"[man speaking Kogi] [female voice, echoing] In the beginning, there was nothing." "All was darkness." "Se." "There was nothing at all." "Only the Mother." "She was Aluna." "She was pure thought." "Without form." "She began to think." "The Mother conceived the world in the darkness." "She conceived us as ideas." "As we think out a house before we begin to make it real." "[conversing in Kogi]" "[continues in tribal language]" "[male narrator, echoing] She spun the thread." "[female voice, echoing] Spinning us all in the story." "Creating us in thought." "[echoing] And then came the light." "And the world was real." "[faint scraping] [water trickling]" "[Alan Ereira] I first met Shibulata when he was 50." "I was 48." "He's 70 now." "[light scraping]" "Around 20,000 Kogi live here." "The Heartland." "They have no wheel, no writing, and do not welcome strangers." "They believe their job is to take care of the world." "Shibulata is called a Mama." "It means: "enlightened"." "He's training his daughter, who uses the name "Francisca"." "[trickling]" "The Mamas said they wanted to work with me because the world is sick and dying, and we have to understand that." "They decided to abandon centuries of caution, and warn us." "I came to the Sierra Nevada in 1988," "Alan Ereira, working for the BBC." "The Mamas said they wanted to send out a message." "[man translating from Kogi] I'm here, we all are here, to give a warning." "The animals die, the trees dry up, people become ill." "Many new illnesses will appear, there will be no cure or medicine for them." "[Ereira] They say that we mutilate the world, because we do not remember the Great Mother." "That, unless we do something... the world is coming to an end." "[man translating from Kogi] You've destroyed so much... but you see?" "No." "Understand?" "No." "Start to understand, or what will happen?" "Right." "That's it." "[rustling]" "[Ereira] Then they waited, watched and listened to nature." "[male reporter] major earthquake hit Japan... [female reporter] a severe respiratory disease called SARS has broken out... [male reporter] predicts searing drugs, epic floods... [speaking Kogi] We have not spoken clearly." "Our deep analysis... has repeatedly confirmed... the need for Alan to make a new film." "[continues in Kogi] The Earth is a living body." "It has veins and blood." "Damaging certain places... is like cutting off a limb." "It damages the whole body." "This place... is called Sezhua." "It is an esuama." "[light scraping]" "It connects the mountains with the shore." "Younger Brother must listen... and stop causing damage... or nature herself will finish us off." "[Mama Shibulata speaking Kogi] We must renew this message to our English brother so that he will explain it to the world." "We must renew this message to our English brother." "So that he will explain it to the world." "[Ereira] I'd stayed in touch for 20 years, but not been summoned before." "In the meantime, I've retired," "I had no BBC helicopter, and a Kogi had learned to use a camera." "[humming]" "[Mama Shibulata speaking Kogi] First they film and then they edit." "Then they show it to other Younger Brothers." "This is what they plan to do." "We'll have to explain everything point by point, from the shore to the mountain to show them very clearly." "[Ereira] They wanted to show our scientists the way nature interconnects, so, together, we constructed a plan." "[rooster calls]" "We will travel to London to pick up a gold thread and bring it back." "[speaking Kogi] We start here at Haba Shikaka." "We lay the gold thread... to show important sites." "[phone line ringing]" " [man] Hello?" " [Ereira] Oh, hello." " This is Alan Ereira." " [man] Yes, hello there." "[Ereira] I'm phoning to confirm our order for thread." "[man] Right, okay." "Where do you want it delivered to?" "[Ereira] This is something I need to discuss with the Indians." "There's a real possibility they may come to you to collect it." "[light scraping] [car horns honking]" "[Ereira] They call this the civilized world." "It's a sort of joke." "Here, they have no address, no documents, no identity." "They speak no Spanish." "Have no signatures." "For them, shoes would break the connection between humans and the Earth." "Without shoes, you're not allowed to board a plane." "[speaking in foreign language]" "[Ereira, over phone] I think we're going to need four hundred kilometres of gold thread." "[man] Four hundred... kilometres." "Yes, okay, fair enough." "Is that a fairly precise amount?" "[Ereira] It's..." "There's no way of being really precise about it, is there?" "I think the question is, "How long is a piece of string?"" "[light scraping]" "Do come through and let me show you the machine that's made this gold thread which I've made for you." "Here." "Now, the thread is made by pushing a core yarn through a pipe, here... and the wire laps around it, and it runs onto a reel at the bottom, here." "[whirring]" "[Mama Shibulata speaking Kogi] When time began... the Mother laid a black thread... linking special sites." "The