"Is heaven a hope?" "Or as real as the earth and sky?" "I once asked my grandfather that question." "And he said by the time he knew the answer it would be too late for him to tell me." "The day would come when I asked that question again, staring into the eyes of my son." "Mighty quick." "I don't get paid by the hour." "I'm afraid you don't get paid by cash, either." "Are you sure you're okay with the carpet?" "Times are tough." "Your business improves, mine will, too." "Why don't you grab a hose?" "Did you rob a carpet store, Todd?" "Unlike you guys, I actually have a job." "Look at these bums." "And he's got five of them." "Do you want some help?" "You know, if you keep accepting things instead of money, eventually, you're going to run out of things and money." "Yeah, I have to downsize, man." "Downsize." "You ladies just keep your seats." "Todd and I got this." "Yeah, don't help." "Not necessary." "No problem." "Longhorns, let's go!" "Line it up!" "Show me what you got!" "Coach is late!" "Go, go, Burpos, Burpos!" "Let's go, Davidson!" "You were slacking last week." "These ladies are watching." "That's it, that's it." "That's what I'm talking about right there." "I want you and you up." "♪ Every blessing" "♪ Tune my heart to sing Thy grace ♪" "Every Monday." "♪ Never ceasing" "♪ Call for songs of loudest praise" "♪ Teach me some melodious sonnet" "♪ Sung by flaming tongues above ♪" "Hang on, hang on, hang on." "We gotta work on that pitch, ladies." "It's a little bit..." "Well, it's a little bit pious." "Shall we try it one more time?" "♪ Come, Thou Fount of every blessing" "♪ Tune my heart to sing Thy grace" "♪ Streams of mercy, never ceasing" "♪ Call for songs of loudest praise ♪" "Okay, once more." "♪ Come, Thou Fount of every blessing ♪" "There's my guy." "Daddy!" "How are you?" "What's happening?" "How are you doing?" "How was your day, huh?" "What's going on in there?" "Mom has a house full of women and Cassie thinks she's one, too." "Oh, no." "Ooh, they're singing." "♪ Tongues above ♪" "Todd's home." "All right, how about boy's night out, we go get some pizza?" "Pizza Palace?" "Really?" "What do you think?" "What do you think?" "Does that sound good?" "What kind are you going to get?" "Uh, cheese." "No, you're not." "Cheese." "Cheese." "What's wrong, Dad?" "There are some people over at the hospital and they want me to come by." "♪ To sing Thy grace ♪" "I'll go with you." "You're going to go with me?" "Mmm-hmm." "I don't know if that's such a good idea." "It might be a little sad or a little scary." "That's all right." "If I'm with you, I won't be afraid." "You're coming with me, then." "Hospital and pizza." "Hospital and pizza." "Let's go." "You know what we say when we're hungry?" "Oh, there's the doctor." "Reverend Burpo." "Todd." "Todd." "Yeah." "My name is Lee." "My father asked for a pastor." "Would you mind talking to him?" "Sure." "Great." "Sure." "Are you okay, pal?" "Mmm-hmm." "He's in here." "My name's Todd." "I'm here to pray for you." "Is there anything you're sorry for?" "Everything." "I believe God forgives." "And if he forgives anything, he forgives everything." "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name." "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." ""And then said to the lion, 'Of all the deaths"" ""'we could have died, this is the one we would have chosen."'" "Take your blanket." "Night-night." "Dad." "Yeah?" "I prayed for the sick man." "We're currently looking at 62 degrees with winds out of the south-southwest at 13 miles an hour." "Lows expected to be in the mid-to upper..." "When Jay offered us a house as a part of my salary, he never mentioned the rail road." "I like the rumble." "It's romantic." "How tight are we this month?" "No, don't talk about money." "Slim Forrest couldn't pay for those garage doors." "He donated some carpet for the church instead." "But he said he had the cash when he placed the order." "Um..." "Things changed." "You had a rough day, didn't you?" "As long as I'm with you, I'm not afraid." "You're good." "But let me tell you something." "The next time I'm practicing your favorite hymn and you howl like a dog," "I'm going to whip you like a dog." "Oh." "Do you hear me?" "Doesn't sound so bad." "Stop." "♪ For!" "love the little children of the world" "♪ I will take you by the hand" "♪ Lead you to a better land" "♪ For!" "love... ♪" "Do you think Mom realizes how funny she looks when she does that?" "No." "And we're not going to tell her, are we?" "♪ All the children of the world" "♪ Red and yellow, black and white" "♪ All are precious in his sight" "♪ Jesus loves the little children of the world ♪" "High five." "Really good." "Really good, Douglas." "Voices of angels, right?" "Well, this morning I want to talk to you about what sort of commitment makes a marriage, makes a relationship, makes up a life." "Last night," "I stood in the bedroom where our children sleep and I listened to their mother read them a bedtime story." "And in the final saga of this wonderful land where animals talk with humans and a great lion leads them all to love and faith and courage." "In the last chapter of this great story, written for children just like me and Mrs. Davis over here, all of the lion's enemies have swept away his followers except for two, a bear and a unicorn," "who are trapped in a cave with the lion." "And because the entrance to this cave is narrow, the wave after wave of soldiers that the evil king sends in to try