" There was nothing extraordinary about the fact" "That you lose the people that you love," "'Cause it's gonna happen to all of us." "It's just that it happened in this targeted community" "Of people who were disenfranchised" "And separated from their families," "And a whole group of other people stepped up" "And became their family." " We are not some network of people" "Who just like to have sex." "We are not some ephemeral subculture" "That comes and dissolves and goes." "This is a community that was tested" "In a way almost no community on earth is ever tested," "And succeeded in what it was trying to do," "Which is save as many lives of people as it could," "Stop civil rights attacks," "And then try to use that example" "To transform the world." "If you're ever facing a natural disaster" "As extraordinary as aids was" "In the last quarter of the last century," "You should be so lucky as to be in a community" "Like the queer community of san francisco." " When i talk to young people, particularly," "They'll say, "what was it like?"" "I mean, the only thing i can liken it to is a war zone," "But most of us have never lived in a war zone." "But it was... you never knew where the bomb was gonna drop." "I decided to do this interview because... i've...i've been around for the entire epidemic," "And i've seen so many parts of it," "And i think there's a lot of people from" "I mean, none of my friends are around." "From the beginning." "So i want to tell their story" "As much as i want to tell my story." "I think that's why." " I came to san francisco" "Back in the late '70s." "You know, there were more gay people coming here." "There was all these love children." "It was right at the end of the hippies, you know," "And everybody, i mean, if you had a bus ticket," "It better be saying "san francisco," you know," "Because that was the place to come." "I was the dancer." "I thought i could dance better than anybody on the west coast." "Center stage, i would get up there," "I'd climb up on that stage," "And i'd dance myself into a frenzy." "Every sunday night at the tea dance." "And if you got too close," "You might slip off the stage," "Because you were too close to me." "But i thought i had it going on." "My dad said one day that i should sell flowers." "That's a good business." "And i thought, "i'm gonna sell flowers in san francisco,"" "Because, you know, they've got these songs," "Where have all the flowers gone?" "And "if you're going to san francisco," "Wear a flower in your hair," and... so i was ready for it." "A friend of mine came up in a pickup" "And took me right over into the castro" "On 15th and noe, and i've been there for 28 years." ""Hey, i'm one of the family members," you know." ""Come buy my flowers."" "So i would put up these rainbow flags," "And i--You know, and you could see 'em from a block away." "If you looked down the street." "You could just see that little ribbon." "Until all the colors faded." " I always knew i was gonna come out to the bay area." "And i think a lot of us came out here" "Because we didn't quite fit where we were." "Back in college, i helped start the first woman's newspaper." "Uh, we started the first childcare center." "Stuff like that." "So i was very involved." "We had a women's center on haight street," "So i started going to the women's center," "And we sat around and said," ""Let's open up a women's clinic,"" "And then we just did it." "It was the era of illegal abortions." "It was a time when we, as women," "Weren't as educated about our body." "I was getting a little older," "My late--Later 20s," "And i thought, "eileen," "You might want a real job sometime,"" "So i thought, "i'll just go to nursing school" "And see how i feel about it."" "And, uh, i loved it." "I loved bedside nursing." "Once i started working in the hospital," "There were all these gay men," "And it was really fun," "'Cause we'd go clubbing together." "To the i-Beam, to the stud." "You know, places like that." "I'd dance and go home and go to sleep." "So, you know, we had a good time." "It was, like, really fun." "Unfortunately, none of those guys are alive today." " You know, it's the--The end of the hippy era in america," "And i was a queer kid who-- Who was different," "Didn't really know what to do," "And basically left buffalo, new york," "And hitchhiked around the country" "For a number of years with the guy i was sleeping with," "And deliberately tried to be free," "It was our-- Sort of our goal," "And i remember at one point thinking," ""Well, i've got nothing but the backpack and my boyfriend."" "And we literally actually had nothing." ""I guess we must be free."" "And it was that sort of mentality" "That we were pursuing." "A phrase that i've sort of come to like" "Is "crazy dreamers,"" "And i was--At that time," "I thought san francisco and california" "Was full of crazy dreamers," "And that was where i wanted to be." "I belonged to a little commune" "Of leftover '60s folks," "Who were trying to establish an alternative lifestyle," "And i was struggling with was i gay," "Was i bisexual, you know, what is going on." "So i come out of the closet," "In this terrifying moment of coming to the gay student union" "In san jose state in september of 1975," "And the minute i walked through the door," "And i'm sure most gay men of my generation," "Most queer people are gonna have a similar experience." "It was like you're home." "It's, like, it all felt familiar." "It all seemed like, "oh." "How did i not realize this is where i was supposed to be?"" " My father really wanted me to get a master's degree," "And i really didn't care," "So the compromise was i would go to san francisco state," "'Cause san francisco was where i wanted to be." "I liked the people here." "They just seemed more open." "And i always wanted to meet a nice blond surfer." "When i moved out to california," "I was still in the closet." "I didn't come out of the closet until after college." "Um, i came out with a bang." "I was in a production ofthe boys in the band." "For quite a few years, i was a bit of a workaholic." "I was in my studio all the time." "By the time i was 27," "I was having one-Man shows in new york," "At galleries-- Good galleries in new york." "And i didn't know it was supposed to be that easy." "It was just easy." "And i was pretty obsessed with my work," "And i was for quite a long time." "And--Until i got sick, really." "I was first living in the haight," "And i remember walking down haight street," "And there was this guy handing out leaflets on the corner," "And it was harvey." "It was his first campaign," "First time he was running," "And he introduced himself and i talked to him," "So i went to work for him." "And i was handing out leaflets." "And, you know, door hangers and things like that." "And that was very exciting," "'Cause i had been somewhat political in college." "I'd gotten sick of it," "Because all my roommates were s.D.S.," "And it was very militant." "And harvey was just a lot gentler," "And a lot more fun." "My partner at that time, steve," "Was also fairly political." "Any time there was a march or a demonstration" "Or a candlelight thing, we were always there." "Um, it was important to us." "Those were the things" "That made us feel connected to the community." "Castro street was just starting to happen," "And you would always run into people you knew," "And it really felt like a village," "And the castro just started to feel" "Like the village you always wanted." " If you took a bunch of young men" "And said, "have as much sex as you can have,"" "How much sex would they have?" "A lot of sex." "The sense was if gay is good, gay sex is good, you know?" "And more gay sex is even better." "And people often say of-- Of my generation," "We came to san francisco to be gay." " I remember, like, january, 1977," "I went right down to castro