"A psychic is manipulating and using subjective energy energy of the non-physical nature in order to achieve a non-effect." "Mentalists, magicians, these types of folks, they manipulate perception by distraction and some trickery in order to receive a desired effect or result." "But that's a real long jump from being a gifted psychic." "I'm not saying it's rubbish." "I'm just saying I've never seen it." "I'd be very happy to believe it if someone presented me with proof." "I wouldn't equate Patrick Jane's mental ability with psychic ability." "It's not a paranormal function." "When it comes to believers and skeptics, sheeps and goats basically you know, there's an old saying, for believers, no proof is necessary and for skeptics, no proof is possible." "I've never met a real psychic." "It truly does not exist." "There are ways scientifically to basically explain any bit of anything that can be considered to be quote-unquote, "psychic phenomenon."" "I'm a scientist." "I was trained in how you do the scientific method." "You do experiments, you replicate your experiment you replicate your data." "But this phenomena doesn't work like a machine." "When I meet someone who professes to be a psychic or professes to have some kind of paranormal ability my simple response inwardly oftentimes is "prove it."" "I tend to disbelieve a lot of what I hear because a substantial portion of what people learn about in this field is garbage." "I'd say, what, 98 percent of it." "Throw it out, forget it." "It's absolute..." "Absolutely worthless." "You get to the core of this, the real researchers, the real people to the real data, it's extraordinary." "But one thing we do know, if these things never occurred we wouldn't be here discussing it." "If they occur all the time and we could control them, we wouldn't be here discussing it." "So that means there's an aspect of the world we live in we know a little bit about." "And we have to ask ourselves, is it nature versus nurture?" "Is someone born in this environment that's accepting of it so then it's cultivated naturally?" "Or is it a genetic component?" "I think there might be a little bit of both." "The best analogy to me is we can all drive cars." "Maybe not as well as others, but we can all drive." "How many of us have the stamina the endurance, the hand-eye-foot coordination the reflexes to become a race driver?" "And psychic information is not logical, it's not rational." "It's not linear." "It's just an obtuse perception of information." "TAFF:" "The research I did at UCLA, the lab work part of it developed into a training program to see if we could take normal, healthy, emotionally stable people who haven't had any experiences, to their knowledge, and train it in them." "And going into that world and discerning information and making it objective, verifiable and factual." "We had thousands of people come to the program most had no results at all." "But there was a small percentage on the far end of the spectrum who were, like, athletes, they were stars." "What that means, why it is, God only knows." "It may be we're physiologically or neurologically different." "We're wired different." "And the nature of my ability is pretty simple." "I'm primarily visual." "I get information." "What's called clairvoyance." "Information comes at a very holistic fashion that resembles hearing, seeing, all these things." "But it's all internal versus sub..." "Versus external." "I know for myself and a few other people we're very sensitive to changes in the Earth's magnetic field." "Dramatically so." "I'm not actually using my eyes or using my ears or using my..." "You know, any of these..." "Or hands." "This feeling is not something that's tangible." "It's more of a sensation that I have to interpret." "TAFF:" "The people who are most adept at this, who responded the most quickly were the most, like, emotionally unstable." "Did you put a spell on Cody Elkins?" "I did." "I put a killing spell on him." "I've done the spell several times before but this is the first time it's worked." "ROURKE:" "Here's a caveat." "When you open the door, so to speak, you can't really close it." "Once you make yourself aware to this new aspect of yourself this new way of receiving information, you will never be the same." "MAN:" "Alison!" "TAFF:" "An example, which is a little more disturbing." "1975 I'm dreaming that I'm flying a 747." "It was a TWA and I've been a pilot for years so I know a little bit about aircraft." "And in the dream, we're on approach to South Africa." "And suddenly, the turbo fans cut out, the drone goes away." "We're dropping like a stone, the instruments are dark, we hit." "I fly out of bed, covered in perspiration." "And I remembered, "My God, a 747 has never gone down."" "I didn't know what day it was gonna happen what time it was gonna happen, what flight number." "So I could've called TWA, I could've called the FAA." "I can't do it because I don't know anything." "Three days later, the first 747 went down on approach to South Africa." "It was the TWA." "If you did that today, the FBI would be at your door in probably 20 minutes." "I'm a former supervisory special agent of the FBI for 27 years." "My main emphasis while I was with the FBI was the Violent Crime Program which entailed all of kidnappings throughout the southern California area." "Typically, I get involved with law enforcement issues in what's called an unofficial capacity." "I'm not able really to comment on some of the "official" relationships I have." "And all those "official" relationships are "unofficial."" "I think that the relationship between psychics and law enforcement is somewhat kind of kept in the back, so to speak." "The law enforcement, they wanna do their job they wanna go out there, investigate it, find the person who did, make the arrest." "I'm not reaching to say the preconception about a lot of psychics is they're nuts." "I make and sell