"This programme contains strong language and scenes which some viewers may find disturbing." "'The witnesses are entering the witness room." "'The condemned has declined to make a last statement." "'Perspiration is now being wiped from the forehead of the condemned.'" "'On my count of three?" "One, two, three.'" "CLUNKING" "'The execution is now in progress." "'He is sitting there with clenched fists.'" "'He's slowly relaxing at this time.'" " 'Death did occur at 12:24." "That completes it." " Smooth job.'" "'OK, we appreciate it." "Get us another one.'" "The numbers went from one, two, three, four and it kept climbing." "'How many people are there?" "Your dad...?" "'" " 'My whole family's dead'. - 'OK'." " 'I don't know what to do, man'." "The only person who had the opportunity and the intent and the motive was that man sitting right there." ""It'll be all right, Grandma," is what he says." "Well, I'm 22." "I've not gone through as many life experiences as the others." "Juror number three." "I've been in the service, I've been in the military and I've worked in all these big industries, mechanical and electrical engineer." "So, you know, I've been all over the place and been in a lot of things." "So it takes all that to know a little something about the world besides one little place." "Juror 32." " We are deciding someone's fate." " Deciding someone's fate." "I've never been in this situation before, so I don't know what to think of it, and also why." "Who am I to be..." "Yeah, you know?" "I just don't know anything about it." "I don't know why they needed me so bad, you know?" "Juror number four." "I'm a very religious person." "If I'm strong enough to stand behind my faith, then I'm probably strong enough to stand up to anything that may happen in a deliberation room." "I've never been picked for a jury before." "Never even been..." "It all happened so fast." "When they called my name out the first day of the jury selection process," "I can just remember my heart racing and realising that "You're in it now."" ""This is a part of it." "This is going to be your life" ""for at least the next week or so," ""and you're really going to have to make a decision here"." "Juror number eight." "Juror number 11 in the Guy Heinze Jr trial." "We have some breaking news tonight out of the coastal town of Brunswick, Georgia." "Police responding to a 911 call have found seven people dead inside a mobile home." "Police aren't saying much about what happened inside this mobile home, except to say it's where people were found murdered." "Here's the latest from the chief of police." "Should people be worried?" "We all need to be worried." "I mean, why wouldn't you?" "Until this is solved, of course we need to be worried." "You have to understand, this is a highly unusual event." "This one is not what you'd call a typical homicide." "A very violent death." "Very violent." "My impression when I first looked at it was that whoever did this had a lot of rage." "The most heinous crime we've ever had in the community, and I think we all know that, and I think that speaks for itself." "Police say each of them was beaten with a blunt object." "I try and stay in, I lock my car." "It's making me wonder, you know, who's walking around who's capable of actually doing this?" "Breaking news out of Georgia where tonight a man is under arrest charged with killing eight people." "This is the suspect, 22-year-old Guy Heinze Jr, who now faces eight counts of murder." "Seven of those victims are related to him." "'I am absolutely certain, 100%, what happened." "'I'm absolutely certain how it happened.'" ""Demon Host" by Timber Timbre." "The trial will be starting Tuesday." "My grandson is accused of mass murder, of supposedly killing eight people." "He has never been a confrontational person." "I spent a lot of time with him." "I babysat him while he was little while his momma went to nursing school." "So we were kind of attached." "Um..." "I've dated all this." "I think it shows that they focused on him in the very beginning." "I think from day one, which this indicates that they arrested him, they didn't look any further." "Most normal, intelligent people would realise one person could not possibly beat eight people to death and not have marks on him." "Somebody would have gotten out of there, somebody would have attacked him." "It makes absolutely no sense to me." " So have you got clothes to go to court in?" " Mm-hmm." "What have you got?" "Some button-down shirts and some pants." "Not very talented at this clothes sorting thing." " How many of those will you have, Tyler?" " How many what?" "Things with your clothes in?" "I'm going to have this blue thing, this trash bag, and that should be it." "I'm 20 years old." "I live with my grandma." "I'm the brother, the younger brother of Guy Heinze Jr." "'Basically, this crazy murder trial going on." "'My dad and my uncle and my cousins got killed 'and they got my brother in jail for doing it.'" "What's your name?" " Guy." " G-U-Y?" "'Other people have their crazy stories." "This is my crazy story.'" "I am packing stuff in the truck to go to Georgia." "Um, my brother's trial is about to start, and I have to be there with my grandmother, so we're going to Georgia for the trial, basically." "You don't fold clothes very much." "You certainly couldn't get a job doing that." "It's got to get stuff in here." "Just going to have to dewrinkle these in Georgia." "Basically, I am all they have left, because both parents are dead." "Guy was 17 when their mom died and Tyler was 11." "'It was a drug overdose.'" "Wait." "'Tyler was devastated." "I mean, he went everywhere with his mom." "'He was his momma's pet.'" "It would be smart to hold it by the side instead of tearing the plastic with a split in it." "You know smart's not my forte." "Well, it's time you got a little bit." "'I mean, I've already been at the rock bottom place." "I can only go up." "'I mean, I feel like if my brother gets out of jail, 'that's going to be a boost for me right there 'and I feel like I can hold him steady and he can hold me steady.'" "I took a lot of pictures." "This is Guy." "I like the expression on his face better than anything." "Looks like he's just gazing up at the heavens." "I think most of them, Jean took." " That's his mom." " Really?" " Yeah." "Oh, they look like her." "That's Tyler?" " That's Tyler and Guy." " Yeah." " Oh!" "That's Tyler and Guy." "Look, that is funny." "I mean, there's no doubt that they're brothers." "We have to..." "I mean, the jury has to see these." "Yeah." "Especially that one." "Look at this." " Cute." "That's Guy?" " Yeah." "'Just the association humanises them, 'you realise they have hopes, fears, dreams." "'That's what you want the jury to see." "They're real people." "'Makes it harder to kill them.'" "I'm nervous." "You know, it's very stressful representing someone that you believe did not commit the crime for which they are charged." "And it's even more stressful knowing that, you know, their fate is literally in your hands and the hands of a jury." "'His entire family has been murdered, 'and then the State is saying not only." "' "You're the one that killed your entire family", ' but "We're going to kill you for killing your entire family."" "'I think it was decided by law