'll just spin it up, so it doesn't work so hard to get started." "OK." "OK, we can go off and leave that thing." "Come back and check it." "When it would run, it would operate." "And it just ran and ran and ran, on very, very small batteries." "And it would flash a bunch of lights." "OK, now you're running at 30 RPM and two pulses per revolution." "60 pulses per minute." "That kind of got me in the middle where I was, whoa." "And beginning to think there really was something to this." "Because he'd invented real stuff." "According to conventional theory, it can't do what it's doing..." "Just sitting there continuously rotating the rotor requires more power than is going into the device." "What it's doing'?" "You can't do it without some kind of external force." "There's no angels on the head of a pin pushing this thing, and there's no wind and there's no crank." "Their thought was, there was a transformer buried in the woods somewhere." "And he said, we'll look all over the place." "And they still couldn't prove it." "And I remember this part." "We leave his home, and Ralph Hartwell is in the car with me." "And I said, well guys." "How do I wrap this up'?" "And Ralph said, I've never seen anything like it." "[Beep] [beep] [beep]" "This is is a story that I can almost guarantee you will not believe." "Over the past 18 years, few have believed." "Joseph Newman is an inventor." "You see, in Joseph Newman's garage, there lies the unlikely results of 18 years of research and frustration." "It's a machine." "A 600 pound magnet." "Flashing lights, plywood cover to protect their inner workings against patent infringement." "Now Mr. Newman claims this unlikely unit converts mass into energy on 100 % conversion process." "Simply put, this machine runs on its own energy." "No oil, no gas, no nuclear fuel." "Think of this." "We're going to use Newman's energy device." "We're going to feed power into our system..." "Provide you with power." "We're going to shut down all of our coal burning, fossil fuel burning plants." "We're going to shut down all of our nuclear plants, and we're going to provide you with clean, reliable energy for a fraction of the cost you're paying now." "It could be a big boost for the entire world." "This prototype is simply to prove the merit of this theory." "That very quickly, a very compact, small device can be made and be produced for the consumer that they can buy for home or automobile or airplane or space vehicle-whatever." "So I suggested, Joe if you're serious about this and you really want to put this together, why don't I just come to work for you full time?" "But I can't do it for free." "So Joe said, OK I'll pay you what you're making at the TV station." "I said, OK that's fine." "INTERVIEWER:" "So when you get to the Newman story... what was the effect on ratings when you started?" "Oh, through the roof." "The audience just went, [woosh]" "We continue tonight our series of reports called Power to the People." "I could not go anywhere without being asked about Newman." "Joseph Newman." "Joseph Newman." "Joe Newman." "It was on a weekend." "I was reading in one of... the paper." "And saw a little paragraph about Joe Newman down in Lucedale." "The latest on the Newman energy machine, Monday at ten." "There was a special coming on, in New Orleans at WWL." "And they were going to present the work of Joseph Newman." "And this could revolutionize the whole world." "Cars would not need gas tanks, because this machine uses no conventional fuel." "Right away, something..." "Something clicked with me." "I felt a connection to what this man was trying to do." "I was curious about Joe." "And when I went back to work Monday, I called him." "I said Joe, I'd like to come and see you and bring a few people with me." "So he said, OK." "And he said, well, why don't you come down here." "And I'll show you some stuff." "I know that Evan is very sensitive to new inventions." "And this interesting guy, Joe Newman." "This was obviously someone who had a new thought about something." "So Evan and I and about 15 or 20 other people." "We went to see him." "We had electrical engineers." "We had a nuclear engineer." "We had physicists." "We had mechanical engineers that came with me." "And they were just as curious as I to learn about what this technology was about." "Joe was quite surprised to see that many people coming to see him in the woods." "He shook hands with us, figured he could trust us, and said, OK follow me." "So we spent the day in Lucedale, studying this big, humongous machine." "When we set up that experiment, we first looked at an amp meter, to see how much amperage that 80 % efficient motor was pulling." "10 amps." "And then we hooked up Joe's model that did the same amount of work in voltage in the same amount of time." "One amp?" "One tenth the 80 % efficient motor." "I was excited about what the possibilities of this thing were." "That it is beyond remarkable." "NEWMAN:" "That's a machine that converts mass into energy on a 100 % conversion process." "It'll start the Industrial Revolution all over again, except greatly accelerated rate." "It'll bring more toward bringing world peace than all the kings and queens and politicians that have ever lived." "I'm not promoting Joe Newman." "I'm promoting the people of the world." "What I'm doing is giving the people an example." "If one man can shake the world, then what can the whole world do'?" "When I heard him speak that day," "I knew that he was speaking on the level." "What he said was of such import that I had to do what I had to do to help him." "L was thrilled, really, to be part of what I thought was coming." "INTERVIEWER:" "You must've been pretty excited about seeing a motor like this." "Yeah, I was excited about this intellectually, because I saw that it was something that broke the paradigm of the way that electric motors were currently being built." "Our physics system says when you feed energy into a device, you should lose power." "And in the case of Joe's motor, you gain a lot of power... which is, by conventional physics, unacceptable." "There's voodoo going on." "Or, instead of voodoo, I should say, magnetic fields." "It was proved that a magnet has magnetic lines of force which connect its poles." "NEWMAN:" "The facts told me there was a river of energy coming out of a permanent magnet, and that was a magnetic field." "It's a phenomenal amount of energy..." "Literally, kinetic energy." "This magnetic field..." "It was obvious to me there was some type of mechanical characteristic in this system." "And the reason I thought that was that it showed that it you took a permanent magnet and you took a conductor..." "And if you moved a magnet relative to a conductor, the directions of the current would reverse, relative to the motion of the magnet or the coil." "Only this magnet could show everything was relative to something in this magnetic field." "Took me over three years to figure it out." "Now I tap into it and utilize it, so long as it existed." "Even today, mainstream science doesn't fully understand magnetic fields." "They know the effects of them, but they can't tell you exactly what they are." "There has to be a mechanical connection between those that makes the thing go this way or that way." "As far as I know, nobody knows, except