"Tonight on BBC 2 sees the start of "Yes, Prime Minister."" "The sequel to Jonathan Lynn's and Antony Jay's" "Classical political sitcom, "Yes, Minister."" "In the new series, the gullible Jim Hacker M.P." "Is being elevated to the pinnacle of political office" "Only to remain hopelessly manipulated" "By his old team from the department of administrative affairs," "Sir Humphrey Appleby and Bernard." "How will Hacker fare in the highest office of state?" "Glyn Worsnip went to canvass the opinions" "Of six true former ministers." "How do you view the prospect of Jim Hacker as prime minister?" "A great improvement on the present occupant." "Where do you place Jim Hacker in the political spectrum?" "( laughing )" "I think everybody would like to pretend" "He was a member of the other party." "I mean, Jim Hacker's problem is he doesn't believe in anything." "It's very difficult to be successful in politics if you don't believe in anything." "Isn't the public view is it's very easy" "To be successful in politics if you don't believe in anything?" "That may be the public view but it's wrong." "And I curse the producers" "If that's the view they're propagating and spreading." "Are you a fan of "Yes, Minister"?" "Yes, I watch every episode I can." "It is extraordinary how often" "The authors have hit on a real problem." "I remember sitting watching when I was health minister," "Watching the episode about the hospital" "That had no patients and no doctors and no nurses." "Then they went through a door and there was administration" "With hundreds of girls typing." "And I sat next to regional administrator the next day" "When there was a big hospital opening where the queen was there." "He leaned across to me and said, "Did you see that last night?"" "And I said yes and he said, "That wasn't fiction, that was a documentary."" "Do civil servants behave in as devious manner" "As the program leads us to believe?" "I don't think so, no," "But I do think they can be devious." "I can recall asking the home secretary" "Whether my phone was bugged." "The home secretary had written back, "Dear mr." "Meacher," "Thank you for your letter asking if your phone is bugged." "I'm afraid I cannot tell you whether your phone is bugged" "But the fact that I cannot tell you whether your phone is bugged" "Should not be taken by you either to mean" "That it is bugged or that it isn't bugged."" "I can also remember" "When I was particularly concerned" "In the department where I was a junior minister," "Being concerned..." "That a report which could cause embarrassment" "Might go the rounds of Whitehall and come back and there would be trouble," "And an official leaning over with a sly look and saying," ""Minister, there isn't anything that we can't lose" "In our committee system if we want to."" "Where do you place Jim Hacker in the political spectrum?" "I've never taken a particularly party or political view about him" "But I should think he's probably a sort of..." "Slightly Wilsonian figure" "I mean, in a Wilsonian government." "Where do you put him in the political spectrum?" "He doesn't believe in anything so he's a social democrat." "He's clearly in the wobbly center." "He's in the blancmange jelly" "School of politics and that puts him right in the center." "He's said to be a labour minister" "Well, then that's even worse caricature." "It's a more disgraceful travesty than I thought in the first place." "He can't be a labour minister." "He wears too good clothes." "I've always regarded the minister himself, Hacker," "As a member of the b-- a member of the S.D.P." "I was going to say the BBC but then actually," "There's not very much difference between the two." "What do you think politicians can learn from the series?" "I think most politicians are well past learning anything." "Would they regard the program as a public service?" "Well, I think it's an amusing program" "Touching on an important question." "And because it keeps us laughing it also keeps us thinking." "And I hope it goes on." "And I think people will continue to watch it" "Because it touches on real matters." "Well, Jonathan Lynn, that's a real build up for you." "Talk about touching matters, you've touched a real chord with all these guys." "Yes, it's remarkable, isn't it?" "What did you think about Roy Hattersley?" "He's backed you before, hasn't he?" "He was actually the first person who gave us a good review." "He was the first person who actually came out and said" "This is what a real cabinet minister's life is like" "And how