Black Line." "But now Younger Brother is destroying many of these sites." "We want to show the Black Line using the gold thread." "[Ereira] It all seems so obvious to them." "Places are linked by a black thread of invisible thought." "Gold is linked to Aluna." "It never decays." "But what's that to us?" "[light scraping]" "We arranged a meeting with a world-renowned astronomer to see if the Kogi picture of the universe can make sense as science." "I'd like to begin by asking the Kogi-view of the world, how large it is, and its form." "[speaking Kogi] According to our ancestors... the universe is very large and we see very little of it." "This is Se, the darkness." "Se is the Mother... and Father of everything." "[Ereira] Their picture of the universe is never going to be yours." "[Ellis] No, because I have seen... things that they couldn't possibly imagine." "[Ereira] But then, what you talk about are things the rest of the normal human race can't imagine." "It's not that complicated." "Well, I hear the words "dark energy"." "Ah, well, dark energy is a recent discovery." "[Ereira] When you say "dark energy", what are you talking about?" "It's a property, probably of space, that we haven't yet understood." "That makes the universe accelerate." "And... it's a mystery, at the moment." " But it fills all space?" " It fills all space." "[Ellis] It could take another 100 years before we really, finally, understand what's going on." "[speaking Kogi] We were left... objects, like maps, that show us where to connect with the darkness." "These places, or nodes, are called esuamas." "[Ellis] And these nodes are intersections with the material world and the darkness, is that right?" "[Ellis] I'm trying to understand whether... the Kogi can grasp the idea of learning something new from an instrument like a telescope." "The concept of discovery." "[Ereira] I think that their notion of acquiring knowledge is the opposite of ours." "I think that our notion is that each generation knows more than the one before." "And theirs is that each generation knows less than the one before." "[speaking Kogi] The world of Se, the dark world we cannot see... is linked to the material world... in places which must not be damaged." "We know how to concentrate... to connect with... the darkness in Aluna." "In thought." "Here he is, in London, learning completely new things, that he couldn't possibly have imagined in his village." "Most people would say that experience changes you." "You know, maybe irreversibly." "But I don't get that impression, looking at the Mama." "I get the impression that he has a vision, and his purpose is to tell us that vision, and that's why he's here." "What we see through the telescope...." "So... this is a picture of a small part of the sky... and what we see is lots of systems of stars." "That we couldn't see without the telescope." "[speaking Kogi] This star is called Sulabena." "That's a star, here." "That is one star by itself." "And Mama has found the one star in this..." "A single, isolated star in this picture, straight away." "[speaking Kogi] We cannot see this star in the sky." "Its light is produced by a great fire." " That's right." " That we cannot see it." "[Ellis] Why couldn't we learn from them?" "We, the Mamas, know... that there are special sites and they are threaded together." "[Mama Shibulata speaking Kogi] We're explaining this to our brothers across the sea." "We're explaining this to our brothers across the sea and showing the connection between places." "[rustling] [spinning, whirring]" "[scraping]" "[pulsing heartbeat]" "[Ereira] The Mamas set out to trace a Black Line along the shore, joining specific sites by the mouths of the rivers." "These, they say, connect directly with locations on the mountain and where they used to do their work." "Before the modern world took over, and changed things." "[conversing in Kogi]" "[speaking Kogi] There was a big mangrove lagoon here." "We used to make payments to the Mother here." "That's not possible now." "This place is the origin of everything." "It's the start of the thread." "Tying the material world to Aluna." "It is mother and father to everything." "[Ereira] The sites may have been destroyed, but that's the point of the journey." "The gold thread will be laid." "The hidden line will be revealed." "[speaking Kogi] Shikaka is the Black Thread." "Important sites... along the line on the coast are connected to esuamas in the mountain." "We collect materials here on the shore... to make payments in the mountains." "And we bring materials from the mountain, to make payments down here." "[Ereira] Esuama means "place of authority"." "The Kogi believe that's how nature operates." "Esuamas in the mountain have direct linkage to places on the shore." "The Kogi told me before about token objects they exchange between the mountain and the shore." "But I'd thought this was symbolic." "[tinkling]" "[Mama Shibulata speaking Kogi] We gather shells here." "They are like seeds of knowledge." "We put them in the sugui." "We must always