"This programme contains strong language from the start, scenes which some viewers may find upsetting and scenes of sexual violence." "It's 21.09 on 6th August 2008." "I am Detective Constable Jack Harrop." "My colleague is Police Constable Richard Bryan." "Also present is the suspect, Holly Winshaw, and Holly's father, Jim Winshaw, who is acting as appropriate adult." "You've been arrested on suspicion of criminal damage to a glass counter and the theft of two cans of pop." "Would you like to tell me what happened?" "What are you doing?" "!" "The sooner you start telling the truth, Holly, the sooner these men can get on with their real work... stop wasting their time on teenage idiots." "Call Daddy!" "Police, please." "Some girl's smashed up my shop." "She's robbed some cans." "Some cans of drink." "I didn't take no cans." "You alright?" "Want to come and chill at mine?" "I can't." "Yeah, you can." "Come on, you've never even been round yet!" "That's just rude, that is." "I've got to get home." "Well, come round later, then, yeah?" "141, the Wells Estate." "141, the Wells Estate." "Have you got it?" "Oi!" "Bell-end!" "Come back here!" "Holly?" "Go and get some rubber gloves, will you?" "What?" "Clean the bins out." "That waster from next door's been leaving all his crap in ours." "Hey." "I don't want you hanging round with folk from here." "You understand?" "Fuck's sake!" "Do you want a crumpet?" "He wants me to have no mates!" "He's got no clue what it's like." "What what's like?" "Rocking up at a new school." "What you looking for?" "He's told me to clean out t'bins." "Have a crumpet first." "alright." "Mum!" "I thought you were keeping an eye on her for me!" "It's not my fault!" "Yes, it was." "alright." "It's done now." "Hey!" "Holly!" "Yes." "Yes!" "Sick!" "Come in, come in, come in." "You alright?" "Yeah, you?" "This is going to be sick!" "You having a party?" "No, no, no, it's always like this here." "Come through." "I'll show you around." "That's me brother, Luke." "Johnny." "Nicky." "Megan." "No idea who SHE is." "And that's me dad." "Hiya." "So this..." "Through there, that's my dad's room." "That's the girls' room, don't worry about that." "That's the boys' room." "And this is the bog." "Can I get changed?" "Feel a twat in my uniform." "Nah, nah, nah, come here." "Come here." "Are you shagging him?" "Oh, for God's sake!" "You're not shagging him but he's trying to shag you." "These are me cousins." "Amber, Ruby." "This is Holly." "You can get changed in here if you want." "No." "Don't go in THERE." "Stay with me." "Stay with me." "You've come to see ME." "I can't do it." "Why?" "Cos your mouth hangin' open." "It's not!" "Yeah, it is." "You're like that." "Fuck off." "I'll do it meself." "I can't do it if I'm not hanging my mouth open." "It's impossible." "Here y'are." "Thanks." "Do you go to our school?" "Mine and Elliott's?" "I'm at special school." "I'm that special, I need me own school, and me own bus." "Special bus comes, and I have to sit with all the loonies who wave out the window like that." "Oi, can you pick up your knickers, you mingin' cow?" "Do you live round here?" "Used to." "Now we live on the other side of Rochdale." "But we don't know anyone there, though, so we're back here loads." "Where are you?" "Not far." "We were living in Derby but now we're here, cos my dad lost his business." "PHONE RINGS alright, Zoe." "Amber's doing a really long poo." "She says it's really jaggy so she's got to let it down dead slowly so as not to cut her arse." "That's shite." "We're being held hostage by Ruby's radioactive fucking pants." "Oi, where are you going?" "To get some food." "Oh, I'm starving," "I'll get my jacket and I'll come with you." "She'll bring you summat back." "Oi!" "Oi." "Hurry up, Zoe." "Wait." "This is Zoe." "No, no." "She was like, sit down, it's not the end of term yet, Ruby." "What?" "Yeah, it is." "And I was like, "There's one more day," ""what ya going to teach us in one more day?"" "The Lion, The Witch And The Who Gives A Fuck What's In The Wardrobe." "Here we are, Speedy Kebab." "Have you been here before?" "No." "Yo, yo, yo." "Hiya." "You