"RAI RadioteIevisione italiana presents" "TRAVELLING TIME by ANDREI TARKOVSKY and by:" "TONINO GUERRA" "It must be Andrei." " Did you have anything to eat?" " Yes, thank you." "You know, Andrei, I wrote some poetry last night." " Oh, yes?" " Yes, for you." " For me?" " Yes, I want to read it to you." "I write poetry in dialect, not in italian." "But I will read it in italian so maybe you will understand something." "I don't know what a house is" "Is it a coat?" "Or an umbrella if it rains?" "I have filled it with bottles, rags, wooden ducks curtains, fans" "It seems I never want to leave it" "Then it's a cage" "That imprisons whoever passes by" "Even a bird like you, dirty with snow" "But what we told each other" "Is so light that it cannot be kept in" "It's good." "It's very good." "It's very sad." "No, it gives us some hope." "Everything will go well." "Today is a terrible day." "We need to have a plan because otherwise we'II never manage to do anything." "I took down some notes." "Here we are." "We need to go through everything we want to keep of the journey that we did." "What can be used for the screenplay." "And we can throw away the rest." "But we need to have a general list." "We should start from Sorrento." "Excuse me a second." "Yes?" "Oh, MicheIangeIo." "Yes, we are here." "Say hello to MicheIangeIo for me." "He says hello." "Thank him for everything." "That's okay." "Okay." "You come here." "So you are coming as well?" "So you come here at 10:00, and then we go to the airport together." "A big hug." "Bye." "Andrei." "I have spoken to MicheIangeIo." "He told me he was the first one to do a documentary on Bomarzo." " Ah, yes?" " Yes, there were all those roots and nobody was taking any notice." "That's nice." "He says we were there for a day." "Anyway, he wants to see it." "He says he wants to say hello to you." "Thank you." "No, but personally." "Toni, I've been thinking a Iot about what you said to me..." "About those, shall we say, problems?" "You see, I've got a complicated impression." "I am confused, you see?" "The things that I saw yesterday seem as if I saw them a week ago." "About our journey that was a month ago," "I feel as if it was just a moment ago." "Everything got mixed up, the time and the space." "I feel as if for italy, the ability to perceive depths of perspective has not been invented yet." "Proportions... as we saw those dwellings, standing on the plain..." "This scope somehow reminds me of Russia and its spaces." "Everything else looks kind of flat, as if it was located on a surface." "The effect is so strong, it's troubling..." "AII southern italy, with Sorrento and everything we saw..." "What are your most enduring images out of all we have seen?" "Toni, I understand." "I'II tell you honestly." "In the beginning of our journey I felt somewhat strange, because in the south of italy, on the shore, it seemed to me..." "AmaIfi." "Very nice." "It's more like a resort place, a place for rest, for tourists." "This irritated me a bit." "Most of all I liked, Iet's say, amalfi or the place called FIore." "Maybe this is where the pirates used to come." "I think it's the only place where you can easily land." "Where you can reach the shore." "You know, I would be sorry..." "frankly, I would be very sorry if we threw away all Lecce and its baroque." "Because it's beautiful." "You know, the Lecce baroque is unique and sophisticated." "It's simple." "There could be some naked columns with some huge work inside." "So, this flourish..." "This eccentricity only appears in some particular areas." "Then, do you remember those churches..." "AII this Lecce stone." "I think that priest talked about a special stone." "It's all in the altars." "AItars, altars and simplicity." "And I Iike it." "Lecce really impressed me." "Maybe we could use it." "For instance, if our character was an architect, it wouId be a pity if he did not see Lecce." "Tonino, I think this place is too beautiful for our movie." "It's too beautiful." "It's very interesting by itself, but I think, that for our character, notwithstanding his interest in architecture, it's too beautiful." "Our character doesn't always have to be at great architectural sites." "Wait." "We can stop this priest." "He'II know more than us." "The Lecce baroque flourished because it's easy to work the local stone." "It's a soft stone." "It's a soft stone that can be easily worked on." "And it's also very resistant, as you can see." "I couId also add that under the cathedral" "lies the antique chapel." "The antique church." "There are 48 columns." "But they all have their own symmetry." " You'II see all these straight columns." " I see." "There is a good priest that will explain everything to you." "I understand." "Then the mosaics on the floor are symbolic." "They date back to even