"Name one Cornish newsreader or presenter..." "More on those badgers." "Is there something we might find for Sally Wingate?" "No." "Is it worth thinking about Britain's Tastiest Village?" "Village is appointment-to-view television." "You're telling me we've lost Clare Balding?" "I know it's not words you want to hear." "We'd love you to do the show, Carol." "It's like me in a restaurant with Carol Vorderman." "I'm like "Guys, whatever happens, it's enough."" "'Now she says she believes that could be down to the Corporation's 'institutional anti-West Country bias.'" "What?" "Bollocks." "So that's happened." "Woman's Hour." "I've got you on tomorrow with Jenni Murray." "Got ME on?" "All you need to do is decide whether you want to go up tonight or catch the early train in the morning." "Manchester?" "Gah, no, bad luck." "Stand by, Two." "Mix through." "Cue on two." "The BBC's announced the appointment of ex-Head of Olympic Deliveries, Ian Fletcher, as its new Head of Values." "'Time now for the shipping forecast.'" "Superimpose." "There you go." "Oh, right, Tracey, thanks, that's great." "Don't think I normally do this, Ian." "No, I won't." "I'm not the sort of person that gets the coffee in life." "No." "It's Friday morning and BBC Head of Values, Ian Fletcher, is at Euston Station with BBC Communications Officer Tracey Pritchard." "Is there chocolate on that?" "No, there is not." "No, OK, right." "They're on their way up to Manchester so that Ian can take part in a live interview on Woman's Hour on Radio 4." "I have to say, having slept on it," "I still don't know why we're doing this." "It's Friday." "I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is." "Why is Woman's Hour from Manchester on Fridays?" "OK." "That's a good question, Ian." "I'm not being funny or anything but I'm not sure anyone knows that." "That's great, but why I couldn't just do it down the line from here..." "Ah, no." "I mean, I have to say, it's beyond me." "What it is is, because of the interest there is in this, Ian, because of the whole thing, it's crucial you're seen to be in the studio with Jenni." "It's radio!" "With the BBC now accused of ageism, sexism, and institutional anti-West Country bias in its treatment of Spotlight South West presenter Sally Wingate, the Woman's Hour interview is an important test of Ian's purpose as the Corporation's new Head of Values and as a man." "Oh, right, here we go." "Hi, Siobhan..." "Oh, right." "Best of luck with that." "Yes, I'm at Euston, actually." "I've just got on the train..." "What do you mean, where?" "I'm..." "No, wait, hang on a minute." "Where are you?" "Oh, bloody great!" "Yeah, OK, OK, I can see you now." "Yes, I know you can." "Comin' at ya." "Yes, I can see that too." "But with the PR issues involved in something as highly visible as this, newly appointed Brand BBC Consultant Siobhan Sharpe from PR Company Perfect Curve knows how vital it is to make herself visible, too." "OK, so let's do this." "Let's ride this train!" "Yes." "Great." "Let's nail this puppy to the floor." "Oh, right." "OK." "Here we go." "What?" "The Culture Secretary has been on the Today Programme." "It's not a good start to the journey." "In an interview on today's Today Programme on Radio 4, the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport has expressed his or her "disappointment"" "about the way the BBC has treated Sally Wingate." "What I'm going to do is, if it's all right with you," "I want to use this time to go through a few scenarios with you, Ian." "Sure." "I've been thinking about this, obviously." "I'm sure you have, Ian, but I'm not being funny or anything but you're a man." "Well, yes." "Being a woman, I can say this." "You're in very tricky territory with this issue, and it's live." "Yes." "What I'm thinking..." "Jenni's going to want to talk about Sally Wingate, obviously." "Obviously." "Whereas I would say you don't want to do that." "No, the sooner..." "What you want to be talking about is Carol Vorderman." "Right." "She's our trump card here, and we're bringing her back to the BBC in a new show." "Well, yes." "She's in her fifties, she's good with numbers, and my husband always said if he left me for anybody, it would be for her." "Did he?" "He did, yes." "As it turned out, he left me