"We wanted to use this logo against Richard Hartley's piano playing of the Twentieth Century Fox theme." "We wanted to use that for the denouement instead of the RKO sign." "That was interesting." "Lou Adler and Michael White, our producers." " Yes, that's correct." " Erstwhile people." "I'm rather missing..." "Whose mouth do you think this might be?" " Mine!" " Yeah, it is." "Interesting enough, when we did the stage play it was you that sang this song." "They offered you the part of Magenta in the movie, and what did you say?" "They told me I wasn't going to be able to sing the song." "They couldn't have an usherette open the film." "So I'd lost my song, "Science Fiction."" "And I said, "You can take your movie and shove it up your..."" "Where the sun don't shine?" "They were very amazed, because they had taken me to a restaurant." "Always do it after lunch." "Always tell them no after lunch." ""No," after lunch." "And I said, "I'm not interested, I won't do it."" "Then they took me to John Goldstone the other producer, to his house to see the set." "He said, "Please, Pat, come and see, come and just have a look."" "Then they showed me the pink room, the laboratory and then all the drawings of the costumes and whatever, whatever." "And I said, "I can't wait." "I'll begin tomorrow."" "I didn't mind about the song." "Yeah, I didn't know anything about that until this moment in time." "I've blamed you for it ever since." "I got along to the studio and they'd done the backing tracks." "The crew had done the backing tracks at Olympic Studios, and they said..." "I love my name dripping like that." " Sorry." " It was a bit of a trip." "They said, "I want you to sing the opening title song because you're the author of this show."" "I said, "What do you mean, as a guide vocal for Pat?"" "They went, "No, we want you to sing it." And so I did." "Until that moment in time, I had no idea that..." "Ladies and gentlemen, or whoever's listening." "Today is the first time this has been revealed in how many years?" " I think 25 years." " In all these years I have begrudged you taking my song." "And all these years I've begrudged you for having that delightful mouth." " Thank you." " I mean, look, it's a wonderful mouth." "One wonders, you know." "Well, wonders, just wonders, really." "Has your dentist seen this movie?" "Yes, I want to give her a plug." "Veronica Morris." "Because she's been keeping my teeth in great order." "This is marvelous." "Veronica will be so pleased." "This mouth, of course, is Brian Thomson's idea." "It was the Man Ray photograph of the mouth in the sky." "Was it a photograph?" "I thought it was a painting." " It's a photograph." " It's a photo, Lips Over Hollywood." "Is that what it is?" "It's over the Hollywood sign, a mouth." " Man Ray." " And this was the first mouth." "I'd never seen a mouth..." "The Rolling Stones got a mouth after that didn't they?" "They got a mouth after." "Not a mouth before." " A bit mouthy." " A bit mouthy." "It was wonderful when they asked me to do this because they asked me to do this on the very last day of the film." "Jim Sharman came up to me, "It's a wrap." "Finished."" "He came up and said, "We've got an idea about this mouth." "Will you do it?"" "They painted all your skin black." "Yes, and I went out to the L Street Studios." "Your timing is perfect." "Your lip-synch is fantastic." "Yes, well, I'm good at that." "And I sort of know how you do things." "Ramon Gow, look, the hairdresser." " We'll talk about Ramon." " Yes, he's wonderful." "He kept us happy." "And Pierre La Roche." "Pierre did the makeup, didn't he?" "Pierre La Roche, oh, God." "He did Bowie's makeup for what was that Bowie thing?" "You know, when he had the makeup." "When did Bowie never have makeup?" " All right, well Bowie..." " Ziggy Stardust." "Yes, it was fantastic." "I thought, "Guy La Roche will give me the most fantastic face."" "And he looked at me and gave me no bones, no nothing." " Pierre La Roche." " Pierre, right." "I beg your pardon, Pierre La Roche." "I was so shocked that he just said:" ""Right, we're going to totally whiten the face." And what?" " Here we are." " We fade into the cross there." "Fade into the cross, yeah." "And down the old..." "Now, this is interesting, because this was just a façade." "There's a little room on stilts behind that door, a tiny little room." "There's darling Henry Woolf." "He's such a darling friend." "Perry Bedden's in the front here." "Perry was the boyfriend of Brian Thomson at the time." "That little girl there, where is she?" "She was the photographer, went out with Prince Andrew." " Koo Stark." " Koo Stark, yeah, she's in the back." "She's there." "I was going to point to the screen but that doesn't make a difference." " Gaye Brown, there's Pierre." " And Henry." "Henry was in my house the other evening." "He teaches in Saskatchewan." "He's doing a Harold Pinter play." "That's right." "He was in the first play that Pinter wrote." "He made him write it, actually." " Well, there they are." " There's our Brad." "Ouch, that hurt." "There she is, Susan Sarandon." "We didn't know these people when they arrived, just their background." "He had been doing Grease on Broadway." "Great dancer, great legs." "It was wonderful." "There's my wife jumping up and down, my ex-wife." "Is it?" "Kimi?" " In that little plaid." " And her lovely handbag." " With the bangs." " Yes." "Gorgeous." "This is Rufus Thomas, I think, driving the car." "There he is." "He was with the Living Theater for some years." "He came over and choreographed Jesus Christ Superstar in its first British incarnation." "Gosh." " Such class we had in this." " We were all very groovy." "I don't remember those two." "There's us in the background being American Gothic." "It was freezing cold that day." "I'll never talk about the cold again on this film." "I remember walking to that set the first day we'd smoked something rather exotic." " I'd never smoked before." " No." "Richard led me into really bad ways." " It was difficult clinging to reality." " It was wonderful." "I loved it." " There we go." " There's our signs." " In the graveyard." " Denton." "Home of happiness." ""Damn it, Janet."" "She looked pretty." "Sue Blane did wonderful costumes." "They've really hung on." "Even though we do the stage show 20..." "Well, it's longer than 25 years for the stage show but we still use Sue's design." "She reinvents them and it's still the same kind of look." "I must say she's stunning." "At the time I demand that Sue Blane invented punk and this film invented punk." "Down the road was Vivian Westwood with a shop called Sex." "She thought she started it." "No, she copied us from up the road." "We were on-stage at the time." "There's a certain truth in that." "I think we were a precursor of Malcolm McClaren and Vivian." "But then again you see, Coco Chanel said:" ""Those who think they're original have no sense of history."" "Look at that heart there." "I want you to see that." "When we go back and rub it out, I think it's the same heart." "I thought it was a different one." "There's a boom microphone shadow that we'll see soon." " Why are you pointing out the faults?" " Why not?" "That's what the fans do." " Do they?" " Yeah." "Look, she dropped it." "What a shame." "Wasn't she meant to?" "Obviously not." "Now this is interesting." "This room, we could only afford this end and the other end." "We didn't have any sides to that room, so we could only shoot looking this way or the other way." "We couldn't pan around because there were no sides to this room." "Not enough money." "So there we go, you see, walking towards camera without background." "Good heavens." "And walking away from camera to there, but there were no sides." "They were very good." "When you consider we'd..." "We were like a family, and they came in and they joined in so easily, so quickly." "I find them astonishing." "I don't want to go into detail, but it's a very small coffin, isn't it?" " One does wonder." " Wonder what?" "You know, there could have been a rabbit in there probably." "Every day was a surprise to me on Rocky Horror." "I never knew what was going to happen next." "I didn't know what American Gothic was till I saw the painting on the hall a few days later." "I thought, "Why am I dressed like this?"" " You're not familiar with it?" " No!" "There we are, three good-looking people." "Those opticals worked rather good." "They really were mechanically derived by..." "But today, of course, you have optical wipes and all sorts of things with video." "There's dear Charles Gray, who's departed from us recently." " Yes, Charlie." " And I loved it when you said to me it would be wonderful if we were Charles Gray and Ava Gardner." "We could visit each other." "They were great friends." "They