"Right now on "Close Up" "With The Hollywood Reporter,"" "we'll hear from the showrunners who've crafted the year's smartest comedies." "Every time you hand in a script for someone to read" "(Lacey)" "Right." "you're terrified." "The first cut, you're terrified." "Do you still get scared?" "Yes." "(laughter)" "Shows with working class people." "(Nahnatchka)" "Yeah." "Yeah." "Where people have regular jobs." "Like, we don't see any of those." "Since "Roseanne."" "Where are those shows?" "(laughter)" "There was this joke in the pilot, it would be like," ""How do you think a black guy would say hello?"" "(laughter)" "I'm like, you know, probably like that, but, you know," "I'll check at the meeting... (laughter) you know, and see what we're doing now." "I despise the room, and every show" "I've ever worked on has never had a room." ""Seinfeld" had no room." "It's like making love, you wanna go up to people and be like, "Is that how everyone else does it?"" "You know?" "'Cause you have your own way of doing it." "(laughter)" "(Lacey Rose)" "Alan Yang, "Master of None."" "David Mandel," ""Veep."" "Nahnatchka Khan," ""Fresh Off the Boat."" "Kenya Barris," ""Black-ish."" "Marta Kauffman," ""Grace and Frankie."" "Aline Brosh McKenna," ""Crazy Ex-Girlfriend."" "♪♪" "Welcome to "Close Up" "With The Hollywood Reporter."" "I'm Lacey Rose, television editor." "Let's jump right in." "Alan, you recently had talked about how, when you were starting out in this business, that it was really important to you to sort of work on universal shows." "And that you didn't want to be quote-unquote sort of seen as an Asian writer." "I'm curious when that changed." "You know, I think it was just making a specific show." "This show that we made." "And I was talking to Aziz about it, and we just wanted to make a show that was about us." "So it wasn't a political move," "It wasn't a statement, we just wanted to be like," ""Hey, let's put our lives into this show," ""let's put as much of ourselves into it as possible and try to be truthful,"" "and, to be honest, we've been blown away by the reaction by the Asian community, the Indian community, all kinds of people." "We didn't really even expect that, you know, that's not why we did it." "We just wanted to make something that was personal." "Come on, Denise, people don't get that fired up about racist Asian or Indian stuff." "I feel like you only really risk starting a brouhaha if you say something bad about black people or gay people." "I mean, if Paula Deen had said," "(with Southern accent)" ""I don't wanna serve" "Indian people,"" "no one would really care." "They'd just go back to eating the biscuits." "Yeah, but Paula Deen didn't get in trouble anyway." "I mean, she gave some fake-ass apology and then went back to making fatty foods." "True, but she did have to apologize, right?" "Like, she had to go meet with Al Sharpton." "I mean, that's kind of the punishment, right?" "You gotta find Al Sharpton and go have tea with him or whatever?" "I remember you talking about how you had written a pilot a few years ago" "Yeah." "Where you had written it a dad and a son, but it was a white dad and son." "Yeah, well, the first thing is, all the stuff" "I got produced was on a show called" ""Parks and Rec,"" "and there are no people who look like me on that show." "I mean, Aziz is in it." "Fair, fair, fair." "We had some stuff for him." "Yeah, I think it was just a situation where" "I was maturing as a writer, and I just felt like, the best stuff, to me, is the most honest stuff." "And the most personal stuff." "And the most truthful stuff." "And ultimately that specificity is what gives you the universality." "And I know that sounds highfalutin' or whatever, but I really think it's true." "Sure." "And with this show, we really felt like, especially with the freedom of Netflix and the freedom with structure and the freedom of who can be in each episode, and what kind of stories you can tell." "The time-frame, all of these things combined to give us a sense where anything is possible, and we really wanna surprise people, we really want to take the audience and really give them something they haven't seen before." "and that's our goal, and for Season Two, we're talking about, how can we make even crazier episodes?" "Episodes that they just don't expect at all." "And that's kind of our goal too." "(Lacey)" "Kenya, you've tackled some more challenging, more powerful issues." "The police brutality episode, obviously, is the one that sort of got the most attention." "You felt it was incredibly important for the show to do, but you've also said that you were terrified to sort of go there." "You know, we're still a nascent show." "My success is still, at this level, still very new." "You know, I remember when Arsenio got canceled." "I don't want to be the one who, y'know, say something to (bleep) my career up." "But, at the same time, one of the things about that episode, it was-- people called it the" ""Black Lives Matter" episode, and it really was not" "And you've never purposely never actually used those words." "I've never said those words, not that I don't support that movement, but I-- personally" "I believe, like, you know, it's "all lives matter,"" "and, I-- you know, that's where my head is at, but I feel like, the point of the episode was really, we're living in this world where there's so many images and things" "that our kids can't be escaped from." "And you have to learn how to talk to your kids about this." "Police brutality is one that, for me in particular," "I had to have that conversation with my young sons because they did not understand why the protestors were mad." "They love police cars, they love this, and I didn't want my personal... feelings about the police-- and my wife has different feelings about it-- so I was like, "How do we have this conversation?"" "And I kind of think that was why I wanted to do it." "Was to say, we're in this world where there's stuff with politics right now, there's stuff with sexuality, there's stuff with, you know, everything." "And how do you have these kind of talks with your kids?" "And not let our experiences sort of scorch the earth for them?" "But at the same time," "I don't want to tell my kids to not be aware that police brutality exists because they're young black men, and they may have some experiences, so it was sort of walking that fine line." "Dre, what're we gonna tell them?" "The truth." "They're children." "They're not just