enforcement' within the hour that Guy was the chief and only suspect." "I know you've been through a hell of a lot in the last hour, OK?" "Unfortunately, you're going to have to go through it again, because we've got to find the people that done this." "You were one of the first ones there." "You're going to be the person that's going to help us figure out what happened, OK?" "I believe I was at home when I got the call." "The lieutenant who called me, a watch commander, they had a homicide case and he said they had multiple victims." "But he didn't know how many." "We have four in here." "'And the numbers went from one, two, three, four and it kept climbing, 'and he says, "I don't know, I'll have to call you back".'" "So I got dressed." "Told the wife, as I usually do with these things," ""Honey, I got to go to work, don't know when I'll see you again."" "The biggest challenge was." "OK, if one person did this, how can we prove that?" "I realise you was pretty messed up that night." "Guy, is it possible, with you being high like you were," " that you could have done this?" " No, no." " OK." "All right." "'We were convinced he did it and he was alone." "'I'm still confident of that." "'But the jury has to make that determination.'" "So there's always a degree of worry, because you know that, how a person looks at something, they may look at it differently than you." "Jean, I want you to come up here, if you would, please." "They've got everything set, they're going to start the trial." "We need to remember them in prayer." "Pray... for wisdom justice, and God's will." "God's the only one that knows the whole story." "We'll just encircle these families, we'll close in prayer." "Father, I'll be the first one to tell you we don't understand all that goes on." "But, Lord, I know that you understand." "And, Father, I just pray this morning, for Jean, for Guy, for Tyler." "Lord, we're praying for truth." "We're praying for answers." "We're praying for your will to be done." "To your glory, we ask in Jesus' name, Amen." "I want to thank everybody for their prayers." "It means a lot." "Good to see you." "I hope everything turns out for you." "I actually am seven and a half hours away from South Georgia." "How do you two get on?" " Get along?" " You can't tell?" "SHE LAUGHS" "For the most part, we get along pretty well." " He thinks I'm 30 years behind the times." " Nobody's ever said that." "Those words have never came out of my mouth." "You are sitting there, telling a bald-faced black lie." "You told me I was 30 years behind the times when I was trying to tell you how to act like a civilised young man." "How are you both feeling about the trial at the moment?" "I feel good about it, but still, there's always that little niggling doubt, you know, that little..." "Unsettled, not doubt." "Unsettled." "I'm glad for Guy, cos I know he's ready to get back out into the world." "I couldn't imagine what it would be like being in jail for four years and not being able to hug anyone or have any friendships." "'A local man accused of slaughtering his family 'is finally going on trial four years after the killings." "'This is a death penalty case." "'Lawyers have selected the jury panel." "'Superior Court Judge Stephen Scarlett has ordered all of them 'to be sequestered throughout the trial, 'which is expected to last at least two weeks'." "This is our whole case file." "This is everything that we've compiled." "This represents four years of work by the Capital Defender Office and a bunch of attorneys and investigators." "In here and in everybody's head, you know, we have what we think we need to be able to save his life." "Hey, Sam, am I the lead?" "OK, sorry." "I wasn't clear, sorry." "All right." "'The train is on the track." "'This is one of the biggest cases ever to occur' in the State of Georgia." "We don't have a whole lot of mass murder situations." "Unbelievable!" "Bludgeoned to death." "Police say he acted alone." "Straight after my fantastic expert panel," "Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor and author of And Justice For Some." "They have no doubt they got the right guy." "I think it's silly that his lawyer is saying he wasn't involved." "Please!" "Psychologist Belisa Vranich." "It goes back possibly even generations." "There must something there that has been bothering him and has been brewing, maybe 10, 20, 22 years." "Forensic pathologist Dr Bill Manion." "I agree with all the speculation." "Steve Kardian, former criminal investigator." "This was fuelled more than likely by drugs, by money, by being spurred by a family member, and some sort of event occurred in his life that caused that man to go under extreme rage." "I think there's no question he was enraged." "You know, duh!" "All those dead people." " This isn't a gun, where you go..." " SHE IMITATES GUNFIRE." "You have to go in, whack, whack, kill, go to the other room," " do the same thing." "That rage is not just festering." " Got to wrap it up." "Thank you to my fantastic panel." "A call to arms in Puerto Rico, a new proposal to breed monkeys for testing and experimentation." "This is a barbaric ritual in my opinion, and we're going to talk about it..." "We want the case concluded." "Obviously, we want a guilty verdict, but juries make that decision, and we deal with it." "'My first death penalty murder case was a murder by two young men." "'And I actually went to those two executions.'" "It is an ultimate sentence." "It ends a person's life, and I think if you're there and you see what you do, the result of what you've done, then that gives you the ability to approach those cases," "I think, a lot more seriously." "'I don't keep track of wins and losses.'" "'I have not lost a death penalty case but, at this point, '" "I can't tell you figures." "I just don't keep up with them." "'You know, Guy in the morning, he's going to wake up 'in Glynn County Detention Center." "'He's going to wake up in his orange jumpsuit." "'Then they're going to let him change into his suit 'and the tie and the jacket." "'Then they're going to bring him out into the courtroom 'before the jury's in there, then they'll sit him at the table.'" "They wanted him to wear a suit, so I have bought him some suits to wear." "First men's suits I've ever bought in my entire life." "First time he ever wore a suit, as a matter of fact." "All rise for the jury, please." "They didn't really tell us what might happen or what we were going to do." "They just kind of threw us in there." "The first impression I had about him was clean cut." "Person you could walk next to at a grocery store and think nothing of." "It could be my brother." "It could be, you know, my best friend." "I have a son about his age, so it was kind of, that kind of stuff just made it hard for me." "I wanted to believe that he was innocent, you know." "I couldn't believe that somebody could do that, so just in my, like, heart, you know, I thought "Surely he's innocent"." "What was your first impression of him?" "In my opinion, Guy Heinze Jr has a stoned, kind of hollow face." "No remorse, no feelings." "He was just for him, you know, and that's what struck me." "Good afternoon, ladies and gentleman." "As the judge said," "I'm John Johnson." "I am a special assistant district attorney," "I work