"Nothing's original under the sun, you know?" "Everything goes back to something." "Yes, my name's Mark Lanois." "My recently deceased sister left your archives a page from the book of hours... that they purchased from Christie's back in 1982." "I wanted to know if I could, uh, uh, bring it by to you this afternoon." "Okay." "It depicts the crucifixion." "It's circa 1540, and I'd like to tell you a little bit about Emily and her husband." "And, uh, you know, they worked for World Bank in Europe and everything." "Well, good." "Then we'll look forward to seeing you, uh..." "When?" "When might you like to come by?" "Uh, I th..." "Uh, let me see." "I-I-I guess we could probably get there a little..." "Probably-Probably early this afternoon." "I think I have everything." "I'll only..." "I'll only hit the stuff just before I face... whatever it is at the place, okay?" "Not when I'm driving." "Connecting to OnStar." "Your approximate travel time is two hours, seven minutes." "Start out going south..." "Oh, yeah, here..." "Lester Sullivan." "Uh..." "Yes, sir." "I'm Lester Sullivan." "This is Irwin Lakov." "How you doing?" "All right." "Look, I'm writing..." "Excuse me." "A little biography of..." "Oh, thank you." "Of Mother." "Excuse me." "I mean, of my sister." "Oh, this was your sister?" "Yes." "Oh, my." "Well." "Oh, and now look." "I'm going to bring the, uh... the catalog to you." "That's the auction and everything, all right?" "Oh, isn't that nice?" "I-I believe it'll-it'll-it'll look well and..." "Oh, you know it." "Is that a form... an early form of color printing of some sort?" "Well, it's all hand done and colored." "No." "It's hand done, but it's not as good as the earlier ones." "It's still insured with Huntington Block." "Now I'm writing a little biography of Emily." "Of the lady who left this to us?" "Yes." "My sister, Emily." "That would be the sister." "I made her up." "But I-I said that was my sister." "And I actually did that." "And why'd you make her up?" "Oh, well, I was in the habit of... of saying I had a sister... so that I could... throw awkward questions and problems in their lap." "You've got my phone number and everything." "No, sir." "You gave me no data." "Oh." "I thought it might have shown up." "Oh, well." "Do you have a card or..." "Uh, I'm pretty much out of them." "And I'd like you to show me about where would it be... where you would think of putting it." "Well, there would not be a permanent display." "I've got others." "No, not permanent, but whenever you..." "You see these cases we've just vacated here?" "We have an exhibit very much relating to our religious history here." "She certainly knew what she was doing." "Hmm." "Well, I'm glad you're helping to realize her wish." "I've been following Landis for going on four years now." "I've got old... older copies of my dossier in here." "What's so strange about Landis is that he's not in it for the money." "He likes to dupe museum professionals." "He likes to see the stuff on display." "I met him in 2008." "I was registrar at the Oklahoma City Museum of Art." "He showed up as Mark Landis, and he started pulling all these works out." "This was the first piece that I looked up online... 'cause we were getting ready to take this watercolor by Signac... and make it part of the collection." "Well, as anybody should, I did my due diligence, looked this up online, and it showed up in a press release... at the Savannah College of Art and Design." "Artists, they'll do the same subject matter over and over again, like Monet." "Or he'll do..." "You know, he would do these buildings, but he'd do it at different times of day so you'd see the subtle differences." "But it wasn't until that I went on to this oil-on-panel by Stanislas Lépine..." "I looked this one up, and it showed up in a press release... at the St. Louis University Museum of Art." "And then I found the same one at three more museums." "I mean, these are no small potatoes." "This Alfred Jacob Miller piece..." "this is in six or seven museums." "But they look..." "They just look so good and so real." "You know, the guy is a skilled artist." "I just became obsessed with it, just like he is obsessed with making these paintings." "And, um, I was just out to..." "He messed with the wrong registrar is what he did." "Hi, Mr. Mark." "Hi, hi." "How are you doing?" "You'll sign here for me?" "Yes, yes, yes." "Mark?" "Hi." "Nice to see you again." "Nice to see you too." "Tell me about your mood?" "What's it like?" "Been all right." " Any suicidal thoughts?" " No." "What about wanting to hurt anyone else?" "No." "Okay." "Are you hearing any voices or seeing things?" "No." "Okay." "What do you do for fun every day?" "Well, I've done an awful lot of three girls having a..." "Three..." "Of the three girls... sitting on the grass reading." "I've done a lot of those." "This one's really tedious." "You get better with practice." "But that's how the..." "The back's easy if you just pour coffee on it." "Oh." "Here's another one." "Put it in one of those Walmart frames, looks like a million doll..." "It does look like a million dollars, 'cause actually that's worth about a million..." "Well, maybe not quite that much, but close." "And these frames are so cheap, and all you have to do... is just go over 'em some with arts and crafts stuff and they look really good." "Don't you think that looks good?" "The Sotheby's label would have said "Black chalk, brown"..." "You know how those thing... "Black chalk, brown wash, red chalk."" "I just use color pencils, you know, 'cause they can't tell." "I just like to copy things 'cause it's what's..." "It's reassuring, and I remember it from when I was growing up." "You know, I would do it at night to occupy myself." "You can see the veins under the skin." "That's so beautiful." "I have this sort of gimmick for being able to remember something... just long enough to get it onto paper." "It's something they were very interested in at the Menninger Foundation." "I