"RUTH ELIAS (ISRAEL)" "Crematorium V" "At the end of February," "I was in a night squad at Crematorium V." "Around midnight, there appeared a man from the political section:" "Oberscharfuhrer Hustek." "He handed Oberscharfuhrer Voss a note." "Voss was then in charge of the 4 crematoria." "I saw" "Voss unfold the note" "and talk to himself, saying, "Sure, always Voss." ""What'd they do without Voss?" "How can we do it?"" "That's how he talked to himself." "Suddenly he told me, "Go get the kapos"." "I fetched the kapos, kapo Schloime, and kapo Wacek." "They came in, and he asked them:" ""How many pieces are left?"" "By "pieces" he meant bodies." "They told him:" ""Around 500 pieces."" "He said: "By morning, those 500 pieces must be" ""reduced to ashes." ""You're sure it's 500?"" ""Just about", they said." ""Assholes!" "What do you mean "just about"?"" "Then he left for the "undressing room" to see for himself." "Where the bodies were." "They were piled there:" "At Crematorium V, the "Undressing room" also serve as a warehouse for bodies" "After the gassing?" "After the gassing the bodies were dragged there." "Voss went there to check." "He forgot the note" "leaving it on the table." "I quickly scanned it and was shocked by what I read." "BIRKENAU The lake of ashes" "The crematorium was to be gotten ready for "special treatment" of the Czech family camp." "In the morning, when the day squad came on," "I ran into kapo Kaminski, one of the Resistance leaders in the "special detail"" "and told him the news." "He informed me that Crematorium II was also being prepared." "That the ovens were ready there, too." "And he exhorted me:" ""You have friends and fellow-countrymen." ""Go see them." "They're locksmiths and can move around" ""so they can go to Camp B II B." ""Tell them to warn these people" ""of what's in store for them" ""and say that if they defend themselves, we'll reduce" ""the crematoria to ashes." ""And at camp B II B, they can immediately" ""burn down their barracks."" "We were certain that the next night, these people would be gassed." "But when no night squad went out, we were relieved." "The deadline had been postponed for a few days." "But many prisoners, including the Czechs in the family camp, accused us of spreading panic of having" "circulated false reports." "That night I was at Crematorium II." "As soon as the people got out of the vans, they were blinded by floodlights and forced through a corridor to the stairs leading to the "undressing room"." "They were blinded, made to run." "Blows were rained on them." "Those who didn't run fast enough were beaten to death." "By the SS." "The violence used against them was extraordinary." "And suddenly..." "Without explanation?" "Not a word." "As soon as they left the vans, the beatings began." "When they entered the "undressing room"," "I was standing near the rear door, and from there" "I witnessed the frightful scene." "The people were bloodied." "They knew then where they were." "They stared at the pillars of the so-called" ""International Information Center" I've mentioned, and that terrified them." "What they read didn't reassure them." "On the contrary, it panicked them." "They knew the score." "They'd learned at Camp B II B what went on there." "They were in despair." "Children clung to each other." "Their mothers, their parents, the old people all cried, overcome with misery." "Suddenly, some SS officers appeared on the steps, including the camp commandant, Schwarzhuber." "He'd given them his word as an SS officer that they'd be transferred to Heidebreck." "So they all began to cry out, to beg, shouting:" ""Heidebreck was a trick!" ""We were lied to!" "We want to live!" "We want to work!"" "They looked their SS executioners in the eye, but the SS men" "remained impassive, just staring at them." "There was a movement in the crowd." "They probably wanted to rush to the SS men and tell them how they'd been lied to, then some guards surged forward, wielding clubs, and more people were injured." "In the "undressing room"?" "Yes." "The violence climaxed when they tried to force the people to undress." "A few obeyed, only a handful." "Most of them refused to follow the order." "Suddenly, as though in chorus like a chorus..." "they all began to sing." "The whole "undressing room" rang with the Czech national anthem, and the "Hatikva"." "That moved me terribly, that..." "Please stop!" "That was happening to my countrymen, and I realized" "that my life had become meaningless." "Why go on living?" "For what?" "So I went into the gas-chamber with them," "resolved to die." "With them." "Suddenly, some who recognize me came up to me." "For my locksmith friends and I had sometimes gone into the family camp." "A small group of women approached." "They looked at me and said right there in the gas-chamber." "You were inside the gas-chamber?" "One of them said:" ""So you want to die." "But that's senseless." ""Your death won't give us back our lives." ""That's no way." ""You must get out of here alive," ""you must bear witness to our suffering," ""and to the injustice done to us."" "RUDOLF VRBA and h is friend WETZLER escaped on April 7, 1944." "Several prisoners had previously tried to flee, but all were caught." "JAN KARSKY, University Professor (USA)" "Former courier of the Polish Government in exile" "NEW YORK" "WASHINGTON" "The RU H R" "AU SC HWITZ" " BIRKEN AU" "WARS AW" "WARS AW" "Next figure:" "Dr FRANZ GRASSLER, deputy to AU ERS WALD, the Nazi Commissioner of the WARS AW ghetto." "You don't remember those days?" "Not much." "I recall more clearly my pre-war mountaineering trips than the entire war period and those days in Warsaw." "All in all, those were bad times." "It's a fact:" "We tend to forget, thank God, the bad times more easily than the good." "The bad times are repressed." "I'll help you remember..." "In Warsaw you were Dr. Auerswald's deputy." "Yes." "Dr. Auerswald was..." "Commissioner of the "Jewish district" of Warsaw." "Dr. Grassler, this is Czerniakow's diary." "You're mentioned in it." "It's been printed, it exists?" "He kept a diary that was recently published." "He wrote on July 7, 1941:" "July 7, 1941?" "That's the first time I've re-learned a date." "May I take notes?" "After all..." "it interests me too." "So in July I was already there!" "He wrote on July 7, 1941:" ""Morning in the Community" - the Jewish Council HQ..." ""and later with Auerswald, Schlosser..."" "Schlosser was..." ""And Grassler," ""on routine matters."" "That's the first time..." "That my name is mentioned..." "Yes, but there were 3 of us." "Schlosser... was in..." "the "economic department"." "I think he had to do with economics." "And the second time was on July 22." "C ZERN IAKOW was president of the Warsaw Jewish Council" "He wrote every day?" "Yes." "Yes, every day." "It's quite amazing that the diary was saved." "It's amazing that it was saved." "BURLINGTON" " VERMONT (U.S.A.)" "RAUL HILBERG" "Did you go into the ghetto?" "Seldom." "When I had to visit Czerniakow." "What were the conditions like?" "Awful." "Yes, appalling." "Yes?" "I never went back when I saw what it was like." "Unless I had to:" "In the whole period" "I think I only went once or twice." "We, at the Commission, tried to maintain the ghetto for its labor force, and especially to prevent epidemic, like typhus." "That was the big danger." "Yes." "Yes?" "Can you tell us about typhus?" "I'm not a doctor." "I only know that typhus is a very dangerous epidemic that wipes people out like the plague, and that it can't be confined to a ghetto." "If typhus had broken out..." "I don't think it did, but there was fear that if might... it would have it the Poles and the Germans." "Why was there typhus in the ghetto?" "I don't know if there was, but there was a danger, because of the famine." "People didn't get enough to eat." "That's what was so awful." "We at the Commission, did our best to feed the ghetto, so it wouldn't become an incubator of epidemics." "Aside from humanitarian factors, that's what mattered." "If typhus had broken out..." "and it didn't... it wouldn't have stopped at the ghetto." "Czerniakow also wrote:" "That one of the reasons the ghetto was walled in was because of this German fear." "Yes, absolutely!" "Fear of typhus." "He says Germans always associated Jews with typhus." "Maybe." "I'm not sure if there were grounds for it." "But imagine that mass of people packed in the ghetto..." "There weren't only the Warsaw Jews, but others who came later." "The danger kept on growing." "The Germans had a policy on the Warsaw ghetto." "What was that policy?" "You're asking more than I know." "The policy that wound up with extermination, the Final Solution..." "we knew nothing about it." "Our job was to maintain the ghetto, and try to preserve the Jews as a work force." "The Commission's goal, in fact, was very different from the one that later led to extermination." "Yes, but do you know how many people died in the ghetto each month in 1941?" "I don't know now..." "if I ever knew it." "But you did know." "There are exact figures." "I probably knew..." "Yes: 5,000 a month." "5,000 a month?" "Yes, well..." "That's a lot." "That's a lot, of course." "But there were far too many people in the ghetto." "That was it." "Far too many." "Far too many." "My question is philosophical." "What does a ghetto mean, in your opinion?" "History's full of ghettos, going back centuries, for all I know." "Persecution of the Jews wasn't a German invention, and it didn't start with World War II." "The Poles persecuted them too." "But a ghetto like Warsaw's, in a great capital, in the heart of the city that was unusual." "You say you wanted to maintain the ghetto." "Our mission wasn't to annihilate the ghetto, but to keep it alive, to maintain it." "What does "alive" mean in such" "That was the problem." "That was the whole problem..." "But people were dying in the streets." "There were bodies everywhere." "Yes." "That was the paradox." "You see it as a paradox?" "I'm sure of it." "Why?" "Can you explain?" "No." "Why not?" "Explain what?" "But the fact is..." "Jews were being exterminated daily in the ghetto." "Czerniakow wrote..." "To maintain it properly we'd have needed more substantial rations, and less crowding." "Why weren't the rations more humane?" "Why weren't they?" "That was a German decision, no?" "There was no real decision to starve the ghetto." "The big decision to exterminate came much later." "That's right, later." "In 1942." "Precisely!" "3 years later." "Just so." "Our mission, as I recall it, was to manage the ghetto, and, naturally, with those inadequate rations, and the overcrowding, a high, even excessive, death rate was inevitable." "Yes." "What does "maintain" the ghetto mean in such condition... the food, sanitation, etc?" "What would the Jews do against such measures?" "They couldn't do anything." "The Final Solution Conference was held here" "BELZEC" " Site of the extermination camp" "Why did Czerniakow commit suicide?" "Because he realized there was no future for the ghetto." "He probably saw before I did that the Jews would be killed." "I suppose the Jews already had their excellent secret services." "They were too well informed, better than we were." "Think so?" "Yes, I do." "The Jews knew more than you?" "I'm convinced of it!" "It's hard to believe." "The German administration was never informed of what would happened to the Jews." "When was the first deportation to Treblinka?" "Before Auerswald's suicide, I think." "Auerswald's?" "I mean Czerniakow's." "Sorry." "July 22." "Those are dates..." "So the deportations began July 22, 1942." "Yes." "To..." "Treblinka." "And Czerniakow killed himself July 23." "Yes, that is..." "The next day." "The next day." "So that was it, he'd realized that his idea..." "It was his idea, I think of working in good faith with the Germans, in the Jews' best interests." "He'd realized this idea, this dream, was destroyed." "That the idea was a dream." "Yes." "And when the dream faded, he took the logical way out." "Did you think this idea of a ghetto was a good one?" "A sort of self-management, right?" "That's right." "A mini-State?" "It worked well." "But it was self-management for death, no?" "We know that now." "But at the time..." "Even then!" "No!" "Czerniakow wrote:" ""We're puppets, we have no power"." "Yes." "No power." "Sure... that was..." "You Germans were the overlords." "Yes." "The overlords." "The masters." "Obviously." "Czerniakow was merely a tool." "Yes, but a good tool." "Jewish self-management worked well, I can tell you." "It worked well for 3 years," "1941, 1942, 1943... 21/2 years... and in the end..." "In the end..." ""Worked well" for what?" "To what end?" "For self-preservation." "No!" "For death!" "Yes, but..." "Self-management, self-preservation..." "That's easy to say now." "You admitted the conditions were inhuman." "Atrocious... horrible!" "Yes." "So it was clear even then..." "No!" "Extermination wasn't clear." "Now we see the result." "Extermination isn't so simple." "One step was taken, then another, and another, and another..." "Yes." "But to understand the process, one must..." "I repeat:" "Extermination did not take place in the ghetto, not at first." "Only with the evacuations." "Evacuations?" "The evacuations to Treblinka." "The ghetto could have been wiped out with weapons, as was finally done, after the rebellion." "After I'd left." "But at the start..." "Mr. Lanzmann, this is getting us nowhere." "We're reaching no new conclusions." "I don't think we can." "I didn't know then what I know now." "You weren't a nonentity." "But I was!" "You were important." "You overestimate my role." "No." "You were 2nd to the Commissioner of the Warsaw "Jewish district"." "But I had no power." "It was something." "You were part of the vast German power structure." "Correct." "But a small part." "You overestimate the authority of a deputy of 28 then." " You were 30." " 28." "At 30, you were... you were mature." "Yes, but for a lawyer who got his degree at 27, it's just a beginning." "You had a doctorate." "The title proves nothing." "Did Auerswald have one too?" "No." "But the title's irrelevant." "Doctor of Law..." "What did you do after the war?" "I was with a mountaineering publishing house." "That so?" "I wrote and published mountain guide books." "I published a climbers' magazine." "Is climbing your main interest?" "Yes." "The mountains, the air..." "Yes." "The sun, the pure air..." "Not like the ghetto air." "N EW YORK." "GERTRU DE SC H N EIDER and her mother." "LOHAME HAGHETTAOT KIBBUTZ MUSEUM." "Ghetto fighters' Kibbutz" " ISRAEL." "The Jewish Combat Organization J.C.O. In the Warsaw ghetto was officially formed on July 28, 1942." "After the first mass deportation to Treblinka, which was interrupted on Sept. 30, some 60,000 Jews remained in the ghetto." "On January 18, 1943, the deportations were resumed." "Despite a severe lack of weapons, the members of the J.C.O. Called for resistance, and started fighting, to the Germans' total surprise." "It lasted 3 days." "The Nazis withdrew with losses, abandoning weapons the Jews grabbed." "The deportations were stopped." "The Germans now knew they had to fight to conquer the ghetto." "The battle began on the evening of April 19, 1943, the eve of Pessach Passover." "It had to be a fight to as the death." "SIMHA ROTTEM, know as "Kajik"." "ITZHAK ZUCKERMANN, know as "Antek", 2nd in command of the J.C.O." "I began drinking after the war." "It was very difficult." "Claude, you asked for my impression." "If you could lick my heart, it would poison you." "At the request of Mordechai Anielewicz, commander-in-chief of the J.C.O.," "Antek had left the ghetto 6 days before the German attack." "His mission:" "To ask Polish Resistance leaders to arm the Jews." "They refused." "I don't think the human tongue can describe the horror we went through in the ghetto." "In the streets, if you can call them that, for nothing was left of the streets, we had to step over heaps of corpses." "There was no room to pass beside them." "Besides fighting the Germans we fought hunger and thirst." "We had no contact with the outside world, we were completely isolated, cut off from the world." "We were in such a state that we could no longer understand the very meaning of why we went on fighting." "We thought of attempting a break-out to the Aryan part of Warsaw, outside the ghetto." "Just before May I," "Sigmund and I were sent to try to contact Antek in Aryan Warsaw." "We found a tunnel under Bonifratrska Street that led out into Aryan Warsaw." "Early in the morning, we suddenly emerged into a street in broad daylight." "Imagine us on that sunny May 1, stunned to find ourselves in the street, among normal people." "We'd come from another planet." "People immediately jumped on us because we certainly looked exhausted, skinny, in rags." "Around the ghetto, there were always suspicious Poles who grabbed Jews." "By a miracle, we escaped them." "In Aryan Warsaw, life went on as