children, Bow." "They're black children, and they need to know the world that they're living in-- c'mon, Bow." "Think." "Dre, I'm not clueless here, all right?" "The twins are just still so little, and I'm not ready for them to think and see the world the way you do," "I mean, come on!" "Jack still thinks that when you swallow a piece of gum, it grows a gum-tree  in your stomach." "Gum-tree." "Yeah." "Kids." "But it does take seven years for it to digest, right?" "Oh, my God." "For the-- for the rest of you, what was the last-- when was the last time you were really actually scared to tell a story?" "You-- that you wanted to tackle, you felt it was important to tackle, but you were also pretty nervous about it." "Working in network sitcom arenas, like, whenever you decide to depart from the norm and tell a story that's not typical," "I think you're always a little bit nervous, you know?" "Like, we did an episode this year about representation." "Mm-hmm." "You know, the father, played by Randall Park, gets an opportunity to be on TV, and then suddenly all this pressure, because Asians never get a chance to be on TV, you know, so we were" "sort of doing this, you know, obviously meta-commentary on our show, but that's not a normal story." "You were supposed to go out there and promote the restaurant, not make a fool out of yourself?" "(impersonating Arnold Jackson)" "What you talkin' 'bout, woman?" "You love my impressions." "That was Arnold." "Not on television." "What's the difference?" "Name one Chinese person on TV." "Pat Morita." "Japanese, and you know it." "What's your point?" "We don't get opportunities to be on TV." "That's why, when we do, we need to present our best face." "Not clown around like you did today." "They love me." "(Nahnatchka Khan)" "You only have 22 minutes, not even, like," "21:30 to tell a story." "So you wanna do the material justice and the area justice, but you also wanna make it funny." "You also wanna not be preachy." "So you start to get nervous about that." "You're-- but it's an excited nervous." "You know, 'cause you're like," "I have this opportunity," "I wanna tell the story," "I wanna make sure I get it exactly right." "And, in a way, that's exactly what we're talking about, in the show." "Right, right, right." "You know?" "I find every day terrifying, so-- you know, every time you hand in a script for someone to read" "Right." "You're terrified." "The first cut, you're terrified." "Do you still get scared?" "Yes!" "(laughter)" "(Lacey)" "Your shows deals with the aging process." "Are there topics that you're like," ""Ooh, I don't know, are we ready for this?"" "Or... or... no?" "We had more of an issue with that stuff on NBC." "You know, like I said, the lesbian wedding was a big, big deal... (Lacey)" "Mm-hmm, mm-hmm." "...in the early '90s." "I think the network was nervous, so they made us nervous." "Yeah." "We weren't scared." "Right." "We certainly don't have that issue now because, you know, Netflix is so open to whatever." "Mm-hmm." ""Lubri-can,"" ""Men-applause."" ""Yam-bam, thank you, ma'am?"" "We'll throw that one in!" "Yeah." "So they'll pick one of mine." "They're gonna name it the Frankie Bergstein" "Memorial Lube!" "(laughing)" "Now with lice." "Let me have it," "I would love to host life!" "What is that?" "Well, according to the deal we hammered out with the lube, they're putting my art on the box." "And I know what" "I wanna paint." "What?" "My vagina." "The baby boomers, especially women, are the largest percentage of the population right now." "And there was nothing for them." "And as I find myself heading over that... 35?" "Yes." "(laughter)" "I wish..." "Um, I felt like where are the women going through things that are real, and what is it to be that age, and be alone?" "(Lacey)" "Mm-hmm?" "That was the goal, and we couldn't have done it anywhere else, certainly  not a couple years ago." "It's funny too, 'cause "Golden Girls"" "is one of the most successful sitcoms." "(Aline)" "Oh, my God, one of the funniest." "And people love it." "One of the funniest." "And that was it, like, no-- nothing after that." "(Kenya)" "Just went away." "Nobody tried to do it again." "No one tried to do it again." "They were just like," ""That's it."" "(Aline)" "It is interesting." "I feel the same way about, like, shows with working class people." "Yeah." "Yeah." "Where people have regular jobs." "Like, we don't see any of those shows." "Since "Roseanne"." "Where are those shows?" "Yeah." "We haven't done one." "Like, they-- no one-- they" "(Nahnatchka)" "They just died away." "They just died." "Yeah." "It's like, everyone has a sweet job in New York." "Right." "(laughter)" "♪♪" "♪♪" "Welcome back to "Close Up" "With the Hollywood Reporter"." "We're getting the inside scoop from the showrunners behind TV's funniest comedies." "David and Marta, in the '90s, what could you sort of get away with in "Seinfeld" and "Friends"" "that you wouldn't be able to get away with now?" "And conversely, what can you do now that you definitely  couldn't have done then?" "I think we had different experiences slightly." "Well, certainly." "Obviously creator versus person who worked there." "Well, not even that." "Our show was at its height during a very reactionary period of time." "They had just done either the masturbation episode or the condom episode." "(David)" "Okay." "We were doing an episode a year later about the two women fighting over the last condom in the box." "The last condom in the bathroom, right." "And they wouldn't let us take the condom out of the box." "Not even out of the wrapper." "Out of the box." "Wow." "So, having done HBO, and now doing Netflix... (Lacey)" "Mm-hmm?" "...it's very liberating." "Mm-hmm." "On the other hand, the restrictions in a way give you a different kind of freedom." "What was the rationale be-- behind not being able to take it out of the box though?" "(Marta sighs, laughter)" "Don't start me on that." "It was just, suddenly, standards and practices were up our butts." "It was just a really reactionary time." "When we did the-- the lesbian wedding episode, everybody was up in arms, and they put 104 operators on... (Lacey)" "Huh." "...for fear of getting a million phone calls." "And?" "They got two." "A month later, they got the letters." "Mm-hmm." "But nobody called." "And the letters were all that sort of form from Reverend... (Kenya)" "Mm-hmm." "Wildmon?" "Was that his name?" "He's still around, the guy who's still around?" "What a