for... the district attorney, Jackie Johnson." "The defendant in this case is charged with eight counts of mass murder." "This evidence is circumstantial evidence and by that I mean there is no video tape of what happened inside that trailer." "'It's like a parent going into a kitchen' and seeing cookie crumbs on the counter and the cookie jar's been opened into, they didn't witness the crime, there's no evidence, no video tape of it and then they see their child, you know," "in another room standing there with cookie crumbs all over his face." "That's circumstantial evidence that that child took the cookies and ate them and so, you have to prove those individual facts to lead you, to lead a jury to the one conclusion 'that this defendant is the only person who could have done it.'" "Not one person in Glynn County, not one person in Mclntosh County, not one person in Pierce County, Brantley, Charlton, not one person's DNA was in that house that the police confirmed, except this defendant." "This defendant, in a period of time over two hours, three hours beat members of his family to death with the barrel end of a shotgun, you'd be able to conclude that from the evidence in this case." "This case actually starts in the middle, because that's when the police officers first get called out to Lot 147, New Hope Trailer Park." "'You have to drive into the New Hope Trailer Park, 'you go down a little ways and then, there's a little two-path road 'that goes off to the right and you cut off between some beautiful 'oak trees and you come to Lot 147," "'which is a trailer in that park.'" "At about 8.18, eight o'clock in the morning, Margaret Orlinski was up and she sees the defendant in this case drive up through her window, drive up to 147, it's about eight o'clock in the morning," "a little after eight o'clock." "...the evidence that you give to the court shall be the truth," " the whole truth and nothing but the truth?" " I do." " Take your seat." "What do you recall?" "I went outside and Guy was out there screaming and yelling, saying, "My whole family's dead, my whole family's dead"," ""you've got to call the police, call the police."" " Did you call 911?" " Yes." " And is that you on that call?" " Yes." "DIALLING TONE" "'What's going on, ma'am?" "'There's ah, Guy has just came home and his whole family is dead, 'he's pretty hysterical, I can't understand..." " 'I haven't gone over there yet." " OK." "'This is, this is Guy, I don't know what his last name is, 'he, he's freaking out." " 'Here, here." "Talk to this." " I just got home and my whole family's dead." "'OK, tell me what's going on, sir." "'I got, I just got home just now and everybody's dead." " 'Who?" " My daddy's dead..." "'How many people are there?" "Your dad, who else is there?" "'My dad, my, my, my uncle and my cousins." "'OK." " It looks like they've been beaten to death, I don't know." "'I don't know what to do, man." "'OK." "Just stay on the line with me, OK?" "'I got to call my brother, I got to call my brother." "'OK, well, you need to stay on the phone with us." "'I got to tell him his dad's dead, his dad's dead." "'All right, well, calm down because we've got 'to figure out what's going on, OK?" " 'Yes, yes." " You've got to move, buddy.'" "'I didn't like it.'" "I felt uncomfortable listening to it." "It was heartbreaking almost." "'Where is my dad?" "'" "'It felt like it was genuine, I felt there was a lot of grief, '" "I felt like, "Wow, this guy has just found his family murdered,"" "so I felt, er, I felt that was very strong in his favour." "'When you came in the house, what did the house look like?" "'It looks like a fucking murder scene!" "'" "He was kind of, a, kind of smart aleck... towards the operator, who was obviously trying to figure out what was going on and he was, he snapped back." "When I made my way through the house, it appeared that everyone had been shot, erm... that was my first take on it when I checked on everyone inside." "So what did you ask him?" "Er, if there was any guns in the house, not sure if whoever had done this had found them, had used one of them or anything like that." "And what was his response to you at that time?" "Er, he told me about two shotguns that were inside the house." "What did he say?" "Er, there's a 20-gauge pump shotgun and a 16-gauge single-shot shotgun." "He told me that the 16-gauge was in the trunk of his Mercury Coupe." "Where did he say he had gotten that from?" "Er, the bedroom." "And did he tell you why he did that?" "His words were that it was hot, meaning stolen." "Did you know where the 16-gauge shotgun is?" "There was supposed to be two weapons." "The butt that of the 20-gauge shotgun is at the head of Russell Toler Senior, the barrel is missing." "The long cylinder, blunt object is not anywhere in the house or has not otherwise been found." "'The weapon that was found missing a barrel, that missing 'barrel was used to kill everybody, you can at least argue that." "'And the autopsy doctor is the only person 'who can present that information." "'Doctor Donaghue was the person who did all eight autopsies." "'This is a death penalty case so you have to show er, that the, 'that really this was an outrageous type killing.'" "Do you have a preference as to where we start?" "I have no preference." "'Going into the trial, I felt that there would probably be 'some things that I might see or I might hear 'that could be a little bit disturbing.'" "It was definitely extremely graphic erm," "I'll tell you what I tried to do during that time is try to think of the pictures that I was seeing as not real people and I know that sounds strange, because they are real people." "Who all lived in that trailer?" "OK, there's me, my dad, my uncle, my cousin Michael, my cousin Russell Junior, my cousin Michelle, my cousin Chrissie, her boyfriend Joe and Brenda, my aunt Brenda." " Brenda's your aunt?" " Yeah." "Did you have an occasion to perform an autopsy on Brenda Falagan?" "Yes, I did." "38 evidences of external injury." " Sorry, how many?" " 38." "Can we have these lights turned off, please?" "On the left margin of the tongue, there was a laceration with haemorrhage, this is frequently due to blows to the jaw that trapped the tongue between the teeth." "Pretty gruesome, very gruesome, very gruesome." "And I've seen, that's worse than what I've seen them even in the military." "On the thenar eminence of the palm of the left hand, there was a slanting laceration, these injuries on the hands maybe her raising her hand to defend herself." "'It showed maybe too much of a person, but you had to show it' to realise what happened, you know, what went on." "Er, there were 48 injuries on the external surface of the body of Michelle Toler." "Sir, could you detail those for us, please?" "The body was that of a young white female weighing 115 pounds and appeared the stated age of 15 years." "On the proximal phalanx of the anterior right index finger, there is erm... a laceration, zero point two inches, the fourth and fifth left metacarpal bones of the hand this area, the underlying bones were fractured, the metacarpal bones." "As far as her mouth and teeth are concerned, can you describe what you observed?" "Many, many interior teeth are fractured and loose." "We couldn't turn this off or just change the