"You got into a conversation with someone" " when you offered someone some money." " Oh, my God." " Oh." "Obviously, you know what I'm talking about." " Yeah, I've heard this rumour." " It's a rumour?" " Yeah." "How does more than one person know about it?" " Because where we live, if you know..." " Tell me about it." " Let me guess, Jason Lotshaw." " Tell me about it." "Why..." "Why is it..." "Why...?" "Why is it that I have to open something up for you to say, "Oh"?" "And I'm going to sit up here and I'm asking you..." "I'm asking you a question." "Very specific questions that I'm asking you." "OK?" "If there's anything else that I need to know, you need to tell me." "I think that would be one that would come up." ""Hey, somebody just said a rumour" or "this bullshit rumour's going on"" "or "this is going on" or "that's happening."" "You're going to walk yourself into some shit that you can't get out of." "I'm telling you right now." "This is your opportunity and I only knock once." "OK, well, what I'm telling you is, me and her got into it and I asked to leave." "Well, after that, there were rumours from Jamie, Jason, that I was, supposedly, trying to pay someone to get rid of her, this and that." "I'm not going to stoop to that kind of a level over a man." "I'm sorry, it's not worth it." "I have three kids I've raised by myself." "This is another one I can raise by myself." "I wouldn't do that." "Yes, they did." "They took a lot of it seriously even though everything was hearsay." "There was no physical anything to back up anything anybody was saying." "There was no evidence to back up anything." "It was all hearsay and it was held against me." "I'm going to tell you the truth." "I've had a feeling the whole time, since that girl came up missing, that I had a feeling that Emilia had something to do with it." "The picture we're getting of Emilia at this point is that she does not want Heather around." "She wants to eliminate Heather from this triangular relationship." "When Josh is in jail for pointing the shotgun at Heather in the early part of 2009, during that time while he was in jail, she started living with Jamie Acome." "Well, I mean, I've known Jamie since I was 15." "We have a child together and I actually met Heather and Josh through him." "We had learned about this crazy relationship between all four of them." "They were in relationships together in kind of swap relationships and ended up with each other's partner." "I am more than glad to give you everything I know." "This is what we're here to go back over." "That's all I can..." "That's all I can do." " You can do that, right?" " Yes, sir, I have no problem with that." "When we interviewed Jamie, at one point, he had told us there was an incident that occurred between Heather and Emilia." "Emilia had Heather's hair wrapped around her hand, and like this, and held a knife to her throat while I had told her," ""Don't do that or whatever you're doing." "You're tripping out." ""You're overreacting."" "So they both calmed down." "She told me to get Emilia and get her the hell out of her house." "Jamie Acome's description of Emilia grabbing Heather's hair and wrapping her hair in her hand and pulling her head back and putting a knife to her throat and threatening to cut her throat, that was really important evidence because she was pregnant," "you know, seven months pregnant at the time, so it let the jury see that, even though Emilia Carr was a pregnant female, that she still had the personality and the inclination to be violent with Heather." "There was a lie that was told by Jamie regarding a supposed incident between me and Heather and... that is what made them..." "That is what really gave them motive." "He tried to say that I held a knife to her neck which, if that were true in any form, Heather would have called the cops because she does not..." "Ah-ah." "No." "She wouldn't have tolerated that and especially with her children there." "Heather was frightened of her because, you know," "Emilia seems like a likeable person but when...when it... when she snaps, she'll do things like pull a knife on you and that's when we really started seeing the other side of Emilia." "Jason Lotshaw, I didn't feel was very credible." "Um, and partially because of the fact that he was facing charges, he had his own motivation for fabrication, for exaggeration, um, for isolating Emilia from any other conversation that went on." "I believe Emilia is the one that orchestrated the whole thing." "She...she's very smart." "And like I said, very vindictive." "I feel like she's the one that made everything happen." "Cos Josh still loved..." "He still loved