Joe, what makes the magnetic particles go in one direction or the other." "Joe actually learned that the energy in a magnetic field" ""can be harnessed" just as we sat beside a moving river for thousands of years before somebody decided to learn how to put a paddle wheel into it, to harness it." "What Joe Newman has done is learn how to put that paddle wheel into that preexisting kinetic energy field and tap into it, to produce astounding levels of energy that we never even conceived of before." "Joe did it with his own imagination with no help." "Everything Joe Newman did surprised me." "When I found out he created the sand in the tires, when I found out he created the plastic for the barbells, he always surprised me." "The original plastic covered lead weights, which everybody could afford suddenly, and it was one of his first inventions." "For this invention, he had to have the finished product ready for the investors by the upcoming" "Christmas season." "Many people said that he could never really do it." "But being the person that he was, he said, yes, I can do this." "He came up with it, created the machinery necessary to effect the process because no one had ever done that before." "He worked 24 hours a day, day and night." "In a matter of a few months, he got the barbells out into the public." "He did what most people said couldn't be done." "It sounds like a loose board, you know, kind of like something flopped around, didn't it?" "Yeah, it sounded like a board to me." "MAN:" "There was this intensity about him that I have the utmost respect for and this is his life's work." "This is the most important thing that he's developed." "OK." "He knew what he wanted to do with the motor, and it became obvious to me what he wanted to do with." "At that time, he was looking for confirmation from some meaningful sources because he needed it to apply for a patent." "So I got an appointment with these two electrical engineers from Mississippi Department of Energy who were also professors at Mississippi State to come down here." "These EE guys looked at the results." "800 percent efficient." "I mean, I looked at these guys, and I say, what's happening?" "I mean, it should've just blown them away." "I mean, they could have been jumping around." "But the only thing I could describe is they were frightened because they couldn't explain what was happening." "Anyone who has spent 10 or 15 years doing something, dedicating their life to it, there is a good chance that person can come up with a revolutionary creative thought simply because they'll look at it from a different standpoint" "than what everybody else has." "When I was doing those reports, I would get very, very angry letters, angry phone calls from engineers, scientists saying that I was making a mockery of science or engineering." "They either are in denial, or they refuse to even look at it, consider it." "Now, I imagine some people don't want to get involved for fear of stirring up animosity." "I'd be... if a scientist, engineer?" "I'd disprove that damn thing." "Because funding, publicity, grants..." "I want that for science, not cockamamie ideas like this." "For whatever reason, it wasn't working out, you know?" "Joe was asking them to admit to something that's physically impossible, and they had their reputation at stake." "In August of this year, Joseph Newman called one of the premier instrumentation firms in the world." "He requested that engineers be sent to his home to make sure the testing equipment he had purchased from that company was working properly." "On August 24th, two engineers tested the equipment and Mr. Newman's machine." "After testing the Newman device for five hours, one of the engineers called me." "He said the machine is simply incredible." "It does exactly as the inventor claims." "He then offered a letter and the test results, plus he and his partner agreed to an interview." "But the next day, company representatives called WWL to say there would be no letter, no interviews, and the company's name should not be used." "Shortly thereafter, the two engineers asked us not to use their name for fear of being fired." "Well, Joe wanted to get NASA to cover it, and there was a NASA representative that went to Joe's home in Lucedale, tested the machine, agreed it worked, and then he refused to be on camera." "He didn't want to go public with it." "And I became totally amazed at the evasive approach that I got from these people, so I kept persisting because I was very convinced that I was correct." "They wouldn't admit to what they saw." "Joe was desperate to get this thing out." "MAN:" "One time, Joe talked to me about what he's thinking." "Initially, it was just total disbelief based off what they had been taught, and now it's gotten to a lot more than that." "It's obvious that there's been pressure applied to these people because they've actually..." "Totally outside of the law." "They've even perjured themselves." "And then Joe said, I want to have a news conference." "I will call a news conference." "And I would like for you to stand up with me and for me and tell the world what you've seen." "And of course, at this time, I'd seen the electrical engineers back out and so, you know, it was a gut wrencher for me." "You know, I had to say, and ask myself, who the hell are you?" "If you've got the courage to stand up and say something that's supposedly impossible, and you're going to agree to something that's against the laws of physics." "I see what I see, and I believe what I believe." "And yeah, Joe, I'll stand up with you." "And we did." "REPORTER:" "When Joseph Newman stepped before a news conference today to make his astonishing claims, sitting beside him, representatives of the State" "Department of Energy, longtime skeptics now convinced." "MAN:" "There were people, AP and all the news media was there, and..." "I saw the device and saw it tested, that indeed it put out more energy than it took in." "I am convinced now." "You know, it came out on all the three networks on TV." "There you are, you idiot, telling the world." "REPORTER:" "There will be much talk, much more study, many arguments about Joseph" "Newman's strange machine." "But for those of us who worry about skyrocketing utility bills and Arab oil embargoes, just imagine..." "What if Joe Newman is right'?" "NEWMAN:" "When I was a boy, World War ll was going on." "My father, he was an alcoholic." "The night that I was being born, they couldn't find him." "You know, he was always drunk somewhere." "When I was born, especially in the South, it was a difficult time." "We just couldn't get no food." "So everybody was sending their kids to anybody who would take care of them, because they couldn't feed them." "Now, my brother was with me from the time" "I woke up until I went to bed, cause he wasn't going to school." "He was just taking care of me." "In fact, I'd get out of my bed, go get in his bed with him and go to sleep." "And then he'd pick me up and put me back in my bed after I'd go to sleep." "He was like my mother and father." "MAN:" "He loved his family very, very much." "MAN:" "Joe was proud of his son, Gyromas, and Ellen, his wife." "MAN:" "She was a country girl." "She was beautiful." "As far as I knew, she was totally dedicated to Joe." "Experts who test