putz." "(Kenya)" "Yes." "(laughter)" "But language was, I mean" "I did not know that about the condom-- but I mean, I don't know, when I watch a lot of network television right now," "I'm" " I'm shocked, I guess," "(laughter) by the discourse, if you will." "There's-- it's pretty foul-mouthed on regular 8:00," "8:30, 9:00 shows that make me laugh." "Foul-mouthed like (bleep)?" "No, not (bleep)." "No, like dirty stuff." "But certainly just like implying" "Balls jokes." "A lot of balls jokes." "The balls." "But implying" "A bitch-off." "Well, partly what's happened because of the cable-- the subscription, the streaming, all that stuff, is that there's so much bold stuff on TV." "We're at the CW and, like, they are like," ""Go nuts, go for it, let us pull you back."" "There's so much stuff on the air now, people want stuff that breaks out and is buzzy." "So, any time we come up with something that's like controversial or whatever, they're excited about it." "♪ I gave you," "I gave you ♪" "♪ A UTI, a UTI ♪" "♪ Not an STD, no STDs ♪" "♪ Just to clarify ♪" "Okay, good to know-- whoa!" "♪ If it hurts to take a leak ♪" "♪ Well, that's just part of my technique ♪" "♪ What has two thumbs and gave you a UTI?" "♪" "♪ This guy ♪" "♪ I gave you a UT" "I gave you a UT-- ♪" "♪ I gave you ♪" "♪ A UTI!" "♪♪" "It's funny, 'cause I did TV right around in that sort of post-"Friends" time when everyone was trying to copy "Friends"." "(laughter)" "Um, and one of the reasons that I left was because it was so narrow..." "Yeah." "...what people wanted, which was "Friends"." "Or "Seinfeld"." "Um, and now, it's so interesting" "But they didn't really want" ""Friends" or "Seinfeld"." "They didn't really, no." "And they didn't know what it was." "They wanted "Friends"" "or "Seinfeld", but then they wanted to tell you what "Friends"" ""and "Seinfeld" were." "Right, and they had no idea." "(overlapping chatter)" "They had no idea." "And so, now, it's like, this is 15 years later, and the climate couldn't be more different." "Yeah." "I mean, I always feel like it's the '70s on TV and it's the '50s in the movies." "You know, it's all changed." "Like, the movies are very conservative in terms of what they'll do and what they'll make, and the TV are like you know, old '70s movies where it's like" "This is amazing time for TV." "(Lacey)" "Yes." "We did a balls thing on our show, and um-- 'cause we started at Showtime, so we were a cable show to begin with." "So, we were-- wrote a completely, and made an uncensored version of the pilot." "And then we remade the pilot for CW." "So, we did a censored version of the pilot." "And one of the songs has a line," ""Your balls smell weird, your balls smell weird, your balls smell so much worse than I feared."" "And, um... (Marta laughs)" "What did she fear?" "And... (laughter)" "So, in order to get it through, there's the guy at the bar that she picks up-- he has two stress balls in his hand and he's going like this." "And that was the only way-- and so it was like, because there was a sight gag there, we were able to use it," ""your balls smell weird"." "We couldn't even" "But Rachel didn't wanna do it, 'cause she thought it was corny to do a, um, thing." "And I was like, if you wanna say on television that someone's balls smell weird, they're gonna have to be stress balls in the shot." "Yeah." "We couldn't even-- when we started the show-- couldn't say "nipple."" "No!" "That's crazy." "We couldn't say "nipple," we ended up saying "nipular." Um..." "What?" "Whoa." "'Cause they wouldn't let us say "nipple."" "Like, "Your nipulars are showing?"" "In '93." "(laughter)" "Not quite." "Okay." "Not quite, but... you got the idea." "I like that standards person, coming up-- like, staying up late at night." ""Nipples, nipples, nipples, we can't say nipples, but what about nipular?"" "That was ours, we had to describe the nipple." "So, what are the things you guys feel like you can't believe that you actually have been able to get on there?" "We did a run where one of the characters was worried about his kids on the computer." "(Lacey)" "Mm-hmm?" "And he was, like, looking up-- this kid-- 'cause this happen-- actually happened to me." "And my kid was doing a-- a report on pterodactyls." "Mm-hmm?" "And it's a sex act. (laughs)" "Yeah." "Oh, yeah." "And I was like, oh, we should do a different dinosaur." "(laughter)" "And on the show, we started saying, you know, "rusty trombone"" "and stuff." "But we were-- just started making stuff up." "You know what I'm saying?" ""A Brook-- a Brooklyn dynamo."" "And it was really stuff." "And" "Everything you can think of." "We had-- we had a joke about spidering, and Standards and Practices were like," ""Oh, you're not gonna get that past us."" "That's what they told us." ""We know what that is!"" "We're like" "And I was like, what is that?" "Um, we ended getting some pretty risqué sex acts on." "Huh." "Chicken cooping." "Ooh." "I don't know what these things are." "I have no idea what these thing" "I don't know what they are!" "This is why it got past them." "If I told you" "The rest of us are going..." "If I told you what spi-- if I told you what spidering was, you'd never stop throwing up." "It's just like, it's-- there's two things that are spidering and they're both unbelievably disgusting." "Do you cocoon someone in a web?" "La, la, la, la." "(Nahnatchka)" "Is that part of it?" "Spin them around?" "(Aline)" "Not with web." "Spidering... (overlapping chatter)" "Spidering is when the man puts his penis in the woman." "(laughter)" "I'm out." "(laughter)" "(Nahnatchka)" "No, thanks." "All right." "We did one episode where it was a whole thing about this guy wearing shorts and no underwear, and you could see his balls coming out of his pants." "That,theyletusdo, but not a condom." "This was on "Friends"." "Mm-hmm." "Oh, wow." "You blurred it, but-- or, how did you do" "No, we didn't blur it, it was all about put the mouse back in the house, and he was just standing with his leg like this, and we shot through his legs." "Oh, that's hilarious." "Well, you wonder if that's a male-female thing too poten" "Who knows?" "Who knows?" "It's very-- actually very-- you know, it really has to do with that particular Standards and Practices department." "Mm-hmm?" "And so, we just did a number which was-- had a lot of sexy stuff and underwear stuff and there's-- we got away with a thing where he takes her hand and pushes her head down out of frame." "(chuckles)" "Mm-hmm?" "What does that