carry the sugui." "When we taste the shells... we connect with Aluna, with thought." "[trickling]" "[Ereira] Mixing the burnt, crushed shells with water, produces lime." "That makes a paste in their mouths that Kogi men say connects them to the source of life." "That paste is rubbed off the stick, onto the top of the sugui." "[Mama Luntana speaking Kogi] Our thoughts build up on top of the sugui." "Each man carries the book of his thoughts." "To be given the sugui means to listen." "Sugui means "to know everything"." "To listen." "That is why we have ears." "That is why we have ears." "To think is to listen." "Listen." "[waves gushing]" "[conversing in Kogi]" "[water trickling]" "[Mama Shibulata speaking Kogi] In the days of our ancestors... we made payments... at the special sites here." "But now... they are destroying these sites." "This lagoon was larger." "It is drying out bit by bit." "It must not be damaged further." "It must not be damaged further." "[waves lapping] [speaking Kogi] We have walked for a long time." "We stop here." " Now what do we do?" " We make a payment." "That is why we are walking along the line, making payments at all the sites." "Connecting with the mountain in Aluna." "They must see us do this." "[Ereira] Why they want Younger Brother to see this?" "What is the point?" "What do you think..." "Younger Brother will...." "How will this change Younger Brother?" "Does...." "I don't understand." "[speaking Kogi] We have always cared for this place." "But Younger Brother destroyed it." "He has been destroying everything." "The world is our mother." "If we destroy her, where will we live?" "It's almost the end of the world." "That's why we need to show you all this." "[Ereira] I just can't see that what happens to one specific site, is echoed in another miles away." "But the Mamas say understanding that, is the key to healing the world." "Dr. Camillo, you have been working as a doctor in the Sierra, for many years." "You have gotten to know the Kogi very well, you've learned a good deal about them." "[speaking Spanish] For the last 35 years." "Are there things that you have... seen a Mama or Mamas do, that you have thought..." ""only a Mama could do that"?" "[Camillo speaking Spanish] Yes." "Take the basin of the Guachaca river for instance." "It was completely deforested by cocaine producers and cattle farmers." "It was practically dead until they returned it to the indigenous people." "And that was only 20 years ago." "Today, the basin is utterly changed." "What was once a cattle ranch and a nearly dried up river...." "Now there are forests, many animals, the river is full again." "It's astonishing." "But these are not immediate results." "[speaking Kogi] When... a baby is born..." "Is it an adult the next day?" "Jacinto, what is the plan for today's filming?" " What do you want to do?" " [speaking Spanish] We're going to another site." "The Mamas will connect with the sites... at the top of the mountain." "I'm sure all this is very interesting for you." "I thought that we were making a...." "We were trying...." "The Kogi wanted to explain... that the world is dying because of our actions... and they wanted to make this plain and clear at certain sites along the Black Line." "So far, I have seen nothing to indicate that the world is suffering, or the world is dying." "I have seen nothing to indicate that what happens at these places on the Black Line has anything to do with the health of the world." "[speaking Spanish] Okay, I will tell them." "They will consult the water." "We must show you in action that we really have a connection with nature." "I agree that it would be a good idea for the Mamas to... consult and think more about what they're doing, and consider how they communicate with us... because they need to show to us that they actually do have something to say." "To show that places on the coast are connected to places higher up, and directly affect them, we really have to go up the mountain and see the connection." "[man translating from Kogi] The lakes that are found high in the mountains... are linked to the sea." "Bubbles appear in the water... and the bubbles make the connection." "[bird calling]" "That is how we communicate with the lakes and the sea." "And with the Mother." "The waters speak." "[Mama Shibulata speaking Kogi] The Mother, through the water, is asking, "Are you going to help me or just take pictures?"" "Do you think we say these words for the sake of talking?" "We are speaking the truth." "We consult the water." "We read the bubbles and the Mother is telling us the whole world must take notice to see what's happening." "We can see this in the bubbles." "Like reading a book." "It's true!" "It's true!" "The Mother speaks through the bubbles." "It's the truth." "It's the truth." "You must straighten out what we said, to make sure it is understood." "[Ereira] I'm sorry, but the bubbles don't speak to us." "We have to see the connection with this "Mother"." "[radio transmission]" "[Ereira over radio] Jacinto, KI." "What is our first possible