"th the Hollywood Reporter"..." "I wanna be scared ( bleep ) every day I wake up for work." "I think you want your writers' room to somehow reflect your show so that the conversations that are happening in the writers' room can translate more easily to screen." "Are there African-American writers on your show?" "There's one writer of color, but he's not African-American." "Is there any African-American writers on your show?" " There are not." " It's repulsive is what it is." "To this day, I have no idea how many people have watched the show on Netflix." "All they say is that, "Well, we're doing well, and we'd like another season."" "And that's really all I need to know." " Infuriating." " I am spoiled for life." "Don't ever get off that island." "( laughter )" "Stacey:" "We'll hear from theshowrunnersbehind2015's most buzzed-about dramas." "Sarah Treem, "The Affair,"" "Michelle King, "The Good Wife,"" "Beau Willimon, "House of Cards,"" "Damon Lindelof, "The Leftovers,"" "Alex Gansa, "Homeland,"" "Lee Daniels, "Empire."" "Welcome to "Close Up with the Hollywood Reporter."" "I'm Awards Editor Stacey Wilson." "And I'm Lacey Rose, Television Editor." "Stacey:" "Let's get right into it withthepowerplayers behind the year's most compelling dramas." "This table is full of veteran showrunners." "Lee is coming off his first season on "Empire,"" "which hit the zeitgeist in a major way, something many of you have a lot of experience with, whether it was you, Alex, with "Homeland", or Damon with "Lost."" "What would be the advice that you would give him about sustaining it?" "You have to, you know, submit to the process, I guess." "You know, just, you know, put your head down and set off on a course, and hope that you end up at a better or a similar place." "I don't know, Damon, what would you say?" "Certainly at the time that it happened to us, which was around 2004, it was more at the dawn of social media." "Twitter didn't even exist yet." "And so it was this amazing thing, the success of the show, but the zeitgeist itself became immensely distracting and we took our eye off the ball at times." "You know, I said yes to everything." " Press-wise?" " Oh, everything." "I mean, everything." "Like, if your mom wanted me to come over, it would be, "Yes, when does she want me there?"" "Damon, do you say no now?" "No." "I think it's easier now." "Certainly, you know, I mean those kinds of shows and "Empire" and "Homeland" and "House of Cards"" "burn very, very, very, very, very bright." "It's not about sustaining them." "It's just about continuing to generate great material." "But I think that when you go from," ""My show isn't on the air," and within two weeks, it's on the cover of magazines and everybody is watching it and everybody is into it, and your actors are hosting "Saturday Night Live,"" "it happens so immensely fast, it's hard to hold on." "But that's the other thing that I'd say, which flies in the face of what I said prior to this, which is you should enjoy it as well." "I don't think I had as much fun." "When I was on the ride, I was terrified." "You look like you're having fun." "A party." "I am." "But no, no, I'm very nervous." "I get very nervous, especially as we approach the season two." "You know, you just" "You have to live up to Season one, and I think that that's-- that's scary." "It's very scary." "The internet has destroyed the musician's ability to make money because our work is downloaded for free online." "And now it's impossible for the disenfranchised kids growing up in the projects to overcome poverty the way that I did." "We are going to change all of that." "I am proud to announce that Empire Entertainment has filed to become a publicly traded company on the New York Stock Exchange." "How are the rest of you coping with those expectations from viewers, from fans, from networks as you continue to push through your seasons?" "How about you, Sarah?" "You're deep into season two yourself right now." "I don't know." "I mean, I love season two." "For me, I felt like season one was like the rough draft because you don't-- you just don't know." "You know, you don't know the characters very well." "You don't know the world that well." "You don't know if it's gonna work." "You have a sense of what you think is supposed to be like the themes and the stakes of your show, but you don't know, you know." "And so you figure it out as it goes, and you see it on the screen and you think," ""Oh, that really worked and that really didn't."" "And then you get to the end of the season, and you're like," ""Oh, okay, good, now I've-- like, now I'm ready to start the season,"" "you know, but it's the end of season one." " Cole!" " What?" " Don't do that." " Why?" "Because you're scaring me, that's why!" " I'm scaring you?" " Yes." "I'm scaring you?" "I've done every ( bleep ) thing you've asked me, Alison." "I read all of the books." "We went to see the therapist." "I went to see a ( bleep ) priest!" " I know, I know!" " I'm trying!" "I wake up every morning with his face in my mind, too." "You're not the only one who lost a child here!" "I know, please." "I like season two." "I like coming back with, like, given circumstances and stakes." "I like knowing the characters really intimately." "You know, our world is much more complex this season." "For me, season one was such a shock, actually, in terms of how well it did that I'm just glad we got renewed." "I'd be like, "Yeah, if season two does well, great, you know, icing on the cake, and if it doesn't"" "Well, I shouldn't say that." "It's gonna be great." "Michelle, how about you on that front?" "Well, we're starting season seven." "So I mean, the pressure is a little bit different in that it's just trying to remember, A, what have we done?" "And trying not to repeat." "That's a big deal." "We've lost some favorite characters, so it's trying to make sure we honor them." "That's a bit of a pressure and" "What does that mean?" "If they're leaving, you want to make sure that you pay deference to how much the audience liked the character." "So you keep the character sort of alive in the" "Or you exit them in a way that they deserve." "And then moving forward, you keep the world rich enough" " that the loss isn't felt." " Right." "I would say that's the pressure of season seven for us." " Season seven." " Yeah." "You're richer than God." "Yeah." "That's a lot of skeletons." " You ever seen "The Matrix"?" " Yes." "Remember when they show Keanu a red pill and a blue one?" "And if he takes the red pill, he'll keep going down the rabbit hole?" " Yeah." " This is the red pill." "What's the blue pill?" "You tell us you don't want to run." "Let's go." "We've seen this wave of very successful shows that have