and kill them can't do it." "The lion, the bear, the unicorn, they fight them off." "So finally, the king sends in a messenger." "He says, "Look, the one that we really want,"" ""the one we're interested in, is that lion."" ""Give him up and the rest of you will live."" ""Ah, the unicorn, we're going to cut his horn off."" ""We'll make him pull a cart for the rest of his life."" ""The bear, we're going to put in chains and shackles,"" ""make him dance in the circus."" ""But both of you will live."" ""All you have to do is give up that lion."" "Finally, the lion looks at his friends with that look in his eyes," ""What are you going to do?"" "And the bear and the unicorn, they just smile and they say, "Of all the deaths that we could have died"," ""this right here is the one we would have chosen."" "But the bear and the lion and the unicorn, they weren't looking for an easy road." "I don't think Jesus was either when he accepted the cross." "There's a lot of people, they don't believe that story any more than the one about the lion, the bear, and the unicorn." "I'm here with you all this morning because I believe in them both." "And I'll never give up that lion." "Rosa." "Soma." "How are you?" "I'm good." "I have something I wanted to give you." "It's just something small." "Thank you." "Oh, Sonja, this is too beautiful." "No." "Not for her." "I'll see you guys next Sunday." "Yeah." "Take care." "Look, baby." "Sonja gave it to us for Lucia." "Wow." "It's gorgeous." "You're great when I'm there to inspire you." "If you want to inspire me, you get a hit at that softball game this afternoon." "Outstanding." "I will." "Watch that ball like that." "Embarrassing." "He's a good batter." "Embarrassing." "All right, Jay!" "Hold up." "Let's go, baby." "Come on, Sonja!" "Come on, Mama!" "All right!" "Let's go, Sonja!" "Two more!" "Come on, Mama." "Go!" "Go!" "Go, go, go!" "Out!" "No!" "No, he knocked it loose." "He's safe!" "Safe." "There you go." "You can't do that, man." "That's dirty." "Or what?" "Is there a problem?" "Is there a problem?" "I'm all right." "You just got me warmed up, baby." "You got me warmed up now." "Come on, baby." "Yeah, let's go." "Easy out." "Yeah, Todd!" "Go, Sonja!" "Yes!" "Come on, Todd!" "Safe." "Safe." "Michael, Michael!" "It's bad, it's bad!" "Hold on, let me look." "Don't move." "Get my bag." "Yeah, yeah." "Are you okay?" "Todd, just stay still, buddy." "We have to cut your pants, Todd." "Don't touch it!" "It's a spiral fracture." "Is it going to heal?" "It'll heal, but he won't be climbing any ladders soon." "Todd, just stay still, buddy." "I'm going to put some pressure on it, Todd, okay?" "Todd, we gotta lift it up, buddy." "We gotta lift it up." "As many of you already know," "I was hurt sliding into third." "I was safe." "No, he was out." "Okay, I was out." "I, uh, had a great teacher early in the ministry who told me that we'd have good days and bad days and we'd seldom know at the time which is which." "But a few Sundays ago, as I was sliding into third and I heard the crack of my leg," "I had a pretty good idea which was which." "So, the Bible talks about adversity." "The Bible talks about, uh, all things working together for the good." "Todd!" "What..." "Okay, I'm all right." "It's my back." "Are you all right?" "Don't move." "Lie down." "I'm on it." "It's Pastor Todd." "He's fallen." "Nancy, sing Amazing Grace." "Don't move, don't move." "It's just a spasm." "It's my back." "It's my back." "♪ Amazing Grace" "♪ How sweet the sound" "♪ That saved a wretch" "♪ Like me ♪" "It's, uh, kidney stones again." "Yeah." "All we can do is give you painkillers and lots of water and let you pass them." "Okay." "Thank you." "Thank you, Doctor." "You're going to be all right." "Jay!" "Hey." "Todd's passing another stone, so Colton and I, we're going to the park." "All right." "Giddyup, horsey!" "Oh, horseys bite." "Did I tell you that?" "How's he doing?" "Todd?" "Todd?" "I'm passing another one!" "Todd, it's Jay!" "How are you doing, buddy?" "Can I do anything for you?" "What, do you want to try and catch it?" "No." "That's not what I had in mind." "Uh, how many have you passed?" "I've passed seven, Jay!" "Seven!" "Oh, that's a bunch." "I think they usually say you gotta pass about 14, 15 to make sure they're gone." "What do you want?" "Well, uh, you know, we're sort of wondering when you think you might be able to preach again." "Okay, thank you." "From the prison ministry." "Giving is a good..." "He's used to captive audiences." "Holy Spirit." "Holy Spirit." "She's from the seminary." "If Todd isn't back soon, I'm going to kill somebody." "And I'm going to start with you." "Holy Spirit." "Use an anvil." "We need to get out of town." "A family getaway." "I know a great place." "Denver." "Denver?" "Mmm-hmm." "We can bring the kids, go for a weekend." "When?" "I don't know." "Soon." "No, honey." "I have to focus on work." "We need it." "We've got to get some bills paid." "You need it." "All right, well..." "There's no way, I'm telling you." "Okay." "I'm just saying, if you did," "I would, um..." "Now?" "Okay." "Not now." "Huh?" "If you say we can go." "Kids, we're going to Denver!" "♪ This little light of mine I'm gonna let it shine" "♪ This little light of mine I'm gonna let it shine" "♪ Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine ♪" "Could we sing We Will Rock You?" "♪ Buddy you're a boy Make a big noise" "♪ Playing in the street Gonna be a big man some day" "♪ You