date for going up the mountain?" "[Jacinto speaking Spanish] We just found out that... there are guerrillas in the Sierra Nevada." "They know foreigners are coming." "Which makes it very dangerous for us." "[radio bleeps]" "[Ereira] Right." "Obviously, we must cancel." "We can't take the risk of going anywhere dangerous." "How long will it take him to get up there, find the things out, and come back down again?" "[Ereira] We dare not fly up the mountain, even though we have a helicopter for the day." "[Mama Shibulata speaking Kogi] Younger Brother doesn't understand." "They do not know these sites are special." "If they continue destroying these sites... no-one will survive." "The hill of Hukulwa... stood guard at the ocean." "He has authority over many things." "Over wind, fish and animals." "He was the highest authority." "The leader." "[female reporter] The indigenous tribes are so alarmed that they walked for days from communities on the world's highest coastal mountain to reach this site on the shore." "Developers have dug a trench to drain the lagoons here, mangrove swamps teeming with life." "[light scraping] [commotion, shouting]" "The construction company says that building a port here is necessary for Colombia's growing mining industry, and will create 5,000 new jobs." "[speaking Spanish] This is an official map of the area." "The site they call Hukulwa is 12 kilometres to the west of here." "There are no indigenous sites here." "[speaking Kogi] It's you who doesn't know!" "This is our own place and we are telling you." "Not just today, but for 500 years!" "What are you doing here?" "[indistinct conversation in Spanish]" "[Mama Manuel speaking Kogi] I wish we could speak Spanish... so we could explain to the state and others... that this destruction would cause fierce storms and landslides." "[water gushing, screaming]" "[rumbling, indistinct radio chatter]" "[speaking Kogi] We've come as far as Hukulwe." "They say we are not allowed in." "They keep saying there is no site in here." "[light scraping]" "[indistinct conversation in Kogi] [helicopter whirring] [speaking Spanish] Why are we here?" "[speaking Kogi] You can see the scars on the mountain." "These landslides happen... because of the damage at Hukulwa." "The water cycle is changing." "The rain now pours, day after day." "There used to be seasons." "[light scraping]" "Not anymore." "If you block a person's vein... their blood would not flow." "It is the same for this site." "That's what they've done by destroying Hukulwa." "[Ereira] Well, it's a beautiful day down here on the coast of Colombia and behind me there's the snow visible on the mountain peaks of the Sierra Nevada." "And it seems that the guerrillas have melted away like snowmen." "The army is saying that they'll fly us up." "The only problem is... this is the third day we've been waiting for the army helicopter because the weather has been lousy." "So, our schedule's fallen apart, we're not at all sure what we're doing or how we continue." "We hope that a helicopter is gonna turn up today, it looks very good here, but, apparently, the weather where the helicopter is taking off from... isn't so good." "So... we'll see what happens." "[waves lapping]" "[Ereira] With nothing else to do, the Mamas have time or a Caribbean beach party." "But they also consult the bubbles." "[light scraping]" "[Mama Shibulata speaking Kogi] This is the estuary of the Guachaca river." "This place... is connected." "It is one of the sites on the Black Line." "They should not have built here." "That is why their buildings have died." "[Ereira] Mamas have restored the forest upriver, but at the estuary, professionals are in charge." "Germán, I would like you to explain to the Mama what your view is of damage to the river estuaries." "[speaking Spanish] I'm a biologist, and I've studied fresh water fish my whole life." "A river is a system." "A system that moves in only one direction." "The effects are clear from top to bottom, but less clear the other way." "Why?" "Because nothing ever moves upwards." "The downward flow has obvious effects." "Erosion and deforestation higher up affect the coastal areas below." "The other way around is not at all evident." "[speaking Kogi] You say he is learned." "I don't believe it." "We have studied the Mother well." "She shows what must be protected." "This man..." "He has learned nothing at all." "You don't teach each other not to damage the Mother." "You dig." "You exploit the Earth." "If you knew she can feel, you'd stop." "But you plunder her." "All the estuaries are like this." "You block the lagoons." "How would you feel if someone stuck a cork up your ass?" "[speaking Spanish] But he hasn't explained how." "The connection top to bottom is obvious." "The water flows down and carries things." "But what takes things back?" "[Mama Luntana speaking Kogi] If we explain this step by step, they still won't understand." "How can we put this?" "The rain that falls in the highlands, has its home down here." "You just see the water coming down the mountain... but