channel if we were scared of something we were seeing, we had to sit there and face our fear and actually see the actual pictures and the what, this was real life," "this had, you know, it happened down the street from where my, my grandparents live." "Let's talk about the injuries to Mr Toler's head and face." "All right, in this case, there were 36 evidences of injury." "There are multiple comminuted skull fractures." "Again, the skull is broken into multiple pieces." " On each different victim..." " They were similar." "...they were all very similar injuries." "'And to have to listen to it over and over and over for...' through eight of them." "I think it took two days to listen to all of it." "Yeah, it did take two days to listen to all the injuries." "Mr Toler Senior died of cranial cerebral injuries, injuries to the skull and brain due to blunt trauma." "Mr Toler Junior died of cranial cerebral injuries to the skull." "Chrissy Toler died of cranial cerebral injuries due to blunt trauma." "Did you have an occasion to perform an autopsy on Guy Heinze Senior?" "Er, yes, I did." "There were 22 evidences of external injury." "There were 17 internal injuries, there was extensive fractures of the right side of the skull from the front..." "'Most of the time, when there were pictures around his father, '" "Mr Heinze would look down erm, he couldn't look at things er, they obviously affected him emotionally and, and you could see that emotion on him." "'He was without a father, er..." "I felt compassion for, for Mr Heinze.'" "There were multiple basal skull fractures." "This is significant because these take a tremendous amount of force to create and the skull becomes deformed." "Because you usually only see these kinds of injuries in an automobile accidents or when people fall out of buildings." "I kept watching him and he wasn't looking up, he looked down, so I felt like, "Well, he's avoiding looking at it"" ""and that way he's not going to show any emotion."" "I just wish he would have at least paid attention or watched." "A matter of fact, he just hang his head down and grinned a little bit, you know it's, he didn't say nothing." "I just thought that maybe it was like because it happened" " so long ago maybe he just kind of..." " Had coped with it." "Yeah, he, that's how he learned to cope and maybe he had already got out his anger or hurt or frustration, you know, whatever out." "Are you able to say whether or not the injuries as to each of these eight people are consistent one with the other?" "Yes, they are." "Are they consistent with the barrel of a gun?" "The barrel, the barrel of the gun is..." "certainly fits the pattern here." "Are you aware of a situation where one person has killed eight or nine people?" "Yes." "I, in 1887, a man by the name of Tom Woolfolk killed his entire family, his father, his stepmother, six siblings and an aunt... with an axe." "Thank you." "Your witness." "If I had to ask you if you know of an incident that's comparable to the killing of eight people in a single mobile home with nobody tied up, with four people in one bedroom, two in another, two in the den," "your answer would be no, you know of no comparable case." "That's correct." "OK." "I just wanted to be clear." " You're released, Doctor, thank you so much." " Thank you." " Have a good day." "You didn't even eat your sandwich." "Looking at them autopsy photos and I thought about my dad and my uncle in them, in a million years I would never expected that would be their legacy." "That's how people will remember them, people will remember them as the people who got killed in that trailer in New Hope." "They won't remember any of the good things they've done in their life, all they will remember is those are the people that got beat to death in that trailer in New Hope and that's their legacy, that's their life story." "That's the stamp that's been placed on their life." "I don't want that to be my stamp." "I don't want this to be, "Aw, that's that kid whose brother "got accused of killing his family."" "I don't want that to be my stamp." "I want my stamp on life to mean something more than that." "'Prosecution said that an angry Heinze spent two to three 'hours beating his family one at a time with the barrel of a shot gun, 'but his defence says that's just not the case." "'Testimony continues tomorrow.'" "This is not a case where we're arguing something we don't believe." "You know, the evidence just isn't there and we're going to point that out to the jury and we're going to try to get them to understand the reason evidence is not there is because Guy didn't do it." "Nothing compares to this crime scene." "'And we want the jury to be thinking - how in the heck, 'could one person have done this?" "'" "Could you state your name for the record, please?" "My name is Michael Knox." "I'm actually a forensic consultant," "I have my own business where I er, consult about crime scenes and traffic accidents and things like that." "'From a stand point of physical evidence this is, there's none, ' there's not that there's not much or there's only a little, there's nothing that, that puts him in that scene at the time of the murders that happened," "so you have really no physical evidence at all to tie him to these crimes." "I think we got this case what, January 2012, and it took us a good four or five months before we really understood what was occurring here." "What we find with a lot of police departments is that they're actually just almost sightseers, they're coming in here and they're picking up what they can see but they're not really searching for that hidden evidence" "and there's a lot of hidden evidence here that was overlooked." "One of the biggest things that we saw out of this was the fact that it was very clear that this was not carried out by one person alone." "This is where er..." "Russell Toler Senior came to final rest, this is where he was finally killed." "Russell Toler Senior, he resisted quite a bit and moved around through that bedroom a significant amount and there's blood splatter there that shows him getting attacked from two different sides." "There's directions of force here that are different, this spatter indicates that he's being beaten pretty much straight down over his head, but we have spatter from this side that has a directional force coming this way." "So either the one person that's attacking him is running around and getting him from different sides or the more likely answer is you have at least two people there." "This is, er, the middle bedroom where Brenda Falagan was killed." "She was killed in bed as she's sleeping, but you notice that there's no blood spatter, there's no impact spatter on this wall to her left side or on the wall above her head." "The reason for that is that this pillow was over her face while she's beaten, which of course, requires that you're striking her with one hand while holding the pillow with your other hand, but she also has transfer blood on her left arm." "If you look here, at her left wrist, you can clearly see transfer blood in the shape of fingers, so now you have a scenario where a person has to be trying to hold her arm down," "cover her face and inflict injuries, all at the same time." "'I don't know much about that kind of field' and