naturally and normally as before." "The cafés operated normally, the restaurants, buses, streetcars..." "The movies were open." "The ghetto was an isolated island amid normal life." "Our job was to contact ltzhak Zuckermann to try to mount a rescue operation, to try to save the few fighters who might still be alive in the ghetto." "We managed to contact Zuckermann." "We found two sewer workers." "On the night of May 8-9, we decided to return to the ghetto with another buddy, Riszek, and the 2 sewers." "After the curfew, we entered the sewers." "We were entirely at the mercy of the two workmen, since only they knew the ghetto's underground layout." "Halfway there, they decided to turn back, they tried to drop us, and we had to threaten them with our guns." "We went on through the sewers," "until one of the workmen told us we were under the ghetto." "Riszek guarded them so they couldn't escape." "MILA 18." "J.C. O bunker headquarters" "I raised the manhole cover to go up into the ghetto." "At bunker Mila 18, I missed them by a day." "I had returned the night of May 8-9." "The Germans found the bunker on the morning of the 8th." "WARS AW the monument to the ghetto fighters" "Most of its survivors committed suicide, or succumbed to gas in the bunkers." "The replica of the monument to the ghetto fighters" "I went to bunker Francziskanska 22." "There was no answer when I yelled the password, so I had to go on through the ghetto." "I suddenly heard a woman calling from the ruins." "It was darkest night, no lights, you saw nothing." "All the houses were in ruins and I heard only one voice." "I thought some evil spell had been cast on me, a woman's voice talking from the rubble." "I circled the ruins." "I didn't look at my watch, but I must have spent a half-hour exploring, trying to find the woman whose voice guided me, but, unfortunately, I didn't find her." "Were there fires?" "Strictly speaking, no, for the flames had died down, but there was still smoke, and that awful smell of charred flesh of people who had surely been burned alive." "I continued on my way, going to other bunkers in search of fighting units, but it was the same everywhere." "I'd give the password:" ""Jan"." "That's a Polish first name, Jan." "Right." "And I got no answer." "I went from bunker to bunker and after walking for hours in the ghetto," "I went back toward the sewers." "Was he alone then?" "Yes, I was alone all the time." "Except for that woman's voice, and a man I met as I came out of the sewers," "I was alone throughout my tour of the ghetto." "I didn't meet a living soul." "At one point, I recall feeling a kind of peace, of serenity, when I said to myself, "I'm the last Jew." ""I'll wait for morning and for the Germans."" "Making this film was a long and difficult battle." "I could not have waged it without the support and the faith of a number of men and women, some of whom are now gone." "This film is theirs as well." "I thank the members of my crew, those men and women who took part in the campaigns of research, reporting, filming." "Especially Irène Steinfeldt-Lévi and Corinne Coulmas, who seconded me, even" "My gratitude also goes to Yehuda Bauer, Professor of Contemporary Jewish History at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, and Raül Hilberg, Professor of Political Science at the University of Vermont in Burlington (U.S.A.)" "The story begins in the present at Chelmno, on the Narew River, in Poland." "Fifty miles northwest of Lodz, in the heart of a region that once had a large Jewish population," "At Chelmno 400000 Jews were murdered in two separate periods:" "December 1941 – spring 1943:" "June 1944 – January 1945." "But the way in which death was administrated" "Of the 400000 men, women and children who went there, only two came out alive:" "Mordechai Podchlebnik and Simon Srebnik." "Srebnik, a survivor of the last period, was a boy of thirteen when he was sent" "His father had been killed before his eyes in the ghetto in Lodz; his mother died in a gas van in Chelmno." "The SS placed him in one of the " Jewish work details ", assigned to maintaining the extermination camps" "With the ankles in chain, like all his companions, the boy shuffled through the village of Chelmno each day." "That he was kept alive longer than the others, he owed to his extreme agility, which made him the winner of jumping contests" "And, also, to his melodious voice:" "Several times a week, when the rabbits kept in hutches by the SS needed fodder., young Srebnik rowed up the Narew, Chelmno's river, under guard," "Everyone In Chelmno knew him." "The Polish farm folk and German civilian as well, since this Polish province was annexed to the Reich after the fall of Warsaw, Germanized and renamed Wartheland." "Chelmno was changed to Kulmhof," "During the night of January 18, 1945, two days before Soviet troops arrived, the Nazis killed all the remaining Jews in the " work details " with a bullet in the head." "Simon Srebnik was among those executed." "A polish farmer found him there." "The boy was treated and healed by a Soviet Army doctor." "A few months later Simon left for Tel Aviv along with other survivors of the death camps." ""A little white house..."" ""Lingers in my memory..."" ""Of that little white house..."" ""I dream each night..."" "He was 131l2 years old." "He had a lovely singing voice and we heard him." "When I heard him again, my heart beat faster, because what happened here... was a murder." "I really re-lived what happened." "It's hard to recognize, but it was here." "They burned people here." "A lot of people were burnt here." "Yes, this is the place." "No one ever left here again." "The gas vans came in here..." "There were two huge ovens," "and afterward, the bodies were thrown into these ovens, and the flames reached to the sky." "To the sky?" "Yes." "It was terrible." "No one can describe it." "No one can recreate what happened here." "Impossible!" "And no one can understand it." "Even I, here, now," "I can't believe I'm here." "No, I just can't believe it." "It was always this peaceful here." "Always." "When they burnt 2,000 people" " Jews... every day, it was just as peaceful." "No one shouted." "Everyone went about his work." "It was silent." "Peaceful." "Just as it is now." ""You, girl, don't you cry."" ""Don't be so sad."" ""For the dear summer is nearing..."" ""and I'll return with it."" ""A mug of red wine, a slice of roast,"" ""that's what the girls give their soldiers."" ""When the soldiers march along,"" ""the girls open their doors and windows."" "They bought the Germans made him sing on the river." "He was a toy to amuse them." "He had to do it." "He sang, but his heart wept." "Do "their" hearts weep thinking about that now?" "Certainly, very much so." "They still talk about it around the family table." "It was public, so everyone knew of it." "He said that was true German irony," "people were being killed, and he had to sing." "That's what I thought." "What died in him in Chelmo?" "Everything died." "But he's only human, and he wants to live." "So he must forget." "The other survivor:" "MORDECHAI PODCHLEBNIK" "He thanks God for what remain and that he can forget." "And let's not talk about that." "Does he think it's good to talk about it?" "For me it's not good." "Then why is he talking about it?" "Because you're insisting on it." "He was sent books on the Eichmann trial, where he was and he didn't even read them." "He survived, but is he really alive, or?" "At the time, he felt as if he were dead, because he never thought he'd survive, but... he's alive." "Why does he smile all the time?" "What do you want him to do... cry?" "Sometimes you smile, sometimes you cry." "And if you're alive, it's better to smile." "Why was she so curious about this story?" "HANNA SAIDL" " ISRAEL " "Daughter of MOTKE SAIDL, survivor of VILNA (LITHUANIA)" "It's a long story." "As a child, I had little contact with my father." "He went out to work and I didn't see much of him." "Besides, he was a silent man he didn't talk to me." "And when I grew up and was strong enough to face him," "I questioned him." "I never stopped questioning him, until I got at the scraps of truth he couldn't tell me." "It came out haltingly." "I had to tear the details out of him, and finally, when Mr. Lanzmann came," "I heard the whole story for the second time." "The place resembles Ponari:" "The forest, the ditches." "It's as if the bodies has been burned here." "Except there were no stones in Ponari." "PONARI:" "Forest where most of the Vilna Jews were massacred." "But the Lithuanian forests are denser than the Israeli Forest, no?" "Of course." "The trees are similar, but taller and fuller in Lithuania." "Is there still hunting here in Sobibor forest?" "Yes, there are lots of animals of all kinds." "Was there hunting then?" "Only manhunting." "JAN PIWONSKI" "Some victims tried to escape." "But they didn't know the area." "At times people heard explosions in the minefield, sometimes they'd find a deer and sometimes a poor Jew who tried to escape." "That's the charm of our forests:" "Silence and beauty." "But it wasn't always so silent here." "There was a time when it was full of screams and gunshots," "of dogs' barking," "and that period especially" ". is engraved on the minds of the people who lived here then." "After the revolt, the Germans decided to liquidate the camp and early in the winter of 1943, they planted pines that were three or four years old, to camouflage all the traces." "That screen of trees?" "Yes." "That's where the mass graves were?" "When he first came here in 1944, you couldn't guess what had happened here, that these trees hidden the secret of a death camp." "How did he react, the first time he unloads corpses, when the gas van doors were opened?" "What could he do?" "He cried." "The 3rd day, he saw his wife and children." "He placed his wife in the graves and asked to be killed." "The Germans said he was strong enough to work, that he wouldn't be killed yet." "Was the weather very cold?" "It was in the winter of 1942, in early January." "At that time, the bodies weren't burned, just buried?" "No, they were buried and each row was covered with dirt." "They weren't being burned yet." "There were around four or five layers." "The ditches were funnel-shaped." "They dumped the bodies in theses ditches and they had to lay them out like herrings, head to foot." "So it was they who dug up and burned all the Jews of Vilna?" "Yes." "In early Jan. 1944, we began digging up the bodies." "When the last mass grave opened," "I recognized my whole family." "Who in his family did he recognize?" "Mom and my sisters." "3 sisters with their kids." "They were all in there." "How could he recognize them?" "YITZHAK DUGIN:" "Survivor of VILNA" "They'd been in the earth 4 months and it was winter." "They were very well preserved." "I recognized their faces, their clothes too." "They'd been killed relatively recently?" "And it was the last grave?" "The Nazi plan was for them to open the graves starting with the oldest?" "The last graves were the newest and we started with the oldest those of the first ghetto." "In the first grave there were 24,000 bodies." "The deeper you dug, the flatter the bodies were." "Each was almost a flat slab." "When you tried to grasp a body, it crumbled, it was impossible to pick up them." "We had to open the graves, but without tools." "They said: "Get used to working with your hands"." "With just their hands?" "When we first opened the graves, we couldn't help it, we all burst out sobbing." "But the Germans almost beat us to death." "We had to work at a killing pace for two days, beaten all the time, and with no tools." "They all burst out sobbing?" "The Germans even forbade us to use the words "corpse" or "victim"." "The dead were blocks of wood, shit, with absolutely no importance..." "Anyone who said "corpse" or "victim" was beaten." "The Germans made us refer to the bodies as "Figuren", that is as puppets, as dolls," "or as "Schmattes", which means "rags"." "Were they told at the start how many "Figuren" there were in all the graves?" "The head of the Vilna Gestapo told us:" ""There are 90,000 people lying there," ""and absolutely no trace must be left of them."" "It was at the end of November 1942." "They chased us away from our work, and back to our barracks." "Suddenly, from the part of the camp called" "the death camp," "flames shot up." "Very high." "In a flash, the whole countryside, the whole camp seemed ablaze." "It was already dark." "We went into our barracks, and ate..." "And from the window, we kept on watching the fantastic backdrop of flames of every imaginable color," "red, yellow, green, purple." "And suddenly one of us stood up." "We knew he'd been an opera singer in Warsaw." "His name was Salve, and... facing that curtain of fire, he began" "chanting a song" "I didn't know:" ""My God, my God," ""why hast Thou forsaken us?" "RICHARD GLAZAR - BASEL (SWITZERLAND)" ""We have been thrust into the fire before," ""but we have never denied Thy Holy Law."" "He sang in Yiddish, while, behind him, blazed the pyres" "on which they had begun then, in November 1942, to burn the bodies in Treblinka." "That was the first time it happened." "We knew that night that the dead would no longer be buried," "they'd be burned." "TREBLINKA" "When things were ready, they poured on fuel, and touched off the fire." "They waited for a high wind." "The pyres usually burned for 7 or 8 days." "There was a concrete platform some distance away, and the bones that hadn't burned, the big bones of the feet, for example, we took..." "There was a chest with two handles, we carried the bones there, where others had to crush them." "It was very fine, that powdered bone." "Then it was put into sacks and when there were enough sacks, we went to a bridge on the Narew river, and dumped the powder." "The current carried it off." "It drifted downstream." "PAULA BIREN" " CINCINNATI U.S.A. Survivor of AUSCHWITZ" "The Jewish cemetery is LODZ today" "AUSCHWITZ:" "The town" "Mrs. Pietryra, you live in Auschwitz?" "Yes, I was born here." "And you've never left Auschwitz?" "No, never." "Were there Jews in Auschwitz before the war?" "They made up 80% of the population." "They even had a synagogue here." "Just one?" "Just one, I think." "Does it still exist?" "No, it was wrecked." "There's something else there now." "Was there a Jewish cemetery in Auschwitz?" "It still exists." "It's closed now." "It still exists?" "Yes." "Closed?" "What does that mean?" "The don't bury there now." "Was there a synagogue in Wlodawa?" "Yes, and it's very beautiful." "When Poland was ruled by the czars, that synagogue already existed." "It's even older than Catholic church." "It's no longer used." "There's no one to go to it." "These buildings haven't changed?" "Not at all." "There were barrels of herrings here, and the Jews sold fish." "There were stalls, small shops," "Jewish business, as the gentleman says." "That's Barenholz's house." "He sold wood." "Lipschitz's store was there." "He sold cloth." "This was Lichtenstein's." "What was there, opposite?" "A food store." "A Jewish store?" "There was a notions shop here, it sold thread, needles, odds and ends," "and there were also three barbers." "PAN FILIPWICZ" " Was that fine house Jewish?" " It's Jewish." "And this small one?" "Also." "And the one behind it?" "These were all Jewish." "This one on the left, too?" "That one too." "Who lived in it?" "Borenstein?" "He was in the cement business." "He was very handsome, and cultivated." "Here there was a blacksmith named Tepper." "It was a Jewish house." "A shoemaker lived here." "What was his name?" "Yankel?" "Yes." "You get the feeling Wlodawa was a Jewish city." "Yes, because it's true." "The Poles lived farther out the center was wholly Jewish" "What happened to the Jews of Auschwitz?" "They were expelled and resettled, but I don't know where." "What year was that?" "It began in 1940, which was when I moved here." "This apartment also belonged to Jews." "According to our information, the Auschwitz Jews were "resettled", as they say, nearby, in Benzin and Sosnowiecze, in Upper Silesi." "Yes, because those were Jewish towns." "Does she know what happened to the Jews of Auschwitz?" "I think they all ended up in the camp." "That is, they returned to Auschwitz?" "AUSCHWITZ" " BIRKENAU" "All kinds of people from everywhere were sent here." "All the Jews came here..." "to die." "What's they think when Wlodawa's Jews were all deported to Sobibor?" "WLODAWA" " Sobibor: 10 miles" "What could we think?" "That it was the end of them, but they had foreseen that." "How so?" "Even before the war, when you talked to the Jews, they foresaw their doom, he doesn't know how." "Even before the war they had a premonition." "How were they taken to Sobibor?" "On foot?" "It was frightful." "He watched it himself." "They were herded on foot to a station called Orkrobek." "There they put the old people first into waiting cattle cars," "then the