for a receptionist in a BMW showroom." "Really?" "But that's a different story that doesn't alter what I'm saying here." "Carol ticks all the boxes for us." "We love Carol." "David, I don't understand what you're saying to me." "I know, I just got this text out of nowhere." "Yeah, but you're not making sense." "I know." "It's a nightmare." "Meanwhile, back in London, experienced producer Lucy Freeman and entertainment format producer David Wilkes are in early." "I'm in the coffee queue as usual, and I'm decaf first up cos I'm in early, it's a big day, and I'm not going to max out my caffeine levels because..." "Yes, whatever." "I'm standing there and get, like, a text, and look down and it's, like, Clare Balding." "Yes." "And I'm like, "What the fuck?"" "With Carol Vorderman coming in this morning to discuss her presenting role on Britain's Tastiest Village, a major new flagship BBC One show which she's eventually agreed to co-host with Alan Titchmarsh, and with Head of Output, Anna Rampton, due to announce it" "at a BAFTA Spirit of Excellence Forum at lunchtime, there's been some inexplicably unforeseen news." "But even then, why would she want to see us?" "Why is she in the building?" "She's coming in later for like, I don't know." "A horse thing, whatever." "Wanted to pop in and say hi first." "But Carol's in this morning." "I know." "How has this even happened?" "I know, tell me about it." "No, I'm asking you, how has this happened?" "I just, like, got a text out of nowhere." "It's gradually emerging that Clare Balding, the original choice to present Britain's Tastiest Village, is available after all and apparently still committed to the show." "I phoned Simon at ITV, and apparently Clare is so committed to Village that she's like," ""I'm not going to do How Big Is Your Dog?" "at all unless they change dates."" "No." "In the end, they were like, "Yeah, OK, then, whatever."" "Oh, you're joking." "Simon's practically suicidal." "Does Anna know?" "Anna?" "Have you told Anna?" "Oh, yeah, right." "Well, no." "I mean, not really." "I mean, this is your show, David." "I'm happy to help, but for God's sake..." "I know." "It's a nightmare." "So when you last spoke to Clare, cos you spoke to her, didn't you?" "Yeah." "How did you leave it with her when the dates all went wrong?" "Clare was really brilliant about everything." "You told her we were going to have to move on and everything, you made that clear?" "Yeah." "Uhhh..." "We just had a lovely chat." "Oh, you're kidding me." "You know what Clare's like, lovely Clare." "Nobody wrote the letter?" "Right." "Or the e-mail saying how sad we were to lose her?" "How we completely understood her situation, how reluctantly we had to move on without her?" "Yes, right, good." "No." "Nobody did that?" "I know." "I just, like, got this text out of nowhere." "OK, so here's the thing with this, guys, here's what it is." "Forget radio, forget Jenni Murphy, forget all that." "Murray." "Excuse me?" "Jenni Murray." "Sure, forget her." "How many people listen to Women's Hour?" "Uh, well..." "Woman's Hour." "Sure." "How many people listen to it?" "I'm not sure of the figures, but..." "OK, so how many people?" "How many?" "I don't know, just to save time, I give up." "Exactly." "Go figure." "Whereas..." "No, no, hang on." "What is it?" "What's the answer?" "Exactly, that's my point, Ian." "No-one even knows that shit." "3,470,000." "Excuse me?" "The average weekly audience of Woman's Hour is 3,470,000." "OK, so that's like a number, right?" "Well, yes." "Plus they're going to be, like old people, right?" "They're going to be sitting there anyway." "How many people follow Justin Bieber on Twitter?" "45,000,000." "OK, fine, that's..." "45,000,000?" "Sure." "God, that's depressing." "What's happening today is Brand Fletcher, Head of, um, like, Head of..." "Head of Values." "Head of Values, yeah, cool." "Siobhan, for a start, I don't actually tweet, OK?" "So, I mean, I'm not even on Twitter, so..." "Na-ah." "I'm sorry, Siobhan, I don't want to be rude or anything but Ian is not Justin Bieber." "Well, no, exactly." "And to be honest, as far as I can see, he's never going to be either." "I'm sorry, Ian." "No, that's fine." "I have to tell things as they are." "Yes, of course." "OK, so you totally are on