"Growing up on Staten Island, Barbara and I had often heard the legend of Cropsey." "For the kids in our neighborhood, Cropsey was the escaped mental patient who lived in the tunnels beneath the old, abandoned Willowbrook mental institution..." "Who would come out late at night and snatch children off the streets." "Although we didn't know each other as children, Barbara and I had both shared versions of the" "Cropsey legend as it filtered through our separate neighborhoods and seeped into our collective fears." "Sometimes Cropsey had a hook for a hand." "Other times he wielded a bloody ax." "But it didn't matter." "Cropsey was out there, lurking in the shadows, waiting to get us." "We're... we're gonna get her back." "Okay." "Later, as teenagers, we assumed Cropsey was just an urban legend, a cautionary tale used to keep us out of those buildings... to stop us from doing all those things that teenagers like to do." "But all that changed the summer little Jennifer disappeared." "That was the summer all the kids from Staten Island discovered that their urban legend..." "Was real." "Staten Island is one of the five boroughs of New York City." "For the past century, the Island was mostly just farmland and woods..." "That was, until they built the" "Verrazano bridge in '64." "Now it's home to nearly half a million people." "Before the Verrazano bridge was built, that's all it was." "It was just this Island, this forgotten Island." "All the children of Brooklyn, you know, wanted their own home, and everybody wants land." "You have a dog, you let him out the backyard, just like, you know, "father knows best."" "It can be pretty quiet." "I mean, even though Manhattan is, like, right across the water, it's definitely a different life out here." "If you travel around sometimes, people would say, "oh, right, that's where the largest garbage dump was." "And, you know, rumor has it you could see it from outer space."" "So one big garbage dump." "It was the least-populated, most heavily wooded borough." "From what I understand, like, this is a big dumping ground for mob bodies." "Someone needs to be disposed of, it's like, "let's bring them to" "Staten Island."" "It's like there's almost too many spaces to go to be isolated and alone and do whatever you want." "So if you have a bad idea in your head, you can do it there." "Across the middle of the" "Island lies a section of ancient forest known as the greenbelt." "Bordering this forest is a boy scout camp and an old tuberculosis ward." "As kids, we used to roam around these grounds, trying to scare each other with stories about" "Cropsey." "Is that pouch camp over to the left?" "No, that's JCC camp over to the left." "And right here... this is sea view, the T.B. Wards." "Our camp counselors would lead us down this path, and they'd come out of the buildings and scare us." "You know, this is where we thought that Cropsey lived... in the basements down in here and in these other buildings." "And, you know, we used to walk through here, and you'd find beds and papers of people who had died here." "So, you know, it kind of made sense to us." ""Cropsey," for some reason, became the generic term for a maniac in boy scout camps up and down the Hudson river region of" "New York state." "So it would've made perfect sense for a story about a maniac who was hiding out in the woods and who abducted and killed little children to be called Cropsey." "First learned about Cropsey in summer camp." "He was a doctor." "He was supposed to have a hook." "With a knife about this big." "And he was an ax-wielding madman." "The wife was killed." "He was being chased or taunted." "He wanted kids." "And he would find them and..." "He would hack you up." "...chop 'em up." ""Don't go behind the Sherwood bunks." "Cropsey's out there."" ""Make sure you get off at the mall." "Don't continue to go any further."" ""don't go down by the lake at night." "Cropsey's down there."" ""No, don't go near willowbrook park." "Willowbrook park is dangerous."" "There are many communities that have a subterranean history, a house where unspeakable things are said to have happened, an institution where people were..." "Segregated from the rest of society." "We got pictures of sea view." "These are like overall, bird's-eye view of, you know, the hospital." "This included the tuberculosis wards." "This included tuberculosis wards?" "Yes." "And also on this property here were a hospital for contagious diseases, and then it got the morgue and the cemetery." "Well, this was across the street in the farm colony, which was like a different part of the hospital." "They called it the "poor farm."" "Okay, here we have the" "Halloran hospital in willowbrook." "Right." "It was Halloran, and then it became the willowbrook state school." "Exactly." "Willowbrook was strictly for the mentally ill?" "Back in 1972, the willowbrook state school was the subject of a famous exposé by a young reporter looking for his big break." "I first heard of this big place with the pretty-sounding name because of a call I received from a member of the willowbrook staff, a" "Dr. Michael Wilkins." "The doctor invited me to see the conditions he was talking about, so unannounced and unexpected by the school administration, we toured building number six." "The doctor had warned me that it would be bad." "It was horrible." "There was one attendant for perhaps 50 severely and profoundly retarded children." "Lying on the floor naked and smeared with their own feces, they were making a pitiful sound, a kind of mournful wail that it's impossible for me to forget." "This is what it looked like." "This is what it sounded like." "But how can I tell you about the way it smelled?" "It smelled of filth, it smelled of disease, and it smelled of death." "Despite Geraldo's report, it still took more than 10 years before authorities began shutting down willowbrook." "Many patients were transferred to group homes, but others were left to fend for themselves." "There are those who believe that some patients, out of confusion and habit, returned to the 365 acres of willowbrook to roam the abandoned buildings and live in the tunnel system that lay underneath." "Out of this, our own version of the Cropsey legend was born." "At what point, though, in your life did you start to realize, "hey, maybe Cropsey is real?"" "When kids started disappearing from Staten Island." "You're watching channel 7, eyewitness news." "Hi, guys." "Listen." "We need all the help we can to help find Jennifer." "The relentless search for a 12-year-old girl with down syndrome continues today as it has for the last three weeks, with the hope that this will be the day they find" "Jennifer Schweiger." "She's very friendly, very happy." "She's a doll." "Very loving." "You know, that's a down syndrome child's nature." "Instead of lying in the sun today, I figured I'd come out and just help." "Could be one of our own children, you know, that was kidnapped or, you know, molested anyways." "Maybe it's Jennifer's added vulnerability of having down syndrome or possibly the close-knit feelings of" "Staten Islanders at having one of their children missing, but every day, more and more volunteers turn out, searching through the woods and hitting the streets, hoping to put an end to the Schweiger family ordeal." "So many people turned out for this search." "Everybody felt that..." "This was one of their own that had disappeared." "They would show up at the firehouse with flashlights, ready to go into willowbrook, willing to go into the forest, into the tunnels underneath." "There was one family in particular, Donna Cutugno, and some of her friends and neighbors who had stepped forward to organize searches." "Today, we're concentrating on the police went in there yesterday, and we're just continuing where the police left off." "This is what willowbrook looked like when we