before Dante." "Here there was a literary culture that preceded Dante." "AII the different cultures," "Indian, Persian, Egyptian," "Mesopotamian, Norse, HeIIenistic," "PIatonic and Augustan, biblical and Breton cultures are on this tree." "And in all cultures there is something true." "And to enrich themselves, being faithful to their political and religious beliefs, human beings take whatever they need from other cultures." "In an open way." "This concept was reaffirmed by the second Vatican council." "But we already lived it." "It's the biblical concept." "So in respect of these cultures, today we can have a dialogue with all cultures." "Without any obstacles." "Without any ideology." "I am very happy that the Madonna del Parto will probably be in the film." "Because it's so beautiful." "Very beautiful." "I got a bit worried when I saw these reproductions." "Look at all this red." "It's not there." "The walls seem to be ready to eat the painting." "There is so much dust." "And there is this blue and white on the lap." "It's incredible." "Here it's nothing." "So I don't believe in reproductions of painting," "I don't believe in translating poems." "Art is very jealous." "Very jealous." "You must look for it at home." "Some young people sent a few questions." "Listen to this." "If you had to talk to today's and yesterday's great directors, for what reasons would you thank each of them for what you feel they gave you?" "First of all, I have to recollect, not recollect, I always remember the genius Dovzhenko," "alexander Dovzhenko, "Earth" by Dovzhenko." "The silent movie." "Outstanding director." "In that era of silent movies, he made miracles, in my opinion." "Poetic cinema." "I'II be brief in answering this question." "Then..." "Bresson," "Robert Bresson." "Bresson has always astonished me and attracted me with his asceticism." "It seems to me that he is the only director in the world who has achieved absolute simplicity in cinema." "As it was achieved in music by Bach, in art by Leonardo..." "ToIstoy achieved it as a writer." "For me, ToIstoy, do you understand?" "Therefore for me he's always been an example of the simplicity of genius." "Asceticism..." "Antonioni, for sure." "Because Antonioni has made a strong impression on me with his films, especially with "L'Awentura", for which you, by the way, wrote a script." "Yes, you helped and you made the script." "I find the movie very interesting." "I realised then, watching this film, that "action", the meaning of action in cinema is rather conditional." "practically nothing happens in Antonioni's films." "And this is the meaning of "action" in Antonioni films." "More precisely, in those Antonioni films that I Iike the most." "I Iike FeIIini for his kindness, for his love of people, for his, Iet's say, simplicity and intimate intonation." "If you'd Iike to know - not for popularity, but rather for his humanity " "I value him tremendously." "His baroque, exuberant, beautiful..." "Mizoguchi's "Ugetsu" is astounding in its simplicity, elegance and wonderful nobIeness of picture and acting." "I remember Vigo with tenderness and thankfulness, the French director, who, in my opinion, is the father of modern French cinema." "First, the new wave, then what this wave has thrown out on the shore, what has been left after this wave." "It was..." "Vigo founded the French cinema, and nobody has gone farther than him." "Then, with great pleasure and thankfulness I always remember the films of Sergei Paradzhanov, that I Iike very much." "His way of thinking is very paradoxical and poetic." "His ability of loving beauty, his skill at being completely free inside his own creation." "Where did we see all those hydrangeas?" "Do you remember?" "No, I don't." "RaveIIo." "RaveIIo." "I think it was in that cloister." "I remember the lessons of Bergman, his films that I Iike very much and that I watch over and over every time I start making a new film of my own." "This villa, was it built by order of a Russian princess?" "No, it wasn't built by order of a Russian princess." "But by order of the Bourbons of naples and of the Two SiciIies." "But at one point a Russian princess became the owner." "Yes, the Russian princess came here once." "It was given as a present to Maria FiIiberta of Savoy, who sold it to La Korchakova." "And to be precise, to the princess EIena Korchakova." "tell him, please." " Do you understand?" " Yes, I understand." "I want to ask you a question." "We came here for a very odd thing that happened to me." "Seven, eight years ago, someone told me about a floor." "And I have gone crazy and hope I'II drive him crazy as well in an attempt to see this floor." "It's a white floor, made by PaIizzi, with some rose petals." "Yes, it's true." "And who built that?" "It was the princess." "Yes." "That