diverse casts, whether it's "Blackish"" "or it's "Empire."" "Stacey:" "And how much pressure doallof youfeelnow to populate your rooms with diverse writers and also the pressure to cast actors who aren't white?" "What's very interesting, and this is one of those great stories that no one believes but is true nonetheless, which is we finished writing the first season of "The Leftovers"" "sometime around September of last year and started talking about the new season in October." "And one of the big ideas was that we were gonna to introduce a black family, an African-American family, and we're gonna do it in Texas." "And there was gonna be a complete shift away from the characters that we had grown to know and love, and the question becomes why?" "Like, why are you doing that?" "And then you-- the second season would be about integrating the ideas from the first season into the sort of new spectrum." "I mean, HBO, you know, loved the idea, and we were super excited about it, and then "Empire" happened, and then suddenly, it almost made us cut bait on the idea because it felt like, "Oh, now we're just" "basically jumping on the bandwagon."" "It's time." "Everybody's ready to feel better." "Not the Remnant." "At last, the Chief speaks." "I would have said something sooner, but I was so riveted." "So we're gonna do this again?" "The whole town, the same place at the same time on the anniversary." ""The Leftovers" was built in a very white sort of suburban enclave and had what I would affectionately refer to as "white people problems."" "We had some excellent actors, excellent black actors on the show in the first season, but I wouldn't describe them as central in the way that these new characters are going to be." "But ultimately, once you start talking about that, once you start kind of saying like," ""Oh, but people are gonna think this."" "And you're like, "But we were excited about it because it was best for the story."" "But that idea of suddenly saying like, "Oh, we're now basically gonna populate, you know, all of these shows with actors of color just because that's what people want to see." "That's what's gonna make them more successful."" "It might not necessarily make them more authentic." "So what did you end up doing with the storyline?" "I'm not telling." "No, we're doing it." "The idea of "black," it does offend me because if I wanted to do a musical and if it were a runaway hit that involved nothing but drag queens, and all of a sudden we start talking," ""Why can't we have more transgender people?"" "I mean, it just-- it bothers me deeply, you know." "It's incumbent upon us to represent the world as it is, and the world is diverse." "I'm not actively sitting down saying we have to hire more" "The world's been diverse for a long time, but a show like "Empire" took a long time." "But that's to the credit of "Empire,"" "which is a fantastic show, you know?" "It's alive, in a way." "I find that the diversity issue also is kind of worse behind the camera." "Yeah." "That's so beautiful." "I'll tell you, nothing is more beautiful now than to go into this room, to the writer's room of "Empire."" "I don't know what gives me more pleasure, watching my story unfold, or going in and watching a room full of black people talking for me and saying words that-- and writing words that black people" "I hate white people writing for black people." "It's so offensive." "And so it's beautiful." "It's a beautiful thing, and I mean" "So I'm just curious when you went out to" "Yes, it's all about reverse racism, yes." "( laughter )" "And I'm gonna keep it 100 with you." "Yes, when we go out, we look specifically for African-American voices, too." "Right, 'cause when we put the room of "The Affair" together, we specifically looked for half men and half women." "That makes sense to me that you would look for all African-American voices on an all African-American show." "I mean, I think to me, what's important is" "Not all African-American." "It's not all African-American." "But I think because you have to have that voice in." "You have to have that gay voice." "And you have to have that woman voice in." "Yeah, I think you want your writers' room to somehow reflect your show so that the conversations that are happening in the writers' room can translate more easily to screen." "Are there African-American writers on your show?" "There's one writer of color, but he's not African-American." "Is there any African-American writers on your show?" " There are not." " How about yours?" " Yeah." " How many?" "Last season there were two, but one of them went off to create her own pilot." "Good." "How many on your show?" " I'm just curious." " Hold on, I wanna finish answering" " How many women do you have?" " We have three-- four." " Four women." " Yeah, how many Asian-Americans do you have?" "We have zero African-Americans in our writers' room of six." "I'm not here to point a finger." "I'm not, I'm just curious." "But there's so many different ways to discuss or talk about or measure diversity." "Not all stories are going to tackle the entire breadth of the diversity of the world." "A lot of times a story is about picking and choosing a sliver of the world." "And if you're telling the truth about your given silver, you know, however narrow or wide it is, and you're brutally honest, then you're contributing to the overall diversity of our collective story." "Michelle, what were you gonna say?" "No, I was just gonna say we have seven writers." "Two of them were African-American women, and one of them said, "I've never been in a room where there's another African-American woman."" " Wow." " It was a telling remark." "It's repulsive is what it is." "And there's no-- it's inexcusable is what it is." " But do you think" " And I'm really happy that" "I'm really, really happy that if anything-- forget the success of "Empire."" "I mean, it's great that we have that." "What is important is that people of color know that they are wanted." "'Cause y'all done told me that we ain't wanted." "Well, you know, it's definitely an industry problem." "I mean, if you look at the demographics of the WGA, it's vastly white and very disproportionally male." "I happen to be a member of the WGA Council, WGA East." "You know, this is an issue that we are consistently trying to address because we don't want an industry or a guild that's not reflective of society." "So things that, you know, we're trying to do-- get a tax credit for writers rooms' in New York that will be diversity-based." "Meaning that you don't get a tax credit if you set up a room in New York unless you are employing female writers or writers of color." "That's the only way." "You have to-- because a lot of this-- you