"Woman:" "Whether to approve or deny the application." "They're the decision-makers." "And you will receive a copy of my proposed recommendation" "And can attend that board meeting" "And present your information directly to them." "With regard to this proceeding," "Basically, there are four elements" "That I have to..." "Receive information regarding..." "Everybody, let's get out of here." "Now!" "Watch the electricity line!" "Reporter:" "All that I can see," "It looks like part of the building" "Has been blown away." "We'll have to bank around the other side" "So I can get a better view of it." "The explosion, though, went off around 9 a.M.," "And we could feel the explosion in the newsroom of channel 9" "At least five miles from downtown." "Anchor:" "As the chopper goes around the side of the federal building..." "Reporter:" "Jeez, wow!" "Anchor:" "Look at that shot." "It is absolutely incredible." "The side of the federal building has been blown off." "Jesse?" "Reporter:" "About a third..." "About a third of the building has been blown away." "This is just devastating." "Man:" "That morning, I was not in my office." "I was at a fundraiser about 30 miles away." "We had a 9:00 start," "When all of a sudden, my phone went off," "And I was told that there'd been some type of an explosion" "At the murrah building." "The greatest fear I have" "Is that we have casualties in the thousands." "At any one time, there could be" "A couple of thousand people in that building." "Man:" "I was assigned to the oklahoma city police tactical team" "At the time." "And we immediately started working our way" "Towards the building." "There were several vehicles" "On the north side of the building in a parking lot," "And all of them were burning." "The black smoke was billowing up." "When I walked up there, there was a hole in the ground" "About the size of a swimming pool" "That looked like about 30 feet in diameter" "And about seven, eight feet deep." "Just a big hole in the ground." "That's when it started really sinking in," "This had to be some kind of bomb." "Woman:" "When I first got there," "I could see people trapped on different floors," "And they needed to be rescued." "And so I started my way into the building." "I thought to myself," ""why oklahoma city?" ""It's a quiet place." ""Nothing happens here." "It's not supposed to happen here."" "Woman:" "Yeah, we'd always had threats." "You tell somebody," ""I'm sorry, but," you know," ""your claim's denied," or whatever," "And, yeah, and we'd get threats, but not..." "Not anything that we ever considered, you know, viable." "There has been a massive explosion" "At a federal building in oklahoma city, oklahoma." "It happened just a short time ago." "A large portion of that building has collapsed" "And fallen away from the rest of the building." "At the moment, we don't have any specific numbers" "On injuries or deaths," "But we can tell you that the situation is obviously serious." "Woman:" "I tried to put the building back in my mind," "Of, where would he be?" "If I have to dig for my son, where should I dig?" "And so, that's what I did." "I visualized the first floor, the second floor," "The childcare was here, his crib would be here," "And that's where I wanted to get to." "As I started to climb up the debris and the rubble," "I remember a man yelling," ""you can't go up there, it's too dangerous!"" "And I remember telling him, "our babies are in there!" "Our babies are in there!"" "I just kept saying, "our babies are in there."" "Woman:" "When I saw the building for the first time," "I just couldn't see" "How anybody could have survived any of that." "So at that point, I think my mind was thinking," ""my kids are gone."" "Man:" "I drove down there and met claudia." "We walked up to a perimeter" "And I asked a officer, I said," ""we have two, two babies in the daycare center." "Can I, can I go in?"" "Officer:" "Move back, move back, move back." "Move back, move back." "Jim denny:" "I could see people" "That are covered with blankets, towels, whatever," "That are gone." "And I'm praying that one of them is not a small child." "Man:" "I knew a lot of the people in the building." "I knew the d.E.A. Agents that were in the building," "I knew the atf agents that were in the building," "And those people were friends of mine." "I could not believe what had happened to all of them" "And how this could be." "How could somebody get to that state in their life" "Where they could be so angry and upset" "That they would do something like this?" "Man:" "Who started the war?" "And who was the aggressor?" "That's how I look at the murrah bombing." "To me, it wasn't a start of a war," "It was a counterattack." "The war had already been started." "You guys think you can be ruthless?" "Let's see how you like it when the..." "When the fight is brought to you." "If you continue with shit like ruby ridge and waco," "This is what's going to happen." "Man:" "Northern idaho." "It's a remote place, it's a predominantly white place," "And it's the kind of place" "Where everybody sort of minds their own business." "In the 1980s, a lot of extremist groups found a sanctuary there." "White