mean?" "Um, it means..." ""Spidering."" "(laughter)" ""I dropped something on the floor."" "But we had the SP lady." "It's called a low spider." "(laughter)" "Low spider." "The itsy-bitsy." "We actually invited our SP lady to sit on the set, and she hung out and watched the filming, just so that-- instead of sending her screen caps and everything, so she could be there." "But you guys are on, um, cable and streaming, you don't have to worry" "That's so funny 'cause" "And I'm jealous, man." "What's ironic is" "I worked on a show now..." "I'm jealous." "...that has taken the foul language perhaps to an art form, to some extent." "Mm-hmm, yes." "The very elegant combinations of (bleep) and whatnot." "And yet-- and-- and I love it, and it's wonderful, and it's really fun." "But I" " I don't know why, but I have a very hard time when I am watching," "I guess I'll simply say the average CBS show, and I go... (Lacey)" "Yeah." "...whoa, that's filthy!" "I don't know what else to say." "Well, but we're always saying, like, you can take-- you can take an ice pick and put it through someone's head, or you can, like-- 'cause people are killed on network shows in the most" "disgusting, gruesome." "serial killer-y way, but you can't show-- we had a thing where we have to cover Rachel's nipples and certain things, and it's like..." "I don't know, man," "I think that the, uh, the thing where someone gets garroted with their own belt is gonna be" "Intestines." "Right." "The intestines, better-- is a little scarier than seeing a woman's nipples." "See, that's how a writer's room works, just like that." "Exactly, exactly." "(laughter)" "I'm sure they've done garroted with the intestines." "I'm sure." "Probably." "On "Bastard Executioner"." "Yes." "I feel like that was episode one." "Didn't you do that on your show?" "Yes, yeah." "Often." "(overlapping chatter)" ""Stop garroting your brother with his intestines."" "♪♪" "♪♪" "Welcome back to "Close Up" "With The Hollywood Reporter"." "We're talking to the showrunners at the helm of TV's funniest comedies." "David, does the absurdity of what's really going on in the political world make it harder for you to do your job?" "Do you live in fear that people are sitting there saying," ""Not as crazy as the real thing."" "I mean, I'm assuming everyone's gonna turn into our season waiting to see our take on Trump, and we don't have one." "There is no Trump character." "We wrote this a year ago, and we're not a real-world political show." "We are inspired by." "And I think even with Trump, there are pieces of pomposity and absurdity that we've taken, but we're not doing a-- a real-life documentary" "(Lacey)" "Does it make the job harder?" "I do think it makes it harder," "I think I was saying to you at some point, you know, back in my SNL days, it-- it got harder and harder to do parody commercials." "'Cause they were so ridiculous." "Because commercials started getting funnier and funnier." "(Alan)" "Yeah." "When they were more serious, you could make fun of them." "When they're kind of fun and musical, or whatever, what's the parody?" "And there are those elements." "Why don't you check your phones?" "Sounds like he's shoplifting a bunch of vibrators." "The Nevada State" "Supreme Court issued a temporary stay of certification." "The count will continue." "(laughing)" "Oh, my prayer worked!" "Wow." "Right?" "Maybe." "Maybe." "Wow, you wanted help from above, here it is." "What a relief." "Yeah, it's fantastic!" "Mom, what's going on, what's everyone cheering about?" "Is Mee-Maw better?" "Catherine!" "You know, in a perfect world," "Selina Meyer should be the worst, most absurd character." "(Aline)" "Now, she's looking" "Right now, she's kinda running second." "Yeah." "(laughter, overlapping chatter)" "I think though that's the thing that I actually" "(clears throat)" "I personally think that's probably the best show on TV, it's my favorite show." "I did not create it," "I'll repeat that for the world." "I think it's a great show too, it's why I took the job." "(Kenya)" "I love the show, but I love it because for me, I am so not versed in that world." "(Lacey)" "Mm-hmm?" "That as absurdist as it may be, it feels like I'm getting a little bit of a peek behind, you know, the curtain, and I think that's what's great about your show, what's great about your show," "what's great about your show, what's great about your show." "I get to" " I think that's what the diversity of television for me." "Right." "And there's a little bit of anger I get from the American white guy, because it's not necessarily just about them anymore." "Yeah." "You know what I'm saying?" "Their TV" "Their ship is sailing." "It is branching out." "To me, that's the-- the greatest." "(Marta)" "I'm sure... you experienced that as well." "That would make me crazy." "I don't know how else to say it to you, it would honestly make me crazy." "'Cause the thing that" "I mean... oh, I was just gonna say, the word that we keep batting around here is "authentic"." "Mm-hmm." "And I think at the end of the day, when a story works... and "Veep", sometimes-- obviously our stories are political, so it's not 100%, but for us, most of the time," "whether it was "Seinfeld"," ""Curb" and a bunch of "Veep", usually it's somebody coming in, my-- or myself going, here's something that kinda happened to me once..." "Yes." "...and I'm gonna take this and do that." "In our old "Seinfeld"" "and "Curb" days," "I kid you not, we didn't even read spec scripts." "We just said, "Give us a list of ideas." "Give us 20 ideas, give us for each character."" "You'd go through them, you'd read 30 terrible ideas." "You get down to one and go," ""Hey, this one in the stereo store, what-- tell me about this."" "It happened to me." "And that would be the one where the guy goes," ""Oh, that actually happened to me and my wife."" "It happened to me." "And you go," ""Well, this is great, these others are garbage, go off and think..."" "Yeah, but it's so weird and funny, like... (David)" "And it doesn't matter that "Seinfeld"" "had white people in it, or men, or women, or whatever." "When you were talking about your show, when you just sort of said it came from your experience, and originally he was a black TV writer, that's why it works." "That's why I love "Seinfeld"," "Yeah, yeah, no, yeah." "because you got the authen-- authenticity of that." "Right." "But the problem started becoming, everything was that point of view." "You know what I'm saying?" "Completely