got mud on your face" "♪ You big disgrace" "♪ Kicking your can all over the place" "♪ Singing "We will, we will rock you" ♪" "I wouldn't want to eat a monarch." "They taste so bad." "You wouldn't want to eat it?" "Yeah, for sure." "Ooh..." "He's coming home with us." "Do you see his eyes?" "He wants to..." "No, he wants..." "Oh, there he goes." "Dad, speed up." "Look!" "Here's a butterfly." "Yeah, look at that one." "Oh, my gosh." "Look!" "They've got a place where you can hold a tarantula." "There's one." "Ooh." "A butterfly." "Pretty good, right?" "Let's follow that guy." "Oh..." "What do you think?" "Is she soft?" "Yeah." "I did it, I did it!" "You sure did." "I want a sticker." "If you want a sticker, you have to get in there and hold Rosie." "Colton, why don't you try?" "No." "Hello, Doctor, it's Sonja Burpo." "Colton started throwing up on the way home in the car." "Cassie!" "No, I don't." "Cassie." "Oh, Cassie." "Honey." "Oh." "Yeah." "Todd!" "I'm coming, I'm coming." "Oh, oh!" "His temperature is 103." "Oh, keep it in there." "And Cassie is throwing up now also." "Oh, don't get any in your hair." "Don't get any in your hair." " Honey." "Thank you." "Thank you." " Those are chunks." "You've got to chew your food." "The doctor says that, uh, the flu's been going around and..." "Todd!" "Hey, this is Todd Burpo," "Overhead Garage Door, Imperial, Nebraska." "That's right." "Right." "I got that big order for the 591 series doors." "B-U-R-P-O." "Okay, I'm sending in that deposit." "I'm going to pay that in full with the job completion, all right?" "Okay, thank you very much." "His fever's up." "I thought it was holding steady." "It was." "It's now 104." "It's been four days." "Cassie is fine." "I mean, could it be appendicitis?" "You had it in college." "I've had it." "Maybe this is the beginning of it." "I'm going to try to call..." "No, I already tried." "We've got to take him to the medical center." "Now." "All right." "Cassie!" "Todd, we need to hurry." "Faster, Todd." "He has a ruptured appendix." "We need to get him to surgery right away." "Call the OR." "Daddy, don't let them take me." "I'm right here, buddy." "Ruptured when?" "It looks like days ago." "He's very sick." "Dawn, run ahead, get everybody ready." "But how can that happen?" "The blotches on the X-ray are infected." "It exploded all through his abdominal cavity." "But he's going to be okay, right?" "We're going to get in there and clean him out." "You'll have to wait here." "Stay right there, please." "Are they ready for us in OR?" "I need his status ASAP." "I'll come with you." "No, no, I just need a minute." "You've made me suffer." "And I took that." "You made my family suffer and I took that." "You're going to take my boy?" "Don't you take my son." "Don't you take my son!" "His blood pressure is falling." "We're losing him." "Sonja." "How's Colton?" "We're in trouble here." "He's, um..." "He's not..." "He's not doing well." "He's worse." "He's much worse." "And I..." "No." "No." "Will you call some friends and ask them to pray for him?" "Of course, I will, honey." "Right now." "I'll pray for you, too." "Thank you." "Jay, we've got a problem." "Please help us watch over this little boy." "He's very precious." "I've heard him say so many times what a fine young man you are." "I have a favor I'd like to ask." "For our brother, for his family, for his boy." "Rosa, it's Nancy from the church." "Colton Burpo is in the hospital and he may not live." "Our Father who art in heaven..." "Mr. and Mrs. Burpo." "Colton." "Hi." "Hi, buddy." "Hi." "Dad, I want to hold that spider." "Wow." "I think it's amazing." "How is it?" "Fun." "Now you have to do it." "I'm not going to do it." "Do it, do it!" "I'm not doing it." "Do you want a sticker?" "Get the kid a sticker." "Okay." "Thank you." "You're welcome." "That's fun." "I've been here." "Here?" "I don't think we've been here before, pal." "Guess what." "What?" "I like spiders." "I saw that!" "You got a sticker." "You're not afraid anymore." "We don't ever have to be scared." "Is that why you wanted to come back, to show me you weren't afraid?" "It's important." "What about the hospital?" "How do you feel about that?" "Does that scare you?" "No, that's where the angels sang to me." "The angels sang to you?" "Yes." "When?" "During the operation, when Mom was in one room talking on the phone, and you were in another room yelling at God." "How did you know that?" "Because I saw you." "When did you see me?" "I lifted up and I looked down and saw the doctor working on me." "And I saw you and Mommy." "You saw..." " Hey." " Hey." "A storm's coming." "Are you setting records?" "You got a sticker, huh?" "It's a record." " How are you doing?" " Okay." "How was the trip?" "It was good." "Fine." "Just fine?" "It was amazing, actually." "Colton held that spider like he was holding his Spider-Man." "Come on." "Did he ever mention this idea to you of hearing, uh, angels singing?" "Not unless you're talking about you and me in the shower." "Todd, these bills, they are coming through." "How bad?" "$23,000." "I mean, do we have any receivables, anything we can collect at all?" "These utilities, we can put those off." "Now this one, I have to pay Jack Martin for those truck tires." "His wife is sick." "We've got a medical bill coming in as well. $34,000." "I thought this was part of the $23,000." "No." "That's just what we owe with medical supplies, living expenses, taxes." "I'm going to have to get a job." "I