first it has to ascend from here." "The home of the rain that falls up there is down here." "The lagoons down here... supply lakes up there." "Imagine going for a walk and returning to find your home knocked down." "You wouldn't feel too good about it." "[speaking Kogi]" "They think we're wrong." "We have to prove the connection to the top." "[helicopter whirring]" "[loud whirring]" "[Mama Manuel speaking Kogi] Because we do not have writing, and are not educated in their schools," "Younger Brother may not believe what we say." "[Mama Shibulata speaking Kogi] This is Sezhua." "[light scraping]" "They connect with the sea... and establish..." "how things are." "There was a small lake here... called Haba Nisenumwe." "It was the Mother of the hanoi tree." "When they built a power station at the lagoon this river feeds, and damaged Hukulwa," "it sucked the water from the top of the Sierra." "A number of large landslides... occurred here in the mountains, and changed the course of the river." "Destroying the site of the Mother of hanoi." "Alan." "You don't believe me?" "Look at this." "When the Mother was washed away... it killed this tree." "This is the ancestral tree of hanoi." "Only one remains." "This one is dead." "If the other dies, all hanoi here will die, as well as other plants in the area." "With this plant we become adults." "It is essential to us." "You shake hands." "We exchange special food, leaves of hanoi." "We concentrate our thought by chewing hanoi." "We, the Mamas, are taught how to know things." "We are taught... how to shape this house." "The first ring represents the beach." "Then another ring, and another... until the top of the mountain." "If we destroy a single ring, the whole building weakens." "[incoherent speech, light scraping]" "[Mama Shibulata speaking Kogi] So why is this place an esuama?" "This is a place where we can connect." "From here we can concentrate and understand where payments are needed..." "All along the coast." "We are told where work is required." "When it is not possible to go down... we concentrate here... to make the payment from here." "Because it is connected." "[Mama Shibulata speaking Kogi] I was trained as a Mama closed in the dark." "In the darkness there are no distractions." "Thought is concentrated." "I was taught to stare at my feet... to concentrate and connect with Aluna" "I was not allowed to look around, or I would lose the thread." "I was only allowed to eat certain food throughout my training." "I was only allowed to bathe at midnight." "I was kept in the darkness from the age of seven months." "I stayed inside until I became a man." "I stayed inside until I became a man." "I stayed inside until I became a man." "[light scraping]" "[incoherent speech in Kogi]" "That is where I learned to work as a Mama." "To make payments for all the crops and other things too." "[tapping]" "When I came out of the darkness, the whole world was white." "[bird calling]" "I stood there, staring at nature." "[birdsong]" "I saw everything." "The sun, the trees, the creatures." "It all looked strange." "The sun and everything else looked strange." "[light scraping]" "[Ereira] Well, this is the third night of our two-day visit to this esuama." "We're not quite sure why we're still here." "We needed to move on, and to do that, we needed mules and a helicopter." "Mules to carry food and baggage, and a helicopter to carry the camera equipment." "We got the mules." "We didn't get the helicopter, and we don't know why." "We have satellite phones, but they're not really working." "All that we can do is receive text messages." "Why did your phone say it's 17:28?" "[man chuckling] Have you noticed that?" "And so far, we have had two." "[Ereira] We believe they come from somewhere in the 21st century, but they are a bit mysterious." "[laughing]" "We got a text message this morning which said that the helicopter was about to take off." "That was at 8:30 this morning." "We waited... and we're still waiting." "We'll see what happens tomorrow." "[helicopter whirring]" "[Mama Shibulata speaking Kogi] When I was a child... all the peaks were covered in snow." "Everything was white." "Look at it." "Just look at it." "The lakes up here are drying out, as the lagoons below are drying out." "The water has been sucked away and now the rivers become dry." "[helicopter whirring]" "[continues in Kogi] Seven rivers that feed the coast are born in this place." "In this lake." "On this peak." "It's the source of all those rivers." "Last time we were here there was more water." "It's drying because these plants don't belong here." "[incoherent conversation in Kogi]" "There used to be much more water before, and the water is already dry on the other side." "You must understand... that these trees should not be here." "They have been brought here." "The native plants are dying." "[Ereira] The Kogi say that damage at the bottom of the rivers, at the river mouths, affects the system up here." "Do you believe that?" "[speaking Spanish]" "Any damage done up here, has an effect