street." "Here i've lived in greenwich village all these years." ""This--This is gonna be amazing."" "And i went down, and, yeah, as you know," "It's, like, one block long," "And, like, a block in either direction." "And, like, there were a lot of gay men." "And, as with any group of people," "It was already pretty quickly falling into little cliques." "You know, there was, like, this kind of military look," "And the kind of the" "The outdoorsmen look," "And there was a preppy look," "And there was already this, like, kind of western look," "And a leather look." "It was already starting to happen." "People quickly identifying as certain male images," "And i, you know, i just didn't, like, fit in." "There wasn't, like, a long-Haired," "High-Voiced basketball look, or something, you know?" "I was just kind of me." "I mean, i tried." "I would go and pick up guys and bring them home," "And, like, they would want to go" "From zero to 60 so fast." "I couldn't do it." "I was terrible at anonymous sex." "I didn't know how to go, like..." ""all right."" "You know, i just-- I couldn't do it." "I was like, "hi, my name's ed." "Who are you?"" "You know, and it just" "It didn't..." "it didn't click." " I tend to be somebody who has a partner" "Almost my whole life," "But i've always been in open relationships," "So my sexual outlet was always the bath houses," "And they were there, and they were fun." "And i would go with my friends." "It wasn't, like, something i would sneak out" "And go on my own." "It was--It was something of an outing." "We would go with friends." "I remember coming out of one bath house," "At, like, 3:00 in the morning," "And walking home across the city in the middle of the night," "And just thinking," ""Gee, if my mother could see me now," "She'd be just shocked,"" "But it just felt so good." "It was, like, a club," "And we--We called it church." "It was going to church." " Part of it, you're having sex to have fun." "Part of it, you're having sex to find love." "Part of it, you're having sex to, uh... to--To rebel against the people" "Who said you couldn't have sex." "All of america was feeling very confident" "That you could be much more sexual," "And that was okay." "Venereal diseases and unwanted pregnancies," "It's all curable with a shot or a pill" "Or something to that effect." "It's may of 1979," "And the verdict has come down," "A verdict on dan white for the murder of harvey milk," "And we're all at city hall protesting." "There's this enormous rage." "Thousands of people arrive." "The police attack." "We're tear-Gassed, we're beaten." "Police cars are burned." "So this is not a community" "That's feeling really good about the political establishment" "Going into the 1980s." "The next night is harvey's birthday party," "And so the streets close off," "Tens of thousands of people show up," "And they give very, very angry speeches." "Anne kronenberg gives a very fierce speech," "And at the end of her speech," "She starts a chant, "welcome to the '80s," "Welcome to the '80s."" "We couldn't know, of course," "That even then hiv was present." "Hiv arrived first in san francisco" "Probably in '76," "And by 1979, probably 10%" "Of the gay men in that crowd were infected." "And by the time we discover" "That there is such a thing," "Aids is even happening, in june of '81," "Roughly 20% are infected." "By the time we actually get the test," "So people can find out if they're infected," "Close to 50% of the gay men of san francisco" "Are already infected." " '81 was a big year." "I landed a really good job," "And, for the first time," "I was part of a large office staff" "With a lot of other gay men." "I was finishing my graduate degree in creative writing." "I went to europe." "I had this great job." "All these new gay men i was working with." "And, um, i felt like," ""Oh, the '80s." "Something's gonna shift."" "Like, i moved to new york in '71." "Now i'm really here in san francisco in '81." "And--And so that is when everything changed," "Because that was, you know, that was the year in the castro." "Running down, i'll never forget," "I went to the castro theatre." "Great double feature." "Two--I think it was, uh," "It was, like, now, voyagerandcasablanca" "On the big screen," "And i remember, like, running down to the" "The old star pharmacy," "'Cause we're gonna smoke some pot," "And we didn't have any papers." "And i remember looking in the... i remember looking in the window of star pharmacy," "And there were these little polaroid photographs" "That this young man had made of himself." "There were at least three, maybe four of them." "The first one was like this." "And inside... these big, purple splotches." "And then there was another picture," "And he had taken his shirt, and pulled it up like this." "It was of his chest," "Big purple splotches." "They were just on the window," "And underneath, there was a hand-Written note" "That said something like, "watch out, guys." "There's something out there."" "Something like that." "And, uh, oh, my god." "It made..." "huge impact on me." "And then, like, i was really stoned," "And i went and watched the movie, and... but the whole movie" "I was just thinking about that." "It really made an impact on me." "I went to see the movies with a friend of mine named michael," "And he and i worked together," "And he had woken up kind of recently" "With this, like, red splotch in his eye." "And he kept going, like, "what is this?" "What is this?"" "And, um, he, um, he had been going to the eye doctor," "And they hadn't been able to figure out what it was," "And..." "[sighs]" "You know, i... it turned out to be ks." "He had ks in his eye." "So it was right there in the movie line with us." "Like, already." "Like, it was already there." " The pictures show the progression" "Of how a few red bumps" "Turn into the mark of kaposi's sarcoma." "It's a rare cancer normally found in the elderly," "But now it's striking young men," "Most of whom are gay, like bobbi campbell." "After one month, tests are still being done" "On the red bumps on his foot." " I don't know how i got it." "I fit the profile of kind of a typical kaposi's patient" "In my age, and that i'm gay, and... but i don't know how i got it." " The first time i heard about aids," "I think it was called the gay cancer." "It was ks." "It was terrifying." "And we had friends who were dying" "Right at the beginning of the epidemic." "I mean, this one person who helped my career greatly," "Who was a curator of the brooklyn museum," "Gave me a show at the brooklyn museum," "And he died before the show happened," "And that was-- We--Now looking back," "I know he died of aids," "But back then there was no name for it." " I was hanging blood one day in the hospital," "And this was, you know," "Before the times that you wore gloves." "And the infectious disease fellow" "Came in and said, "eileen, why don't you put gloves on?" "We don't know what this is."" " I was selling flowers at that time," "And there was a guy down the street." "Five days." "One day he went to the hospital," "Five days later, he was dead." " I'm looking through the gay periodicals," "And in one of them, new cancer described." "And so i'm aware something has occurred." "And i noted" "I think everybody who was paying attention to the community" "Noted, "well, this could be something to pay attention to,"" "And so we--I did." " People were coming in with pneumocystis pneumonia," "Who were quite well, you know, one day." "You know, uh, out there swimming, playing tennis." "You know, buffed." "Coming in and-- Were dying." "I mean, were dead ten days later." "People would come in with kaposi's sarcoma." "There might be one little legion or two little legions," "And they would grow." "And maybe a legion would cut off circulation in their leg," "And their leg would balloon up," "Or maybe it would get into their