younger Jews," "and finally the kids." "That was the worst:" "They threw them on top of the others." "Were there a lot of Jews in Kolo?" "A great many." "More Jews than Poles." "And what happened with the Kolo Jews?" "Was he an eye-witness?" "PAN FALBORSKI" "Yes." "It was frightful." "Frightful to see." "Even the Germans hid, they couldn't see that." "When the Jews were herded to the station, they were beaten, some were even killed." "A cart followed the convoy to pick up the corpses." "Those who couldn't walk, the slain?" "Yes, those who'd fallen." "Where did this happen?" "The Jews were collected in the Kolo synagogue." "Then they were herded to the station, where the narrow-gauge railroad went to Chelmno." "It happened to all the Jews in the area, not just in Kolo." "Absolutely." "Everywhere." "Jews were also murdered in the forests near Kalisz, not far from here." "ABRAHAM BOMBA, survivor of TREBLINKA" " TEL-AVIV" "TREBLINKA by road" "He was born here in 1923, and has been here even since." "He lived at this very spot?" "Right here." "Then he had a front-row seat for what happened." "Naturally." "You could go up close or watch from a distance." "CZESLAW BOROWI" "They had land on the far side of the station." "To work it, he had to cross the track, so he could see everything." "Does he remember the first convoy of Jews from Warsaw on July 22, 1942?" "Yes." "He recalls the first convoy very well, and when all those Jews were brought here," "people wondered, "what's to be done with them?"" "Clearly, they'd be killed, but no one yet knew how." "When people began to understand what was happening they were appalled, and they commented privately that since the world began, no one had ever murdered so many people that way." "While all this was happening before their eyes, normal life went on?" "They worked their fields?" "Certainly they worked, but not as willingly as usual." "They had to work, but when they saw all this, they bought, what if our house is surrounded and we're arrested." "Were they afraid for the Jews, too?" "Well, he says, it's this way:" "If I cut my finger, it doesn't hurt him." "They saw that happened to the Jews:" "The convoy came in and then went to the camp, and the people vanished." "He had a field under 100 yards from the camp." "He also worked during the German occupation." "He worked his field?" "Yes." "He saw how they were asphyxiated, he heard them scream, he saw that." "There's a small hill:" "He could see quite a bit." "What did he say?" "They couldn't stop and watch." "It was forbidden." "The Ukrainians shot at them." "But they could work a field 100 yards from the camp?" "They could." "So occasionally he could steal a glance, if the Ukrainians weren't looking." "He worked with his eyes lowered?" "Yes." "He worked by the barbed wire and heard awful screams." "His field was there?" "Yes, right up close." "It wasn't forbidden to work there." "So he worked, he farmed there?" "Yes." "Where the camp is now, was partly his field." "It was off limits, but they heard everything." "It didn't bother him to work so near those screams?" "At first is was unbearable." "Then you got used to it." "You get used to anything?" "Yes." "Now he thinks... impossible." "Yet it was true." "So he was the convoys arriving." "There were 60 to 80 cars in each convoy and there were two locomotives" ". that took the convoys into the camp, taking 20 cars at a time." "And the cars came back empty?" "Yes." "Does he remember?" "Here's how it happened:" "The locomotive picked up 20 cars and took them to the camp" "That took maybe an hour," "and the empty cars came back here." "Then the next 20 cars were taken, and meanwhile, the people in the first 20 were already dead." "They waited, they wept, they asked for water, they died." "Sometimes they were naked in the cars, up to 170 people." "This is where they gave the Jews water, he says." "Where was that?" "Here." "When the convoys arrived, they gave water to" "Who gave the Jews water?" "We did, the Poles." "There was a tiny well, we took a bottle and..." "Wasn't it dangerous to give them water?" "Very dangerous." "You could be killed for giving a glass of water." "But we gave them water anyway." "Is it very cold here in winter?" "It depends." "It can get to minus 15, minus 20." "Which was harder on the Jews, summer or winter?" "Waiting here, I mean." "He thinks winter, because they were very cold." "They were so packed in the cars, maybe they weren't cold." "In summer they stifled:" "It was very hot." "The Jews were very thirsty." "They tried to get out." "Were there corpses in the cars on arrival?" "Obviously." "They were so packed in that even those still alive sat on corpses for lack of space." "Didn't people here who went by the trains look through the cracks in the cars?" "Yes, they could look in sometimes as they went by." "When they were allowed, they gave them water, too." "How did the Jews try to get out?" "The doors weren't opened." "How'd they get out?" "Through the windows." "They removed the barbed wire and came out of the windows." "They jumped, of course." "Sometimes they just deliberately sat down on the ground, and the guards came and shot them in the head." "They jumped from the cars..." "What a sight!" "Jumping from the windows." "There was a mother and child." " Jewish?" " Yes." "She tried to run away and they shot her in the heart." "Shot who... the mother?" "Yes, the mother." "This gentleman has lived here a long time, he can't forget." "He says that now he can't understand how a man can do that to another human being." "It's inconceivable, beyond understanding." "Once when the Jews asked for water, a Ukrainian went by, and forbade giving any." "The Jewish woman had asked for water... threw her pot at his head." "The Ukrainian moved back, maybe ten yards, and opened fire on the car." "Blood and brains were all over the place." "Lots of people opened the doors, or escaped through the windows." "Sometimes the Ukrainians fired through the car walls." "It happened chiefly at night." "When the Jews talked to each other, as he showed us, the Ukrainians wanted things quiet, and they asked... yes, asked them to shut up." "So the Jews shut up and the guard moved off." "Then the Jews started talking again, in their language, as he says, ra-ra-ra, and so on." "What's he mean, la-la-la, what's he trying to imitate?" "Their language." "No, ask him:" "Was the Jews' noise something special?" "They spoke Jew." "Does Mr. Borowi understand "Jew"?" "No." "Did he hear screams behind his locomotive?" "Obviously, since the locomotive was next to the camp." "They screamed, asked for water." "The screams from the cars closest to the locomotive could be heard very well." "Can one get used to that?" " No. " "It was extremely distressing to him." "He knew that the people behind him where human, like him." "The Germans gave him and the other workers vodka to drink." "Without drinking, they couldn't have done it." "There was a bonus" "that they were paid not in money, but in liquor." "Those who worked on other trains didn't get this bonus." "HENRIK GAWKOWSKY" "He drank every drop he got because without liquor he couldn't stand the stench when he got here." "They even bought more liquor on their own, to get drunk on." "From the station to the unloading ramp in the camp, how many miles?" "Four." "ABRAHAM BOMBA" "We traveled for two days." "On the morning of the second day we saw that we had left Czechoslovakia and were heading east." "It wasn't the SS guarding us, but the Schutzpolizei, the police, in green uniforms." "We were in ordinary passenger cars." "All the seats were filled." "You couldn't choose." "There were all numbered and assigned." "In my compartment there was an elderly couple." "I still remember:" "The good man was always hungry and his wife scolded him, saying they'd have no food left for the future." "RICHARD GLAZAR" "Then, on the second day," "I saw a sign for Malkinia." "We went on a little farther." "Then, very slowly, the train turned off of the main track, and rolled at a walking pace through a wood." "While he looked out, we'd been able to open a window." "The old man in our compartment saw a boy..." "Cows were grazing..." "And he asked the boy in signs," ""Where are we?"" "And the kid made a funny gesture." "This!" "Across the throat." "A Pole?" "A Pole." "Where was this?" "At the station?" "It was where the train had stopped." "On one side was the wood, and on the other were fields." "And there was a farmer in a field?" "We saw cows watched over by a young man," "a farmhand." "And one of you questioned him?" "Not in words, but in signs, we asked," ""What's going on here?"" "And he made that gesture." "Like this." "We didn't really pay much attention to him." "We couldn't figure out what he meant." "Once there were foreign Jews... they were this fat..." "This fat?" "Riding in passenger cars." "There was a dining car, they could drink, and walk around, too." "They said they were going to a factory." "On arrival they saw kind of a factory it was." "We'd gesture..." "Gesture how?" "That they'd be killed." "These people made that sign?" "He says the Jews didn't believe it." "But what does that gesture mean?" "That death awaited them." "The people who had a chance to get near the Jews did that to warn them..." "He did it too?" "That they'd be hanged, killed, slain." "Yes." "Even foreign Jews from Belgium, Czechoslovakia, from France too, surely." "And from Holland..." "These didn't know," "but the Polish Jews knew." "In the small cities in the area, it was talked about." "So the Polish Jews were forewarned, but not the others." "Who'd they warn, Polish Jews or the others?" "All the Jews." "He says the foreign Jews arrived here in passenger they were well dressed, in white shirts, there were flowers in the cars, and they played cards." "From what I know, that was very rare," "Jews shipped in passenger cars." "Most arrived in cattle cars." "It's not true." "It's not true?" "What did Mrs. Gawkowska say?" "She said he may not have seen everything." "He says he did." "Once, at the Malkinia station, for example, a foreign Jew left the train to buy something at the bar." "The train pulled out and he ran after it..." "To catch up to it." "So he went past these "pullmans", as he calls them those Jews who were calm, unsuspecting, and he made that gesture to them." "To all the Jews, in principle." "He just went along the platform!" "Ask him!" "Yes." "The road was as it is now." "When the guard wasn't looking, he made that gesture." "Ask Mr. Gawkowski why he looks so sad." "Because I saw men marching to their death." "Precisely where are we now?" "It's not far... a mile and a half from here." "What, the camp?" "What's that dirt road he's indicating?" "That's where the rail line into the camp was." "Did Mr. Gawkowski, aside from the trains of deportees he drove from Warsaw or Bialystok to the Treblinka station..." "Did he ever drive the deportee cars into the camp from the Treblinka station?" "Did he do it often?" "Two or three times a week." "Over how long a period?" "Around a year and a half." "That is, throughout the camp's existence?" "This is the ramp." "Here he is, he goes to the end with his locomotive, and he has the 20 cars behind him." "No, they're in front of him." "He pushed them?" "That's right, he pushed them." "In February 1942, I began working here as an assistant switchman." "The station building, the rails, the platforms are just as they were in 1942?" "Nothing's changed?" "Nothing." "Exactly where did the camp begin?" "JAN PIWONSKY" "I'll show you exactly." "Here," "there was a fence that ran to those trees you see there." "And another fence, that ran to those trees over there." "So I'm standing inside the camp perimeter, right?" "That's right." "Where I am now is 50 feet from the station, and I'm already outside the camp." "Yes." "So this is the Polish part, and over there was death." "Yes." "On German orders, Polish railmen split up the trains." "So the locomotive took 20 cars, and headed toward Chelm." "When it reached a switch, it pushed the cars into the camp on the other track we can see." "The ramp began there." "So here we're outside the camp, and back here we enter it." "Unlike Treblinka, the station here is part of the camp." "And at this point we are inside the camp." "This track was inside the camp." "And it's exactly as it was?" "Yes, the same track." "It hasn't changed since then." "Where we are now is what was called the ramp, right?" "Yes, those to be exterminated were unloaded." "So where we're standing is where 250,000 Jews were unloaded before being gassed." "Yes." "Did foreign Jews arrive here in passenger cars, too?" "Not always." "Often the richest Jews, from Belgium, Holland, France," "arrived in passenger cars, sometimes even in 1st class." "They were usually better treated by the guards." "Especially the convoys of Western European Jews waiting their turn here," "Polish railmen saw the women making up, combing their hair wholly unaware of what awaited them minutes later." "They dolled up." "And the Poles couldn't tell them anything:" "The guards forbad contact with the future victims." "I suppose were there fine days like today." "Unfortunately, some were even finer." "RUDOLF VRBA, survivor of AUSCHWITZ" " NEW YORK" "AUSCHWITZ" " BIRKENAU" "And suddenly it started:" "The yelling and screaming." ""All out, everybody out!"" "All those shouts, the uproar, the tumult!" ""Out!" "Get out!" ""Leave the baggage!"" "We got out stepping on each other." "We saw men wearing blue armbands." "Some carried whips." "We saw some SS men." "Green uniforms," "black uniforms..." "We were a mass, and the mass swept us along." "It was irresistible." "It had to move to another place." "I saw the others undressing." "And I hear: "get undressed!" "You're to be disinfected!"" "As I waited, already naked," "I noticed the" "SS men separating out some people." "These were told to get dressed." "A passing SS man suddenly stopped in front of me, looked me over, and said:" ""Yes, you too, quick, join the others, get dressed." ""You're going to work here, and if you're good," ""You can be a kapo..." "a squad leader."" "BIRKENAU:" "The ramp" "We were taken to a barracks." "The whole place stank." "Piled about five feet high in a jumbled mass, where all the things people could conceivably have brought." "Clothes, suitcases, everything stacked in a solid mass." "On top of it, jumping around like demons." "People were making bundles, and carrying them outside." "I was turned over to one of these men." "His armband said, "Squad Leader"." "He shouted, and I understood that I was also to pick up clothing, bundle it," "and take it somewhere." "As I worked, I asked him:" ""What's going on?" "The undressed ones..." "Where are they?" "And he replied:" ""Dead!" "All dead!"" "But it still hadn't sunk in, I didn't believe it." "He'd used the Yiddish word." "It was the first time I'd heard Yiddish spoken." "He didn't say it very loud, and I saw he had tears in his eyes." "Suddenly he started shouting, and raised his whip." "Out of the corner of my eyes, I saw an SS man coming." "And I understood that I was to ask no more questions, but just to rush outside with the package." "All I could think of then was my friend Carel Unger." "He'd been at the rear of the train, in a section that had been uncoupled and left outside." "I needed someone." "Near me." "With me." "Then I saw him." "He was in the 2nd group." "He'd been spared too." "On the way, somehow, he had learned, he already knew." "He looked at me, all he said was: "Richard, my father, mother, brother..." "He had learned on the way there." "Your meeting with Carel:" "How long after your arrival did it happen?" "It was... around 20 minutes after we reached Treblinka." "Then I left the barracks, and had my first look at the vast space" "that I soon learned was called" ""the sorting place"." "It was buried under mountain of objects of all kinds." "Mountains of shoes, of clothes, 30 feet high." "I thought about it and said to Carel:" ""It's a hurricane, a raging sea." ""We're shipwrecked." "And we're still alive." ""We must do nothing" ""but watch for every new wave," ""float on it," ""get ready for the next wave," ""and ride the wave at all costs." "And nothing else."" "Greenery, sand everywhere else." "At night, we were put into a barracks." "It just had a sand floor." "Nothing else." "Each of us simply dropped where he stood." "Half-asleep, I heard some men hang themselves." "We didn't react then." "It was almost normal." "Just as it was normal that for everyone behind whom the gate of Treblinka closed, there was death, had to be death, for no one was supposed to be left to bear witness." "I already knew that, three hours after arriving at Treblinka." "BERLIN" "INGE DEUTSCHKRON." "Born in BERLIN" "Lived there throughout the war." "(in hiding beginning in February 1943)" "Now lives in ISRAEL" "FRANZ SUCHOMEL:" "SS unterscharfuhrer" "Are you ready?" " Yes." " Then we can..." "We can