all the way down the river, and just as they're saying:" "damage below also affects the top." "The vegetation is changing around this lake." "The government has planted trees from other countries." "Eucalyptus, cypresses around the lagoon." "These trees take away the water and compete with the local vegetation." "Normally, dense clouds up here cool the water, and the condensation runs down the tree trunks and accumulates in the rocks." "These rocks act like sponges, holding the water, releasing it farther down the mountain." "Rivers are living systems." "They constantly communicate with plants and birds." "They are vital to the spreading of seeds, from top to bottom and bottom to top." "New studies explain why some species turn up unexpectedly in mountain peaks." "For example, some fish from the lagoons are associated with migrating birds which carry fish eggs in their wings." "[continues in Spanish] Many countries, Spain for instance, are putting this knowledge into practice by removing canals from rivers on the coast to improve water flow at the top of the mountains." "[Ereira] It was beginning to fit together, and we'd had some good news." "A world leader in marine biology had actually arrived on the coast to look at the sites and meet the Mamas." "Well, one of the things I'm very interested in is the way in which the Kogi view the natural world." "[speaking Kogi] This site... is the origin... of blood." "Of all the blood, of all the things that exist." "Plants, animals and fish." "[Ereira] The Kogi talk in quite a mystical way about the connections between the sea, the rivers, the lakes, the land." "I can't see how that makes sense to a scientist." "Well, it makes a huge amount of sense, particularly here, on the northern coast of Colombia." "The Kogi talk about threads, between these systems." "Effectively, those systems really are very strongly connected." "[Mama Shibulata speaking Kogi] These were once very big lagoons, but then they built the power station." "[light scraping]" "We can see how it is drying out this lagoon." "It is almost dead." "We know how important this site is." "It protects everything we consume." "All along this coast, the development has disrupted... the flow of water from the land towards the sea." "And this has caused big problems in the whole area." "Because of the very high evaporation, caused by the heat, you end up with very large quantities of salt in the ground, which often kills the vegetation." "[speaking Kogi] Here, the Mamas are saying that all the water is being sucked down and it is drying out." "This is happening in many places." "The rivers feed the ocean." "When we interrupt that, how will we live?" "We will not be able to breathe well nor live well." "We agree with him." "[Rogers] Along this stretch of coastline in Colombia, you almost have a microcosm." "What is happening elsewhere in the Caribbean, and also elsewhere on the planet." "Their view that all these activities are really having a serious impact at a larger scale, are quite right." "[waves lapping]" "[speaking Kogi] I came here, before there was a power station." "There was very little black sand then." "The sand is dirty." "It has been since they built it." "Look how they're trying to clean it up for the camera." "[whirring]" "[mechanical hissing, beeping]" "[rumbling, clattering]" "[loud mechanical creaking]" "[beeping]" "[speaking Kogi] It was not like this before Younger Brother arrived." "[light scraping, rustling] [speaking Spanish] This is how we find treasure." "We dig out the pot..." "We take off the earth." "[speaking Kogi] These objects were left... in special places." "They are like people." "They are part of the thread... for us to connect with." "They must not be moved." "[speaking Spanish] They are buried." "Finding a piece like this takes four, five, six months of work." "That's if you're lucky." "Most of the time you dig and all you find is bits of pottery." "But this means a lot to them... because it's from their ancestors." "They are the real owners of these pieces." "Not the people who buy them." "But as with everything in life, this is part of our struggle to survive." "[Mama Shibulata speaking Kogi] Did your ancestors make this?" "Selling this is like selling a person." "Stop doing this!" "It's like selling a child to another person." "Like selling a child to another person." "[speaking Spanish] Tell the Mama we're sorry." "[speaking Kogi] It is a macaw." "It was found in the place of the macaw." "It is a macaw." "It was found in the place of the macaw." "There used to be many macaws." "But because of the looting..." "But because of the looting, there are almost no macaws now." "There are almost no macaws now." "The birds are disappearing." "[speaking Spanish] I think the macaws are gone because of deforestation." "They have nowhere left to live." "There's no forest left for food and shelter." "I think that's the reason." "Not the looting." "[birds calling faintly, insects chirping]" "[cell phone ringing]" " Hello, Jonathan?" " Hello, Alan, how are you?" "We're