Wicca healing powders on the Internet." "You should check out my website." "Nobody in law enforcement that I know of goes to the psychic first off." "The police asked me to get a psychic fix on him to see if I can get a sense of who this man is." "That's probably the last person they're gonna go to." " We are tools." "Psychics don't solve crimes." " They're not stable." "Cody deserved to die." "He was a bad person." "He stole and tortured and killed my cat." "Maybe that's what gives some of them the ability to do this, when they want." "You would use one when all of your other avenues have been exhausted." "And if you don't have anything else, why not?" "I've never read a case or seen a show where they actually did make anything other than the broadest possible connections to the realities of the case." "ROURKE:" "Because when we open up psychically, you know it's a doorway that everything can come through." "So you'll get things that are pertinent to the case and things that are maybe not so pertinent." "It's a technique of generalizing a technique of never quite being able to pin down what it is they're saying so that eventually they're gonna hit the right mark." "Yes, I'm feeling that Paul hasn't been a hundred percent honest with you." "He hasn't been happy." "I have yet to meet one that I think, in any way, is doing anything other than guessing and occasionally getting it right." "The blind squirrel eventually gets the nuts." "During my career in the FBI I did have occasion to work with different psychics." "Kidnappings tend to lend themselves more to that field than probably any other investigation with exception to maybe homicides." "They'd give us things to hold relevant to the crime." "Clothing, artifacts, a wallet, a piece of jewelry." "It's called psychometry." "It's a very powerful tool in discerning information." "Because we..." "Every living thing has an atmosphere." "You start describing details about the person like their families, their friends, mental problems, physical illnesses." "A mentalist can't do that." "But a psychic can." "ROURKE:" "So let's say that, you know, a murderer drops the weapon or a victim leaves a shoe or a bloodstained piece of jewelry and the psychic can use that." "For me, the more graphic something was, the more easily I was able to see it" "TAFF:" "I haven't done this work in a while because it's very depressing." "You see these horrible images in your head." "And if you're very sensitive to this, emotionally, it's best to just stay away." "We are like the planets in the universe." "We have our own electromagnetic field." "And in that field is stored information and any property that are on our person or that we hold or manipulate stores and can store that information." "And we provided graphic details of where the body was, the instrument of death description of the damage to the body and they found the person basically where we described." "Psychic evidence or evidences attached to a psychic really, it doesn't fall under that umbrella of evidence." "It's more used as an investigative tool." "I wouldn't walk into a courtroom solely on a psychic's information and try to get a search warrant or an arrest warrant." "I have to have corroborating evidence that's going to help me with that information." "These..." "The cases are intriguing, they're spectacular." "But you gotta walk sort of a very thin line to avoid getting people angry." "Those psychics who do that tend to be taking advantage of a very highly-charged emotional situation in small towns where they come in and say, "I can help."" "True demonic evil burns like fire." "It burns with a terrible, cold, dark flame." "I force myself to look into that flame." "And I see an image of the evildoer." "In homicides, kidnappings and a variety of cases police will withhold information." "And the really good reason for doing that is there are specific things that happen during a crime." "And only the person involved in that crime is gonna be aware of those things." "SONNENBERG:" "That's kind of used as a filter." "If anyone needs arresting, it's Kristina Frye." "She knew that Rosemary was in danger." "She knew where to find the car, the murder weapon." "Which means that she either does have supernatural powers or she was involved in the crime." "Filters out those who think they were there and it filters out people who believe they're psychics, who aren't." "On more than one occasion, the law enforcement thought me..." "We might have been part of the actual perpetration of the crime because we convey such specific details with regard to the location and the actual method of death and the mechanism by which the person was killed." "You knew that this murder was gonna happen?" "I didn't know." "Her husband knew." "I just passed the warning along to Rosemary." "Okay, got it." "By her own admission she's either a channel for the energy of the departed souls or she's involved in this murder." "You got a choice." "You can call Ghost Busters or we can take this lady downtown." "Well, if the psychic calls up and they've got detailed information that we have not given to anyone else, including family members there's only two things here." "Either, one, he's a good psychic and he really does do this legitimately and has information that could be of value and give us good leads or he's involved in the crime." "We had to actually provide alibis when they came to us." "You know, there's always the possibility it leaked out somewhere." "But you've also gotta consider that they may be a credible source." "They absolutely are very intense about that because in their heart of hearts, their soul of souls they know the information that they have is of value." "And so I'm not a disbeliever in the use of psychics or in the fact that there's people out there that maybe do see things and get information that is helpful for law enforcement." "There was another case where a young man