do they know?" "I was slightly startled by his remark that Hacker doesn't believe in anything." "I think that Hacker is like most of the people that we've just seen" "In that he believes in quite a lot." "But, he's usually unable" "To achieve what he believes in" "And is forced to swallow some compromise or other..." " I see." " In order to survive in the system." "So where does he fit into the system?" "We've heard about him as center" "And slightly left of center and wobbly in the middle." "I mean, where does he fit as far as you're concerned?" "Well, in a sense, what they're saying is correct." "Not that-- a couple of them said he was a member of the S.D.P." "Obviously we're being very careful to fictionalize the party" "And it's never been specified" "And we've never done a program that's about a party political issue." "But obviously, in order to keep that blurred," "He has to inhabit the ground" "That is somewhere on the left of the tory party" "Or the right of the labour party or the alliance" "Because he has to be able to fit into any of those." "All right." "Well, Jonathan, we'll talk a little more" "About Jim Hacker and everyone." "Well tonight, Jim Hacker M.P." "Makes his Downing Street debut on our television screens." "If you've been following the illustrious career of the honorable member" "Since he arrived on our screens in 1980 in the first series of "Yes, Minister"" "Then you, and of course most of the real members of parliament and ministers" "Will be wondering how he'll make out at Number 10." "Well, tonight you can find out in "Yes, Prime Minister."" "The co-creator of Hacker, sir Humphrey and Bernard" "Is Jonathon Lynn and he's our guest this morning." "A very good morning to you." "Has it been difficult elevating him to Number 10?" "It was quite difficult." "It meant the prime minister had to resign." "It meant that whoever were the leading contenders" "Had to be in some way elbowed aside by Jim." "And obviously he needed sir Humphrey's help to get there." "That all happened in the christmas special that was on about a week ago." "There's no trouble taking sir Humphrey and Bernard with him?" "No, it was the other way around." "What happened was that Humphrey became cabinet secretary" "And then realized that he would like" "A fairly malleable minister" "A prime minister who might actually be the sort of chap who would take advice" "And not have too many ideas of his own." "So what new avenues of storyline do you have now that he's prime minister?" "Well, we've got inevitably" "Tonight we begin with" "With Hacker discovering the effects" "Of having his finger on the nuclear trigger." "He starts considering the whole of his" "The whole of Britain's defense policy," "The use of trident and cruise." "And he's also, of course, got to form other policies." "He comes up with what he calls his "grand design,"" "Which is a way of solving our defense and unemployment" "And balance of payment problems simultaneously." "So he's a very decisive prime minister, is he?" "Well, he intends to be a decisive prime minister, shall we say?" "Yes." "But sir Humphrey is still playing the mollifying role." "Sir Humphrey is the cabinet secretary" "And what we discovered-- everyone said it would be more difficult" "When Jim Hacker was prime minister" "Because there wasn't the prime minister in the background," "The shadowy figure who was going to prevent Jim doing what he wanted" "And was going to be a threat." "What we discovered is that prime ministers, when we looked into it," "Don't have that much power either." "And they're prisoners of the system" "The civil service, they've got to get things through parliament." "They've got to carry the cabinet." "You know, we've seen this week that sometimes mrs." "Thatcher" "Is not able to always get the cabinet to behave exactly the way she would like." "The prime minister doesn't have quite as much power as one would imagine." "Thank you very much." "We'll pursue Jim Hacker at Number 10 a little later." "Now to have the prime minister as your greatest fan" "Is a rare accolade for a tv series," "But mrs." "Thatcher and her cabinet are devoted followers" "Of the career of Jim Hacker M.P. in "Yes, Minister."" "But tonight a new series, "Yes, Prime Minister" begins" "And the co-creator of Jim Hacker," "Jonathan Lynn, is our guest today." "Before we talk to Jonathan, here's a glimpse of how Jim" "And his civil service cohorts sir Humphrey and Bernard," "Now at Number 10, conduct the grandest affairs of state." "Was Ron Jones pleased