alright, girls?" "Good, thank you." "Yeah." "Can I have a chip?" "Who's that?" "Tariq." "Amber's boyfriend." "That bloke from Granville Street." "Extra sauce again." "He's a bleeding ball-breaker." "Assalaamu Alaikum, master G." "Ruby!" "Hiya." "This is Daddy." "Whose Daddy?" "Not MY daddy." "Looks like Paki Santa!" "This is Holly." "It's a pleasure to meet you." "Hiya." "Would you like a doner?" "Or a drink?" "Come on, Pino." "You heard the lady." "Crack on." "alright, what you having?" "Can I have some chips, please?" "A slushie." "Can I have a burger?" "Yeah, same, please." "alright." "Here we are, girls." "Kebabs, chips, naan, garlic mayo." "Enjoy." "Get stuck in." "Oi!" "Thought you didn't like kebabs." "I do when they're free." "Anyway, enjoy." "Thank you!" "Bye!" "What's he giving us all this for free for?" "He's really nice." "He lives with his family in Oldham." "He does the deliveries for Speedy Kebab and Top Curry up the road." "This is absolute heaven." "Hiya." "Hiya." "Hiya. alright?" "Hiya, Daddy." "You alright?" "c:ffffffThey call me Stacey c:ffffffThey call me her c:ffffffThey call me Jane c:ffffffThat's not my name c:ffffffThey call me quiet girl c:ffffffBut I'm a riot c:ffffffMary, Jo, Lisa" "c:ffffffAlways the same..." "c:00ffffHere you are, my lovely girls." "Thank you!" "Are you not drinking?" "Cos of his religion, in't it?" "I don't need alcohol." "I'm happy to chill with you." "Chill." "Chill." "Chill." "c:ffffffThat's not my name c:ffffffThey call me quiet girl c:ffffffBut I'm a riot c:ffffffMary, Jo, Lisa c:ffffffAlways the same c:ffffffThat's not my name c:ffffffThey call me Bell" "c:ffffffThey call me Stacey c:ffffffThey call me her" "They call me Jane" "That's not my name" "That's not my name... #" "Bye, babe!" "Bye!" "See you!" "Bye!" "Bye!" "Bye!" "Bye!" "Why do you do it?" "Do what?" "The drinking, the stopping out all the time, all that effing and blinding at your dad." "You're making all us lives more miserable, Holly, 'specially mine." "Right, well, shall I just fuck off, then, altogether?" "How many nights is that?" "Can you stop going on with yourself?" "In fact, can you not even start?" "Look at the state of you!" "You're a disgrace." "Do you know that?" "All I'm doing is having a laugh with me mates." "Hiya." "Um, could I have some condoms?" "Is it for sex?" "Why you askin' that?" "!" "Because you look the kind who's going to go outside, fill 'em with water and chuck 'em round the car park." "I'm not." "I'm not." "What size you after?" "Large." "Now I KNOW you're lying." "Here you go." "Cheers." "Hiya." "Y'alright?" "I need some condoms." "Von?" "Amber's away." "What about you?" "She don't need none." "She's the blow job queen." "Piss off." "Give her extra-large ones, she only goes with men with big cocks." "Can you sort it?" "Here you go, you two." "Hiya." "I'm Sara." "Hiya." "I'm Holly." "And do YOU need anything?" "No." "I want to go on the implant." "Does it hurt?" "Shouldn't do." "Who're you sleeping with?" "Pakis!" "Oi!" "My boyfriend." "Tariq." "We're going Top Curry." "Daddy's got vodka." "Who's Daddy?" "Ruby's old man." "Me mate." "See you." "This "Daddy"..." "Do we know him?" "Well, Zoe, when she was hanging about with Lottie and Isla and all that, it was all about Saj." "Saj and Bilal." "I don't remember a "Daddy"." "What about Tariq?" "Nah." "Whay, Top Curry!" "Coochy-coochy coo!" "alright, trouble. alright." "Hiya." "Hello, all my favourite girls!" "I am getting absolutely wankered tonight." "Like black-out wasted." "Oi!" "Dylan McBride, year 10!" "There's a chip in your hood." "Here you are, girls." "Tell you what, girls, going to make some vodka luge tonight, what do you say?" "What the hell is vodka luge?" "Well, you make ice out of vodka, and then you eat it." "Oh, come on, Holly!" "Absolutely incredible!" "What you doing that for?" "Gets you drunk quicker." "She's arseholed!" "Want some chips?" "Stop that!" "Oi." "What you doing?" "!" "Stop it now!" "What're you doing, ya mad cow?" "!" "Oh, my God!" "Your mate is mental!" "I know." "She's nuts." "Summat funny?" "Yeah, you." "How you stand there