so, it was almost like he was like a teacher." "Russell Toler Junior, there's evidence of him being grabbed by his ankles, you can see a handprint in blood, somebody's got him by the legs, pulling on his legs, this is occurring, he's also getting beaten, er, which is again" "indicators that this is multiple people doing this, not one person." "It's definitely difficult to see that many people beat in the situation that they were and think that one person could do it." "How many perpetrators in total would have been involved in the murders?" "I would say that you're looking at probably a number around five that would have taken in order to carry this out." "That, that's your analysis, that's your opinion, right?" " Yes, yes..." " Based on your...?" "Based upon all my knowledge, experience and training education in this area, yes." "'This is the crime scene of your career, this is not the kind of 'crime scene that you do the best you can do on, this is the one where you 'get the very best crime scene people you can find wherever you have" "'to get them from' in order to manage this crime scene, erm, and instead, there's just so much stuff that was done wrong, evidence that's missed." "All of these bodies should have been processed for finger prints and they weren't, so that evidence is lost forever." "There is some clothing in, in one of the bathrooms that had dripped blood on it that they photographed." "But they never collected any of it and the fact is that none of the victims were ever in that bathroom." "If it's not Guy Heinze's DNA, then there's somebody else out there that's involved in this crime and that was never even looked at, they never even collected it, much less tested any of it." "If I decide a theory and I say this is my theory of what happened and" "I've got that theory planted in my mind when I get started, my tendency is going to be to seek out evidence that tends to prove my theory." "And it's going to tend," "I'm going to look for things that tend to establish that I'm right and I'm going to tend to ignore thing that..." "which show that I'm wrong." "So basically, what you're saying is that the Glynn County Police Department have, hasn't got enough sense to handle..." "No, it's, you're, it's not about having sense to do it, it's about having experience, I mean it'll be like you standing up here and trying this case, if you were a brand-new attorney and never tried a case" "before, you wouldn't be standing here trying a case of this magnitude." "I guess it depends on how good I am." "Ladies and gentleman, that's it for today." "We'll see you at 8.15 in the morning." "I think the case is already falling apart and they know it, they know it." "Well, Mike you have done a fantastic job so far." "I mean I don't know." "That's how I'm reading the jury right now is that we've got them on the police fucked up this investigation and don't give a shit about Guy's rights and they're disgusted with Glynn County." "Come up!" "'Heinze is accused of committing one of the worst mass 'murders in state history." "'Heinze faces the death penalty if convicted." "'Testimony resumes in the morning.'" "Come on here!" "'Where's Tyler been staying?" "'He's been staying with his friend across town, 'sort of, I guess my direction might be a little off.'" "He's been OK except for yesterday, he got upset when they was discussing his dad and his, the expert witness was discussing how he was beat." "You've got to just be strong, you know, I mean my grandma..." "I have to be strong for my grandma because she, she puts on a hard face and a smile, but there's a lot of emotion in there and she's, she's easily brought to an emotional state." "I mean, we've had downs and we have ups, but no matter what, we have to keep that relationship for the rest of her life or my life." "And I mean, I'm just going to have to do what I have to do to make that possible." "Just being mature around her and prove to her that" "I am capable of growing up and doing better than what she knows me to do." "He has no family left, I think all he has left is his grandma and his brother, you know, and if his brother gets convicted, he don't have his brother any more." "He's had a tough life, I believe he, he has some good coming his way soon." "Hopefully, it's his brother, it starts with his brother." "'It's Monday October 21st, good morning, everyone," " 'I'm Kim Getsby." " And I'm Dave Kartun and we're set to begin week 'two of the Guy Heinze murder trial this morning in Glynn County." "'Let's talk motive." "Days before he was murdered, the suspect's dad 'told his family he had just won a 25,000 settlement, 'my feeling is when you have that level of rage directed 'at family members, that's personal." "Everybody debate the issue," "'I want to know what you think." "'There is something going on there 'and I'm going to say this as a complete guess." "'I bet that either he owes them money or they owe him money 'for whatever drug dealing was going on there and either they...'" "'No clear motive was ever established 'but the prosecutor suggested that drugs...'" "'A clear motive has yet to have been identified," "'Heinze has of course pleaded not guilty to all charges.'" "Do you have occasions to discuss with Guy Heinze Junior any issues that he might have had with his father having money and not spending it the way he wanted it spent?" " Yes." " Tell us about that." "He came to me and he was talking about the money thing, he said that, erm, his daddy was going to give money to Joe for a swimming pool and Rusty for a trailer and he said, "Man, my daddy ain't never done nothing for me and my brother"," ""man, I'm going to kill him, I'm going to kill them all."" "I said, "Hey, man, you can't be doing that, man."" "You know, there are people who will say, "Oh, I'm just going to kill them people," and, and it means nothing," " was that the way it was said in this case?" " No, er..." " If you want proceed with cross examination, Mr Hamilton." " Thank you." "Mr Parker, if I understand, it was June, July or August when Mr Heinze started telling you about killing his family, right?" "He told me twice." " During that time frame?" " Right." " August 2009, correct?" " Right." "Would it surprise you if I told you that his last day of employment was in September of 2008?" "Maybe, I don't know." "Why did you wait for a year to call law enforcement?" "No, no, no, no, no." "The truth of the matter is as you did hear about this crime, you saw it on TV and you read it in the paper, right?" "Everybody seen it on the news and read it in the paper..." "Including you." "It was a sensational crime and you saw an opportunity to sit in that witness stand and grab your 15 minutes of fame, isn't that right?" "I don't need fame, buddy, I'm a minister so therefore, I don't need that." "Where are you a minister, sir?" "I travel." "I speak down in Florida, southern North Georgia." " So you represent yourself as a man of God?" " Yes, I do." "What do you think about taking the oath, sir," " and raising your right hand?" " At this point, I'm going to object." "He's being argumentative with this witness, he's saying things that are improper and unprofessional to say in this court room and..." "Withdrawn, Your Honour." "I object to him stating a fact." "'The attorney had kind of gone