begin." "How's your heart?" "Is everything in order?" "Oh, my heart..." "For the moment, it's all right." "If I have any pain, I'll tell you." "We'll have to break off." "Of course." "But your health, in general, is..." "The weather today suits me fine." "The barometric pressure is high:" "That's good for me." "You look to be in good shape, anyway." "Let's begin with Treblinka." "Certainly." "I think that's best." "If you could give us" "a description of Treblinka." "How did it look when you arrived?" "I believe you got there in August?" "Was it August 20 or 24?" "The 18th?" "I don't know exactly." "Around August 20." "I arrived there with seven other men." "From Berlin?" "From Berlin." "From Lublin?" "From Berlin to Warsaw, from Warsaw to Lublin, from Lublin back to Warsaw and from Warsaw to Treblinka." "What was Treblinka like then?" "Treblinka then was operating at full capacity." "Full capacity?" "Full capacity!" "Trains arrived..." "The Warsaw ghetto was being emptied then." "Three trains arrived in two days, each with three, four, five thousand people aboard," "all from Warsaw." "But at the same time, other trains came in from Kielce and other places." "So three trains arrived, and since the offensive against Stalingrad was in fear, the trainloads of Jews were left on a station siding." "What's more, the cars were French, made of steel." "So that while 5,000 Jews arrived in Treblinka, 3,000 were dead." "In the..." "In the cars." "They had slashed their wrists, or just died." "The ones we unloaded were half-dead and half-mad." "In the other trains from Kielce" "and elsewhere, at least half were dead." "We stacked them here, here, here and here." "Thousands of people piled one on top of another." "On the ramp?" "On the ramp." "Stacked like wood." "In addition, other Jews, still alive, waited there for two days:" "The small gas-chambers could no longer handle the number." "They functioned day and night in that period." "Can you please describe, very precisely, your first impression of Treblinka?" "Very precisely." "It's very important." "My first impression of Treblinka, and that of some of the other men, was catastrophic." "For we had not been told how and what... that people were being killed there." "That they hadn't told us." "You didn't know?" "No!" "Incredible!" "But true." "I didn't want to go." "That was proved at my trial." "I was told:" ""Mr. Suchomel, there are big workshops there" ""for tailors and shoemakers," ""and you'll be guarding them."" "But you knew it was a camp?" "Yes." "We were told:" ""The Fuhrer ordered a resettlement program." ""It's an order from the Fuhrer."" "Understand?" "Resettlement program..." "No one ever spoke of killing." "I understand." "Mr. Suchomel, we're not discussing you, only Treblinka." "You are a very important eye-witness, and you can explain what Treblinka was." "But don't use my name." "No, I promised." "All right, you've arrived at Treblinka." "So Stadie, the sarge, showed us the camp" "from end to end." "Just as we went by, they were opening the gas-chamber doors, and people fell out like potatoes." "Naturally, that horrified and appalled us." "We went back and sat down on our suitcases and cried like old women." "Each day, 100 Jews were chosen to drag the corpses to the mass graves." "In the evening, the Ukrainians drove those Jews into the gas-chambers or shot them." "Every day!" "It was in the hottest days of August." "The ground undulated likes waves because of the gas." "From the bodies?" "Bear in mind, the graves were maybe 18, 20 feet deep, all crammed with bodies!" "A thin layer of sand and the heat." "You see?" "It was a hell up there." "You saw that?" "Yes, just once, the first day." "We puked and wept." "You wept?" "We wept too, yes." "The smell was infernal." "Yes, because gas was constantly escaping." "It stank horribly, for miles around." "Miles?" "Miles!" "You could smell it all around, not just in the camp?" "Everywhere." "It depended on the wind." "The stink was carried on the wind." "Understand?" "More people kept coming, always more, whom we hadn't the facilities to kill." "Those gents were in a rush to clean out the Warsaw ghetto." "The gas-chambers couldn't handle the load." "The small gas-chambers." "The Jews had to wait their turn for a day, 2 days, 3 days." "They foresaw what was coming." "They foresaw it." "They may not have been certain, but many knew." "There were Jewish women who slashed their daughters' wrists at night, then cut their own." "Others poisoned themselves." "They heard the engine feeding the gas-chamber." "A tank engine was used in that gas-chamber." "At Treblinka the only gas used was engine exhaust." "Zyklon gas, that was Auschwitz." "Because of the delay," "Eberl, the camp commandant, phoned Lublin and said:" ""We can't go on this way." "I can't do it any longer." ""We have to break off."" "Overnight, Wirth arrived." "He inspected everything and then left." "He returned with people from Belzec, experts." "Wirth arranged to suspend the trains." "The corpses lying there were cleared away." "That was the period of the old gas-chambers." "Because there were so many dead that couldn't be gotten rid off," "the bodies piled up around the gas-chambers and stayed there for days." "Under this pile of bodies was a cesspool:" "3 inches deep, full of blood, worms... and shit." "No one wanted to clean it out." "The Jews preferred to be shot rather than work there." "Preferred to be shot?" "It was awful." "Burying their own people, seeing it all..." "The dead flesh came off in their hands." "So Wirth went there himself with a few Germans" "and had long belts rigged up that were wrapped around the dead torsos to pull them..." "Who did that?" "SS men." "Wirth?" "SS men and Jews." "SS men and Jews!" "Jews too?" "Jews too!" "What did the Germans do?" "They forced the Jews to..." "They beat them?" "Or they themselves helped with the clean-up." "Which Germans did that?" "Some of our guards who were assigned up there." "The Germans themselves?" "They had to." "They were in command!" "They were in command, but they were also commanded." "I think the Jews did it." "In that case, the Germans had to lend a hand." "The black execution wall in the courtyard of block II at AUSCHWITZ I, the original camp" "Filip, on that Sunday in May 1942, when you first entered the Auschwitz crematorium, how old were you?" "Twenty." "It was a Sunday in May." "It was a Sunday in May." "We were locked in an underground cell in Block 11" "We were held in secret." "Then some SS men appeared and marched us along a street in the camp." "We went through a gate," "and around 300 feet away," "300 feet from the gate," "I suddenly saw a building." "It had a flat roof, and a smokestack." "I saw a door in the rear." "I thought they were taking us to be shot." "FILIP MULLER:" "Survivor of the 5 liquidations of the AUSCHWITZ "special detail"." "Suddenly, before a door under a lamp in the middle of this building." "A young SS man told us:" ""Inside, filthy swine!"" "We entered a corridor." "They drove us along it." "Right away, the stench, the smoke choked me." "They kept on chasing us and then I made out the shapes" "of the first two ovens." "Between the ovens, some Jewish prisoners were working." "We were in the crematorium's incineration chamber in Camp I at Auschwitz." "From there, they herded us to another big room," "and told us to undress the corpses." "I looked around me." "There were hundreds of bodies, all dressed." "Piled with the corpses were suitcases, bundles" "and, scattered everywhere, strange, bluish-purple crystals." "I couldn't understand any of it." "It was like a blow on the head... as if you'd been stunned." "I didn't even know where I was." "Above all, I couldn't understand how they managed to kill so many people at once." "When we undressed some of them, the order was given to feed the ovens." "Suddenly, an SS man rushed up and told me:" ""Get out of here!" "Go stir the bodies!"" "What did he mean," ""Stir the bodies"?" "I entered the cremation chamber." "There was a Jewish prisoner," "Fischel, who later became a squad leader." "He looked at me and I watched him poke the fire with a long rod." "He told me, "Do as I'm doing" ""or the SS will kill you."" "I picked up a poker and did as he was doing." "A poker?" "A steel poker." "I obeyed Fischel's order." "At that point I was in shock as if I'd been hypnotized," "ready to do whatever I was told." "I was so mindless, so horrified" "that I did everything Fischel told me." "So the ovens were fed, but we were so inexperienced" "that we left the fans on too long." "The fans?" "Yes." "There were fans to make the fire hotter." "They worked too long..." "The firebrick suddenly exploded," "blocking the pipes linking the Auschwitz crematorium" "with the smokestack." "Cremation was interrupted." "The ovens were out of action." "That evening, some trucks came, and we had to load the rest, some 300 bodies, into the trucks." "Then we were taken..." "I still don't know where... but probably to a field at Birkenau." "We were ordered to unload the bodies and put them in a pit." "There was a ditch, an artificial pit." "Suddenly, water gushed up from underground and swept the bodies down." "When night came, we had to stop that horrible work." "We were loaded into the trucks and returned to Auschwitz." "The next day, we were taken to the same place" "but the water had risen." "Some SS men came with a fire truck and pumped out the water." "We had to go down into that muddy pit to stack up the bodies." "But they were slimy." "For example, I grasped a woman, but her hands..." "Her hand was slippery, slimy I tried to pull her, but I fell over backward, into the water, the mud." "It was the same for all of us." "Up to, at the edge of the pit, Aumeyer and Grabner yelled," ""Get cracking, you filth, you bastards!" ""We'll show you, you bunch of shits!"" "And in these... how shall I say?" " Circumstances- 2 of my "friends"" "couldn't take any more." "One was a French student." "All Jews!" "They were exhausted." "They just lay there in the mud." "Aumeyer called one of his SS men:" ""Go on, finish off those swine!"" "They were exhausted." "And they were shot in the pit." "There were no crematorium at Birkenau then?" "No, there weren't any there yet." "Birkenau still wasn't completely set up." "Only Camp BI, which was late the women's camp, existed." "It wasn't until the spring of 1943 that skilled workmen and unskilled laborers, all Jews, must have gone to work here and built the 4 crematorium." "Each crematorium had 15 ovens, a big undressing room, around 3,000 square feet," "and a big gas-chamber where up to 3,000 people at once could be gassed." "TREBLINKA" "The new gas-chambers were built in September 1942." "Who built them?" "Hackenhold and Lambert supervised the Jews who did the work the bricklaying, at least." "Ukrainian carpenters made the doors." "The gas-chamber doors themselves were armored bunker doors." "I think they were brought from Bialystok, from some Russian bunkers." "FRANZ SUCHOMEL" "What was the capacity of the new gas-chambers?" "There were 2 of them, right?" "Yes." "But the old ones hadn't been demolished." "When there were a lot of trains, a lot of people, the old ovens were put back into service." "And here... the Jews say there were 5 on each side." "I say there were 4, but I'm not sure." "In any case, only the upper row, on this side," "was in action." "Why not the other side?" "Disposing the bodies would have been to complicated." "Too far?" "Yes." "Up there, Wirth had built the death camp, assigning a detail of Jewish workers to it." "The detail had a fixer number in it, around 200 people," "who worked only in the death camp." "But what was the capacity of the new gas-chambers?" "The new gas-chambers..." "Let's see..." "They could finish off 3,000 people in two hours." "How many people at once in a single gas-chamber?" "I can't say exactly." "The Jews say 200." "200?" "That's right, 200." "Imagine a room this size." "They put more in at Auschwitz." "Auschwitz was a factory!" "And Treblinka?" "I'll give you my definition." "Keep this is mind:" "Treblinka was a primitive, but efficient production line of death." "A production line?" "Of death." "Understand?" "Yes." "But primitive?" "Primitive, yes." "But it worked well, that production line of death." "Was Belzec even more rudimentary?" "Belzec was the laboratory." "Wirth was camp commandant." "He tried everything imaginable there." "He got off on the wrong foot." "The pits were overflowing and the cesspool seeped out in front of the SS mess-hall." "It stank..." "in front of the mess-hall, in front of their barracks." "Were you at Belzec?" "No." "Wirth with his own men." "With Franz, with Oberhauser and Hackenhold..." "he tried everything there." "Those 3 had to put the bodies in the pits themselves so that Wirth could see how much space he needed." "And when they rebelled..." "Franz refused..." "Wirth beat Franz with a whip." "He whipped Hackenhold, too." "You see?" "Kurt Franz?" "Kurt Franz." "That's how Wirth was." "Then, with that experience behind he came to Treblinka." "Excuse me." "How many quarts of beer a day do you sell?" "You can't tell me?" "I'd rather not." "I have my reasons." "But why not?" "How many quarts of beer a day do you sell?" "Go on, tell him." "Tell him what?" "Just tell him approximately." "400, 500 quarts." "That's a lot!" "Have you worked here long?" "Around 20 years." "Why are you hiding..." "I have my reasons." "Your face?" "I have my reasons." "What reasons?" "Never mind." "Why not?" "Do you recognize this man?" "No?" "Christian Wirth?" "Mr. Oberhauser!" "Do you remember Belzec?" "No memories of Belzec?" "Of the overflowing graves?" "You don't remember?" "MUNICH" "WUPPERAL:" "ANTON SPIESS, German state prosecutor at the TREBLINKA trial (Frankfurt, 1960)" "When the Action itself first got under way, it was almost totally improvised." "At Treblinka, for example, the commandant, Eberl, let more trains come in than the camp could handle." "It was a disaster!" "Mountains of corpses!" "Word of this foul-up reached the head of the Reinhard Action," "Odilo Globocznik, in Lublin." "He went to Treblinka to see what was happening." "There's a very concrete account of the trip by his former driver, Oberhauser." "Globocznik arrived on a hot day in August." "The camp was permeated with the stench of rotting flesh." "Globocznik didn't even bother to enter the camp." "He stopped here, before the commandant's office, sent for Eberl and greeted him" "with these words:" ""How dare you accept so many every day" ""when you can only process 3,000?"" "Operations were suspended," "Eberl was transferred and Wirth came, followed immediately by Stangl," "and the camp was completely reorganized." "The Reinhard Action covered 3 extermination camp:" "Treblinka, Sobibor and Belsec." "There's also talk of 3 death camps on the Bug River, for they were all located on or near the Bug." "The gas-chambers were the heart of the camp." "They were built first, in a wood, or in a field, as at Treblinka." "The gas-chambers were the only stone buildings." "All the others were wooden sheds." "These camps weren't built to last." "Himmler was in a hurry to begin the "final solution"." "The Germans had to capitalize on their eastward advance and use this remote back-country to carry out their mass murder as secretly as possible." "So at first they couldn't manage the perfection they achieved 3 months later." "Near the end of March 1942," "sizeable groups of Jews were herded here, groups of 50 to 100 people." "Several trains arrived" "with sections of barracks with posts, barbed wire, bricks... and construction of the camp as such began." "The Jews unloaded these cars" "and carted the sections of barracks to the camp." "The Germans made them work extremely fast." "When we saw the pace they worked at..." "It was extremely brutal." "When we saw the complex being built, and the fence, which, after all, enclosed a vast space," "we realized that what the Germans were building wasn't meant to aid mankind." "Early in June," "the first convoy arrived." "I'd say there were over 40 cars." "With the convoy were SS men in black uniforms." "It happened one afternoon." "He had just finished work." "JAN PIWONSKI" "But he got on his bicycle and went home." "Why?" "I merely thought these people had come to build the camp, as the others has before them." "That convoy..." "There was no way of knowing that it was" "the first earmarked for extermination." "Besides, he couldn't have known that Sobibor would be" "a place for the mass extermination of the Jewish." "The next morning, when I came here to work, the station was absolutely silent," "and we realized, after talking with the Poles who worked at the station here" "that something utterly incomprehensible had happened." "First of all, when the camp was being built," "there were orders shouted in German, there were screams," "Jews were working at the run there were shots, and here there was that