lung," "And they couldn't breathe." "And maybe they would just waste away." " Very early, certainly within the first 18 months," "I assumed that a number of my friends were likely infected," "And probably myself and" "And all the people in my group were infected." "[Dramatic music]" "♪ ♪" " From the beginning," "I just couldn't stand the homophobia" "And the prejudice that was going on," "And the fear." "There was incredible fear, right?" "These people were coming in and dying," "And nobody knew what it was," "And people get afraid." "There were people who were afraid to go into rooms," "And so i found myself going into the rooms." "If you're not a family member, they wouldn't talk to you," "So if somebody's partner was in there," "The doctors might not explain to them what was going on." "So i found myself talking to them." "It was a weird time in the hospital," "Because they didn't want to be associated" "As an "aids hospital,"" "Because no one would want to come to the hospital" "If they knew we were an "aids hospital."" "So there was a lot of struggle there." "I remember my mom." "She was saying, "why do you have to do this?"" "You know, 'cause i've already put my mom" "Through lots of stuff." "And i remember saying to her," ""Mom, it didn't choose" "I didn't choose it." "It chose me."" "'Cause you're there," "And this terrible thing is happening," "And you're a nurse, and you can help," "And sometimes that's just helping somebody die," "But i, you know, i couldn't turn my back to it." " Something was happening." "That these gay men were showing up" "At places like united way," "Looking for a support group," "Or, um... uh...social services." "Because they had no... they had no family." "I saw an ad in thebay area reporter." "Shanti project was looking for people" "Who'd be willing to be a buddy to someone with this illness." "And i took the second shanti volunteer training" "That occurred here in san francisco," "And i got matched with someone immediately." "I hadn't met a person with aids yet" "Who was just kind of, like, off on his own, and... like, expecting... that someone was gonna come, and, like, help him." "And, um... i just remember going to his apartment, and... just him opening the door, and... he said his name was ed." "I said my name was ed too." "And, you know, like, lo and behold," "My way of being with gay men" "Suddenly... was perfect." "Like, "hi."" "Like, "who are you?" "How are you doing?"" "I took my training in july of '83," "And of course i was close to all these gay men." "There were seven gay men working in this office," "And i was coming in and telling them, like," ""Oh, my god..."" "And, you know, they think it's transmitted sexually," "And they're thinking condoms is a way to protect us," "And they're telling us don't use poppers." "And i go, "it's already, like, disseminating information."" "Back then, especially," "There was this whole dynamic about" "How are you getting it?" "Who are you getting it from?" "Who's giving it to who?" "Um, in that little office," "Some of that feeling, like," "I'm pretty sure they had all had sex with one another." "But, once again, in my kind of mismatched way," "I hadn't had sex with any of them." "Um... they all... they all got infected." "And they all died except one." " My partner, steve, was an immunology researcher." "We'd been together for quite a while," "Probably about eight years." "And, all of a sudden," "People were coming to him" "And asking him to explain what's going on," "And it was interesting." "I mean, his self esteem sort of turned around," "Because he was a holder of very important information." "He ended up working in jay levy's lab," "Which was one of the most important" "Aids research labs in the world." "We got tested because steve took my blood" "And brought it into jay levy's lab," "So we were, like, some of the first people" "Who knew that we were actually positive," "'Cause the test wasn't even available." "When steve came back from jay levy's lab" "And told me that we were both hiv positive," "It--My life changed completely." "Um, i--I had had five people working for me," "Um, and i let them go," "And, luckily, i had saved some money," "And i just started doing sculpture." " Here am i, the kid from san jose," "I'm up here, i'm now the vice president" "Of some little gay democratic club" "Where maybe 15 or 20 people show up," "And suddenly the community starts to die" "Of these extraordinary, horrible diseases," "And they want help." ""How do we--" You know, "how do we keep 'em alive?" ""How do we make sure they don't die of starvation" "Because they can't cook?" "How do we--"" "Meanwhile, there's all these attacks that are occurring." "Meanwhile, there's this tremendous debate" "Within the community about" ""Well, maybe these are all wrong decisions." "Maybe we shouldn't be sexually free."" "Maybe--And all these other debates are occurring." "But it's occurring-- The leadership, such as it is," "Is guys like me, who are suddenly," "In this little group," "Were forced to deal with this unbelievable circumstance" "Of a community that, in addition to being hated and under attack," "Is now forced alone to try to figure out" "How to deal with this extraordinary medical disaster." "People would see my picture in theb.A.R." "And come up to me and say, "i was diagnosed." "What do i do?" ""Do you know a doctor?" "What do i do?" ""Is it true, you know, this might occur?" "What do i do?"" "We held a series of town hall meetings," "And a group called mobilization against aids was created." "And i was their first e.D.," "And that's sort of how i formally enter into aids work." "Mobilization's purpose was to demand a greater response" "To the hiv aids pandemic." "The first response was to try to take care of the sick." "That's the first response." "The second response was to try to stop people," "Um, from getting infected." "The third response was-- How do we advocate?" "How do we now get other people involved" "To be able to generate resources?" "We are here to try to spark across the land" "General citizen support for the actions that are being led" "So overwhelmingly by people with aids," "To try to get the nation to move" "Into an effective response of this epidemic." "We lead a delegation of people with aids to washington." "Here's guys, very sick," "They're in end sta-- By definition," "They're in end-Stage aids." "There is no treatments to-- To speak of." "Maybe there's some experimental treatments" "They're starting to get." "And here they are, flying on planes," "Going across the country with no money," "Sleeping four to a room" "To be able to go do opping." "And my experience is," "My belief is, all those folks thought they would die." "None of them thought they would survive aids." "They were doing it because they thought" "In so doing they would make it" "So other people from the community and beyond" "Were able to live." "And that happened many, many, many times," "Where people with aids would just do extraordinary things." "That's who was, in fact, leading the response." " When he went to the hospital, i followed him there." "So i went to 5-B," "Which was right here at san francisco general hospital," "To--To visit him, as a shanti volunteer." "And 5-B was a seven-Bed unit," "An old intensive care unit that had been turned into" "The first aids-Dedicated hospital unit in the world." "And everybody who worked there was there on a volunteer basis." "1983, which they weren't sure how it was transmitted." "So they didn't want anybody working there" "Who was gonna have contagion issues." "So they wanted to make sure here at san francisco general" "That you were not gonna be coming from that kind of fear." "You'd be volunteering to work here." "This is where i started encountering," "Like, lesbians, coming and working on the aids unit" "With all these gay men who were dying." "It