floor is in the villa." "It was designed for this villa by the painter FiIippo PaIizzi." "In 1888, I believe." "And it's unique." "In fact, it's very big, about 15 metres long." "With rose petals scattered everywhere." "Rose petals and leaves." "In memory of a Portuguese countess." " No, sorry." " It's the same." "No, she wasn't Portuguese." "Sorry, she was Hungarian." "I made a mistake." "Yes, an 18-year-oId Hungarian countess, with whom the Bourbon fell madly in love." "Then, this countess died and apparently the Bourbon went mad and flung every object that the countess had touched into the sea." "tell Andrei that I told him the truth." "We are close to the villa and the current owner won't let us see the floor but the floor is there." "It's not true that the owner won't let you see the floor." "unfortunately, the owner is not in Sorrento at the moment." "So, we cannot gain access to the rooms where the floor is." "Okay, but we've been trying to get in touch with her for four days." "Now, it seems a bit..." "well, this is unlikely." "I received a call at 9:15 this morning." "I did not have the time to talk to her and ask her to cancel her engagements." "I am okay." "I just wanted to prove that the floor is actually there." "Because we went to see the bread and the bread is not there." "You made up the whole bread thing." "It's not true." "It's not true." "It's not important." "At this moment the owner doesn't live here." "I can let you take a picture of the floor on the terrace where there is a plaque in memory of a party that was held here at Parco dei Principi." "The famous julia Sedova was a guest, the great ballet dancer of the Saint Petersburg imperial Theatre." "Here he'II show us another floor on the terrace, that was made in memory of julia Sedova, the great ballet dancer of the Saint Petersburg imperial Theatre." "Of her performance here..." "In memory of such a poetic story, Princess Korchakov asked PaIizzi to paint this floor with rose petals." "In memory of such a poetic story, Princess Korchakov asked PaIizzi to paint this floor with rose petals." " This is a romantic story." "It is beautiful." " sentimental." " Yes, a poetic and romantic story." " Very nice." "I liked the idea of the painter, of PaIizzi." "He did this white floor with petals scattered here and there." "They look like they were thrown in from the window." "As those leaves are falling from the window..." "I have an illustration of this floor that was photographed by a magazine specialising in architecture." "It was presented as a totally unique floor." "Okay, Iet's see it." "Let's see this page, Iet's see this page." "But what have I got to do with Sorrento?" "I Iike it, they tell me about an extraordinary white floor, with some roses scattered everywhere." "Is it my fault if it's not there?" "Isn't it wonderful to see something like that?" "I think it was PaIizzi who did it." "Isn't it wonderful to see this floor?" "We know that there is a closed home with a big floor and that a woman asked for all these white tiles to be made." "With rose petals scattered around, not in a regular pattern as if the wind had blown away some rose leaves." "Of course, it's not there." "A guy from naples told me." ""Why do you make me go to naples?" I have done everything I couId." "I swear, I couldn't do anything more than this." "If you had to talk to some young directors, what would your main recommendations be?" "Nowadays everyone makes movies, everybody thinks they can make movies, you see?" "Anyone that is not too lazy..." "It's not hard to Iearn how to edit the film, how to work a camera..." "But the advice I can give to beginners is not to separate their work, their movie," "their film from the life they live." "Not to make a difference between the movie and their own life." "Because... a director is like any other artist:" "a painter, a poet, a musician..." "And since it is required from him to contribute his own self, it is strange to see directors that take their work as a special privilege, given to them by destiny, and simply exploit their profession." "That is, they live in one way, but make movies in another." "And I'd Iike to tell directors, especially young ones, that they should be morally responsible for what they do while making their films." "Do you understand?" "It is the most important of all." "secondly, they should be prepared for the thought that cinema is a very difficult and serious art." "It requires seIf-sacrifice." "You should belong to it, it shouldn't belong to you." "Cinema uses your life, not vice versa." "Therefore I think that this is the most important..." "You should sacrifice yourself to the art." "This is what I've been thinking lately about my profession." "What's the problem?" "He looks a bit nervous." "We always travel to these