the machine, endorse the machine, the better the chances of getting a patent." "In the meantime, three industries had decided they were interested in investing." "So it would seem that the dream that Joseph Newman dreamed 18 years ago here in the woods of Lucedale, Mississippi, is on the verge of reality." "RALPH HARTWELL:" "Joe, he spent some time to prepare many documents for the Patent Office." "A patent is basically a license to sue someone if they infringe on your invention." "And it is very important, because businesspeople may express interest in a device, but if you don't have patent protection, they were very reticent to commit any resources at all to following through." "Once submitted, Joe Newman's patent application ended up in the hands of a patent examiner by the name of Donovan Duggan." "Joe figured, being the optimist that he was at the time, that they should be no problem with it." "And being a revolutionary technology, was hoping for a quick approval of his application, so he could get on with the building the technology and bring it forward." "The patent was held up, because they didn't think someone could build it." "The Examiners totally disbelieve that this device was operable." "And in fact, he disbelieved it so much to the extent, he had inferred that I had a hidden energy source." "He implied that he even doubted I had the device built." "He called it an alleged device." "He just didn't believe anything about it." "INTERVIEWER:" "The Examiner, Donovan Duggan, do you remember him?" "No." "In fact, I was not that close to the operation." "But it's one of those sayings where you've got the law of physics out here that has existed for many, many years." "And you're going to overturn one of these laws." "JOSEPH NEWMAN:" "During the meeting, the Examiner was present, his immediate supervisor was present." "Examiner, he kept asking me, where does this energy come from?" "I knew instantly that the Examiner had not even thoroughly read the patent application." "It they read that, they would not ask me where this energy comes from." "And I didn't try to argue with them or anything." "I just put that down on my on my mind." "And I then kept talking." "And the Examiner spoke up." "He said, Mr. Newman, in fact, I don't think I'll ever be able to give you a patent, no matter what evidence you present to me, because he has never given anyone anything for a patent application saying" "that the energy out is greater than the energy in." "INTERVIEWER:" "Did you see him get angry at irrational moments?" "I mean he was amiable, but very intense." "The people that didn't like him became like punching bags to Joe." "He would hit them with his verbal jabs, and either wear him down until they got wore out and went away, or fell over from exhaustion." "So I wasn't surprised when I found out somewhere, maybe on that first day, that his original career was that of a boxer." "Because if you understand that he was a boxer before he became an inventor, you can kind of understand." "And Joe continually we went from one kind of boxing match to another." "[Music playing]" "At that point, Joe said, we need to hold a demonstration in Washington, DC." "We rented the Capitol Center, a large auditorium venue." "He brought up a multi-thousand pound unit to that to a demonstration." "Good morning, everyone." "My name is Evan Some." "I handle public relations for Joseph Newman." "I'd like to welcome you to the first national public demonstration, and the first public disclosure of Joseph Newman's revolutionary energy machine." "RALPH HARTWELL:" "We had a ranch set up so you could walk up and look at the machine." "Joe had a number of small light bulbs showing energy coming out of the machine." "We had oscilloscopes to read the voltages, and so on, and so forth." "The law states what a patent office should do." "And they stand against this when that I have presented credible evidence." "I don't say this out of just moxie." "I say it because I care." "I care about the advancement in science and human race." "He ran the machine." "He proved it that the Capitol Building, which was only a few miles from the Patent Office, that the machine was doing precisely what he said it was supposed to do." "This magnetic field will disappear." "But what have you done?" "Increased the random motion of the atoms." "He had flew experts there that had endorsed his work." "They testified for the people attending." "My name is Roger Hastings." "I'm a physicist." "The machine does work." "It's doing things I can't explain." "I need your help." "It can't be done?" "Why not?" "Because you said it can't be done." "I don't know it can't be done." "My name is Bobby Matherne." "I am employed by the Louisiana Power and Light." "I had no idea what to expect." "And when I walked in, I saw a room full of people." "That was a very exciting... thank you." "INTERVIEWER:" "Let's pick it up from after that meeting." "The patent department, what happened from there?" "I wrote a letter to respond to the US Patent Office in a very factual, direct manner." "And the facts did not make the Examiner look very well." "And my attorney told me, he said," "I know it's the exact truth." "But he said, I can guarantee you that if you send this then, it will assure you that you will not get your patent." "INTERVIEWER:" "Because you were critical of the patent" " department?" " Yeah." "And they will protect their own, irregardless of the truth." "That upset me greatly." "NARRATOR:" "At that point, Joe Newman, felt that he was dealing with a bunch of buffoons, essentially." "So what's he going to do?" "The inventor will never get his product to the public until he gets his patent." "He now is fighting for that patent in federal court." "[Music playing]" "The man who needs no introduction, Joseph Newman." "[Applause]" "Thank you all very much." "I've been having a fight with the Patent Office." "And like I had said, I'll fight until hell freezes over." "And I mean literally that." "I wish to change the Patent Office, as well as push this invention forward." "NARRATOR:" "This was the scene at New Orleans Hilton Hotel today." "Over 1,000 people crammed into a ballroom to hear Newman, and more than 1,000 more waiting outside." "Garland told me, he said, this is going to be a bust." "They double the amount of people, and the fire department wouldn't let more people in." "NARRATOR:" "At the podium, was the usual complement of scientists who have supported Newman." "But there were also some new faces." "Actor Eddie Albert, who draw President Reagan's attention to Newman's fight." "And we've got a nice chance to move ahead." "And I expect from all of you here, we've got to work together." "Now if you want to debate with it, write it and put your name to it, and I'll show that you're ignorant." "[Applause]" "I don't see why Joe Newman, the individual, supposedly goes as a supplicant to the Patent Office and should be treated like a third class citizen." "I think that Joe Newman stands as a representative to every person who's ever been frustrated by dealing with the government that does everything it canto protect and to conceal its own incompetence." "And the Patent Office here is a supreme example of that." "Newman thought they needed a trial lawyer who understood scientific principles." "They