"Wealthy..." "..astute... innovative..." "..fearless... ..and shrewd." "These are the Dragons." "ROARING" "The heat is on in the Den." "Together with formidable business giants" "Peter Jones and Deborah Meaden, are..." "Global fashion tycoon with over 40 years' retail experience " "Touker Suleyman." "The woman who turned her passion for food and drink into a multi-million pound business empire" " Sarah Willingham." "And the man who sold his online greetings card business for £120 million " "Nick Jenkins." "For entrepreneurs, it's the toughest business pitch of their lives." "Do they have what it takes to face the Dragons?" "Welcome to Dragons' Den." "A fresh batch of nervous entrepreneurs are putting the finishing touches to what they hope will be the elevator pitch of a lifetime." "The Dragons sit and wait, but it's their own cash at stake, so they'll only pounce when the deal is right." "Coming up on tonight's show..." "Now, just let it settle." "It will settle into a perfect pint." "You're about to torpedo what is a lovely business." "I really like it and I can completely see who your market is." "It's a bit like you're the honey pot." "I just don't want to be the one that's stung." "I think you're going to make a go of this." "You will not make any money." "It's impossible." "We have uncovered some incredible opportunities." "What, have you found gold?" "The first entrepreneur into the Den is David Kendall, from Birmingham." "He's juggling running a business with becoming a parent for the first time, just a few weeks ago." "So, handling the Dragons should be easy in comparison, shouldn't it?" "About three weeks ago, my wife and I had a little baby boy." "I've had absolutely no sleep ever since." "I think my objectives and focuses for life have change somewhat." "I think business and, you know, making profit are certainly more important now." "If I get an investment, it'll mean everything to me." "All I've got to do at this stage is stay awake, I suppose." "Hello, Dragons." "My name's David Kendall and I'm here today to ask you for a £50,000 investment in exchange for a 25% share in my company, Slappie Limited." "Slappie was launched in 2012, and today is traded, purely on the website, in the slap watch product, and each complete unit consists of the following - a slap bracelet, a little bit like so." "We have an interchangeable watch face, like so, and we have a Slappie sphere packaging ball." "Slappie's sold some £105,000 worth of slap watches in the past two years, yielding a very healthy 65% margin." "I took over Slappie the back end of last year." "I love the vibrant, funky and quirky image of the product and the brand, and I felt that it had tremendous potential for the future." "I feel that Slappie has fantastic potential in terms of retail and I think that together with the support of a Dragon, we can make this brand a global success." "A pitch and a product with mainstream appeal, from David Kendall." "These have been aptly named on our social media sites by some of our customers, that one is a Pink Animal for you..." "He's looking for a £50,000 investment to help promote his unusual range of wrap-around watches." "For you, Deborah, we have The Love Bug, as my wife calls it." "Thank you very much, that's an interesting choice." "In return, he's offering the Dragons 25% of his company." "Peter Jones wants to find out exactly what's on the table." " Dave, erm, you mentioned that you acquired this company." " Yes." "What did you pay for it?" "£75,000 and I've put additional stock in place, additional costs developing the website." "It probably owes me in the region of £107,000 and about three months of my life so far." "And what did it turn over in its last financial year?" "It turned over £45,000 in 2014 and it turned over £63,000 in 2013." "I envisage the company turning over circa £500,000 in 2016, circa £2 million in 2017, and circa £3.8 million pounds in 2018." "Optimistic financial projections, confidently delivered." "But Nick Jenkins is wondering whether David's watches have already had their moment." "David, one of my concerns about this is that every once in a while something comes a long that has a wave." "I'm just a bit concerned that the first wave has passed." "Yeah, I know, I appreciate your points, Nick, and it's something that I've thought of myself when I took over it." "I haven't marketed this as of yet in its retail myself, but I have had some organic contact from some pretty big retailers." "So there does seem to be some interest around it." "Can I ask you which ones and what's that interest?" " We've been contacted back in January by Claire's Accessories." " Right." "We're in discussions with Not In The High Street and we're in discussions with Wicked Uncle." "Great, and what does "in discussions" mean." " I mean, how far down the track?" " Very, very early stages." "With a magic wand, though, where would you be?" "With a magic wand, I'd be in Selfridges." "I'd have licensing deals with a number of major football clubs or big brands, be in Urban Outfitters, and I'd be in other funky alternative shops, et cetera, et cetera." "That's where I would want the product to be in an ideal world." "See, what scares me a little bit, listening to you, to be totally honest, erm... is I think, I'm not sure you really know where you want to be." "I think you're a bit, like, anywhere where this might sell." "David's scatter-gun approach to where to sell his product has sent alarm bells ringing for Sarah Willingham and it's left Peter Jones concerned that he is an entrepreneur who likes to spread himself thinly." "Dave, what else do you do apart from a Slappie watch?" "I own a management consultancy." "I've got some staff, and I've structured that in a way that allows me to now focus on this." "And what's going to happen if somebody invests?" "Erm, I haven't quite decided what I want to do yet." "All I do know is I'm ready for a new challenge," " hence I bought this, to be honest with you." " Yeah." "I've jumped into this