lived next door to each other." "They've both gone, so we've got to now move into the same street." "They're probably in a similar street in the sky somewhere doing the same things." "And Sinatra phoning every day." " Yeah, did Sinatra...?" " Phone Ava every day." " Oh, did he?" " Yeah." "There's the lovely Jonathan Adams..." " ...who was our original narrator." " Brilliant." "He plays Dr. Scott in the movie." "And Brian Thomson used to put in hidden detail so there would be stuff inside that file." "There might have even been stuff in those files behind him." "That was relative but nobody was ever going to see." "Well, to me, Brian Thomson's set was astonishing." "It was unbelievable." "I've just been to see The King And I and the set that he did for that." " I adored it." " It's good, is it?" " Pity about the person." " Sumptuous." "No, no." " I didn't say anything." " No, nothing." " Never heard of dickey bird there." " Yeah." "Charming person." "Will be remembered in my will, actually." "Look at this nice car there, that Woody." "What was the tape playing, was it Nixon?" "Nixon's..." "I don't like that speech being played, actually." "It locks the movie into a time frame." "I thought it was clever." "And so that late November evening wasn't in time with Nixon's speech." "And, you know, there's lots of things." "See the motorcyclists?" "Those people who played Transylvanians were on those motorbikes." "They were to go to the studio this very night dress up, put all their Transylvanian gear on and then put motorbike leathers on as well." " Then go out on motorbikes to..." " They didn't drive them themselves." "No, they had motorcyclists." "They paid pinion passengers." "And as Ramon Gow said, you know..." "I said, "Why are they doing this?" "It could be anybody in the dark."" "He said, "Could be a gorilla with a pipe, love." "Gorilla with a pipe."" "I'll never forget seeing the Transylvanians." "They were rehearsing in a room in the house." "We didn't have Transylvanians in the play." "Suddenly this door was open..." "And I don't want to sound politically non-correct but it was so freaky because they were freaks." " Sorry." " As indeed we all are." " No, speak for yourself." " It's true." "In the amazement of tall, small, fat, thin, you know." "You lost the sense of norm, sense of center?" "Yes, and I saw all these people doing the "Time Warp."" "And I almost collapsed, I couldn't believe it." "I didn't know they were going to be in this." "I didn't know there was a cast of Transylvanians." "When I went into the room and David Toguri was rehearsing them and Barry Bostwick and Susan Sarandon was standing amongst these people with hugely different physiques." "Physically so varied." "I'll never work again for saying, "freak."" "It seemed to me that Susan and Barry who most people would say are good-looking human beings seemed just as freakish." " The standard had disappeared." " Yes, right." "And that was interesting." "When we did the show, this line, "Over at the Frankenstein place" made me relax, because my sphincter was tight." "The sweat on my brow was thick." " My heart was pumping." " Was it?" "Because I was behind the screens, wondering if anyone would like it or were they gonna go sit there going..." "Oh, dear Richard!" "And we all sang that line:" ""Over at the Frankenstein place, there's a light," and they laughed." "The minute they laughed I went, "Oh, it's all right."" "Everything will be all right." "If they're laughing at that, they'll laugh at the rest." " It'll all be okay." " Oh, God." "Now this is where, of course, Susan began to get the flu." "We'd been shooting and late..." "Please don't talk about her damn flu anymore." "That's all she ever discusses, much as I love her." " Excuse me." " Sorry." "Here we are, gorilla with a pipe, you see." "There's all Transylvanians." "All in, with their tailcoats underneath all that, and why?" " Who's that beauty in the window?" " This is my favorite bit." "It was very dangerous going up there." " There was no floor." " Floors are all gone." "This house was owned by someone who lived in France." " It was the only reason..." " They'd taken lead off the ceiling." "...they put money into it." "Now it's a hotel which is a bit of a shame." "And they built buildings around it." "Yeah, but they have Rocky Horror weddings and honeymoons." "It is the top window." "I thought it was the second window." "Okay." "I thought it was a completely different window." " We've gone quiet." " We have really." "It was so Gothic and so wonderful, the lightning strike in there." "It's a good-looking movie." "Jim Sharman's first major film as a director." "He pulled this together well." "Who was our lighting cameraman?" "Suschitzky?" "Peter Suschitzky, the prince of darkness." "I loved you for that." "I remember we weren't allowed to see the rushes." "I don't know if you ever knew that." "I didn't want to see them." "If you're acting, you shouldn't." "Rubbish!" "I have to see them." "And Little Nell and I used to sneak in and see them all the time." "We did see the prince of darkness' work." "Yeah, it's good, isn't it?" "He's a good man." "And he's Woolf's son." "This house, of course, has been used in many, many films." "The Innocence." "You probably remember it with Debra Carr and Peter Windgold." " We talked about him earlier on." " Same house." "Oh, right." "Well, it's the Hammer..." "Hammer Studios." "It was a cheap and easy location." "Just across the paddock." "That's another thing you with your wonderful English accent or your "Hello."" "Then I came from Transylvania, so I had a German accent." "Tim Curry had a Charring Cross Road, Kensington accent." " Knightsbridge." " Knightsbridge." "And Nellie had her Australian." "And it was so peculiar because nobody ever, ever discussed where they came from." "It made no difference." "Nobody's asked any questions about it." "We had, of course, the..." "Also another thing that was very useful for the Americans, Barry and Susan." "We had that week and a half, two weeks at rehearsing on a taped floor in an old abandoned hotel in Earl's Court." "The White House Hotel." "I'll never forget that day Meat Loaf walked in." "I'd never met Meat Loaf before and I thought, "Who's that?"" "And then he was strutting his stuff, I mean, very Texan." " How the hell are you?" " How the hell are you, hon?" "And suddenly that voice sang "Hot Patootie" and I swear there was a chandelier in the room and it did crash." "It's amazing how we didn't see you, yet we can see you now." "It's amazing how we don't see you until we see you." "That's because the director didn't tell me what to bloody do." "It was ridiculous and I didn't dare upstage that moment." "You were very good." "No, to me that's very bad." "No, I thought that was marvelous." "A very theatrical moment." "That clock is an interesting thing." "That is a real skeleton of the husband of the woman who had the clock made." " No!" " It was a beautifully made..." "Is that where I should have put Robert?" " You could have." " In the clock?" "You could've done that." "There." "What a naughty pair." "Yes, well this is where the reception area is in the hotel." "It's all very, very down market." "Not very nice at all." "But it is, it's all right." "That's when that boy takes off." "There we are." "That's the sign." "We were talking about that today." "When we were rehearsing we had to find a sign that made us different." "That we had something between us." "That's kind of a handshake or..." "Our Transylvanian sign." "Go forth and prosper or whatever." "That was our alien sign." "There's my wife in the middle, ex-wife, I should say, Kimi." "Yes, with her wonderful hair." "Mother of my child." " Beautiful lioness." " Lucky boy." "There were all these actors." " There's Christopher Biggins." " Eating as usual." " No, eating a doughnut, I think it was." " Eating the donut." "Stuffing the cream down his face." "I won't go down that road with you." " Which road?" " Your hair looks fabulous." "Ramon Gow, the wonderful hairdresser who was so lazy." "All he did was spray a can of red stuff on me every day." "We didn't even dye it." "I had black hair." "He sprayed it red with this terrible stuff every day." "Ramon is no longer with us." "A lovely man." "I liked Ramon." "He'd work with everybody." "And nothing can ever be the same" "You're spaced out on sensation" "Like you're under sedation" "Let's do the time warp again" "Let's do the time warp again" "I was walking down the street Just having a think" "When a snake of a guy Gave me an evil wink" "He shook-a me up He took me by surprise" "He had a pickup truck And the devil's eyes" " There's Little Nell." " Little Nellie." "Her father was a famous Australian journalist who talked about family and used to write in