fine." "We've just managed to log on to Skype." "You can hear us?" "Yes, we can hear you, and please send my greetings from the Zoological Society of London." "[speaking Kogi] Greetings my little brother." "I want to talk to you... about... the Fathers of species." "Each species has... a special site... at its root, which people must protect." "[Baillie] In conservation, we have a problem." "Because we tend to conserve an area, without much thought to..." "the special places in a geological time scale." "So, for species, there are areas that are like a refuge, which, through geologic time, have been extremely important for them to survive." "And on the short term, we may remove these areas, and there may be no big effect, but in the long term, through history, the species can't persist when those special zones have disappeared." "So, in many ways, we're looking for much the same thing, as to understand where exactly these special sites are." "[speaking Kogi] That is correct." "That is correct." "Here on the coast there are many special sites which are the origin:" "the parents of each species." "Little Brother has destroyed so many, the species have gone." "When sites are looted the animals leave." "Then they can no longer survive." "We have to better understand connectivity, and right now, we have a very basic understanding of how things interact and affect each other." "And I believe that this is... essential for our future's security." "To understand these special sites, to ensure that they're conserved." " [Ereira] Jonathan..." " Yes?" "I want to try moving the computer to another location while we continue talking, if that's all right?" "See if it works any better." "Can you hear me all right?" "I can hear you fine." "The connection seems to be holding, and when I turn the computer around, you may be able to see the dolphins leaping, which are paying attention to this conversation." "[Ereira] Taking some real interest in it." "[Baillie] Well, it's an important one." "[Ereira] It is very extraordinary to hear that these kind of origin sites that the Indians are talking about, make sense to you as well." "[Ereira] This won't come as a surprise, only comes as a surprise to me, and I think will come as a surprise to a lot of people." "I don't find it such a surprise really, though, I mean, people living with nature understand... a lot more about it, obviously, than... a world that has become much..." "really disconnected from it." "Living with nature, you realise that certain species have certain strongholds, or certain refuge areas, that are essential to them." "They're telling us something from their experience which we should easily recognise, but for some reason, we find it very difficult." "[Baillie over Skype] And I think it's very important to have that message, and... they're the ones that are going to know these... these particular areas in the forest, that will be important for the long-term survival of species." "So I think we have much to learn from them." "[gentle rippling]" "[faint laughter]" "[Ereira] The final estuary." "The final place to lay the thread." "Ciénaga Grande." "The Great Lagoon." "[motorcycle roaring]" "[Mama Shibulata speaking Kogi] The Mother was alive here." "When they built this road, they blocked the flow between the lagoon and the sea." "[Rogers] I think this really illustrates... the Kogi concept of threads between different parts of this ecosystem." "[traffic buzzing]" "[Mama Shibulata speaking Kogi] The start of the thread was the origin of the world." "This was once a lagoon." "Now it is dead." "We have arrived at the end." "[female voice, echoing] Gold does not decay." "Esuamas were dressed in gold." "Now, it is wealth." "And has all been plundered." "This was the material bridge to life, vitalizing the water." "The esuamas are stripped." "The water dries out." "How will we live?" "[Ereira] I thought the journey was over." "But now, the Mamas took over the filming." "Simply saying that, without hope, all this would be pointless." "[Mama Shibulata speaking Kogi] Our message is not only for people here, but people all over the world." "You don't have to abandon your lives, but you must protect the rivers." "When a baby is born, the Mother is rejuvenated." "[water rippling] [bells ringing, incoherent conversation in Kogi]" "[woman speaking Kogi] A daughter is like the Mother." "She is the guardian of the Mother." "The Mother is the owner of everything." "[rooster calls] All the rivers, all the mountains." "Without women, daughters, who would guard all of this?" "[Ereira] I thought this was the Mamas journey, and I would film what happened to them." "But in fact, they were taking me on a journey." "They see a possibility of hope." "If we listen." "[woman speaking Kogi] When a baby is born you must have good thoughts." "Teach the example of others who have lived well." "[incoherent speech in Kogi]" "I've still got my clothes on!" "[laughter]" "[speaking Kogi] This baby will teach the next generation." "She will carry on the thread." "[light scraping]"