believed I knew how to fight against a system that was unfair." "I believe that's how I was chosen." "NARRATOR:" "Joe Newman went before the Federal Judicial Court in Washington, DC to fight with the Patent Office." "He had been assigned a federal judge by the name of Thomas Penfield Jackson." "INTERVIEWER:" "Bring us into the court room, or whatever you remember of it." "JOHN FLANNERY:" "At one point, I took the deposition of the Examiner at the Patent" "Office, Mr. Duggan." "[Music playing]" "The Examiner that said, this machine can't work, himself, didn't understand how machined worked." "I had no doubt that Joe wasn't getting a fair opportunity in the Patent Office." "INTERVIEWER:" "A very junior examiner, who didn't have a great scientific background, initially rejected." "So tell me your thoughts on how that might have happened." "Well, I was not that close to the specifics of examination of applications in the office." "[Clears throat]" "JOSEPH NEWMAN:" "I'd like for you to ask some very honest, objective questions, and I think you will be impressed with what you hear." "In my personal view, it appeared that I don't really think Judge Jackson was happy with the whole proceeding." "I don't think he wanted to be there." "One of the first things he said was that, I don't have a background in electrical engineering." "I'm not qualified to rule on this." "Can you imagine sitting there having had people, dueling experts, when you have no expertise in the matter, and then being a judge trying to sort out what's a right and fair decision?" "EVAN SOULE, JR:" "So he proceeded to the judge." "We've got more than 30 affidavits of scientists who have tested it for themselves." "They say it works." "Why won't you accept this is evidence?" "Jackson said, I have to have an independent analysis of this done." "L have to bring in what he called a Special Master." "A Special Master is a function that the court has for areas of expertise the court feel it doesn't have to inform and make recommendations to the judge as to how the judge should handle the matter." "[Music playing]" "Schuyler was not only a Former Commissioner of the Patent Law, he was also an engineer himself." "I don't know that there could have been a better commendation by the court for someone with expertise to make a recommendation to the court." "That's why I think Judge Jackson appointed Skyler." "Jackson said, Mr. Newman, the Special Master will nail it right down." "And then I can rule on it." "If I rule in your favor, you can go forward with your patent." "NEWSCASTER:" "Today marks use of Newman's third trip to federal court in less than a year." "Each trip has cost him, on the average, $30,000." "The future would seem to hold more court appearances and more expenses." "[Machine spinning]" "I just meet the need as it comes." "Of course it's not easy, but I've been doing it for 20 years." "So it's not new to me." "And I just keep fighting." "Because I'm right." "NARRATOR:" "I think that this invention eventually became more than an invention to him." "It was more like his family." "EVAN SOULE, JR:" "This is his life's work." "This is the most important thing, not just for himself, but for humanity." "So Joe had to fight with everything he had." "The Special Master spent some time going over all the evidence, testing the technology for himself, spent at least a month or two." "[Music playing]" "I don't know exactly what he was experiencing." "And frankly, I was a little bit nervous." "[Music playing]" "Hi, hi, hi." "Good to see you." "EVAN SOULE, JR:" "We were called in to get back into the court room with Thomas Jackson." "The Special masters finding was presented to Judge Jackson." "[Music playing]" "Schuyler said, this machine works." "The evidence is overwhelming that Joseph Newman has built a machine that there's greater external energy output than external energy input." "Now [chuckles]." "[Applause]" "We were pleasantly surprised." "I was very happy with that." "Joe was overjoyed." "And we thought that should basically settle it." "We were so anxious for him to get the money to produce these things and develop them." "EVAN SOULE, JR:" "The attorney, Jere Sears, for the patent office, and John Flannery, met with the judge." "The judge have these findings of the Special Master before him." "Jere Sears immediately objected to the judge about the Special Master's report." "He said, well, Your Honor, I'm assuming you're not going to believe in the tooth fairy." "[Music playing]" "The patent office dissed their former commissioner and disagreed with his report." "So they questioned it." "They attacked it." "Interestingly enough, the tooth fairy was basically the only reply that the Patent" "Office had at that point to the Special Master's findings." "So the judge has a report from a former commissioner, who is unbiased, who's got no stake in it." "And then on the other hand, it has the Patent Office defending its institutional position." "And as a result, Judge Jackson refused to accept the findings of his own master." "[Music playing]" "At that point, everyone felt there was something going on in the backroom." "The judge said that what we need is more testing." "Now according to judicial code, a judge is not going to accept the findings of his own master, he has to present clear evidence why he refuses to accept those findings." "Well, it's close to 25 plus years, and were still waiting for the judge's response." "REPORTER:" "Mr. Sears, could we have a word with you please, sir?" "Well, I've got to catch the carpool now." "OK, just a quick one." "How can you disagree with the Master that you recommended that said the evidence was overwhelming?" "Well, there's no stipulation between the parties that we'd be bound by the Master's finding." "Again, the Master, that's former Head of the Patent" "Office, who has credentials that the judge called outstanding, why wouldn't you go along with the man that you recommended in granting a patent'?" "You ask mean questions, don't you?" "I think you'd have to address that question to our present Commissioner." "Are you acting on his orders?" "You might say that, yes." "INTERVIEWER:" "Do you understand why [inaudible] ruling would have been thrown out?" "No." "INTERVIEWER:" "And not used by the judge at that time?" "No." "No." "Why is this happening?" "Who is against you?" "I mean, I don't understand." "Well, it's quite obvious the US Patent Office is against me." "And I also have that belief about this judge is against me, that is biased and prejudiced." "He has not followed the dictates of the law." "And the facts are very clear." "They're there." "And to talk about adding insult to injury." "EVAN SOULE, JR:" "Judge Jackson submit a bill to Joe Newman." "Short of $12,000 for the Special Master's report." "That Joe Newman was required by the court to pay." "And he did." "OK, now if you were charged $11,500 for a Master guys who's supposed to be the referee of this game." "Your referee tells you, at a cost to you..." "Now you're paying $11,500 for this referee." "You won to game." "Then a judge says, oh, no, let's play a new game now." "How would you feel?" "[Music playing]" "My mother, she used to come over here and see us in the orphanage home." "And I wondered why my brother would run to her." "And I'd ask