agree." "Yeah, no, no," "I'm just talking about when I think shows work." "I think shows work... (Nahnatchka)" "I agree, and I think-- when they tap into that, whatever the show is, yeah." "And you can approach things," "I think, and be-- you know, from authentic angle, but a different angle than people have seen." "Yes!" "It's like, if I waited to write only for a Persian lesbian," "I'd still be waiting." "Like, no one's-- no show is" "But I think the larger problem is" "But I know how to write" "But I have to write for a Persian" " Persian lesbian, it's one thing to write  a character, but it's another thing for me to be like-- to sort of embrace" "To understand the point of view." "But I find that the bad writing is when it's like," ""Well, it's Persian lesbian, so she's gotta be, like..." "Sure." "...some weird kind of like, something."" "Exactly." "That's what I mean." "Yeah, you-- yes." "But I can write for straight white men, because those are the jobs, you know what I mean?" "(Alan laughing)" "Like, if you wanna be a writer, you have to learn to write in other people's voices until you get the chance to write in your own." "Now, we get to sort of flip the switch, and we get to tell stories that maybe you've seen before through a different lens." "Yeah, I think there's something to shows where there is that authenticity." "And our show is about two 30-year-old guys who are Asian and Indian, and the guys who create the show are Asian and Indian." "So, to me, the difference is, yeah," ""Harold and Kumar's"" "a great movie," "I like that movie, but I'm glad that there's a show that's about those two characters that is made by people who look like them." "'Cause there are certain things that you've experienced that maybe someone who doesn't look like you hasn't experienced, and that's" "And not to say that only those people can write that." "And we're not saying that it's only those people, but it adds-- it adds an element that people are picking up on." "(Aline)" "It does add an element, it really does." "We have a writer on our staff," "Rene Gube, who's brilliant and is Filipino." "Like, he helps us a lot with Vinnie, who's Filipino." "But he also helps us a ton with Rachel, who he really understands he comedic voice." "Totally." "And he will riff huge Rachel bits 'cause he understands her comedic sensibility." "It's like, there's this thing with the diversity writers where it's made a little bit to feel like you're doing it to be good or to be nice, or, like, to even out the room for some," "like, political reason." "But the truth is, when you're doing a room, like, you want as many diverse points of view as possible." "You know, you want people who are older, younger, different backgrounds" "And let's be serious now, not older." "(laughter)" "♪♪" "♪♪" "Welcome back to "Close Up" "With The Hollywood Reporter"." "We're with the showrunners leading the year's comedic hits." "Were there points earlier in your careers where you felt either pigeonholed, or you were acting so that you were not pigeonholed as writers?" "I definitely did, 'cause after "Friends", all they wanted me to do was create another..." "Ensemble?" "... multi-camera show." "And I felt like," "I've done that." "I can't compete with myself on this one." "Mm-hmm." "So, I've got to redefine." "You dropped the mic on that." "Yeah." "But people want you in a box." ""This is what you do, here's your lane."" "Yeah." "Yeah, I didn't like that at all, and I tried" "I did a documentary about, of course, you know," "Holocaust stuff." "(laughter)" "Um..." "Naturally, that's the next idea." "Yes, absolutely." "Like, "You want another multi-cam?"" "Holocaust." "Yeah." "I will say, Schwimmer was fantastic in that." "(laughter)" "He kills me." "Did you ever at points in your career feel like" "I mean, I was the only woman in the room a lot of times..." "Uh-huh." "... so I felt like, you know, people looked at me for like the wife joke, or, like, the daughter joke." "Yup." "Yup. (laughs)" "You know, like," ""What do you think?"" "Or-- and I'd be like, I" "(Alan)" "Uh..." "I don't like it." "Uh-huh." "But you know, I wrote on "American Dad", which is a cartoon." "You know, I've had like a sort of diverse background, so I've written for people and for cartoons and for voiceovers." "But for me, it was just like the sort of female voice." "One time, there were two of us on a show, and like, that was like, you know, heaven had opened up, where we-- they could, like, split us into two rooms." "Uh-huh." "But we never got to work together." "'Cause it was like," ""We need one in here and one in here."" "Well, someone has to do the wife jokes." "Absolutely." "Exactly, exactly." "Do you feel like that came from-- without names-- from the showrunner?" "I mean" "I mean, I will simply say going back all the way to "Seinfeld", obviously, Elaine was the one female character, and we had at different times female writers." "But at no point-- at any point was it the idea that somehow you're the lady, lady, write for Elaine." "Right." "We only hire ladies to write..."" "Yup." "I did" " I was the black guy who wrote for black guys." "Really?" "Most of my show was actually created around-- originally-- he's an ad executive now, but in the pitch he was a television writer." "Huh." "You know, and it was often, like, you know, there was a joke in the pilot, it would be like," ""How do you think a black guy would say hello?"" "And I'm like, you know, probably like that, but you know," "I'll check at the meeting, and see what we're doing now." "You know, that's why" "I sort of" "I struggle with the diversity slot." "Yeah." "You know what I'm saying?" "Especially when it's a lower level, that person, they're put into the room in a position where they're looked at as the diversity person." "And they're already low-level, so your voice isn't really loud." "You know, so I kinda think that my diversity slot would say, "Give me a supervising producer."" "Mm-hmm." "(clears throat)" "That's interesting though." "Do you guys, when you have lower level people do-- 'cause I had not run a TV be" " TV show before." "And I don't care who-- who speaks up." "Like, I don't tell the staff writer not to talk as much as the co-EP." "Like, everybody is encouraged to talk." "Our writer's assistants pitch." "I don't even-- yeah, our writer's assistants pitch." "I always say I'm a comedy whore," "I'll take it from anybody." "(laughter)" "Give me the idea," "I'll take it." "I'm gonna be honest, which