" So... when Glen and I first got married, his parents gave us, as a wedding gift, um, a little house that they had in Pennsylvania." "They had it since they were married back in," "I don't know, '69, and now they spend their summers in a bigger house that they moved into that's right near the little house and I think that they partly gave it to us so that they could see Glen's kids more," "since we would be spending all of our summers right by them, uh, which I didn't mind at all, because I liked them, and..." "And..." "I don't know." "But after all the chapters in my life being married to you, having the kids, the... whole mess, divorce, teaching public high school," "I'd stopped really giving a shit about my own personal space, you know?" "It was just like, well, everybody, hey, come on in, you know, take whatever you want." "So we started going there every summer." "And it's really nice there." "Just tall trees for days." "Um, something about a place that gets so cold in the winter, 'cause in the summer, there's all this moisture, and so there's still these pockets of cool air, even in the hottest parts of the summer." "I loved it." "And..." "Glen's kids would romp and he loved taking them fishing, and there was a horse farm nearby and they would all borrow horses and go riding and, uh, Roger and Beth, Glen's parents, they would come over almost every night for dinner." "And it was real easy." "It, uh..." "I didn't mind that it was all Glen's family, his parents, his kids, and then me." "I was okay with that." "I just thought, well, I can do this for as long as it works." "And it..." "Really... nothing ever went wrong, 'cause nobody had any issues," "Glen's kids and I, we- we never had any bumps or..." "It was just real easy." "And I used to love going to sleep in the country with the bugs buzzing and frogs and..." "And then waking up in the quiet, 'cause I used to get up before anybody else did." "That was my time." "And so, also, Roger would come over a lot, Glen's dad." "He's real handy, Glen's not handy, so Roger would come over and tend to stuff around the little house, 'cause I think he never really let go of the feeling that that was still his to care for." "And Beth, um... was just kinda quiet." "Like together they're quiet, like their whole relationship is... kind of a secret." "They would come over together and sit and watch everybody with these two peaceful smiles on their face, like they're already ghosts, silently watching over the grandkids, but by himself, Roger, he- he- he would talk and tell stories." "Uh, he..." "He's very..." "He has that kind of man's ego from another time, when it wasn't considered just being an asshole, when it was a virtue, you know, 'cause he grew up in Michigan, and I just think" "that it's really interesting to know somebody that has a quarter-century head start on you." "It's like getting to talk to a time machine." "So he would come over and do stuff around the house, and I'd make him coffee and he would talk while he worked." "And I would listen and laugh." "He's really funny." "And I'd watch him." "I mean, he's 84." "And in all those years, he never stopped using his muscles, his body." "So he comes over and works and, um, usually takes his shirt off after a while, and when you look at a man's 84-year-old body and you see the skin turn red and then sweaty with the work that he's doing" "all of his life, and a man who doesn't have to prove anything to anybody in that little house." "He would tell me stories about his past in the Navy and growing up on his parents' farm, but he- he didn't really care that it was me that he was telling." "He was just being social." "He never looked at me much." "But I would stare at him 'cause I could, 'cause he wasn't looking back." "So this one day when he comes over to fix the porch boards, he drives up in this little truck that he has." "I can hear the truck from all the way down the hill." "The house is up on a little hill and then there's nothing but woods between their place and ours." "And so whenever he comes, I hear that little engine," "I hear the- him switching his gears when he comes up the hill." "So it's morning and Glen's got the kids out on the lake and I'm all alone and I'm sunbathing out on the lawn, which feels stupid, but I just wanted to feel the sun on my body" "and I'm alone, so who cares?" "And I'm laying back in the chaise in my only bikini that I ever- that I ever, ever bought myself." "And I just let my legs... go open, 'cause I want the sun on the inside of my thighs, and it just feels good to be in the woods alone and letting the sun in, just splayed like a frog, legs open and... letting the sun." "And then I hear the little truck." "I hear it, uh, coming." "And I smile like I always