were in here." "I'll never forget the first time" "I went into one of these buildings." "It was really blood-curdling, because here was the first time" "I was actually in these buildings I heard these horrible stories about." "And as you walk through, completely empty." "You still hear, you feel it." "You could almost feel the children's presence there or the adults' presence there." "And it's something you never get used to." "When you're looking, make sure you look down on the ground." "Look up in the trees." "Anything you find, the police can get a lot of information from it." "In our searching, what we found was a number of people that actually lived here when willowbrook was up and running and in full swing tend to come back here." "So there was a whole..." "Underground of people that still lived here, even though all the buildings were closed, and" "Andre Rand was definitely one of them." "Andre Rand worked as an orderly at the willowbrook state school from" "1966 to 1968." "For years he lived in numerous makeshift campsites in the woods surrounding willowbrook." "He was also the lead suspect in the Jennifer Schweiger case." "There was two witnesses that stated that they saw her walking along the street with a middle-aged gentleman, and he had a female green bike with a basket on the front of it." "The week before, I was in Shoprite, and I saw Rand." "I recognized him from a prior case." "He purchased baby food, and he got on a green female bike with a basket on the front." "At that point, bam, I said," ""it's Andre." "I saw him last week."" "Rand was immediately brought in and questioned in the girl's disappearance but released for lack of evidence." "After four weeks of surveillance in hopes of finding Jennifer alive, he was arrested." "Rand had been familiar to police after pleading guilty to sexual misconduct with a 9-year-old girl back in 1969... a crime which he denied." "Good afternoon." "Here's what's happening." "A homeless man, 43-year-old" "Andre Rand, is under arrest." "He is charged with the kidnapping of 12-year-old" "the suspect was picked up last night here at the church of the god within." "Police had questioned him as early as the second day into the investigation, and after four weeks of a making a case against the man, they finally decided they had enough to get a conviction." "I've never seen a perp walk like that." "Watching him coming out looking like he had lost his mind further angered people in the community." "That image forced a lot of people to say, "that is the killer." "That man is not right." "Look at him there, drooling."" "And it certainly caused me to ask a lot of questions." "Who is Andre Rand?" "Did they get a crazy man and just say he's the guy, or did they really have good evidence against him that would stick in a court?" "I used to teach the" "Andre Rand story in my journalism class." "Coming down the steps of the courthouse with a headline," ""drifter arrested."" "Well, what does that mean?" "It means guilty, right?" "Whether he is or not, I don't know the whole story either." "But it's a lot easier to do it that way than to say, "you know what?" "It might be somebody on your block."" ""It might be somebody you work with."" "Did you ever think that anybody else was involved?" "Well, we always had to think there was somebody else until we could just rule it out." "You know, you always have to keep that in the back of your mind." "And plus, by going by our witnesses, if you consider our witnesses credible, it was only" "Andre and Jennifer." "There was no other person." "Of course, when we had him for the 26 hours, where was she?" "Did he leave her with somebody else?" "With Rand's arrest, the search for Jennifer turned desperate." "Rumors were spreading that someone, maybe even one of" "Rand's friends, was hiding" "Jennifer and moving her late at night through the tunnels underneath willowbrook." "I want my daughter." "I want the man to talk." "I want him just to tell us where" "Jennifer is." "Despite constant threats by state officials to stay away from willowbrook, Donna and the friends of Jennifer kept going" "this area had been covered thousands of times by volunteers, by police, by dogs." "But in that time, one gentleman came across an area that he noticed had Clay balls up on top, like someone patted down." "And then this was all, you know, pushed back over with the trees." "It was just a little spot that he noticed the Clay balls." "And that's what made us go back, or made him insist that we go and George showed us the location that he thought..." "Needed to be looked at." "The smell... as soon as you start digging..." "We saw her toes." "And everybody stopped." "Father Henry gave her last rites." "And they took us out of the woods." "Ernie, a grisly discovery back here tonight, back here in the 384 acres of the" "Staten Island developmental center... an arm and a leg sticking out from a shallow grave." "They are eerie shadows, police and others at the scene where the body of 12-year-old" "Jennifer Lynn Schweiger tonight was found." "Police were preventing anyone from getting this close to the scene." "Even Jennifer's father is kept away." "Yeah, Jennifer's father's here." "He says you gave him permission to come through?" "Unless they can walk on water, they stay outside." "There are two other girls who, over the last couple of years, have turned up missing here on Staten Island." "They will be searching this area in the next few days to see what they can find." "As one police officer told us tonight, god knows what they can find here." "The discovery of Jennifer's body only 150 yards from Rand's campsite confirmed everyone's worst nightmare." "Residents were outraged, and they wanted justice." "The district attorney, however, had no physical evidence tying" "Rand with Jennifer's disappearance." "The case was relying almost entirely on eyewitness testimony, which most experts agree is often unreliable." "After the largest criminal trial in Staten Island history, Rand was convicted of kidnapping." "But the murder charge was dismissed after jurors couldn't reach a verdict." "Rand was sentenced 25 years to life and would be eligible for parole in 2008." "Staten Islanders like to find easy scapegoats, but not the real ones." "And we don't want to think too deeply about what this means for our society." "When you look at a place like" "Staten Island, it was viewed as a dumping ground for all kinds of things." "The fresh kills landfill, which took all the city's garbage," "8 million people's garbage, dumped in Staten Island." "The farm colony was a place where people went who had tuberculosis." "Willowbrook warehoused thousands of people and left them there." "It was a dumping ground." "Why would you dump them in" "Staten Island?" "'Cause that's where you dump things." "So you dump kids." "What's the difference?" "You're dumping garbage, you're dumping kids to Staten Island." "Doesn't make any difference, right?" "Look." "Trays from the institution." "They're everywhere." "It's more about the undercurrent that cannot be tamed by building or organization." "You put a bunch of people that are mentally ill, and you put a bunch of people that are physically ill, and you bury people here and there, and you dump garbage, and you poison the environment." "And then you sit around, and you scratch your head, and you wonder, "gee, why are things going wrong?"" "Or, "why is there a chill cast over this Staten Island, this wonderful place?"" "Because it's about those undercurrents, those things that had come before." "As children, we were deluded by our parents' belief that" "Staten Island was such a safe place to grow up." "But in reality, every community has a seedy underside." "Every suburbia has its secrets." "We only discovered our own because of what happened with" "Jennifer..." "And then with all the other children." "After