was" "I tried to make a point of going up to sort of our lower level youngest and just sort of trying to let them know..." "Speak up." "I do want them to speak up, but I did" "I also did say to them though," "I don't want to feel the pressure to speak up." "I'm not gonna count the number of things you say." "'Cause there's the pressure the other way too." "In a perfect world, I would like to teach a little bit, and I don't necessarily want to teach the idea that-- just-- just speak, just-- just fill." "Yes." "And there's some" "So that it can work" "I mean it's-- again, sort of there's two ways of thinking about it." "That's so generous of you, 'cause I just, like write down on a piece of paper... (overlapping chatter)" "(David)" "So you don't count." "On your score card?" "They're like," ""What are you writing?"" "I'm like, don't worry about it." "A friend of mine was on his show..." "You'll find out from your agent." "(laughter)" "And the showrunner... the showrunner, if you had a bad idea, made you put a dollar in the middle of the table." "No!" "(Kenya)" "No!" "Can you imagine anybody wanting to speak" "I would be the richest man." "Is that a real story?" "That's a real story." "Like a shame jar." "Yeah." "A bad pitch, dollar goes in." "Yeah." "I'd have so much money in it." "We all would." "But I-- we don't have-- one of the things" "I really like about my room, is we like everyone to talk." "Like you said, we all take it from anywhere." "But I do agree that it's important to let the writers who are sort of getting their feet know that they are notbeingjudged." "You know, like it's..." "Totally." "But at the same time," "I do want you to be emotive, and I do want you to participate." "Yes, no, absolutely." "You want them to participate, but just not the pressure." "You want to think that they're" "I think the size of these rooms are-- are changing so much too, where, you know, there are times on our show where we have three writers." "And so, we need everyone to talk." "Like, we need everyone to contribute, we don't have the luxury of people." "But I mean, this brings up a larger point." "Yeah." "Which is when you were with three writers," "I mean, do you really" "I don't consider that a room." "(laughter)" "Let me start with this." "No, I agree." "I despise the room." "And every show" "I've ever worked on has never had a room." "(Aline)" "Oh, that's interesting." ""Seinfeld" had no room." "Oh, wow." "Even when Larry left and it took a couple of us to replace him, the individual writers were responsible for their individual stories, and then I guess you-- at some point, I guess," "Jerry the writer and maybe one or two other people might go through and page through it." "But never-- my least favorite thing-- and again, I'm only speaking for myself-- my least favorite thing is writing in a room." "I" " I think you can make something funnier that already exists in a room, but I despise  the group thing." "And every year when I do a pilot or two to help out a friend, and I sit there and watch them tear it apart and put it back together in a room, it's awful, and I do think" "it's why there is a lot of bad network television." "(Marta)" "I actually" "I" " I will say." "I don't know that" "I agree with that." "Fair enough." "Obviously, what works for you works for you." "I find that what a room can do is keep you honest." "I agree." "No, see, I think the exact opposite." "I think" " I think you get-- the room creates" "You've been in some" "(bleep) rooms." "I've been with really good people." "The room creates joke-like substances, it's" "It depends on-- that depends on the show." "Mmm." "Do you bring stories to the room?" "That depends on the show." "We'll talk about-- we'll have lunch and talk about, like, ideas." "Like, an area or something?" "But hard outlining is meant to be done with one person and their dry erase board." "(overlapping chatter)" "(Alan)" "Wow, that's really interesting." "I could not write my show without the room." "(Aline)" "Me too." "You know what I'm saying?" "As much as it comes from, a lot of times my point of view... (Nahnatchka)" "Definitely." "my point of view would be so specific..." "Yeah." "You know, and honestly, it's a very conversational show, we don't do a lot of jokes." "And we get into-- it's a room full of love, you know what I'm saying, and hate at times, but we-- we always still like each other." "(Nahnatchka)" "Yup." "But it's important if I say" "I'm freaked out by two dudes kissing, that we finally get to-- to the end of it, that I'm freaked out by a dude and a girl kissing too." "(laughter)" "That wouldn't happen unless we went through two hours of conversation." "That's an interesting thing" "Yeah, no, everyone does it differently, obviously." "Interesting thing about showrunning is, like, you just have to go in." "I had, you know, done some work in TV, but I didn't really have time to figure out how anyone else did it." "It's like, you just go in, and it's like" "Nora Ephron said about directing, it's like making love." "You wanna go up to people and be like," ""Is that how everyone else does it?"" "You know, 'cause you have your own way of doing it." "And you just have to find your own way that works for you." "(David)" "Oh, of course, yeah." "And the great thing is if it's your own thing, you get a chance to and..." "Sure." "But writers are kinda subject to the environment, the culture that the boss creates." "And I've also heard sort of horror stories about what people have been through." "And we prefer making love with a ton of people." "Dave does it by himself." "Right, right." "(laughter)" "♪♪" "♪♪" "Welcome back to "Close Up" "With The Hollywood Reporter"." "We are here with the minds behind the year's smartest comedies." "How do you guys feel about stunt casting?" "We are asked this all the time," ""When are you bringing" "Dolly Parton on?"" "Yes." "Oh." "I don't even like that, because it takes you out of" "I love her so much." "I love her too." "I adore her." "I'm not gonna lie." "I would be in for that," "I'm just saying." "I completely adore her." "Will she come for lunch at least?" "But the minute she's on the show..." "What about lunch?" "It becomes something else." "...it's about "9 to 5"." "No, totally." "It's no longer about, you know, Grace and Frankie." "I feel a little bit the same way about stunt casting." "You have to be really careful when you're bringing people on that it doesn't, like, draw focus away from the show." "And they