know, these sort of changes have to, unfortunately, be incentivized by money." "Damon:" "For what it's worth, ifI 'mstaffingashow," "I'm gonna get sent 40 scripts, so I got a stack of scripts." "And essentially, the pool that I'm being told that I should be picking from is majority a white male pool." "Then if you basically walk down the corridors of William Morris, Endeavor, CAA, UTA, you are not going to see a lot of black agents, and they're the ones who were basically sending me those scripts, aside from the fact" "that we have a huge race problem in the United States." "The most significant impact that we can have is to empower people who don't look like us, whether they're writers or producers or directors, so that they can make hiring decisions." "'Cause basically all the writers who are now on "Empire,"" "African-American writers are now gonna learn, and they're gonna have an opportunity to go and create" "And it's so beautiful." "Let me tell you something." "It's so beautiful to walk in that room." "'Cause I thought I was the only one." "The Spike Lees, the John Singletons, you know that there are those, but you really believe that you are the only one until you see these submissions of incredible writers." " So, yeah, I'm happy." " Hey, Micelle, did you have only lawyers on your staff?" "( laughter )" "Take a look at these BBQ trophies:" "Best Cracked Pepper Sauce..." "Most Ribs Eaten While Calf Roping..." "Yep, greatness deserves recognition." "You got any trophies, Cowboy?" "♪ Whoomp there it is ♪" "Uh, yeah..." "Well, uh, well there's this one." "Best Insurance Mobile App?" "Yeah, two years in a row." "Well I'll be..." "Does that thing just follow you around?" "Like a little puppy!" "The award-winning GEICO app." "Download it today." "What are we missing here, Janet?" "Because with Citrusy Peel Shine," "I might as well be spraying orange juice on...grape juice." "Get serious, get a cleaner with bleach in it." "That's right..." "I'll get it." "Clorox Means Clean." "Welcome back to "Close Up with the Hollywood Reporter."" "We're talking with the game changers behind 2015's standout dramas." "All of your shows deal with difficult subject matter in one way or another-- racism, infidelity, social injustice, terrorism." "Is there a reaction that you've gotten to your show that most surprised you or that you didn't expect?" "The nation of Islam." "My dad was killed by some people from the nation of Islam." "And so I did a moment, just a moment." "What was the moment specifically?" "Cookie putting on her head wrap to going in and talking to the sister from the nation of Islam." "And it was something that was almost like "pass the butter" for me and something that was just so like, "Wow, so surprising."" "And how did they translate their reaction to you?" "Did they write a letter?" " They liked it." "They liked it." "Many people liked it." " Oh, they liked it." "It was surprising to me that the" " So it was a positive reaction." " It was a very positive reaction." "How about you, Michelle?" "We had one that was-- it touched on gay marriage." "We had one that touched on abortion." "Even characters that might not have the same opinions that we do, we really try very carefully to give them the respect of giving them the smartest arguments that are out there for them." "So I think that balance has been appreciated." "And, Sarah, I know you've had a lot of feedback on infidelity in "The Affair."" "What has surprised you most about the vitriol, I guess, on both sides?" "Yeah, you know, I've said this before." "I was shocked by how personally people take the idea of infidelity." "Like, I thought we were making a show about two perspectives and how interesting that was." "I thought this was gonna be a conversation that's going to be like, "Oh, isn't that interesting?" "men and women, they see things differently."" ""They're having an affair!"" "Yeah, I mean, that was the title of the show." "I didn't think that part was gonna be a surprise." "So, yeah, I find that shocking, and in retrospect," "I realize that that was probably pretty naive of me." "And it's been kind of a wide array of demographics, too, with these opinions, it sounded like you were surprised by." "Yeah." "I mean, just that everybody have the same opinion." "Was it just a puritanical response where people just" " No, it was" " Is it the same opinion?" "What people were responding to-- like they were so angry at the characters, you know, especially Noah's character." "Like, how can a man with four children cheat on his wife?" "I have a whole interesting theory." "I think that there's something about the expectations that we have in our culture specifically of a male hero." "We're sort of comfortable at this point with the idea of an antihero, like somebody who, like, kind of purely goes against the cultural norm, or somebody who's subverting all expectations." "And then we have this idea of a hero, somebody who always does the right thing, but in terms of a complex, flawed man in between," "I just think people were really wrestling with it." "You know, they didn't know from one instance to another if they liked him, if they could trust him, if they thought that his instincts were pure, if they thought that he was diabolical, you know, if they thought he was weak." "Like, it was just deeply unsettling." "What upsets me is that there are many blacks that don't like how I'm representing African-Americans right now." "And I'm like, "Well, I don't know." "This is the world that I know." "This is a real world that is as honest as I can be."" "Like, my mom said to me prior to "Empire,"" "prior to even "Butler," says, "Can't you do something" "Can't you do movies like Tyler Perry?" " Can't Ms. Jones--"" " My mom says that to me, too." ""Ms. Jones going to church-- something happen to you." "Why are you doing movies about pedophilia and stuff?"" "I said, "These are issues that are important to me."" "So I did "The Butler" and shut her up." " ( laughter )" " There you go." "She's just watching "The Butler" on repeat." "Shut Ms. Jones up." "If this table were populated by your network executives, what would they say about you and your style?" "I'm gonna start with Alex on that one." "You know the interesting thing about relationships with your network is they just undergo such a transformation over the course of the time that you spend working together." "I mean, you know, when "Homeland" started with the first show that David Nevins picked up for Showtime, to say that there was some anxiety attendant on that first season would be an understatement, to say the least, and there were deep," "deep disagreements about so many things." "It's such an interesting thing that you get to a