power!" "Man:" "What do we need?" "All:" "White power!" "Man:" "One of those groups was the aryan nations." "Man:" "The aryan nations had established itself" "In hayden lake as a sort of headquarters of hate," "Radical right-wing hate." "Man:" "We the white race lost the war." "A plague known as jews won the war," "Infiltrated our bloodstream of our race" "In every country in which we reside." "Man:" "Richard butler, like many far-right people at the time," "Held that the federal government was in the hands of the jews." "And the only way to save america" "Was to assert your christian sovereignty," "Your white christian sovereignty." "Butler:" "Every major city in the united states is now non-white," "Following the catastrophic destruction of our race" "In the so-called civil war, or the war between the states." "America shall again become white and christian." "There'll be a lot of blood running one day." "I don't advocate it, I don't want it." "But it's going to come" "As sure as day follows night and night follows day." "Man:" "In the 1980s, in america," "The white race was becoming the minority race." "Racist groups used that as a calling card." ""Come join us, because the white race" "Is going to be driven to extinction."" "Man:" "The aryan nations attracted people" "From all walks of life who were, who were white," "All of them looking for someone to blame for the situation." "And they focused their anger on the federal government." "People like robert mathews." "Morlin:" "Robert mathews showed up at the aryan nations" "In the early 1980s." "And there, he met other young men like him," "Who thought that it was just talk." "It was no action." "Bob mathews said, "the time has come for action."" "You jews get the heck out of here!" "I didn't come all the way down here to hear you!" "Go over there!" "The words of Jesus christ..." "Man:" "Bob mathews wanted to start a revolution." "He saw the United States government" "As a complete and utter enemy, run by satanic jews," "That had to be destroyed." "Morlin:" "He had 12 or so other followers," "Most of whom he had met at the aryan nations," "And they decided" "That they would basically declare war on the u.S." "Man:" "As bob mathews was formulating a plan for his organization," "He discovered a book called the turner diaries," "Written by a racist named william pierce." "It was a fictional account of a group of patriots" "That came together in a very small number," "Much like what bob was planning to do," "And overthrow the United States government." "And as bob read this, he thought, "this is us."" "This is the plan we need to follow."" "Man: "unit 8 will secure a large quantity of explosives"," ""between five and ten tons." ""We will then drive" ""into the fbi building's freight receiving area," "Set the fuse, and leave the truck."" "Potok:" "The turner diaries culminates" "With these anti-government resisters" "Blowing up the fbi headquarters in washington, d.C." "It had this electrifying, energizing effect" "On all kinds of people on the radical right." "Man:" "The order is a small group, but a very formidable group," "And they start robbing banks, armored cars," "Kill whoever they had to kill." "They didn't care." "Manis:" "Their expertise grew week by week and month by month." "This was an organization that had taken real form" "And had real leadership and direction." "And then they formed an assassination squad" "To go to denver." "Radio announcer:" "You're listening to alan berg on koa." "You never shut up!" "I got fed up with you!" "You never let me get a word edgewise... get out of here!" "Potok:" "The jewish talk show host alan berg" "Had angered the radical right" "By essentially mocking them on his radio show." "If you're not a christian, you're un-american." "Is that your point, sir?" "Man:" "That's right!" "Good point, sir!" "Noble:" "He spoke out against the right wing" "And the christian patriot movement," "Yeah, and members of the order got fed up." "Levitas:" "Alan berg was shot to death in the driveway of his home." "It was essentially domestic terrorism." "It was born-and-bred americans inspired by racism," "Anti-semitism, and anti-government ideology." "Manis:" "The fbi really didn't know who these individuals were." "But a great break happened for us" "When bob mathews decided they're going to take down" "A brinks truck that's carrying" "Multiples of millions of dollars." "So they do." "A very brazen daylight robbery right out on a highway." "They take this thing down." "Bob mathews is in there, he's clearing out money," "And his pistol falls out of his waistband." "And we get that pistol." "Morlin:" "They convince some members of the order to surrender." "But mathews wouldn't surrender." "And after a two- or three-day standoff," "The fbi moves in on the cabin and a gunfight occurs." "Manis:" "I'm just a little ways from the house," "And the bullets are hitting" "Right at the trees and the brush line where I'm at." "You know, he's got plenty of weapons," "He's got thousands of rounds of ammunition." "He was committed." "Man:" "The next evening, it was starting to get dark," "So we put in some illumination rounds," "And those rounds, one