Donna Cutugno and her team found the body of" "Jennifer Schweiger, the police started connecting the dots." "They looked at other missing children from Staten Island." "Eventually, they focused in on four different cases spanning over 15 years..." "Tiahease Jackson, a 10-year-old girl with learning disabilities who disappeared four years before Jennifer." "Hank Gafforio, 21 but with the" "I.Q. Of a 15-year-old, disappeared three years before" "Jennifer." "7-year-old Holly Ann Hughes, who went missing six years before" "and finally Alice Pereira, last seen 1972, 15 years before" "to this day, none of their bodies have ever been found." "They are missing-person cases that have occurred on" "Staten Island that have not been resolved." "As kids, we never thought we'd learn the real story behind" "instead, Rand was sent to prison, and the stories just faded away." "But now, 20 years later, we may get the chance to uncover the truth behind our urban legend." "Because Andre Rand..." "Is back." "Andre Rand scared a generation of parents and children on Staten Island." "Convicted in the disappearance of one child in the 1980s, he is once again on trial for kidnapping." "After spending 17 years in prison, Andre Rand has returned to Staten Island to stand trial for the kidnapping of" "disappeared two decades earlier." "Her body has never been found." "Can you tell us if you ever met Holly Ann Hughes?" "Any comment whatsoever, please." "I love my sister very much." "It's been 20 years." "Something" "I've had to carry for an incredibly long time." "And I miss her so much." "You know, it's, like, nice to see that finally she's being treated like she's a person and not like a lost wallet, you know?" "That's pretty much like how it's been for like the last 20 years." "Staten Island tonight, the story of another missing child." "7-year-old Holly Hughes disappeared on Wednesday." "So far, no one has any idea what might have happened to her." "She's very outgoing, very friendly." "Very adorable, I think, you know." "We just want you to bring" "Holly home... today." "And we're..." "We're looking for her, and we're going to get her back." "This is Eddie, Holly Ann, and" "Sean." "She was a very warm little girl." "Typical 7-year-old." "You know, I mean, cute as a button." "You know, that's probably one of the last things that you ever think about that could possibly happen, that somebody would take your daughter." "The mother and I weren't conversing at the time in a proper way because we were having a little custody problem there during that separation period." "I remember just searching all night long." "I mean everywhere... the train trestle, park Avenue... anywhere" "I could possibly think of where she might be." "I was getting very strange phone calls from anonymous people that they knew where Holly Ann was." "Just crazy things, you know?" "Unbelievable things." "But no one ever mentioned" "Andre Rand?" "No." "Rand was interviewed and released back in 1981 after being spotted on Holly Ann's street the day she disappeared." "Now, 20 years later, the D.A." "Finally believes he has enough evidence to get a conviction." "However, there is another issue that concerns local residents." "Rand will be up for parole in less than four years, which means he may walk the streets once again." "We are here today in support for Holly Ann Hughes' family." "The common thread that we share with the family is Andre Rand, the alleged..." "Bad guy." "Does it make you angry that this guy has been out there since Holly Ann's disappearance, and then your daughter was taken?" "I think that in reality," "Jennifer was the one that probably brought this all to life for the simple reason she was found, number one, and it opened the case for" "Holly Ann Hughes." "Cases like this never go it's like the whole community was just thrown into chaos over this." "You know, here's this guy, allegedly, going around, picking off these kids." "I mean, there are all these rumors that fly about the Island about this guy, and the media, you know, have painted him as an absolute fucking monster." "And he may very well be." "There's no physical or scientific evidence that I know of in this case." "There's no body." "They haven't found her." "It's all circumstantial." "They've gone." "They've dug up graves." "They've gone to his old neighborhood." "They searched his car." "There's nothing that's come up." "So I'm completely confident that, you know, he didn't do so why do you think the D.A." "Is pursuing this case?" "Mr. Murphy just recently retired." "This was one of his probably last, biggest investigations, this Rand case, and perhaps he wanted to put this baby to rest before he left office." "I remember the inadequacies of the witness' statements back in 1981 and 1982." "Some of them were out-and-out alcoholics who just didn't have clear recollections of what was going on from day to day, but in recovery, their memories were improved." "That the Andre Rand story is being told is simply an example of what can be done if people remain vigilant, remain concerned about what's going on around them." "15 years after uncovering the body of Jennifer Schweiger," "Donna Cutugno still digs around the grounds of the old willowbrook state school, hoping to find evidence of the other" "so, who do you think we're looking for?" "We're looking for Holly and" "Alice and the rest of the do you think they're all buried here?" "Well, I don't know about" "Alice." "I don't really feel that she's" "I don't know where she would be." "But I think that..." "The rest of them, including" "Hank, I think may be here." "Yeah." "I can imagine how other parents... even if your kid's gone for an hour, I can imagine how they must feel, you know, not knowing." "Goes back to that original feeling." "Could've been my children." "They're the most precious thing in my life, and no one's gonna take my kids away from me." "Hi." "Yeah, this is Devin's room." "He loves "star wars" and worships George Lucas." "A lot of reasons why my children were always involved in these things was 'cause I was so afraid to leave them." "The whole Rand thing." "Suppose he got out on a technicality." "Would he come after me?" "You know, that's always in the back of my mind, till this day." "For years, Rand had been shuffled around various New York state prisons, where he shared cellblocks with the likes of" "David Berkowitz, a.k.a." "Son of Sam, and child killer" "Joel Steinberg." "In the past few weeks, he had been moved to Rikers Island for the upcoming trial." "We had sent him letters trying to arrange an interview but got no response." "Then on the day Barb and I decided to visit him unannounced, we received this letter." "What do you think it says?" "He doesn't really speak to anyone other than his attorney, and for years he hasn't spoken to the press." "Nobody really knows anything about him." "He puts our phone number at the top, and he writes, "person answering the call should be" "'Joshua.' if you want to receive bulk mailings from Mr. Rand over the next few months, it will need to be done by sending Rand a legal mailing address." "This is not so much as correspondence, but more in the form of documentation." "Note, Rand was informed by his attorney to accept only legal visits." "Rand will not speak to you in person anytime soon because of possible subpoena."" "What he's saying is, "I'll communicate with you, as long as we play by the rules."" "Unlike many other states, New York doesn't allow cameras in the courtroom, and so we would be forced to interview many witnesses out on the street or get our information secondhand." "17 years, we never stopped talking about it." "It's something that's affected everybody that I know from" "Staten Island, certainly." "Everybody knew about" "Andre Rand." "But not the extent." "In the back of their minds, they didn't really think they