kinds of "tourist" sites." "We always go to tourist places." "I've not yet seen a place, where..." "I have not yet seen the place... ..where our character could be... ..where our character could live." "He's right but I am showing him all these places to enrich him with all these italian beauties." "After that, he can forget about them." "On the other hand, I couId ask him a question." "Why would a Russian person come here for a month?" "He comes here for work or, not so much for tourism, but for the culture." "Our character would be abstract if we didn't show anything." "I agree that we shouldn't show too much of these beauties but I wouldn't like him to be abstract." "I'd Iike to make a comparison." "In my village, there is a painter called Federico Moroni." "He's very good." "He's a great master." "Once, he gave his pupils an iron ball to hold with the Ieft hand." "Then he gave them a pencil to hold with the right hand and asked them to draw a circle." "The kids drew the circle." "But it wasn't a flat circle." "It was a circle with some volume." "It contained the weight of the ball on their left hand." "Then I would Iike to put on his left hand as many italian images as I can so that if tomorrow he takes a picture of a field or something anonymous this will contain those beauties." "I am a bit worried as I feel like I am on holiday." "And I am not used to this state." "For me it's very important that we experience this way of Iife." "Not only the beauty of italy..." "Not only the beauty and architecture of italy but also the people, their work." "What happens in the streets, their feelings..." "He's right but let me ask a question." "How many days have we been around?" "Four days." "You must see these things." "I feel like we've been travelling for 2 weeks." "This is a girl posing a question." "Is science fiction a world you feel passionate about or is it a way to escape reality?" "Neither, Toni." "I don't like science fiction, as I don't like to escape life." "In the meaning..." "I think that genre in cinema always indicates a commercial movie, in the bad meaning of this word "commercial"." "I am not against popularity, but I'm against commercial movies." "Therefore when I make science fiction films," "I don't think of them as science fiction." "For instance, I find the movie "solaris" not so good, because I couId not escape from the genre, from the fantastic details." "In "stalker", however, the movie that was made was based on a science fiction story." "I think I've managed to overcome this genre and to get rid of all "science fiction" signs completely." "This gives me great pleasure." "The genre problem in cinema doesn't exist for me, because for me, cinema is an art that can cover everything:" "tragedy, happiness, sadness, fun, fortune..." "only then is cinema able to reflect life." "On the other hand, I don't really" "like commercial movies, you see?" "Anyway, I am not a fan of the science fiction genre." "And while making a movie, I first of all think of it as a movie without any genre at all." "Why were you so fascinated by Bagni Vignone?" "I thought we should make one of the most important scenes here, in the hotel." "Maybe not in the hotel, but with decor, looking like it." "Do you remember when I felt sick and went to room 38 to rest?" "For an hour." "This room astonished me, since the window wasn't facing the street." "I didn't see any landscape." "It was a well, a tiny well with a dim light." "It was dark inside, it was always dark in this room." "It was a very strange mysterious place, Iike a hospital, maybe." "A place where one could only feel very bad." "There is not enough air..." "I thought we should make a scene here, in this room about our character..." "In the moment of crisis..." "That's what I thought..." "Not only do I Iike this room," "I also like this swimming pool, of course." "This swimming pool from which steam rises in the mornings..." "The atmosphere of mystery, sadness and loneliness..." "I think that in the late autumn it'II be very beautiful." "It is the most important, I agree with you, the most important scene of our future movie." "I don't think we should pay a Iot of attention to the architecture, although our character is interested in architecture." "I think it is important to pay attention to the journey that our character makes inside himself, this is the most important." "And in my opinion, this place is very useful to make..." " Do you cook your own food?" " Yes, everything." " Every morning?" " Yes." "You are good." "And what time do you go to bed?" "In the evening, towards 10:00, 10:30pm." " What time do you get up in the morning?" " 4:30am at the latest." " Are you the one who rings the bell?" " Yes." " At midday?" " At midday." "And what have you cooked today?" "well, I don't know yet." "You