Twitter." "Yeah, what?" "As of now, you have 14,000 followers." "What?" "!" "Meanwhile, somewhere between London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly, it's becoming clear that Siobhan has had her office at Perfect Curve set up a Twitter account for Ian in order to establish his cultural capital." "So what happens is..." "Guys, we are now approaching Macclesfield." "OK, so what happens is, like, you tweet:" ""Yay, on the train to Manchester for Women's Hour." ""Soooo excited, can't wait." "Catch me on Radio 2 at ten."" "It's Woman's Hour." "Also, it's Radio 4, just as a detail." "And then we tweet it to Jamie Oliver." "Jamie Oliver?" "Yeah, we love Jamie, he owes us big." "But, Siobhan..." "When he first came to us, he didn't even have the lisp." "So then Jamie re-tweets it, and suddenly it's hashtag mashup city." "One of the design flaws with your strategy, Siobhan, is," "I haven't tweeted that and I'm afraid I won't tweet that or anything remotely like that in the foreseeable future." "No, that's cool." "I'm sorry." "No, I'm good with that." "No, I tweeted it for you." "What?" "Congratulations, Ian." "You've changed the game here." "Suddenly, Jenni Murphy's nowhere." "It's Murray, OK?" "It's Woman's Hour with Jenni Murray on Radio bloody 4." "I'm sorry, this is wrong." "We need to talk about this." "Got a paradigm, got to shift it, Ian." "No, you're not actually listening." "OK, I totally am listening." "What it is is, you guys are not saying the right stuff." "So you're collecting Carol?" "You're picking up Carol from Reception?" "Yes, hi." "I was just..." "Yes, no, that's fine." "And we're meeting her where?" "Yes, I'll book somewhere and I'll try, and I'll find somewhere that's free." "Good, because I've got to be away by 10.45." "Right." "OK." "I'm getting a lift with Patten to this BAFTA thing and he likes to be bloody early." "Yes, no, that should be fine." "And we're confident Carol's on board?" "Yes, I mean yes, I mean yes." "What?" "No, I mean, I'm sure she's already decided, basically, you know." "She's just coming in this morning to give us an opportunity to tell her how fabulous she is." "Right." "Yes, you know how it is." "Good." "Well, I hope you're right, because this has been tight, and I have to say I'm not enjoying it at all." "Yes." "Oh, yes, cos, uh..." "Yeah?" "No, the other thing that's happened... what's also happened, Clare..." "I mean, as it turns out, can actually, and I think I'm right in saying she is actually coming in this morning, yes, she is in fact, is actually available after all." "Clare?" "Clare Balding." "Yes." "Yes, so that's a bit of a surprise." "It's perhaps worth reminding ourselves, Sarah, that 24 hours ago, this was a story about so-called institutional anti-West Country bias within the corporation." "@KirstieAllsopp, "Give Jenni a big slobbery kiss from me"." "She truly is the mother of all presenters." "Right." "@GeriHalliwell." ""Love, love, love Radio 4"." "Brainy people talking." "Right, yes, thank you." "I love this, I so love it." "Meanwhile, Ian has already arrived at the Woman's Hour studio at the BBC's iconic Media City building in Salford, and is waiting for his turn with Jenni Murray." "'The BBC has been through ups and downs, particularly in the last few years...'" "@rioferdy5, "England shit ever since Glenn Hoddle was manager." ""Too much poverty in the world"." "Yes, I'm just watching this if that's OK." "Sure." "Thanks." "No, sure, that's a good idea." "'Disappointment in relation to the BBC, that's not good...'" "We're all set up." "Right." "OK." "Cool." "Just so you know, I've had a word with Helen, the..." "OK." "..A word with Helen, the producer, and what I've done is..." "Sure..." "I've basically..." "Yep." "I'm talking to Ian, actually." "Cool." "This is important." "No, sure, I'm good with that." "I prepped her on Britain's Tastiest Village." "Right." "But I didn't mention Carol Vorderman." "OK." "I left that for you." "So hopefully, that's going to help you move the conversation away from Sally Wingate..." "And towards the principle of a more diverse..." "Towards Carol Vorderman." "Yes, exactly, towards Carol Vorderman." "Which will be a surprise for Jenni, because she won't see that coming." "At which point you're pretty much home and