certain point in your career and you're saying," ""Look, I'm either gonna fail or succeed on my own terms,"" "which I think is one of the reasons why these networks like to hire people that haven't been around for a long time." "A lot of us have been through this so many times, and you have compromised and made mistakes." "And your failure hasn't been on your own terms." "It's been on somebody else's terms." "So, you know, at the beginning," "I think we were wondering whether it was gonna work." "He's a strong-headed guy, and I'm a strong-headed guy, but, look, we're five years into the relationship, and it's very sweet between us." "( laughter )" "I promised Mira I was bringing you home." "You think I want to go home?" "You said this wouldn't happen." " You promised me no exchange." " I couldn't let you die." "It wasn't up to you." "It wasn't your call." "You think I can live with this?" "I can't even look at it." "Saul, listen to me" "No, you listen." "Do not give them those prisoners." "Do not give them one prisoner." "Just go." "Go." " I'm not leaving without you." " Then we both die here." "The irony is that when I went in to pitch "The Affair,"" "I heard a lot about "Homeland."" "You know, I feel like once this show gets established on a network, then it becomes the network's sort of, like, "This is how you do it."" "So I was-- you know, it was like, well" "I don't think it was to the extent of," ""This is what Alex Gansa would do with your third episode,"" "But, like, it was this kind of thing," ""Well, you know, 'Homeland'--"" ""The Affair" and "Homeland" have so much in common." " "Follow the 'Homeland' model."" " I understand that "Homeland"" "has been an incredibly successful show for this network, but it's a slightly different storytelling expectation." "But I did think that once the network has married, or whatever, then I do think that they get behind it" " with like such a" " It gets easier." "Michelle, what would CBS say about your" "I don't know what they would say, but what's curious about the relationship with a network is unlike a feature film, it's not like," ""Okay, you're together for three months and then you're split."" "In success, you're with each other, what, 10, 12 years, and you're talking several times a week." "So you can fight with them, but you have to fight fair." "And you have to be completely honest with them because you might be having a screaming fight at 10:00 in the morning, and inevitably, at 2:00 in the afternoon, you will have to call back" "on a different subject, and you have to work together." "So there has to be that honesty in the relationship of being able to trust each other of," ""Okay, I can say to you what needs to be said, but if we can't trust each other, then we can't work together, and we've got to work together."" "What's interesting is we all inherited infrastructures." "You know, executives already existed." "I'm very curious for Beau what it was like to be the first, literally, the first show out of the gate when the executive structure is figuring out at the same time you're figuring your show out." "I mean, was it hands-off or was it hands all the way on?" "When we sat down with Netflix, all it was, was Ted Sarandos and Cindy Holland, that's it, and I walked in that meeting, and they're like, "Who's this 12-year-old boy who can't grow a beard?"" "They said, "Beau, you're never gonna be capable of growing a full beard." "You might as well just shave that scruff."" "No, so we sat down." "What was immediately clear was that they were getting into the original-content game in a big way." "They were willing to make a big commitment, and they placed a huge amount of faith in us." "Now, granted, we had David Fincher and Kevin Spacey and Robin Wright and David's producing partners" "Eric Roth and Josh Donen, so it was a pretty all-star team, and they responded well to the script." "But they'd said from the get-go, "We want you to make the show that you want to make, and we will support you 100% financially and creatively, and get it out into the world," period." "And they have kept their word on that." "I wish, you know, I had-- I don't actually wish this." "It'd to be more fun and entertaining if I had lots of juicy tales of conflict and screaming matches." " You do not wish that." " No, no, I'm saying for the sake of the "Hollywood Reporter" folks who would like more juicy material for this." "Funny, that was our next question, in fact." "But it just hasn't been the case." "I mean, that's not to say they said," ""Go off and make your show, and let us know when you're finished with the season."" "We're constantly in contact, but the basic covenant that was made that," ""We are investing in people's creativity." "If we do that, that will lead to a good product,"" "they have stuck to." "Man:" "The programs that you want toscalebackordismantle are the bedrock of the American dream." "You work hard, you pay your taxes" "No, I'm sorry, they were the bedrock of the American dream, but they're not anymore, certainly not for the ten million people who are out of work." "But practically speaking, a thousand special interests, organized labor, opposition in both parties." "Now, we can do a version of what you're proposing." "I don't want a version." "I want a vision." "At the beginning of each season," "I tell them what we have in mind." "I'm interested in their feedback." "They're looking at scripts, they're looking at dailies and edits, but there's never been a conversation once where I got a corporate dictate where they said, "You must do this,"" "or, "You must change that," and to this day, I have no idea how many people have watched the show on Netflix." "They've never given me any data whatsoever." "All they say is that, "Well, we're doing well, and we'd like another season."" "And that's really all I need to know." " That's infuriating." " I am spoiled for life." " Don't ever get off that island." " ( laughter)" "What's amazing is how they do it because you're sort of like," ""What are the numbers, Netflix?"" "And they're like, "We're not gonna divulge that."" "Like, "We're not gonna tell you how big they are."" "And, you know, there's this sort of sense of like," ""God, they've gotta just be extraordinary, like"" "Like, they don't have a number for how many people watch "House of Cards"?" "They're just basically like-- what they say is," ""Those numbers are completely and totally irrelevant to us 'cause we're on a subscription model."" "And I go, "Well, HBO is on a subscription model, and those numbers are still relevant to me."" "But that idea of just saying, like," ""We're changing the standard by which something is successful,"" "I think is amazing, and I do feel that's a great idea