him, why do you do that?" "He said, that's my mother." "Well, it's my mother too, but I didn't feel anything." "You been my mother and you been my father." "I tell you, young people stupid, because I could steal from them." "I'd go in to the drugstore, and I'd wait until they turn around to wait on somebody." "Then I'd pick up a whole box of cigarettes, take it, and walk out with them like I had paid for it." "And I didn't care about grown people, and it didn't make a difference if they were there or not me." "I mean, I didn't care." "But my brother didn't understand me." "And he said, Joseph, God's going to punish you." "[Music playing] [phone ringing]" "MAN ON PHONE:" "You need to stop working on this device or you will be eliminated." "[Dial tone]" "I received death threats, and I know Joe did too." "[Music playing]" "Whether the threats were creditable or not, we decided, no matter what, we were going to go ahead and get his invention out there." "OK!" "Of course, a patent fight was ongoing." "Judge Jackson threw the Newman case back to the Patent Office." "The National Bureau of Standards and the Commerce Department was cooperating with the Patent Office to set up these tests." "At this particular point in our struggle..." "What's the answer to the energy crisis?" "EVAN SOULE, JR:" "He had been featured by national "CBS Evening News."" "DAN RATHER:" "In the backwoods of Mississippi, a mild..." "EVAN SOULE, JR:" "Dan Rather "Evening News" literally broke the story wide open." "He's on "60 Minutes."" "JOSEPH NEWMAN:" "Realize the energy in a magnetic field." "Radio interview." ""Life Magazine."" "JOHN FLANNERY:" "Hundreds of magazines, newspapers around the country, and in other parts of the world." "[Non-english speech]" "It became a roller coaster ride of using media to generate media, doing every-thing we could to bring as much public pressure on this." "It's carried me over two decades of my life." "JOHN FLANNERY:" "We delivered the motor." "Thank you, gentlemen." "30 days come and go." "And we get a notice, you didn't deliver a machine in working order." "Well, excuse me." "It took you 30 days to figure that out." "Would you welcome please, Joseph Newman." "With all the publicity that Joe was garnering around the country by that time, Joe flew out for The Tonight Show." "I think one of the statements from the Patent Office was, whatever evidence you present is, I think, would be unable to give you a patent, because it's impossible, which is similar to what they said" if I remember..." "To the Wright brothers." "They were saying that three and a half years after they had flown." "They were still saying it." "That's one of the things that I hope to do, Johnny, is to draw a line, so that this type of injustice can never happen again." "At the time everybody watched Johnny Carson" "INTERVIEWER:" "Did you see the Carson appearance?" "No." "INTERVIEWER:" "He was going on the Johnny Carson" "Show cursing the Patent Office." "Didn't that have some sort of an effect?" "No." "Congressman Dan Burton of Indiana is introduced a bill into Congress, asking Congress to issue Joseph Newman a Pioneering Patent." "I'm Congressman Dan Burton." "The bureaucracy has given Mr. Newman, in my opinion, a run-around from day one." "What bothered me was, here's a man who had a machine, who had a lot of supporters." "So I thought that he ought to be able to get a patent, especially in view of the fact that other things had been patented which had no chance of success." "[Clears throat]." "JOHN FLANNERY:" "The National Bureau of Standards..." " OK, you ready to go?" " Yeah." "JOHN FLANNERY:" "They told us it wasn't in working order." "So we came there." "There's a loose wire, which was up when we delivered the machine." "What should we do'?" "In Joe's schematic, you can see where to put it." "You think you can do that on the phone?" "But they didn't do it for 30 days, why?" "JOSEPH NEWMAN:" "Came 1,000 miles to hook up a wire." "That's all that's necessary." "You 1,000 volts on that and unit will run." "It was obvious what was wrong, even to them." "I'd like to know where the input energy is'?" "We have answered this in writing!" "You people are dragging your feet!" "John, he'd like to know if you'll leave a battery pack?" "You don't have your own batteries?" "What kind of nonsense is this?" "You're tell me the National Bureau of Standards doesn't have its own batteries?" "Is that the answer?" "That's fine." "We're done." "Well, I want to understand this." "You want to us to contribute." "You don't have to understand anything." "He asked if you'd leave it." "Your answer is no." "Thank you." "You're an embarrassment to the nation!" "Tell us when you're going to be ready to begin tests!" "[Music playing]" "After we introduced that legislation," "I talked to people about trying to get them to co-sponsor my legislation." "[Music playing]" "Mr. Newman and Mr. Flannery." "Our senators, Thad Cochran's office, agreed to set up a Senate Hearing on the bill." "We want some testing of this." "And there's a good reason for that." "It's not just to give you..." "No, I am not." "Wait!" "Wait a minute!" "So the Patent Office is charged with making sure that, under existing science as they know it now..." "It surprises me that John Glenn wasn't more open to the idea." "Because he was one of those that worked on new, innovative ideas in the space program." "JOSEPH NEWMAN:" "They have people behind him, their advisors or whatever." "And every once in a while, this guy would lean over and whisper something in John's ear." "No, but..." "Other people were much more supportive of it." "And that hearing should have been about the Patent Office, how their procedure was more institutional biased than mission biased." "And it was taken off the tracks, if you will, by John Glenn." "I think probably he felt he was losing control of the project." "He got really pissed on a regular basis." "I could see the anger in his eyes at times." "I know that he was frustrated." "He's gotten a little shaky." "One time, the day before his big demonstration," "Joe could never really get the motor to run." "I say, Joe, before you can have the next demonstration, make sure things work." "He says, I'll think about it." "He never did." "[Music playing] [applause]" "He got a lot of attention, but the attention started to become not good attention." "The people that were there were looking at each other and shaking their heads." "This is not good." "There are so many things he was fighting, he lost sight of the track he was trying to follow, and just stopped pursuing it the way he should have." "I'm angry." "So I consider this war." "[Music playing]" "Second highest court in the land has ordered the National Bureau of Standards to test Newman's machine." "Thus far, no test procedures have been approved." "No testing done." "When are going to be getting ready to test this devise?" "This is English." "Come on." "Is it in working order?" "Why don't we just take everybody out of here." "No!" "You tell me yes or no, it's in working order!" "Why don't you do that?" "Why don't you guys..." "Yes or no." "You have our coats." "You have our equipment." "We're going to get it out of there." "Get it out of here." "Why don't you guys get out of here." "Is it in working order, yes or no?" "I'm going