don't want to do that." "But you can't work any harder than you are." "We need you here." "You have to pay the doctor." "Of course, honey." "We're going to find some way to take care of that." "We've got to pay him." "He helped me." "I saw him." "Is something wrong with Colton?" "Why do you say that?" "Because sometimes he sounds weird." "He says Jesus has a horse." "Well, all sisters think their brothers are weird." "That's just the way it goes." "Okay?" "All right." "Okay, so, your dad's a preacher." "He knows a lot of things, but he didn't know that Jesus has a horse." "Didn't know that." "It's beautiful." "Yeah?" "What color is it?" "It's all the colors." "All the colors of the rainbow are in heaven, except they're all more." "More what?" "Just more and brighter." "How do you know about this horse?" "Because I saw him in heaven." "You were in heaven?" "Dad, can we talk about this tomorrow because I'm getting really sleepy." "Okay." "Dad, can I sleep in your room tonight?" "No." "No, we're going to go ahead and sleep here." "It's late, guys." "Come on." "Open the door!" "Sorry." "Hmm." "Are you asleep?" "Colton just told me he went to heaven." "What?" "When?" "Just now." "No, when did he go to heaven?" "He said that during his operation, he left his body, and he looked back on the operating table and saw himself." "He has a very beautiful imagination." "I'll do it, too." "I'll have the same thing." "Hi, how are you, Rosa?" "Can we get, uh..." "What do you think?" "Milkshake." "Two milkshakes, please." "How is everything?" "Okay, great." "So, Colton," "I want to ask you about when the angels sang to you." "Sure." "I was alone, but I wasn't scared." "I was at the church." "The door was closed." "I opened it." "And I saw something wonderful." "♪ Hallelujah" "I saw angels and they were singing to me." "Can we sing We Will Rock You?" "Colton, do you know who I am?" "You're not afraid?" "Nobody here wants to hurt me." "That's right, Colton." "And nobody here ever will." "There are some people here who want to meet you." "So, what did they sing?" "I asked them to sing We Will Rock You, but they wouldn't." "And they laughed just like that." "Mmm, milkshake." "Moreland University, Department of Psychology," "Chairman's office." "May I speak with Dr. Slater, please?" "Are you calling for an appointment?" "Yeah." "Is there any chance she could see me today?" "Dr. Slater?" "Yes." "Hi." "I'm Todd Burpo." "Oh, yes, please come in." "Thanks for, uh, seeing me on short notice." "Um, "Burpo." Are you a minister over in Imperial?" "Yeah." "Yes." "How'd you know that?" "Uh, my late husband was religious." "Please, sit." "Uh, he had heard about a speaker named Burpo who was very interesting and he kept badgering me to come hear you." "You're not?" "Not what?" "Religious." "No." "Is that a problem?" "No." "No, you might offer me a harder opinion, help me find a more rational understanding for something." "I have a son who's, uh, extremely smart." "And he's sensitive." "And?" "He went to heaven." "And then he came back." "Your son had a near-death experience?" "No, he didn't die." "We checked his surgical reports." "His heart never stopped, his brain activity never flatlined." "So, why do you say he went to heaven?" "Because he says he did." "At the point near death, the body releases hormones that can induce a state of peace, even bliss." "Our brains fill in the blanks." "Christians see Jesus, Jews see Moses, Muslims see Muhammad." "Yeah, I read your article, but my son saw things that I can't really explain." "He saw me praying." "He saw me shouting at God." "He saw his mother in another wing calling friends, asking them to pray for us." "All the while, he was in surgery." "Reverend Burpo..." "Todd." "Todd." "Is it unusual for your wife to call friends in a time of crisis?" "No." "No, it's not." "And is it unusual for you to pray?" "Or become passionate when you do?" "No." "No." "Of course not." "But I know my son." "And when he talks about heaven, it doesn't sound like something he's making up." "He's very specific." "He's four." "And he's extremely smart." "Yes." "Both of my kids are." "Reverend..." "Todd, I don't mean to discount whatever magic it is you derive from all of this, but there are many explanations, even for extrasensory knowledge." "Is it really easier to believe in that or clairvoyance or telepathy than it is life after the physical?" "Believe in miracles?" "I've found such concepts to be a bit circular." "Even before I watched my husband die." "Let me ask you, did you come here today because you were wondering about my faith?" "Or were you wondering about your own?" "Thanks for your time." "You're welcome." "What if you have an encounter so far beyond your own experience that it's" "irrational?" "What then?" "This looks like trouble here." "Todd, we're so happy about Colton." "Thank you." "Thanks." "Thank you very much." "See you later." "Good." "There he is." "How are you doing, buddy?" "Good." "How are you?" "How's that Colton doing today?" "Is he back to torturing his sister?" "Yes." "I need some advice, smart advice." "Well, I am not smart, so you came to the right guy." "I know that." "Nothing but clumsy, inaccurate advice available here." "I've been expecting to see you a little sooner." "What do you mean?" "Well, I'm your banker." "I didn't come here for a loan." "Not the bank's money, just from a friend to a friend." "Let me help you out, okay?" "Nobody would have to know." "I'd