dry, in my opinion." "Yes, good." "OK. "OMG, Vorderman and Titchmarsh together at last, Sunday nights BBC One?" "No WAY." ""Just gone seriously weird at the knees"." "I'm sorry?" "I love Twitter." "I so love it." "Who the hell's that from, for God's sake?" "That's from you." "From me?" "Sure." "Right." "No, no, no." "No, I'm sorry, Siobhan, you can't do this." "No, I can." "It's not an issue." "No, you can't just do stuff like this on your own." "De nada." "Don't get me wrong, Siobhan." "I'm grateful for your input." "Sure." "But I've set this thing up as an exclusive for Woman's Hour." "I'm about to announce something live on radio, but apparently I've already tweeted it." "You so have." "You just totally bucket-sized the whole audience for everyone involved." "What?" "You pre-tweeted this thing, Ian, you're totally ahead of trend." "And here's the thing with this, you'd better get used to it, OK?" "This is a fiddly one, isn't it?" "Fiddly?" "It's really bad luck." "Meanwhile, 180 miles south at New Broadcasting House in London, other events are happening, but at exactly the same time." "And I'm looking down at my phone." "I'm like, no way." "Yep." "It is genuinely hard to believe." "I know, it's like, how has this even happened, guys, you know?" "OK, but it has, it's happened." "I know." "You guys will know what you want to do about it, but I'm happy to help you guys in any way I can." "Yes." "With Carol Vorderman due to arrive at any minute, so is Clare Balding, and an extraordinary meeting of the Damage Limitation Group chaired by Director of Strategic Governance Simon Harwood is already under way." "Ah, yes, oh, thank you, Izzy." "Brilliant." "I haven't been involved in the detail of this and how you want to do this is very much up to you, and of course, Anna, I know you're going to have ideas." "Well, I've said to Lucy..." "No, I don't want that." "I said to Lucy, this needs to be sorted, and needs to be sorted now." "Oh, no, brilliant." "The fact is, I've said that all along." "No, brilliant, Anna." "To be clear about where we are now - is Carol actually contracted?" "Well, exactly, yes." "Is Carol actually contracted?" "I mean, I've spent the last two days on the phone to her agents trying to sell them the idea of Alan Titchmarsh as an A-lister, and to Alan's agents trying to sell them the idea of Carol as a, you know - trying to sell them the idea of Carol." "Oh, no, no, brilliant Lucy, well done, you." "Yeah, lovely Lucy." "So is Carol actually contracted?" "Well, I mean, not legally, no." "OK, well, that's something." "No, but morally..." "Brilliant." "She's coming in this morning, and after everything we've said to her..." "Oh, yes, no, no, brilliant." "No, no, absolutely." "Very strong." "So listen, from the outside, as someone who hasn't been involved in this at all, I, look," "I'll back you guys whatever you decide to do, OK, so just take that as read." "I'm not sure quite how thrilled Tony will be with the idea that we've got Clare Balding... so that's Dame Clare Balding, OK?" "So keen to do a BBC show that she's had the, the ITV schedule bent out of shape in order to do it, and we're saying to her," ""You know what, Clare?" "Thanks, but we're going to go with someone else."" "I don't think she's actually, like, a Dame?" "Yes, well..." "She's like some other..." "Yeah, yeah." "What the hell do I know, but I guess all I'm saying is that if you do have to make a choice between one or the other, then it probably has to be Clare." "Yes." "Right, fine." "I mean, doesn't it?" "Uh-uh." "The fact is, it's appointment-to-view television." "I've said that all along." "OK, can I say right now, I'm not telling Carol?" "Yeah, lovely Carol." "There's absolutely no way I'm going to do that." "No, sure." "It's not fair to her and given what's happened, I really think this should come from someone at a senior level." "Oh, no, absolutely, Lucy." "That is absolutely up to you guys." "I've already said what I think." "Yeah, lovely Clare." "Brilliant." "So iamfletcherbbc just got re-tweeted by Danni Minogue." "Right." "Thank you." "I thought you might want to know." "Is that good?" "Good?" "It's like instant penetration in the gay community." "It's huge." "I suppose that's something of a first for Radio 4." "You mention Carol