at him to get him flustered.'" "I kind of thought it was a good tactic." "And he got the witness flustered." "Yeah, and got me flustered." "Yeah." "Right, sir, you can stand down." "'The witness said Guy wanted to kill his whole family 'and it's just a figure of speech, ' people say that all the time but now everything he's ever done in his life is being scrutinised, every comment he ever made when he was frustrated or angry" "and all that takes on like this totally new meaning." "I mean, I was mad at the DA the other day and I said I was going to stab him in the face with my pen and I thought, "OK, I guess I'm going to be charged with murder now."" "Um..." "I know my life wouldn't stand up to that kind of scrutiny." " I do believe he's guilty." " What makes you think he's guilty?" "Cos he's a crackhead." "That's what crackheads do." "I heard he killed his whole family." "He was on drugs." "It's a far-fetched story." "The police didn't do the right work, so far, what they say on the news, anyway." "Personally, I think they've got the right man." "I think it's pretty... pretty clear cut." "'How important is an alibi?" "'Extremely important I, I feel in a case.'" "I was waiting for some type of reason of why he wouldn't have done it." "OK, to Barrington Park?" "Yeah, Barrington Park." "Right." "Can you tell us your name, please?" "Thomas L Williams." "Night of the 28th, morning of the 29th 2009, where were you living at the time?" "I was living at Barrington Park." "Down on the Old Mahole River on Mclntosh County side." "Who was living there with you?" "My wife." "OK." "And what were you all living in?" " A camper." " OK, and how many roads are there into Barrington Park?" "I think, but one road." " OK, dirt road?" " Yes, ma'am." "OK." "And where was your camper?" "Behind some trash cans right there, right when you come in the park." "OK." "So if a person's coming in on the one road in," " would they see your camper?" " Yes, ma'am." "And you didn't see no other vehicles there or anything?" "'He had gone to Barrington Park, he had stayed there for several hours." "'The defendant says he had seen no-one there.'" "Was there anybody else at the park that night?" "Yes, ma'am, there was some people camping about here, some people camped out here and some people camped out here, at that end of the park." "Was that the time frame in which he was killing his family erm, or arguing with them or, or doing whatever he did?" "That park is approximately eight acres." "Yeah." "Somebody could get out and hide." "But that's as far as looking across the park, you can see everything in the park." "You're certainly not in a position to say what somebody saw or did not see that night, are you?" "No." "They are drilling it into our heads this one way, and the other side is drilling it into our heads this way." " Constantly, all day long..." " Just like a whirlwind." "...entered through here, we passed by the first victim right here." "You want to fall asleep, being so tired." "This is like..." "You start early that morning, getting up at five o'clock - we do - and we take a shower, get into the van and escorted." "And then could leave there eight o'clock at night, go get something to eat and back to bed." "That's for two weeks." "This is Michelle." "You're dealing with a lot of emotions and stress that you're not used to dealing with in your life." "Unless you've been on a jury," "I don't think you can ever imagine the stress that is there." "When we got back to the hotel, which was late, every night about 9.30," "I would read a book just to take my mind off of everything." "That's the only way I slept." "There's many nights that I just sat there and stared." "'Today, jurors will hear final evidence in the trial 'of a South Georgia man accused of killing...'" "'Guy Heinze Jr could be sentenced to death if he's found guilty...'" "All right." "Er... what are those?" "Erm, these are a pair of khaki shorts, I've describe them, um..." "'When we get to the crime scene, he's wearing those shorts." "'Underneath, he was wearing silver and black gym shorts what was found 'was the blood of three different people from that house." "'There was a big stain from one of the girls, ' so you know, how does that blood get there, is an argument you can make." "If he's not there when the killings are, have occurred, how does the blood from one of the girls get on there when he's wearing pants over those clothes when the police get there?" "Here's the blood." "Chrissy Toler's blood." "He wears these all day long, all night long, this is his underwear, everything else gets changed but this." "OK." "OK." "The testimony and showing the blood on the shorts was the state's strongest piece of evidence that supported their theory that he killed the family, disposed of all these other bloody clothes he would have had to have been wearing," "he cleaned himself up, but he had forgotten to get rid of this one pair of shorts that still had blood on them." "I think the state wanted the shorts to be their smoking gun evidence," "I don't think it, it rose to that level, I think it cast a suspicion." "All of us wanted to be able to just put this nice little puzzle together and piece it together and say, "OK, this is exactly how it happened," but you couldn't." "That's a perfect world." "If they fit together like a puzzle so perfect, they wouldn't have needed us as a jury." "The evidence is closed, we are now ready to proceed with closing arguments." "It's their job to convince me during the closing arguments." "They're lawyers, their job is to convince, for the defence, they just want to convince me just a one little smidgen that it, that he might not be guilty, could it be possible that he's not guilty?" "And that's all they've got do, that's all they've got to prove to me." "On the other side, the prosecution has to convince me and has to make me 100% sure that there is no, no other way than for him to be involved in this crime." "He's hollering that his family has been beaten to death, police officers, they went in the house and thought that they had been shot." "Out of his mouth." "He was hollering it over the telephone to the 911 operator." "'Can you tell what, how they were, how they were killed?" "'It looks like they've been beaten to death, I don't know, man." " OK.'" ""My family's been beaten to death."" "Don't presume anything." "You heard his voice on that 911 tape, you heard how he sounded, you heard the desperation in his voice." "'How many people are there?" "Your dad, who else is there?" "'My dad, my, my, my uncle," " 'my cousins, I don't know what to do, man!" " OK.'" "He was so traumatised, defence wants you to believe, and yet he had enough in his mind to go in the house, go in the master bedroom, step across Russell Toler Senior and all this blood, get a shotgun out of the closet" "and put it in the trunk of his car, why is it in the trunk?" "He says it was stolen." "We have this." "Official document registered, we know that a family member in that household owned that gun." "It wasn't stolen, it was not stolen." "God gave me a gift and that gift is to be able to take a case and go to court and try it erm, at one point of time in my life," "I was going to be a Baptist preacher erm, the Vietnam War interfered with that and now, I consider