don't know?" "Listen, now you walk towards the church." "You can go towards the church." "Bye." "Straight on, towards the road." "Which films did you not manage to do and why?" "There were a Iot of other projects that I couldn't make happen." "I think that every director always has some plans that don't happen for some reasons." "I think it's part of a director's work to have these ideas that you cannot make happen." "I have this one idea that I Iike very much." "Maybe some day I'II make a movie out of it..." "About a man who sets his wife on fire only because she doesn't tell the truth, because she lies." "Lies aren't very important issues, you see?" "He loves her very much, and she loves him." "She is a wonderful woman, they love each other, and they have a wonderful relationship." "But she makes things up." "She goes out and when she comes back, he asks:" "Where have you been?" "She answers:" ""I was visiting a friend."" "But he knows that she wasn't at her friend's house, she was some place else, Iet's say in the movie theatre." "He doesn't understand why she lies." "I think she doesn't realise it either." "Maybe because of some seIf-preservation instinct." "He struggles with her but cannot convince her not to lie." "In the end he ties her to a tree and sets her on fire, Iike Joan of Arc." "I Iike this idea very much, but I didn't make a movie out of it." "Most regrettable is one screenplay that I wrote together with my friend about someone... that looked for a place where his mother was buried." "He didn't know exactly where the grave was." "With the tombstone in his trunk he drove through a town," "looking for the place and asking the people where his mother had died, in order to put up the tombstone." "He doesn't manage to do it and he drops off the tombstone at the first village cemetery he sees." "And he imagines that she..." "A year before she died, my mother came to see me in Rome." "I did not live here." "I lived in the ParioIi area." "She came only for a day." "And towards the evening, she told me," ""The night has come"." "She didn't simply mean it was the end of a day." "She was probably hinting at the end of her life." "Now the night has come also for us." "For this wonderful coming together." "tell me something." "As soon as you get to Moscow, what will you feel like doing?" "I'II try to go to the village right away." "I miss the village." "Larissa and I bought a little house there to spend most of our time, but unfortunately, it's not working out." "half a year, about 8 months." "It was the first time I've ever lived in a village without going away, permanently." "And I saw the whole cycle of this life." "I was astonished, because I saw that in the same place nature..." "I was in a hurry at the beginning," "I thought I was missing some important things in Moscow, that I should go, catch up with someone." "Now I Iive on this land." "There are many beautiful fields around our village, many fields." "And a very beautiful land, especially when cultivated." "When the wheat blooms, there are many white flowers." "In the dark it looks like fog on the ground." "It is difficult to tell whether it is fog or flowers." "It is a very beautiful view." "beautiful soil." "Wet soil is violet." "Dry soil makes a noise when you walk on it." "It reminds me of soil we saw in Tuscany on our journey, remember?" "But it's also beautiful in Romagna." "Up until I was 32, I lived in the country." "It's beautiful everywhere you go." "The land is beautiful because it's the same here, in Russia and everywhere." "I have written a poem." "First, I'II read it in italian because otherwise you won't understand much." "The Oxen" "Go ahead and tell the oxen they can leave" "That the work they have done is done" "Go ahead and tell the oxen they can leave That the work they have done is done" "That now it's faster to plough with a tractor" "And it makes everyone's heart weep, including mine" "To see how hard they've worked for thousands of years" "And now they have to go, heads down" "Behind the butcher's long rope" "Andrei!" "You have not told me whether you Iike my house or not." "Yes, I Iike it a Iot." "Yes, but I am sure you will change it when you go to Russia." "No." "I Iike it the way it is." "Oh, we pay each other compliments like some prostitutes." "Read your poem in dialect to me." "Once again." "Which one?" "The one about the coat." "Ah, the one I told you this morning." "I don't know what a house is" "Is it a coat?" "Or an umbrella if it rains?" "I have filled it with bottles, rags, wooden ducks, curtains, fans" "It seems I never want to leave it" "Then it's a cage" "That imprisons whoever passes by" "Even a bird like you, dirty with snow" "But what we told each other" "Is so light that cannot be kept in" "TRAVELLING TIME by ANDREI TARKOVSKY"