do, with my eyes closed." "And I hear it getting nearer and nearer, and I think, well, right where he's gonna pull in, he's gonna see me like that, and here I am with my legs open and I'd better close them and lay here like a lady does." "And then I thought, oh, well, what if I don't?" "What if I lay here with my eyes closed and my legs open and let him see?" "And... the thought of that, it re- it... made my heart go really fast." "And I kept my eyes closed and... the closer that the sound of that little truck got, the more..." "I got..." "Oh, my God." "I just stayed there, and, uh..." "I tried to sort of make it look like I was sleeping, but who sleeps like that?" "And- and I hear the truck pull into the little space in front of the house and I have to" " I" "I was breathing so hard," "I thought I was gonna have an orgasm just laying there." "And I hear the truck door squeak open and slam shut, and I hear his feet in the grass." "He'd take a step, then I hear him stop, so I know that he's standing there, looking at me." "And I let him." "I just" " I just let him look." "And it was so..." "It was so dirty." "I don't know, I don't know." " Why are you telling me this?" " I know, I know, it's weird." " Yeah." " I know, I know, 'cause I mean, we haven't even talked in years." "Ever since Alice went to college and 'cause now there finally hasn't been any reason for us..." " Yeah, I guess not." " ... to talk." " Right." " You probably think I hate you, and maybe sometimes I do, still, a little bit." " Maybe I hate you, did you ever...?" " Yeah, well, I don't know." "I'm sure you do." "But I- can I just keep going?" " Sure." " Okay." " You're laying on your back with your legs open in a bikini and your new 84-year-old dad-in-law is looking between your legs." " So yes, he's looking." "And, um..." "And I can tell because he's not moving, so, yeah, he's... he's looking right at me." "Now." "Now, all I can think is, don't open your eyes, right?" "Because if you look back at him, then you did this." "You..." "That's it." "And you can never take it back." "And now you can't even close your legs because then you definitely weren't sleeping, and what would Glen say and sweet Beth and the kids?" "And I thought, I'm sick." "I'm corrupt." "I just should have left this little family alone." "Glen, he's pure, he's innocent." "His wife died, is all, and he needed somebody, and here I came, this fucked-up divorced older lady, and I'm showing half of my vagina to his 84-year-old dad." " Did you open your eyes?" " No." "No." "I kept 'em closed." "And he was there... a- a long time." "I just felt him there." "I..." "It was the most erotic thing ever, and after I don't even know how long, um," "I heard him start to unload wood from the truck, so when that first plank of wood hit the porch, I got up," "I pulled a wrap on around my bottom," "I got up, I made him coffee, and just like always, I watched him work." "He told me stories, but this time, when he talked to me, he looked right at me and he asked me things and I talked and he listened and..." "And he listened very well." " Is that all that ever- is that all that happened?" " That's all that happened that day." "I mean, that was it." "He..." "left, and I didn't even dare masturbate, because I knew that it would just be too much." " What happened?" " Okay." "So..." "I didn't see him for a few days." "Him and Beth didn't come over for dinner." "He didn't come over to fix anything." "It was weird, not having any contact with them and I got kinda scared, even though I" "I mean, what?" "Nothing happened." "But I couldn't think about anything else." "Glen and the kids and I, we'd be having our time and..." "I'm miles away." "I'd be in the kitchen watching Glen make something he likes to cook, and I just kept staring out the window at the chaise." "So then, I think two days after that, Roger calls the house," "I pick up the phone, he says, "Hi, Sarah,"" "I say, hey, and my heart's pounding." "It's pounding, and he says, um," ""So I'm thinking about coming over to paint the wainscoting" ""in the dining room tomorrow, it's peeling." "So is around 11:00 in the morning okay for you?"" "And see, here's the" "The thing is, he never did that." "He never called before, he just comes over." "He never did that." "So I just say, "Yeah, sure, Roger, I'll see you then. "" "I hang up the phone and Glen says, "What'd he say?"" "And so I told him what he said, exactly what he said." "And I was lying to him." "I mean, I never lied to him." "I never" " I never lied to a man, that I remember." " You never lied to me." " And here I am, telling Glen exactly what his dad said, and it was a big lie." "And Glen just shrugged and said, okay, and I thought, boy, the worst part about telling