was there for more than a year when I was 18." "I insisted on leaving." "See, people that follow the advice of those places, they're mental patients all their lives." "You know, they'll be old someday, and what can they say?" "I've been through a lot lately." "I have these bad dreams." "It's like Mother's there." "And then I wake up and I realize she's not, and my heart's banging real bad." "See, this grass and stuff is-is nothing." "See, it's practically done just like..." "Well, you know, they told Mother at the Menninger Foundation, they said I was a bright little boy." "They said, "He's a bright little boy."" "They said that to Mother." "But they said I was inclined to be mischievous... from time to time." "Museums..." "they don't like to be duped." "They don't like to get forgeries or fakes into their collections." "Oklahoma City actually put one of 'em on display because we thought that it was real." "We had received a watercolor by Louis Valtat." "Yeah, I mean, when we found out... that we had had this thing on display for five months, we immediately went into the gallery and took it off the wall." "And then that's when I started letting people know." "Sent a message out to the Registrars listserv, and within the first hour, my phone was ringing off the hook, and my e-mail box was getting full." "And I think within the first hour, I had talked to, like, 20 institutions." "'Cause I'd say to 'em, I'd say, "Well, what do you have?" and they would tell me." "I said, "Well, this museum has that, and this museum has that,"" "and they didn't believe me." "It took me three times talking with the director... at the University of Kentucky Museum of Art before I could convince her... that the pieces that they had received were forgeries." "He's been doing it over 30 years, and I've found 46 museums in 20 states... with more than a hundred pieces that he's offered up to these institutions." "Well, I just remember the time that I spent with Landis personally." "Here's this great collector that has a lot of money, and, you know, the director wanted me to take him into storage, wanted me to take him through the museum." "Um, so he per..." "He wasted a lot of my time." "But I just keep building my case... because I don't think that he's gonna stop." "He brought with him two briefcases... satchels, really." "In one of the satchels, he had the small Koran... that he had sent us an image of and the auction record." "Uh, the hammer price was somewhere close to a hundred thousand dollars, sold anonymously, and he represented that that's what his mother had purchased." "There was some generational welfare." "I don't think he used that term, but he certainly implied... that there was a great deal of money... and old money... there." "His mother had a home in Paris." "And I think... believe his sister..." "Emily was her name... was in Paris at that moment, uh, settling her estate." "One of the things that he brought up very quickly... was that there were more paintings... and possible endowments from the family's estate." "He knew right where to hit us." "Our soft spot... art and money." "He was very interested in the museum." "He was knowledgeable about the museum." "He was, um, you know, friendly, if a little... a little odd, but we..." "You know, we're southern." "We're used to eccentrics." "This is the piece." "It's a nice pastel." "I should've looked at it more closely, but I'm not the only curator he duped." "I have felt totally embarrassed." "We can't show that as an authentic Charles Schulz." "It-It makes us, uh, fake." "Well, I actually found out about Mark Landis, uh, a little over a year ago." "It was rather intriguing." "There's kind of a performance art quality to the act." "It made me very curious to understand more what his motivation is." "Or, uh... or how... how well he understands what the implications are." "Hello?" "Hi." "Good day, Mr. Landis." "How are you?" "  Pretty good." "  I certainly appreciate you taking my call." "Anyway, I got your e-mail." "As you might imagine, I have a number of questions that I'd like to ask you." "Oh, sure, sure." "Well, I'd like to ask you some questions about, uh... about what makes you, uh, compelled to do this." "It's-It's a long story." "It's hard to, you know..." "And I know, you know..." "I know we both..." "I mean, well..." "You know." "It's a long story." "This is..." "This is Mother's..." "Mother and Dad's wedding album." "Okay." "That's Mother." "That's the table that's there." "There's Mother and Dad." "There's Mother and Dad again." "See, they're cutting the cake with-with Dad's sword, which is there." "See?" "Isn't Mother beautiful?" "And they had a cocker spaniel too." "Just like in Lady and the Tramp." "And then they had me 'cause Buster died." "Dad was a naval officer." "We traveled all the time." "And Mother and Dad of course were young, and they liked to travel around Europe and see things... even when it wasn't on business." "And of course they took me with them, you know." "Dad would take me around to the museums." "We'd come back with catalogs, and Mother and Dad would go out at night, you know." "They were young, and I would be in the hotel." "There wasn't a TV." "I would copy pictures." "Occasionally, there was a babysitter, but they aren't that easy." "But, you know, the hotel would periodically send someone up to look in on me." "You know." "I-I think." "What do you call it?" "Uh, I-I couldn't think of anything else, so-so I just called it a memory trick." "The earliest I remember doing anything like it... would have been when I was about eight or something... in a hotel room copying pictures out of catalogs." "And you would put the piece of paper up close to the picture you were copying, and then the closer I got," "I guess somehow I just ended up putting the piece of paper over the..." "And even though I couldn't see through the piece of paper," "I could flip it back and forth enough to get a likeness." "The memory trick's sort of like a