was so moving, because certainly gay men" "Were not making a whole lot of room for lesbians." "Let's put it that way." "Back then." "Um... so i got this sense of this group of people" "Who were really caring for these men who were dying." " Steve became more and more obsessed" "With trying to find out what the latest treatments were." "He wanted to save our lives." "He wanted to figure out, you know," "You know, how we were gonna beat this thing." "And he found out about a study" "That was done in africa with a drug called suramin." "And they were doing" "They were doing the study here at san francisco general," "And he got us both into the study." "Across the country, there was, like, three study sites." "There were, like, 80 people in the study." "And the drug was hideous." "It was..." "you'd go in," "And it was, like, two hours of i.V.," "And for the next two days," "You literally felt like you'd been run over by a truck." "And i was a wuss." "And i--I just-- After a month of this," "I just said, "i can't take this."" "It's just, you know... i was just-- It just made me so sick," "And i hated it." "But steve just kept on going," "And he had had chronic hepatitis b" "From a needle stick that he'd gotten in a lab" "When he was working in a lab," "And it activated his hepatitis." "And within" "We started, i think, the study in july." "He quit the study in october." "And he was... he was dead by january." "It was really quick." "Um... and everybody in that study died except for me." "'Cause i was a wuss." "I couldn't take it." "And i'm so glad i took care of myself that way." "But i talked to a doctor in the study afterwards," "And they had a meeting of all the doctors" "And people who had" "Researchers across the country" "Who had been involved in the study," "And he said he never... he'd never been in a room of doctors sobbing before." "They had lost all their patients." "Very quickly." "So that was one of the first disasters in aids treatment," "I think, that really made everybody" "Really careful after this." "Um... [sighs]" "Steve was 35." "Two weeks after steve died," "My best friend died." "Peter." "Two days before steve died," "Another good friend died." "I mean, it was just-- It was an avalanche." " Within a mile of epicenter of castro and market," "Large numbers of people died." "And not just your friends who died," "But, you know, the people you didn't know." "The friend of the friend." "You know, you'd go get a coffee," "And the person who used to give you coffee's died." "You would, you know, whatever it was" "Your banker, your mailman, all that." "Mass, mass death." "To the point where you, to some degree," "You would stop asking, if people weren't around," "Where they were, unless you wanted to get into a discussion" "Of them being dead or them being sick." "So, for a number of years," "People are all assuming we've got this disease," "And it's very likely we'll be dead soon." " Everybody was reading the obituaries," "Because they went from like this to like this." "You know, it was just, like, "oh, my god."" "And everybody would get theb.A.R.Every week" "Just to see who's gone." "Being the flower man," "I was thrown into the middle of it," "Because a lot of people would say," ""Guy, my friend died," ""And i don't have enough money to buy flowers, and... i need some help." "Can you help us?"" "They wanted to bury their friends" "With a lot of dignity and beauty, and... and "i came to you to help me out."" "You know, i'm emotional," "Because this is the first time i thought about it." "I--I can't even count the funerals that i did, you know?" "And if it wasn't no more than" "You know, some people would bring me a vase," "And they said, "guy, this is all i can afford." "Can you put some flowers in it, or--?"" "You know, and i did that." "And i, you know, it was never about money." "It was about love, you know." "It was about these people." "Not letting my friends down." "You know, just helping them to the other side." "Mm." " Today i have ordered the closure" "Of 14 commercial establishments" "Which promote and profit from the spread of aids." " There was a broad view" "That there was a sexual transmission component" "Of the disease." "So here we are debating how do we continue to have sex," "How do we continue to love each other," "How do we continue to be" "To pursue the dream of the community that we want to have" "In the midst of this plague," "And so then comes the discussion," "Well, the government" "Would like to shut down some institutions," "And some of these are old, core institutions," "Which is the bath houses." "There's always been bath houses." "They precede the gay community as we know it," "Where gay people would go and meet and have sex," "And some people thought that was a good idea," "The bath houses are run by irresponsible business owners" "Who are--Just don't care about the pandemic" "And are ripping people off," "And other people thought this is a dangerous precedent." "That your friend the government" "Would like to shut down these institutions." "Is that--That okay with you?" "The majority of the community" "Felt that we were in a crisis right now," "And the baths needed to be shut down." "And a lot of people were very afraid of it," "And so the community divided." "And, to some degree," "A split also between the women's community," "The lesbian community, and gay men," "Where gay men kept being controversial to a degree," "By insisting on having as much sex" "In as many places as they were doing," "And the women's community" "Was, you know, to some degree saying," "You know, we don't know" "This is not the commu" "This is not the core definitions of the community" "That we think the community should be fighting over." "We don't think the central battles" "Of glbt liberation should be about, you know," "Public sex, for example." "We think there should be a broader discussion." "So it was a high, high tension debate." " Since i did sit on the corner for 28 years," "I just saw the progression of people, you know," "So scary just to, all of a sudden, you know," "They'd be walking down the street," "And then the next time you see them," "They would be walking with a cane," "Or they'd be in a wheelchair." "And that was devastating to" ""Oh, i remember him."" " Here's the gay community," "Which, for better or for worse," "Is very concerned with appearances," "And here comes this disease that manifests itself" "And destroys your physical appearance." "It's the first thing it does," "Whether it's ks or wasting." "I mean, people were just losing many, many pounds," "And people-- It looked" "People--It looked like, you know," "We were living in a concentration camp." "I mean, people were just losing so much weight" "In their faces and their bodies." "You know, a third of their body weight very, very quickly." "Mysteriously." "They didn't know what was" "You know, what part of the disease was causing it." "Um, so it was these very physical manifestations" "That were horrifying to people," "And were very scary to people," "And if you-- Especially if you had aids," "And then you saw somebody who was much worse off than you," "You almost had to turn away." "It was just-- It was too scary." "I was losing all the fat in my face and my butt," "And everywhere," "And i would walk by a store window" "And see myself in the window, and just jump." "It's like, "who is that?"" "Um, and i remember my mother saying," ""Couldn't you stand on your head," ""And make some of the stuff flow down to your face?" "You got nothing on your--"" "You know, "you're just-- You're skin and bones."" " The aids epidemic allowed me to move into the community" "In a very powerful way." "And, in fact, in many ways," "I began to thrive." "Because it was, like, being in the army." "Like, i was really, for the first time," "Other than being super involved in my family," "I was