were ever gonna catch him." "There's no reason for him to exist anywhere else, you know, other than jail." "There's that gigantic fear, you know, wondering whether or not the bogeyman is gonna come get their kids." "So, this building is where Holly Ann Hughes used to live." "Andre Rand's aunt used to live on the second floor of that building, as well." "Holly was outside playing one evening, and Andre Rand was here to visit." "And then got into his" "Volkswagen." "Apparently then Holly walked down this street to..." "That deli right down there." "Holly was last seen at this deli, just down the street from her home." "A clerk says she came in at 9:30" "Wednesday night with 27 cents and bought a bar of soap." "She's a quiet girl, you know?" "She didn't say nothing to nobody." "And she just got her thing and left." "I really don't know what happened after that." "I worked in the deli there." "Girl comes in." "Who?" "Holly Ann Hughes?" "Holly Ann." "Yeah." "She came in." "When was this?" "This was in 1981." "1981." "She went to buy a bar of soap." "The bar of soap was 31 cents." "Why do I remember?" "Because she was short four cents." "And the old man working behind the counter, he wouldn't give it to her." "That's why I remember." "When I seen his picture, I said," ""yeah, I've seen that guy before." "You know, he's like a quiet guy to himself." "He don't look right."" "Like I think he talked with a speech impediment, but I'm not sure." "And did anybody else ever disappear from that neighborhood?" "Yeah." "Hank Gafforio." "Looked just like Mick Jagger." "Disappeared from that how long afterwards?" "The same time." "He was a little slow..." "Hank." "His brother swears that" "Andre Rand killed him." "They came to me all those years ago." "But that was 18 years ago." "And they said, "we need some help." He was supposedly at the diner at like 3:00, 4:00 in the morning with Rand." "A handful of people came forward... a handful... handful." "And, again, he was older." "You know, that had a lot to do with it." "He was 21." "We were watching this reporter standing in front of" "Holly Ann Hughes' house, and right off her shoulder is" "Hank Gafforio." "It'd be funny to see him pop up in one of these." "Holly home." "The two days since Holly Ann disappeared..." "There." "That's Hank Gafforio." "Right there?" "Yeah." "That number again, 987-7935." "Too many coincidences, you and like I said, before I die," "I would love this guy to just talk to me, just once." "And all he's got to do is just give somebody a note and say," ""this is where they're buried."" "That's all." "He sent us, I think, I guess the view from his window." "This is the decision and order from the judge..." "In the case of" "Jennifer Schweiger?" "No, no, no." "This is in the case of" "Holly Ann." "So he's basically responding to each of the witnesses in the last pretrial hearings." "Testimony, right." "It says, "detective Lotito asked the defendant if he noticed anything unusual about" "Holly Ann Hughes at the time." "The defendant said, 'she was very, very dirty." "Her legs were dirty." "Her hands were dirty.' he gave her money and sent her to the grocery store to buy a bar of soap." "The court here is continuously quoting the detectives' own invented statements." "The defendant never met or saw" "Hughes at any time, nor did the defendant admit these things."" "The only witness today was Elsie Castro." "She lived across the street from where Holly Ann lived." "She says on her side of the street, but one house up, there's a green Volkswagen." "She doesn't see anybody in the green Volkswagen." "She goes into the house." "She goes to take a shower and discovers that there's no soap." "Larry interviewed she saw nothing." "But she claims she bought a bar of soap at the store and was five cents short." "It's very coincidental that she was a nickel short when" "Holly Ann was reportedly a nickel short, as well, all within the time span of about an hour." "So do you think the other witness misremembered?" "I don't know." "And what that says, if I don't know and the jury doesn't know, that's reasonable doubt." "This is Elsie's car." "Elsie Castro." "Right." "Here, the kids were all back and forth around here." "On that corner." "And where was the actual point where they believed she was well, this is the other thing." "We're not sure." "Look at that." "A Volkswagen." "He came back to see what was going on." "All of the crimes that we seem to link him to all took place in" "July, with the exception of tiahease." "This was tiahease... tai." "She lived with her mother, and I believe there were four other siblings, and they were all in one room in the Conca d'Dro." "It was a welfare hotel at the particular time." "It was an August day, and the older brother left tiahease talking to a man." "That man was described as someone that looked like Andre." "She's never been seen again." "The evidence is the bodies." "I'm sure buried somewhere, he's got the evidence." "We just haven't found it in the woods yet." "Sniff it out." "Whatcha got, boy?" "Donna is searching one of" "Rand's former campsites with" "Luis Rivera, a retired police officer who helped search for" "Jennifer the day she disappeared." "Find the body, boy." "Find the body." "Sniff it out." "One body that I found with my dog was 22 years in the ground." "So the possibilities are really there." "It's just a matter of coming back out, concentrating on small areas at a time." "Come on, boy." "Find the body, boy." "Where do you think most of these kids are?" "It's hard to say." "They're buried..." "Somewhere in Staten Island." "Detective Frank Saez is one of the foremost experts on the cold cases of New York City's missing children." "I mean, he could come and say, "listen," someday, "I'll give you the bodies," and take you to a location, and you could be shocked where it's at." "If you look around, you can actually see the perimeter of this area." "And this was one of his campsites." "This did not have a lean-to or a latrine or anything set up the way the campsite at willowbrook did, but kids did say that they would see him sitting in here." "So, this was where he lived in the warmer months." "Seek it out." "Seek it out, boy." "They say the death of a child is the worst possible crime anybody can ever imagine." "Absolutely." "But the missing of a child is even worse, because if your child dies and you bury him or her, then at least you have a place that you can go to." "When your child disappears and you don't know where that child is, to a parent, a child is never dead until an officer can actually bring the remains to them." "Somebody's using this area see, when you find things like articles of clothing, like this is a kid's shoe, shampoo, tape..." "Luis!" "Come on back." "Okay, there's shoes, duct tape, and look how soft the ground is." "It's real soft." "Sniff it out, boy." "Dig it out, boy." "It's areas like this that we would dig, just to see, because that looks a little suspicious." "You never know." "So, this corrections officer keeps saying on the bus every morning that Rand says he's innocent and he didn't do it." "And the corrections officer says, "then consider yourself a martyr for the safety of and that's what you are."" "Holly Ann's brother, ed Armstrong, took the stand today." "He was 14 years old when he last saw his sister on the day she since then, he's become a lieutenant in the" "New York police department." "He's also been instrumental in bringing this case to trial." "If he has any humanity left in his soul, you know, maybe he'll see that there was an error in his way, and, you know, I could forgive him if he returned the remains of my" "sister." "And that's all we ever wanted." "You know, I didn't care if we ever got a day extra added to his sentence." "All I ever wanted were the remains of my sister." "If he's got anything left, he'll do that for