magic trick... or an illusion trick, or whatever you have... a conjurer's trick." "You know?" "It's the same kind of thing." "And so you enjoy..." "You get..." "You get a little bit..." "a little boost, you know." "And did you want to be an artist?" "You know how it is when you're that age." "You see something on TV, you wanna be this, and then you wanna be that." "I saw A Dog of Flanders." "I'll take this one." "Mother and Dad bought me a TV for my birthday in '69." "When I was young, I thought I'd won the lottery... if I could just get decent TV reception." "But you use your imagination, you know?" "'Cause lots of times the reception was so bad I just had to guess." "There is nothing wrong with your television set." "We are controlling transmission." "Those who have nothing to hide have nothing to fear... from ze Gestapo." "And stuff like that." "You know what I mean." "Get a little..." "a little clouds here." "Some happy little clouds." "Your majesty, may I present the infamous Simon Templar?" "I live by the code of The Saint." "Dad and I both lived by it." "You don't remember The Saint?" "Oh, it was a great show." "The Saint was such a hero." "No matter how bad a girl was, he'd always let her get away." "He never shot a girl." "My favorite musical is How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying." "Remember when Vince said, "By George, ethical behavior always pays off"?" "But he was just making a joke because ethical behavior doesn't pay off." "That's why Dad never got on... 'cause he was too much of a gentleman." "He was nothing like me." "I would have been an immense disappointment to him." "Speaking of your father, uh, your father was an officer and a gentleman," "That's true. and he knew nothing of intrigue or deceit." "And that's why people like Dad couldn't be a businessman." "After all, you know, Saint Peter lied, you know?" "Where would the church be if Saint Peter didn't lie?" "You have to let your conscience be your guide." "If something seems..." "really bad, or something... if something seems wrong, you know..." "Do you have any idea why at this point you haven't been prosecuted?" "'Cause I-I didn't do anything wrong or illegal." "He's uncovered an international case of deception... that has ended with dozens of museums saddled with bogus works of art." "What I did was looked up this piece online." "I found the same one at the Savannah College of Art and Design." "The piece was one of five donated to the Oklahoma City museum... where Matt Leininger worked in 2008, donated by this man," "Mark Landis, in memory of his mother." "He also found the aliases..." "Stephen Gardner and Father Scott." "Landis likely knows by now..." "Cincinnati's Director of Museum Services has his number." "Good stuff." "Come here, bub." "Who's that guy?" "Mark Landis?" "Who?" "Mark Landis." "Yeah, that's Mark Landis." "Hi." "It's nice to see you again." "How are you doing?" "All right." "Thanks." "Your medication..." "you're on Geodon." "You've been taking that?" "I have." "Got a few left." "Got a few left." "You keep taking it just like you're supposed to, okay?" "Any depressive symptoms?" "Have you been upset more..." "lately about anything?" "Anything on your mind?" "Well, I'm getting..." "I'm getting, you know." "I guess as time goes by, I'll get over what happened to Mother." "Okay." "Yeah." "Yeah, I know for a lot of years, you were taking care of her, right?" "I moved in with her after the hurricane." "And see, since Mother's been gone, it would be... two years?" "Took me a long time to get over it." "But I had to answer, 'cause they kept banging..." "Everybody kept banging on the door, you know." "And I was too upset still to type an obituary and stuff like that, you know." "Had to pull myself together for her funeral." "In Sunday school they always tell everybody... to make use of your gifts, you know?" "And copying pictures is my gift." "I decided to be a philanthropist." "It happened as an impulse back in '85, I think." "I wanted to impress Mother that I'd done something for Father's memory." "I-I thought it would please Mother." "Do you think she had any suspicions of what you were doing?" "Oh, yeah." "The mother always knew when I was up to mischief." "You know how mothers are." "So she knew why you were traveling?" "She'd have known." "Huh." "But she was proud of me." "And then later on..." "I could tell she was sort of proud, but..." "Well, but that's..." "Let's not say that." "I mean, she didn't mind." "Let's put it like that." "Uh, I had the inspiration to be a priest about a year ago." "Seems longer, so much has happened." "I went on philanthropic binges... in Mother's car... in states..." "the southern states... and Florida, and a bit in Texas." "And I took some bus trips." "That's the joke that they have in aristocratic families from England." "They always say oldest son goes to the navy, next one goes to the army, next one for a profession, and we always give the fool to the church." "See, the church could use some talent." "They could use a guy like me, you know?" "I'd be a good priest." "Gee, I can't go to one of those places for six years." "And they're hard too, you know?" "They're crazy." "You can learn everything you need to know to be a good priest... from the Father Brown DVD series with Kenneth More just like that." "See, over time... that's exactly their thinking, you know?" "2601 Gentilly Boulevard... is three-quarters of a mile away." "Well, I've heard that some museums are... quite distressed and maybe upset... that he has donated paintings... and they were not original works." "I don't have evidence." "I've just heard." "I occasionally have empathy." "Um..." "I used to have empathy." "I don't anymore." "I do believe he knows what he was doing was wrong." "I'm not a person who wants vengeance." "I just want him to stop." "The schematics..." "It is a serious crime, and we can't tolerate that." "No matter what issues or challenges you may have, that's still no