involved in something else." "Like, i rolled up my sleeves, and... i wanted to be a part of this." "The aids ward was a" "It was a terrible and beautiful place at the same time." "My primary role was to be one of the shanti counselors there," "Which was someone who was trained" "To be able to sit" "And be and witness and have conversations" "And support people through their process there." "I worked with people there" "Who were, like, 18 years old." "We had people there who were in their '60s." "But in general they were sexually active gay men." "People were coming into the hospital" "With diseases like toxoplasmosis," "Which you can get from a potted plant or a canary cage." "I mean, people were extremely susceptible" "To any number of things." "So there had to be, like, a controlled environment." "There was this idea that we were there to cure and heal," "And--And not to minimize any of that," "But--But really, back then," "What were people were doing is," "They were dying of aids," "And we were trying to help them as best we could." "You could go a couple days," "And, um, no one would die." "And then, in one day, like, six people would die." "We saw many lover couples come in." "One would die." "The other, you know, partner would be there," "Go through the whole process," "Some time would pass," "And then the next lover would come in." "There was a mom who came to 5-A," "And one...two...three times," "She lost her boys there." "I would stand in the hallway," "A gay man myself in my mid 30s," "Visiting and talking to a mother and father" "Who had just stepped out of a room," "Who had just found out that their son had pneumocystis" "And had three months to live, or whatever," "And the father would stand there and go," ""You know..." ""it's harder for me to find out that my son is a fag" "Than to find out that he's gonna be dying soon."" "And there i would be, like, trying to comfort him." " When steve died, my friends were there for me." "I felt so supportive." "My family was very-- Very much there for me." "Also, i had other friends who were sick," "And so i-- It pulled me out of myself," "'Cause i could go help take care of them." "I mean, i think i mentioned peter," "Who was one of my dearest friends." "He's one of the first people i met" "When i moved to san francisco." "He was tall and handsome," "And grew up in a trailer park," "And he was--He used to keep these diaries," "And he always wanted them published after he died" "As diaries of an illiterate homosexual." "Peter was such an original." "He was just amazing." "He died two weeks after steve." "He had moved back here to die." "He and his lover." "I had introduced he an his lover," "George, and then they moved to rhode island," "Where george was from," "And then when peter started getting sick," "They moved back to san francisco," "'Cause care was better," "And their core group of friends was here," "And peter was getting sicker and sicker," "And they told him, you know," "You have, like, four or five days to live," "And he was just in so much discomfort" "That he decided to take his own life." "So we, you know, we got together all the drugs," "And the cocktail that was gonna kill him," "And we had a party." "At his house." "He was in bed." "Sort of like a-- Like a queen holding court." "And we each got to go up and say our goodbyes." "And i remember him saying," ""You know, when i was single," ""You were married," ""And when i was married, you were single." ""Did you think if we'd both been single at the same time," "We would have been partners?"" "And i said, "yeah." "I know we would have been."" "And then he gave me one of the most passionate kisses" "I've ever had in my life." "And then we all went away." " I was the charge nurse in the medical clinic," "And we were starting the first a.Z.T. Trials," "And dr." "Jay had come on to help that," "And he looked at me one day," "And he said, "i think we can do this."" "We can do clinical research." "And so we started" "The quest clinical research center together." "You know, both of us had never done research." "We just kind of did it, you know?" "Back then there weren't as many, um, regulations." "The reason that you wanted to do research back then" "Was because there was nothing," "And all you were doing was helping people die," "And you just felt like you had to work on these trials" "And, you know, figure out what was working," "Figure out what the problems were" "And get these drugs approved" "So that everybody could have 'em." "By doing this and working really hard" "And getting these drugs on the market," "You know, maybe we could save lives." "In the early days," "I would go to people's houses." "They were too sick to come in to get their medicine," "I'd go to their house." "I'd draw their blood." "They would come in very educated," "Wanting the newest treatment." "Sometimes they would know more than i did," "'Cause they had, you know, researched so much." "And, um, i would learn from them." "There was really a camaraderie there." "You know, of course, you know, we made mistakes." "When, you know, when we first started the azt trials," "We were giving way too much, you know." "That's why people got so sick on it," "And it got a bad rap." "If you ever come to our office," "We have this picture of this guy" "Who is almost like a skeleton," "And he's holding a sign," ""Man can't live on azt alone,"" "And every time i see that picture," "It brings me back to those days of" "We need more treatments." "We need more than azt." "And--And we need them to happen quickly." " I remember one fellow particularly said to me," ""You know, i'm at the end of my chemical rope,"" "Um, and i thought, "boy, what a phrase from our" "You know, from this time."" " These doctors were coming up" "With every kind of pill that you should take." "It seemed like every day they were coming up with a new cure," "But my friends were guinea pigs," "And those cures didn't work," "And they were still dying, and they were still dying," "And not even just my friends, my relatives." "You know, my--My cousin, he died of aids, you know?" "And it was, like, the whole family kept it, you know," "Zips the lip." "Nobody wanted to say that people were gay, you know," "And we didn't speak about it." "We just said romeo was sick." "And, um," "He just succumbed to... aids," "And he died." "Very quietly." " I think my biggest fears around getting sick" "Was...blindness." "There was a lot, in the early days of aids," "Of c.M.V., cytomegalovirus," "Which attack the eyes," "And people were losing their eyesight" "In a short period of time." "And... you know, i could deal with pain," "Or they could, you know," "They could manage pain and all that," "But the idea of losing my eyesight" "Was really--I think it really, really scared me." " We worked on this trial" "For cmv retinitis." "It affected, infected people's eyes." "We wanted to do research," "So we would ask them if we could take their eyes when they died." "And... you know, that was a hard conversation to have," "But people were into it." "They were going, "this awful thing is happening," ""And, you know, if i can give my eyes to advance this," "I'm willing to do that."" "Any time anybody is ill," "You're meeting them at a very vulnerable place in their life," "And these relationships can grow very intensely very quickly," "So it was my job to go into the autopsy room," "Um, when the pathologist would come and remove the eyes," "And, uh, i would have to put them in this little," "Like, urine container," "And then put them in a paper bag," "And take them to the lab." "And that was really, really hard." "I mean, these were people i really knew," "And, uh, loved, liked, whatever you want to say," "And it was really hard to, um, watch this." "And something that i'll never forget, actually." "But one of my patients' sisters really helped me." "Because she