a lie is when someone that you love just accepts it." " Yep." "So he came over." " Well, oh, my God." "That night, I" " I" " I said to Glen, well, first, you know, I counted in my head like how much time should go by after the call, and then I open my mouth to suggest that Glen take the kids to the lake," "and I thought, what the hell?" " Mm-hmm." " Come- What the hell are you doing?" "You know, am I really gonna do this?" "'Cause that- that would really be doing something, to get rid of Glen." " Yep." " And I told myself, you haven't done anything." "Nothing happened." "So I decide to do the opposite and I say to Glen," ""Hey, what do you want to do tomorrow?" "Should we all go into town?"" "And he goes, "No." "I already booked horses for me and the kids, starting at 7:00."" " Of all..." "So, and then all I had to do was go- just nod my head up and down and say, sure, and so the next morning, they leave and now it's getting close to 11:00" "and I don't know what to do." "What do I do?" "What do" "Do I put on the bikini and assume the position?" "I don't know, what do I" "I don't want to do anything." "I do not want any of this to be happening, but at the same time," "I felt like I needed to see it through, because he called and said that he was coming and he doesn't do that because it- so it just" "It sounded like he wanted it to happen again." "So I put on the old bikini, and then" "Oh, Horace, this is the worst." "I had the most awful thought." " What?" " I thought that when he saw me there that first time, he didn't like it." "He thought that it was gross and he thought that it was shameful and he thought that it was awful and the reason that he stopped was because he thought that I was sleeping." "He didn't want to wake me up because he didn't want to have me feel ashamed, and that the reason that he had called the house was that so I would have a warning that he was coming" "so that it wouldn't happen again, because he's a decent man and I'm a whore." "And I hear the truck, and I am so afraid, I run upstairs," "I start changing my clothes." "I am in a panic, I'm" "I'm literally trying to figure out, what does a woman wear who's trying not to fuck the old guy down the hill who gave birth to her new husband?" " So he comes in the house and he's- he's- he's down there." "And I hear him call out, hi, hello?" "And I'm standing upstairs in my bra and panties and I yell out, "Hi, Roger!"" "And he calls up, said, "I'm just gonna get started, work down here. "" "And I yelled down, "Yeah, sure. "" "And I hear him starting to work." "And I... stood there in my underwear listening to him shuffle around, popping open the paint can, stirring it." "And... all of the blood that had been running through my body all that time went right between my legs and..." "I laid down on my bed, and this house is so old, so small, so" "The walls are thin, the floors are thin." "When I laid down on the bed, it made this noise, and he's in the room right below me, and I hear the brush stop when the bed creaks and then start again, and I start running my hands..." "...on myself all over and..." "I mean, he's, what, maybe like 10 feet away from me, vertically, and I'm this dirty woman touching myself and I can hear him working, but very quietly, so my heart is pounding and I made a sound" " I" "I made a sound, like a little moan." "And then, I hear the brush stop." "And then start." "And then I just" "I let myself get a little bit louder, and now I hear him put down the brush, stand up, my heart's pounding, I" " I" " I stop, I mean, I freeze." "I hear him pull a chair out from the table and sit down, 'cause I hear the old wood of the chair creak and settle under him and- and, um..." "And then I hear, like rustling of clothes and then nothing, and- and I know that he's sitting in that chair, not moving, and that's all that I know." "So my heart's" " Did he take his dick out?" " I..." "I start touching myself, and I let my- my own sounds drowned out his, and I assume that he's doing the same, but of course, I don't know, I don't know." "I" " I don't know anything that's" "I mean, for all I know, he's guessing what I'm doing up there and the poor guy is sitting down there just totally shocked, or he has no idea that any of this is going on" "and all of this is just making me crazy." "I'm full-on masturbating, I came like crazy." "I..." "I" " I" " I might have been loud," "I might've not even made any noise at all." "I couldn't even tell you, but my God, Horace, it was a lot." "And I hear him, um, uh, stand up, then, from the chair and go back to work, so I put my clothes on and- and I go in the bathroom," "I'm running the water, you know, I'm just trying to be normal," "I'm trying to be normal, loud, footsteps, loud, loud, and