know." "I never wanted to be the guy who stands up there in the pulpit asking people to give to charity when all he does is take it." "It's not charity." "It's a loan from a friend to a friend." "I know you need the help." "It's what real people do." "I don't." "Well, then you didn't come here for smart advice." "I don't think the church has kept your salary in line with the new members that you've brought in." "I think you deserve a raise." "Let me talk to the board, see what I can do." "I didn't come here for a raise, either." "All right." "Good." "I didn't want to ask them." "What can I do for you?" "It's Colton." "He's been talking about this, uh..." "We ask these kids to believe this stuff and I don't even know if I believe it myself, Jay." "What?" "Colton is what I'm trying to tell you about." "He's been saying things I don't understand." "He's talking about these conversations in heaven." "I used to go out with a flight attendant whose son had extensive conversations with Barney the dinosaur." "Do you know how irritating Barney is?" "Yeah." "He's purple." "Exactly, exactly." "The Bible tells us to believe his children." "What my child's telling me will get me laughed out of this town." "That's what I'm saying." "I don't know what to preach." "I don't have anything to say." "Just speak from the heart, Todd, like you always do." "What about fear do we struggle with?" "Is it confusion?" "Is it doubt?" "Is it questions?" "I got questions." "We all do." "Maybe we ought to just..." "Maybe we ought to try that today." "Just see if, uh..." "Do you want to try questions?" "Hey, Todd." "Yeah?" "My family and I prayed for you a lot." "Thank you." "Thank you, Michael." "Uh, we're just wondering, how bad was it?" ""How bad?" It was awful." "I mean, a lot of us heard that Colton died during the operation and prayers brought him back to life." "Uh, no, he didn't die on the operating table." "He, you know, came mighty close, but I think it was the doctors, through God and all of your prayers, that kept him alive and so thank you all for that." "So, how did you handle it?" "Not well." "But the important thing is that the Burpos faced a significant challenge and they came through it." "Amen." "Amen." "That's the thing, though." "Thank you for that, Jay, but I don't know that I did come through." "Colton's experience makes me wonder." "About what, exactly, Todd?" "He's just been telling us about his experiences, talking about them." "When he was in, uh, the operation, Colton visited heaven." "But you said he didn't die." "He didn't, but he saw heaven." "He saw Jesus and angels and..." "But how?" "I don't know." "Reverend Burpo." "Todd." "Todd." "Some of the hospital staff have said, off the record, that your son was not expected to survive and used the word "miracle."" "How would you explain that?" "I haven't even tried to, uh, do that." "Can you try?" "If he didn't die, uh, how could he see heaven?" "I don't know, but he did." "Do you believe he was in heaven?" "Uh..." "I know he saw something." "It sure sounded like heaven." "Good Lord, what's happened to our preacher?" "Well, I thought that went well, huh?" "Nice view." "Mmm." "I love being up so high." "Mmm." "Colton!" "Hey!" "I thought I asked you to stop playing with that!" "I'm sorry, Dad!" "I told him not to, Dad!" "Half the church wants to stop feeling and start thinking." "And the other half, they want the exact opposite." "This is Todd." "Yeah." "Let me call you back." "That was the newspaper." "They want to do an article about heaven." "And?" "And they want to interview Colton." "And you think that's a good idea?" "So, Colton, a lot of people were praying for you." "I guess." "Well, that must feel good." "Come over here, buddy." "You're being interviewed." "Thank you." "You were very sick." "What did it feel like to die?" "I didn't die." "But you went to heaven?" "That's a little off-topic." "It's beautiful." "You saw heaven?" "Mmm-hmm." "What does it look like?" "Like here, but even more beautiful." "And you saw Jesus?" "Yeah." "He's very nice." "I sat on his lap." "He has markers." "Markers?" "Yeah." "Right here and right here and right here and right here." "Can I go swing on the swing some more?" "Yeah." "So, Jesus has a horse?" "There are lots of animals in heaven." "They don't believe me, do they?" "Some people might be afraid to believe." "What are they afraid of?" "I don't know." "Maybe they're afraid that there's no heaven." "Or maybe they're afraid that there is." "You believe me, Daddy, don't you?" "I believe God loves you." "And so do I." "Can I get your picture?" "What's that?" "Can I take your picture?" "Yeah." "And..." " Thank you." " Mmm." "Hello?" "Oh, hi, Jay." "Have you seen this?" "Yeah, I read it a couple of times." "It's quite an article." "I love Todd, but I love our church, too." "And I really can't stand to see it turn into some kind of circus." "Why don't we get together?" "Yeah, I think that's a good idea." "Okay, thank you." "Okay." "Bye-bye." "All right, bye-bye." "Oh, no, that's okay." "Actually, I'm going to get out of here." "No, no." "It's on me, buddy." "What do you mean?" "It's on me." "No." "No." "No." "No." "I got this." "No." "It's on me." "Sonja gives Rosa clothes for Miguelito whenever Colton outgrows anything." "And she gave Lucia a baby dress that an angel would wear." "A pink dress?" "Yeah, beautiful." "So, please, give me the gift of giving back." "Okay." "Thanks a lot." "All right." "Bye." "Bye, sweetie." "Say