of them or so, caught fire," "And the building started to burn." "Manis:" "And then it was like firecrackers," "Just pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, going off everywhere," "With the cooking-off of the rounds." "At daybreak, I walked up to the remains of the house" "And saw a charred body there." "Noble:" "Mathews' death forced the movement, everybody," "To look at themselves:" ""am I really ready and willing to die for the cause?"" "Manis:" "The fbi was on high alert." "I mean, domestic terrorism now was top order." "And there was a massive amount of investigation and arrests" "Throughout the United States." "Morlin:" "By the mid-'80s," "The federal agencies had the lesson of the order," "So they knew some of the folks" "That had come out of the aryan nations" "Were doing bad things..." "They were committing crimes," "They were killing people." "So the feds were interested in, who's there," "And what are they doing," "And what are they planning on doing next?" "Levitas:" "Randy weaver was a person with white separatist beliefs" "Who moved his family from iowa to boundary county, idaho," "To a place called ruby ridge." "Morlin:" "They were 50 miles or so from the canadian border." "They had no electricity," "No running water, no indoor plumbing." "We're talking about a cabin" "Made by randy weaver and his wife" "On a mountaintop." "These are people that want to be left alone." "Walter:" "The weavers were deeply religious" "And they wanted to live in a style" "They believed was old testament christian." "They were really imagining this fortress," "This place where they could really separate themselves" "From a corrupt and dangerous world." "Man:" "I don't know that randy weaver knew" "At the time that they moved to ruby ridge" "That they would be so close to the aryan nations compound," "Which was just 60 miles south." "But they started showing up." "At first, it was purely social." "They attended family picnics, those kinds of things." "But as randy began to interact more with them," "He bought into the message, the anti-government message." "Butler:" "A movement is growing all over the world." "Good men are coming forth," "Men with iron wills" "Who are determined that their race is not going to die" "And become extinct." "Morlin:" "By the time randy weaver started showing up at the aryan nations," "It was just after the whole matthews episode." "And, unfortunately for randy weaver," "The feds were listening." "Levitas:" "They had lots of events there" "Designed to potentially recruit harder-core folks" "Into the compound," "And it was at one of those meetings" "That randy weaver was spotted by an undercover federal informant." "Morlin:" "This guy got next to randy weaver" "And learned that he was, you know, clearly a racist," "That he wanted to live his white separatist lifestyle" "In north idaho," "But that he was having trouble putting two nickels together," "And that he was interested in some income." "And one thing led to another," "And pretty soon, randy weaver agrees to saw off some shotguns." "Noble:" "In my opinion, the atf pretty much entrapped him" "Into making these shotguns illegal" "By cutting off too much of the barrel," "And then comes out and wants to arrest him over it." "Morlin:" "They figured, "if we arrest this guy" ""on federal firearms charges," ""maybe he can lead us to other people" "That are doing more dastardly things."" "They did think randy weaver could be flipped." "Botting:" "So they asked him to be an informant," "Which he immediately refused." "Randy weaver didn't trust the government" "And was absolutely not interested" "In being an informant." "However, he failed to appear for his next court appearance." "Walter:" "Once you don't show up for trial," "The case is assigned to the u.S. Marshals service." "And the u.S. Marshals service doesn't know" "Whether or not randy weaver was entrapped" "Or how those shotguns came about." "They just know they have a fugitive." "Botting:" "The marshals brought in their special surveillance team" "And they kind of skunked around the property" "Trying to find a location" "To take him into custody without a problem." "Man:" "Well, this is the approach from the east." "Morlin:" "One of the things that they decided to do" "Was to have motion-activated cameras" "Placed near the weaver cabin." "The tapes showed that randy weaver was there" "With his wife and his children and a man named kevin harris," "And that they frequently were armed." "They have to have been shaking their heads." ""What are we going to do?" ""We go up there, and he's going to shoot at us," "And we're going to shoot back."" "Botting:" "On the day of the shooting," "The marshals had a six-man team they divided into two elements," "And one element of three went up on the mountain" "To have a visual on the cabin itself." "The other element was on the ground, closer to the cabin," "When the weavers' dog caught the scent of the marshals" "And went after them." "All we know at that point was, there was a shootout." "Morlin:" "Who shot who first is still subject" "To, you know, interpretation," "But when it was all said and done, 14-year-old sammy