excuse." "And, um, you either need to be hospitalized or you need to be in jail." "Thanks, Father." "Bless you." "Yeah, I first heard about Mark Landis... back around 2005 or 2006 when I had gotten a call..." "I was still working at the F.B.I. I was still an agent." "I got a call from Matt Leininger." "And he was the one who told me about this situation with this individual... who was doing, uh, forgeries, fake pieces of art, and giving them to museums around the country." "The art world's a very strange place, you know?" "A lot of things happen in the art world." "In this particular case, I think that the forgeries, the-the gifts of the forgeries... were basically an ego satisfaction... for the painter, Mr. Landis." "Matt Leininger has been the only person that has pursued this from the beginning." "Uh, he's stayed on top of it." "He's done a great job of-of... of, uh, pursuing it almost to the point of obsession." "There we go." "Hey, Jonah." "It's Matt Leininger in Cincinnati." "I wanted to talk to you and give you an update on, um, Landis... and bring you up to speed just because I know you would have an interest, and, uh, maybe there's be something that you could, uh, write at your new position, um," "for a local publication so we can just keep spreading the word about Landis." "Why don't you go upstairs?" "Hello?" "Hey, Matt, it's Jonah." "Hey, Jonah." "How are you doing, man?" "Good, good." "Oh, not a problem." "Well, do you know of his third and fourth aliases?" "Okay." "Well, and it's the biggest screwball story I've ever heard about in my life." "And I ask the good Lord every day." "It's, like, "Why am I the one?"" "You know?" "Why am I the one that found this guy?" "Well, so what do you know of Matthew Leininger then?" "Did you find out about him through being contacted from one..." "I couldn't have spent much time with him 'cause..." "And the only time I can think of would have been when I was in the basement down there." "Um, that's..." "I-I-I-I don't even know what he looks like." " But you realize he's been keeping tabs on you?" " Oh, yeah, I know all that." "I found his fourth alias." "He hit Loyola University in New Orleans as Mark Lanois." "Well, I'm still looking for full-time work, but I got a part-time gig going on." "And that's what I've been doing." "Maybe that's my gig right now." "I am to be a stay-at-home dad, and, uh..." "It's just weird being a..." "you know." "It's just weird being the man of the house and being at home." "So do you want a taco?" "Yep." "Okay." "Tacos with soap." "No, no, no, no." "Don't put soap in it." "Then your juice will taste like soap." "Yuck!" "Hey, I know you're excited about school." "Just..." "No, I'm not." "Can you calm down a little bit?" "I'm not." "We got to go." "I thought they said it was gonna warm up a little bit today." "Hey, girl." "Yeah, we go through hiccups in life." "It's been 15 months since the first time ever... that I was ever let go from, um, a position." "Do I think that, um, the Cincinnati Art Museum, um, had something against me or were scared because I was onto Landis?" "Um..." "They told me that while I am working for the art museum," "I am not to accept phone calls, send or receive e-mails, uh, regarding Landis." "Period." "You do it on your own." "And soon after that, they let me know I didn't have a job anymore." "But you can see every state..." "California, Arizona, New Mexico," "Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee..." "When Matt contacted me, he gave me a list... of the many museums that he had been following." "The idea that the museums may have thought that the paintings were real or not real, that's all dependent upon the specific museum, which one you speak to." "If they thought it was real, it's still..." "They didn't spend any money for it." "And it wasn't like Landis went in and said," ""Here, I'm gonna give you this fabulous painting by Picasso, and you need to pay me a hundred thousand dollars for the painting,"" "and then received the money, which would..." "That would be a crime, okay?" "That's a fraud." "But the fact is he gave it to the museum for free." "It's up to the museum to determine what they wanna think of it." "I don't know if Landis has become a-a-a obsession for, um, the general public or the ones at museums." "Uh, I believe that, um..." "I mean, I..." "I am, you know, anal retentive." "I have been diagnosed with, like, a..." "What do they call it now?" "O.C.D. or A.D.H.D. or whatever." "Um, but when I get focused on something," "I mean, I stick to it and I stay on it... until I get to the end of it, you know?" "I had a nervous breakdown when I was 17... 'cause I was upset about Dad passing." "I went into one hospital that..." "for..." "'Cause to just see if it was a physical..." "And of course we know whenever they can..." "And so they..." "Then there was, you know, the psychiatric part of the..." "Yeah, see, this stuff all goes back to '72." ""Schizophrenic paranoid and psychotic disorders."" "I got that." ""Personality disorders." I got that." ""Catatonic or other grossly disorganized behavior."" "I guess I've got that too." "Well, it says I've got it, so..." ""Incoherence"..." "Well, wait a minute." "I didn't mean to laugh." "Gee, that's awful." ""Oddities of thought, perception, speech and behavior."" "Oh, no." "I don't have that." "Yeah, okay." "I'm okay on that one." "I've just got the pathologically inappropriate suspiciousness... and impulsive and damaging behavior." "That I've got." "Oh, that's bad enough." "Okay." "And you went into the clinic at that point?" "Mother's friend suggested the Menninger Founda... which is a fine place." "Were you happy there?" "Oh, yeah." "And you were there for about two years, I guess?" "Well, you know." " I mean, happy enough." " Yeah." "So, um, when you were in Chicago, you studied photography." "When you went to San Francisco, did you?" "Um, I took photography." "I should..." "Do you have any of the photographs that-that, uh, that you took?" "No." "No?" "You know, that's the thing." "I learned all the processes... 