Vorderman as well, you practically hit gay oil here." "Back up in Salford, it's now nearly time for Ian's unavoidable interview on Woman's Hour with Jenni Murray." "I don't want to worry you, but I just picked up an e-mail from mission control." "Right." "I'm not being funny or anything, but I think we might have a bit of a situation on our hands here." "What, a situation?" "Yes, exactly, Ian." "What sort of a situation?" "Like I say, I don't want to be negative but this feels to me like it has the makings of a major fuck-up." "Right." "OK." "So..." "Hi." "Hi, yes." "Still a few more minutes to go, but now might be a good time to walk you into the studio, Ian, if that's good for you?" "Right." "Yes, of course that's..." "Great." "Right, no, yes, yes, great." "Cool." "Stop all the clocks." "It's TV's Carol Vorderman." "Yes, this is Simon Harwood." "Oh, no, really, Izzy." "Carol doesn't care who I am." "She's Carol Vorderman, for God's sake." "Simon Harwood." "Hello, Simon." "So is Izzy looking after you OK?" "Oh, yes." "Yes, she's good, isn't she?" "She certainly is." "Tragically, I'm just on my way to a bloody meeting with His Tonyship, the Lord Director General, otherwise I'd find some excuse to stay." "But I couldn't go without saying hi." "I'd never forgive myself." "Well, it's nice to meet you." "Fabulous to have you in the building, finally." "So good luck in there." "Thank you." "Don't take any nonsense from anyone." "Don't worry, I won't." "Excellent work." "Carry on, everyone, brilliant." "Carol, hi." "Hi." "Lucy." "Yes, of course." "Hi, Lucy." "And Anna, of course." "Hi, Anna." "Carol, hi." "Really nice to see you again." "You too, for sure." "And David, of course." "For various reasons, whether they know it yet or not, this is going to be a decisive meeting for all those involved, especially for those who don't know it yet." "Have to say, it's very funky in here, isn't it?" "Well, it is, really, yes." "It's not how I remember it - all the crumbling corridors that led nowhere." "I'm not sure I'm going to be able to get used to this." "No." "For Lucy, Anna and David, their task is to find a way of breaking the bad news to Carol in such a way that it doesn't sound like a giant and protracted cock-up." "Plus, I suppose this is exactly the kind of series that the BBC should be making." "Exactly." "Yes, good." "It so is." "So, I mean, Anna, maybe we should..." "Maybe you can bring Carol up to speed with exactly where we're up to with things?" "No, sure." "Because there have been one or two, erm..." "KNOCK AT DOOR" "Sorry, everyone, excuse me." "No, that's OK, Jack." "You know, your car's here." "OK, thanks." "And a message from Lord Patten's office - he's ready when you are." "OK, thanks." "Wow." "Ah, yes." "Get you." "I am so sorry," "I'm going to have to go, I'm afraid." "Sounds like you are." "The fact is, I'm supposed to be at this BAFTA thing." "Lucky you." "Horrible timing." "Yes." "But I wanted to be here to at least say hi to you, so I guess that's something." "Now, enjoy the..." "You know, enjoy your water and let's talk soon, OK?" "Fantastic." "I'll see you soon." "Bye now." "Bye." "Bye, Anna." "Right, then." "Yes." "And with me now is the BBC's new head of values, Ian Fletcher." "Ian, welcome to Woman's Hour." "It's very good to be here, Jenni, thank you." "We haven't got time for this." "I need to know from you now what Ian Fletcher can and cannot say to Jenni Murray live on air now, because that is what has happened here." "Like, three million re-tweets." "Like major, major crapfest." "Meanwhile, back in London, with all hands on deck, another thing is about to happen." "Will..." "Yeah, hi..." "Oh, hi." "You busy?" "What, now?" "Yes." "No." "Could you do something for me?" "Yeah, OK." "It's important." "That's OK." "I'd do it myself but I can't be too far away from..." "Erm..." "Doesn't matter, it's complicated." "OK, cool." "Basically, could you go down to reception and meet Clare Balding?" "Yeah." "You know who she is?" "Yeah, I know her, yeah." "Horses." "Right." "She's down there now, so could you bring her up here?" "OK." "But I don't really have time to explain it, we're in a bit of a..." "Basically, could you - without making it obvious - could you delay her getting up here for as long as you possibly