bye. bye." "Hey." "Hey, Burpo." "Hey, next time there's a fire, maybe you should tell Jesus that instead of walking on the water, he could just dump it all on your fire." "Right?" "Oh, come on." "You gotta see the humor in it." "Taylor, pass it to me." "Come on." "Yeah." "Ooh!" "Hey, Cassie, did your brother really sit on Jesus' lap?" "Did he ask for a new bicycle or a magic PONY?" "Hello." "This is Todd." "Uh-huh." "Yeah." "Well, I'm surprised to hear that." "Can you hold on?" "Honey, did you punch a kid in the nose today?" "Uh-huh." "With your fist?" "In the nose?" "Yep." "But not one kid." "Two." "What was the reason, honey?" "She hits good when she wants to." "I'm sorry." "Can I call you fightback?" "No, honey." "I think we should talk about this right now." "If you punched somebody, there must have been a good reason for it." "They were making fun of Colton." "They made fun about him sitting on Jesus' lap." "Honey, you know you should have turned the other cheek, though, right?" "I did turn his other cheek." "When I hit him." "Is Cassie going to get a spanking?" "Heck, no." "I'm just going to teach her to hit without hurting her knuckles." "Hey." "Are you having trouble sleeping?" "No." "Are you?" "Yeah." "It's pretty cool what Cassie did today, huh?" "Yeah." "It's pretty cool." "Do you want to talk?" "Sure." "Great." "I like our talks." "Can we talk about heaven?" "What would you like to know?" "What did Jesus look like?" "He's kind of hard to describe." "I'll bet." "Did he look maybe like a picture you've seen?" "How about..." "Did he look like that?" "The clothes." "Not the face." "This one?" "This?" "No." "Jesus has light eyes." "What color?" "Bluish or green." "Bluish-greenish." "Uh-huh." "Here." "Hey." "Did you get enough sleep?" "Not much." "So, he says that Jesus has light eyes." "Greenish blue." "Yours are green, mine are blue." "He's seeing us." "It's quite a compliment, really." "In college, I read something about, um, our own personal concept of God comes from our feelings about our father." "I sure hope not." "Mine had issues." "If our kids, they grow up believing that they are loved the way you love them," "the luckiest kids alive." "We've got a fire." "We sure have." "I'm going to take care of that one, come home, and add to this, all right?" "I'll be here." "Get two hoses on that car!" "No, no, no." "They're in there!" "Who?" "My family, they're in there!" "You've got a search?" "Yeah, he's saying they're in there." "Todd, you're in." "Let's go, let's run another one." "Here, you'll need this." "Keep him back." "Let's go, let's go!" "That's hot!" "That's hot!" "You can't go in there!" "Hello?" "Is anyone here?" "Hello?" "It's clear!" "It's clear!" "Charge." "Clear." "Shock." "Charge." "Clear." "Shock." "Colton, this is just a visit, but before you go back, I want you to meet someone." "I heard you gave Michael and Rosa a baby present." "Yeah, I, uh, thought they could use it." "Let's go out." "What?" "Yeah." "Call Sheila." "She'll watch them." "Tonight?" "Yeah." "Honey, no, we can't afford it." "That charity auction last year, dinner for two." "Maple Grove restaurant, your favorite place." "We used that already." "No, we did not." "We did." "What are you doing?" "No, we did not." "We did not." "The darker the night, the brighter they are." "Like you." "Yeah, you're good." "It's my best stuff." "It's getting darker, though." "We're out of money." "We're out of credit, too." "And the church board called me today." "They want to sit down with you and talk about where we're at as a church." "Why didn't they call me?" "I don't think they wanted you to think that they were putting you on the spot." "Because they are putting you on the spot." "Todd, we're prepared for you to have all kinds of struggles, and we're here to support you during those times." "We've extended a leave of absence." "Twice." "Twice, right." "So, I think you're aware the church is not doing very well without you and so we need to know what to plan for in the close future." "The question for me isn't whether you're preaching, it's what you're preaching." "Colton's trip to heaven disturbs a lot of people." "It disturbs me." "Do you take it as a literal event?" "Well, for him, it's not imaginary." "It's not a metaphor or a feeling." "It happened." "And I take that seriously." "I just don't know what to make of it." "You know?" "What about it bothers you so much?" "What is it?" "I mean, I want to talk about it." "I need to talk about it." "All right." "I don't like that it feels like, um, some fairy tale, just a simple, easy explanation of life." "I don't like that." "Okay." "So, because it appeals to simple people?" "No." "No." "Yeah." "Okay." "I don't like how it makes our church a magnet for everyone who wants to take the brain out of their head and beat it to death with the Bible and then seem to want to show off how much they believe." "Heaven and hell have always been concepts that have been used to control and frighten people." "That's one way to look at it, but all Colton's ever talked about is heaven and how it's a beautiful place." "Todd, what do you plan on preaching?" "All of us have times when we lose our way." "That's when we look to leaders." "If you're going to lead this church, you've got to make a decision." "All right." "I say that we give Todd a little bit more time." "One more week." "But in the meantime, we need to start planning for the future of our church and looking for