approached us really gingerly with a stunt casting that they thought we would be opposed to, and was so perfect for our show." "And we had Dr. Phil on our show." "And because we have mental health stuff on the show, he was actually the perfect person." "And just FYI, like, he's an amazing improviser." "Oh, really?" "He might even be a good actor." "He was incredible." "I think he's a good actor." "Solid actor." "He's a really good actor, but he's particularly a good improviser." "Like, he basically was like," ""Well, if you want me to say this crap, I'll say it." "But this is not crap" "I'd ever say in real life."" "Okay, Dr. Phil." "And Rachel was like," ""Just say whatever you wanna say, man." "He's such a sweet guy." "Just say whatever you wanna say."" "(overlapping chatter)" "And then he just, like, went off, and it was so great, and she was so game, and he was-- he was amazing," "(Lacey)" "That's funny." "and he improvised a lot of stuff." "I love it." "So, did they bring Dr. Phil to you, because I" " I" "They asked me" "They asked, "Would you be interested in Dr. Phil?"" "And I think they were-- again, they were very ginger, 'cause they didn't want" "But they had him." "Had him interested?" "No, they said they-- 'cause I guess, whatever, corporate..." "They had some-- some of" "Some-- somebody had touched him." "Did your Dr. Phil episode air?" "Yes." "Was it an uptick?" "Did you get ratings?" "I mean..." "I don't know that-- ...what does one get in Dr. Phil?" "Yeah, I'm just curious." "It was a help for some publicity." "But I think sometimes you see shows do it and they-- it's a bid for that." "And I don't" "I think you're right," "I don't think it ever really-- it's only a good fit if it really is, like, funny and great for the show." "(Kenya)" ""Friends" did an amazing job at it," "I mean, and it was-- that's what I was gonna say." "For me, I'm so afraid of stunt casting because I have to go get the stunt." "(Marta)" "Right." "Right." "You know, that's why I was wondering if they brought him to you, 'cause they always say, like," ""Who do you guys want?"" "So, it's like," "Tom Cruise was on the list." "I'm like, do you have" "Tom Cruise?" "Right." "Or are you just telling me, like, this" "Let's get Tom Cruise to play, like, the video store owner." "They're like," ""What about Tom Cruise?"" "Yeah, that'd be fantastic." "I'm with that." "Yeah, call him up!" "Stunt casting is an exercise in pain." "(David)" "It is, and it never works." "'Cause you start with, you know, we're gonna go after a Dustin Hoffman." "Uh-huh?" "And you end up with someone you think you've heard of." "Right, and you're not quite sure." "And-- and they don't wanna do your show, is what it feels like over and over and over again." "Yeah, you have to take that rejection." "Yes, right." "The one time it's worked was this year, we wrote into the, like, DNA of our show that the main little kid loves Shaq." "And our show takes place in the mid-'90s." "And we were able to cast Shaq, and that's the only time." "But I feel like" "He's in Orlando." "He's in Orlando, it's connected, we set it up for, like, a season, basically." "He was talking about" "Shaq and how much" "And the fact that we act-- 'cause I went down that road." "I'm like, who are we really gonna get?" "Like, we're gonna want Shaq and then we're gonna like..." "But I would also argue-- and having seen that episode..." "Yeah." "you crafted a very, very complicated-- with the door behind the door behind the door behind the door." "Which even if-- if you remove Shaq from that idea, that was a really funny idea about" "It wasn't dependent on-- about car dealerships." "(Nahnatchka)" "Yeah, exactly, well, thank you" "Like, it was almost like a game of death," "Bruce Lee, like get into the next room, get into the next room." "Like, who's the big boss?" "Yes, who's the big boss?" "Yeah, exactly." "And-- and it was Shaq, and it worked." "Yeah." "But even if Shaq had never worked, that idea stood on itself, and that's the problem..." "Right." "...when an idea doesn't stand on itself, yes." "Yes, yes." "And that's what we fought for, 'cause they were like," ""Well, we have Shaq, let's put him in more."" "You know what I mean?" "It's always like more, it's like," ""Are we really just gonna have him in one scene?"" "We have-- we have-- we set up a thing all last season about Kenny Loggins." "Mm." "And we have him..." "Yes!" "...in the first episode of the third season for a very brief time." "And the note kept-- they kept saying..." ""More."" ""...more Kenny Loggins."" "It's like, no, no, no." "We have other characters to service, don't-- we're getting Kenny Loggins!" "There's also-- there's also an issue which is, in your casting of a sh-- like, non-stunt parts, you hold the people that come in for, like," "(Nahnatchka)" "Totally." "whether it's the waiter, or whatever part..." "Yeah, to a certain standard." "...to a really high standard, a really high standard." "And then, all of a sudden, because they are a famous movie person or famous whatever, they're gonna let someone come in who can't act..." "I also won't-- ... or isn't funny, doesn't do your rhythms and whatever, and you're stuck with that, yeah." "won't cast-- won't cast-- won't cast people who won't come in." "Yeah." "Because it's just-- it's too much of a wild card." "But it's hard to go, we need a, you know, large center from a basketball team." "Right." "Could you bring in" "Patrick Ewing to read and-- you know, that's not gonna happen." "Where's Kevin McHale?" "(Aline)" "Right." "Right." "It's not the same." "(Kenya)" "And gen-- in general," "I think on "Friends", it actually did work," "I mean, they were so big." "But like, there's-- when Britney Spears did "How I Met Your Mother", that might have saved that show." "(Nahnatchka)" "Yeah." "You know what I'm saying?" "It was like right" "And they-- they reference that all the time, 'cause my same studio," "20th Century Fox, did "How I Met Your Mother", and they always still talk about that Britney Spears moment." "But that was such a" "As though it was a huge success, and therefore" "A huge success, but what they fail to mention is that Britney Spears, at that time, was going through, like, this very public meltdown." "Right." "Yes." "Like, it wasn't just, she was just Britney Spears existing" "It's like, she shaved her head." "People were excited to see if she was ambulatory, right." "I mean, it was like a-- like, it was the exact right thing at the right moment to