said to me something like," ""It makes me feel better" ""To know that you're gonna be with him" ""When this is happening," ""That i was there to watch over these people," ""And make sure they were treated with respect," "And that their body was handled with love,"" "And i just was so grateful for her to give me that job." " How deeply are americans worried about aids?" "Alos angeles timespoll" "Found that 50% of americans" "Favor quarantine for aids victims." "48% said they should be issued special identification." "15% said aids victims should be tattooed." "We were preoccupied for those first four years" "With extraordinary civil rights attacks." "In 1986 in california," "There was an initiative on the ballot by lyndon larouche," "And it was an initiative to enforce the quarantine laws" "Relative to hiv in california." "And it was--It was written in such a way to sound medical," "But the intent as interpreted by the queer community" "And everyone else was" "This is to stigmatize people with hiv aids," "And could go so far as to have them" "Be quarantined under doctor's orders." "And when that ballot initiative first was put forward," "Um, it was overwhelmingly favored." "It was overwhelmingly favored." "And a statewide campaign formed," "And we organized throughout california" "To defeat the initiative, and defeated it." "And it came again two years later." "It was put forward a second time." "Um, in--In '88." "And simultaneously, there were laws that were" "That was people could be fired for being hiv positive." "People could be mandatory tested." "Other words, you could be tested without your consent," "Um, and then those results made available to people." "Fact is, the reagan administration" "Has been criminal in its response," "And they've done so because they thought" "It was a disease of the gay community." "And what needs to be done is a federal program" "That's equivalent to our effort to get to the moon," "That is equivalent of our effort to develop the atomic bomb." "If we implement that, we can stop aids," "But the way to go is not to start violating civil rights." "I mean, the way to go" "Is not to start turning american against american" "In times of crisis." " And i believe that when you live immorally," "Whether you're a heterosexual or a homosexual," "And you violate the laws of god," "And homosexuality does," "You become wide open to every kind of sin and sickness." " I think the country as a whole understood" "That the queer community was taking care of each other," "That our principal response" "Was food banks and care programs," "And that it was a response that america should be proud of," "And that maybe the pat buchanans" "And the bigots who were attacking us" "And who basically just wanted us to die were wrong." "And at a certain point," "Those--Those attacks just stopped." "They just couldn't get traction" "To continue to stigmatize people with aids." " Aids organizations were just popping up everywhere." "I mean, that was" "It was called the san francisco model." "I think one of the reasons the san francisco model worked" "Was 'cause of the size of san francisco," "And because of castro street itself," "That there was a center." "San francisco people came here not for career." "They came here because they wanted to live here." "And when aids came along," "The community was sort of inherent in that." "It--All it needed was the aids epidemic" "To really make it coalesce." "Whether it was taking care of peoples' pets" "When they were in the hospital," "Or bringing them food, like open hand," "Everybody wanted to do something." "It was a way the community came together" "In an amazing way that... you know, politics had never done that." "And it brought together the women's community" "And the gay women's community and the gay male community" "In ways that had certainly never happened before." " Again and again, in every situation," "Every circumstance, there's lesbians there" "Leading the fight." "All the women had friends who were gay guys" "Who were sick." "I was walking up castro street one day to my apartment," "And in the early days of these horrible tests," "People would become anemic, severely anemic." "There was also a blood shortage," "Because of hiv and blood." "Lesbians weren't at risk for hiv," "And--And could donate blood, and did." "And so i'm walking up castro street," "And i see a poster," "And i believe it was from the lesbian caucus" "Of the harvey milk gay democratic club," "And it said "our boys need blood." ""Lesbian caucus blood drive" "For people with aids, san francisco."" "And i remember thinking," ""This is just a wonderful thing."" " People came to san francisco to go," ""What is happening here that the response is so heartfelt?"" "I think what made 5-A such a spectacular place" "And such a powerful response" "Were the people who worked there." "It's also true of shanti project." "I mean-- I mean, literally," "It was thousands of people" "Who volunteered thousands of hours." "[Big band music, tap shoes clicking]" " Every other sunday, there is a party on ward 5-B." "The hostess is a travel agent named rita berger," "But the nurses and the patients know her as rita rocket." " She came on an easter to offer to do an easter brunch." "It went so well, turned into, like, she would come on sundays." "And she would come with this whole group of men," "Who spent a good part of the week," "Like, baking all the food that was gonna be eaten." "[Cheers and applause]" " I got together with some friends," "And we started an organization called visual aid." "I thought, okay, you know," "Just start in the community that i know," "Which is artists," "And i was seeing artist friends" "Who were having to make the choice between... medical care or art supplies." "When art was" "You know, it was also therapy." "It keeps you going." "So we started this organization called visual aid," "Which would give artists access to art supplies." "We had great t-Shirts," "And we would sell them" "At every street fair gay pride parade," "And we actually made a lot of money," "And i remember in one meeting saying," ""You know, christmastime" ""Is a time when people are buying lots of gifts," ""And there's no street fairs." ""We should do something about that." "We should have a place that we could sell these things."" "And so i had this idea to start a store." "I had pulled together a board of directors," "And they wanted to name it aids mart." "And i said, "no."" "I said, "i'm gonna pull rank here." "I'm the president, and it's not gonna be called aids mart."" "They said, "aids mart." "Aid smart." "See?"" "And i said, "no." "Nobody's gonna shop at a store called aids mart."" "But "under one roof" just sounded right." "I remember working the cash register," "And, you know, when you're working at a store," "You usually say thank you to the customer." "I swear, every customer would just say "thank you." "Thank you for doing this."" "'Cause, you know, people who weren't" "Doing anything in the community felt so powerless," "And here was one even little way, by shopping," "By buying a mug or a t-Shirt for their aunt tillie." "What ended up happening is," "Most of our volunteers were people with aids" "Who were on disability." "People were sick." "But they could get out of bed one day a week" "And work the cash register." "And it became, for a lot of our volunteers," "Their social life," "Their only time out of their houses." " I felt as though we were more compassionate." "We were going through things" "That other people didn't go through," "Other people didn't understand." "It just went over everybody's head." "And i just remember" "How close that brought everybody together." "You know, it was just, like, we didn't care who you were," "But we all had the same burden." "And that was just, like," "It was just, like, the glue." " Gay people were never seen as care