for creativity." "But I think that standard has been" "I mean, that started to shift well before Netflix got into the game, what makes for a successful television show." "And as soon as you have subscriber-based cable channels, sometimes it was how much a show is in the zeitgeist or how much attention it was drawing to the network, how much news it was getting which might have been" "disproportionate to the actual viewership." "There is a value to certain shows that may not have broadcast-network numbers, but they are satisfying a niche within that subscribership that is underserved elsewhere." "So they become loyal to a network or a brand because this is where they go to get the thing that they can't get anywhere else." "It's interesting, I think there are a lot of different metrics on which to gauge success now, and all that really matters is that the people that are paying the bills want another season for whatever reasons." " Yeah." " Lee:" "Fox has been incredible." "They gave me one note, one major note." " What was it?" " To take someone out of the series that I really had a problem with." " But" " You mean you had a problem with the person personally, not the character?" "No, with the-- I didn't-- there was a character that I wrote into the original series pilot, that was Hakeem's love interest, a mother figure, Macy Gray, and it was just too much." "There was a, "Whoa, this is just--"" "and there was a love scene, and they said," ""This is too much," but other than that, we were on the same page." "They know what they don't know, which is great 'cause they let me do my thing." "And, Michelle, you talked about you've had those tough discussions." "What are the issues that you have had to deal with with the network on a disagreement level?" "You know what?" "The disagreements typically come about in the world of standards, standards and legal stuff." "What's the craziest one?" "Who can remember?" "But it's" "That's a political answer." "Come on." "Come on, that's not fair." "You know what?" "I do remember." "The biggest fight we had was about a painting in the background of a scene that was an abstract painting that they didn't want us to show because they felt that there were breasts." " Wow, wow, wow." " And it was abstract." "I mean, they were circles." "And so I do recall, you know" " Did you fight?" " Oh, yeah, 'cause that's fun." "( laughter )" " Now it's a can of Diet Coke?" " Who won?" "I know I'm supposed to have that answer and I actually-- it's several seasons ago and so many arguments ago, and I actually don't recall who won." "You just know you fought, and that's all that matters." "All I know is that and the painting is somewhere in the production office." "GIVE IT TO ME I'M WORTH IT." "BABY I'M WORTH IT." "UH HUH I'M WORTH IT." "GIMME GIMME I'M WORTH IT." "GIVE IT TO ME I'M WORTH IT." "BABY I'M WORTH IT." "Is struggling with acne, forcing you to double your latte?" "Alter your wardrobe?" "Stop hiding your acne." "And start fighting it with..." "FDA approved Onexton." "Prescription Onexton has two medicines that fight acne." "Onexton treats whiteheads, blackheads and pimples." "Don't use Onexton if you have Crohn's disease or colitis" "(inflammation of the colon) or had colitis or severe diarrhea with past antibiotic use." "Stop use if you develop severe watery or bloody diarrhea or severe abdominal cramps, as these may be fatal." "Do not use if allergic to clindamycin, benzoyl peroxide, lincomycin or any of the ingredients in Onexton." "Stop use and call your doctor if you have an allergic reaction, as this can be serious." "The most common side effect is skin irritation, especially if used with other acne products." "Stop use and call your doctor if you have a rash or very red, burning, itchy or swollen skin." "Limit your time in the sun." "Avoid tanning beds and sun lamps." "So stop hiding and start fighting your acne, with Onexton." "Talk to your dermatologist today." "I heard I could call Angie's List if" "I needed work done around my house at a fair price." "Sure can." "So I could get a faulty light switch fixed?" "Yup!" "Or make a backyard pizza oven?" "Oh Yeah." "I can almost taste it now." "Tastes like victory." "And pepperoni..." "Welcome back to "Close Up with the Hollywood Reporter."" "We're getting the inside scoop from TV's hottest drama showrunners." "Did any of you have a particularly embarrassing moment this year on your show?" "This is embarrassing/proudest moment of my life." "This past season, Pussy Riot was on the show." "We decided that we were gonna shoot a punk video." "We got, like, 300 people, and it was insane." "There's Pussy Riot there dancing, stomping on top of a car, and they said," ""You must be in video," and I go, "No, no, no."" "They said, "You must, you must," and then I thought," ""Well, when am I ever gonna get the chance again?"" "Never, so I took off my shirt and danced my ass off." "The guy dancing between them in the blue ski mask, that's me." "That's beautiful, dude." "That's, that's boss." "What are we missing here, Janet?" "Because with Citrusy Peel Shine," "I might as well be spraying orange juice on...grape juice." "Get serious, get a cleaner with bleach in it." "That's right..." "I'll get it." "Clorox Means Clean." "♪♪" "♪♪" "♪♪" "♪♪" "You can't put two in one." "At Intel, they make technology that lets a device be a laptop and a tablet, so you can put two in one." "No, you can't." "Can." "Can't." "Can." "Upgrade to a 2in1 with Intel." "♪♪" "Welcome back to "Close Up with the Hollywood Reporter."" "We're sitting down with the creative minds behind TV's hottest dramas." "At this point in your careers, how do you handle criticism of your writing?" "I don't read reviews, not just of my own show, but of anyone's show of anything." "I'm much more interested in what my peers have to say." "I'm curious what people think about things." "You know, I'd much rather turn to Sarah and say," ""Have you seen the show?" "What do you think about it?" "Let's talk about it,"" "than read a stranger's review of it." "Can the rest of you really tune out all the criticism?" "Damon:" "Oh, no, Ilistento allofit." "I'm, you know, putting my stuff out there." "I can feel that people are talking about it, and so saying to me, "Okay, in that room right over there, there are 100 people that are talking in hushed whispers about your work, and do you wanna know what they're saying?"" "I just do not have the wherewithal." "You know, not even that I'm tempted on a gossip level." "I need-- I need to know." "Do you feel like it then goes and influences how you write?" "Are you writing towards criticism" "I guess what I'm asking, like, do you have a sense of a sweet spot for the critical response?" "I've