weaver's dead, the dog's dead," "And so is federal marshal william degan," "Killed on the property of a white separatist." "The fbi had every reason to think," "When they're dealing with randy weaver," "They could be dealing with another bob mathews." "Walter:" "Because they believe that they are deploying into a firefight" "With a group of armed separatists" "Very much like the order," "The rationale is given that a surrender warning" "Doesn't need to be called out," "That that warning has already been given," "So agents can open fire as soon as they see any armed adult." "Well, the weavers are always armed." "Botting:" "I got there and there were trucks and jeeps" "And all kinds of vehicles, you know," "Even armored personnel carriers." "It was just overwhelming how much was happening" "And how many people were involved." "Morlin:" "Where we were," "At the roadblock, it was out of view" "Of where this base operation was occurring." "But there were, you know," "An assortment of law enforcement people" "Going across this little bridge." "Neighbors and friends of randy weaver" "And reporters from all over the country" "Started gathering there, trying to get information." "If we can tell you something, we will," "But most of it will all come out of washington, d.C." "Morlin:" "We were down a good two miles or so" "From where the actual cabin was." "So we had no clue as to what the fbi had in mind." "Walter:" "As morning dawns on ruby ridge," "A team of ten fbi agents surround the cabin." "These are snipers who've been trained to, you know," "To hit a dime from 200 meters." "Randy weaver, kevin harris, and sara weaver" "Decide they're going to go out and check on sam weaver's body." "They make their way out with their weapons to the shed" "Where samuel has been taken by the family," "When a shot rings out." "Randy is hit in the shoulder." "They run back to the house and another shot rings out." "This shot goes through the door, hits vicki weaver in the face," "Splinters, and wounds kevin harris," "And drops vicki dead to the floor." "Morlin:" "When word came down that sammy and vicki weaver were dead," "The crowd at the roadblock," "Which numbered 50, to 100, to 200 on occasion," "Went crazy." "Man:" "You call yourself an american?" "These are americans!" "These are god-fearing people!" "You don't even know your constitution." "Go back and read what your founding fathers said." "Potok:" "The events at ruby ridge lit up the radical right." "Here was a government that would murder men, women, and children" "In order to pursue whatever their ends were." "Baby killers!" "Baby killers!" "Potok:" "The roadblock became a gathering point" "For skinheads, for aryan nations members," "For all kinds of people, you know," "Furiously shaking their fists" "At the zionist-occupied government." "You're a disgrace to the white race!" "Man:" "Disgrace to the race!" "This was the first time the movement had gathered" "In such a fashion," "This publicly." "It became a political event of its own." "These were people who saw themselves in randy weaver." "You look at what happened" "And how many times it could have been averted and avoided." "The idea that the far right had at that moment" "That the government was a very dangerous entity," "This case would seem to prove it as completely as possible." "Man:" "Mr. Weaver, do you have anything to say?" "Zeskind:" "Ruby ridge, more even than robert mathews and the order," "Became a central calling card and rallying card" "For the far right." "For them, the government was after weaver's guns" "And his religion." "And guns and religion became the twin pillars" "Of the white supremacist movement." "Morlin:" "In late summer, 1992, after ruby ridge," "Several members of the extremist movement" "Saw that as an opportune moment" "To sort of gather everybody together" "And, "let's raise hell about this."" "One race, one folk, one nation, one people, one homeland!" "We're going to have it!" "Levitas:" "Louis beam, former grand dragon of the ku klux klan, said," "Now is the time for you as an individual" "To commit overt acts of anti-government violence." "Essentially, anybody representative" "Of government or law enforcement" "Was a fair and reasonable target." "Noble:" "The government is an enemy of the people." "And in this war," "It's an, it's an all-or-nothing, you know." "We're either going to win as the white race" "Or we're going to lose." "Man:" "602 to operations." "The water is shut off to the federal building." "At this time, the water is shut off." "Man:" "Probably about 10:00 in the morning," "I got a call at the hospital." "There's a lady who's trapped," "And the only way that we're going to be able" "To extricate her and save her life" "Is to amputate her leg." "So I got an amputation set, I got some nylon rope," "And away I went." "When I got to the building, it was surreal." "There were a lot of first responders there" "Who had pretty well set things up" "So they could take somebody away the minute that they found them." "And then I was led into the basement." "Flowers:" "We could hear people screaming." "We could hear them screaming, we could hear them crying." "You just