all, ahh, ahh." "You know, I come downstairs and, um, and we talk, we listen to each other." "Um..." "He takes his shirt off." "I watch him work." "When he's done, he leaves." "That was... three months ago." " Holy fuck." "So did you guys ever fuck or what?" " I mean, Horace." "Oh, do you know how... how horrible it would be if Glen found out and Beth and the kids and..." "And even more, I mean, it would just like be the end of life." " Sounds like you guys are fucking." "Oh, shit." " I don't know, I don't know." "I don't know what to do." "I" " I can't stop, and..." "I mean, if I don't stop, then all these people are gonna get so hurt." "I just want to die." "Just the other night, I- I cried so hard till morning, and, um, I thought" "I just felt like my back was against a bed of rusty nails." " Oh, Sarah." " And I thought of you, Horace, and I thought of how when I found out about you and Rosemary and how much I hated you and how" "And how could you do that to the family, you know, to the kids and to me and to yourself?" "And then- and then, I was like, oh, Jesus Christ." "The guy was 21, I was 32, and I married him." "I mean, I made him marry me." "It's not that hard to make a guy that age do what you want." "He's so used to still listening to his mother." "And so, I just thought, how was that like for you?" "'Cause, I mean, I had never thought about how" "How was it like for you?" " So you thought that maybe I could help you now because I went through it when I cheated on you?" " Yeah." " Wow." "Well, that's..." "Can you give me a minute?" "I'll be right back." "♪♪" " ♪ Horace and Pete ♪" " Okay." " Okay." "What, did you go jerk off or something?" " Ha." " Ha ha." " Well, my head is clear now." " Okay." " Yeah." " And- and I am sorry." " Okay, it's all right, it's all right." "So you're in a- you're in a pretty fucked up situation." " Yes, I am, yes, I am." " Well, I know how that feels." " Yes, you do." "That's why" " Okay, well, look, Sarah." "I mean... you know, it's funny, we never talked about it." " That's true." " Well, look, let me- let me just say this off the bat, okay?" "If you keep doing this with this guy, and I'm not judging you, obviously." "I mean, people do what they- they do what they do." "But you really have two choices." " Mm-hmm." " Stop and forget about it, or keep doing it, in which case, everybody's gonna know." " Oh, my God." " Well, come on, Sarah." "There's no other way." "I mean, you know it." "If you keep fucking this guy, someone's gonna find out, which means everyone's gonna find out, and then all the worst things that you're imagining, they're all gonna happen." "So if you keep doing it" "And again, God bless, do what you gotta do." "But it's all gonna happen, all that awful stuff, so you need to reconcile with that and start thinking about how you're gonna deal with it, or stop." " That's not really a choice." " Yeah, I know." "None of it is a choice." "You can't stop." " No." " I know." " I mean, he's just beautiful, he smells good." " Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay." " I" " I" " I" "I know what you're saying is true." "I know what I need to do." "I can't do it." "So I'm not asking what I should do." " You're asking..." "How did I not kill myself?" "Jesus." "I remember feeling like that." "That was- that's a..." "That's a bad feeling." "I mean, you're doing something that" "I was doing something that was the end of absolutely everything and I kept" " I kept doing it." " Yeah." " I never thought about killing myself, but I used to have fantasies about something happening to me, you know, like getting hit by a truck or falling off a cliff." "That's a bad feeling." "So, well..." "I met your sister... when we started dating." "Like we were dating for about a month, right before we got married." " And I cannot believe we got married that quick." " Yeah, that was dumb." "I don't know, it was just- I don't know." " So..." " So... you remember..." "I went to dinner with you and your family?" " Mm-hmm, sure." " Do you want to hear this?" " Sure." " Okay, so that's when I first met her, was at that dinner, and I" " I forgot" " I don't know why, but I asked her why she- when she graduated high school, and you made that joke, you said, "She's your age, Horace. "" " Yeah, yeah." "Yeah, I remember that." " This doesn't bother you to hear about this?" " No, it's helping me." "I think it's" " Did you forgive me or" " No." "No, I never did." "I stayed mad at you for years." "Why would I forgive you for fucking my sister?" "Breaking apart the family?" "Doing that to the kids?" " Just, you don't seem mad anymore." " I'm not, it just went away." "It's kinda sad." "Um..." "No, I was so mad at you," "I would walk around all day with these bad