the Australian newspaper." "Used to refer to Nell as Little Nell." "That's how she got that nomenclature." "Oh, I see." "Jim Sharman found her on the streets of London." "She used to, how do you put it, busk." "She was doing a bit of busking, of housekeeping." "She did a bit of housekeeping." "I love this, there we go." "She was cleaning for Jim when we were casting for the stage production." "In rehearsal she used to say, "Nell's the name, tapping's the game."" " There she goes." " There she goes." "I love this bit because Magenta gets very pissed off with her here." "She's a recent mother." "She said on a recent interview, "Motherhood is wonderful." "I love being a mother."" "I love it, her talking about being a mother now." "I was a mother then." "I had the baby in the bath." "Yeah, but poor old Nellie had been in a terrible car accident about 10 or 15 years ago." "Was walking around for several weeks, getting these blinding headaches." "They took her to the hospital and discovered her neck was broken." "She'd been walking around for weeks with a broken neck." " I feel as if mine's broken now." " She is a great survivor." "This was Fran Fullenwider who is no longer with us." "She's in heaven too." "She wrote me a wonderful letter when my husband died." " Well, recently?" " Recently." "Yeah, I'm sorry about that, Fran." "She was in trouble one day and Jim Sharman was very cross and crotchety." "Well, he had to get the film done." " How long did it take to make?" " Six weeks." "I stopped the show." "I remember your dear wife saying to me:" ""I stopped the show because Fran had a coughing fit and couldn't go on," and he got very cross with her." "So I sort of called a strike." "I didn't remember that, but it's been reminded." " I'm proud of that." " You were very ballsy in those days." "Fair." "I was fair." " I thought you were a Reb?" " Honorable." " There's the beauty." " There he is." "Mr. Curry." "When we were casting this originally we had a young man, Jonathan Kramer, American." "Who's also in heaven." "Who isn't in heaven?" "We're lucky to be here." "Maybe we'd be luckier to be up there." "And Jonathan was gonna do this part and Tim came along to audition for us." "I'm afraid poor old Jonathan never had a chance against this guy." "I heard Tim came in and said, "Let's rip it up." Did he say that?" "I heard that." " But I knew Tim before this." " Me too." "Because I was working at the Royal Court Theatre." "I was playing much bigger parts than him." "He was rather in awe of me, I believe." "I'm sorry, but he did." "He was very kind and admiring." "Well, I knew him in Hair because we were in it together." "I always thought he was the most beautiful thing on stage." "When Jim and I were talking about putting the show on at the Royal I looked for musclemen." "I thought that'd be a nice thing to do." "Go around to gyms and see if I could find a muscleman to play Rocky." "What a lovely way to spend your day." "And I went into a little gym in one of those streets." "George Street." "Or Blanford Street off..." " Who was there?" " Hang on." "Hang on, Baker Street, Blanford Street, George Street." "I went into this gym and there was a very sweaty man." "Ugly and sweaty man who'd been pumping iron." "There was this young man who was living next door above a place called the Speed Queen." " The laundrette." " This is a laundromat." "And I thought that's very nice." "He asked what I was doing." " I told him." " Was he in the gym?" "No, he lived in the flat, the apartment above the Speed Queen." "So why did he speak to you?" "Oh, because he knew you from Hair." "I'd just been doing some casting and the next thing, he auditioned for us." " Oh, God, another accident." " Well, kind of." "Yes, wonderful." "When I auditioned for you singing a Jessie Matthews song." "Yeah, "Over My Shoulder" days." "And told you not to play the piano because the music would put me off." "Which it surely would've done, because I can't play the piano." "I said to Richard Hartley." " He didn't shave under his arms." " What you mean?" "He didn't shave under his arms." " Him and Julia Roberts." " He's a real hussy." "A right little hussy." "Well, he's a boy." "I know lots of boys that shave under their arms." "There's that darling, little, small person." "Little one." "You're not allowed to say those words." "Oh, no, P.C., okay." "Little one person." "Brad!" "We'll play along for now and pull out the aces when the time is right." "Slowly, slowly." "It's too nice a job to rush." "Hi, my name is Brad Majors and this is my fiancée, Janet Weiss." "You are...?" "You are very lucky to be invited up to Frank's laboratory." "I was always undressing people." "All I did was take bandages off people, undressing them." " I was so fed up." " That's what you were employed for." "A bloody domestic." "It was such hard work." "Now this was ginger ale, as far as I remember." "I know, I loved this." "That's what shocked me." "Everything shocked me." "I never knew that was going to happen." "When did the lift get stuck?" "Now that only goes up to the first level." "It's on a hydraulic." "It doesn't actually go any further than just past the floor." "The floors are "accidenty" types." "This was a minstrel gallery which I believe is gone now." "And there was a lovely, beautiful glazed roof above that." "Now, we're coming up out of the floor of another shot." " There we go." " Clever." "Quite." "This was in a pit." "This is where the swimming pool was." "See, that elevator goes down into a hole." "That hole was a part of a tank which is later used for the swimming pool." "I wasn't around for pool days." "Well, we had to shoot all this and get all this in the can so we could tear the set down." "And then build the swimming pool set." " In the same spot." " I don't know." "Surrounded by geniuses." "Magenta." "Columbia." "Go and assist Riff Raff." "I will entertain..." "Now he tells me to go and pull the cloths off the thingy." "I've never worked so hard." "I don't do this work at home." "No." "Dear Tim, because he'd played this on a lot of stages before he did it." "I just think his performance is fantastic." "Terrific." "He also understood the camera, which was very nice." "None of us did." "This was the first movie for us." "First major movie for all of us." " He did understand the camera." " How?" "It's his first movie." "First movie for me." "I'd never done a movie before." " Neither did he." " That's what I'm saying." "I see, he understood the camera." "I thought you meant better than us." " I think he did to some extent." " Excuse me, he was on it more." "Yeah, but he also understood the lens, how to play the lens somehow or other." "All I understood was how to lurk." "Look at us lurking." "They gagged you in the back there." "Thank God." "The only time she was quiet in six weeks." "I thought they were fetching, those masks." "There was something very surreal about those strange masks." "I don't know where they came from." "They were just given to you and you were told to wear them?" "I just did everything I was told." "I didn't know what was happening." "It's why you've always been a favorite with me." " I'm not a stupid person." " No, of course you're not." " I can play Lady Macbeth, easily." " What's the capital of France?" "What a fool." "The answer was there all the time." "It took a small accident to make it happen." " An accident!" " Accident!" "That's how I discovered the secret." "That elusive ingredient." "That spark that is the breath of life." "Yes." "I have that knowledge." "I hold the secret to life itself!" "Well, that's what I felt, you see." "For me the pink room went on forever." "I know it's brilliant, but it went on." "Well, when you're working in a small area..." " ...it's time-consuming." " Especially when it's pink." "When you're doing cover shots and you've got to do a different angle a different POV, it becomes very time-consuming." "Very time-consuming." "I have photographs from the film of me on the floor, out of it, you know." "Just from hanging about." "Nobody ever knew what the hoopla was in the States." " Hoopla." " Hoopla, Janet!" " Nobody knew what that meant." " I know." " What does it mean?" " It's, like, a circus term." "Hoopla!" " With the whip." " I know..." " ...but what does it actually mean?" " Hoopla." "It means attention, applause." "Applause." "If you're saying to the horse or something: "Hoopla!"" " Regardez, regardez." " Regardez?" "I don't know." "When we did Shock Treatment, nobody understood." " It's like a cymbal crash in Variety." " That'll do." "Yes." "No, it is not." "Sort of like the slapstick they used to use." " It was an accent of..." " Hoopla!" "Yeah, something of that nature." "Oh, Brad!" "It's all right, Janet." "This was wonderful too." "I watched this movie