to take your silence that you are satisfied it's in working order yourself." "This whole process dragged on for months, and months, and months, having cost him all the legal expenses." "My legislation, I can't remember how many were killed." "I was frustrated." "It didn't go anywhere." "Even the puppet was saying, well, put up or shout out." "But you should be mad as hell!" "He was really upset." "Not printable." "Evan told me this himself, that Joe were berate him." "Evan just took it." "Can you all see it?" "Or you can't?" "Tell me." "As time went on, I became disillusioned, because he would reject all offers of help." "This thing still needs a lot of development." "JOSEPH NEWMAN:" "Anyone to stand against this invention, criminals!" "Nothing helps to bring it forth." "It takes its toll on you." "It's taken a toll on all of us." "I was really beat." "I was looking to get out." "I was [inaudible]." "JOSEPH NEWMAN:" "You're talking about advancement of humanity." "And then he had something in his personal life that was pretty bizarre." "JOSEPH NEWMAN:" "I am hereto give it to you." "It wasn't an instantaneous change." "JOSEPH NEWMAN:" "I want you to be happy and excited, for you to become angry." "By the time we really noticed it, he was pretty far along." "JOSEPH NEWMAN:" "Ellen told me something, that I am going crazy." "Whoa, what did he just say'?" "JOSEPH NEWMAN:" "Jesus, come back and get me." "I was really shocked when that marriage didn't last." "Jackson said that this was to save Joe Newman money." "People said, when can I get one for my house?" "We've got confidence beyond his ability." "I want to run my business with it." "The legal expenses." "The clock is ticking." "He can't do that on his own." "It's over $100,000." "We're hereto help you." "He doesn't... [explosion]" "RALPH HARTWELL:" "They've gotten poor results, because they have grounded the motor." "We have a picture in the patent." "There is no ground." "It's not connected to the ground." "And that is part of Joe's science." "[Machine turning]" "MILTON EVERETT:" "We weren't successful." "And to this day, I regret that, because I think that Mr. Newman was entitled to his patent." "[Music playing]" "EVAN SOULE, JR:" "He declared bankruptcy as a result, to protect what he had left." "Joe lost this house, his property, and everything he's done." "[Music playing]" "We're human." "And, yeah, I became very sad, depressed, and decided to become a workaholic, and just work as much as I could to put this out of my mind for a while." "Joe went through all of his struggles, but yet he never strayed from his goal." "He's going to be committed to bringing this technology forth for the rest of his life." "I have no doubt about that." "[Music playing]" "GARLAND ROBINETTE:" "Evan and I talked about it at length." "Joe wasn't going to get anywhere with the approach that he was using." "There was really nothing we could do about it." "He's a heavyweight." "He's probably in the 10th round of a 15 round battle." "And he ain't been knocked down yet." "He's capable." "Yeah, he's a powerful man, probably still is." "Never met anybody like Joe Newman." "I think even when it quit covering it," "I thought there was something too." "[Music playing]" "Yeah, because that's the equation for power." "Power is force times distance divided by the time." "So the longer it takes you on a workout, the weaker you are." "The faster you do it, the stronger you are." "[Breathing heavily] So I push hard." "There ain't a guy in here who can match me." "Now if you think that is easy, you come try it. [Laughs]" "INTERVIEWER:" "Now I understand you used to be a boxer?" "I never did get in a boxing ring, because I knew I could kill people." "[Breathing heavily]" "INTERVIEWER:" "Are you in preparation for a fight?" "Always, always." "Boom, bow!" "Trying to move your hands that quick." "Pow!" "Pow!" "[Music playing]" "There's been a lot of scientists that have committed suicide, that had good ideas, but they couldn't stand the pressure they ran against, the negative pressure, and kill theirself." "INTERVIEWER:" "You had a home." "You had a wife." "You had a child." "And all it was being taken away from you because of this motor." "But I say, because what God put me through, all the stuff you're asking me, did I ever get beat out'?" "No." "I just got more angry." "And I had rubber that was that thick." "And I put it on a steel plate and had it welded to it." "And then I'd beat it." "And you can see how my knuckles are." "And I just boom!" "Pow!" "Pow!" "Pow!" "Pow!" "Pow!" "Pow!" "Pow!" "Well, I'm not do any business on Thursdays." "Because that's my worship day." "INTERVIEWER:" "OK, do you have a specific way you do it?" "[Chewing] Well, I just mean with God." "The world is getting worse and worse." "They're all admitting we're not getting nothing to work the way we want to, but instead, running still negative." "And we lost so many jobs." "And everything is going to pot." "All you've got to do is just listen to the stock market." "You don't hear the stock market is going to go way." "They worry about the stock market just falling even more, that's what they're worried about." "But the oil companies are making the biggest profit they've ever made in their history." "Because everything is still tied to the oil industry." "And that's why they fought me tooth and nail." "That didn't want to test technology out." "NEWSCASTER:" "This conspiracy is not against Joseph Newman." "It's against you, the people." "[Music playing]" "Slowly here now." "We're on the I-35, Joseph." "It says Denton I-35." "But it says Denton exit 1 mile." "That's not for I-35." "Well, what's the sign say?" "It says 35 something." "Oh, yeah." "Here we go." "So you're fine." "INTERVIEWER:" "So tell me about how you met Joe." "Well, interestingly enough, I at some point" 2006, there about..." "I began to feel that we were running towards a cliff as a civilization, because of energy." "And burning fossil fuels... coal, and gasoline, and so forth." "So I decided that I would try, if possible, to become a conduit for information that might help us find a new energy source." "So I even went to a hypnotist to try to make myself receptive to energies of this sort." "And I saw Joseph on the television." "And I thought, well, there's no need for me to do anything." "That man's already done it." "I just need to help him." "All right, how does this machine strike you, when you first look at it'?" "Come on back here." "I need to show you something." "Yeah, this is much bigger than anything I've seen in the past." "You see how big this machine is, 7,500 pounds, 10 horsepower." "I'd been pretty much his sole support." "I had accumulated some rental property." "And that was going to be for retirement, but I ended up selling three of the properties just to keep things going for Joseph." "All right, you can see how low this is even now." "That's the point." "You're not even pulling an amp, and you're running that 7.500 pound motor." "Nobody in my extended family believes that Joseph could do this." "INTERVIEWER:" "Your family thinks you're nuts?" "Yes, they think I'm nuts." "My son, he thinks it's all a farce to get my money." "My wife, she just left." "And she got a divorce through the internet, which is kind of interesting." "And then it