like a statue." "A mardy fucking statue." "How long do you think you can get away this for?" "With what?" "Treating this family, this house, me, with total and utter contempt?" "Why do you have to be like that?" "Get back in the house!" "Why does everything have to be so miserable?" "Holly!" "Get back in the house now!" "At me mates', there's no-one standing at the window waiting to kick off." "Is that right?" "Well, if you like it so much, why don't you go and live there, then?" "Fine." "I will." "Go on!" "Coming out to get some breakfast?" "Hiya." "You want some jiggy jiggy?" "No!" "CHUCKLING" "Oh, come on." "As if." "Get off!" "Get off!" "You coming up?" "'Come into the other room with me." "'Why?" "'I want to talk to you about something.'" "Can't you talk to me here?" "I want to talk to you in private." "When are you going to let me have sex with you?" "I'm not." "All the things I've given you." "Kebabs, tikka, vodka, cigarettes." "All for free." "It's part of the deal." "I buy you things and you give me things." "Now it's your turn to give something to me." "We're friends." "Yeah." "And friends do things for each other." "Don't cry." "You are beautiful." "No." "No." "Look..." "You're my bitch now... ..and if you cross me..." "..I'll kill you." "There's someone in." "It's Amber." "He stinks, doesn't he?" "Like curry." "He's not as bad as Chef, though, he's hanging, he is." "He's always got food in his teeth." "Don't let them kiss you." "I never take my top off or nothing." "No way would I let 'em touch my tits." "Do you know what Rochdale needs?" "Another Subway." "Why?" "There's nowhere to go." "Are you joking?" "Subway." "Like subs." "Like food." "You're hanging, aren't you?" "I need to feed you, like now." "Get in." "We're just going for us breakfast." "Get in." "Don't cross me." "You." "Out." "No." "I'll come with you." "You, stay." "Amber, out." "It's cool." "I'll see you in a bit." "So we've got one for..." "Hey!" "Hey." "You want some jiggy jiggy?" "No." "No." "Oh, come on." "Let me touch your puddy." "Get off me!" "Get off me!" "Come on!" "Get off me!" "Get off me!" "Get off me!" "Call Daddy!" "Right." "Interview concluded at 10.48pm." "You'll get a court summons for the criminal damage charge through the post." "He raped me." "What?" "Who did?" "The delivery driver." "Where did he do that to you, Holly?" "In Top Curry." "And in a car park." "Do you still have the clothes you were wearing?" "Yeah." "The underwear?" "Yeah." "That's good." "We need things like that, you see, because they might be evidence." "When did this happen?" "Friday." "And then you went home?" "No." "I was staying with mates." "The car park?" "You were saying something about a car park?" "That were today." "You're going to need to help me." "You're saying someone's raped you on Friday, you stayed the night with a pal, and then the same man's raped you again the next day?" "How did he get you to the car park?" "Car." "Whose car?" "His." "So he forced you into his car?" "Did he force you into his car, Holly?" "No." "I just went." "You're raped..." "You're raped once." "You don't walk back into it, do you?" "You don't go back for more, do you?" "These are the clothes the police wanted." "Do you understand what you've come to talk to me about today?" "Yeah." "OK, and what do YOU think that's about?" "About...what happened at..." "..with the men at Top Curry." "About what happened with the men at Top Curry." "OK." "Obviously, I've got to ask you some questions about what they actually did to you during the sex, OK?" "It hurt, because I didn't want to do it." "Because I'd only, like, had sex a couple of times before that." "Say again, sorry?" "Erm...cos I'd only had sex, like, a couple of times before that." "Now, obviously that's something that's going to be important for me to cover." "How many times prior to this..." "This is the first time that anything happened with the people from there, yeah?" "How many other times had you had sex before?" "I want you to come home, Holly." "Stop here till we get this sorted, will you?" "Please." "Shabir Ahmed?" "Yes." "We're arresting you on suspicion