myself to have been directed by God to this line of work and, and to basically do my preaching in front of 12 jurors." "They have the gall to come in here and accuse the police officers in this case of a criminal conspiracy against this defendant." "That's what they do, because they can't fight the evidence in this case." "The state is not looking for the truth, they are continuing to perpetuate this fraud that Glynn County Law Enforcement has committed on this community by rushing to judgment, by arresting this man, by failing to collect evidence" "and failing to diligently investigate this case." "'It's an adversarial system, 'you're looking for the weakness to exploit and then you see it and you 'run with it and you exploit and you milk it for everything it is worth.'" "We have not come close to proving beyond reasonable doubt that Guy killed his family." "People testify to what they see." "Mr Parker testified about what he heard, what was said." "He said, "Man, I'm going to kill them, I'll kill them all."" "Did he get it wrong?" "Well, he was a year off." "There are some things that you hear that you go, "Oh, wow!" "OK, good"," ""there's no way he could have done this!", and then you know, it could be as early as five minutes later, you know, when the rebuttal comes up, you go," ""Oh, man." "OK, well, that, that poked a hole in that whole theory."" "It was very confusing." "I was confused probably the majority of the time." "One argues for and one argues against, and that's the way you weigh it." "The death penalty is very simply retribution, it's Old Testament justice." "Help Mr Heinze, don't let them do this to him." "Do what's right because that's the definition of justice." "Do your duty." "Do justice, then you would have done the right thing." "Your Honour." "Ladies and gentleman, whatever your verdict is, it must be unanimous as to each count, that is agreed to by all." "All the 12 of you can now retire to the deliberation room." "All rise for the jury, please." "'Until you get into that deliberation room, 'you really don't feel the pressure." "'Our first thing we were charged with was to select a foreman.'" "I end up being the foreman of the jury, definitely something that I took very seriously." "'There were some very strong personalities on that jury, 'so we knew going in there, 'at least I did, we were never going to have 12 people that the first 'time we took a vote that we'd all raise our hands and be in unison.'" "You go through so much, a lot of tension and, you know, and you've got every person that's got their own opinion, which is good, you know, that's real good." "'We started deliberations that first afternoon 'and then towards the evening, we decided that's when we were going 'to take our first vote, after we'd had a chance to hear' what everyone said and at that time, we were nine-three." "'We talked through it a little bit that night, '" "I think I even said, "Of the nine, is there anybody here that is"" ""so strong on there that no matter what's laid in front of you," ""you cannot change your opinion?", and there was one person that said." ""Yeah, that they were OK." Then, when we went, then I said," ""Of you three, is there anybody here that no matter what is presented"" ""in front of you, you cannot change your opinion?"" "And one person said yes on that end." "So at that point, I said, "We've got a problem."" "Not much else we can do this morning." "We are waiting for the jury to tell us our client's fate." "The jury gets to decide how long they want to stay and then, they can come back tomorrow morning at whatever time they get ready to come back at and start again and it's really in their hands at this point erm, or at their mercy." "'After 17 hours of deliberations, ' the jury was split on a verdict, nine to three, and now deliberations will continue later this morning." "'It's going to be another long day here at the Glynn County Courthouse, ' as deliberations in the Guy Heinze Junior trial must start anew." " Good morning!" " Good morning." "Well, the jury has come back this morning and we're waiting to see if they will reach a verdict today." "Usually, they come back and convict our clients in like an hour, so this is good." "This is a good sign, we're all..." "I think it probably means that we have a jury who cares and who wants to make the decision that's right for them." "'It was a very emotional deliberation room, there was a lot of stress.'" "There were definitely people that were, that were struggling just with the magnitude of, of the decision that was..." "that was at hand." "We were all just emotionally, physically drained, and when we started erm, kind of arguing that's when I kind of broke down and I was just wishing that we, erm, could just get along." "I just don't know what it is that they are fighting with each other about at this point." " Yeah, they haven't even voted again." " Right." "I mean as far as we know it's still nine-three and we don't know who the nine are, we don't know who the three are and we don't know what the dispute is that they're having back in the jury room." "I wonder if it's nine to 3 to acquit." "I'm just having a hard time believing nine people think he's guilty." "I just can't buy that." "Yeah, I completely agree, Jerry." "But it's disturbing that we have a couple of jurors crying, erm." "There has been this total breakdown in their group, you know, and they don't have anybody getting through this except for each other, it's like you know, when families start falling apart." "'Some notes started coming out from the jury room' about a lot of disagreement and argument among the jurors, it was particularly aimed at one juror, number 152 who was very contentious with some of the other jurors, we knew that" "at times, erm, some of the jurors had been seen crying and upset." "So we don't know what the hell they're doing." "It was becoming more and more likely they would never reach a verdict." "Several possible outcomes here, a death penalty, also an acquittal could set Guy Heinze free, they're also looking at the possibility of a hung jury which means both sides would have to start all over again." "In the meantime the jury..." "What we were worried about is if we had to have another trial that the state would have the opportunity to fix all the mistakes that they had made in this trial, more than likely they probably wouldn't put Ronald Parker back up to testify, more than" "likely they would have responses to a lot of the things that we had raised about criticising the investigation that had been done." "There came a point where it appeared to all of us I think that a hung jury was probably going to be the outcome." "They hadn't reached a unanimous verdict which it has to be and so you have to make some decisions at that point." "In a surprise move this morning, the judge dismissed a juror, brought an alternate back in and ruled that they start the deliberations over again." "So we basically started back from scratch..." "We actually pulled out evidence again - not only did we go through everyone's thought process again but we pulled through evidence, we read the charge again." "We reached a point." "I think Jim said did we want to, erm... take a vote now and everybody just kind of looked around, we looked at her and