always found that if I disagree with the criticism, it doesn't change anything." "So it's sort of like-- in the case of "Leftovers,"" "for example, very rarely am I surprised by somebody saying something that I haven't already experienced in the editing room, or I'm like, "Oh, we ( bleep ) nailed it,"" "and then it doesn't land." "Sometimes I'm a little bit perplexed by something, but then you put it out in the world, and traditionally-- and this isn't me saying like," "I'm the greatest critic in the world or I'm always right, but, you know, the zeitgeist agrees with sort of my general opinion about things." "I think that there's a difference between, like, the critical response and the zeitgeist response." "What is it?" "What is the difference?" "I think the zeitgeist is responding with, like, a certain level of passion and instinct." "And sometimes I think that the critical response is responding with a kind of self-awareness." "It's just as much, I think, about the person who's giving the criticism as it is about the product itself." "The zeitgeist I feel like is more of just a passion response." "Well, I think obviously where it gets very blurry is when the critic/fan, you know, relationship starts to blur, and critics who basically consider themselves to be fans of your work then begin to behave like fans," "which is not the same as being necessarily a critic." "The ones who like it, they go deep." "And so they're no longer allowed to critically assess whether or not you killed off a character in the right way." "They can't separate that from their feelings." "You know, I made the mistake once, particularly as it pertained to the ending of "Lost", of saying to certain critics, "Well, you're not fans if you're ( bleep ) all over my show."" "And several of them came forward and said," ""That's part of being a fan."" "And I was like, oh, yeah, like, I will literally go to New York Jets' games and boo." "And I lo-- they're my team." "The thing is that I wait until the end of the season before I do it, and because I find that the immediacy of people's opinions these days is crazy." "I mean, they are down on you for an episode, and they don't realize that most of us are telling these serialized dramas." "That's why I find that grading thing strange now." "You wouldn't grade chapters of a book." "Dickens, like, chapter four of, you know" ""It wasn't my favorite."" "I've never understood the idea of a reviewer because they don't see the world through my eyes." "And so I always get hurt reading them because they don't see what I see, and they don't-- they haven't lived the experience that I've experienced, so they don't understand it." "So I think they're full of ( bleep )." "How do you manage it, though?" "You're hurt, and then what?" "It's like stabbing me." "You know what it feels like." "You've read it." "That's why you don't read." "It's like taking a knife and stabbing you in the heart over and over." "And so I've learned to protect myself by not reading them." "If my publicist says, "You really have to read this."" "I'll read it, and I'll find the one sentence that ( bleep ) me up, and say, yeah, you know..." "We have a different thing, too, in the sense that the whole season comes out one day." "So these reviewers have to watch 13 hours very quickly to get their reviews out, and I sympathize with that." "But I mean, you know, Season three, for instance, we want to go in a different direction." "We wanted to open up the story, take a more emotional approach, less political machinations, and also see the Underwoods stumble and fall, really feel the pressures of the presidency." "By design, that was gonna be fundamentally more unsatisfying than the victory after victory that they experienced during the first two seasons." "And I knew that there would be a contingent of the audience and probably the critics who would not like that, but it was a necessary thing in order to continue the story." "I mean, I don't think the show really is complete until it's complete, and yet because of the way television's made and there's only so many episodes you can make in a year, you are releasing these seasons." "So they are kind of in and of themselves, but they're part of something bigger, and I think that's what makes them maybe more difficult to review than a book where you read it beginning to end," "or a movie where, two hours later, that's all there is." "What I find peculiar is when they move off of the show and into the personal." ""What were Robert and Michelle thinking?"" "It's like, "That was the week our water heater went out, and I know I was thinking about how are we gonna take hot showers?"" "It's just this misunderstanding of like," ""Okay, we're people with lives." "And, yes, there's a show that we help produce,"" "but it all gets mushed together, and that's when it gets strange for me." "What was your favorite scene that you guys have written for your show this year, the one that was the most gratifying?" "Or conversely the one that was the most difficult to write?" "For me, it was the broom scene." "It could be considered as child abuse, abusive, you know." "But there's some comedy to it, too." "There's a fine line of comedy, drama, and feeling for Cookie because her son had disrespected her." "How about you guys?" "I was looking forward to writing a scene where Alison says what happened to her son for a long time because I feel like it was a moment that we were sort of leaning to, and, God," "Ruth gives such an amazing performance." "And when she went to shoot it, actually, she asked for-- she's very smart-- she asked for no notes." "She wanted nobody to interfere with her for the first couple takes 'cause she just wants to get it out, and then, you know, she's a genius." "But I really liked writing the scene where Helen asks Noah to come home even after he's left and put her through everything." "'Cause I felt that that scene was so honest." "You know, it hit me like, "I thought you hated me." "I thought you wanted a divorce."" "And she's like, "I don't want a divorce, you ( bleep )" "I just want you back," and I thought that that scene really sort of pointed to what happens in a relationship after a certain amount of time," "20 years of marriage, wherever, where it's like you forgive people so much." "You have to in order to stay with them for your whole life." "I mean, things that you never thought you'd say "okay" to you have to say "okay" to or you have to leave them." "You know, and the cost of leaving is so high that I feel like that scene was, for me, it was a nice refutation of like the expectations of romantic love and marriage, and what you think you're signing up for," "and then where you find yourself." "I thought