of rape." "Right." "Who wants a drink?" "Juice, please!" "Milk, please." "I'll help you." "'You have one new message." "'Holly, I'm outside your house.'" "Don't come here." "Don't text me or ring me or nothing." "Just leave me alone!" "Daddy's out." "No, he's not." "He got arrested." "Well, he's out on bail now and he knows it was you." "'That fucking little witch, your friend." "'You tell her I'm coming for her." "'You better tell her I'm coming to her house now, 'and I'm going to drag her out of there and I'm going to kill her.'" "You can't stay here." "You can't." "He says he's going to rape your sisters and burn your house down." "Come on, Holly." "We need to sort it." "We're going to sort it." "If you tell the cops you made it up, they'll drop the charges and he'll leave you alone." "Slags!" "You fucking slags!" "I know you're fucking in there." "Come out, you fucking slags!" "I'm going to kill you!" "Daddy's here and he's going mad." "Can you come round?" "Now." "Yeah, now." "You know what these fucking bitches have fucking done?" "They have gone to the station and spoken to the police about me." "Calm down." "Calm down." "Tariq's told him to fuck right off." "Done." "He practically left skiddies on the road, he ran off so fast." "Don't worry, yeah?" "C'mon." "Let's do one." "Come on!" "Holly, it'll be fine." "Come on." "Where we going?" "Party." "Where?" "Where's Ruby and Zoe?" "Dunno." "Well, fucking find out and we'll pick 'em up." "Where are you?" "We're going to come and get you." "We're with Tariq." "Hiya, Billy." "Are you 'avin' some beer?" "Yeah, OK." "Come and see what there is." "It's quite warm in here, isn't it?" "Have summat cold." "There you go." "Ugh, that is hanging." "You're going with him." "You're going with him." "Holly, you're going with him." "Amber, you're going with them two." "I'll be back after, yeah?" "alright?" "I'm off." "Cheers, bro." "I'm not going with anyone." "Yeah, you are." "You're with him." "You'll be alright with him cos he's good-looking." "No." "I'll go." "No." "I want her." "Holly..." "You have to." "I'm ringing Tariq." "Fuck's sake!" "Will you just fucking do it?" "Go." "With him." "Now." "She'll do it." "Good girl." "Ruby." "Ruby, wake up." "See you." "Holly?" "Holly?" "Holly, love." "Please, sweetheart!" "Can you come down?" "You're alright, they've gone." "# Ole!" "Ole ole ole ole... #" "Ruby, can you get down, please, or else I'm going to have to ask you to leave." "Fuck off." "Oi!" "Oi!" "Get down from there, and don't speak to Sara like that." "It's Holly, in't it?" "Is there a loo here?" "Yeah." "It's just over there." "Amber, why don't you go in with Yvonne?" "Just waiting on Holly." "You go in with Yvonne and Holly can come in with me when she's ready." "No." "Where she goes, I go." "We're mates." "We stick together." "Yvonne, will you have a word?" "Oi." "You're hyper today." "Why are you hyper?" "I'm not." "I'm knackered." "Why's that?" "Been out." "Where to?" "Dunno." "I was drunk." "It was dead funny, right, cos Billy videoed me dancing naked and put it on the internet, and now I'm famous in Pakistan." "Who's Billy?" "Me boyfriend." "Billy what?" "Dunno." "If he's your boyfriend, do you not think it's a bit strange you don't know his last name?" "Assalaamu Alaikum." "Yeah." "Taxi." "Come on, Amber, we're going." "Holly?" "Older Asian men, vulnerable young girls." "It's happening again." "Well, course it is." "Why would it have gone away?" "The police and social services have never done a thing about it." "Do you think Billy's that Bilal from before?" "I don't know." "It's all fake names, in't it?" "He was everyone's boyfriend, wasn't he?" "Where are we?" "Olivia, Megan, Katy, Poppy." "It was all sunshine and presents till they were getting plastic bags over their heads while four men fucked them up the arse." "I want us recording what's going on with these girls." "Every name they mention, every address, every physical description." "We are going to be shit hot." "We're going to get all the evidence and we're telling everyone what we know." "There's a problem in Rochdale, with kids, with really vulnerable