with both feet." "Are you quite impulsive, David?" "Do you do some quite obscure things?" "No, I wouldn't go that far." "Erm, I, you know, I'm quite instinctive." "But I think you could be the issue to this business not progressing." "You've got a business, you've seen this is an opportunity." "I think you might have a pending conflict of interests there coming." "You could be diverted, and your attention diverted, and that's what really concerns me." "So, I'm going to pass on the investment," "I'm going to say I'm out." "Thank you, Peter." "David has lost his first Dragon, as concerns over his level of commitment to his new business cause Peter Jones to walk away." "Will Sarah Willingham set aside her earlier anxieties in order to make the entrepreneur an offer?" "My issue is, I think you'll struggle in big retail, I really do." "I don't think this is a product that you would go to large retailers and end up taking off the shelf." "I see it selling in independent gift shops, because that's where people go to browse, and those independent gift shops are very, very difficult" " because there's so many of them." " So many of them." "Yeah, quite right." "So, as an investment for me," "I'm really sorry, it's not one where I think I can make a really big difference to you so, for that reason, I am out." "Thank you for your comments, Sarah." "I appreciate them, thank you." "Dave, I'm going to tell you where I am." "You're going to feel very dissatisfied with what I'm about to say next, because it's not really going to offer you a lot." "I have to look at something and think," " "I, I..." You know?" " I appreciate that." " "Oh!" "oh!"" "Yeah, I know, I do appreciate that." ""I know!" "I know what we can do with that!"" " And it's just not getting me." " OK." "So, I'm really sorry, Dave." "I'm out." "With two more Dragons gone, David's prospects appear increasingly bleak." "In this particular instance, time is most definitely money." "And it's the watch company's balance sheet that is preoccupying" "Nick Jenkins." "David, you mentioned £107,000 worth of debt." "Is that actually in the company?" "Is that...?" "Yes, well, it's technically, I've paid it myself." "Right, right, no, no, but, in the sense," " does the company owe you £107,000?" " Technically, yes, it's a..." "No, I mean, technically, from an accounting point of view," " is that sitting in the accounts?" " Yeah." " Mmm." "OK." "Now, I mean, I think one thing you have done, is, you've been very sensible about what you've asked for, but what does that £50,000 do?" "I want to get the product trendy, OK?" "I want to get it on people's wrists." "I want to get it in playgrounds, OK?" "I want to increase the online sales and I want to get it into some retailers." "It's a long shot." "You've got a brand" " and you've got a supplier." " Mm-hm." " This mould, there's no patent." " There's no patent." "No patent, and the business is already in debt to you." "It's got to, it's got to take somebody who's got a gut feeling for it." " Do you owe your suppliers any money?" " No, not a penny." " So you don't owe anybody any money." " I don't owe anybody any..." " Apart from yourself." " Apart from me." "OK." "And if you had the money, how much time would you dedicate for this?" "I'm going to do what it takes to make this succeed." "I've never failed at anything in my life and I've got no intention of starting now, so..." " So, you've put everything in now to make this work?" " Yeah." " Good." "I'm going to make you an offer." "Lovely." "I can offer you support on the website." "I can offer you warehouse distributors... ..and give you all the support that will make this brand go to the next level." "But I want you to capitalise your 107,000, as capital... ..so the company doesn't owe you any money." "I'm going to give you 50,000, but I want 45%." "Interesting." "Thank you, Touker." "An offer from Touker Suleyman, but it comes at a price, nearly half of the equity, as well as an undertaking to write off the six-figure sum that David is currently owed by his own company." "With a proven track record in online brand building, Nick Jenkins could be David's perfect investor, but does he want to do a deal?" "David, it does concern me that you've had a successful business and you want to replace that with this." "So, what would you expect to draw from this?" "You know, I'll be honest with you." "I'm not in this for immediate gain." " My objective is increase in that worth of the business..." " Yeah." "..so that in five years' time make a decision as to what to do with it." " Sure." " It's not a short-term solution for me in that regard, so..." " OK." "Erm, I'm going to make you an offer as well." "I'm going to make you an offer of all of the money for 45%, but what I would put into that is add some time and some team to really help develop the brand and take what you've got there, and to grow it." "Thank you, Nick." "Yeah." "A further offer from Nick Jenkins, who, like Touker Suleyman, wants David to give up a chunky 45%." "Plenty to think about for the entrepreneur." "I'd love to work with all of you guys, truth be told." "Erm, you know, I'll get that point over straightaway." " You know..." " Shall I just repeat what I've just said?" "You'll give me 45%, for £50,000, you'll give me fulfilment support..." " Yes." " ..distribution support..." " Yes." " ..and get the products out there..." " And online." " ..and online." "And then we can talk about rebranding to enlarge the business." "David, on the debt side, what I would simply say is, that needs to be repaid out of one third of the profits, so you have to make £300,000 and then your money gets paid back." "Wow, OK." "Can I go and have a chat with the wall for two minutes?" " Is that all right?" " Please do." "Both Dragons are offering to help build the entrepreneur's brand." "But each has a very different view on how best to deal with the business' outstanding debts." "The time has come for David to make up his mind." "I've made a decision." "And my decision