silence," "no work crews," "a really total silence." "40 cars had arrived, and then... nothing." "It was all very strange." "It was the silence that tipped them off?" "That's right." "Can he describe that silence?" "It was a silence..." "Nothing was going on in the camp." "You heard nothing." "Nothing moved." "So then they began to wonder," ""Where have they put those Jews?"" "Cell 13, Block 11 at Auschwitz 1, is where the Special Work Detail was held." "The cell was underground, isolated." "For we were..." ""bearers of secrets", we were reprieved dead men." "We weren't allowed to talk to anyone, or contact any prisoner, or even the SS." "Only those is charge of the "Action"." "There was a window." "We heard what happened in the courtyard." "The executions, the victims' cries, the screams, but he couldn't see anything." "This went on for several days." "One night an SS man came from the political section." "It was around 4 A.M." "The whole camp was still asleep." "There wasn't a sound in the camp." "We were again taken out of our cell, and led to the crematorium." "There, for the first time, I saw the procedure used with those who came in alive." "We were lined up against a wall, and told: "No one may talk to those people"." "Suddenly, the wooden door to the crematorium courtyard opened, and 250 to 300 people filed in." "Old people, and women." "They carried bundles, wore the Star of David." "Even from a distance, I could tell they were Polish Jews," "probably from Upper Silesia, from the Sosnowitz ghetto, some 20 miles from Auschwitz." "FILIP MULLER" "I caught some of the things they said." "I heard "fachowitz", meaning "skilled worker"." "And "Malach-ha-Mawis", which means "the angel of death" in Yiddish." "Also, "harginnen":" ""They're going to kill us"." "From what I could hear," "I clearly understood the struggle going on inside them." "Sometimes they spoke of work probably hoping that they'd be put to work." "Or they spoke of "Malach-ha- Mawis", the angel of death." "The conflicting words echoed the conflict in their feelings." "Then a sudden silence fell over those gathered in the crematorium courtyard." "All eyes converged on the flat roof of the crematorium." "Who was standing there?" "Aumeyer, of the SS," "Grabner, the head of the political section," "And Hossler, the SS officer." "Aumeyer addressed the crowd:" ""You're here to work," ""for our soldiers fighting at the front." ""Those who can work will be all right."" "It was obvious that hope flared in those people." "You could feel it clearly." "The executioners had gotten past the first obstacle." "He saw it was succeeding." "Then Grabner spoke up:" ""We need masons, electricians," ""all the trades."" "Next, Hossler took over." "He pointed to a short man in the crowd." "I can still see him." ""What's your trade?"" "The man said," ""Mr. Officer, I'm a tailor."" ""A tailor?" "What kind of a tailor?"" ""A man's..." "No, for both men and women."" ""Wonderful!" "We need people like you in our workshops."" "Then he questioned a woman:" ""What's your trade?"" ""Nurse", she replied." ""Splendid!" "We need nurses in our hospitals" ""for our soldiers." ""We need all of you!" "But first, undress." ""You must be disinfected." ""We want you healthy."" "I could see the people were calmer, reassured by what they'd heard, and they began to undress." "Even if they still had their doubts, if you want to live, you must hope." "Their clothing remained in the courtyard, scattered everywhere." "Aumeyer was beaming, very proud of how he'd handled things." "He turned to some of the SS men and told them:" ""You see?" "That's the way to do it!"" "By this device, a great leap forward had been made:" "Now the clothing could be used." "RAUL HILBERG, historian" "FRANZ SCHALLING" "First, explain to me..." "How you came to Kulmhof to Chelmno?" "You were at Lodz, right?" "In Lodz, yes." "In Litzmannstadt." "We were on permanent guard duty." "Protecting military objectives:" "Mills, the roads, when Hitler went to East Prussia." "It was dreary, and we were told:" ""We're looking for men wanted to break out of this routine." "So we volunteered." "We were issued winter uniforms, overcoats, fur hats, fur-lined boots," "and 2 or 3 days later we were told, "We're off!"" "We were put aboard 2 or 3 trucks..." "I don't know..." "they had benches, and we rode and rode." "Finally we arrived." "The place was crawling with SS men and police." "Our first question was:" ""What goes on here?"" "They said, "You'll find out!"" "You'll find out?" "You'll find out." "You weren't in the SS, you were..." "Police." "Which police?" "Security guards." "We were ordered to report to the Deutsche Haus..." "The only big stone building in the village." "We were taken into it." "An SS man immediately told us:" ""This is a top secret mission!"" "Secret?" ""A top secret mission"." ""Sign this!" We each had to sign." "There was a form ready for each of us." "What did it say?" "It was a pledge of secrecy." "We never even got to read it through." "You had to take an oath?" "No, just sign, promusing to shut up about whatever we'd see." "Shut up?" "Not say a word." "After we'd signed, we were told: "Final solution" ""of the Jewish question."" "We didn't understand what that meant." "So someone said..." "He told us what was going to happen there." "Someone said "the final solution of the Jewish question"." "You'd be assigned to the "final solution"?" "Yes, but what did that mean?" "We'd never heard that before." "So it was explained to us." "Just when was this?" "Let's see... when was it?" "In the winter of 1941-42." "Then we were assigned to our stations." "Our guard post was at the side of the road." "A sentry box in front of the castle." "So you were in the "castle detail"?" "That's right." "Can you describe what you saw?" "We could see." "We were at the gatehouse." "When the Jews arrived, the way they looked:" "Half-frozen, starved, dirty, already half-dead." "Old people, children." "Think of it!" "The long trip here standing in a truck, packed in!" "Who knows if they knew what was in store!" "They didn't trust anyone, that's for sure." "After months in the ghetto, you can imagine!" "I heard an SS man shout at them:" ""You're going to be de-loused," ""and have a bath." ""You're going to work here."" "The Jews consented." "They said, "Yes, that's what we want to do."" "Was the castle big?" "Pretty big, with huge front steps." "The SS man stood at the top of the steps." "Then what happened?" "They were hustled into 2 or 3 big rooms on the first floor." "They had to undress, give up everything:" "Rings, gold, everything." "How long did the Jews stay there?" "Long enough to undress." "Then, stark naked, they had to run down more steps to an underground corridor that led back up to the ramp, where the gas van awaited them." "Did the Jews enter the van willingly?" "No, they were beaten." "Blows fell everywhere, and the Jews understood." "They screamed." "It was frightful!" "Frightful!" "I know, because we went down to the cellar when they were all in the van." "We opened the cells of the work detail, the Jewish workers, who collected the things thrown out of the 1st-floor window into there." "Describe the gas vans." "Like moving vans." "Very big?" "They stretched, say, from here to the window." "Just big trucks, like moving vans, with 2 rear doors." "What system was used?" "How did they kill them?" "With exhaust fumes." "Exhaust fumes?" "It went like this:" "A Pole yelled, "Gas!"" "Then the driver got under the van to hook up the pipe" "that fed the gas into the van." "Yes, but how?" "From the motor." "Yes, but through what?" "A pipe... a tube." "He fiddled around under the truck." "I'm not sure how." "It was just exhaust gas?" "That's all." "Who were the drivers?" "SS men." "All those men were SS." "Were there many of these drivers?" "I don't know." "Were there 2, 3, 5, 1 O?" "Not that many." "2 or 3, that's all." "I thinks there were 2 vans, one big, one smaller." "Did the driver sit in the cabin of the van?" "Mrs. Uwe?" "No." "He climbed into the cabin after the doors were closed and started the motor." "Did he race the motor?" "I don't know." "Could you hear the sound of the motor?" "Yes, from the gate we could hear it turn over." "Was it a loud noise?" "The noise of a truck engine." "The van was stationary while the motor ran?" "That's right." "Then it started moving." "We opened the gate and it headed for the woods." "Were the people already dead?" "I don't know." "It was quiet." "No more screams." "No screams." "You couldn't hear anything as they drove by." "He recalls:" "It was 1941, 2 days before the New Year." "They were routed out at night," "and in the morning they reached Chelmno." "There was a castle there." "When he entered the castle courtyard, he knew something awful was going on." "He already understood." "The site of the castle" "They saw clothes and shoes scattered in the courtyard." "Yet they were alone there." "He knew his parents has been through there, and there wasn't a Jew left." "They were taken down into a cellar." "On a wall was written, "No one leaves here alive."" "Graffiti in Yiddish." "There were lots of names." "He thinks it was the Jews from villages around Chelmno who had come before him, who had written their names." "A few days after New Year's, they heard people arrive in a truck one morning." "The people were taken out of the truck and up to the first floor of the castle." "The Germans lied, saying there were to be deloused." "They were chased down the other side, where a van was waiting." "The Germans pushed and beat them with their weapons to hustle them into the trucks faster." "He heard people praying:" ""Shma Israel", and he heard the van'srear doors being shut." "Their screams were heard, becoming fainter and fainter," "and when there was total silence, the van left." "He and the 4 others were brought out of the cellar." "They went upstairs" "and gathered up the clothes remaining outside the supposed baths." "Did he understand then how they'd died?" "MORDECHAI PODCHLEBNIK, the survivor of the 1st period of extermination at CHELMNO" "(the castel period)" "Yes, first because there had been rumors of it." "And when he went out, he saw the sealed vans, so he knew." "He understood that people were gassed in the vans?" "Yes, because he'd heard the screams, and heard how they weakened," "and later the vans were taken into the woods." "What were the vans like?" "Like the one that deliver cigarettes here." "They were enclosed, with double-leaf rear doors." "What color?" "The color the Germans used, green, ordinary." "MARTHA MICHELSOHN" "How many German families were there in Kulmhof (Chelmno)?" "10 or 11, I'd say." "Germans from Wolhnia and 2 families from the Reich, the Bauer's and us." "And you?" "Us, the Michelson's." "How did you wind up in Kulmhof?" "I was born in Laage, and I was sent to Kulmhof." "They were looking for volunteer settlers, and I signed up." "That's how I got there." "First in Warthbrucken (Kolo), then Chelmno..." "Kulmhof." "Directly from Laage?" "No, I left from Munster." "Did you opt to go to Kulmhof?" "No, I asked for Wartheland." "Why?" "A pioneering spirit." "You were young!" "Oh yes, I was young." "You wanted to be useful?" "Yes." "What was your first impression of Wartheland?" "It was primitive." "Super-primitive." "Meaning?" "Even worse, worse than primitive." "Difficult to understand, right?" "But why?" "The sanitary facilities were disastrous." "The only toilet was in Warthbrucken, in the town." "You had to go there." "The rest was a disaster." "Why a disaster?" "There were no toilets at all!" "There were privies." "I can't tell you how primitive it was." "Astonishing!" "Why did you choose such a primitive place?" "I was young, you know." "You can't imagine such places exist." "You don't believe it." "But that's how it was." "This was the whole village." "A very small village, straggling along the road." "Just a few houses." "There was the church, the castle, a store, too, the administrative building and the school." "The castle was next to the church, with a high board fence around both." "How far was your house from the church?" "It was just opposite..." "150 feet." "Mrs. MICHELSOHN was the Nazi teacher's wife" "Did you see the gas vans?" "No..." "Yes, from the outside." "They shuttled back and forth" "I never look inside..." "I didn't see Jews in them." "I only saw things from outside, the Jews' arrival, their disposition, how they were loaded aboard." "Since World War I, the castle had been in ruins." "Only part of it could still be used." "That's where the Jews were taken." "This ruined castle was used..." "For housing and de-lousing the Poles, and so on." "The Jews!" "Yes, the Jews." "Why do you call them "Poles" and not "Jews"?" "Sometimes, I get them mixed up." "There's a difference between Poles and Jews?" "Oh yes!" "What difference?" "The Poles weren't exterminated, and the Jews were." "That's the difference." "An external difference, right?" "And the inner difference?" "I can't assess that." "I don't know enough about psychology and anthropology." "The difference between the Poles and the Jews?" "Anyway, they couldn't stand each other." "On January 19, 1942, the rabbi of Grabow, Jacob Schulmann, wrote the following letter to his friends in Lodz:" ""My very dear friends," ""I didn't write sooner:" "I was sure of what I'd heard." ""Alas, to our great grief, we now know all." ""I've spoken to an eye-witness who managed to escape." ""He told me everything." ""They're exterminated in Chelmno, near Dombie," ""and they're all buried in the nearby Rzuszow forest." ""The Jews are killed in 2 ways by shooting or gas." ""It's just happened to thousand of Lodz Jews." ""Do not think that this is being written by a madman." ""Alas, it is the tragic, horrible truth." ""Horror, horror!" "Man, shed thy clothes," ""cover thy head with ashes, run in the streets" ""and dance in thy madness." ""I am so weary that my pen can no longer write." ""Creator of the universe, help us!"" "The creator did not help the Jews of Grabow." "With their rabbi, they all died in the gas van at Chelmno a few weeks later." "Chelmno is only 12 miles from Grabow." "Were there a lot of Jews here in Grabow?" "A lot, quite a few." "They were sent to Chelmno." "Has she always lived near the synagogue?" "Yes." "The Poles' word is "Buzinica", not synagogue." "She says it's now a furniture warehouse but they didn't harm it from a religious point of view." "It hasn't been... desecrated." "Does she remember the rabbi at the synagogue?" "The synagogue in GRABOW" "She says she's 80 now and her memory isn't too good, and the Jews have been gone for 40 years." "Barbara, tell this couple they live in a lovely house." "Do they agree?" "Do they think it's a lovely house?" "Tell me about the decoration of this house, the doors, what's it mean?" "People used to do carvings like that." "Did they decorate it that way?" "No, it was the Jews again." "The Jews did it!" "The door's a good century old." "Did Jews own this house?" "Yes, all these houses." "All these houses on the square were Jewish?" "Jews lived in all the ones in front, on the street." "Where did the Poles live?" "In the courtyards, where the privies were." "There used to be a store here." "What kind?" "A food store." "Owned by Jews?" "Yes." "So the Jews lived in the front, and the Poles in the courtyard with the privies." "How long have these two lived here?" "15 years." "Where'd they live before?" "In a courtyard across the square." "They've gotten rich." " Them?" " Yes." "Yes." "How did they get rich?" "They worked." "How old is the gentleman?" "He's 70." "He looks young and hale." "Do they remember the Jews of Grabow?" "Yes." "And when they were deported, too." "They recall the deportation of the Grabow Jews?" "He says he speaks "Jew" well." "He speaks "Jew"?" "As a kid he played with Jews so he speaks "Jew"." "First, they grouped them there, where that restaurant is, or in this square, and took their gold." "An older among the Jews collected the gold and turned it over the police." "That done, the Jews were put in the Catholic church." "A lot of gold?" "Yes, the Jews had gold" "and some handsome candelabras." "Did the Poles know the Jews would been killed at Chelmno?" "Yes, they knew." "The Jews knew it, too." "Did the Jews try to do something about it, to rebel, to escape?" "The young tried to run away." "But the Germans caught them and maybe killed them even more savagely." "In every town and village, 2 or 3 streets were closed and the Jews kept under guard." "They couldn't leave there." "Then they were locked in the Polish church here in Grabow and later taken to Chelmno." "Background, the synagogue" "The Germans threw children as small as these into the trucks by the legs." "She saw that?" " Old folks too." " Threw kids into the trucks." "The Poles knew the Jews would be gassed in Chelmno?" "Did this gentleman know?" "Does he recall the Jews' deportation from Grabow?" "At that time, he worked in