Maura just knocked that one" " out of that park, too." " Stacey:" "Alex, how about you?" "You had a lot of tough scenes in "Homeland" this season." "Carrie having the moment with her baby in the bath, which was a scene without any dialogue at all." "And actually that scene was sort of written in the editing room because there were so many questions to ask." "Is she really drowning her baby?" "Is she just considering drowning her baby?" "How are we going to play the scene so that, you know, not to make it exploitative, but to make it, you know, a thought that might occur to somebody?" "Did you get a lot of notes on that scene?" "The first draft of the scene, which is the first time I saw it, the camera was the baby's point of view." "The camera went underwater and stayed underwater for 15 seconds, and so you were shooting up through the water at Claire, and I was like," ""That's not gonna work," And the problem was that that was the best take of Claire." "So we must have been in the editing room for four days trying to make that work, just to get the rhythm of it right, and ultimately, what we wind up doing was we just reversed the film," "so you're actually watching Claire's expression twice." "But it's just enough to make it feel like she actually seriously thought about it." "And that was a big one." "I mean, the hysterical thing was, of course, is that in the previous episode," "Carrie Mathison had killed 40 people at a wedding." "Nobody even blinked an eye, but she thought in her mind that she might do some damage to her child, and, my God, you know, people, "We are never watching this show again."" "You know, that is just-- it's a bridge too far."" "It's interesting." "More with the drama showrunners who call the shots when we come back." "When you travel, we help you make all kinds of connections." "Connections you almost miss." "And ones you never thought you'd make." "We help connect where you are." "To places you never thought you'd go." "This, is why we travel." "And why we continue to create new technology to connect you to the people and places that matter." "Imagine - she won't have to remember passwords." "Or obsess about security." "She'll log in with her smile." "He'll have his very own personal assistant." "And this guy won't just surf the web." "He'll touch it." "Scribble on it." "And share it." "Because these kids will grow up with Windows 10." "Get started today." "Windows 10." "A more human way to do." "This little guy is about to make his first deposit." "We'd like to open a savings account for him." "Yes yes." "Great" "Thanks to mom and dad and their Safe" "Driving Bonus Check from Allstate." "Oh." "Look at this." "Safe Driving Bonus." "Are you a safe driver?" "Lucky little fella." "Only Allstate gives you two Safe Driving" "Bonus Checks a year for driving safe." "See how much more an Allstate Agent can do for you." "Call 877-644-3100." "Like in most families, dad's always the last to know." "That's why Accident Forgiveness was the first thing he asked for when he switched to Allstate." "Michael James!" "Middle name." "Not good." "Get Accident Forgiveness from Allstate and keep your rates from going up just because of an accident." "Find out how a local Allstate Agent can help better protect your family." "Call one right now." "Plus, drivers who switched saved an average of $446 a year!" "Just a few more ways the good hands are doing more than ever before." "See what the personal service of an Allstate Agent can do for you." "Call 877-644-3100" "Welcome back to "Close Up with the Hollywood Reporter."" "We're getting into it with the producers behind your favorite dramas." "We'd love to know what was the most difficult moment you've had collaborating, be it with a DP, a director, an actor, fellow writers, and how did you get through it?" " I can't speak" " This is dynamite." "You know that, don't you?" "This is dynamite." "She's asking." "You're pressing the "Good Times" movie already." " You're going next, Lee." " I don't know about that." "I think I'm gonna pass on this one." "I'm gonna pass on this one." "Who's the sucker that takes this one?" "I think that there's something very interesting about our jobs, which is, you know, I consider myself a writer." "Like, that's what I feel like, and I became a producer as a result of that." "Like, I have this intense desire for everybody to like me." "And so that's not a good management trait." "But in the writer's room, I constantly feel like I have to convince them all that this idea is great." "And they'll be like, "You don't have to convince us." "You're the boss," and I'll be like," ""No, but you need to know."" "You know, "Why don't you think it's great?"" "And it can be infuriating probably for them and for me because I'm like, "No, I need to know." "I need to know this is good."" "Well, the classic example of that is like, you know, oftentimes, we've all been there, you know, when you have to rewrite somebody on staff." "And you just want the writer that you've rewritten to say," ""God, Alex, that was great."" "And that's just the writer in you talking." "That's never gonna happen, and you shouldn't expect it to happen, but it's, again," ""Please, like me." "Like my ideas."" "It's the hardest thing ever, I think." "I have a partner, he's an incredible writer and really my backbone, Danny Strong." "And so when we don't see eye to eye, it's painful." "I have a very clear vision." "I mean, I come from film, where director is God, and so if there's a clash, it's painful." "It's like I'm fighting with my lover." "And then we then have to go and fight with the production company and then fight with the network." "I mean, it's cray-cray It can" " It's like, you know" "What was the biggest disagreement" " you and Danny had this year?" " I think music." "But it's painful." "It's painful because I love him." "And I don't wanna fight with my partner." "Let's fight with the network, you know?" "I don't think that there has to be a ton of conflict in collaborations for them to be successful." "I go to great pains to make sure that the drama stays on the page as much as possible and not-- it's not on set or in the writers' room." "But does it happen that ever that the drama is" "I'm the guy without the juicy tales to tell because" "That's what we all need to be, y'all." "We need to be over." "Listen to his story." "I, mean when I'm working with the actors, the directors," "I'm very interested in their input." "I want to remain as open as possible to it." "If you see it as an attack on your vision, that's more about your insecurity than it is about true collaboration, which is trying to get to the collective thing that's better than anything that one person can