is probably based upon the set-up in terms of the £107,000, and for that reason I'm going to go with Nick." "But, Touker, I am most grateful for your offer, and for your time." " Congratulations." " Well done." " Thank you." "Thank you very much." "Cheers." "So, success for David, whose business now seems guaranteed to run like clockwork." "Well done." "Two Dragons were vying for the deal, but Nick Jenkins' last-minute offer of more favourable terms ultimately won the day." "Wow, what an experience." "Hmm." "It was extremely tight." "It was purely the debt was the reason I went for Nick." " Nick, Well done." " I didn't realise you were going to make an offer." "That's why you let, you let me do the offer first." "45% is a big percentage, but I'll take 55% of a business with Nick, rather than 100% of the business on my own." "It's worth it." "Next in the Den." "(The last drink.)" "Product designers and camping enthusiasts Jonathan Harrison and Jonathan Schofield." "I was a cub scout." "My dad was in the army, so I've had it throughout my upbringing, and to actually create a product from scratch in this marketplace is fantastic." "They certainly know which Dragon they want, and why they want her." "I think Deborah Meaden would be a really exciting Dragon to have on board for us." "Obviously with her knowledge of the camping and recreational vehicle market, we feel that it would be a brilliant opportunity, and probably could bring other angles to the project as well." "Hello, Dragons." "My name's Jonathan Harrison." "This is the OPUS Camper, the world's most exciting mobile glamping product." "We are looking for an £80,000 investment, for 5% in this start-up company." "My name's Jonathan Schofield, and I'd like to take you through the features and benefits of the OPUS Camper." "So the OPUS Camper is a fully-braked trailer." "It's designed to take boats, bikes, kayaks and even a motorbike." "And it's designed, when you actually get to your end destination, you can remove all your outdoor adventure toys, then the OPUS Trailer becomes the OPUS Camper." "Inside, you'll find it's got two king-sized beds at either end, it's got running water, it's got heating, it's got gas and electric cooking, it's got a refrigerator in there, as well, and even a toilet." "We would really like to have investment from a high-profile Dragon, raise the brand-awareness and really, hopefully, turn our dreams of selling 500 units a reality within the coming years." "And we'd really like to invite you, Dragons, to come up and have a look inside." "Part-caravan, part-trailer, and part-tent." "It's a wholly original offering from Jonathan Harrison and Jonathan Schofield." "Gosh." "It's actually amazing." "It's much bigger than I thought." "They're seeking £80,000 in return for a 5% stake in their new camper company." "It looks like this would take me a week to turn into a" " tent from the trailer." " I don't think, I think you'd have to assemble this." "But a quick look around the product, has left Sarah Willingham reaching for the instruction manual." "How long does that take to change that into that?" "And how many people does it take?" "It can be done by one person, cos the process is only opening both the panels like that, so it opens a bit like a Silver Cross pram, and then you wind the corner legs down at either side," "and the bed supports, and then you're inside." "So it takes about 20 minutes." "So, so a numpty like me" " could put that up in 20 minutes..." " Yeah." "..even the inside." "So, yeah, I mean, it's all very..." "I mean, it's very easy." "You're just lifting things into position, it's not, sort of, a jigsaw type of puzzle." "Wow, and all the top and everything." "Yeah, that's all fixed into position, yeah." "I don't think I've ever been into a tent or a caravan without hitting my head." "We did have you in mind with this." "No, it's the first time I've ever walked in and thought, "Wow." ""I don't have to duck."" "Big thing for me was the toilet inside, cos if you imagine at night and you want to go out for a number two, and you've got a full house, it's going to be quite embarrassing." "So how, how can you sort of deal with that?" "Cos that's the only thing that's kind of putting me off." "There's an awning, which is like an extra tent, which can go on the front, which kind of gives you like a lobby area, and to the side of that you can have the little pod, which is" "a closed-off area, and you can put the toilet there." "I can't believe you actually go to the toilet, Peter," " I had absolutely no idea." " Well, it doesn't smell, my poo." "THEY LAUGH" "Despite Peter Jones' attempts to pooh-pooh their product, the entrepreneurs are still smelling of roses." "But it is established leisure industry player Deborah Meaden who the pair are really looking to impress." "So, what's the closest equivalent that you have on this at the moment?" "Because I have seen some trailers with pop-up tops." "A lot of these things are things from the '70s and '80s." "And some of the ones you probably see out there now are probably ones which are still being used." "We wanted to give it a really modern feel." "And think, "What can we change about it?"" "And what we've done which is different is we've kind of put the curves in it and raised the ceiling, you know, to give you the advantage of being canvas." "And what's the market doing?" "I mean, where have you shown?" "You must've been to the caravan show, what happened?" "We kind of find that if someone expects a caravan, they probably are not going to have this product." "So it kind of tends to be people who go," ""Actually, I would never be in the market for a caravan."" ""Yeah, I'd have a VW camper, that's kind of cool."" "But a VW camper which is going to cost £40,000 to £50,000 and this being kind of the...the £12,000 mark, it's much more affordable." "The camping and caravanning entrepreneurs and their Dragon of choice appear to be speaking the same language." "And Sarah Willingham is curious about the individuals