us." "Here's Holly Ann." "You were involved in all of these searches?" "Oh, yeah, yeah." "How long do you think you searched for her for?" "For years." ""Will the unlucky 7 ever turn up?" Rushan, his name was..." "R-u-s-h-a-n." "And he changed it to Rand." "This is one where Jennifer was missing." "Do you think there's any credence in the idea that maybe" "Jennifer was reburied at the campsite?" "They found her with the head down, I think it was, and the blood was in the feet, like she was repositioned." "So who do you think maybe..." "That's why we thought there might have been other people involved." "The rumors surrounding the missing children were overwhelming." "Some believed that Rand didn't act alone, that he had help from one of the homeless or a former patient from willowbrook." "Others thought he was framed and that the real killer was still out there." "The only person who knew the truth was Rand himself." "For weeks we had been exchanging letters in hopes of getting an interview." "But Rand refused to give us any information." "He felt all the unwanted attention would expose the nature of his suspected crimes to his fellow inmates and put his life in jeopardy." ""A video interview while incarcerated is likely to instigate violent and jealous actions, detriment to my life and/or property as caused by the press."" "Since Rand wouldn't speak with us, we had to follow any lead find anyone who might have known him in the past." "Hey, I'm looking for" "Richard Frear." "Does he live here?" "He doesn't live here?" "I thought he live... he doesn't live here anymore?" "He used to." "Who are they?" "All people who knew Rand." "How did they know Rand?" "Through Donna's notes, they said, "oh, you know, friend of" "Rand." "Knew Rand."" "You don't recognize any of these names?" "And Willy has passed away there." "Oh, okay." "Does a guy Thomas live here?" "I was around 6, 7 years old, and we was all outside playing at the YMCA." "The guy was like, "y'all want to go on a trip?" This is the place right here," "YMCA." "He had a bus right here." "It was parked right here at the time." "I'll never forget it." "We all hopped on the bus." "We didn't know no better." "We were little kids, you know?" "He said he was just gonna take us to the park." "We wound up in Newark airport." "So then after that, he took us somewhere in some park, which it was pitch-black." "I think it was willowbrook park at the time." "Pitch-black." "We were all running around, playing hide and seek and everything." "Come to find out we were being kidnapped, and we didn't even have a clue what was going on." "I think he attempted something that he couldn't accomplish, and" "I think it, like, dawned on him, like, "I can't do it like this." "Let me, like, take my steps."" "And I think that's what he did." "He was like, you know, "let me work on my prey."" "And that's what he did." "While some residents were convinced of Rand's guilt, others weren't so sure." "Excuse me." "Do you guys know a Thomas Micol?" "That's me." "Oh, hey." "I worked with Andre Rand." "Can we talk to you for a couple minutes?" "Sure." "They say that he was totally framed for that, that they combed that area..." "Like with a fine-tooth comb." "After they arrested Andre Rand, they combed it again, and now her body is there, very easily to be found." "So you know what?" "I would think that maybe he didn't do it either." "Somebody who did do it moved the body there to frame him." "I thought they were just trying to pin it on somebody, and they were gonna blame him, because he was this loner, and, you know, he kind of looked, you know, a little scary." "Searching through old files, we came across the name of Bob Graham." "The notes had indicated that he knew Rand and at one time had been an early suspect in" "Jennifer's disappearance." "He briefly worked at a hamburger joint on forest Avenue called Westley's, and when we used to street-race and drag-race back in the late '60s, early '70s, we used to hide he had the paper hat on, and he" "was sweeping up the parking lot, or he was behind the counter, you know, putting cheese on the burgers." "And he had this Volkswagen that" "I noticed was in the weeds behind willowbrook." "He was living in the car;" "There was a pathway down there." "And I heard things about the tunnel network under willowbrook state school." "It was set up like a hub with spokes." "You could get, say, from the cafeteria out to every ward." "He could survive down there because he had worked there at one time." "So, were there other people living in the woods?" "There's a lot of them out here, not just him." "There are a lot of them out there's something up there." "Look, maybe this is what he's talking about." "There's a tunnel." "Goes all the way down here." "There's a city under a city." "Between the rats running around and the sewer water that had seeped in and..." "The dirty clothes and..." "Racks of clothes, cots." "It's an old wheelchair." "Wow." "That's pretty crazy." "Obviously, men, women, and children were living down there, including Andre Rand." "Yeah, he had his own little circle of friends there." "Look." "All these have these holes in it, and they're all really clean for people to live in." "Look at that floor." "That floor has been totally wiped clean." "Andre Rand had this sort of really low-class, white-trash version of Jim Jones going." "Somehow, he managed to get people to follow him." "Who were they, though?" "Well, he had some other homeless." "Somebody's been staying here." "Cream of mushroom soup, old dishes." "Flowers." "I remember one day, we found a mattress with men's razors and a toothbrush and men's clothing with one pair of little girl's panties." "I think that he was passing the children around to his friends, who were just as sick as him." "So, do you think Rand was the only one responsible?" "In Jennifer's killing?" "No, I don't think he could have done it all by himself." "They told us a lot of strange stories." "They told us strange things about Andre we could never prove or disprove." "You're talking about having sex with dead people." "There's a story, whether you heard that one or not." "The thing that Andre used to do is used to dig up dead bodies in the cemetery and had sex with these bodies." "Did you find it strange that there was kind of this underbelly to Staten Island?" "I would've never guessed the amount of weirdos living on" "Staten Island that I ran into." "You know, why aren't people aware of what's going on here?" "To those who even remotely knew Andre Rand, he was a complete mystery." "The more we tried to learn about him, the more bizarre the stories became." "It was becoming harder for us to tell the difference between the facts..." "And the folklore." "In an almost replay of Rand's first trial, the prosecution is once again relying on eyewitness testimony to prove its case." "Some of those who testified were former alcoholics or drug addicts who now say they can recall the details of that night over 20 years ago." "Burns changed his story back and forth, but basically he's drinking." "He sees Holly Ann." "He sees Rand talking to Holly." "He was the first witness that put Rand next to Holly Ann." "So in that 17 years, he never came forward?" "Never came forward." "That was the key part of our cross." "That was key." "Never came forward." "Other witnesses could provide only the vaguest of details in their testimony." "What was he like?" "Oh, you don't want to meet him." "He was a creep." "Why?" "'Cause he looked like he was a killer." "I just said what I had to say, and that's it." "Did you see anything the night that Holly Ann disappeared?" "Yeah, I heard a scream, and I heard her say, "let me go."" "We had people that held back information that we're finding out today that were drug addicts, dope dealers." "What did you need that you didn't have?" "We needed to put her