Heather, you know, he..." "That's his baby's mother." "He's got two children by her, you know." "I feel like Emilia planted that seed and let it grow a while back in Josh's head." "I'm..." "I'm telling you right now," " Emilia's trying to make herself out to be an angel." " Yeah." "Emilia's trying to make herself out to be scared of Josh, scared of what he might do to her after what he did to Heather." ""I don't know what he could have done to me." ""I saw what he did to Heather." "I was so scared." ""That's why I didn't call." "That's why I didn't say anything." ""I saw what he was capable of." "You have to understand," ""I have three little children and another one on the way." ""I was so scared."" " But she's already full of shit too." " But guess what?" "A lot of what she's telling us is the truth." "Do I think she's telling it all?" "No." "I don't think she's telling it all." "Do I think that she is probably evil?" "Probably." "Do I think that she probably is involved a lot more than she says she is?" "Yeah." "But she's making herself out to be the angel." " Oh, yeah." " OK?" " She's pinning it all on you." " Don't let that happen." " Guess where you spent the night last night?" " In jail." " OK." "Guess where she spent the night last night?" " I know." "I talked to her." "At home." "All right." "Now, figure that out." " And that's what I told her." " She's telling us part of the truth." "You've got the other part that you're trying to just hide because you know you're involved." "The investigators came, the Department of Children and Families came and they took her children and that crushed Emilia." "She had to do whatever she needed to, at that point, to get her children back." "I received a call at my office from her and she was upset and she was frantic and she was, basically, wanting me to help her in keeping her kids." "I was..." "I was mad." "And I was hurt at the fact that my kids were suffering because of all this mess because my kids were taken into foster care that very next day, the second day of interrogations." "Emilia started crying but she didn't want the kids to...to see her so she tried to be strong so the kids didn't think that anything was wrong." "Not really." "I've never seen Emilia cry." "She barely cries." "You know, your maternal instincts kick in and, you know, take over." "You don't think with a logical mind." "You think, "How do I get my babies home?" ""How do I get them away from strangers." ""They're separated, they're going through it."" "That was my priority." "The very next day, she called again and this time, I had the opportunity to record the phone call." "'What I'm telling you is I know things 'that only the coroner or whoever does the autopsy..." "'I know things, Detective Stivey, 'that happened 'but I'm just saying, I can't..." "'I'm not going to say anything without immunity." "'Because I'm telling you, with what I know, I'll go down with him, 'not for murder because I didn't kill the girl.'" "'What can you..." "What more can you offer that's going to 'definitely send him away to prison?" "'" " 'Nothing I can give you without immunity.' - 'All right." "'Are you willing to talk to me back in the hypothetical terms again?" "'I mean, because that's what I'm going to need." "I'm...'" " 'Are we off the record?" "' - 'We're off the record.' - 'OK." "Hypothetically..." "'..maybe I know a little bit more 'about what happened while he was back there." "'But hypothetically, I'm not going to say anything without immunity." "'I'm just scared to take that step without that little piece of paper 'so I know I'm not going to fall on my face 'and lose my kids for the rest of my life." "'Maybe what could, hypothetically, be said was maybe" "'I could be the state attorney's best eyewitness.'" "'To?" "'" " 'To what happened." "Hypothetically.' - 'OK." "'So... 'if possibly..." "If immunity was given, 'there's possibly a witness out 'there who actually watched her die.'" "'Possibly.'" "I had suspicions all along that she might know more or was involved more than she was saying and this sort of confirmed those suspicions." "This case was too fresh and it was still too new to even consider giving someone immunity when they might be the killer." "And while Emilia is making these calls back and forth," "Josh is making a request to speak to Detective Buie." "Me and Josh had a connection." "Me and Josh spoke for several hours." "Couple of days, we continued to speak." "I remember Josh telling me at one point that he couldn't rest because he kept seeing Heather's face and he needed to get this off of his chest." "I wanted to know what happened and I think Josh wanted to tell me what happened."