couldn't see them because it was so dark." "When they fired up these lights," "You could see the floors had fallen on top of each other" "And created, like, a dungeon underneath the murrah building." "Everywhere you look in this floor" "That you could see," "There were these round circles of coagulated blood" "That were coming through the cracks of the floor." "These circles were three and four feet in diameter," "And they're everywhere, seemed like everywhere," "And you knew that that was a person that had been crushed." "Sullivan:" "They led me to where daina was trapped." "There was a first responder with his hand on the beam" "That had her leg trapped." "And if it trembled or moved, we were told we had to go." "The beam was lying on her leg, her tibia, just below the knee." "Basically, to do the amputation," "I had to lie with my legs up by her head." "And so I took the traction rope and tightened it down" "So that I had a tourniquet." "And then, you know, it's kind of like diving into ice water." "I had to start." "Man:" "Get back!" "Go, go!" "Get them back!" "Get them back!" "Potok:" "Just as I got to where the barricade was," "This incredible scare went through the crowd." "Get your stuff back now!" "Someone was yelling they thought" "They had discovered a second bomb: "get back, get back!"" "Man:" "We've got a hot device... get them back!" "Flowers:" "They start screaming at us." ""Get out of this building, we have just found another device!"" "And of course, everybody's heart sinks," "Because we've got people still alive in here." "Woman:" "I was on the eighth floor." "My eyes were in pretty bad shape." "Two of my friends worked their way over to me," "And said, "we've got to get out of here."" "I was praying, I was saying," ""lord, don't let there be any more bombs."" "Ricks:" "It turns out that it was not a real device." "It had been a mockup for one of the agencies there." "But we were still telling people, you know," "That we couldn't guarantee their safety" "As they went in there." "Flowers:" "I remember seeing that team down there" "Working on that girl to amputate that leg." "Everybody's screaming at them, "get out of there!" "Get out of there, the bomb's going to..."" "And they would not leave, they would not leave her." "Sullivan:" "I don't remember how many times" "I thought I had completed the amputation." "We would try to extract daina and she was still caught." "I reached a point where all of the blades were broken" "And there was nothing else to do," "But I had in my pocket a pocketknife" "That I keep very sharp." "The thing that was keeping us from extracting her" "Was the quadriceps tendon," "And once I cut through that," "Then I could kind of get a sense that the leg was free" "And we were able to extract her." "Man:" "We have two critical patients." "I have one patient that needs immediate transport..." "Schwab:" "When I got out of the building," "I sat on the curb waiting for an ambulance." "I couldn't see anything," "But I could hear people yelling, people screaming," "Sirens in the background." "And I thought, "what crazy person did this?" "Who has come in here and done this terrible thing?"" "The bombing in oklahoma city" "Was an attack on innocent children" "And defenseless citizens." "It was an act of cowardice and it was evil." "Let there be no room for doubt," "We will find the people who did this." "Ricks:" "The bombing of the murrah building" "Was the largest domestic terrorist event" "That had ever occurred in the United States." "We probably had close to 500 investigators" "That were here in oklahoma city." "We had forensic teams, bomb squad teams," "Evidence response teams, all kinds of experts," "Looking for clues." "Man:" "This becomes one of the biggest criminal investigations" "In american history." "Every police agency in the country" "Is in some way trying to track down leads," "Because at the very first, they had no idea who did it." "Fbi hotline." "Ricks:" "We have had hundreds, if not thousands of leads." "Each one of those is treated very seriously." "But at this point, we cannot speculate" "With regard to who is responsible." "We ended up with leads in literally every state," "As well as many foreign countries." "Whenever you have a mass catastrophe," "Such as the murrah bombing," "The assumption is always," ""you've got to have this great conspiracy." "There've got to be multiple people involved."" "And we operated under that assumption, as well." "We were getting calls, even just after the bombing happened." "We were getting reports by the thousands," "That, "I saw this, I saw that."" "Then we started getting calls over the radio" "About middle easterners." ""Start looking for middle easterners."" "There has yet been no claim of responsibility for this bombing," "Although if you talk to intelligence sources" "And to law enforcement officials," "They all say in their early guess" "In this situation" "Is that this particular bombing" "Probably has roots in the middle east." "A u.S. Government source has told cbs news" "That it has middle east terrorism written all over it." "Woman:" "I started making phone calls," "Trying to find out what was going