get people to watch, because she was just, you know, dominating..." "People are bad." "We wanna see people implode." "...every media outlet." "It wasn't just a name, it wasn't just a big name, insert here." "Yeah." "But I think, you know," "I think it did do that show a lot of good." "Friends of mine years ago worked on "Herman's Head", if you can remember" ""Herman's Head"." "Oh, I used to love that." "And they would get very encouraged to do-- you got a stunt cast, like, this week, big model thing, and we're gonna get-- whatever." "So, they would start with, like, the list of all the big models." "And then, they didn't get those, and then they would kind of go to sort of the-- sort of B-level models." "(Marta)" "Right." "And then, before you knew it, the episode was airing, and here's supermodel Martinka  that they would have to make up." "(laughter)" "♪♪" "♪♪" "Welcome back to "Close Up" "With The Hollywood Reporter"." "We're with the showrunners behind the year's most hilarious shows." "How would your parents have described who you guys were growing up?" "I wouldn't-- oh, God." "(laughter)" "You sound like you have a great answer!" "We're gonna start with you, Marta." "She's fine."" "(laughter)" "Yes." "Absolutely, "she's fine."" "That's so funny." "I remember the first time my brother described me as a know-it-all, and I was, like, so shocked and appalled." "And um, took me so many years to figure out that that was right." "(laughter)" "But like, your family always has you dead to rights." "And it's so funny, 'cause last week at my son's bar mitzvah, the rabbi said, you know, from the bimah said," ""You know, that's the thing about Aline, she'll tell it like it is."" "I was like... (Nahnatchka)" "This is-- you were at a bar mitzvah?" "And then yesterday, somebody was introducing him for a panel and he's like," ""Aline's gonna tell you what to do, where to sit, what to wear."" "So, it turns out my brother at age seven, like, you know..." "Nailed it?" "Had-- had me pegged." "So, yeah." "What about you, Alan?" "My mom, because she likes to brag about me, will probably list all the activities I was doing." "Mm-hmm." "Extracurriculars club." ""Alan plays piano, violin, the guitar, bass, saxophone." ""He plays soccer, he plays tennis," "(Lacey)" "Rattling off your resume." "He's great at school."" "Yeah, you know, so, you know, I grew up in-- in Riverside, California," "I went to a lot of big public schools growing up." "And I actually am really grateful that I didn't get beat up when I was a kid, 'cause I was a really small kid," "I was" " I was the only" "Asian kid in one of my classes." "And I think one of the things that saved me was that I was really fast." "Uh-huh." "(laughter)" "So, I was good at sports when I was a kid, and was like, eight and nine." "And so, people wanted to pick me for their teams and stuff." "So, that really saved me." "That's critical for a boy... (overlapping chatter) ... man, that saved me, 'cause I would have beaten me up, man," "I would have" " I was weird." "Like, I was kinda weird." "You know, I worry about" "I have a son who's sens-- like, who's not into sports." "Yeah." "And I'm like... like, I worry about that," "I mean, because sports is some time for guys the equalizer." "Yeah, it really is, or you're a weirdo." "But it's changed a little bit, 'cause there's ways to be cool now that are Minecraft-based." "(laughter)" "Are there characters on television now or-- or historically that you identify with?" "Well, it's funny, you know, we were-- at-at different kinds of, uh, representation you see as a kid," "Rhoda was a big deal for me." "Rhoda Morgenstern was a big deal." "Just that she..." "Yeah." "...existed, and that they had sort of like a sassy" "Jewish broad on TV was-- it made a huge impression on me." "(Lacey)" "Huh, I love that one." "Yeah, definitely." "This is gonna sound real weird, but, um... when I was a little kid," "The Iron Sheik was a really big influence." "(laughter)" "(Alan)" "I like that." "He was a wrestler in the WWF and he was from Iran." "(Aline)" "Uh-huh?" "And his, like, shoes were the colors of the Iranian flag." "Uh-huh?" "And that was a big deal." "I mean, not to say, like," "I saw myself in The Iron Sheik." "But, um... our whole family would gather around the TV on Saturday and watch" "The Iron Sheik wrestle." "And he was the bad guy." "Uh-huh, uh-huh." "So, everyone's, like, booing him and like, cheering, like, whoever he's fighting." "And then, it was the opposite in our house." "I love that." "Um, I had the little, like, standy-- like, the stretch." "Uh-huh?" "Anyway." "It's random." "(Kenya)" "Kevin Arnold for me," ""The Wonder Years"." "(Aline)" "Yeah." "And that character," "I was like-- even though he was a different-- come from a different time period, it was from a different culture-- it was so much of every-- all those insecurities he was going through, everything..." "(Nahnatchka)" "That was such a good show." "(Lacey)" "Yeah, really good." "It was beyond a good show." "I'm about to show my age." "Rose Marie." "Mm-hmm." "Mary-- on "The Dick van Dyke Show"." "I was obsessed..." "So funny." "...with "The Dick van Dyke Show"." "I wanted to be in that room," "I wanted to do the typing." "Yeah." "I wanted to order a lunch," "I wanted to eat corned beef sandwiches." "(laughter)" "I wanted to dance and sing at all these great places, you know, in-- in Pennsylvania and New York." "Yes." "And just" " I loved  that show, and that's-- that's what I really connected with growing up." "I remember reading about that-- it's basically what you were saying, where all the stories came from the writers' lives, right?" "Yeah." "I think, like," "Garry Marshall, and he had a writing partner at the time." "(Aline)" "Jerry Belson." "Yeah." "'Cause I worked with" "Jerry Belson, who was amazing." "Oh, my God." "And he was-- he told me this story." "This is really not related to much, but it really has made me laugh." "So, they wrote a bunch of lists, like, comedy lists, 'cause they were young guys," "Garry and, um..." "And like freelancers, right?" "They were freelancers." "And so, they wrote-- one of the things they wrote was a list of things, like, just like comedy bits to submit for the show, and one of the things was list of things" "I only tried once." "(laughter)" "And one of them was carob." "Oh, that's funny." "That's hilarious." "That's really funny." "Well, thank you guys all for being here, it was a great conversation." "(group)" "Thank you."