last night." "I've seen it a few times, but I really appreciated it." "I remember this." "This was torture because it was the first time Tim undid the thingamajigs." "Jim Sharman was screaming, "Faster, go, do it more, do it more!"" "We didn't have a second chance at it." " It had to work, I think." " That's right." "It did because they were going to put the colors into the water." "Although this is artificially induced, as you can see those colors were going to stay in the water." "There was one take on this." "They were to be the colors of the rainbow." "They were supposed to be violet and indigo and red and green and whatever those five colors..." "That's what it was supposed to be." "It's interesting that we get a bandaged body, a skeleton." "Another bandaged body." "That's okay." "Movie works." "Oh, how dramatic." " It was." " Lovely Peter Hinwood." "Very charming man." " Wonderful." "He hadn't acted before..." " Or since." "Or since?" "And was a model." "And he, for me he's so sympathetic and vulnerable." "And I think he's wonderful in it." "I think he's wonderful." "Antique dealer now." "Of course, in those days you couldn't get actors who had a build." " Really?" "They were all wasted." " Everyone's pumping iron now." "I was amazed you could find a gym in those days." "In those days everybody wanted to look done in, you know like they'd been drinking with Peter O'Toole and your late husband Robert around the bar for a long time because that was part of the gig, you know." "Francis Bacon and all of them." "At the Salisbury, yes." "This was very difficult, wasn't it?" "Trying to time this." "Trying to get all this off in time." " It wasn't going to happen again." " It was very difficult." "I remember that day." "I choose to forget it." "I don't remember carrying Tim like that." "I don't remember." "I remember the warmth around the back of my neck." "But I must say you really did get kicked around in this, didn't you?" " You took a few knocks." " I did." "There's Annabel Leventon..." " ...from Hair." " Yeah." "And her director." "Pamela Obermeyer behind her." "Christopher Biggins again." "Now that was a great little dance there." "I came up with that little dance step." " Did you?" " In seconds." "I don't know how." "I've never done it since." "I could have killed you." "I could hardly do it." "And Toguri kept telling me I kept falling over." "It was that wiggling on one foot." "I had high heels." " We did it easily and quickly." " Did you make it up?" "In seconds." " Because it's not from the time warp." " Nope." "But did we just follow you?" "Obviously." "Nell went, "Well, that looks good."" "I didn't know where it came from because I'm a terrible dancer and we did it in seconds." "And it was all over." "But it looked rather good, that little leg movement." "Yes." "I love this bit. "He's okay."" "When we did it in rehearsal, I gave Nellie a note for this." "She'd hate the word "note," and she goes, "He's okay!" and changed it from how she'd done it before." "And Tim Curry was so shocked that he really did react to it." "He was furious with her because she completely changed the tone of it." "And I loved it because it wasn't what he was expecting." "So his fury was real." "I didn't make him for you!" "He carries the Charles Atlas seal of approval." "There's Lindsay." "I went and did a Rocky Horror evening for her." "She's the one with the big hair?" "Yes." "An evening for her art center to raise some money." "I mean, all these ideas were wonderful." "These props and presents and it was glorious." "I find it wonderful just to watch it all happening." "Maybe I was watching this day's filming, I'm not sure." "I remember when the hobbyhorse comes it was a..." " This moment is rather risqué." " Very naughty." "For the time." "When is it?" "1973?" "That was '74." " The whole thing was a bit risqué." " I suppose it was." "It must have been." " Not that I ever thought so..." " "In olden days a glimpse of stocking."" "No, what shocked me was when they went to bed." "In the play, they didn't actually go to bed." " No." " No." "So when that happened, I thought, "Oh, dear." "I don't know if I like this bit."" " So I got a bit prudish then." " Oh, did you?" "Yes." "Because I thought we were in a nice straight, clean show." "I didn't know there was lots of hanky-panky going on." "When he pushes this horse, you know, this thing that he's..." "I was brilliant at jumping that at school." "I got prizes." " Oh, really?" " Gymnastics." " A plastic covered one like that?" " No, brown." "Go on." "Watch while he pushes it away." "You'll see it takes a little journey of its own." " Oh, yes." " It was on some wires." "I never understood this." "Why nobody pushed that button, nobody opened it." "Of course, the double for Meat Loaf is nowhere." "He was smaller than me and they padded him up." " There. it was cut to Meat Loaf there." " Yeah." "But the double came off the thing." "He was fine, the motorcyclist and stuntman." "He was fine." " I know he was fine but he..." " He fell off?" " The bike came off the ramp." " Did it?" "I don't remember that." "Oh, yes." "And he wasn't fine." "He's never been heard of since." " I didn't know that." " Yes." "It did." "It came off." "I so loved it when we did the 15th convention at Fox Studios in Hollywood." "Meat Loaf sang "Hot Patootie," and I dragged Nell out, broken neck or not." "I made her do the dance with him." "And they did it perfectly." "It was lovely." "They hadn't forgotten it." " Marvelous party." " Marvelous party." "Marvelous party." " It's nice there." " Isn't Nell a card?" "I went to a wonderful party." " But nobody asked me to play." " With Nunu and Nanu and Maude." " With whom?" " I think it was Nunu, Nanu and Maude." "I couldn't be sure about that." "Went to a marvelous party." "Why did they put a wig on him?" "I thought his own hair was equally effective." " I forgot what his hair was like then." " He had long ponytail." " Yeah, it was lovely." " Blond-y, mousy." "Yes, he was gorgeous." "There's you and I grooving in the freezer." " Back in the bloody freezer." " Yeah." "Keeping ourselves fresh." "While they're having all the fun." "This was lovely." "I loved this." "This was better than the Tiller Girls." "Now here we go." "We've got a swap from Meat Loaf to double, stuntman." "A little tiny jump." "Now, Meat Loaf..." "There we go." "A different human being altogether." "Yes, that's the one who went off the edge with that..." "Different human being." "Now, you'll notice after the killing of Eddie when Frank or Tim says, "He had no muscle."" " Yeah." " And we had to shoot that again." "It was just after we'd finished." "We'd wrapped but hadn't gotten the shot." "It didn't work, so we had to go back and we got some pink tiles and they shot him against just these pink tiles." " Goodness." " You'll see in a minute." "You see?" "I think it worked." "All this is while we were shooting." "Yeah." "Oh, that's sweet." "There." "That shot there was done after we'd finished filming." " Oh, I see." " I went back and got that little bit." "And put bits of the set together around behind him." "Yeah." " But it cuts in quite nicely." " Yes, it works." "We're looking as if we didn't like him." "Well, but I didn't." "You see?" "I didn't." "Well, he was always beating the shit out of you." "I decided Riff didn't like him very much and was resentful for several reasons." "We were giving him his time." "Envy." "Envy is a big one, of course." " That's a good one." " Yeah." "Good at playing that." "What was mine?" "Because he was attractive and he got all the fans and had all the witty lines." "And there was me, inarticulate and ugly with a hump." "I never thought of that." "Because I thought you were beautiful." " It's very nice of you to say." " Sorry." "I never saw you as that." "I guess that does rather say something about you there." " Oh, Lord." "Oh, dear." " I don't remember pulling the curtain." " Do you?" " Yeah." " I don't remember." " Standing there like toy soldiers." " There's Rufus Collins in the back." " Lovely man." "From the Living Theater." "It's amazing how many of these people are no longer with us since this filming." "After today, I assume two more might go." " We'll be there." " We'll be there?" "We're following along quite quickly." "What's on that book?" "One gets very interested then..." " Yes, you do." "You do." " ...in Brian Thomson's stuff." " Yes, in the hidden detail." " The wonderful eagle." "Is it an eagle?" "What's all this?" "Weird Fantasy, I think, is the title of that particular magazine." "Of course, all his stuff was shot in a day." "The marvelous thing is about the dining room scene I read about in a magazine." "I didn't realize why which we'll see when we come to it." "I'll talk about the set of the dining room