'cause I thought if I was going to school at the government's expense," "I should learn how to do something." "But after I learned the processes," "I couldn't think of a thing I wanted to take a picture of." "The first picture I remember giving away... was a Maynard Dixon drawing of an Indian." "And did you do it?" "And I actually did it." "Yeah, I drew it." "And not only did I actually draw it, it was my own Indian because... 'cause I checked out a book on Indians from the library... and then I drew a picture of an Indian." "I used to actually do things... before I found out what all you could do with the machines." "Let's do this..." "No, let's not do that one." "Ah!" "We can do the little boy on the beach." "We can do Picasso's... really unattractive sister with a mustache." "Oh, it says "originals." That's just for me." "You know, like, so I'd be able to know... what was the original one from the one I ran off." "That's why I put a little "O" on the back... "O" for "original."" "I would use this to blow it up 154 times... so that I could paste it onto a piece of wood... that I got them to cut for me at Lowe's... 'cause they don't have a Home Depot in Laurel." "And..." "But Lowe's is just as good." "You know, maybe bang up the edges a little, and then you're in business." "I already stained it with instant coffee." "Now I make it look like thick paint, then simulate paint strokes with that stuff I got." "It's difficult, 'cause I-I-I don't know... whether he used a knife and scraped around her... or anything." "It's the parts where it's real dark... and the eye will be deceived." "You know, heaven only knows how he painted it." "They're not gonna know either, so..." "I chose this room for my paintings." "You will find a somewhat, um, varied selection... from the chiaroscuro of the Dutch masters... to the symbolic fantasies..." "The only reason I would've known... about Picasso and his Blue Period... would've been because I saw Gambit." "She was just showing off her knowledge." "Picasso, and one of his best, I always think." "Oh, the Blue Period." "The kids that I'd have been in class with, when they daydreamed, they'd think," ""Gee, wouldn't it be cool to be like those artists in movies?"" "But I always liked the stuffy, rich art collectors." "They must be worth thousands." "Hundreds of thousands." "Yes." "The patrons." "Those are the people I used to daydream about." "So how long have you lived here now, Mark?" "Since the hurricane." "Since the hurricane." "Donna was the first caseworker that I had." "My first one and a good one back when I got out of the group home." "What is this sword?" "That's Grandfather's sword." "And Dad's sword too." "See the "A.L."?" "Mm-hmm." "See? "A.L."" "And so how are your two boys getting along?" "They're good." "Growing up." "Do you remember when I showed you... the romance of the paper clips?" "Yes." "It inspired you." "It inspired me." "So how have you been feeling?" "Pretty good." "Pretty good." "Taking care of yourself?" "Yeah." "As you can see." "Yes." "How are you doing on your medicine?" "Are you taking it?" "Oh, yeah." "Definitely, definitely." "So do you get out much?" "And of course..." "Do you go out to eat or do much in the community?" "Mmm." "Or do you mainly stay at home?" "Uh." "In the Metropolitan." "In Atlanta?" "Yeah." "Oh, I changed my name, you know." "So you gave them an icon?" "Yeah." "You told them that you lost your sister?" "Yeah." "I think it might be better... not to mention my mother anymore." "For a while." "Okay." "Oh, I'll show you Mother's picture." "That's Mother when she was 17." "Mm-hmm." "I did that in high school." "Did she pose for you, or did you just do it?" " No." "I did it from that photograph." " Okay." "Mark is one of those people who, you know, I think of often... and worry that he's doing okay." "I'm really not sure how I feel... about the escapades that he goes on." "But we want to protect our clients' rights... to live a productive life." "Unless he was a danger to someone else or himself," "Mark is in fact in charge of himself." "I was called by an editor one day from London, and she'd heard about Mark and she said," ""Would you be at all interested in looking into it... 'cause it sounds crazy and interesting and strange."" "And I got some public records... of various numbers of places he'd lived." "He'd lived in a lot of different places, and there were lots of phone numbers listed." "And I tried ringing a few of them, but I never got anywhere." "And so I thought, well, the only way to do this is to go." "To go to Laurel." "And I thought, well, when I'm down there, I'll sort of poke around... and see if I can find his trail." "I went to see the curator of the local museum in Laurel." "They mentioned that they sometimes saw him around town, and I had an address for his mother's apartment from the public records, and so I literally just drove around there." "It was a very strange place for me." "I'd never really been to a small town in Mississippi before." "I had been told that he was schizophrenic." "Uh, certainly the way that people talked about Mark, they talked about him as if he was somebody quite strange, and I was a little bit nervous about being there by myself." "But I rang on the doorbell." "There was a light on inside, and I could hear this classical music playing." "But there was no reply." "Nothing." "By that time, I was really getting quite obsessed by it, and I'd spoken to a couple of the neighbors, and they'd talked about Mark a little bit." "And so I really, really wanted to meet him." "All afternoon, nothing." "I saw the light go on, the light go off, but it was just like he was so obstinate, he was not gonna come out." "At dusk I drove away, and I was really regretful." "I thought, "I'm never gonna actually see him."" "Literally the next week, I was walking along the street and my mobile phone rang." "And I just..." "I