in the car." "To put her in the car?" "And you had no actual witnesses to put her in the car?" "Not at that time." "He pulled up in his little, green car, asked us if we wanted candy." "She went to go get it." "She put her arm in the car as he opened up the door, and that's the last I've ever seen of her." "In a surprising turn of events, Tanya Goodson was called to the stand." "A playmate of Holly Ann's who was 6 at the time, Tanya testified that she saw Rand, wearing a mask and holding candy, pull Holly Ann into his so, when you said when he took" "Holly Ann he was wearing a mask." "Tell me about that." "The mask I don't remember." "All I know is his face was covered." "I couldn't see his face." "So it might not have been a mask, just like maybe his hat pulled down or..." "No, his whole face was but when he said, "do you want candy?" Did he look that bizarre, with the mask and stuff?" "He looked scary." "So, you knew Jennifer, and you knew Holly Ann?" "Yeah." "I knew a bunch of them that he had kidnapped." "Did you know Hank Gafforio?" "That one I didn't know." "I knew Latisha." "Tiahease?" "Tiahease Jackson?" "All these people you knew growing up on Staten Island, and they all were disappearing." "What did you think?" "I didn't think anything because I was too young." "And now that I am older, I came here to do what I got to do, and" "I feel a whole lot better now." "Mr. Rand, what do you have to say to the Staten Island community?" "And that's 675 Tysens Lane." "This is it, yeah. 30 years ago." "Alice lived here with..." "Her mother, who had multiple sclerosis, was about 26 years old at the time." "And, of course, there's Andre Rand, would stand right there all the time, right where that door is." "And he was a maintenance man and where was the father at the time?" "They were separated." "They were separated for about three years, and that's why the detectives thought that the father might have taken the child." "And so they did not focus on the child being kidnapped by some deviate." "We just want closure, all of us." "Of course." "It's been so many years." "It's like everybody forgot." "He sent a picture of his" "Rikers Island I.D." ""Dear Barbara, you know that I cannot answer many of your questions at this time." "The documentary film you put so much faith into will never stand up to the exculpatory evidence in my book." "You might mean well, but later, other moviemakers will pick up where you left off." "As long as I'm in prison, I will give the moviemakers reason to portray me as an evil person." "You see, evilness sells." "That's the name of their game."" "Rand was right." "The evil, not hard facts, was pushing this trial." "But then the coincidences couldn't be ignored." "We knew we had to get an interview, but now, in exchange," "Rand was pushing for us to proclaim his innocence." ""Barbara, type me an exact list of the questions or discussions you're going to ask me during your documentary."" "This is, I think, the route that he took Holly Ann on." "All the clues led us right along here, right up into baron Hirsch." "So he had a campsite in here?" "We think it was his." "She could be in one of these graves over here." "If he had a bar or something, he could've moved a lid over, put the body in there with an older body, and covered it back up again, and nobody'd ever find her." "'Cause a lot of these are loose." "There's a body down below" "I don't know how deep they bury these are all children." "At first, we were thinking maybe he sold them to use for cult activities or whatever, you really?" "You think it's definitely legitimate?" "I wouldn't doubt it." "I mean, what made you believe that that was going on?" "Well, we had the son of Sam out there, you know?" "That goes into cults in a big way." "I guess, only because that's something that people thought of back then, 20 years ago." "Maybe not today." "They're still thinking about it." "Andre was into the devil's cult, and being a native" "Staten Islander, I really couldn't believe how much..." "How big it is on Staten Island." "We went to one establishment where the basement was set up like..." "I guess what they'd call the church, and they used to hold their ceremonies on actually the old willowbrook state school grounds." "So you don't think it was kids?" "Oh, definitely not." "Definitely not." "I think it was adults that would hold these ceremonies." "And I think Andre Rand and his crew were part of it." "Whether initiated or not, they were part of it." "It's hard for us to believe, but if you had to convince somebody that it was real, what would you say?" "I would say is get a couple of his friends, sit down, and talk to them." "And by them just talking, you'll realize how bad it was." "One time, I was invited to the precinct to talk to them as they recorded me, and they start telling me about devil worshipping on Staten Island, that maybe he was a part of this cult." "And I didn't believe it." "What did they think was going on?" "That maybe some of these devil worshippers had something to do with the kids vanishing." "You can paint parallels to anything and say, "oh, yeah."" "You know, I can take a picture of anybody." "Okay?" "And I can say, "this man is a mass murderer."" "And they say, "yeah, I can tell!" "I can tell."" "I could say, "this man rescued six people from a burning building."" ""I can tell he's a good man."" "In addition to the police investigation, other evidence of cult activity had been mailed to Jennifer's family." "A mysterious letter claimed that" "Rand had been supplying children to the church of the process, the same cult that" "David Berkowitz alleged helped him commit the son of Sam murders." "This anonymous letter was traced back to Veronica Lueken, a local woman with her own religious following." "So basically this group right down over here, you know, they wrote these letters from" "10/4/87, which is a couple months after Jennifer" ""I thought I'd write you this note to try and enlighten you, at the same time reassure you about the crimes that are being committed on the Island." "Well, I did a little checking on the recent disappearances and murders of these kids, and it looks like some of them were victims of what is called a satanic black mass." "Andre Rand did not kill all he did was bring her to the coven." "Too bad that they covered it up, but who wants to admit that" "Staten Island is literally going to hell?" "It is a picnic ground for there are bodies buried that will never be found."" "Hail Mary, full of grace, the lord is with thee." "Blessed are thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus."" "So, can we speak to you for one minute?" "Can you give me, like, a summation of what she said back then?" "Do you believe it actually goes" "so, I think it would be great if you could speak for your organization." "'Cause you're worried about them?" "Around us?" "...the lord is with thee." "This is the transcription from an interview that detectives in 1988 did with" "Andre Rand while he was up in sing sing." "For the first..." "Half an hour, they discuss devil worshipping." ""So you were camping out when he told you that there might be satanic goings-on in the willowbrook area?" "Now it's 1987, and you hear about this cult operating around the same neighborhood, human sacrifices." "Didn't you say to yourself, 'maybe they're the ones that snatched that little girl?" "' did that occur to you?"" "So, when you went up to sing sing in '98, you discussed with him numerous things about devil worshipping?" "Well..." "It was something that was looked into." "But, like I said, we didn't find that Andre was into that kind of crowd." "There was something called the church of the process years ago that was very strongly linked to satanic cults, and the founder of that church happens to live on Staten Island." "And has lived there for a long time." "And he's lived