do." "Now, ultimately, someone has to be the decider, has to make decisions, but ideally, you arrive at something together." "I'll use one from season three as an example." "In the tenth episode, there's a very intimate scene after he's fired his own wife and asks Tom Yates, played by Paul Sparks, to come over because he needs to unburden himself, and there's not a lot of people he can trust." "In my first pass at that," "I thought I'd written a really good scene." "I had a clear notion of what I wanted to do, and Kevin reads it, and he says, "I don't know why" "I would trust this man to the degree that you're saying I trust him because what has he given me?"" "My defensive side, my insecure side of me at least said," ""Well, no, this is a good scene." "you just don't want to play it."" " But I didn't say that." " Right." "I thought it, and I let it go, and I said, "Is he right?" "And when I was honest with myself and with the words on the page, he was right." "I went to Paul, the other actor, and I said," ""This is what Kevin said." "What do you think?"" "He goes, "I agree." I go, "Great." "I'm gonna take another stab on it."" "Five or six drafts later on this very important scene and constantly talking to the actors, we got to a scene where they were excited to play it." "And I said, "When we get to this intimate moment," "I'm gonna remove all the stage directions."" "And I talked to the director, a great Polish director," "Agnieszka Holland, about this, and I said," ""Let's let them just do whatever feels right in that moment." "Let's not try to write it." "Let's not try to direct it." "Let's let them play it." And that's what we did." "And that could have been a situation where it was really argumentative, where I was defensive about the work, where people got entrenched in their positions, or it could have been what it was, and what I'm grateful was-- an ongoing dialogue" "that led to something that was better than where we started." "That's all we want is something that's better than where we started." "Yeah, all that matters is what ends up in that rectangle at the end of the day, you know?" "And there's a lot of different ways to get there that," " you know, there isn't" " Spacey and you don't fight at all?" "We can be very opinionated." " So y'all fight?" " No, no, it's not fighting." " It's" " Arguing." "( laughter )" "It's let's really-- let's both struggle to get to the thing that we need to get to, but knowing that there's no animosity, there's nothing personal about it, and that we both want the same thing." "Well, I fight with my actors." "We get down." " Yeah." " Yes!" "Pulling weaves and rolling on the floor getting down." "Right, I mean, I guess my sort of philosophy is that, you create a safe place where you can get dangerous." "And the danger doesn't need to be between us, the collaborators." "The danger should be in the moment" " in front of the camera." " Yeah." "The moment "House of Cards" starts to become easy for me," "( clicks tongue ) I'm out, you know?" "Because that just means you're either repeating yourself, you're getting creatively lazy, or you're in the land of mediocrity, and I don't know," "I don't find that very interesting." "Dude, that is why your ( bleep ) so badass." "( laughter )" "Sprint asks, what makes a great family plan?" "We need 4 lines." "And data." "A lot of data." "How about 4 lines with 10 gigs of data to share for 100 bucks?" "100 dollars?" "Really?" "Yup, that's way less than Verizon or ATT and more than double the high-speed data of T-Mobile." "But, we're locked in our contract." "Not anymore." "Sprint will pay off your old phone and contract so you can switch." "Goodbye ATT!" "Everybody's switching to the best family plan from Sprint." "Get 4 Lines with unlimited talk, text and 10 gigs of high-speed data to share for only $100/mo." "And now get your new phone delivered and set up for free" "Welcome back to "Close Up with the Hollywood Reporter."" "We're talking with the showrunners behind your favorite dramas." "All right, if you had to do a spinoff of your current show or perhaps an older one, who would you choose to do it about?" "I've always wanted to do the comedy spinoff of a drama." "Anne Dowd, who we killed off the show last year, like a three-camera situation comedy taking place in the Guilty Remnant, the creative challenges of that would be immense." "How about you, Lee, if you had to spin off "Empire"?" "I like Porsha." "I like" " Porsha's a hoot." "It's almost like "Rhoda" as a sort of spinoff." "Stacey:" "What about therestof youguys?" "We have cast a bunch of actors who are in their 70s and 80s, and I would love to gather all of them and somehow concoct a show with Linda Lavin and Ed Asner." "I mean, that's when you've got heaven." "And perhaps most importantly-- if you had to engage in a bar brawl with one of your characters, who would you want on your side, and who would you want to fight?" "There's just no version of an answer that's not going to upset somebody." "Say it." "Say it." "I want to fight your character." "I would want Nora Durst." "Carrie Coon plays her." "She's like one of the toughest characters that I think that has been on any show that I've ever had anything to do with." "Doug Stamper all the way for me." "'Cause I figure you win either way." "He's resilient, too." "If you kicked Doug Stamper's ass, you've just defeated, like, the biggest badass of all time, so props to you." "If he defeats you, no shame, because of course he's going to beat you up." "I want to fight with some indie extra and then have Alicia Florrick and Diane Lockhart represent me in the trial." "( laughter )" "I probably want to fight Alison, because on some level, it would be like fighting myself." "Stacey:" "Ooh,I wishwe hadmoretime ." "I'd have this incredible existential breakthrough, anabout it afterwards,nd be like therapy." " It'd would be amazing." " Perfect." "Alex:" "I'dfightF. MurrayAbraham because he haunted me for so many years." "I used to have his-- a photograph of him above my desk when he was playing Salieri in "Amadeus."" "Stacey:" "That'sscary." "And, you know, underneath, I had written," ""The patron saint of mediocrity."" "I'd sort of worship at the temple of-- and he really did." "Like, I just felt like I wasn't Mozart." "You know, I was Salieri." "And so I would just punch his lights out." "( light laughter )" "Stacey:" "And,Lee?" "Bestfor last." "I fight them enough, so I don't need to fight 'em." "We fight enough." "How about just someone to have a drink with after you wrap." "We drink enough." "We really-- we fight, we drink, and we love." "Well, on that note, thank you all for being here." "We learned a lot." "Very entertaining." " Thank you very much." " Thank you."