behind the innovation." "What made you do this?" "Are you just good campers or have you been in the industry?" "We've been in the industry making accessories for the caravan market since about 2002." "Purple Line is the foundation company." " Jonathan's got that business." " Tell us about the existing business." "What does that turnover?" "What does it...?" "How is it going?" "The latest accounts, we did..." "I think it was 3.4 million turnover, made a profit of just shy of 500,000." "And it's a wholesale business." "So we are looking to hive off this retail business with the OPUS Camper." "Why don't you just keep it in the existing business?" "80 grand for 5% all in?" " LAUGHING:" " You might have five very interested Dragons on that basis!" "For the OPUS Camper, that's what we are presenting to you today." "I'm not looking for investment into the Purple Line business." "It's bad news for the deal-hungry Dragons as Jonathan places his existing business out of bounds." "And the relationship between the old and new parts of his empire is puzzling Touker Suleyman." "I have a bit of manufacturing background." "Are we saying that Purple Line going forward would manufacture them and OPUS would buy from Purple Line?" "Or will OPUS be a manufacturer?" "I don't quite get it." "No, I think OPUS will be the manufacturer." "This is the business model we are doing with Australia and America as well." "I've got a sister company, one in Australia and one in California." "They tap into our CAD engineering expertise, our marketing, graphic design." "They are smaller operations." "And that's working well." "Can I just clarify?" "You've got a business doing this in Australia and America, so we can only really be in the UK?" " Yes." " So this is, effectively, sort of a UK distributorship of an idea." "Without any..." "That's it, isn't it?" " UK distributor..." " That's effectively what it is." "If we're not allowed to sell these things in Australia and America, where there is a big market, cos you're already doing that, you're giving us a chance - thank you very much - to be a salesman in your distributorship in the UK." "Well, look, one of the reasons I came onto this show," "I quite enjoy working with people who have had an idea and they want to make it come to reality and they need a bit of help to come along with it." "You can see their dreams come true." "But I didn't come on the show to become a salesman for someone's minor subsidiary." "I'm out." "With only a slice of the domestic camper market up for grabs, a disgruntled Nick Jenkins has turned down the deal." "Will Sarah Willingham prove any more open to investing on those terms?" "I personally find it very difficult to get very excited and work very hard on the UK market knowing you are opening up lots of other doors of which I would never be part of." "But..." "I really like it." "And I can completely see who your market is." "I'd like to make you an offer." "I'd like to offer you all of the money for 10% of your existing business, but as soon as we hit 200 units, you can buy back half of my shareholding, taking me down to 5%..." "..at the same price as I invest in today." "Sarah Willingham is first to test the water." "She has offered the full £80,000." "But in return, she wants a slice of Jonathan's lucrative camping accessory company." "With the poker-faced entrepreneur giving nothing away, it's time for Peter Jones to chance his hand." "I was sitting here really excited about the opportunity." "And it's kind of..." "It's falling apart, really." "Because, whilst the product is amazing, everything filters back to Purple Line." "It is a bit like you're the honey pot." "I just don't want to be the one that's stung." "So, Jonathan, I am going to give you an issue to think about." "I'm going to make you an offer." "I'm going to offer you all of the money... but I want 10% of Purple Line." "Two Dragons are now in but only on condition that Jonathan folds his existing business into the deal." "Will clothing magnate Touker Suleyman follow suit?" "OK, so..." "Guys, I'm going to make you an offer." "I will give you all of the money for 10% of Purple Line or all of the money for 25% of OPUS." "A dual offer for the pair to consider." "Touker Suleyman's willingness to invest in just the camper business, putting him in pole position to snap up the deal." "But one Dragon is still to play." "And with her background in the camping and caravanning industry, she could hold all the cards." "You have made it very difficult because, actually, when you talked about the global reach, that was the bit that started getting quite exciting, and then I thought, "Actually, it's the UK and Europe," and that's..." "..quite different." "But I do like it." "So I'm going to make you an offer for all of the money, but I want 25% of the business." "And I am being clear, it is about the OPUS business." "Um..." "Can we have a chat?" "So for the two entrepreneurs, a difficult decision." " WHISPERS:" " I like Sarah's offer." "Do you?" "I like Deborah's offer." "Deborah is going to bring the most in the party." "Or with their preferred Dragon confining her offer to their new business, perhaps, for once, it is a straightforward one." " That was a bit too quick." " Was it?" " Yeah." " Sorry." "No disrespect to any of you guys, but there was obviously one" "Dragon we kind of felt would be really good for the business." " Well, just before you say that, can I make you another offer then?" " Yeah." "Cos you're clearly going for Deborah." "Which really, really hacks me off." "And it's not right." "What do you mean it's not right?" "!" "SHE LAUGHS" "It's spot-on." "I would be willing to halve my Purple Line 10% with Deborah..." "..so that I would own 5%." " Thank you, Peter." " Thank you, Peter." " Thank you." "Um, yeah, thank you all, Dragons." "You know, prior to coming in, we were definitely hoping to call one particular Dragon." "We would love to go ahead and work alongside you, Deborah." " Great start!" " That's a great show of