wasn't too long after that that Joseph moved in with me." "I traded a wife for Joseph." "I was on Johnny Carson." "I was on there for 23 minutes." "He got the biggest response anybody had been on his show." "40 scientists had endorsed this by looking at the oscilloscope, the most accurate measuring device in the world." "[Machine turning]" "This technology is ready to be mass produced for the people of the Earth." "And it will do away with pollution and contamination." "I've done this through a lot of deep experimentation, and thought, and prayer." "And God's given it to me." "Because I've turned lightning into speed and [inaudible]." "[Machine spinning] [music playing]" "And, see, I know if the power brokers got this technology, you would never get it where you would own it." "What they would do is release it to you." "And then every year, they'd have some kind of flimsy excuse." "We got to raise the price of this lease." "But I'm hoping to get $100 million so I can start production of it." "At the time, when I was selling these properties, we had lots of money, I mean, relatively speaking." "Nothing to put us into production, but to keep things going." "And it was good times." "I thought for sure any day now the money man is going to walk in and we're going to be in production." "And now we're getting close to being our back against the wall financially." "But I think we're safe for another year, hopefully." "INTERVIEWER:" "What do you think the plan is for the future'?" "To keep the momentum going, and keep doing what I was doing." "That's how I'd make money." "And God has given me that ability." "And I've seen all of the people who've been around me, they fell away because they can't stand the pressure," "Garland, Bobby Matherne, and everybody, they stepped away, just like Evan." "They were scared, because the power brokers might shut them down." "Going through what I have gone through growing up, and God made me like steel, you couldn't take the power brokers." "That's what I told my mother." "God did all this." "And I used to blame you." "But he put me through it." "I started picking up a big steel anvil that weighed 400 pounds." "I still got those muscles that run down my back." "You can't see my spine, because the muscles run up and down my back." "I am a tiger." "And people should appreciate that." "But I'm a tiger for humanity!" "I went and stood on a mountain one night, and I talked with God." "My vow was I want death if you don't give me what I want." "I want to change this evil that I see all over this Earth!" "And change it." "L care!" "[Growls] But I do care!" "So I want you to know how I am." "I'm going to tell you right up front." "When a guy comes to me, and you want to challenge me, you think you've got to steel that I've got, you ain't coming close to it." "Because I'm going to jump down your throat." "And I'm going to say, this is a law!" "I think you're nothing but crap!" "And I'd kill you in a frigging second!" "I don't trust nobody." "You think I would sell this to you?" "You think I'd sell it to her'?" "To him?" "No." "You all can be gotten to." "I cannot be gotten to, not for threats, not for anything." "And fact, the people who ever call me the threat, they get off the phone and hang up." "I said, God is going to kill you before you get off the phone." "He's going to kill your wife." "He's going to kill your kids." "And they hang up on me!" "INTERVIEWER:" "Just so you understand, none of these people are hereto buy the motor." "We all support you, because we care about the technology, just so you're really clear on that." "OK." "INTERVIEWER:" "That's one reason were here." "[Phone beeps]" "MAN ON PHONE:" "OK, Jon, Joseph." "I'm just wondering if God has worked a miracle for you today." "Today is a special day for me." "But anyway, just checking." "Just wondering if anything good happened for you today." "Have a good one." "God bless." "Bye bye." "INTERVEIWER:" "We want to bring some local scientists to the demonstrations." "Also bringing investors, bring someone who might want to develop the motor." "Well, I'm not turning the machine over to them." "No way." "Right." "Not for all the money in hell." "INTERVEIWER:" "They're going to come just for the demonstration." "This is just a hello." "Does that sound good?" "OK." "[Music playing]" "The energy in a magnetic field is matter in motion." "When you say matter in motion, that's just like a running river." "Now what I want you all to understand is that 375 pound mud pump, it'll be so hard to turn it." "Yet, I can hook it to these batteries and it'll take off." "But it's not drawing any current." "And every textbook, that you all have learned to look out of, will tell you the motors run off a current." "That is a lie." "Any scientist who says other than that is a liar!" "But what I'm saying to you all..." "Because this is some God's given me for humanity." "It's a vow I made standing on a mountain as a young man." "And I'm 77 now." "But I'm young." "Now with that, we'll just hook it up and start running." "If you all need to ask me a question, you better ask it quick, because I'm going to run this thing." "Go for it." "Yeah, we're ready to see it." "I'm hooking this is a positive." "And I'm going to hook this to the negative, so you understand what I'm doing." "[Music playing]" "JOSEPH NEWMAN (VOICEOVER):" "This prototype is simply to prove the merit of this theory very quickly." "A very compact, small device can be produced for the consumer probably in a couple years of time that they could buy for a home, a automobile, a airplane, that's basically it, but whatever." "And once they buy that device, they'll never have to pay for energy again." "[Music playing] [machine spinning] [laughing]" "[phone ringing]" "JOSEPH NEWMAN (ON PHONE):" "Hello." "JOHN FOX (ON PHONE):" "Hey, Joe." "John Fox." "How are you?" "JOSEPH NEWMAN (ON PHONE):" "Good." "JOHN FOX (ON PHONE):" "I got it from the investor who we met together in Texas." "Mike was his name." "And he was interested in developing another generation of prototype." "He's got a few bucks he can put into it." "And he's got engineers that could work with you in a pretty sophisticated lab." "He wanted to make a real slick prototype." "What should I let him know?" "JOSEPH NEWMAN (ON PHONE):" "He said what now?" "JOHN FOX (ON PHONE):" "He wanted to really get a motor like that built." "JOSEPH NEWMAN (ON PHONE):" "Well, this is going to be something phenomenal." "And it'll run everything." "I know I've got something that nobody else has ever done." "I'm ready to build this and prove that it'll run." "[Music playing] [dog barking]" "Hey, John." "Jim Jordan." "Jim, how are you doing, bud?" "Fine." "Hey, sir, how you doing today?" "Yeah, good." "How about yourself?" "Not too bad." "Good, good." "What I'd like to do is focus on one thing." "And let's see if we can make that work." "And one of my suggestions yesterday, and you seemed to have liked it, was creating an air conditioner." "When you get this machine, your electrical bill, as far as your air condition, is zero." "Right." "So you agree, that's a good market?" "It's a phenomenal market." "Like I told you yesterday, I'm sold." "I'm ready." "And now I'm willing to do what it takes to build one of these." "We'll see if we can put it on the market." "So