said, "How do you feel being the new person"" ""coming in?" She said, "Erm, you know pretty good,"" "and so we just all took a vote." "And we were all together." "We were all together at that point and we were like..." "We were kind of pleased." "We all kind of looked at each other like, well, now what do we do?" "You know, wow, we're done, we're here." "When they all went up it was something else, I can't explain what kind of feeling it was but, yeah, I guess something else." "Total emotion, there was total emotion, when we had that final erm, verdict, I think everyone just let loose, everyone just, the... the sense of... "Oh, my goodness, erm, it's done!" "Oh. my"" ""goodness we, we've reached a verdict."" "We actually were at a point where we had a..." "We've got to turn something in, we've done this." "I need to know whether I'm going to have to go the rest of my life without my brother or with my brother cos" "I mean I've lost my mum and I've lost my dad and I've lost my uncle and I've lost my cousins, I've lost a lot of friends." "I mean, so I need to know who I've got in my corner." "I got all my rocks in a bag of not guilty, that's where my rocks are at you know, that's where my heart's at, that's where I've got planned and my plan's all involve Guy being" "out of jail." "So if he's guilty it's like, everything that I've thought up until this point is wrong, everything that I had planned, everything that I want to do, wrong." "I have to start all over." "And I, I mean I don't think I can do it." "I don't know, I'm not saying" "I'm going to go kill myself, but if Guy gets found guilty, I don't expect great things for myself I really don't." "I know it's bad to say but..." "Just going to be hard for me to turn it around." "I've been holding it together good after mamma died, and I've been holding it together good after they got killed, I haven't really had a major breakdown and today could be the day that I fall off." "CAR RADIO PLAYS" "♪ Death she must have been your will" "♪ A bone beneath the reaper's veil... ♪ With your voice my belly sunk... ♪" "Juror number 3." "Verdict." "Jury said come on in." "I was juror number 4 in the Guy Heinze trial." ""Demon Host" By Timber Timbre" "I am juror number 32 of the Guy Heinze trial." "Are you able to cut the 6.30 package for 6?" "Three, two, one." "Juror number 8." "I was juror number 11 in the Guy Heinze Jr trial." "All rise for jury, please." "Foreman, have you reached a verdict?" "Yes, sir." "Is that verdict unanimous?" "Yes, sir." "In the state of Georgia versus Guy William Heinze, we the jury find as follows." "Count one on the charge of malice murder as alleged and count one of the indictment, we find the defendant guilty." "Count two of the charge of malice murder as alleged and count two of the indictment we find the defendant guilty." "Count three on the charge of malice murder as alleged and count three of the indictment, we find the defendant guilty." "Count four on the charge of malice murder as alleged and count four of the indictment we find the defendant guilty." "Count five on the charge of malice murder as alleged and count five of the indictment we find the defendant guilty." "Count six on the charge of malice murder as alleged and count six of the indictment we find the defendant guilty." "Fuck." "Count seven on the charge of malice murder we find the defendant guilty." "Count eight on the charge of malice murder we find the defendant guilty, so say we all on this the 25th day of October 2013 signed by foreperson." "This is a burning place, man, it's a burning place, dude, what goes around comes around." "Tyler tell me what you think right now, are you mad?" "Are you mad?" "Man, this ain't justice, this ain't right." "Everybody sat in that court, you all sat through the same trial I sat through." "All of you all sat there and heard what you all heard." " I didn't see it coming." " You never know what the jury is going to do right." "Unbelievable." "There wasn't one thing that I said that's it, that you can't get past this, there wasn't one thing that did that but there were multiple things." "I was really disappointed that there was not a good alibi." "Someone would have seen him come or go at some point." "The 911 call." "When he was screaming on the phone that my family had been beaten to death." "You can't take it back, how do you know they were beaten to death?" "First people that came in there - police - they thought they were shot." "I think the gun was another big thing cos he said that the gun was stolen, it really wasn't stolen." "For him to lie to say it was stolen." "There was lots of holes and lies and things that didn't add up." "We all said walking into the deliberation - if we're deciding whether the police department made mistakes it's an open and shut case but that's not what we're here to decide." "There were too many things that I just couldn't answer." "I think the blood on the clothing was one thing our jury couldn't really get past and that was..." "That was the main thing to me..." "was he had on gym shorts, he didn't get the blood stains that morning when he showed up to the scene, that he had to have been there beforehand at some point." "At that point, the sentencing phase, you were ready to do it, were you?" "We were definitely ready for, erm, myself included were definitely ready to, to go to the next phase." "I definitely prepared myself through prayer," "I'm a very religious person you know," "I ultimately feel that... that we have an ultimate judge and we will have to answer to him one day, but we are also required to abide by the laws of the land and the laws of the state of Georgia, erm, obviously" "you know, the death penalty is something that is on the table." "Ladies and gentleman prior to your deliberation this morning, parties, that is both sides entered into an agreement." "That agreement was the, the dismissal of one of your fellow jurors and the agreement that the state's removal of the death penalty as an option of punishment." "It's almost a, a sense of relief, a sense of relief that, that we, that we weren't going to have to make that decision about the man's life, that it was taken out," "that part of it at least was taken out of our hands." "I felt like I was, erm..." "Something you know, was took from us that to finish up what we were doing." "I mean we'd done all this through two weeks, we should make our own mind up about what he would be sentenced to." "They won't be able to kill him..." "That's what we've done, we've insulated him from death." "That's my big brother, in my heart of hearts I thought when I left Georgia, I thought Guy was coming home with us." "He was going to get to be there for Christmas, Thanksgiving... and I had that in my mind you know, I had that set like, it was there, like that's going to happen, I know it's going to happen" "and it's not happening." "I was wrong." "Welcome to Death Penalty Clinic at the University of Houston Law Centre." "You will be working on real life cases." "Police are searching for a prison guard's killer." "I don't think I deserve to die for something I didn't do." "If he found a way to weasel his way out of the death penalty, that would not be right." "You are their last and only hope." "I really want to save his life, if it's possible."