the mill." "There, opposite?" "Yes, and they saw it all." "What did he think of it?" "Was it a sad cheery about?" "Yes." "How could you see that without sadness?" "What trades were the Jews in?" "They were tanners, tradesmen, tailors." "They sold things... eggs, chickens, butter." "There were a lot of tailors, tradesmen, too." "But most were tanners." "They had beards and side locks." "Yes." "He says they weren't pretty." "They weren't pretty?" "They stank, too." "They stank?" "Why did they stink?" "Because they were tanners, and the hides stink." "The Jewish women were beautiful." "The Poles liked to make love with them." "Are Polish women glad there are no Jewesses left?" "What'd she say?" "That the women who are her age now also liked to make love." "So the Jewish women were competitors?" "It's crazy how the Poles liked the little Jewesses!" "Do the Poles miss the little Jewesses?" "Naturally, such beautiful women?" "Why?" "What made them so beautiful?" "It was because they did nothing." "Polish women worked." "Jewish women only thought of their beauty and clothes." "So Jewesses did no work!" "None at all." "Why not?" "They were rich." "The Poles had to serve them and work." "I heard her use the word "capital"." "The capital was in the hands of the Jews." "Yes..." "You didn't translate that." "Ask her again." "So the capital was in the Jews' hands?" "All Poland was in the Jews' hands." "Are they glad there are no more Jews here, or sad?" "It doesn't bother them." "As you know," "Jews and Germans ran all Polish industry before the war." "Did they like them on the whole?" "Not much." "Above all, they were dishonest." "Was life in Grabow more fun when the Jews were here?" "He'd rather not say." "Why does he call them dishonest?" "They exploited the Poles." "That's what they lived off." "How did they exploit them?" "By imposing their prices." "Ask her if she likes her house." "Yes, but her children live in much better houses." "In modern houses!" "They've all gone to college." "Great!" "That's progress!" "Her children are the best-educated in the village." "Very good, Madam!" "Long alive education!" "Isn't this a very old house?" "Yes, Jews lived here before." "So Jews used to live here." "Did she know them?" "Yes." "What was their name?" "She doesn't know." "What was their trade?" "Benkel, their name was." "And what was their trade?" "They had a butcher shop." "A butcher shop." "Why is she laughing?" "Because the gentleman said it was a butcher shop where you could buy cheap meat." "Beef!" "What does he think about their being gassed in trucks?" "He says he doesn't like that at all." "If they'd gone to Israel of their own free will, he might have been glad." "But killing them was unpleasant." "Does he miss the Jews?" "Yes, because there were some beautiful Jewesses." "For the young, it was... fine." "Are they sorry the Jews are no longer here or pleased?" "How can I tell?" "I never went to school." "I can only think of how I am now." "Now I'm fine." "Is she better off?" "Before the war, she picked potatoes." "Now she sells eggs and she's much better off." "Because the Jews are gone or because of socialism?" "She doesn't care, she's happy because she's doing well now." "How did he feel about losing his classmates?" "It still upsets him." "Does he miss the Jews?" "Certainly." "They were good Jews, Madam says." "GRABOW in winter" "The Jews came in trucks and later there was a narrow-gauge railway that they arrived on." "They were packed tightly in the trucks, or in the cars of the narrow-gauge railway." "Lots of women and children." "Men too, but most of them were old." "The strongest were put in work details." "They walked with chains on their legs." "In the morning, they fetched water, looked for good, and so on." "These weren't killed right away." "That was done later." "I don't know what became of them." "They didn't survive, anyway." "Two of them did." "Only two." "They were in chains?" " On the legs." " All of them?" "The workers, yes." "The others were killed at once." "The Jewish work squad went through the village in chain" "Yes." "Could people speak to them?" "No, that was impossible." "Why?" "No one dared." "What?" "No one dared." "Understand?" "Yes..." "No one dared." "Why, was it dangerous?" "Yes, there were guards." "Anyway, people wanted nothing to do with all that." "Do you see?" "Gets on your nerves, seeing that every day." "You can't force a whole village to watch such distress." "When the Jews arrived, when they were pushed into the church or the castle..." "And the screams!" "It was frightful!" "Depressing." "Day after day, the same spectacle!" "It was terrible!" "A sad spectacle!" "They screamed." "They knew what was happening." "At first, the Jews thought they were going to be de-loused." "But they soon understood." "Their screams grew wilder and wilder." "Horrifying screams." "Screams of terror." "Because they know what was happening to them." "Do you know how many Jews were exterminated there?" "Four something 400,000... 40,000... 400,000." "400,000, yes." "I knew it had a 4 in it." "Sad, sad, sad!" ""When the soldiers march," ""the girls open their windows and doors..."" "Do you remember a Jewish child, a boy of 13?" "He was in the work squad." "He sang on the river." "On the Narwa River?" "Yes." " Is he still alive?" " Yes, he's alive." "He sang a German song that the SS in Chelmno taught him." ""When the soldiers march," ""the girls open their windows and doors..."" "SIMON SREBNIK, the survivor of the 2nd period of extermination at CHELMNO (the church period)" "So it's a holiday in Chemno!" "What holiday?" "What's being celebrated?" "The birth of the Virgin Mary." "It's her birthday." "It's a huge crowd, isn't it?" "But the weather's bad..." "It's raining." "Ask them if they're glad to see Srebnik again." "Very." "It's a great pleasure." "Why?" "They're glad to see him again, because they know all he's lived through." "Seeing him as he is now, they're very pleased." "They're pleased?" "Why does the whole village remember him?" "They remember him well because he walked with chains on his ankles, and he sang on the river." "He was young, he was skinny, he looked ready for his coffin." "Ripe for a coffin!" "Did he seem happy or sad?" "Even the lady," "when she saw that child, she told the German, "Let that child go!"" "He asked her, "Where to?" "To his father and mother."" "Looking at the sky, he said:" ""He'll soon go to them."" "The German said that?" "They remember when the Jews were locked in this church?" "Yes, they do." "They brought them to the church in trucks." "At what time of day?" "All day long and into the night." "What happened?" "Can they describe it in detail?" "At first, the Jews were taken to the castle." "Only later were they put into the church." "The second phase, right!" "In the morning, they were taken into the woods." "How were they taken into the woods?" "In very big armored vans." "The gas came through the bottom." "Then they were carried in gas vans, right?" "Yes, in gas vans." "Where did the vans pick them up?" "The Jews?" "Yes." "Here, at the church door." "The trucks pulled up where they are now?" "No, they went right to the door." "The vans came to the church door?" "And they all knew these were death vans?" "Yes, they couldn't help knowing." "They heard screams at night?" "The Jews moaned, they were hungry." "They were shut in and starved." "Did they have any food?" "You couldn't look there." "You couldn't talk to a Jew." "Even going by on the road, you couldn't look there." "Did they look anyway?" "Yes, vans came and the Jews were moved farther off." "You could see them, but on the sly." "In sidelong glances." "That's right, in sidelong glances." "What kinds of cries and moans were heard at night?" "They called on Jesus and Mary and God, sometimes in German, as she puts it." "The Jews called on Jesus, Mary and God!" "The presbytery was full of suitcases." "The Jew's suitcases?" "Yes, and there was gold." "How does she know there was gold?" "The procession!" "We'll stop now." "Were there as many Jews in the church as there were Christians today?" "Almost." "How many gas vans were needed to empty it out?" "An average of 50." "It took 50 vans to empty it!" "In a steady stream?" "Yes." "The lady said before that the Jews' suitcases were dumped in the house opposite." "What was in this baggage?" "Pots with false bottoms." "What was in the false bottoms?" "Valuables..." "objects of value." "They also had gold in their clothes." "When given food, the Jews sometimes threw them valuables or sometimes money." "They said before it was forbidden to talk to Jews." "Absolutely forbidden." "Ask them if they miss the Jews." "Of course." "We wept too, Madam says." "And Mr. Kantarowski gave them bread and cucumbers." "Why do they think all this happened to the Jews?" "Because they were the richest!" "Many Poles were also exterminated." "Even priests." "Mr. Kantarowski" "will tell us what a friend told him." "It happened in Myno Jewyce, near Warsaw." "Go on." "The Jews were gathered in a square." "The rabbi asked an SS man, "Can I talk to them?"" "The guard said yes." "So the rabbi said that around 2,000 years ago, the Jews condemned the innocent Christ to death." "And when they did that, they cried out:" ""Let his blood fall on our heads and on our sons' heads" "Then the rabbi told them:" ""Perhaps the time has come for that, so let us do nothing."" ""Let's us go, let us do as we're asked."" "He thinks the Jews expiated the death of Christ?" "He doesn't think so, or even that Christ sought revenge." "He didn't say that." "The rabbi said it." "It was God's will, that's all!" "What'd she say?" "So Pilate washed his hands and said:" ""Christ is innocent", he sent Barrabas." "But the Jews cried out:" ""Let his blood fall on our heads"" "That's all, now you know!" "Was the road between Chelmno, the village and the woods where the pits were asphalted as it is now?" "The road was narrower then, but it was asphalted." "How many feet were the pits from the road?" "They were around 1,600 feet, maybe 1,900 or 2,200 feet away." "So even from the road, you couldn't see them." "How fast did the vans go?" "PAN FALBORSKI" "At moderate speed, kind of slow." "It was a calculated speed because they had to kill the people inside on the way." "When they went too fast, the people weren't quite dead on arrival in the woods." "By going slower, they had time to kill the people inside." "Once a van skidded on a curve." "Half an hour later, I arrived at the hut of a forest warden named Sendjak." "He told me:" ""Too bad you were late." ""You could have seen a van that skidded." ""The rear of the van opened" ""and the Jews fell out on the road." ""They were still alive." ""Seeing those Jews crawling, a Gestapo man" ""took out his revolver and shot them." ""He finished them all off." ""Then they brought Jews who were working in the woods." ""They righted the van," ""and put the bodies back inside."" "This was the road the gas vans used." "There were 80 people in each van." "When they arrived, the SS said:" ""Open the doors!"" "We opened them." "The bodies tumbled right out." "An SS man said, "2 men inside!" These 2 men worked at the ovens." "They were experienced." "Another SS man screamed:" ""Hurry up!" "The other van's coming!"" "We worked until the whole shipment was burned." "That's how it went, all day long." "So it went." "I remember that once they were still alive." "The ovens were full, and the people lay on the ground." "They were all moving, they were coming back to life," "and when they were thrown into the ovens, they were all conscious." "Alive." "They could feel the fire burn them." "When we built the ovens, I wondered what they were for." "An SS man told me:" ""To make charcoal." "For laundry irons."" "That's what he told me." "I didn't know." "When the ovens were completed, the logs put in and the gasoline poured on and lighted," "and when the first gas van arrived, then we knew why the ovens were built." "When I saw all that, it didn't affect me." "Neither did the 2nd or 3rd shipment." "I was only 13, and all I'd ever seen until then were dead bodies." "Maybe I didn't understand." "Maybe if I'd been older I'd have understood, but the fact is, I didn't." "I'd never seen anything else." "In the ghetto, I saw..." "in the ghetto in Lodz, that as soon as anyone took a step, he fell dead." "I thought that's the way things had to be, it was normal." "I'd walk the streets of Lodz, maybe 100 yards, and there'd be 200 bodies." "People were hungry." "They went into the street and they fell, they fell..." "Sons took their father's bread, fathers took their sons', everyone wanted to stay alive." "So when I came here, to Chelmno, I was already" "I didn't care about anything." "I thought:" "If I survive," "I just want one thing:" "5 loaves of bread." "To eat." "That's all." "That's what I thought." "But I dreamed, too, that if I survive, I'll be the only one left in the world, not another soul Just me." "One." "Only me left in the world, if I get out of here." "The RUHR" ""Geheime Reichssache", secret Reich business." ""Berlin, June 5, 1942." ""Changes to be made to special vehicles now in service" ""at Kulmhof (Chelmno) And to those now being built." ""Since December 1941," ""97,000 have been processed (verarbeite in German)" ""By the 3 vehicles in service, with no major incidence." ""In the light of observation made so far, however," ""the following technical changes are needed:" ""First, the van's normal load" ""is usually 9 to 10 per square yard." ""In Saucer vehicles, which are very spacious," ""maximum use of space is impossible," ""not because of any possible overload," ""but because loading to full capacity" ""would affect the vehicle's stability." ""So reduction of the load space seems necessary." ""It must absolutely be reduced by a yard," ""instead of trying to solve the problem, as hitherto," ""by reducing the number of pieces loaded." ""Besides, this extends the operating time," ""as the empty void must also be filled with carbon monoxide." ""On the other hand, if the load space is reduced" ""and the vehicle is packed solid," ""the operating time can be considerably shortened." ""The manufactures told us during a discussion," ""that reducing the size of the van's rear" ""would throw it badly off balance." ""The front axle, they claim, would be overloaded." ""In fact, the balance is automatically restored" ""because the merchandise aboard displays" ""during the operation" ""a natural tendency to rush to the rear doors, and" ""mainly found lying there at the end of the operation." ""So the front axle is not overloaded." ""Secondly:" ""The lighting must be better protected than now." ""The lamps must be enclosed in a steel grid" ""to prevent their being damaged." ""Lights could be eliminated," ""since they apparently are never used." ""However, it has been observed" ""that when the doors are shut," ""the load always presses hard against them" "(against the doors)" ""As soon as darkness sets in." ""This is because the load naturally rushes" ""toward the light when darkness sets in," ""which makes closing the doors difficult." ""Also, because of the alarming nature of darkness," ""screaming always occurs when the doors are closed." ""It would therefore be useful to light the lamp" ""before and during the first moments of the operation." ""Third:" ""For easy cleaning of the vehicle," ""there must be a sealed drain in the middle of the floor." ""The drainage hole's cover, 8 to 12 inches in diameter," ""would be equipped with a slanting trap," ""so that fluid liquids" ""can drain off during the operation." ""During cleaning, the drain can be used" ""to evacuate large pieces of dirt" ""The aforementioned technical changes" ""are to be made to vehicles in service" ""only when they come in for repairs." ""As for the 10 vehicles ordered from Saurer," ""they must be equipped with all innovations and changes." ""Shown by use and experience to be necessary." ""Submitted for decision to Gruppenleiter II D," ""SS-Obersturmbannfuhrer Walter Rauff." ""Signed Just."" "FRANZ SUCHOMEL SS Unterscharführer" ""Looking squarely ahead, brave and joyous," ""at the world." ""The squads march to work." ""All that matters to us now is Treblinka." ""It is our destiny." ""That's why we've become one with Treblinka" ""in no time at all." ""We know only the word of our Commander." ""We know only obedience and duty." ""We want to serve, to go on serving" ""until little luck ends it all." "Hurray!"" "Once more, but louder!" "We're laughing about it but it's so sad!" "No one's laughing." "Don't be sore at me." "You want History." "I'm giving you History." "Franz wrote the words." "The melody came from Buchenwald." "Camp Buchenwald, where Franz was a guard." "New Jews who arrived in the morning" "New "worker Jews"?" "They were taught the song and by evening all of them had to sing it." "Sing it again." "All right." "It's very important." "But loud!" ""Looking squarely ahead, brave and joyous," ""at the world." ""The squads march to work." ""All that matters to us now is Treblinka." ""It is our destiny." ""That's why we've become one with Treblinka" ""in no time at all." ""We know only the word of our Commander." ""We know only obedience and duty." ""We want to serve, to go on serving" ""until little luck ends it all." "Hurray!"" "Satisfied?" "That's unique." "No Jews knows that today!" "How was it possible in Treblinka in peak days" "to "process" 18,000 people?" "18,000 is too high." "But I read that figure in court reports." "Sure." "To "process" 18,000 people." "To liquidate them." "Mr Lanzmann, that's an exaggeration." "Believe me." "How many?" "12,000 to 15,000." "But we had to spend half the night at it." "In January, the trains started arriving at 6 a.m." "Always at 6 a." "M?" "Not always." "Often." "Yes." "The schedules were erratic." "Yes." "Sometimes one came at 6 a.m. Then another at noon, maybe another late in the evening." "You see?" "So a train arrived." "I'd like you to describe in detail the whole process." "During the peak period." "The trains left Malkinia station, for Treblinka station." "How many miles from Malkinia to Treblinka?" "About six miles." "Treblinka was a village." "A small village." "As a station, it gained in importance because of the transports of Jews." "They were divided into sections of 10 or 12" "or 15 cars." "Or 15 cars?" "And shunted into Treblinka Camp, and brought to the ramp." "The other cars waited, loaded with people, in Treblinka station." "The windows were closed off with barbed wire, so no one could get out." "On the roofs were the "hellhounds", the Ukrainians or Latvians." "The Latvians were the worst." "On the ramp, for each car, there stood two Jews from Blue Squad" "to speed things up." "They said: "Get out, get out." "Hurry, hurry!"" "There were also Ukrainians and Germans." "How many Germans?" "3 to 5." "No more?" "No more." "I can assure you." "How many Ukrainians?" "Ten." "10 Ukrainians, 5 Germans." "2... 