there for a long time." "Yeah." "I mean, is he just not active?" "What's that all about?" "No, he's not." "Supposedly he's not active anymore." "Does he deny it, or is he..." "I've never interviewed him." "Is there satanic cults, people that practice?" "Of course there is." "But it's something that's kept very quiet." "It's something that not many departments investigate." "Satanic worship is satanic worshippers." "It's like being a catholic." "You believe in god, and you believe in Jesus." "They believe in Satan." "So, are you in houses, or are you in the woods?" "You could be in houses." "You could be in the woods." "Are you in abandoned mental institutions?" "You could use them." "And do they use kids?" "I'd rather not answer that." "Basically, this is the area known as the farm colony, and this is where they said a lot of devil worshipping and stuff was" "I'm not saying that there's anything here." "Maybe it's people's imaginations." "I mean, it's scary because you don't know who can be here." "But there's no devil there are some crosses on the building across the way." "We should go." "Let's just check it out." "Building "a."" "Barb, you want to go inside?" "Let's go inside." "No, I'm not going inside." "So, we're not gonna see anything if we don't go inside." "I'm not." "Wait." "I'm not going inside." "We already went inside during the day." "What are you, scared?" "We don't even know..." "I'm going inside." "What the fuck am I gonna do?" "Oh, my god!" "Sorry." "I dropped the light." "I dropped the light." "I'm sorry." "It was an accident." "You know what?" "I don't want to stay." "Shh, shh, shh!" "What?" "You hear something?" "I saw something over there." "People are coming." "So, why are you here tonight?" "You hear stories." "We just wanted to see what it's about, I guess." "What do you guys expect to find out here?" "People who died here..." "Supposed to be the ghosts." "Searching through the farm colony, all we found were kids scaring each other out in the woods, just like we had done" "20 years ago." "Do you believe that there are devil worshippers in the woods here?" "Oh, yeah." "I do." "Somebody said they were doing freaky experiments and crap like what makes us all come out what makes us believe these stories?" "Could there be some truth to it all?" "You guys ever hear of any missing kids from Staten Island?" "Y'all be hearing missing kids?" "They found one girl," "Jennifer Schweiger, buried on the grounds of the willowbrook mental institution." "I remember my mom saying something about that." "Wasn't she slow?" "Maybe the reality that a person can kill a child is too much for some of us to bear, and so instead we create our own monsters." "He's not gonna testify, I'm very disappointed to say." "It seemed like he was wanting to divulge information, of course not necessarily confess to anything, but certainly he was very antsy, and that seemed like a good sign to people who might like to try to get" "information out of him." "Are you upset he didn't take the stand?" "It would've been interesting, because we've never even heard him speak." "So it's really hard to have feelings about a person you really don't know." "You don't even know what they sound like." "How come you didn't put Andre on the stand?" "Andre didn't have too much to add, and he has a criminal record." "And a criminal record would distract from this case." "The jury will be handed the case Monday, and if convicted," "Rand could face an additional 25 years to life on top of the sentence he's already serving." "On Staten Island," "Amanda Farinacci, ny1." "Good?" "Rand had been upset about not taking the stand and wanted the chance to defend himself." "After months of letter-writing, he finally decided to give us an" "it was time to confront Rand face-to-face to get some answers once and for all." "He did the same thing to me. 'Cause after that initial interview that we had with him, we had written to him." "We went back up, and he said," ""sure, no problem." "Come back up." "We'll talk again." "But you'll come to my house." "You can't move me." "I won't talk to you unless you speak to me in my home."" "And we went up there, and he told the correction people, "I changed my mind." "I don't want to talk to him."" "He wouldn't talk to us, so..." "We're gonna go back home." "It's a game for him." "To me, he's a very smart man." "He knew how to commit the crime and not get caught." "And like he said to me, "why is it that you guys don't find the real killer?"" ""It is your sins that make him hide his face so that he will not hear you, for your hands are stained with blood, your fingers with guilt, your lips speak falsehoods, and your tongue utters deceit."" "Josh and I had decided to hold off on answering Rand after his most recent letters." "They were becoming more and more bizarre." "His handwriting had changed, and he was now quoting scripture." ""No one brings suit justly." "No one pleads truthfully." "They trust in emptiness and tell lies." "They conceive mischief and bring forth malice." "They hatch adders' eggs and weave spiders' webs." "Whoever eats their eggs will die." "If one of them is pressed, it will hatch as a viper."" ""My stand on deviate sex beliefs." "Children are emotionally wasted, and the land is littered with broken lives."" "Why's he keep focusing on women?" "Maybe he saw things as a child?" "I mean, nobody really knows his early childhood." "In some of the letters to you... we have them... it talks about her case." "Father died in 1958." "When he was 14." "His mother was in pilgrim state, from what I was told." "Pilgrim state is built exactly to the specs of willowbrook." "Willowbrook and pilgrim state..." "Same type of facility." "...same type of facility, same type of building, same tunnel system, same kitchen systems." "Rand writes in his letters that his mother was committed to pilgrim state asylum in long Island." "As a teenager, he would often go there to visit." "With a population that once topped 13,000, pilgrim state was at times the largest mental institution in the world, much like willowbrook." "This new connection to Rand's family was something we couldn't ignore." "We tried several times to contact a woman who we thought was Rand's sister." "Excuse me." "We're doing a documentary, and we wanted to speak to you about..." "I think it's your brother, Andre Rand." "Right." "Was there something that happened in his life that you think kind of set him on this wrong path?" "We're not trying to get anybody to confess to anything." "No, it's just a "why?"" "Yeah, try to understand why." "Received Friday, June 20th." "Do you still feel like they didn't do enough at the time?" "I don't feel..." "I think they all worked, but I don't feel it was coordinated properly." "I mean, there's so many things that are coming out that I didn't know about." "And here they are, and had they been followed up, I wouldn't be here today." "It would've been settled 23 you think he's gonna get convicted?" "Not with this evidence, because it's not credible." "You've got 12 people, and some people just could get hung up on something and believe that he's guilty or not." "The question of innocence or guilt is more fundamental in one this guy has a track record." "And that jury, in their hearts, they permit this guy to go free, is only gonna see another tragedy." "The jury had taken the weekend to deliberate Rand's fate, which gave us the opportunity to seek out one last person... reverend Muskett, a storefront preacher who had housed Rand in the final days before his arrest in '87." "For months, we had searched for his whereabouts until a detective finally revealed his address." "Hey, I'm looking for Mr. Muskett." "I don't know if he really wants to be involved anymore in this at all or not." "Maybe you feel like your family got negative attention as a result of it, I'm