kids, being groomed for sex by much older men." "We know it's going on because the kids are coming in and telling us." "I've got the girls' names, details of the perpetrators, and there's a diagram which shows how these cases might link to past cases of this kind of abuse in Rochdale." "What I would say on behalf of the police is we are aware of the problem, but it's not an easy one to deal with." "These are girls with chaotic lives." "And when we do go out and pick 'em up from kebab houses and the like, they don't want to come." "They want to stay where they are." "We're talking about 13-, 14-year-old girls, with men in their 30s, 40s and 50s." "If I can speak to that from a social services point of view..." "Unless abuse is taking place within the family, it's not something we'd get involved in." "Ruby and Amber Bowen are on the child protection register, Sara." "That family's surrounded by workers." "It don't matter if they've got a fleet of staff, does it, if it's not making any difference to what's going on." "These are streetwise girls, Sara." "Would it make a difference if I told you what kind of sex they were having?" "Anal, no condom, no lube." "Giving out blow jobs like sweets." "Plied with vodka, can't remember, so not in a position to give consent." "13-year-old, learning needs, tells me she's famous in Pakistan because she's been videoed dancing naked and it's been put on the internet." "And what do you want us to do, Sara?" "What it is, Jillian, I'm a sexual health worker." "My job is to offer sex-and-relationship education, make sure a young person's contraception's sorted, and to share information if I think a young person's at risk, so here I am, sharing information, telling you that there are young people at risk." "And if you think I'm pecking your 'ead, it's cos I am." "Because you're the ones with the statutory power to do something about it." "Eh, here she comes." "Is that your jumper on her, knobhead?" "You look lovely, don't you, Georgie-Pie?" "You ready for school tomorrow?" "Yeah." "Do us a favour, actually..." "Get that for me, will you?" "We're going to have strawberry and..." "Hiya." "My God, Holly, look at you." "I need my uniform." "School starts tomorrow." "Get up them stairs." "I don't want the little 'uns seeing you." "Get up there now." "Go on, get in the bath or something." "Do you want me to get naked for you, Dad?" "What did you say?" "What did you say to me?" "Hiya, Holly." "Hiya." "Holly." "Go upstairs and get her uniform." "Is she going to school like that?" "Do as you're told!" "Shall I do a prossie dance for you?" "Look." "What are you doing?" "Jim!" "Jim, Jim, Jim!" "Get off!" "Holly!" "Holly, please." "Holly, please." "Please don't go." "Holly, do not go back there, please." "Holly!" "Holly!" "Read the question." "Sounds obvious, but it's the number one thing that even the most well-prepared candidates fail to do." "80 marks for the whole paper." "40 marks for section A." "Here y'are." "Where's Zoe?" "Zoe don't live in Rochdale no more." "Well, who else, then?" "Ring some others." "Hurry up." "Like who?" ""Like who?"" "Like who?" "Like I don't fucking know who." "Like fucking younger." "Like not a fucking skank." "Hurry the fuck up." "Right." "Fuck it." "I'm meant to get more money." "Good one." "Right." "No, for Tariq." "You've got to give me more money." "Fuck off." "Give it me." "Give it me or I'll tell, I'll tell on the lot of you!" "Fucking slag!" "Where the fuck are we?" "I can't walk no more." "Is it Tariq?" "See that?" "You tell anyone, I'll come to Rochdale and I'll fucking kill you." "Bradford." "We're in fucking Bradford." "Holly Winshaw's pregnant." "Yeah, well, I'm going to tell her to go home tonight and talk to her family and we'll go round in morning and help her explain things to her mum and dad." "Yeah, w..." "How're you fixed for ten?" "My name's Caroline Wallace and this is my colleague." "You know why we're here, Holly?" "About the baby." "The baby, yes." "And about your lifestyle choice." "Lifestyle choice?" "What are you talking about?" "We've had information from Sexual Health that Holly has been