givers." "They were seen as, you know, good time people, you know," "Having fun, being wild." "And, all of a sudden, we were the ultimate care givers." "It changed people's view of the gay community" "In a huge way." "I remember my father saying," "'Cause i was spending so much time taking care of my friends." "And he was saying, "these aren't family."" "And i said, "yes, they are." "This is my family."" "And he got it." "He ended up taking care of my friends too." "[Dramatic music]" "♪ ♪" " When i was in the thick of it," "I became, and i suspect many people like me did," "Whether you were infected or uninfected," "It was hard to imagine the future." "I didn't look much further than the next week or two," "Because the whole thing was so... impossible to grasp that all this was really happening." "I went into a long period of being isolated, very sad." "You know, all the years at 5-A," "And all of the death and dying years" "Had really taken its toll on me." "I had been there, you know, for three years," "And it-- And it did cross my mind." "Like, "wow, how do you..." "how do you stop?" "How do you stop working in a place like this?"" "We have a local newspaper here in san francisco" "Called thebay area reporter," "And there was one issue." "They decided to run just all the photos" "Of the people that had died in the last year." "It was just page after page after page" "After page." "Of all of these primarily gay men" "Who had died on the unit." "I just felt something, like, right here." "It was a physical, like, click." "Because i saw all these faces," "And i was stunned." "By how many of them i knew from working on the unit." "And i, you know, i realized" "I couldn't." "I just couldn't-- Couldn't do it anymore." " There's times when you just think," ""I can't take it anymore." ""I don't want to watch this." ""I don't want to see it." ""There's just too many images" "That i don't want in my head."" "And, you know, your feeling of wanting to run away." "It was my generation that was being infected," "And so that, of course, made it even heavier," "Because, you know, we were way too young to die." "And i felt like i was too young to go through all this." "Why--You know, all this loss." "When you're doing this work," "You have to figure out how to take care of yourself" "And not feel it all the time." "But sometimes when somebody would die," "And i'd find myself crying," "I would feel like i was crying for everyone." "It wasn't just that person." "It just felt overwhelming," "And i just" "'Cause sometimes you just really had to cry." "You had to let it out." " I think there were probably some times" "During the epidemic for me" "Where i would hear somebody was sick," "And it was just-- I wouldn't call them," "Or i'd just-- I couldn't see them." "It was just too much." "It was just, like, i... somehow knew my limits," "And i couldn't take one more sick friend... on." "And it felt bad." "But it was--It's so easy" "To just become part of a caregiver's group" "And, you know, that's your life" "For the next many, many months," "And sometimes i just couldn't do it." "Especially during the late '80s and early '90s." "I was sick, and it was just enough" "To get, you know, get me out of bed." "A lot of times, it was the side effects of the drugs." "It wasn't just the disease itself." "You're just so caught up with dealing" "Whether it's nausea or wasting or dizziness or fatigue," "That you don't have time" "To worry about what else could happen." "It's just you're dealing with what is happening." "Tim was my partner during this time," "But he was also hiv positive," "And i just didn't think i could do it again." "I could not lose another partner," "And i told him that." "But we liked each other." "We had really good times together." "And we kept seeing each other," "And after about six months," "He said, you know, "are we together, or aren't we?" "Are you here, or aren't you?"" "And i just, you know, said," ""You know, i really love this person," "And what happens, you know, happens."" "We would sort of take turns being sick." "You know, i would get really sick," "And then he would take care of me," "Then he would get really sick, and i would take care of him," "And thank god we were never both sick at the same time." "He was not feeling well," "And i called the doctor," "And i said, "i'm going to the hospital."" "And i bundled him into the car" "And drive him down dolores street." "He...i guess an aneurysm." "He just--His mouth just locked shut," "And there i am driving, like, 80 miles an hour" "Down dolores street," "And try to pry his mouth open," "Just saying, "breathe, breathe."" "And we were supposed to go to cpmc," "But i knew that was way too far away," "And davies was closer, and i just--I mean," "Thank god i didn't kill anybody on the street." "I was really going down" "Running every light on dolores street," "Just honking my horn, just driving." "And by the time i got to davies, he was dead." "It was so quick." "I was in a total state of shock." "I thought i was gonna lose my mind." "Just felt like it would be real easy" "To just not be here anymore." "Most of my friends were dead." "And there just didn't seem to be any reason to stick around." "But i didn't, and i'm really glad i didn't kill myself." "But it was--It's the only time i've ever been suicidal." "It just--And it was odd." "It wasn't... it wasn't a crazy suicidal." "It just felt very, like," ""I don't--" You know, "i don't need to be here." "There's no reason for me to be here."" "It seemed very logical." "Um, i still could understand it, looking back." " There was some hope on treatment," "Some hope on research." "Some of the money had begun to flow," "And it had paid off with some early drugs." "Experimental drugs were more accessible." "Gay activists were meeting with pharmaceutical companies" "To actually talk about medicines." "So, yeah, there was-- And then act up comes." "It was, like, this wave of sort of brilliant," "Young, artistic new yorkers." "Uh, thing about act up," "Is it's true they were political," "But they were political artists." "From their very opening statement," ""Silence equals death,"" "It's art, it's culture," "And it was, you know, it transformed the dialogue." " 60,000 deaths remain!" "Where was george?" " Fight back!" "Fight aids!" " Healthcare is awry!" "Healthcare is awry!" " That was the first time i crossed a picket line." "I wanted to go in to the aids conference," "Because there was information i wanted to get inside." "And what they were screaming and hollering about," "I agreed with." "So--But then i realized" "That everybody is doing what they need to do." "They need to be out there" "Screaming and hollering and pushing," "Because things don't happen unless you push." "And i needed to go in to get that information" "So i could take care of them." "And--So it made me-- Once i figured that out," "It was a little easier to cross that picket line." " Act up!" "Fight back!" "Fight aids!" " I mean, that was when drugs weren't on the fast track," "Where it took ten years to get a drug approved," "And the activists really worked" "For that to change." " Neil jaeger." "James martin case." " One of the ways i came back into the world" "Was through the names project," "Which is the aids memorial quilt," "Which cleve jones started." " And my friend, marvin feldman." " He came up with the idea that people would make panels," "Memorializing their friends and children and lovers." "It was a creative, positive way to focus their grief," "Then sew it all together," "And make a powerful, political statement." " When they went to washington and unfolded those blankets," "It was like, you know, to me," "Lotus flower after lotus flower after lotus flower," "And each petal was a person, you know?" "And it was so powerful." "It was so powerful." "You didn't even have to say anything." "The