20 people from the Blue Squad." "Men from the Blue Squad were here and here." "They sent the people inside." "The Red Squad was here." "So the Red Squad was here." "What was the Red Squad's Job?" "The clothes..." "to carry the clothes taken off by the men and by the women" "up here immediately." "How much time elapsed between unloading at the ramp and the undressing, how many minutes?" "For the women, let's say an hour in all." "An hour, an hour and a half." "A whole train took 2 hours." "Yes." "In 2 hours, it was all over." "Between the time of arrival and death." "It was all over in 2 hours?" "2 hours, 21/2 hours, 3 hours." "A whole train?" "Yes, a whole train." "And for only one section, for 10 cars, how long?" "I can't calculate that because the sections came one after another and people flooded in constantly, understand?" "Usually, the men waiting who sat there, or there, were sent straight up via the "funnel"." "The women were sent last." "At the end." "They had to go up there too, and often waited here." "5... at a time." "50 people. 60 women with children." "They had to wait here until there was room here." "Naked." "Naked." "In summer and winter." "Winter in Treblinka can be very cold." "Well, in winter, in December anyway after Christmas." "But even before Christmas it was cold as hell." "Between 15 and minus 4." "I know:" "At first it was cold as hell for us, too." "We didn't have suitable uniforms." "It was cold for us too." "But it was colder for." "For those poor people." "In the "funnel"." "In the "funnel", it was very, very cold." "Can you... describe this "funnel" precisely?" "What was it like?" "How wide?" "How was it for the people in this "funnel"?" "It was about 13 feet wide." "As wide as this room." "On each side were walls this high or this high." "Walls?" "No, barbed wire." "Woven into the barbed wire were branches of pine trees." "You understand?" "It was know as "camouflage"." "There was a "Camouflage Squad" of 20 Jews." "They brought in new branches every day." "From the woods?" "That's right." "So everything was screened." "People couldn't see anything to the left or right." "Nothing." "You couldn't see through it." "Impossible." "Here and here too." "Here, too." "Impossible to see through." "Treblinka, where so many people were exterminated wasn't big, right?" "It wasn't big." "1600 feet at the widest point." "It wasn't a rectangle, more like a rhomboid." "You must realize that here the ground was flat, and here it began to rise." "And at the top of the slope was the gas-chamber." "You had to climb up to it." "The "funnel" was called the "Road to Heaven", right?" "The Jews called it the "Ascension"." "Also "The Last Road"." "I only heard those two names for it." "I need to see it." "The people go into the "funnel"." "Then what happens?" "They're totally naked?" "Totally naked." "Here stood two Ukrainians guards." "Yes." "Mainly for the men." "If the men wouldn't go in, they were beaten" "with whips." "Here too." "Even here." "Ah, yes." "The men were "driven" along." "Not the women." "Not the women." "No, they weren't beaten." "Why such humanity?" "I didn't see it." "I didn't see it." "Maybe they were beaten too." "Why not?" "They were about to die anyway." "Why not?" "At the entrance to the gas-chambers, undoubtedly." "ABRAHAM BOMBA" " ISRAEL " "In the "funnel", the women had to wait." "They heard the motors of the gas-chamber." "Maybe they also heard people screaming and imploring." "As they waited, "death-panic" overwhelmed them." ""Death-panic" makes people let go." "They empty themselves, from the front of the rear." "So often, where the women stood, there were 5 or 6 rows" "of excrement." "They stood?" "They could squat or do it standing." "I didn't see them do it." "I only saw the feces." "Only women?" "Not the men, only the women." "The men were chased through the "funnel"." "The women had to wait until a gas-chamber was empty." "And the men?" "No, they were whipped in first." "You understand?" "The men were always first?" "Yes, they always went first." "They didn't have to wait." "They weren't given time to wait, no." "And this "death-panic"..." "When this "death-panic" sets in, one lets go." "It's well-known when someone's terrified, and knows he's about to die." "It can happen in bed." "My mother was kneeling by her bed." "Your mother?" "Yes." "Then there was a big pile." "That's a fact." "It's been medically proved." "Since you wanted to know:" "As soon as they were unloaded, if they'd been loaded in Warsaw, or elsewhere, they'd already been beaten." "Beaten hard, worse than in Treblinka," "I can assure you." "Then during the train journey, standing in cars, no toilets, nothing, hardly any water." "Fear." "Then the doors opened and it started again," ""Bremze, bremze!"" ""Czipsze, czipsze!"" "I can't pronounce it:" "I have false teeth." "It's Polish." ""Bremze" or "czipsze"." "What does "bremze" mean?" "It's a Ukrainian word." "It means "faster"." "Again the chase..." "a hail of whiplashes." "The SS man Kuttner's whip was this long." "Women to the left, men to the right." "And always more blows." "No respite?" "None." "Go in there, strip." "Hurry, hurry!" "Always running." "Always running." "Running and screaming." "That's how they were finished off." "That was the technique." "Yes, the technique." "You must remember:" "It had to go fast." "And the Blue Squad also had the task of leading the sick and the aged..." "To the "infirmary", so as not to delay the flow of the people to the gas-chambers." "Old people would have slowed it down." "Assignment to the "infirmary"" "was decided by Germans." "The Jews of the Blue Squad only implemented the decision:" "Leading the people there, or carrying them on stretchers." "Old women, sick children, children whose mother was sick," "or whose grandmother was very old, were sent along with the grandma because she didn't know about the "infirmary"." "It had a white flag with a red cross." "A passage led to it." "Until they reached the end, they saw nothing." "Then they'd see the dead in the pit." "They were forced to strip, to sit on a sandbank," "and were killed with a shot in the neck." "They fell into the pit." "There was always a fire in the pit." "With rubbish, paper and gasoline," "people burn very well." "RICHARD GLAZAR" " S WITZERLAN D " "The "infirmary" was a narrow site very close to the ramp" "to which the aged were led." "I had to do this too." "This execution site wasn't covered, just an open place with the roof, but screened by a fence, so no one could see in." "The way in was a narrow passage," "very short, but somewhat similar to the "funnel"." "A sort of tiny labyrinth." "In the middle of it, there was a pit." "And to the left as one came in, there was a little booth, with a kind of wooden plank in it, like a springboard." "If people were too weak to stand on it, they'd have to sit on it," "and then, as the saying went in Treblinka jargon," "SS man Miete would "cure each one" ""with a single pill":" "A shot in the neck." "In the peak periods, that happened daily." "In those days, the pit... and it was at least" "10 to 12 feet deep... was full of corpses." "There were also cases of children who for some reason arrived alone or got separated from their parents." "These children were led to the "infirmary"" "and shot there." "The "infirmary" was also for us, the Treblinka slaves," "the last stop." "Not the gas-chamber." "We always ended up in the "infirmary"." "AUSCHWITZ today." "The sorting station." "RUDOLF VRBA Survivor of AUSCHWITZ" "Before each gassing operation, the SS took stern precautions." "The crematorium was ringed with the SS men." "Many SS men patrolled the court with dogs and machine-guns." "To the right were the steps that led underground to the "undressing room"." "In Birkenau, there were 4 crematoria," "crematorium II, III and IV, V." "Crematorium II was similar to III." "In II and III, the "undressing room" and the gas-chambers were underground." "A large "undressing room"" "of about 3000 square feet" "and a large gas-chamber" "where one could gas up to 3000 people at a time." "Crematorium IV and V were of a different type" "in that they weren't located underground." "Everything was at ground level." "In IV and V, there were 3 gas-chambers with a total capacity of at most 1800 to 2000 people at a time." "AU SC HWITZ Museum Model of crematoriums II and III" "Elevators hoisted bodies to the ovens" "Crematorium II and III had 15 ovens each." "Crematorium IV and V had 8 ovens each." "As people reached the crematorium, they saw everything this horribly violent scene." "The whole area was ringed with SS men." "Dogs barked." "Machine-guns." "They all, mainly the Polish Jews, had misgivings." "They knew something was seriously amiss." "But one of them had the faintest of notions that in 3 or 4 hours they'd be reduced to ashes." "When they reached the "undressing room", they saw that it looked like an International Information Center!" "On the walls were hooks" "and each hook had a number." "Beneath the hooks were wooden benches." "So people could undress" ""more comfortably", it was said." "And on the numerous pillars that held up this underground "undressing room"," "there were signs with slogan in several languages:" ""Clean is good!"" ""Lice can kill!"" ""Wash yourself!"" ""To the disinfection area."" "All those signs were only there" "to lure people into the gas-chambers already undress." "And to the left, at a right-angle, was the gas-chamber" "with its massive door." "Crematorium III:" "The undressing room" "The gas chamber" "In Crematoria II and III, Zyklon gas crystals were poured in by a so-called "SS-disinfection squad", through the ceiling," "and in Crematoria IV and V through side openings." "With 5 or 6 canisters of gas, they could kill around 2000 people." "This so-called "disinfection squad"" "arrived in a truck marked with a red-cross and escorted people along" "to make them believe they were being led to take a bath." "But the red-cross was only a mark to hide the canisters of Zyklon gas and the hammers to open them." "The gas took about" "10 to 15 minutes to kill." "The most horrible thing was, once the doors of the gas- chambers were opened... the unbearable sight." "People were packed together like basalt, like block of stone." "How they tumbled out of the gas-chamber?" "I saw that several times." "That was the toughest thing to take." "You could never get used to that." "It was impossible." "Crematorium IV." "Impossible" "Yes." "You see, once the gas was poured in, it worked like this:" "It rose from the ground upwards." "And in the terrible struggle that followed, because it was struggle." "The lights were switched off in the gas-chambers." "It was dark, no one could see." "So the strongest people tried to climb higher." "Because they probably realized that the higher they got, the more air there was." "They could breathe better." "That caused the struggle." "Secondly, most people tried to push their way to the door." "It was psychological:" "They knew where the door was, so maybe they could force their way." "It was instinctive a death struggle." "Which is my children..." "and weaker people, and the aged, always wound up at the bottom." "The strongest were on top." "Because in the death struggle... a father didn't realize his son lay" "beneath him." "And when the doors were opened?" "They fell out." "People fell out like blocks of stone, like rocks falling out of a truck." "But near the Zyklon gas, there was a void." "There was no one where the gas crystals went in." "An empty space." "Probably the victims realized that the gas worked strongest there." "And the people were?" "The people were battered." "They struggled and fought in the darkness." "They were covered in excrement, in blood," "from ears and noses." "One also sometimes saw that the people lying on the ground, because of the pressure of the others, were unrecognizable." "Children had their skulls crushed." "Yes." "How?" "It was awful." "Vomit." "Blood from the ears and noses." "Probably even menstrual fluid... sure of it." "There was everything in that struggle for life that death struggle." "It was terrible to see." "That was the toughest part." "FILIP MULLER, Czech Jew, survivor of the 5 liquidations of the AU SC HWITZ "special detail"" "It was pointless to tell the truth to anyone" "who crossed the threshold of the crematorium." "You couldn't save anyone there." "It was impossible to save people." "One day, in 1943 when I was already in Crematorium V," "a train from Byalistock arrived." "A prisoner on the "special detail"" "saw a woman in the "undressing room", who was the wife of a friend of his." "He came right out and told her:" ""You are going to be exterminated." ""In 3 hours you'll be ashes"." "The woman believed him because she knew him." "She ran all over and warned to the other women." ""We're going to be killed." ""We're going to be gassed"." "Mothers carrying their children on their shoulders, didn't want to hear that." "They decided the woman was crazy." "They chased her away." "So she went to the men." "To no avail." "Not that they didn't believe her." "They'd heard rumors in the Byalistock ghetto, or in Grodno, and elsewhere." "But who wanted to hear that!" "When she saw that no one would listen, she scratched her whole face." "Out of despair." "In shock." "And she started to scream." "So what happened?" "Everyone was gassed." "The woman was held back." "We had to line up in front of the oven." "First they tortured her horribly, because she wouldn't betray him." "In the end, she pointed to him." "He was taken out of the line and thrown alive into the oven." "We were told: "Whoever tell anything will end like that!"" "We, in the "special detail", kept trying to figure out if there was a way we could tell people" "to inform them." "But our experience, in several instances, where we were able to tell people, showed that it was of no use." "That it made their last moments even harder to bear." "At most, we thought it might help..." "Jews from Poland, or Jews from Theresienstdat (the Czech family camp), who'd already spent 6 months in Birkenau, we thought it might have been of use in such cases to tell people." "But imagine what it was like in other cases:" "Jews from Greece, from from Hungary, from Corfu who'd been traveling for 10 or 12 days, starving, without water for days dying of thirst, they were half-crazed when they arrived." "They were dealt with differently." "They were only told:" ""Get undressed, you'll soon get a mug of tea."" "These people were in such a state because they'd been traveling so long, that their only thought" "was to quench their thirst." "And the SS executioners knew that very well." "It was all preprogrammed" "a calculated part of the extermination process that if people were so weak, and weren't given something to drink, they'd rush into the gas-chamber." "But in fact, all these people were already being exterminated before reaching the gas-chambers." "Think of the