now let's go ahead and put it together and do it." "Well, the first thing I want to do, because I don't want..." "Let me just say how I am." "I don't trust you." "I don't trust anyone." "I've had too much damn experience with business people." "Their word don't mean shit to me." "Because I've seen all these people tell me they going to do good things." "And they were liars." "I'm interested in, right now, just getting enough money to put this motor in a car." "I'm going to go buy a Cadillac right here." "I'm going to take that engine out, put this engine in." "Maybe there's another way we can do this without doing the car." "Because the air conditioning, it makes sense for the kind of businesses that I'm doing." "I understand that." "But I'm not going to commit to you that I'm going to..." "From that it can fund your car, or something else." "Well, then I don't think we can deal anything right now then." "Because I'm sure not going to make a deal with you that I'm going to tell you" "I don't know you from crap." "I wouldn't sell it for no million dollars." "Joe." "Joe, I didn't ask you to sell it." "I'm just trying to talk to you about a deal." "You don't have to get mad." "I'm not trying to make you mad." "I'm just telling you." "I'm your friend here." "There's no reason to get mad about this." "That's not really when I do." "You want me to stop what I'm doing and kiss your ass and put it for you." "Not no, hell no." "No, I didn't ask you to." " Yes, you did." " No, I didn't." "Yes, you did." "You're not interested in what I want first." "Well, no, I did." "I want to know what you do." "All I was saying that I think an air conditioning will make a bigger impact faster than the cars, to be honest with you, sir." "I may be wrong, but..." "I can sell stock." "I've got another guy coming to see me right after you, Monday, or Tuesday." "And he's got $100 million." "So don't tell me what I can do and can't do." "You don't know me from crap." "I don't." "I was just asking." "Well, I know what I've already done." "And it's a hell of a lot more than you'll ever do in your damn life!" "All your life, you will never be remembered." "I will be remembered!" "OK." "I don't need you to get done what I want done." "Joe, I'm sorry." "I'm making you mad..." "Yes, you are." "And I apologize." "JON FOX:" "You know, Joe." "No, I ain't going to change, John." "So don't be bringing me any other people like this." "I'm" "JON FOX:" "I'm confused." "OK." "JON FOX:" "You were on The Johnny Carson Show and you rented out the Superdome." "Why hasn't this happened yet?" "And so I'm bringing you someone who wants to make it happen." "I don't understand why we can't do something." "Well, it's very simple." "Because you're ignorant if you can't see it." "And I'll just tell you straight out." "You're stupid, and you're ignorant." "You don't know a damn thing about business!" "That's the way you give your damn technology away, the way you're talking about." "Not, no, hell, no!" "I'd ain't giving it to no son of a bitch!" "Well, I've done studies a lot of innovators." "And have a few things in common." "One is, they're generally orphans." "So they tend to be very distrustful of other people." "And they tend to be very protective of their creations." "It's sort of their offspring, their family that they never had." "It's like you're very careful who you entrust your family with." "[Music playing]" "JOSEPH NEWMAN (VOICEOVER):" "My brother, well, he was like my mother and father." "Now he used to tell me, when I'd steal stuff," "God's going to punish you." "I was thinking other things that God might do." "He might make me get my leg broke or something." "I said, well, I deserve it." "And it was interesting." "I've always been intelligent." "But it never dawned on me that God would punish me by killing him." "[Music playing]" "And I cried for two years when he drowned, because I missed him so much." "And then it finally dawned on me." "It makes you want to fight for what's right, makes your character..." "You become devoted." "Well, I'm going to fight this all my life." "NEWSCASTER:" "Joseph Newman." "[Applause]" "I wanted to change all this disparity between wealth and poverty all over the Earth." "I can do something good for humanity." "[Machine spinning]" "That's why I would never sell this invention the power brokers of the world." "That means any son of a bitch that tells me that, I don't trust you to do it, Joe Newman," "I want to do it." "And you give it to me." "And let me make it." "And let me do it." "No, hell, no." "I've seen too many goddamn people who are goddamn liars!" "And it makes me want to crash their damn skull!" "That's the way I feel inside." "And God has given it to me." "And he's kept me young so I can do it." "Don't ever bring me anyone like that!" "Because it makes me dislike you." "Are you smart enough to understand that?" "I'm sorry I ever met you, because you lied to me that you'd never betray me." "When you do something opposite of what I want, you betray me!" "JON FOX:" "I don't understand how this was a betrayal." "Like Milton Everett, went into business with the power brokers." "I've had a lot of people who have betrayed me, and betrayed humanity, and swore that they wouldn't." "JON FOX:" "You can't do it your own." "You need other people to come on board at some point." "I'll get this done without you!" "I don't have to have you!" "I don't have to have anyone!" "It ain't you who got me all this publicity me back in the '80s and all in the worldwide attention." "It was my work, my blood!" "And all you all come along and suck ass, and then say, like, well, you're doing it." "Well, you're not doing it!" "JON FOX:" "You're 77 years old now, right?" "Where does this go?" "No one's going to live to 200 years old." "Well, you're full of shit." "Now you're stupid, and you're crazy!" "Let's just end it." "And I don't want you to call me again, do you understand that?" "Joseph, wait, wait a sec." "No!" "I'm fed up with you." "Maybe John doesn't understand." "No, well, I'm telling you." "You've got a fucking sense of nothing!" "You see this goddamn fist?" "I can put it through your scull!" "I don't want you around me again!" "JON FOX:" "Joe, I'm just trying to help." "No, you're not!" "When you tell me shit like that, it makes me want to spit in your fucking face." "You ain't done shit, you dumb fuck." "You ain't put a bit of blood on the table." "You coward, goddamn son of a bitch!" "Don't tell me that you're a man above me and I can't get something done." "You ain't fit to wipe my man damn shoes!" "You want to say something to piss me off and think I'm going to take it." "Well, I don't take it, you fucking idiot!" "JON FOX:" "I'm not trying to piss you off." "Yes, you are." "And you're doing it." "You must be fucking stupid!" "JON FOX:" "You want to end it?" "Yeah, let's end it." "And get the hell out of here!" "JON FOX:" "I'm getting out." "Get out!" "[Music playing]" "When you think about all of the perpetual motion machines that I have ever researched..." "And I have researched a lot of them... they were all disproven, most of them [snaps]" "Just like that." "This one never got disproven." "So just see if that grain of sand in the universe that says it does work, and we never know, that's a tragedy." "[Music playing]"