luck." " Excellent!" "How much fun, eh?" "It's going to be a festival." "I have to spend my summer doing festivals." "Marvellous." "Brilliant." " Thank you." " Thank you very much." "So two very happy campers leave the Den..." "Mind the trap door." "..having succeeded in securing the Dragon investor of their choice..." "High-five." "..not to mention a substantial £80,000 cash injection." "It is the turbo charge that we really wanted for the business, to really take us to the next level." "Well, the way I look at it, I didn't lose." "I didn't want that deal anyway(!" ")" " I did." " SHE LAUGHS" " Not smart enough, Peter?" " TOUKER:" " Well done, Deborah." "To team up with Deborah is fantastic news for us and will really give all the team great encouragement moving forward." "With huge cash investments to play for, the Den is no place for the indecisive." "Scottish entrepreneur Calum Leslie came to the Dragons looking for £75,000 in return for a 10% stake in his smartphone app which lets the selfie generation make all those tough decisions for you." "One evening, I was at a party chatting to a girl and I thought things were going pretty well until she literally stopped me - mid-sentence - reached down, pulled out her phone and took a picture of me." "I was like, "Why are you taking a picture of me?"" "And she said, "I am taking a picture of you to find out" ""whether or not my friends think you're hot."" "That led me to think about all the different types of questions that people like to ask." "This is where our app Wooju comes in." "So you open up the app..." "Time to put the app to the test with a pic to rival that famous Oscar selfie." "You then take a picture." "Oh, smile." "And then the next thing you do is, up at the top, you can pop in your questions." "So the question we'll ask is, "Would you invest?"" "Ah, OK, now that's a good question!" "But the real value of any app is how many users it can boast." "We've got 21,000 users so far." "Are you pleased with your 21,000 in 12 months?" "As long as we're hitting the tens of thousands of users within year one, then we're pretty pleased with that." "Calum was confident that his smartphone app was on course for critical mass." "But Sarah Willingham was worried it was a very crowded market." "The thing that scares me to death is just how much money it takes unless you just hit that wave so perfectly that you surf in and suddenly you've got your million users." "So, monthly active users - about 1,500 monthly actives." "21,000 people have signed up." "Most of the people... are not using it." "But for Nick Jenkins, that was only the start of the interrogation." "So, what I want to understand is are these guys going wild for it?" "So where do you reckon those 21,000 came from?" "Right, say that again." "SPEECH FADES OUT SHE SIGHS" "Until Peter Jones just couldn't take any more." " Say that again." " PETER SNORES" "Thank you, Peter." "So, in short..." " In short?" "!" " Would you hurry up?" "!" " It's too late to say in short!" "For God's sake, he summarises that to say, "In short..."" " LAUGHTER" " Right..." "But back to business." "Was Calum a hot enough investment opportunity?" "Time to get the views of his 1,500 monthly users." "Can I just ask what's happened to the picture you've posted of us?" "So far, four people have voted yes." "So I guess it's a yes." " They are on your team, though, so it doesn't count, does it?" " Absolutely." "Four of Calum's colleagues may agree that investment makes sense, but in the Den, it is the decisions of five multimillionaire Dragons that really count." "There are gazillions of people out there doing exactly the same thing, thinking of an app and trying to make it go viral." "And there's only room at the top for a very, very small number." "Unfortunately, I think it is too big a risk." "I can't invest, I'm out." " Good luck, but I'm out." " I'm out." "I'm out." "I'm not that big a gambler and there is not enough evidence right now that this is going to be the one." " I'm afraid I won't be investing, so I'm out." " Thank you very much." "Still to come on tonight's show..." "..a sugar rush for Sarah Willingham..." "Mm!" "Really good brownies." "..and an entrepreneur lost for words." "What's worth 2 million today?" "The..." "Um..." "Look, you know, the..." "I think...that..." "Next into the Den is Dubliner Robbie Ward." "I have literally travelled the world with this business." "I've been in five continents." "I've put some serious air miles in." "I've had sleepless nights." "I'm ready now to scale this up to international proportions." "But can he make it yet another investment by pulling in a deal with the Dragons?" "Hello." "My name is Robbie Ward, founder and CEO of Drink Command Limited." "We are seeking an investment of £200,000 for 10% equity." "Drink Command have created a self-serve draft beer system that we sell to bars, stadiums, festivals and drink companies." "We've all been at an event where we've had to queue for a long time to buy a drink." "But with our system, customers experience pulling their own pints, avoiding the queues and enjoying fresh, cold drinks at their own pace." "Here's how it works." "A customer will purchase credit at the venue onto a key fob or a festival wristband or a stadium season-ticket card or a mobile app." "They will then use any of the venue's self-pour taps to choose a beer..." "..while our system keeps track of exactly how much has been poured and how much customer credit is remaining." "Outlets with Drink Command systems installed typically see a quick return on investment while creating something unique in the venue that drives repeat business." "We have sales so far of 370,000 into five contents." "And we have a strong sales pipeline here in the UK with purchase intent from well-known brands including Yo!" "Sushi," "Glastonbury and some top tier football and rugby stadiums." "Dragons, thank you so much for listening." "I look forward to your questions." "But first, I have some key fobs and would like to ask you to