scene." "Okay, I'll bear that in mind." "Just write that down." "Write that down." "I'll remember." "That what I think it is that you've rolled up over there?" "I never liked the way you took so much pleasure in looking at that." " What?" " In a voyeuristic sense." "Oh, do you see that..." "Making those noises." "I got rather embarrassed." " Oh, really?" " Yes." "See that thing around the TV screen?" "I still have that." " Where?" " In my shed." "I've got it in my shed." " In your shed?" " It's in my wee shed." "What do you do with it?" "It's in the back of the house." "The kids have shown and dressed in it." " My son Linus would like it." " The one with all the pull handles?" "Just the square that goes around the TV screen and the handle on it." "It's lost a couple of its rivets as one does over the years." "This was the most brilliant idea." "Wasn't it?" "Well, absolutely." "Because we needed no kind of real close-ups of flesh or anything." "But where did it come from?" "It came from the stage." "They didn't have to take their clothes off." "But who invented this idea?" "It's theatrical in its innocence and I think it probably had to do with Jim Sharman's prudery as well." " But it worked." " Jim and me, the old prudes." "It works for us because nobody is coerced into doing anything overt." "All the salaciousness disappears." "Yeah, it's brilliant, and it just seems like happy fun time." " Don't you think?" " It's divorced, somehow or another." "No clothes come off." "We know it's very rude." "They gave me a bloody mop." "This is interesting." "We saw that little scene little look between the two of us in "Sweet Transvestite."" "Now again you see, subtext is..." "Darling, Lillian Gish has got nothing on me in silent movies." "This is the most silent movie I made." "I'm glad I'm talking now." "And I had to do something, you know." "So I've never made so many eyes or faces." "There are many directors that would be so locked into the main narrative..." " ...the linear narrative..." " There wasn't any." "...that they'd get lost on the little subtext." "We might shoot them, but they'd end up on the cutting-room floor." " These little moments." " There isn't a line spoken here." "This whole scene is silent." "I'm in a silent movie." " We're secondary players." " No, no." "We're not here because the director has allowed us some breathing space." "But we would be secondary players in many films." "They'd excise us from the whole thing." "Then we wouldn't be seen." "Then they would've had no film." "All they would have had is the linear narrative text." " Just the top line of..." " It would've been a bit thin." "Yes, as it is with many films." "Look at this." "This is our moment." "Well, it's a moment, another moment." "I wouldn't say it's our moment." "I never knew this was going on." "You know that I never thought I had anything to do with incest." "Then I thought, "What's going on here?" It's our Dracula kiss." "I never had in my mind incest with my brother." "Because we made the sign together and then the fans decided that it was an incestuous thing." "They call it an "elbow fuck."" " Did they?" " Sorry." "Yes." " I'm rather shocked." " Sorry, but that's what they call it." "An elbow..." "What's another word for fuck?" "Do we need one?" "You said that people might have to be cut." "What can you do..." "What do you do when you copulate?" "Copulate." "An elbow copulation." "Thank you." "That's what they all think we're doing." "And I say, "No, we're making our Transylvanian sign, you idiots!"" "When you bit my neck, they thought, "He's up to no good."" "It's the chemistry between us." "Well, I had none at all!" "I was just doing my job." "And you were my brother, doing your work." "Doing his sister." "Not in my game, no." "I think that was always present in my mind as..." "It might have been in yours." "It wasn't in mine." "I think it works." "Because the innocence of you seems like indifference." "Cool indifference to the whole kind of idea, going:" ""Oh, yes." "Go on there, Riff Raff, if you want to." "Oh, dear." "Are you all right now?" "Are you happy now?" "Well, off you go." "Toddle off."" "I wish I'd known." "What's happening here?" "Where's Brad?" "Where's anybody?" "Oh, poor boy." "Running through the rain, chased by Alsatians." "Magenta's let loose the dogs." "Brad, my darling, how could I have done this to you?" "Now this song, here, was supposed to be intercut with..." "Not song." "This action, this dialogue was supposed to be intercut with Brad's song." " Oh, yes." " "Once in a While."" ""Once in a While," which is wonderful." " That cut, from there to there." " Yeah." " That cut, from there to there." " Yeah." "I think they work, cinematically, very well." "But Brad's song was supposed to go between those cuts." "They were to cut in between the song." "But the song was cut out of the piece." "Why, I'm not quite sure." "I love Brad on the bed having a cigarette." "I think it's brilliant." "One of the things about the show afterwards, was that it needed cuts." "But I think that was possibly because they didn't understand it." "Fox, you know, green-lighted this movie." "They gave us the green light, the go-ahead." "And then they changed the head of Fox." "And Alan Ladd, Jr., came in to be the head of Fox." "He didn't want to do this movie." "However, it was..." "That's when he was with Gareth Wiggin, Georgia Brown's husband." "...just too late for them to say no." " Oh, good Lord!" " They turned up on the set." "Alan Ladd, Jr., turned up and came down when we were working out of Bray Studios." "He didn't want this to happen, but it was too late." "By the time we finished the movie, he was no longer the head of Fox." "So it didn't make any difference, because it was another person there." " What a game of chance." " Then this was released." "They didn't know who the target audience was." "Who was gonna go and see this movie?" "Tell us about it, Janet." "I loved Nellie painting my toes." "Who thought that up?" "Maybe Jim Sharman directed that." "You two, probably." "Nellie and I sat in a very cold caravan and talked about what we were going to do in our room." "And this idea, I think, is very sexy and very naughty." "I think it's lovely, very intimate." "Two kids playing together." " That's what it's like?" " Yeah." "And her PJs were always so sweet." "Her pajamas..." "She's blowing my toes dry!" "Yeah, but it's not sexual." "It's that you're two little chums." " Yes." " You're the same person, almost." "You were the same person." "You weren't supposed to be two people when I wrote it." " Oh." " You were the same person." "Oh, I see." "Jim Sharman said, "I've got Marianne Faithfull."" "I know." ""She's really interested in being in the show."" "And could we write a part for her?" "I said, "No, because I'm not that clever writing in another part." "What I might do is split the girl's part into two pieces."" "And so, Magenta and Columbia were split into two different people." "Who was Marianne going to play?" "Why didn't she play the one person?" " I don't know." "Don't ask." " Okay." "Because I think we had already said yes to Little Nell." "Then Marianne, I said, "So, I've done it." "I've worked it out where the two parts are split up into..." "I have the one part split into two."" "And, he went, "Oh, yeah, well, Marianne's gone." "Marianne's gone to India."" "I know." "Was I ever so pleased she went on her trip." "And then it was you." "So, I think the two of you playing together like that it is something symbiotic as if they're like two little twins there." "Why do your veins stick out?" "Remember, people, when you're hanging over the top of your loved one the veins in your forehead stick out." "Look at that, excuse me?" " I didn't look like that." " We don't want that." "Look, Peter's are there as well." "Just bear it in mind." "That's what we look like when we're doing it." " Yeah, when you're on top." " Oh, God." " That's why we have our eyes closed." " I think, "Are the lights out?"" "Candlelight is very flattering, isn't it?" " Now, he actually whipped me here." " Yeah, he did." " He caught me..." " That hurt!" "He caught me several times." "But I didn't complain, because I was a method actor." "A look of concern from young Barry there." "I thought he was cross-eyed." "Dear Barry, I met him at a convention in America and he said to me:" ""Pat, you really thought I was Brad, didn't you?" And I said yes." " Well, I did." " Did you?" "He was then." "He's actually great fun now." "He plays the mayor in something." " He's gray-haired and marvelous." " Spin City." "Something that is brilliant." "But he was so serious and he was in love with Susan." "And they were having a bad time, I think." "I think Barry's got a good sense of humor." "He's the only person that