had gone missing and he actually had some mental illness." "As I tried to connect with this missing young man I started feeling confused." "And things felt random, they felt out of place." "And to me, it almost seemed like the information they had was kind of a burden on them." "They felt like they had to come forward and give this information." "This had a happy ending, this case." "Because once I gave them the location of where I believed this person was this kid I had a link with, the police picked him up and there he was." "As far as psychics getting more involved in law enforcement work the more acceptance of it." "I think depending on the..." "How progressive a department is." "I have a friend that..." "Who was a law enforcement officer with a local police department and he became an FBI agent and he swears he had a case that the psychic came in, was dead to rights." "He told them where the person was, who did it, the whole thing." "And it turned out they were right." "So, you know, it happens." "I'm not a disbeliever." "We had a little time with a guy from the FBI." "I did ask him, I said:" ""Have you ever worked with psychics?" The first thing that Mark said was, "Yeah." "They always say the body is near water."" "Water rushing into the windows, tires underwater, resting on concrete." "If the information isn't accurate, if the information can't be verified as fact you're not providing psychic information." "Come on." "She simply did what you do so well." "With an air of confidence, she made an educated guess." "Where else would you dump a car around here?" "She's a good guesser." "Well, yes." "Over the last, let's say, close to half a century the attitude has become sort of jaundiced, it's kind of jaded because the media, generally, has a knee-jerk reaction to the paranormal." "And you're generally negative." "And unfortunately, like so many things with genuine talents the presence of scamsters serves to undermine those people who may genuinely have those beliefs." "I'd go out on the limb and say anyone who sits in this chair and says they're sitting at a restaurant and spirits come up and talk to them, you know, I think they're in trouble." "That's really not healthy." "[WOMAN CHANTING INCANTATION]" "They may be wonderful people but they're essentially tricksters." "One of the biggest comments made by people over the course of centuries regarding the paranormal is if you can see the future if you can sense things before they occur see through walls and through people why don't you make millions of dollars in the stock market or go to Vegas?" "It's like if you had superhero powers, would you really fight crime or would you use them for your own personal things, you know?" "This ability doesn't work like a machine." "And for everyone, it works differently." "It's not a conscious process." "For the most part, it's not that voluntary and it does what it wants to do." "Which doesn't relate to physical things." "Whatever this functioning is, however it's designed it is a function that is meant to serve others." "It is not meant to serve yourself." "It's far more complex than we ever thought it was." "I certainly want to believe in the idea of paranormal abilities and, you know, people who have paranormal beliefs or talents." "My mum actually has a very unnerving talent of dreaming about people close to us dying and then they die." "So I've always said to her, "If you ever have a dream about me just don't mention it."" "I think that perhaps there are people who have abilities." "I think that the majority of people who have signs on their lawns and who are advertising for it probably don't." "So they either really genuinely believe what they're doing is real they fool themselves to believing they're real or they're even more evil than I believe they are in the first place." "I've never truly seen a psychic that couldn't state anything more than the obvious." "So I'm a skeptic." "There's also another angle which is people will always believe what they want to believe." "We did an episode called "Seeing Red" where Jane is confronted with a woman who purports to be a real psychic and is very, very good at it." "I think you act assured and arrogant." "But inside, you are troubled with deep guilt and self-Loathing." "A recent trauma in your past perhaps." "And I love the idea that occasionally something happens where you doubt your own commitment to that decision." "The episode ends with her giving him an insight into what happened to his family." " I talked to your wife." " Oh, hang on." "This is..." "That he desperately wants to believe is true." "Your wife wants me to tell you that your daughter never woke up." "She didn't know what happened." "She wasn't scared." "Not even for a second." "I think he wants to believe that they didn't suffer, didn't go through these things." "There's a beautiful moment at the end where you're inside Jane's head." "Because she has touched on the one sacred thing in his life and that's his family." "And his competitive nature towards psychics and his sort of insecurities and how he felt threatened." "But my narcissism will allow me to accept something if it has impact or bearing on me individually." "It's a constant question that comes up thematically, like, is he or isn't he?" "And I think it's really interesting." "And it really makes you think, what is the nature of the human condition?" "I now there's things out there that's way beyond my understanding." "So I'm willing to keep that 1 percent open to, you know, other possibilities." "And we say there's the possibility that there are people with these gifts on the other side, there's the possibility that there are people who are very good at guesswork." "I don't doubt that maybe there is someone out there who can do those sort of things." "But what the end of the show demonstrates is that which we most devoutly wish to be real becomes real." "Subripped by CLT-Team"