try pouring your own beers." "I'm up." "I've pulled a few pints in my life." " ROBBIE LAUGHS" " No problem." "Here you go." "Here's one for you." "A device that allows beer drinkers to beat the queues is the offering from Robbie Ward." "Now just let it settle." "It will settle into a perfect pint." "He is seeking £200,000 in exchange for a 10% share in his self-pour pump business." "Wait, just look." " Bloody hell..." " There's an eerie silence, isn't there?" "Can we get a free tea break?" "I think that is pretty much settled there." "But the long wait for a perfect pint has left Deborah Meaden feeling a little flat." "Did that go how you expected it to go?" "The particular beer that we are pouring today is maybe one of the more challenging beers." "I've got to say, that wasn't the fastest and the best pour that I've seen." "We live and die by the quality of the pour, OK?" "And we've got to almost 3 million individual pours." "If our systems poured bad beer, there is no way we would have got past 3,000." "How many actual machines of these have you got out and about?" "We've had 75 individual sales." "So right now, we are holding an order from Bristol Sport, who are redeveloping the Bristol City and Bristol Rugby stadium, and self-pour is built into that stadium from the start." "We've done a trial with Man United in Old Trafford, and they loved it." "But we are expecting to go into possibly four stadiums this year, you know, as an initial burst." "The market in half-time refreshments for sports fans could offer an investor a winning return." "Sarah Willingham, a major player in the food and drink industry, wants to find out more about Robbie's cashless payment system." "Why did you go down the fob route?" "Why did you not put a credit card machine in them?" "You can't put cash into the machine because then it is a vending machine, and beer vending machines are not legal." "I really don't like the principle of the credit because I think it is a way of the bars making money from people." "Look, this..." "Our company..." "This system is not about stealing money from customers, OK?" "This is a tool to allow bars to be more efficient, OK?" "So I go on..." "I go on with my fob and I've got £1.50 credit, which I can't buy a beer for." "Can I go back and get a refund?" "If the operator has set it up so you can get refunds, then absolutely, yes." "And if he hasn't?" "Then what happens?" " Well, then, you can top up with the balance." " Oh, I see." " But let's assume I'm there for one night." " Yes." " I'm not going to go back there." " It's a fair point, but you can see how much customer credit has been loaded onto all of our systems worldwide, and we can see how that is being used." "And in fact, what we find is that they might only go back six months later to that bar thinking," ""Well, actually, I still have credit and I'm going to go back."" "We actually do see that happening on a daily basis." "I don't like when consumers' cash sits on a business' balance sheet." "And at some point, they move it into their cash because the consumers never claimed it." "I just think there's something fundamentally wrong with that for the consumer." "So I wish you all the best with it, but I am afraid it is not an investment or me." "So I'm out." "A setback for Robbie as the Dragon with form in this industry declines the deal." "And further trouble could be brewing as Peter Jones warms to one of his favourite themes." " Robbie." " Yes." " You've come in with a valuation here of £2 million." " Mm-hm." "And I'm sure that you said you've had £370,000 worth of sales." "That's correct." "What's the profit been?" "Our profit has been 19,000, net profit." "So far." "There's a couple of other things I need to tell you now." "Yeah, please, cos this will be good, cos we've got a business that made £19,000 that you're valuing at 2 million." "First thing, we have our first international distribution agreement in place for Australia." "There is a 50,000 licence fee and a minimum of 1.8 million worth of sales over three years." "So what do you make out of that contract?" "Our profit margin on that 1.8 million is 55%." "You know, we have been entrepreneurial and sold the system in concept stage to..." "You've sold 75 units." "While we have travelled the world selling those 75 units, we have uncovered some incredible opportunities along the way." "What, have you found gold?" "We have..." "We have..." "First of all, that's our sales pipeline." " We have some..." " No, no, that's a pipeline." "That's not..." "Let's live in the now, today." "What's worth 2 million today?" "The..." "Um..." "Look, you know, the..." "I think...that..." "OK, you know, to look at today, we need to look at today's sales" " and what we have at the moment, all right?" " Yeah." "So right now, we've got six sales that we're literally installing as we speak, OK?" "You know, we have strong..." "Robbie, is the answer, "I can't justify 2 million"?" "Cos you're floundering." "Is it not true to say, "Do you know what?" ""I don't think it is worth 2 million," ""but I thought I'd wing it."" "No, I don't feel like I'm winging it..." "Robbie, I'll tell you where I am." "I think you know where I am." "I congratulate you on creating a product and a business, but it is not investable at anything like the money and the value that you are suggesting it is worth today." "So, for that reason, I'm out." "Robbie loses his second Dragon, as Peter Jones fails to buy into his £2 million company valuation." "And Touker Suleyman has also made up his mind." "I don't go to pubs." "I believe that, yes, you may have a business for this at events." "But I think you will struggle to put them into local pubs and to reduce the amount of staff." "So, for that reason, I am out." "Can I ask what the funds are going to be used for?" "Um..." "You know, in a nutshell, market development." "When our potential customers see it, they genuinely do love it." "And it is a real kind of hands-on product." "We need to get it out there in front of