out of all of the kind of major players that weren't really connected with us..." " ...in an organic sense." " That's right." "That still maintains a sense of humor about the piece." "He turns up and he laughs about being Brad." "Brad gets called asshole on a regular basis and he puts up with it." "Barry is wonderful and he's supported the show fantastically." "Every convention I've met him at, I've adored him." "But when he was doing this..." "Maybe he was a method actor and became Brad." "I just thought he was wonderful." "I thought they were both such great players to come in and join an already, kind of, happy unit that we were." "That must be very intimidating." "I love this." "This was such a surprise to me." "Oh, yeah." "On the wires." "You'll see the carpet flip up in a moment as he comes around, somewhere." "That was terribly funny and I love us girls having..." " That's great." " ...you know..." "Actually, if you think about the mechanics, it's pretty damn good." "It's damn good." "This is the reason!" "There was no way to get out of the lab." "They had no entrance into the laboratory." " They had no door." " They realized, what do we do?" " How do we get through this?" " Come through the wall!" " I know." "They forgot to build a door." " They did." "That's one of those brilliant things." "Oh, it's wonderful." "Doctor von Scott." "I wish he didn't use a German accent." "I would've preferred an American one." "Really?" "Right." "Did you mind my German accent?" "No, you were fine." "But the von Scott one..." "What I wanted..." " Let's use the German." " ...was a surprise." "But he says, "Or should I say, Doctor von Scott?"..." " ...with a German accent." " Couldn't Jim or you have told him?" "I had problems in certain areas..." "But he's highly intelligent, Jonathan Adams." "He lives in a house that looks over a cemetery..." " Called Tomb View." " Tomb View." " Yes." " Very nice." "He's a fine artist of fine art, if that makes sense." " Of collages." " Was that a tautology?" "Tautology." "Good word." " Janet!" " Dr. Scott!" " Janet!" " Brad!" "I don't know whose idea it was to repeat this section but it works." "I've got to tell you something amazing!" "I've forgotten his name." "Alan Sharp!" "Got it out." "He's a script writer in Hollywood, comes from Scotland." "He's a massive script writer." "There goes that gong!" "And, when we get to it when the statues are made, you know, of Little Nell." "He bought Little Nell and she was in his back garden in L.A." " No." " Yes." "Alan Sharp bought Little Nell's body." "Her statue." "With the plinths." "I never understood the plinths." "I didn't understand why we didn't make them disappear." "I wish I'd become a body." "Those are the most beautiful glass, lead-lighted doors." "I want to know where they are." "The first time I saw them I wanted them." "Can I just say why the table is laid like this?" "It's because we're Transylvanians." "We didn't know how to give a dinner." "This was Brian Thomson's idea." "We've got all these peculiar spoons and pee-pee bottles from the hospital and jam jars and whatever because we didn't know how to entertain." "I rather love that idea." "I said, "Would you set this, would you serve the stuff?"" "I went, "I ain't gonna, I don't know how to do it." "So, I'll throw it, I'll dribble it and I don't give a monkey's what I do."" "Nobody had had a conversation about that." " But it was quite anarchic, wasn't it?" " Yes." " If I you think about it." " Yes." "A toast." "To absent friends." "To absent friends." "But he's got his beer mug, you know." "You see?" " Yes, he's got his stein." " Yes." "Happy birthday to you" "Happy birthday to you" "Happy birthday, dear Rocky" " Happy birthday to you" " Shall we?" "I think Peter Hinwood's acting here, this simple acting, is wonderful." " He broke my heart." " It's naturalistic and lovely." "No ego involved in it, which is delightful." "She's pretty sexy, that girl on the right there." "I could give her the one." "Show how she chews her food." "What happened to her?" "Of course, you know, I didn't..." "There are those beautiful doors to slam behind them." "They're gone." " Gone?" " They were stolen." "They're no longer in that hotel." "This was "Eddie's Teddy."" "When we were doing the stage show this song wasn't in it and the show was so short, thank God you were told to write another song." "You came back with this the next day." "I thought, "We've got to learn another song." "This is awful."" "And then when we sang it, we used to sing it..." "Then when they sang it in here they went..." " That was a different..." " Different thing." "I think the film was better." "Singing it on stage used to bore me to death." "That picked it up slightly." "Mr. Hartley again." "The lovely Mr. Hartley." "This is Whistler's Mother, of course, with Meat Loaf playing her." "Where are those doors today..." "Give over about them!" "I'll find you doors like that." "Somebody's got them somewhere and they're worth something." "All right." "I'll find your doors." "They were very special." "That's why they disappeared." "That's why they disappeared." "There he is." "A low-down, cheap little punk." " We didn't know..." " It was very touching." " ...what was under the table." " No, we didn't." " That wasn't told to anybody." " I love this." "This, here, is the Baby Doll cot." "Her bed is from the film Baby Doll." "I love that touch." "So we didn't know what was under the table." "It's kind of fascinating, because the horror that goes around the response is kind of real, isn't it?" "All the reactions when we were eating at times looked as if we knew that we were eating him." " And I didn't know." " No." " Nobody knew." " No, nobody knew." "And then, Tim Curry knew he was going to have to pull off that thing." "Hoopla!" "There's another hoopla." "If you're pulling that, you would shout hoopla, okay?" "He had to do that in one, otherwise you would reset the table." "And then, there was old Meat under the table." "Skeleton." "But we didn't know." "And the reactions." "Well, I know mine." "I was just amazed." "This film was like some other world unfolding to me." "It was like I was in the story that was happening." "That's strange when you talk about that." "Because it was that surreal quality to the movie that was very disturbing." "We'd been doing the show for months before we made the movie." "Yes." "It ran for 1:35 when it was slow, 1:30 when it was on time and 1:25 when it was really hiking along." "Yep." "And when we went to watch the movie, which was 90 minutes exactly and it seemed so long and slow and so gently unfolding." "You go, "How can that happen?"" "We've got more dialogue in the movie." "We've got extra things in the movie." "How can we actually add these longueurs and yet still be running at an hour 30?" " I don't understand it." " I see." "There was a surreal, dreamlike quality a very dreamlike quality to Rocky Horror, the movie which was never present in Rocky Horror, the stage show." "No, because I'd done the stage show again 21 years later which goes so fast you think you're going to die from it." "So yes, it is extraordinary." "What are we saying?" "The movie's the same length." "It's exactly a 90-minute movie." "That's what Jim wanted to make." "Good God." "And it's so visual." "We've got added dialogue, added scenes and the things always pad out when you're making the movie." "Things on stage have to be much more succinct." "Oh, right." "So we've hit a point." "It seemed so much slower." "It added a dreamlike quality to it." "Which I think you were talking about earlier on." "So we're back in the pink room now." " In the lab." " In the lab with no door." "No in or out." "It would've been shot before that dinner sequence, wouldn't it?" "And we're gonna see them put through the transducer." "They're gonna send us to the planet?" "Planet Schmanet Janet?" "Yes." "And they all had to do..." "What I wanted to see happen here was kind of a ray of light come around them and have them dissolve and disappear." "That's the way I wanted it." "So their bodies were in a state of flux." "I see." "That's what I wanted." "When that reference was made, somewhere between an entrance and exit." " They decided to put them into..." " Madame Tussaud." "...in these strange kind of plaster casts." "They had to find a position which..." "They had to get molded in it first." " It's happened to me." " A day of agony." "I've done that myself in the play." " They had to do that position." " It's quite nice." "It's very nice, but they're on a plinth." "Why are they on a plinth?" "They've got to find this position that they're gonna end up in." "It's fine there." "But she's on a plinth." "Where'd that plinth come from?" " That little base." "Where is it from?" " Because they had to make