realized it was Landis." "And I thought, "Oh, my God." "He's calling me."" "The point at which you realized that you had been discovered, when did that happen?" "See, it's the Financial..." "I remember John was calling all the time... but I thought it was something to do with... wanting me to subscribe or something." "I don't know." "He's such a gentleman." "Fair play and a straight bat." "They don't really think about it much, you know?" "'Cause I always knew they'd find out sooner or later." "I mean, they're always going to." "You know, it's either today or might be 10 years... or maybe 20 years or 30 years." "Sometimes I used to think..." "Until a couple years ago, I used to think," ""Why not just spend the rest of my life doing this?"" "It's clearly my... my, uh... my calling." "That was my idea to put the raincoat on." "Like on all those movies where some shifty-looking guy comes up on the street." ""Moi, Mark Landis, peintre, et philanthrope."" "I like that." "Actually, I didn't read it that closely." "In some ways, Mark was unlucky that he provoked Matt Leininger... because he has been doing this for decades... without anybody really getting on his trail." "And it was Matt that really took offense at what he'd done... and decided that he would get him." "Hey, Katie." "What?" "Look at this." "Who's that?" " That's Mark Landis." " Yeah, Mark Landis." "That's right." "Are you crazy?" "Am I crazy?" "Mm-hmm." "Um, no." "Look at this." "Mark Landis." "And who's that?" "Mark Landis." "You don't like Mark Landis anymore?" "Well, I was frustrated with Landis... and angry with him when I first found out about him, but I'm not mad at Landis anymore, no." "But are you mad at girls and the boys at your old job?" "Am I mad at the guys and girls at my old job?" "Mm-hmm." "No." "That's in my past, Katie." "I'm not gonna let anything like that..." "Can you put that back in there for Dad if I hold this up?" "Here, slide it in real easy." "One of the first things Mark said to me... when he'd admitted what he'd been doing... was that he was worried that he will simply become too well known... that nobody will let him in a museum ever again." "I remember I was trying to think... of things that might calm me down." "I went to the emergency room, and I got whatever that is." "Made me throw up." ""Lorzapam." Yep. "Lorazepam."" "Yeah, and then I thought..." "I noticed on TCN, they were always having cigarettes to calm down." "And I was sort of desperate, and I thought I would try a cigarette." "But of course I wasn't doing it for..." "You know, all these influences kind of get to you, you know?" "And they always recommend "Have a cigarette." You know?" "And I thought maybe it will help to calm me down... so I don't keep pacing up and down." "I'm guarded about anything... that casts aspersions on... your integrity." "And, uh..." "And that's dishonorable and unethical." "Didn't have much of a reputation, but..." "Well, you know it..." "really got ruined, uh, uh, more so than they thought even." "I worry that it's..." "I'm going to be..." "I'm going to be like Dad... as a crook and a drinker and a smoker, you know." "Which is all pretty bad." "It's pretty negative, you know?" "That, uh..." "Necessity is the mother of invention... sometimes the stepmother of deception." "That pretty much takes care of things." "Lights!" "Turn on the lights!" "I can't believe that Professor Bowen and Carlotta would purposely deceive us." "Necessity, mother of invention, but sometimes stepmother of deception." "Mark?" "Hey." "Hi." "Okay. 122." "How's your appetite?" "Pretty good." "Any suicidal thoughts?" "No." "Wanting to hurt anyone else?" "No." "Are you hearing voices or seeing..." "No." "How's your mother?" "She still with you?" "No." "No?" "Um, she passed away." "Oh, I'm sorry." "I didn't know that." "When did she pass away?" "Two years ago." "Two years ago?" "I didn't realize that." "I'm so sorry." "I think I met her back when Katrina came through." "I thought I told you." "The what?" "I thought I told you." "Well, that's all right." "I'm sorry." "Don't worry about it." "How are you doing since she's gone?" "Oh, okay." "I got addicted to being a philanthropist." "When you're doing it or something, uh, you kind of believe it... while you're giving things away." "You believe it while it's going on, you know." "Like a part." "Like those guys on... that are really good at it." "You know, good actors, you know, those ones." "Not that I think of it as act..." "being an actor, but in any event," "I just wasn't really used to having anybody treat me like that." "Actually, I wasn't used to it all..." "Used to." "I mean, it seldom happened." "Let's put it like th..." "Let's put it like that." "Seldom happened that people were nice to me." "¶¶" "I kind of have a feel for the way that things should flow." "Okay." "Possibly this wall and this wall... will be little snapshots of notable figures... that demonstrate what is different about his particular case..." "Okay." "Versus other forgers of the past really." "Aaron Cowan and I used to be coworkers... at Cincinnati Art Museum." "And he read the story in the New York Times." "And he says, "Have you thought about doing an exhibition?"" "I said, "Absolutely, and I believe that I could get the lenders for the show, but I don't have a venue."" "Up on the east coast, he went further north." "He skipped Texas." "Yeah." "That's interesting." "That is interesting, isn't it?" "The show focuses on... using a predecessor's work as inspiration... versus simply plagiarizing the work." "Throughout here, we'll be showing the different... gifts that he made in the different locations." "So it is literally a timeline." "Potentially, yes." "Wouldn't it be great to get these forgeries together in one place... and then invite Landis as guest of honor?" "At that point, it sort of brings us up to the point at which Matt, uh, discovered the forgeries that they had." "Okay." "It's not going to glamorize Landis." "It's going to be about educating and telling people don't take things at face value." "Do your due diligence, and here are examples... of some of these institutions that, um... that were duped." "So how do you feel about, uh, there being an exhibition?" "Uh, well, I-I..." "I think that's pretty nice of you." "It's, uh, uh..." "I'll send you some good things... 