them." "You could do this without my investment, couldn't you?" "I think without the money, we'd be fine." "But you know what?" "We have..." "Nick, we've worked way too hard, you know, put too much into this so far to be just fine, OK?" "This business..." "You know, we have an opportunity now to cement ourselves as the global leader." "Right, I'll tell you where I am." "I struggle to see how, if there's the right demand for it, that you really need the money to make this happen." "So I'm afraid I can't invest." "I'm out." "Nick Jenkins has walked away from the deal, unconvinced that Robbie really needs his cash." "With only Deborah Meaden yet to show her hand," "Robbie is drinking at the last chance saloon." "Robbie, I don't share the problem with the fob, to be perfectly honest, because the operator can recognise that as an issue and say, "There's your change."" " Exactly." " "Put the key back in, there's your change."" "So I like all of that." "I like the sports market." "I think you're going to make a go of this." "I think you are going to do well." "But I think the single biggest issue does get down to valuation." "I think the offer that I would have to make you at a value that I thought it was worth, you are not going to do, and I'm not going to waste your time and my time doing that." " That's true." " So I won't be investing." "I'm sorry, Robbie, but I'm..." "I'm out." "OK." "Are we done?" "Thank you so much." "All right." "Thank you." "So it's no deal and Robbie must leave the Den empty-handed." "But at least this mild-mannered entrepreneur's failure to secure an investment doesn't appear to have left him bitter." "I thought at one point, from the way Deborah was talking," "I was heading towards an offer." "But the valuation killed us." "Perhaps we should've gone in at a lower valuation, but we will go on to do great things and blow that valuation out of the water." "Onto our final pitch, delivered by two entrepreneurs with a business guaranteed to keep Britain's chocoholics, if not necessarily its dentists, smiling." "We both love chocolate." "We are obsessed by it." " We are basically just force-feeding each other constantly." " Yeah." " WHISPERS:" " It could be a big change." "It could be no change." " It could be." " We could be laughed out of there." " HE LAUGHS" "Is it chalk and cheese?" "Bert and Ernie or something like that?" " I think that's probably what we are like as a partnership." " Yeah." " Yeah, we complement each other quite well, I'd say." " And contrast." " Yeah." "Mm, of course." "Hello, Dragons." "My name is Morag and this is Paz." "We are the founders of Bad Brownie." "We make and sell a range of gourmet flavoured chocolate brownies." "We are here today to ask you for an investment of £60,000 in return for 15% of our company." "When we started just over a year and a half ago, we were baking out of a tiny kitchen and the oven was so basic it had one shelf that actually worked." "We were baking a couple of hundred brownies a week, and we took them in my battered old Nissan Micra to the markets and sold them." "Today, we have our own production units in South East London, which we designed and had built to our specifications." "We bake between 2,000 and 5,000 brownies a week nowadays." "And we sell these direct to consumers at a number of high-end food markets around London." "Morag and I... are complete foodies." "We've done over 100 flavours since we started." "Some of them include our best-selling salted caramel." "We also have a bacon and maple syrup brownie." "It does work, promise you." "Our turnover to date is in excess of 300,000." "With investment in the next 12 months, we project to turnover in excess of 800,000." "We would use your investment, together with our own capital, to open our first shop in Central London." "Paz mentioned that we are foodies, but we are also massive feeders." "And we'd like to start on that journey with you by offering you some samples of our brownies." "Sweet treats are the offering from Paz Sarmah and Morag Ekanger, who are seeking £60,000 in return for a 15% share in their brownie business." "'Mm!" "'" "Really good brownies!" "Paz and Morag's samples have given serial restaurateur Sarah Willingham an appetite to find out more." "What makes them so good?" "They're bad!" "Yeah, well, what makes them taste so good?" "We don't hold back on anything." "Anything at all." "So they are absolutely packed full of really good dark chocolate, loads of butter and loads of any ingredient that makes the flavours really, really stand out." "It's interesting that you are talking about wanting to open a shop." "Just sort of paint a picture of this store." "Cos this is where you want to spend the money." "OK, so it would be in Central London, sort of Soho, Covent Garden sort of an area, where there are other stores that sell sort of a single product." "Who is the creative chef here?" "We have hired a creative chef." "We no longer bake the brownies any more." " OK, so you guys just run the business." " Most recently, yes." " And have you taken a salary out of this?" " We take 15,000 each." " Each." "At the moment, yeah." " Are you partners?" " No." " You're not, OK." "So 15,000 each." " You can live off that, can you?" " Yes." "We each have very supportive partners, but, yes, we do." "And I must say, I've never eaten brownies like this." "There is a big tick there, ten out of ten." "But your retail model at the moment is not going to work." "Mm-hm." "But you're going to need a lot more than 60,000." "A lot more." "That's what...worries me." "You'll open a shop, it'll start making losses till it makes a profit and then you'll want more money." "You know?" "So..." "I don't know, I'll have to think about this." "Brownie points for their product, but Paz and Morag's plans to set up shop in one of London's priciest postcodes is fast becoming a sticking point in the Den." "I'd be amazed if you got a site in Soho or Covent Garden without paying a significant premium for it." "So the £60,000 is in addition to our own capital that we'll have as well, so we would be putting some of our own money into it, of course." " For this site, rent..." " Yeah." " ..staff costs..." "That is a lot of brownies you're going to have to sell." " So how many are you planning on selling?" " 20,000 turnover per month." "And what is your gross profit on that?" "It runs at approximately 50%." "Why is this so expensive to make?" "The ingredient cost itself is approximately 42p per £3.50 brownie." "OK." "And then what else goes into that?" "Packaging, we allow for approximately 10p per brownie." " What would the labour element of this be?" " WHISPERS:" " So, 1,500... 