it stand." "Yes, because the statue had to stand." " Did the transducer make a base too?" " Oh, I see." " I just think it's a bit tacky." " A wee bit tacky, that." "A wee bit tacky." "I love this bit." "Nellie and I practiced in the cold caravan." "She said, "How am I gonna play this scene?"" "She never knew if her nipple would go through that rip." " Yes, she did!" " Did she?" "Oh, yes, she did." "She was always a flasher, that girl." "And my girlfriend's written some books on that." "That's an interesting case." "Oh, which girlfriend's that?" "Dr. Estela Welldon." "She deals with female flashers." "Sorry." "What's the name of this book?" "And the publisher?" "Mother, Madonna, Whore." " Is it still in print?" " Yep." " At popular prices?" " Yes!" "It'll teach you a thing or two." "Rather nice, that outfit Tim's wearing." " Beautiful." " That's rather nice." "The little top's rather nice." "I'd get one of those myself, actually." "I'm getting a bit, you know?" "No, no." "Shut up." "I don't care about your clothes." "Can we look at this?" "This is the slowest burn you've ever seen, okay?" "That is the longest take of a look that killed Tim Curry." " Yeah." " It killed him." "I'm sorry." "And your breasts were rather arresting." " I was never interested in those." " No, but we were as viewers." "Oh, Lord, I never thought of that." " Did you not?" " No." " Oh, my God." " I felt totally dressed." "You thought it was your acting that got the attention?" "Yes!" "You poor, sad little fool." "That was the slowest burn." "You could count that one." "Lillian Gish couldn't have done that." "That's our elbow copulating, so the fans think." "Elbow connection." "Elbow creek." "There's a Pearl, opposed to Jacobs." "Could you fill me in on Jacob's Creek?" "It's wine from Australia." "Oh, is this Freudian?" "It's not a little bit like Barrassa Pearl." "It's bloody nice, that Barrassa Pearl." "Queen Adelaide, that's pretty good too." "There's old Charlie." "Darling Charlie." "Charlie." "He's fabulous, Charlie." "I met a friend of his, a colleague of his..." "I wouldn't have thought he had one." "Oh, yes." "He did." " Apart from Ava?" " Ava." "Whom I adored." "I became a movie star because of Ava Gardner." "I don't mean a movie star, an actress." "Actor, I think, if you're gonna be P.C." "No, no, no." "I am very ashamed of any actress who calls herself an actor." " Why?" " Dorothy Parker said:" ""Scratch an actor and you'll find an actress underneath."" "Well, it certainly worked in my case, but how about you?" "I'm very proud to be an actress." "I'd never wish to be an actor." " But pride comes before the fall, Pat." " No, no, no." "Actors are such different creatures to actresses." " Are they?" " Yes, totally." "I thought this goo, the gunk that Tim put on his face was a good move." "It was so brilliant, and I didn't know what it was about." "I saw him and thought, "What's he doing?"" "He was getting ready for the floor show." "You've met those people that do that kind of stuff?" "Well, one does." "Sorry?" "That was a brilliant idea." "I don't know whose it was." "When he came out looking like that, I didn't know why." "But then..." "You think I'm slow, don't you?" "No, would I?" "I think this floor show's wonderful, and Sue Blane's costumes, stunning." "I mean, this is before Michael Jackson, you know?" "Look at the sleeves on these things." "The one with the feather." "It's extraordinary, what she was thinking of." "And I have to say, I've met lawyers, I've met everyone I've been on trains, I've been everywhere and they've all done it." "Exactly." "They've all fishnet." "But will they get us off next time we're up before the big?" "I doubt it very much." "I have to say, on the night in question I was wearing fishnets." " And I had an orange in my mouth." " Yes." "No, but seriously, I can't tell you the people I've met." "They talk to me, and if it's ever mentioned they say they've done it." "Strange." "What did you do, Richard?" "I've released people from their kind of male/female polarized parameters." "But English males have been involved in that." "It's very frightening for the Brad character lost in no-man's-land because as a result of the changes." "Here, Janet, you see this is where the worm has turned and everything's changed around." "She gets her kind of strength and her power." "The hunter-gatherer male gets lost because she's now got her power." "I see." "So that's what's happened today, actually." "Truthfully, yeah. it does mirror today's society and I think that's one reason why the show has some longevity." "Good Lord." " This tower behind us?" " Yeah." "We'll see Frank and Rocky, after their death, climb up that." "But of course it's gonna be stunt doubles." "And they came along, and the guy that was playing the Frank part had no idea that he had to dress up like Tim." "Oh, Lord!" "And it was a wonderful moment, a wonderful day..." "Oh, no!" " ...where the guy looked at the stunt..." " The stuntman!" "...and then went, "I'll go and get ready now."" "And then had to dress like that." "And he was extra butch because he didn't want anyone to think..." " That he was like that." " Yeah." "And the more butch he got, the campier it all became." "That was a fab moment in time." "I'd like to go back." "If I had a time machine, I'd like to spend half an hour there watching that." "Just for that joy." "And here we are, talking about the RKO tower here." "Originally, of course, we wanted the Twentieth Century Fox tower." " Why didn't we?" " Fox wouldn't allow us to do it." "Though it was a Fox movie, they wouldn't allow us to do it." "And the head of Fox now will probably say:" ""You know, what's going on here?"" "Decisions were made, and it was camp, you know?" "Excuse me, this was really risqué." "Even in Los Angeles today, gay men are not allowed to expose themselves too much, you know?" "We're very lucky." "Actually, it's the British gays in Los Angeles today, isn't it?" "Ian McKellen..." "Madonna's chum." " Rupert..." " Rupert, yes." "...Everett." "It's a British-driven kind of acceptance." " Yes." " An opening up, you know?" "Yeah, but the British have always been very free about that." "Nice, that little touch of the Leonardo touch of God on the bottom of the swimming pool." "And it was "A million-dollar shot" as Lou said when those clouds disappear and the smoke disappears and we come down on the overhead shot of Tim." "That was the million-dollar shot." "They go in of course." "In they go to the water and they have to come out." "Did Jim Sharman, our director, cut when they go back into the song again?" " No, he didn't." "They come out..." " Gasping!" " And they had to dance." " See?" "Susan was very sick." "You don't want to have that conversation..." "No, I will have it." "...about her illness here at the time." " But she was very, very sick now." " Yeah." "Here she is, thrown once again into water on a cold winter's evening to come out of this water into the cold studio." "And sing and dance and..." " I know it was hard, but by God..." " And it was slippery." "I know, and it's all been hard, but it's been worth it." "And it's given so much pleasure to so many people." "You're allowed to die." "You're allowed to die." "You must die for one's art." "My husband died playing King Lear." "Four hours, 20 minutes." "He went through the pissing rain on the heath and he was a dying man." "So I'm sorry." "There you go." "And King Lear died playing your husband?" "That's quite interesting." "Here they come out of the water here." "There's a cut there." "You would've thought that was a tight moment to allow them." "But no." "They could have emptied the pool." "But they'd come out of the water and they're still wet there." "They were slipping everywhere." "But what's the point?" "Maybe no time." "There was no time, but they were trying to hang on to some semblance of dance, some semblance of movement." "Some semblance of choreography." "And if you were dying from ill health, as well, you know?" " But they're doing it!" " Yes, they are." "They're called troupers." "Troupers!" "They're there." "And here we are." " This is our moment." " Ha, ha." " With my Ramon Gow hairdo." " It was a brilliant idea." "It was my idea to put in the head." "That was your idea." "You had to match my bloody hairdo!" "I have a coat hanger in the top of my head." "But look what I've got, you know?" "It had to go somewhere." "We'd just stand for hours." "What was that smoke?" "Oil, wasn't it?" "Oh, yeah." " It was killing, that was." " Yeah." " Oh, she's off." " Yes, you're leaving." "I'm pressing a button." " Are you?" " The sonic beam." "I'll never forgive you, because as you go down with that gun you'll see you put it in my face." "Oh, no." "I didn't, did I?" "How dreadful!" "I had no idea." "Oh, yeah." "It's