'cause you can't have all that much space." "So you wouldn't need that many." "Oh, we've got a pretty good..." "good-sized gallery here." " Oh." "Well, all right." " You might be surprised." "'Cause I can send you some good things I did." "I did things that were pretty bad, but I was..." "I mean..." "I mean the pictures, you know." "You know what I mean." "Okay, I'm gonna write down this FedEx number." "¶¶" "Hi, Matt." "How's it going?" "Good." "How are you?" "I cannot believe this." "There's the Alfred Jacob Millers." "I didn't think they were so small." "Geez." "He just went all out." "See, this is an older paper." "I mean, you can't distress foxing." "You know, you can't make paper, you know..." "That's what that is." "That's foxing in the paper." "Where he got it, I don't know." "All I can say is what I know." "What is this?" "Oh, Landis." "Landis." "It'd be really interesting to peel this back and see if it smells like coffee." "And Dr. Seuss." "My daughter would love this." "She loves Cat in the Hat." "Unbelievable." "A treaty warrant?" "Treasurer of the Republic of Texas?" "Mm-hmm." "Are you serious?" "This is a f..." "This is a forged official document." "Oh, yeah." "I totally see the pixels." "And there's more coming?" "That's my understanding." "How many do we have here?" "Well, we're just going through 'em now." "You gotta turn it." "Oh, you turn it." "Okay." "All right." "Oh, yeah, look at that." "See, everywhere where there's not paint, that's the digital reproduction underneath of it." "Have you looked at the Picasso underneath the black light?" "Nice." "There you go." "There it is there." "Look at all that throughout the face." "Yeah." "Now let's go down to the signature." "It's not that fluorescent." "You know, when you're receiving works like this, you have got to scrutinize the gifts." "I mean, you have to be careful." "You have to do your due diligence." "So it's a men's 38-regular jacket." "Well, it definitely shows his size, and he is a little guy." "I think she's got a problem." "Ethel's got her hair all skinned back like a wet Pekingese." "Well, now that you have been discovered, um, do you plan on continuing to gift?" "I-I kinda had... thought I'd wanna think about it." "There just isn't anything to do, you know?" "You just sit and watch TV, you know, and..." "Uh..." "Well, you've done it pretty recently, haven't you?" "Oh, yeah." "I know, I know." "I know what you're talking about." "Yeah, I went to a bunch of places that day." "I should probably be clear with you." "I personally do find what you're doing to be wrong, but I don't think that you're doing it in a mean-spirited way." "But I certainly have to ask you if you would consider to... to stop doing what you're doing." "Where's the thing..." "Where's the thing you put..." "I went out and smoked anyway." "It's all this..." "not-eat fasting, you know?" "Wow, I gotta sit down." "This time what's wrong with me?" "I don't see why I am so keyed up now." "Still, what's wrong with me?" "Like, you know, all those science fiction shows, you know?" "People would be better off if they could be proper Vulcans, you know?" "I mean, the real thing, not like on that show." "You know, and not have emotions, you know?" "Then you wouldn't get so upset by things." "But it'll probably be a million years before... human beings evolve to that point." "That's not too bad." "Well, he didn't get in trouble for it." "He's just kind of famous for it." "But you can see through..." "But you can tell... a lot of difference." "Wow, that's amazing." "...that his work is just pretty stunning." "As a painter and a draftsman, he's really quite talented." "I don't know what to expect, and I don't know what his expectation is." "When I see him, I just don't know what to say." "'Cause I..." "I mean, honestly, I-I-I..." "I don't know if even... if I want to say, "Good to see you again."" "I think it's just gonna be, "Hey, I'm Matt Leininger."" "Oh, don't feel like you even have to say anything." "I don't think, you know?" "It's, uh, short and honest, I guess." "How are you?" "Nice to see you again." "Nice to see you." "Hi." "Nice to see you." "Hi, Mr. Landis." "How are you?" "Are you Aaron?" "Good, thanks." "You're-You're Aaron?" "I'm-I'm the dean of C.C.M." "Uh, the conservatory of music." "Holy cow." "He made it here." "You look like an artist, all right." "Yeah." "You sure do." "I know you were..." "You're-You're an artist from central casting." "You know?" "Well, you're quite an artist yourself." "You look like a..." "like-like a beatnik artist." "He'll be out there for two hours speaking 'cause nobody can get a word in edgewise." "I bet you designed it." "She did." "I made it." "I made it, and I made these." "That's really nice." "Oh, and you did the ear..." "You mean, you actually made those?" "Yes." "By hand with a coping saw, soldering." "Well, that's..." "The stone I found on..." "I'll tell you..." "I tell you, arts and crafts is just the greatest thing." "And watch TV when you do it too." "May I... say something to you?" "Oh, yeah, sure." "I'm very straightforward, and I'm not trying to be offensive either." "No, she's never offensive." "But your work is so nice..." "It's amazing." "Why don't you just do it yourself and put your name on it..." "Oh, yeah." "Rather than copying somebody else?" "Well, I did  The Young Virgin." "Oh, you did?" "So you're gonna give me a tour?" "Uh, cer..." "Certainly." "I can take you around." "I think that you should probably..." "Nobody ever looks like what you think they'll look like." "Well, I had the good fortune of seeing photographs of you beforehand." "Uh, uh, Mr. Landis, uh, you