with his peerage?" "Oh yes, prime minister." "He said his members would be delighted." "His members?" "Yes, the members of his union." " The national federation" " I didn't mean him." "I meant our backbencher." "I meant to give a peerage to Ron Jones, not Ron Jones." "Bloody hell!" "If it's any consolation, prime minister, I gather he was awfully pleased." "I'll bet he was." "What are we going to do about Ron Jones' peerage, give him one too?" "With respect, prime minister," "We can't send two lord Ron Jones to the upper house." "It'll look like a job lot." "I've got to give him something." "I promised." "What's he interested in?" "Does he watch television?" "He hasn't even got a set." "Fine, make him a governor of the BBC." "It can't be true." "You're not telling me that happens." "Well..." "We do fictionalize everything." "And unlike journalists," "It's much easier for us to hinder the truth" "Because we don't have to prove the truth of what we say." "Most things in the program are based on truth." "That's because that's what makes it funny, isn't it?" "The truthful things-- that's what makes mrs." "Thatcher such a fan of it," "Because the truthful things are the funniest of all." "Well, we discovered we can make things much funnier" "By going out and discovering how things really happen" "Not how they're really done by sitting at home and imagining the real world" "Especially in politics." "It's much funnier-- and government." "Much funnier than anything you or I could just dream up at home." "So you think that after showing this tonight" "Not only what's on tonight and this particular clip" "But certainly it'll be coming up in the series" "That you'll get a letter from someone saying, that did take place?" "That's the kind of thing that does happen?" "It's usually the other way around." "Usually we've had letters from people saying that something took place" "And that's why we then use it as a basis for an idea for a story" "Or for an incident in the program." "Jonathan Lynn is our guest today." "He's co- written the new "Yes, Prime Minister" series" "Which begins tonight, I think on BBC 2 at 9:00." "What was it like to co-write a series?" "I know you wrote "Yes, Minister" with someone else, too." "Yes, I've often written with other people." "It's much easier than writing by yourself." "It's-- of course it's less lonely." "It's much quicker to discover if something works or doesn't work," "If it's funny or it's not funny." "And there's something that Tony Jay, whom I write with," "Calls "the value of the half-formed idea."" "If you're writing by yourself," "It's no good coming up with half an idea" "For something that's funny or interesting." "You know, you've really got to have thought it through." "But sometimes if there's two of you," "If you think you're onto something and you suggest it," "The other one is quite liable to see how to use it" "Or to think of a good funny line." "It obviously works." "We listened to some politicians earlier" "From Tony Benn, Roy Hattersley and Antony Gilmour." "Yes, Ian Gilmour." "Ian Gilmour, and the rest we were talking to." "And they take it very seriously indeed, don't they?" "They obviously watch it closely and cleverly." "I wonder if they learn from it, though." "I wonder." "It would be nice, wouldn't it?" "I bet they do, you know?" " You learn from them..." " I learn a lot from them." "I think that" " I thought it was interesting that although they were" "Saying, of course, that it was a bit silly in some ways," "Unless they took it genuinely seriously, they wouldn't find the time to watch it" "Because they're very busy people" "With a lot of important things to do." "I think the general impression was that they liked it very much indeed." "Otherwise they wouldn't have bothered to be interviewed." " I think it's a great compliment." " It was a great compliment." "And they admitted it." "You asked them a straight question" "And they admitted it straightaway, yes they watched." "You said earlier it could be a training program almost for cabinet ministers" " How not to do it." " That's right." "Tony Jay and I met when-- he runs a company called Video Arts with John Cleese," "Which makes training films for management." "In a way when we started writing "Yes, Minister"" "We set out to research it the same way." "In a way, "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime Minister"" "Could be a training film for politicians," "You know, how not to do it." "We'll see you tonight." "How not to do it starts at 9:00 on BBC 2."