funny this day because we have the extras that bleed in." "These are people that never turned up, just for the day for this shot." "They bleed in and out, because it's Frank's fantasy, isn't it?" "There was a new idea, and it's brilliant." "They got the gig because they owned the evening dress." "And I must admit to this, I knew a few because I had been an extra." " Oh, no!" " Yes." "I can't believe that!" "I knew them, because I had done extra work with them." "Oh, dear." "You've got to start somewhere." "They bring their scrapbooks along, don't they?" " I didn't know about that." " Oh, they do." "And they say:" "I wasn't a serious extra." ""Would you come over here, Richard?" "You'll love this." "Look at this, look at this."" "They bring in scrapbooks and they've got photos of them on different gigs." "Oh, look, look at this!" "Now I hated this because Jim Sharman said to me, "Yawn at that moment."" "He said, "Yawn, yawn." I thought he was being so brilliant." "No, he was talking to Jan, that guy from Norway behind you." "No, no, no." ""Jan, Jan."" "He said, "Yawn at him." I thought, "I'm so ashamed, I can't."" "I wouldn't yawn at any actor or anyone doing anything." "It's so rude." "And Tim was being so brilliant." "This song, it broke my heart." "Judy Garland." "That's a Judy Garland shot." "Cards for sorrow, cards for pain." "Jim said, "Yawn." I thought, "No, I can't." "I really hate to do that."" "It's such a rude thing to do to any actor on the stage because it's sort of rather like you're bored, you know?" "And I mean, not in acting, but within a performance too." "So I was very ashamed of doing that." "I wrote this song in about 1971, I think." "I was living in Fulham." "A nice thing about writing Rocky was I had a lot of songs in the drawer and this was one of them." "It meant nothing." "I used to bore the arse off people singing my songs." "You still do." "No, you don't!" "You don't!" "And they used to go home going, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah."" "When this happened, they said:" ""Oh, yes, I was there." "I heard that song in the early days."" "It's strange how things change, isn't it?" " Don't be bitter, dear." " I'm not at all bitter." " One mustn't be." " Sweet as..." " Look at the feathers in his hair." " ..." "lemon." "And they disappear and they fade in his dreams." "How sentimental." "The deck chairs are a great idea." "Nice thought." "Yep." "End of the pier." "And of course we have this ray gun which again, equals the American Gothic pitchfork at the beginning." "Which you threw at the side." "You threw it down." "Pitched away." "I didn't get that, I'm terribly sorry." "I've been around for how long?" "I have that pitchfork." "It doesn't have that thing off the top of it, that little peak." "But I have the handle and the rest of it." "The amazing tie-up for Mr. Thomson is extraordinary, isn't it?" "I mean, in the work and the ideas." "Yeah." "It's almost a noose." "I beg your pardon?" "It's almost what?" "What?" "You said, "tie-up."" " A noose." "Oh, a noose!" "I love it." " It was a knotty..." " A knotty conundrum." " I thought you were being Greek." "Yes, quite Greek." "The twitch in the eyes." "They have that." " The gun..." " Nellie dead." "You got pretty nasty, kid." "This is very primitive overlay of special effects here." "That, for instance." "Today, again, we could do that with computers so easily." "And they made poor old Tim climb those ropes." "He shouldn't have done that." "No." "Insurance-wise." "I remember experienced men saying, "This shouldn't be happening." "He shouldn't be doing that." "No, no, no." "Not your principal actor, he shouldn't be doing that."" "I bet he had a great time doing it, though." "He was into it by then." "There are the real performers there." "It really is very primitive, isn't it?" "The special effects." " It adds something to it." " It's divine." " I love it." " It does add something to it." "Then of course this is Fay Wray, isn't it?" "It's King Kong?" "That's King Kong and that's why I love it's RKO." "The stunt double." "RKO made King Kong, didn't they?" "Did they?" "RKO made a lot of science fiction movies the whole studio went through a huge change." "I love this." "I was given these new lines." "I love it!" "My most beloved sister should've tipped it for you with that relationship between the two of us, but still it didn't." "I was so late, and you're such a sulky git, you know." " They never liked me!" " No, they didn't." "It was wonderful." "And to think I had a coat hanger in my head there." "It worked." "It did." "I looked like a question mark, the human question mark." "But our underwear looks nice." "What's that extra little band around the top of your leg?" " I can't work that one out." " It's more interesting than yours." "I can see the top of your stocking there." "But what's the one in the middle?" "What's that?" " What's that all about?" " I think it's..." "I don't know." "How can I remember who dressed me?" "You dressed yourself, obviously." "With no bloody dressers?" "Oh, my darling sister." "What is that extra bit between your knickers and your stockings?" "I have no idea." "Oh, I don't know." "But it's all for you, my darling, and the stars." "Something up there anyway in the Milky Way." "Stop it." "Look, I can see them." "I can feel the stars shining down on us." "And what about this?" "Excuse me, are we talking about camp acting here or not?" "Great stuff." " There's nothing camp about me." " It's brilliant." "It is brilliant." "We should've got Oscars for that, mate." " This was nice, the cut-backs to the..." " I love that." " I saw several endings." "Have you?" " No." "I have." "And it doesn't necessarily go back to that." "This is interesting." "We couldn't afford a special effects shot so when this goes up you will see the same house behind." " You see the house behind?" " No." "Through there?" "And this was cut from a lot of the original versions." "This song was cut." "We cut straight to the rated verse." "We cut Brad and Janet's verses of this song and went straight to the narrator's verse on the original movie." " And it made no sense whatsoever." " I see." "But we needed this." "There was a very long intro that Richard Hartley devised for this song." "I suggested they cut straight to Brad's verse." "They cut straight to narrator's verse which cut both Brad and Janet's verse, which was rather stupid because it was kind of nice to have these two verses." "They make the whole thing tie up, the whole song tie up." " And they went round and round." " So had you much control over this?" "No, not really." "But I had my five pennies' worth." "Okay." "I was allowed to have a voice but was no longer, you know, no more important than anybody else's." "This was interesting, this went into an overhead shot and the spin shot, which was the same overhead shot, probably exactly the same place we did the overhead shot of Tim in the pool." "And that spin that turns into the globe which is Mr. Sharman again." "I wrote this song in 1970, or '71." "I was in Nottingham, I was doing Hair." "We were on tour with the show and I wrote this song and I had no idea..." "I had been to see, I remember I went to see Arturo Ui." "I was meant to be in that with Simon Keller." "On we go." "Leonard Rossiter." "Leonard Rossiter." "I went to see Leonard Rossiter on a wet Wednesday afternoon at the Saville Theatre." "And it was about a 100 people in a theater designed to take 2000 people." "And he played it as if it was first night, opening night..." "How divine." "...and showed us the way that it works and the way you are here today I will perform for you." "And he did the last segment of that show, that closing speech... so beautifully and so brilliantly that I wrote that song off that speech." ""You gotta watch out for fascism, because the bitch is living still."" "And that entire song was written off that premise written off that speech." "It's been a charming little sit-down here, watching this movie." "Lots of these players are no longer with us and lots of them will go on to do bigger and greater things." "It was a charming moment in time, wasn't it, to have been part of that?" "It's been one of the greatest the best things I've ever done." "And I've done lots of things." "But for me, this is the most glorious thing I've ever done." "To me, it's been the most uplifting..." "Of course it gave me the name Pat Quinn that has buried me because I'm associated with Rocky Horror forever." "So people don't take it very seriously because of that." "However, I would never not have done it." "It's just been a total delight for me." "I've loved being in Rocky Horror." "I think it's time to take our clothes off and have a bit of rock and roll now." "Okay." "English" " US" " Commentary"