someone else." "Here you go." "B-U-R-P-O." "Yeah, we've got everything ready to settle your account today." "I can't do that today." "I had an unforeseen situation." " You're not going to settle today?" " Uh, not today." "Well, you are aware that we have extended your accounts twice already." "I think it's been one extension." "No, it's been twice." "And they are going to collections as we speak." "Okay, but the collections is not something that, uh..." "Hey, Colton." "Hospital policy demands that I tell you your account is going to collections." "Colton." "Colton!" "Hey, come here." "Colton!" "I need to tell them." "Please." "Come here." "Yes, sweetie." "They don't look like that." "It's all right." "No one will ever hurt you." "Come on, guys, hurry up." "Mom's got a music conference today." "Hurry, hurry." "Hey, you didn't tell me how the, uh, church board meeting went." "They've started looking for somebody else." "Guys, let's go, come on." "Go brush your teeth." "Well, we'll figure it out." "You didn't come to bed until it was almost dawn." "I was researching near-death experiences." "Are you all right?" "It's fine!" "It's fine." "I mean, don't you think that..." "Hey!" "What?" "We need to be talking about this life?" "Not the next one." "I'm right here." "What do you want to talk about?" "We need to make sure our children are safe and they are happy." "And that they are normal!" "Happy." "Yes!" "And normal!" "I agree!" "I have to go out to that service for that loner who died after the fire in his motor home." "He didn't have any friends or next of kin." "You've got Colton today." "I'm going to take him with me." "Great." "He's never been freaked out in those situations." "He's a lot of comfort." "Oh, for the dead man or for you?" "Touché." "Touché.Touché." "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name." "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." "Give us this day, our daily bread." "Aim." "Begin." "You had a grandpa named "Pop," right?" "That's right." "Was he your daddy's daddy or your mommy's daddy?" "He was my mom's dad." "He died when I was about your age." "He's very nice." "You saw Pop?" "You saw my grandfather?" "You saw him?" "Where did you see him?" "In heaven." "I loved my grandfather very much." "He was there with me when my father couldn't be." "He taught me to weld." "He gave me that slingshot." "I know." "We play with it." "That's right." "And he was a good man." "He was a really good man, but I don't know what he believed in." "None of us did." "I think he's one of the reasons your dad became a minister." "I was hoping he would get a break getting into heaven then." "You don't have to worry, Dad." "He's there." "He came up to me and told me he was your grandfather and you called him "Pop."" "And he held me in his lap just like Jesus did." "And he told me everything was all right." "Okay, look at this." "Is this him?" "Is this the man you saw?" "No." "That's not who I saw." "Okay, but just look." "Are you sure?" "Colton?" "Nobody wears glasses in heaven." "Can I go play?" "Because when Mom gets home..." "Are you sure that's not him?" "It's not him." "Okay." "Okay." "Okay." "Okay." "When Mom gets home..." "Mom will be home in a second." "Just wait one second." "Wait." "Colton?" "That's him." "That's Pop." "In heaven, everybody's young." "Are you okay, Dad?" "An awful lot happened to you in heaven." "Yeah, it was amazing." "Todd, dinner is going to be ready in five..." "Are you okay?" "Colton saw Pop." "In heaven." "My grandfather." "I don't know what to make of this." "Well, I don't have the luxury of not knowing, Sonja." "I don't." "Everything he tells me, it hits me, you know?" "And I want to believe him." "Okay, I want to believe him." "He's four." "He's four." "He's so innocent, he can't be making this up, but everything he talks about is impossible." "It is a massive adventure that he's created." "He's talking about Jesus, seeing Jesus' horse." "He talks about choirs of angels and my grandfather." "It would take weeks or days, but, "For God a day is a thousand years."" ""And a thousand years but a day."" "I'm just saying that's scripture." "It's scripture." "There's no clock." "There's no clock." "Einstein talks about the same thing." ""Some reality is beyond time."" "Why can't it just be a mystery?" "Because I think God might be trying to reach out to us through Colton." "That's what I think." "What Colton is telling us, Todd, is an echo of every story, every song, every image he's seen since he was a child." "Why does this have to be a myth?" "Why?" "I don't know." "I don't know how to move on with my life." "Tell me what to do." "I don't know." "All I care about is if my husband and my family know that I love them." "I'm sorry I can't help you with any of this." "Well, I'm here." "Where are you?" "Please accept this flag as a symbol of our appreciation for your loved one's honorable and faithful service." "Your son was a hero." "He died a brave marine." "You." "I always figured it was Jay leaving flags and flowers here on my son's grave." "I failed you, Nancy." "The worst moment of your life, loss beyond comprehension, and I had..." "I had nothing for you." "No comfort." "No hope." "No peace." "I should have maybe..." "No, you didn't let me down." "You couldn't take my pain away and I didn't want it gone." "For a while, pain was all I had of him." "You don't have to save the world, Todd." "I believe that's already been done." "Since that meeting