can?" "OK, no worries." "Basically, we have to get Carol Vorderman out of the building before she gets up here." "OK, good." "Are you sure you're OK with that?" "Yeah." "With what?" "With everything I just said to you." "Oh, yeah, yeah." "No, that's cool, yeah." "Really, I will love you for the rest of my life." "OK, cool." "As we've been hearing, there's been a great deal in the media about the Sally Wingate case." "Of, course, yes." "A lot of it, I have to say, not very complimentary about the role the BBC has played in this." "Oh, no, look." "Of course, I'm aware of that, Jenni, it's very much part of my job to be aware of it." "Because there are those who say this case is far from an isolated one and that it's part of a worrying trend." "Well..." "You're Head Of Values." "Absolutely, yes." "Well, is the BBC sexist or ageist in the way it treats its female presenters?" "Right..." "Perhaps even both?" "Right, yes." "I mean, obviously I'll talk to your agent and we can sort out some kind of..." "Oh, definitely." "Apparently, the most common last word the pilots say before they crash..." "No, please just shut up." "Yeah, OK." "Yes, please shut up, David." "Yeah." "No, get off, I am going to, this has got to..." "We've just been retweeted by Enrique Iglesias." "He absolutely cannot mention Carol Vord... ..Younger women just there to look good but it's the men, and let's face it, often older men, who are taken seriously." "Well, here again, I have to say..." "That's seven million people all over the world expecting this to..." "I'm sorry, I'm not going to let you, I'm sorry, get off." "..any opportunity we can behind the scenes, and indeed in front of the scenes where it's perhaps more visible, to move beyond the old stereotypes." "But specifically..." "Yes." "Because generalisations are all very well..." "Absolutely, yes." "I know, I know." "I don't know, absolutely no idea." "No, just arrived." "Still in reception." "I just got a tweet off Gabby about five minutes ago." "Something about Carol Vorderman." "And since then, it's just gone absolutely crazy." "Back in Reception at New Broadcasting House, Clare Balding, who as an OBE, has half a million Twitter followers herself, has arrived, on the phone to her agent." "Fi, I've got to go." "I'll call you when I know stuff." "OK?" "Yep, all right, bye." "Bye-bye." "Hi, Clare?" "Yes." "Hi." "Yeah, hi, yeah, cool." "I'm Will, so I'm kind of like an intern?" "Great, shall we go in?" "Cool, yeah, so - can I get you a coffee or something?" "No, no, no, I'm fine, thanks." "Cool, or, like, a slice of apple tart?" "Apple tart?" "Yeah, I don't know, it could be anything." "No, really, I'm fine." "Shall we..." "Yeah, cool, yeah, no, cool, yeah, no worries." "How are you?" "How am I?" "Yeah, I just mean - yeah." "I'm... fine, thanks." "Cool." "You know, I've got a pass and everything..." "Cool, yeah, that's cool, yeah, no..." "Cool." "Just..." "I love horses." "My sister had one." "Great." "Yeah, a really big one." "Lovely." "I used to have to feed it some mornings but then it, like, got out?" "'No, what I would say is we're always striving to be better 'and to learn from our..." "from experience, and if there is a general lesson to be learned here, 'we're absolutely committed to finding out what that lesson is 'and learning it going forward.'" "Who is this idiot?" "Yeah, I don't know him." "Are we moving?" "Yeah, say again?" "Are we actually going anywhere?" "Yeah, OK." "Cool." "'..very interesting question, Jenni, 'and we're hoping that rationality, not downsizing in that sense, 'but I think in the sense of what is the rationale?" "What is the BBC about?" "Where are we going?" "'Where have we been, and how do we get there?" "'" "'Doors opening.'" "Hey, Clare." "Right." "Fine." "OK." "Clare, hi, can I get you a coffee or something?" "No, you know what?" "I don't want a bloody coffee." "Thanks." "No, she doesn't want that." "Right." "OK." "OK, cool, yeah, no worries." "'Lift going down.'" "Tracey, hi." "Not great." "No, no." "Really not great." "I'd like to talk about the practicalities of this on the ground, if I may?" "Yes, of course." "Yes." "Vor-der-man." "Is that confirmed?" "Yes." "Vor-der-man." "Right, yes." "What exactly will that mean in practical terms?" "Right." "I suppose