children." "They begged their mothers, screaming:" ""Mother, please, water, water!"" "The adults, too, who'd spent days without water, had the same obsession." "Informing those people was quite pointless." "C ORFU" "MOSHE MORDO" "These are my nephews." "They burned them in Birkenau." "Two of my brother's kids." "They took them to the crematorium with their Mom." "They were all burned in Birkenau." "My brother." "He was sick, and they put him in the oven, in the crematorium, and burned him." "That was at Birkenau." "The oldest boy was 17, the second was 15." "Two more kids "kaput" with their Mom." "Yes, 4 children I lost." "Your father too?" "My Dad, him too." "How old was your father?" "Dad was 85 years old." "He was 85 years old and he died in Auschwitz." "Auschwitz, that's right." "85 and he died at Birkenau." "My father." "Your father made the whole trip." "The whole family died." "First the gas-chamber, then the crematorium." "On Friday morning, June 9, 1944, members of the Corfu Jewish community came, very frightened, and reported to the Germans." "This square was full of Gestapo men and police, and we went forward." "There were even traitors, the Recanati brothers, Athens Jews." "After the war they were sentenced to life imprisonment." "But they're already free." "We were ordered to go forward." "By the street?" "Yes, by this street." "How many of you were there?" "Exactly 1,650." "Quite a crowd?" "A lot of people." "Christians stopped there." "Christians, that's right." "And they saw." "Where were the Christians?" "At the street corner?" "Yes." "And on the balconies." "After we gathered here," "Gestapo men with machine-guns came up behind us." "What time was it?" "It was 6 a.m." "In the morning." "A fine day?" "Yes, the day was fine." "6 o'clock in the morning." "1,600." "That's a lot of people in the street." "People gathered." "The Christians heard the Jews were being rounded up." "Why'd they come?" "To see the show." "Let's hope it never happens again." "Were you scared?" "Very scared." "There were young people, sick people, little children, the old, the crazy, and so on." "When we saw they'd even brought the insane, even the sick from the survival we were frightened for the survival of the whole community." "What were you told?" "That we were to appear here at the fort to be taken to work in Germany." "Poland." "Poland, that's right." "The Germans had put up a proclamation on all the walls in Corfu." "It said all Jews had to report." "And now that we were all rounded up, life would be without us in Greece." "It was signed by the police chiefs, by officials." "And by the mayors." "That it's better without Jews?" "Yes." "We found out after we came back, right?" "Was Corfu anti-Semitic?" "Corfu's always had anti-Semitism?" "It existed, sure, but it wasn't so strong in the years just before that." "Why not?" "Because they didn't think like that against the Jews." "ARMANDO AARON P resident of the Corfu Jewish community" "And now?" "Now we're free." "How do you get on with the Christians now?" "Very well." "What'd he say?" "He asked me what you said." "He agrees our relations with the Christians are very good." "Did all the Jews live in the ghetto?" "Most of them." "What happened after the Jews left?" "They took all our possession all the gold we had with us." "They took the keys to our houses and stole everything." "To whom was all this given?" "Who stole it all?" "By law, it was to go to the Greek government." "But the state got only a small part of it." "The rest was stolen, usurped." "By whom?" "By everybody, and by the Germans." "Of the 1,700 people deported around 122 were saved." "95% of them died." "Was it a long trip from Corfu to Auschwitz?" "We were arrested here on June 9, and finally arrived June 29." "Most were burned on the night of the 29th." "It lasted from June 9 to 29?" "We stayed here for around 5 days." "Here in the fort." "No one dared escape and leaved his father, mother, brothers." "Our solidarity was on religious and family grounds." "The first group left on June 11." "I went with the 2nd convoy on June 15." "What kind of a boat were you on?" "A zattera." "That's a boat made of barrels and planks." "It was towed by a small boat with Germans in it." "On our boat there were 1, 2 or 3 guards, not many Germans, but we were terrified." "You can understand, terror is the best of guards." "What the journey like?" "Terrible!" "Terrible!" "No water, nothing to eat." "90 cars that were good for only 20 animals, all of us standing up." "A lot of us died." "Later they put the dead in another car in quicklime." "They burned them in Auschwitz, too." "Next figure:" "WALTER STIER Ex-member of the Nazi party" "Former head, Reich Railway s, Bureau 33 ("Railroads of the Reich")" "You never saw a train?" "No, never." "We had so much work, I never left my desk." "We worked day and night." ""G.E.D.O.B."" ""GEDOB" means" ""Head office of Eastbound Traffic"." "In Jan. 1940, I was assigned to GEDOB Krakow." "In mid-1943, I was moved to Warsaw." "I was made chief traffic planner." "Chief of the Traffic planning office." "But your duties were the same before and after 1943?" "The only change:" "I was promoted head of the department." "What were your specific duties at GEDOB in Poland during the war?" "The work was barely different from the work in Germany:" "Preparing timetables, coordinating the movement of special trains with regular trains." "There were several departments?" "Yes." "Department 33 was in charge of special trains and regular trains." "The special trains were handled by Dept. 33." "You were always in the Dept." "Of special trains?" "Yes." "What's the difference between a special and a regular train?" "A regular train maybe used by anyone who purchases a ticket." "Say from Krakow to Warsaw." "Or from Krakow to Lemberg." "A special train has to be ordered." "The train is specially put together and people pay group fares." "Are there still special trains now?" "Of course." "Just as there were then." "For group vacations you can organize a special train?" "Yes, for instance, for immigrant workers returning home for the holidays" "special trains are scheduled." "Or else one couldn't handle the traffic." "You said after the war you handled trains for visiting dignitaries." "After the war, yes." "If a king visits Germany by train that's a special train?" "That's a special train." "But the procedure isn't the same as for special trains" "for group tours, and so on." "State visits are handled by the Foreign Service." "Right." "May I ask you another question?" "Why were there more special trains during the war, than before or after?" "I see what you're getting at." "You're referring to the so-called "Resettlement trains"." ""Resettlement"." "That's it." "That's what they were called." "Those trains were ordered by the Ministry of Transport of the Reich." "You needed an order from the Ministry of Transport of the Reich" " In Berlin?" " Correct." "And as for the implementation of those orders, the Head Office of Eastbound Traffic in Berlin dealt with it." "Yes, I understand." " Is that clear?" " Perfectly." "But mostly, at that time, who was being "resettled"?" "No!" "We didn't know that." "Only when we were fleeing from Warsaw ourselves, did we learn that they could have been Jews or criminals or similar people?" "Jews, criminals?" "Criminals." "All kinds." "Special trains for criminals?" "No, that was just an expression." "You couldn't talk about that." "Unless you were tired of life, it was best not to mention that." "But you knew that the trains to Treblinka or Auschwitz were..." "Of course we knew." "I was the last district:" "Without me, these trains couldn't reach their destination." "For instance a train that started in Essen, had to go through the district of Wuppertal," "Hannover, Magdeburg, Berlin," "Frankfurt/Oder, Posen, Warsaw, etc." "So I had to." "Did you know that Treblinka meant extermination?" "Of course not!" "You didn't know?" "Good God, no!" "How could we know?" "I never went to Treblinka." "I stayed in" "Krakow, in Warsaw, glued to my desk." "You were a..." "I was strictly a bureaucrat!" "I see." "But it's astonishing that people in the department of special trains never knew about the "final solution"." "We were at war." "Because there were others who worked for the railroads who knew." "Like the train conductors." "Yes, they saw it." "They did." "But as to what happened, I didn't." "What was Treblinka for you?" "Treblinka or Auschwitz?" "Yes, for us Treblinka, Belzec, and all that, were concentration camps." "A destination." "Yes, that's all." "But not death." "No, no." "People were put up there." "For instance, for a train coming Essen or Cologne, or elsewhere, room had to be" "made for them there." "With the war and the allies advancing everywhere, those people had to be concentrated in camps." "When exactly did you find out?" "Well, when the word got around, when it was whispered." "It was never said outright." "Good God, no!" "They'd have hauled you off at once!" "We heard things..." "Rumors?" "That's it, rumors." "During the war?" "Towards the end of the war." "Not in 1942?" "No!" "Good God, no!" "Not a word!" "Towards the end of 1944, maybe." "End of 1944?" "Not before?" "What did you?" "It was said that people were being sent to camps, and those who weren't in good health probably wouldn't survive." "Extermination came to you as a big surprise?" "Completely." "Yes." "You had no idea." "Not the slightest." "Like that camp, what was its name?" "It was in the Oppeln district." "I've got it:" "Auschwitz!" "Yes." "Auschwitz was in the Oppeln district." "Right." "Auschwitz wasn't far from Krakow." "That's true." "We never heard a word about that." "Auschwitz to Krakow is 40 miles." "That's not very far." "And we knew nothing." "Not a clue." "But you knew that the Nazis..." "That Hitler didn't like the Jews." "That we did." "It was well-known, it appeared in print." "It was no secret." "But as to their extermination, that was news to us." "I mean, even today people deny it." "They say there couldn't have been so many Jews." "Is it true?" "I don't know." "That's what they say." "Anyway what was done was an outrage." "What?" "The extermination." "Everyone condemns it." "Every decent person." "But as for knowing about it, we didn't." "The Poles, for instance." "The Polish people knew everything." "That not surprising, Dr. Sorel." "They lived nearby, they heard, they talked." "And they didn't have to keep quiet." "TREBLINKA - the station" "The "special detail's" life depended on the trainloads due for extermination." "When a lot of them came in, the "special detail" was enlarged." "They couldn't do without the detail, so there was no weeding-out." "OSWIECIM (AUSCHWITZ) The station today." "But when there were fewer trainloads," "it meant immediate extermination for us." "We, in the "special detail", knew that a lack of trains would lead to our liquidation." " FILIP MULLER - The "special detail" lived in a crisis situation." "Every day, we saw thousands and thousands of innocent people disappear up the chimney." "With our own eyes, we could truly fathom what it means to be a human being." "There they came, men, women, children, all innocent." "They suddenly vanished, and the world said nothing!" "We felt abandoned." "By the world, by humanity." "But the situation taught us fully what the possibility of survival meant." "For we could gauge the infinite value of human life." "And we were convinced that hope lingers in man as long as he lives." "Where there's life, hope must never be relinquished." "That's why we struggled through our lives of hardship, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, hoping against hope to survive," "to escape that hell." "At that time, in January, February," "March, hardly any trains arrived." "Was Treblinka glum without the trains?" "I wouldn't say the Jews were glum." "They became so when they realized..." "I'll come to that later, it's a story in itself." "Yes, I know." "The Jews, those in the work squads, thought at first" "that they'd survive." "But in January, when they stopped receiving food, for Wirth had decreed that there were too many of them, there were a good 500 to 600 of them in Camp I." "Up there?" "Yes." "To keep them from rebelling, they weren't shot or gassed, but starved." "Then an epidemic broke out, a kind of typhus." "The Jews stopped believing they'd make it." "They were left to die." "They dropped like flies." "It was all over." "FRANZ SUCHOMEL" "They'd stopped believing." "It was all very well to say..." "We kept on insisting:" ""You're going to live!" We almost believed it ourselves." "If you lie enough, you believe your own lies." "Yes." "But they replied to me:" ""No, chief, we're just reprieved corpses"." "The "dead season", as it was called" "began in February 1943, after the big trainloads came in from Grodno and Bialystok." "Absolute quiet." "It quieted in late January, February and into March." "Nothing." "Not one trainload." "The whole camp was empty," "and suddenly, everywhere, there was hunger." "It kept increasing." "And one day when the famine was at its peak," "Oberscharfuhrer Kurt Franz appeared before us" "and told us:" ""The trains will be coming in again, starting tomorrow."" "We didn't say anything." "We just looked at each other, and each of us thought," ""Tomorrow" ""the hunger will end."" "At that period, we were actively planning the rebellion." "We all wanted to survive until the rebellion." "The trainloads came from an assembly camp in Salonika." "They'd brought in Jews from Bulgaria, Macedonia." "These were rich people:" "The passenger cars bulged with" "possessions." "Then an awful feeling gripped us, all of us, my companions as well as myself," "a feeling of helplessness, of shame." "For the threw ourselves on their food." "A detail brought a crate full of crackers, another full of jam." "They deliberately dropped the crates, falling over each other, filling their mouths with crackers and jam." "The trainloads from the Balkans brought us to a terrible realization:" "RICHARD GLAZAR we were the workers in the Treblinka factory, and our lives depended on the whole manufacturing process, that is, the slaughtering process at Treblinka." "This realization came suddenly with the fresh trainloads?" "Maybe it wasn't so sudden, but it was only with the Balkans trainloads that it became so stark to us," "unadorned." "Why?" "24,000 people," "probably with not a sick person among them," "not an invalid, all healthy and robust!" "I recall our watching them from our barracks." "They were already naked, milling among their baggage." "And David." "David Bratt." "Said to me:" ""Maccabbees!" ""The Maccabees have arrived in Treblinka!"" "Sturdy, physically strong people, unlike the others." "Fighters!" "Yes, they could have been fighters." "It was staggering for us," "for these men and women, all splendid, were wholly unaware of what was in store for them." "Wholly unaware." "Never before had things gone so smoothly and quickly." "Never." "We felt ashamed, and also that this couldn't go on, that something had to happen." "Not just a few people acting but all of us." "The idea was almost ripe back in November 1942." "Beginning in November '42 we'd noticed that we were being "spared"," "in quotes." "We noticed it and we also learned that Stangl, the commandant, wanted, for efficiency's sake, to hang on to men" "who were already trained specialists in the various sorters, corpse-haulers," "barbers who cut the women's hair, and so on." "This in fact is what later gave us the chance to prepare to organize the uprising." "We had a plan worked out in January 1943, code-named "The Time"." "At a set time, we were to attack the SS everywhere," "seize their weapons and attack the Kommandantur." "But we couldn't do it because things were at a standstill in the camp, and because typhus had already broken out." "In the fall of 1943," "when it was clear to all of us that no one would help us" "unless we helped ourselves, a key question faced us all:" "For us in the "special detail", was there any chance to halt this wave of extermination and still save our lives?" "We could see only one:" "Armed rebellion." "We thought that if we could get hold of a few weapons" "and secure the participation of all the inmates" "throughout the camp, there was a chance of success." "That was the essential thing" "That's why our liaison men contacted the leaders of the Resistance movement, first in Birkenau, then in Auschwitz I," "so the revolt could be coordinated everywhere." "FILIP MULLER" "The answer came that the Resistance command in Auschwitz I agreed" "with our plan and would join with us." "Unfortunately, among the Resistance leaders there were very few Jews." "Most were political prisoners whose lives weren't at stake," "and for whom each day of life lived through increased their chances" "of survival." "For us in the "special detail", it was the opposite." "RUDOLF VRBA" "AU SC HWITZ" " BIRKEN AU"