working as a prostitute." "No, I haven't." "Dad, I haven't." "If that carries on, I have to tell you that we'd need to do a pre-birth assessment, and that could mean us taking the baby into care as soon as it's born." "Why did you do it?" "What?" "Why did you tell 'em that I'm a prostitute?" "Tell 'em what?" "!" "Hey, wait a min..." "Who's told 'em that?" "He's calling me a slag." "I'm never coming back here." "Who are you?" "What you come to tell me now?" "Sorry, I'm a little bit confused by what's gone on here." "I was meant to meet a colleague here at ten o'clock." "Well, you missed 'er." "She's been and gone." "Could I come in, please?" "She's not a prostitute." "We don't know what to think." "We don't know who to believe." "Listen to me." "Holly is categorically not a prostitute." "Is not now and never has been." "Cos there's no such thing as a child prostitute." "What there is is a child who's being abused." "By who?" "By men who pick on vulnerable girls." "The scum she hangs round with, they're vulnerable, they might need food and attention, but Holly..." "We..." "We lost our house." "What's that got to do with anything?" "We haven't been in a good state, really." "Rachel's fine." "Rachel's fantastic." "They're all four very different, Jim, but Holly's the shyest and most sensitive of the lot." "She's the brightest an' all, so I expect more." "I can't take this in." "You're saying she's been abused." "Being abused." "She's still in it." "Why didn't she just come home?" "Cos she's ashamed and she's confused and because she's bloody terrified." "The men who do this, they have total control over these kids." "The baby..." "Whose...?" "Is it one of theirs?" "She doesn't know." "Do you know how it works with young people?" "Trust takes time." "This is not appropriate." "I'll tell you what's not appropriate, telling Holly Winshaw's family that she's a prostitute." "How does that help that kid?" "By making sure it's not left with an unsuitable mother." "Eh?" "I'm talking about Holly!" "Not the baby." "Not the unborn baby, but the 15-year-old kid, Holly." "Ah, do you know, it's like one of them Magic Eye posters." "Me and you, we're looking at the same thing, but where I am seeing kids being turned inside out by abusers, all you lot are seeing is slags who bring it on themselves." "OK, Holly." "Holly, I want you to go to the police." "No way." "Let's stop this." "You and me." "Now." "I'm not going to the police." "Cos you're scared of what they said they might do to you?" "Cos I done it already." "Nothing happened." "Just got worse." "Tell ME." "Tell me everything you want the police to know." "I want you to read that." "If you're happy it's what you've told me," "I want you to sign every page." "I'll run you home." "I'm not going home." "I CAN'T go home." "Where've you been?" "To get some clean clothes." "Where are they, then?" "Go and put 'em on." "Go and get changed." "Tariq's on his way." "I'm not going out." "Yeah, you are." "Yeah, you fucking are." "I'll get battered if you don't." "Please, love, I just want to speak to you." "Fucking town crier's back." "Here, mate, will you fuck off?" "She's not here." "Please, love." "I'll hold me hands up, Holly." "I was wrong from start to finish." "I'm sorry." "Please." "Holly!" "I can't talk here." "I want you to come home." "Please." "I've gone to the police." "I don't know what they're going to do to us." "Who?" "Who?" "The men." "They'll do nothing to us." "You hear me?" "They'll do nothing." "Come home with us and we'll sort this, I promise you." "We'll sort it." "We're arresting you on suspicion of inciting girls to prostitution." "She's 15." "15 in a cell." "How many victims?" "47." "We're drowning in it." "This entire operation stands and falls on us being able to re-engage these girls." "This is the biggest operation GMP's running." "What do you think's been happening to those girls in the meantime?" "He loved me." "You're a pointless fucking bitch, do you know that?" "What's so different about you?" "I've talked to them and talked to them, and then they turn round and call me a liar." "Transcribed by Uncle Andy"