sure." "Yeah, because..." "Well, actually we did." "It's one of the reasons why we came to Pennsylvania." "Right." "So, Rand was living in your house while he was under suspicion for taking Jennifer?" "It was at the police's own insistence that we took" "Andre Rand in." "They bugged the house, and they had a surveillance vehicle sitting on the corner day and" "we couldn't tell the community what we were doing because, obviously, if we did, he would know and would leave." "So as far as the community knew, we were friends of Andre Rand." "Did they physically threaten you?" "Some people had." "They didn't view me as a friend." "But I was a friend of Jennifer." "Why do you believe he took" "Jennifer?" "He told me." "He told me he took her." "He took her because he thought that her family didn't want her and that she was alone, and he felt that people that had mental handicaps and that shouldn't be alive..." "Not thinking that people would appreciate or care for or like someone who has a mental handicap." "Andre believed that these young girls came from families that they couldn't give them anything, so the best thing was that they weren't around." "He seemed to think it was part of his mission to cleanse the world of..." ""Imperfect children" in his eyes." "Due to the fact that his mother had some sort of mental disability and the fact that he viewed these other people that were less than perfect, and I personally feel that rather than see them maybe grow up and have" "children, he was sparing them and taking them out." "One of my sons is mentally retarded, which hung around with his name's chippy." "And that's probably what drawn him to..." "Well, to us, because of chippy being the way he is." "I think he's possessed." "I really think that he is demonized and possessed." "We had the same questions that you're asking me... why did he do this?" "What set him off?" "Believe me, we were wide-open for any type of motive." "When we did interview him finally, there was gonna be a final interview, and we were gonna take him back through his alibi, and that's why we rented a hotel room." "We said, "Andre, look, we got this tape of willowbrook." "Remember you used to work at willowbrook?"" ""Oh yeah, it was terrible."" "I said, "remember how" "Geraldo Rivera did the exposé?"" "He said, "yeah, but I never saw it."" ""Well, we have it." "Would you like to come up and see it?" "Cause we have a VCR up there."" "And he said, "you know, I'd really like that."" "And we're saying, "well, he did work at willowbrook for two years." "He was a physical therapist." "Maybe there's something on that tape that's gonna shake him."" "Perhaps the governor can defend and explain away the budget cuts for the department of mental hygiene, and perhaps" "Dr. Miller can explain and defend the filthy, dehumanizing conditions we found in this and other buildings, but they won't do it on this program." "What we found and documented here is a disgrace to all of us." "This place isn't a school." "It's a dark corner where we throw children who aren't pretty to look at." "It's the big town's leper colony." "We were sitting on both sides of him..." "And he started to cry." "He started to cry." "And he said, "do you see how it was?" "You see how it was?" "We were victims, too," meaning the attendants or the people that worked there." "He just sat there, and his eyes, like, rolled, and he just started drooling in the hotel room." "We could see what was happening to him, and it's like you would kneel right in front of him." ""Say it." "Tell us the truth now."" "You know, "god will forgive you."" "We were so close." "We thought we had it." "Then he just started to rock." "He was that way that whole night, the whole next day, and he didn't start talking to people until two or three days later." "As much as it had started, in the end, it all came back to were the answers to these missing children found on" "Geraldo's tape?" "And if so, had the sins of willowbrook finally come back to haunt the residents of" "all news, all the time." "This is 1010 wins." "You give us 22 minutes, we'll give you the world." "A guilty verdict 23 years after 7-year-old" "Holly Ann Hughes vanished from outside of her Staten Island home." "This is the heroes right heroes, heroes, heroes, heroes." "He's a killer." "He's a killer and a kidnapper." "Tell us where she is." "Tell us where the other kids are." "I'll go look for them." "I'll find them." "The other ones, of course, yes." "There's speculation." "But we will make sure that those cases someday come to trial and that the rest of those families have the same type of justice that the Schweiger's and the" "Hughes have." "A lot of weight is lifted off me right now." "I feel better." "Do you feel any closure about the verdict?" "Well, you know, it..." "It's not gonna bring back you know that." "But..." "She's watching." "That's enough." "Well, the killer had a lot of nicknames... the pied Piper," "Hannibal Lechter, the bogeyman of Staten Island." "His victims were among the most vulnerable." "They were children." "And tonight, prosecutors are making sure that predator stays behind bars." "23 years ago, the entire city was transfixed with the image of an innocent 7-year-old girl who disappeared in the blink of an eye." "Sadly, Holly Ann Hughes has never made it home." "Mr. Rand..." "What the conviction today does is assure us that" "Andre Rand will die in prison." "Andre Rand was sentenced 25 years to life for the kidnapping of Holly Ann Hughes." "He will be eligible for parole in 2037." "He will be 93 years old." "Ooh." "No matter how horrible the allegation was, this case was hardly a case where it was proved conclusively that this guy committed this crime." "That just goes to show, when it comes to a child is hurt, an innocent child is lost..." "You know, people want to basically lynch you." "And if they had an opportunity to lynch anybody, they would lynch Rand." "Did you ever think you would get to this day?" "No, never thought I'd get" "I don't feel like I got closure at all." "You know, I mean, you never get closure, and that's just a bullshit word, too." "I mean, it happened, and that's you got to live with it." "You have no choice." "I'd just like to find her remains and..." "Put it to rest." "Actually, part of the testimony in this case, he claimed that we were looking in the wrong spot." "Well, you know what?" "I'll make sure we look in the right spot." "Where would that be?" "That's willowbrook." "Now's the time to use what we learned from this one to reopen another one of the cases." "I think he likes playing this little head game." "I think we're gonna get little hints over the next few years." "You know, he likes to be the center of attention, the one that holds... the keeper of the secrets, and I think that's gonna play a real important part." "Donna, just say your full name for me, and tell me again the title of your organization." "It's Donna Cutugno." "C-u-t-u-g..." "Was Andre Rand convicted on fact or fiction?" "We'll probably never know." "But for the residents of" "Staten Island, there was no distinction." "He was their child murderer, their scapegoat, and their bogeyman all tightly woven into one." "To some, Andre Rand was the ringleader to an underground community of outcasts who roamed the woods." "To others, he was an unwitting puppet, manipulated by a deviant cult that trafficked in children..." "Or a delusion murderer, fueled by our own urban failures, killing those he thought weren't worthy of living." "We will never know the real story behind Andre Rand, so all we're left with is our version, that of Cropsey." "But now we've added another chapter for the next generation of kids on Staten Island." "The power of the urban legend is that it doesn't claim to be the truth, but rather it says the truth is a range of possibilities, and it's the audience who must decide." "So pick one."