5,000 x 4, 20." "Let's say 15,000 brownies. 40p." "So 40p." "So you've got ingredients, you've got packaging and you've got labour." "That adds up to 92p out of £3.50." "And you were saying before your gross margin is 50%, so that is £1.70." "You are about to torpedo what is a lovely business because you are saying that your gross margin is... your gross margin is horrendous!" "Paz and Morag are in danger of sinking as Nick Jenkins blows a hole in their numbers." "Sarah Willingham, the Dragon with high street eatery expertise, has heard enough." " I mean, I've opened so many Central London sites." " Yes." "But with costs, you will not make any money on five grand a week, net turnover." "It's impossible." "The economics of it don't work." "I..." "I can't invest and I'm afraid I'm out." " OK, thank you." " Thank you, Sarah." "The thought of opening a shop is by far the wrong thing to even consider doing, but you can continue to make it work in the markets and you can continue to make it work by potentially renting space within other key delicatessens." "But it's not an investment where I think I could even make a small return, let alone a sizeable one, so I won't be investing and I'm out." "Paz and Morag's plans to branch into retail are proving a tough sell, as Peter Jones joins Sarah Willingham in walking away from the deal." "Are Deborah Meaden or Nick Jenkins prepared to turn their vision into a reality?" "Guys, I actually..." "I want to be able to eat those fudge brownies, so I am desperate for you to succeed." "Unfortunately, I do think retail is the wrong route to go down." "They're lovely, but as an investment, I don't get it." "So I'm afraid I'm out." "I think it will be very difficult to turn this into a retail concept." "By the time you have added on the rent, the manager's cost and the staff, that is an incredibly difficult business to be in." "And so..." "I look forward to eating more of it, but I'm..." "I'm afraid I can't invest." "I'm out." "Four Dragons are now out." "With over 40 years retail experience to his name, is Touker Suleyman poised to pull down the shutters on Paz and Morag's pitch?" "The real question for me is..." "How much money are you guys going to put in?" " To the retail?" " Yep." " Approximately 25,000." "And how much cash have you got in the business?" " You mean waiting in the bank account or...?" " Yeah." " It's about 35 at the moment." " You've got 35." "We have assets of about 40..." "Sorry, 25,000 at the moment as well." "How much debt have you got?" " None." " None." "I can see this in 1,000-square-foot shop where you've got 50 flavours sitting there and you've got a kitchen in the back making them and people come to you..." "Right?" "..because you are the brownie in London." "So do I want to have that journey with you?" "I'm going to make you an offer." "I'll give you all the money, but I want 35% of the business." " WHISPERS:" " OK." " Would you mind if we have a quick chat?" " Thank you." " Thank you." "A surprising development as Touker Suleyman goes against the perceived wisdom of the Den." "What do we do now?" "35%..." "Paz, that's just so much..." "He's prepared to bankroll Paz and Morag's assault on the high street, but he wants 20% more equity than the pair were originally looking to give away." "Thank you so much for your offer." "Um..." "It is much higher a percentage than we had wanted to give." "And, goodness, I almost don't have the nerve to ask, but is there any opportunity for you to reduce that to 30%?" "It was the highest that we are prepared to give away." "OK, guys, I don't want to take away your baby." "You know?" " I'll give you Touker time and I'll go to 30%." " Amazing!" "Thank you." "Thank you." " Great." " Thank you so much." " Well done, guys." "Congratulations." " We'll do something with this." " Great." " Lovely." " Thank you." " Looking forward to it." " Great." " Thank you so much." "Sticking to their guns over their high street shop concept has paid off for Morag and Paz." " WHISPERS:" " Did that just happen?" " Yes!" " So surreal." "So surreal." "They leave the Den with the only Dragon persuaded to share their vision and a crucial £60,000 of his cash." "I wasn't expecting an offer from him at all." "Touker time, isn't that amazing?" "Touker time!" "That's amazing." "So excited." "Amazing." "Well, we have been witness to an investment bonanza in the Den, with Dragons and entrepreneurs shaking hands on £190,000 and with three businesses now having the backing of a multimillionaire investor." "Congratulations to them all." "Job well done." "But don't forget, the really hard work starts now." "Yes!" "Coming up next time..." "Guys, exceptional product." "I'm actually quite shocked by how good it is." "Don't give me the salesman talk now." "If the product has sold out, would they have come back to you, yes or no?" " If it had sold out..." " Yes or no!" " Yes." "You are coming in here trying to value this business at £1 million." "I find that insulting." "You explained it." "You explained why your margin was going up, and your margin is not going up." "That is so blinking frustrating." "It is going to be wasted breath for anybody to have dialogue with you." "You have been stood here for a while now and I still don't get it." " Have I come across that badly?" " Well, you've come across like you don't know what you're talking about."