might be interested to meet this gentleman." "This is, uh, Matthew Leininger." "Hi, I'm Matthew Leininger." "Oh, nice to see..." "Nice to see you again." "Yeah, nice to see you too." "It's been about five years." "Did you have safe travels?" "I'll tell..." "We..." "I couldn't have talked to you for very long." "Couldn't have been more than a few minutes." "Well, anyway, nice to see you again." "Nice to see you." "Nice to see you too." "And, um..." "Oh, we-we-well..." "You're gonna give me a... give me a tour?" " You gonna come along?" " I would love to come along with you guys." "Oh, come along." "Come along." "I'm terribly sorry if I..." "But listen... anything I can do for you, you just let me know, you know?" "You can stop." "Oh, yeah, definitely." "Hey, did I get the colors right on that?" "What-What are the real colors?" "What..." "It'd be..." "On the Valtat?" "It'd be kind of funny to know." "But I see that you used the same colors... that you did in your Signac drawings." "Do you think that reproductions in catalogs... are true representations of what the artist's intent?" "Definitely not, because there's no telling what the real colors are like." "Yeah." "They always get it wrong." "Well, you know, sometimes, you know, reproductions in catalogs can be true to..." "Yeah." "I just had to guess, you know?" "I've seen all this stuff, to tell you the truth." "So you're not interested in seeing this?" "Nah." "Is there anybody nice to talk to like those other people?" "Well, I'm nice to talk to." "Oh, yeah, sure." "Did I say you weren't?" "No." "I said, "Is there anybody nice to talk to?"" "Well, yeah, I guess it does..." "I should've said, "Is there anybody else nice to"..." "Oh, yeah, there's a bunch of nice people in there." "I'm not running for office." "Oh, I know." "I'm not a politician." "I know." "I slip up all the time." "No, I think everybody in this room is nice." "There must be somebody that..." "Any art students around?" "Oh, I'm sure." "I'm certain many of these young people are art students." "Let's talk to some art students." "Why don't you guys go ahead, and I'll catch up with you." "Are you an art student?" "Oh, pleasure to meet you." "Nice to meet you." "Where are you from, Italy?" "Iran." "Huh?" "Iran." "Oh, no kidding?" "Wow." "God bless." "You're an artist, right?" "Yeah." "Oh." "Hey, how are you?" "You look like an artist." "I'm an artist." "I'm the dean of the college here." "Oh." "I'm Mark Landis." "Pleasure to meet you." "Yeah, I know." "I'm happy to meet you." "Anybody..." "I-I get back, but..." "What do you think about your show?" "Oh, it's real nice of you." "Thanks a lot." "Oh, you're welcome." "I-I'm not really an artist." "I-I used to..." "Yeah, you are." "I used to like to do arts and crafts, yeah." "When I'm watching TV." "Got used to it, you know." "You should do paintings with your real own name." "Yeah, oh, yeah." "Well, I used to." "And you should exhibit them in galleries." "I used to." "I did..." "I did that." "That's got my name on it." "Why don't you pick a church or a scene that you're interested in, paint it, and you can make five paintings of the same piece?" "I like pictures of saints and martyrs and stuff like that." "And Joan of..." "She's our patron saint, you know." "Looks like a lot of people have been here." "You know how students are..." "freeloaders." "At least they used to..." "Okay, I'm a permanent student." "Are you a permanent student?" "I'm a..." "I was a nontraditional student too." "I never..." "I never got a degree." "I'm glad I..." "I'm lucky to have a high school diploma." "But you must have been very talented." "You probably were a little genius when you were a little boy." "Here." "Would you like a glass?" "Eh, I never drink... wine." "Oh, you don't?" "You saw Dracula." "You remember Dracula." "Yeah, I do." "That's Bela Lugosi's most famous line." "Oh. "I never drink... wine."" "Hey." "There you go." "You're welcome." "Well, nice to meet you." "Nice to meet you too." "Okay, bye." "Bye." "Okay." "Yeah." "Watch your step." "Thank you." "Well, Mark, I don't wanna take any more of your time." "Hey, if I caused them any trouble, I'm really, really sorry." "If they want me to say anything or do anything..." "Well, it's..." "I'm lucky to have a high school diploma, but Mother had pull." "Mother had influence, you know?" "And..." "Well, I'm sorry to hear about her passing." "Yeah." "Yeah." "You been handling that okay?" "Not really." "Uh, but..." "What about any other friends or family that you've got for support?" "No." "Well, look, you just keep in touch with..." "And look, to tell you the truth," "I haven't been reading your e-mails... 'cause I assumed they're more than likely to be bad news." "Oh, yeah." "Especially nowadays." "Like a bill... or something from the I.R.S., so I don't open 'em." "So I never looked at any of your e-mails, but if you send me another e-mail after today, I'll read it." "Okay." "'Cause we're all friends now." "Right." "I have no delusions about being... any sort of a serious artist, let alone a great one." "No delusions whatsoever about that sort of thing." "But I'd kind of like to sort of be one." "I might say it gives you a sense of purpose, but that sounds pretentious." "We all like to feel useful." "Whatever ability we happen to have, we like to make use of it." "So everyone's different, and everyone's the same." "And there's three million stories in the naked city, and this has been one of 'em." "And that's..." "That's kind of the best way I can put it." "I knew I wouldn't continue being a philanthropist." "And it's just as well, probably, because I would from time to time get carried away." "I happened upon this idea... returning missing or stolen artwork... to their... owners." "Things I could actually do, which would be small drawings and small paintings." "After all, a book that's had a page torn out of it..." "It is nice to be able to put the page back in." "I'd like to go to 73rd and Park Avenue."