at the church where I was the bitter woman I swore I'd never be," "I've been thinking." "It's not the people of the church I'm mad at." "And it's not you." "Not your son." "It's God." "Why God would give you your son back and take mine away." "When Colton was in that hospital," "I saw he was dying and some part of me broke." "Some part that still hasn't mended." "Nancy, you don't ever have to apologize to me for any broken part you carry." "Do you think..." "I have to ask." "Do you think my son went to heaven?" "Do you love your son still?" "Of course." "Do you think I love mine?" "I know you do." "Do you think I love my son more than you love yours?" "No." "Do you think God loves my son more than he loves yours?" "Mommy?" "Yes, Colton." "Did you know I have a sister?" "Yes, Colton, of course, I know you have a sister." "I didn't know." "You didn't know that Cassie is your sister?" "No, I have two sisters." "You had a baby die in your tummy, didn't you?" "Honey, who told you I had a baby die in my tummy?" "She told me she died in your tummy." "What does she look like?" "Like Cassie, but a little smaller." "And hair like yours." "In heaven, this little girl came up to me and she wouldn't stop hugging me." "Honey, what did..." "What was her name?" "She didn't have a name." "You guys didn't name her." "You're right." "We didn't." "We, uh..." "We didn't know that she was a "she."" "Are you okay, Mommy?" "Yeah." "We lost a baby, sweetheart, just a few months before she was..." "Todd." "That's our baby." "That's our little girl." "She's okay." "I don't want to be late for school today and the phone's ringing!" "I'll get it." "Hi." "Pastor Todd Burpo?" "This is Todd." "Great." "We're live on the air with Todd Burpo." "Can you tell us about your son's adventure in heaven?" "On the air?" "Dad!" "Everybody here in Imperial followed the story of your son's sickness and people all over town were praying for his recovery." "Now we're starting to hear of an amazing trip he took to heaven." "Can you tell us about that?" "Come by Crossroads Wesleyan Church on Sunday." "I'll tell you all about it." "♪ Here's my heart now" "♪ Take and seal it" "♪ Seal it for Thy courts above" "♪ Here's my heart now" "♪ Take and seal it" "♪ Seal it for Thy courts" "♪ Above ♪" "I love you." "I'm standing here today with wounds that are still healing, fears that are still echoing and in that way, maybe some of you are sitting here this morning exactly like me." "I can say truthfully that the pain that I suffered, it was nothing compared to watching my son that close to death." "So, now we've got a question." "Was Colton in heaven?" "Yes." "He was in the heaven that God showed him." "Is heaven real?" "'Cause, if heaven is for real, we'd all lead different lives, wouldn't we?" "Would we?" "Really?" "Haven't we already seen heaven?" "In the first cry of a baby, the courage of a friend, the hands of a nurse or a doctor, the love of a mother or father." "Haven't we already had a glimpse of heaven and so often chosen the hell" "of hate and fear?" "Is heaven for real?" "Every single one of you has asked that question." "All of us have." "And for me, the answer..." "It's "yes."" "I see it, so I believe it." "And what we believe changes what we perceive." "And I believe that God, he's love." "Ten thousand times I've been here and I've talked about" ""On earth as it is in heaven."" "And I don't know that I ever listened to that." "And my son, he saw something." "He saw heaven." "He'll tell you all about Jesus." "How about that name? "Jesus."" "Ooh." ""Jesus"." "It creates so much hope in so many of you, so much distrust in so many others." "That's okay." "I believe God asked me to be a pastor." "Did he insist on my vision being the same as yours?" "Or yours?" "Of course not." "Did he make me one of those heroes like that lion and the bear and unicorn I preached about?" "No." "That's what I wanted." "God had a different plan." "God crushed my pride." "He opened my heart" "to love." "And all I have to do, the one thing this love requires" "is that I let others know they're not alone." "So amazing." "Welcome back." "Good work, buddy." "It's good to see you." "Hey, Randy." "Are things okay over there?" "What?" "What?" "What was that?" "Hey, thanks very much, John." "You're welcome." "Thanks." "You, too." "I am." "Hey, Ray." "She picked up the brush when she was just six years old." "But the visions..." "Mom, can I have some lemonade, please?" "Of course." "Started when she was just four." "Uh-huh." "Look at this on CNN." "She's a self-taught painter." "It's about a girl on the other side of the world who had an experience a lot like Colton's." "She saw visions of heaven." "Look at this." "Angels." "She began to describe to her mother in great detail..." "Look at this, honey." "This is incredible." "Her visits to heaven." "It's nice, honey, but I have got to talk to you." "Okay." "Okay, but she's..." "At the age of four, she began to describe her visits to heaven." "See?" "Colton?" "Are you okay?" "That's him." "That's..." "Huh?" "But..." "Colton." "That's him?" "That's who you saw?" "Colton, come here." "I've got to talk to you." "Come on." "This is..." "Hey, I want to talk to you." "He told me that painting back there that girl saw is what Colton saw." "Todd, you know that little baby-blue outfit we keep in the drawer?" "Todd, we're going to need this." "Really?" "Really?" "Yeah." "Wow." "I know." "Wow, when did you find out?" "Yesterday."