feelings, about what you did and I thought, well, someday, something'll happen, you know," "I'll be overcome by a wave of kindness, or I'll just- or I'll just figure out a different way to look at it and I'll forgive you and I'll feel good, but instead," "what happens is, time just takes the feelings away, they just kinda get dim with time going by, they just go away and you don't get to figure it out." "It's like erosion, it just goes away." "It's kinda sad." " Yeah." " Anyway, uh, I don't feel anything about it, Horace." "But, well, all that's left is, I'm curious how you got through it." " Okay." "So, Rosemary." "You know, I never thought about her that way when I first met her." "I mean, she was all right." "She was your sister." "And then..." "Shit." "Yes?" " Well, then we got married, and then one day, you were at work and I was home, and she came over to get something," "I don't remember what, and we fucked." " So that's it?" " Yeah, I mean, it's not a cool story like yours." "But, um..." "Maybe it was, I don't remember." "Anyway, once we figured that out, that we were into fucking each other and not telling anybody, we started to do it a lot." "And after a while, we couldn't stop doing it." " Oh, God." " Yeah, it was a lot of fucking." "A lot." "And then, just the worst..." "The worst, worst, worst, worst, worst feeling in the whole wide fucking world." " Yeah." " I would lie awake next to you, just thinking, what if she finds out?" "Like scared, like what if she finds out?" "And then all the shit with the kids when they were born." "Horace..." " Well, I couldn't have been doing a worse thing." "I couldn't have been doing a worse thing." "It was the worst thing I could ever do." "And I kept doing it." " Yeah." "Yeah." " And every day, every single day," "I would think, I don't want to be alive." "I just want it all to end." "Not just me, I wanted us all to die." " Oh, Jesus." " Well, I wanted everybody involved in any way to just stop existing." "It was the only clean way out." "I remember on 9/11 when the planes had hit the buildings and on the news they said that Washington was on fire and there was" "Remember, everybody thought there was more planes coming?" " Yeah, God." " I thought, maybe this is it, maybe... maybe the planes will take us out and this will all be over." " Oh, that's... horrible." "It's horrible." " Well, I preferred that to what I knew would happen, and did, that everybody would find out what I was doing." " Mm-hmm." " I would picture you finding out." "Like I would close my eyes and I'd picture your face and I'd see all this hate in your eyes that I knew I could never come back from, and I kept on fucking her, and you hated me anyway." " What?" " You hated me." " Horace, you thought I hated you before we broke up?" "I didn't hate you." "I didn't." " Yeah, I kinda know that now." "I mean, come on, honey, we were" "I was 21, you were 32." " Well, you know, Horace, aside from all of that, you were never anything but nice to me." "I mean, like just daily life, like, you know, all that time, you were always just nice and I do wish that I had put a higher value on that than I did." "I" " Maybe that's a part of the reason." " Sarah, I fucked your sister." "That's the story, okay?" "That's what happened." " Yeah." " We don't have to dig any deeper than that." " No, that- that does make it a lot easier, doesn't it?" " Well, that's why people do stuff like that, like this." "Because then you don't have to go through all the muck." "Otherwise, you have to go through all the muck, and nobody can do that, so you just..." "In a bad marriage?" "Fuck a relative and get out." "It works." "It's like an insurance fire." "And you know, when a building burns to the ground, nobody asks any questions, you just gotta really burn it down." " I don't even know why I'm laughing." " Come on." "Like let's get real." "Sarah, you know what you should do?" "You want to know the truth?" "You should get out." "You should leave Glen and get out." "That's what you're doing anyway by fucking his dad, you're getting out." " I can't do it." "I can't, I can't." "No, ahh, I have to face it, I have to fix it." " That is facing it." "That's facing it." "Get out and then the whole mess is fixed." "That's the fix." " Well, but I can" "I" " I can stop." "I can stop with Roger." "That's what a good person would do." "That's what I'm called on to do." "Don't just throw up your hands, say, oh, well, I" "You know, I do this awful thing, so come what may." "You have to correct your behavior, and you have to strive to be better for the people in your life." " Okay." "Sarah, tell yourself the story where you've been fucking this guy as long as you have and then all of a sudden, you just stop, and then you just go back