what I'm asking is, how will we know when you've learned that lesson?" "No, of course, that's a very good question and you're right to ask it, Jenni." "For instance" " I've got to be a bit careful about what I say here because I think we are actually announcing this later today, but... ..derman." "Clare Balding either!" "For those who don't know, that's a show with Alan Titchmarsh." "Exactly, yes, and without giving too much away..." "Don't mention it!" "Yes." "Talk about anything!" "One example that's in my mind at the moment because, as I say, we are announcing it later today..." "I am actually quite strong." "..I am allowed to say at this stage, in fact, I'm going to say it anyway, we've been talking to Sally Wingate, who, by the way, is one of our most experienced regional women " "women presenters, I mean, obviously." "We've been talking to her about the possibility of her working on that show, presenting alongside, as you say, with the great Alan Titchmarsh, and I have to say, without giving too much away, that we're very much hoping that will happen." "Well, if..." "And of course in terms of the age issue, if we could pull that off, that would give them a combined on-screen presenting age of something north of 120 years old, which is a very exciting thought." "So no, yes, we're particularly pleased about that, and so no, yes, that's all good." "Brilliant." "I just felt somebody had to take a decision." "No, brilliant, brilliant." "It's been a long day." "But by the end of it," "Ian has made the necessary journey from Salford to London in order to get back to New Broadcasting House." "Between you and me, this is how this should have turned out from the beginning." "Well, the..." "Honestly, I've just left Alan and Tony, literally skipping around the office together." "Right, good." "I mean, I haven't spoken to Anna yet." "Oh, Anna." "I hope she's OK about the way things..." "Well, what do you think?" "I mean..." "I'd say that Anna's come out of this really rather gorgeously." "Right." "Which you have to say is one of Anna's great strengths." "Right, yes." "I can't tell you, all this stuff about why the hell do we need a Head of Values?" "Yes, w... what?" "Like Tony was saying, you know, now finally, we know." "Right." "Just brilliant, brilliant." "Brilliant." "For Ian, it's Friday evening and at the end of another week as the BBC's new Head of Values, all that's left now is to finally get back to his flat." "But on the other hand, Sally Wingate is a fresh, new face and... well," "OK, she's new anyway, and we just thought the idea of Alan on BBC One with someone who wasn't either Clare Balding, or in fact, Carol Vorderman was just a really exciting way to go with the whole..." "No, right." "I mean, so maybe the thing to do, then, is for Alan to have a think about it and then, you know..." "No, OK." "Well, obviously that's a different way of looking at it," "I mean, I wouldn't use either of those words, but..." "Right, OK, no, yes, well, thank you for phoning, Donna, and thanks for putting us in the picture, so..." "Yes, and as I say, we're still absolutely..." "Yes, OK, bye, then, Donna, thank you, you too, OK, bye." "Bye." "Right." "Hi." "Hi." "How's it going?" "Fine, yes." "Fine." "Right." "'Lift going down.'" "Sorry, I really wasn't listening." "No." "But was that..." "Yes, that was Donna, yes, Alan Titchmarsh's agent." "Right." "So..." "Yes, he's pulled out too now, yes." "Right." "So yes, pretty much a clean sweep." "I'm sorry if..." "No, that's OK." "I hope I haven't..." "No, no." "I was in a bit of a tight spot." "Yes." "I'm afraid it all got a bit..." "No, really, don't worry, this is quite normal." "Really?" "Is it?" "Yes, this is a pretty ordinary day." "Right." "I have to say, it didn't feel very ordinary to me." "No, but it will do soon." "Don't worry, really." "Right, well." "Yes." "'Doors opening.'" "Right, well, another week." "Yes." "Which way do you..." "I'm Camden, yes." "Right." "Or Kentish Town, really, depends who I'm talking to." "Right." "What about you?" "Err, Maida Vale, yes." "Right." "No other way of really saying that." "No." "Well, see you on Monday for more, I suppose." "Yes." "More of what?" "I don't know, more of this, I suppose." "Yes." "See you Monday, then, yes." "Right, bye." "Bye."