tears would just come." " How are you?" " I'm good." "Nervous, but good." " Sure." "Results are negative." " Okay." "Good." " Good." " Good." " I still wanted to be involved." "After my work in the hospital," "It was fairly easy for me to translate," "Take those skills," "And move into working in testing clinics," "And working with people who are at risk for hiv," "As well as occasionally having to tell people" "That they were infected." " When the test occurred," "One of the main things we could do" "Is figure out how we're doing on prevention," "And we were able to turn that around," "So the likelihood that more and more people were being infected" "Had--Had been changed." "So less despair." "Less sense of absolute crisis." "We're now getting into a sense of" "Maybe there's a place to go here." " Some things seemed to be working." "I'm not saying that there was a cure," "But there was a slow down." "You know, people weren't dropping like flies anymore." "Some people were, uh, hanging on." "There was this one guy." "He was in a wheelchair." "He used to come by in a bicycle," "And then he was in a wheelchair," "And then he had a patch over his eye," "And i really hated to look at him," "Because i remember when this guy" "Used to come by on his bicycle" "And buy flowers for his sister," "And we would just laugh and everything," "And i couldn't laugh at him anymore," "Because he was coming by in a wheelchair," "And it was like he was almost on his way out," "And i just thought, "god, where are you?" "Look at what's happening."" "And he was one of the first" "Who the next time i saw him," "He wasn't in a wheelchair." "He was walking." "He had a cane." "And then the next time i saw him," "He didn't have that eye patch on anymore." "And then, hey, i swear to you," "Yesterday, i saw him at my flower stand." "On his bicycle." "And he was back." "He wasn't back like he was in the beginning," "But, you know, i'm not the way i was 20 years ago either," "But he was there, and he had gone through the storm," "And he had weathered the storm," "And his spirit was just as bright and effervescent" "As it was in the beginning." "The washington post came out with a headline," "And it showed death from aids," "And it was a graph going down." "And it basically said "cocktail proves effective" "Against hiv aids."" "This means that aids work as we know it is transformed." " I remember my friend ben saying in the old days" "That he would never go to costco" "And buy one of those big things of toilet paper," "'Cause he didn't think he'd ever use it all up," "And now he can." "That's the difference." "I would never take a commission" "More than five or six months out," "'Cause i didn't think i'd be able to finish it." "Now i'll take a commission that's, you know, a year out." "And now i have a partner to my love," "And whom i hope to be with" "For a very, very long time," "And so i'm imagining a future." "I'm allowing myself to imagine a future." "And that's-- That's scary too." "There's still--I mean, i can feel it right now." "There's, like, butterflies in my stomach," "'Cause, like, i'm hoping." "I'm feeling that hope again." "And i could lose it." "And i have to remember that." "'Cause, you know, you get sick, and bam." "You just sink right down again." " My friend john who has studied buddhism" "Talks about this metaphor of people" "Who have been through some huge experience of loss," "Who cannot find their way back, if you will," "To the land of the living." "But they still walk the earth." "Hungry." "Hungry for connection." "Hungry for some way to regain a sense of life and balance," "And that--I do," "When i walk through the castro sometimes," "I see--I see people who haven't been able to do that," "And that's something that could have easily happened to me," "And that i could have, you know," "Become one of those hungry ghosts," "And, luckily, for me... it changed." "I met someone." "And i encountered life again." "Here was this man walking down the street," "And thank god i got it together, and i said hello." "And he's younger than me." "Like, much younger than me." "And it's been a powerful, powerful experience" "To love and be very close to someone" "Who's younger than me who did not have" "The experience that i had with the aids epidemic" "And all that terrible loss," "And go on with my life having that inside me," "And it not be the all-Consuming... experience that i had had." "And as much as i think about my father" "And what he went through in the war," "I don't want, like, my war to do to me" "What it did to him." " In january of 2007, i became the executive director" "Of the glbt historical society in san francisco." "And, uh, and it surprised me" "That basically the conversation about aids" "That i'd been having for so many years" "Wasn't still going on in that group," "Or in the community--The glbt community of san francisco." "Because, for me, it had continued," "'Cause i was doing international aids work" "And working with aids groups." "So suddenly no one was talking about aids." "There weren't people with aids" "Who everyone was sort of" "If they were around, they were" "Took me a while to figure out who they were," "And, uh, an entire, you know, part of, uh... how i had perceived the community had changed." " I don't have to worry when i'm old," "You know, and looking back at my life" "That i didn't do anything." "And in terms of my politics," "This was the thing that i got to do the most." "Without all these people participating" "In these clinical trials," "We would not be where we are today." "And i really wish" "That some of them were around today." "To see where we are." "Because..." "i don't know." "They just gave a lot." " This tragedy, it taught us how to be humble." "It taught us how to be honest." "It taught us how to-- To love" "In spite of what's at the end of the tunnel." "You know, how to be a little bit more considerate" "Of another person." "It--It showed us how to find spirituality." "It taught me." "I can only speak for myself." "It taught me how to find my spirit," "And how to, you know," "Make my flame brighter." " You know, it's, like, the aids epidemic is not over." "I still have friends who are living with hiv." "Every once in a while, someone i know becomes infected." "I mean, it continues." "What has stopped continuing," "At least in san francisco and in most of the" "Of the developed world," "Is the--The vast amount of sickness and death." "I would really like to be able to live long enough" "To know, like, how does the epidemic" "Actually come to an end?" "Like, will the treatments come" "And--And finally and effectively stop people" "From becoming sicker?" "And will the vaccine come, and" "And stop people from being able to transmit and acquire it," "And--And will it all just finally... finally just stop?" " You know, when people say, "how did you get through it?"" "It's like, "i don't know."" "You know?" "You just do." "And everybody does." "I mean, anybody who's got cancer or aids," "And they're just like, "oh, you're, you know, so amazing" "You--You've gotten through this."" "It's like, "do i have a choice?"" "You know." "I want to stay alive," "And i'm gonna take care of myself the best i can," "And you just do it." "And it's not heroic." "You just do it." "And the same thing with losing a partner." "It's... you know, so many, you know... most people in the world lose partners," "You know, at one time in their lives or another," "And you just-- You live through it," "And it's horrible," "But you do live through it." "I know i have so many friends who died so young." "That's--I mean, that's... that, to me, is the most painful part." "What would the world be like now if they were alive?" "It would be different." "It would be very different." "I mean, so many powerful people," "Talented people." "I miss... i miss a lot of them." "A lot."