to one big happy family every Christmas" "and Easter in your house in the woods, is that" "Do you see that future?" " No, no." " You gotta get out." "You gotta get out." " I" " I don't want" "I don't want to have another divorce." "Horace, I can't take it, I mean, ours was what it was." "I don't blame you, I don't blame me, it just happened, but if it happens to me again, what does that say?" " It says that you're shitty at being married." "It's okay, so am I." "That doesn't make you a bad person." "Just don't be married." "Just get out and don't do it again." "Just be alone, like me." "You can't stay in this fucking thing just to try to make the truth not be true." "That's insane, that's- that's Catholic." " Those kids love me, they really do, and I love them, and- and- and they lost their mother." "How do I now just- just pull out of their life so violently in such a terrible way?" "I'd have to be a terrible person." " You had your kids." "You had your kids, okay?" "And you raised your kids." "Their- their dad... fucked the family up." "You stayed and saw them through their childhood, okay?" "Those are Glen's kids, not yours, and they lost their mom." "That's what happened to them." "Bu anything you give them is plus." "They got to be with you, okay?" "If you leave, it doesn't mean that they give that back." "Just because you pull out doesn't mean that you weren't- that you were never there." " Boy, you really have a skill at justifying horrible things." " Yeah." " I don't know what to do." " No, you don't." "Oh, God." " All right, well, here's what you gotta do." "This is what you gotta do, you might as well do it." "Go back and keep fucking Roger." "Keep loving Glen and the kids." "Just do both things as long as you can as well as you can." "That's what you're gonna do." "You know that's what you're gonna do, so you just might as well decide you're gonna do it." " Yeah." "Yep." "Oh, my God." "What am I?" " You're just like a whole bunch of other people, Sarah." "Like a lot of other people." "Like you could field an army with how many people have been in your situation." "Literally, you could gather the cheaters of the world, and you could wage war on the honest and you'd win." " Oh, God, you're awful." " You're gonna be okay, you know." "It's gonna be okay." "You're gonna be okay, Sarah." " Well, I don't know how you know that." " Because, you know how I know it?" "'Cause I'm okay." "And I was right where you are, and I'm okay." " What about Glen?" " He'll be okay, too, because he is where you were, and you're okay." " Yeah." " And his kids will be fine, 'cause look at our kids." "Fuck." "How is he?" "I know, I mean, I follow him on Instagram so I know..." " Yeah." " ... he's on a lacrosse team and he went to Peru with his natural history class, but how is he?" " Well, I" "He made me promise not to talk to you about him." " Oh, okay." "Did he- He knew you were coming here to tell me that you're fucking your new husband's dad?" " Ehh." " Well, ouch, okay?" "I mean..." "Fuck, man." "I get it, I got it coming, but it fucking hurts." "That's..." " So I'm honoring his... promise in the sense that, you know," "I'm telling you about it." "I" " I do owe him that, but I think that you should know, your son is doing really great." "I mean, he's great." "He's a lovely guy, Horace." "He- he- he" "He's nice to everybody and it's genuine." "He's got a girl, terrific." "She's terrific." "And he likes life." "And, um, he's... thoughtful." "He... picks good friends." "He's really good with tough things, and so he's doing really good." " Thanks." " Yeah." " I'm really blowing it with Alice." "She's always pissed at me." " Oh, well, you know, she just needs to stop already." "I don't even" "How long does she think she gets to stay a kid?" " Well..." " No, Hor" " No." "I mean, she's almost a lawyer now." "You- you are making an effort to be in her life." "Nobody owes her any more than that." "She's being a big fat brat." " Jesus, wow." " Well, I" "I can't" " I can't with that." "I can't with that one." "That's enough, I..." " All right, I'll take it." "I didn't really..." "I didn't really know, you know, what I was throwing away with those guys." " You still don't know, Horace, but forgive yourself." "And- and- and you want to know something?" "I'm happy for you, 'cause I think that you found peace." "I wish that I could do it." "I can't, I'm weak, 'cause I need somebody." "And it takes a strength and a self-acceptance to be alone and I really do- I feel like you found it and you're living your truth, you're living honestly and- and..." "So..." "I'm proud of you." "I'm just..." "I'm really happy for you." "So long, hon." " Bye, Sarah, see you." " Take care." " Okay." " I can't believe you married that cunt."