on" "And very quickly found out that the feds went" "And raided an apartment in dallas" "That was occupied by some middle eastern guys." "But then someone I spoke to said," ""do you know what day it is?"" "I said, you know, "what?"" "I had been off work for a couple of days," "And so, you know," "Wasn't paying attention to the calendar that closely." "And someone said, "it's April 19."" "Immediately it hit me." "This is about waco." "You know, this is about waco." "♪ Give me that old-time religion ♪" "♪ Give me that old-time religion ♪" "♪ Give me that old-time religion ♪" "♪ It's good enough for me!" "Wright:" "The branch davidians had been in texas" "For over 50 years" "By the time that most people outside of waco" "Had ever heard of them." "They were an offshoot" "Of the seventh-day adventist church." "They found a place just outside of waco, called it mt." "Carmel," "And set up this community." "In the late '80s," "A young davidian named vernon howell" "Had a revelation" "That god had chosen him to be their leader." "He changed his name to david koresh" "And began preaching his vision of armageddon" "Out of the book of revelation." ""So how's god going to talk to me in the latter days?"" "Audience:" "It's going to be written." "And who's going to bring that book?" "So there'll be no excuses!" "Hancock:" "In about may of 1992," "The sheriff's department in waco" "Got a report from a u.P.S. Truck driver" "About a shipment going to mt." "Carmel." "There was a box that fell apart," "And some pineapple grenade hulls came out of the box." "That's what prompted" "The beginning of the atf investigation." "Man:" "That investigation was able to determine" "That they were illegally converting automatic weapons" "In there," "That they had purchased about $43,000 worth of firearms" "During the year prior to it," "And members of the community out there" "Had heard automatic weapons fire and explosions" "Coming from the compound." "Hancock:" "Koresh preached increasingly" "That they were going to be met with an opposing force." "So when we start getting into the subject" "Of the seven seals," "Looks like somebody's going to get" "A butt-whuppin' in the near future," "Aren't they?" "Hancock:" "He believed that the government" "Was going to try to invade this sacred ground" "That was mt." "Carmel." "And so, this actually would be where armageddon takes place." "Buford:" "People in atf felt" "That if this armageddon that he predicted didn't come true," "He was going to have to do something to prompt it." "So we decided that we needed to act as quickly as possible." "Hancock:" "Reporters for the waco tribune-herald" "Had really good sources in local law enforcement," "And they had been tipped" "About when the raid was going to go down." "This road's going to be closed soon." "Hancock:" "The morning of the raid," "A reporter was sent to the compound," "And he's driving around" "Trying to figure out where he is," "When here comes a buick station wagon," "Stops, rolls down the window," "Says, "hey, buddy, are you lost?"" "He says, "yeah, I'm looking for mt." "Carmel."" "There's going to be a big raid."" "Turns out that the guy in the car" "Is one of the inner circle of koresh's followers." "He immediately goes and tells koresh" "What was happening." "That morning," "David said that we had information" "That there was going to be a raid today." "The men were arming themselves and the women were told" "To go back to their rooms and bunker down." "Buford:" "We were going to be confronting 150 people" "On a very large compound." "They had 45 minutes to prepare for us" "And began firing on us as soon as we got there." "I heard an m60 machine gun being fired." "Then I heard the a.K.-47s." "And then I heard the 50-calibers," "Just a brutal, brutal weapon." "There's no doubt these people were trying to kill us." "The firefight went on for 2 1/2 hours." "And when they finally agreed to a ceasefire," "We were able to get our people and get out." "Man:" "Yeah, this is lynch." "Koresh:" "Hey, lynch?" "Lynch:" "Yeah." "Koresh:" "That's kind of a funny name there." "Now, listen, now..." "Lynch:" "Now, who am I speaking with?" "Koresh:" "This is david koresh." "Lynch:" "Okay, david." "Koresh:" "The notorious." "What'd you guys do that for?" "Lynch:" "Well, david, what, this, what I'm doing is," "I'm trying to establish some communication links with you." "Koresh:" "No, no, no, no, no." "Let me tell you something." "Lynch:" "Yes, sir." "Koresh:" "You see, you brought" "A bunch of guys out here" "And you killed some of my children." "We told you we wanted to talk." "How come you guys had to be atf agents?" "How come you try to be so big all the time?" "Lynch:" "Okay, david..." "Koresh:" "Now there's a bunch of us dead." "There's a bunch of you guys dead." "Now, now that's your fault." "Lynch:" "Okay, let's, let's try to resolve this now." "Tell me this, now, you have casualties." "How many casualties?" "Do you want to try to work something out?" "Atf is pulling back, we're trying to, uh..." "Koresh:" "Why didn't you do that first?" "Hancock:" "By the end of this shootout, four atf agents were dead," "More than a dozen were wounded." "And inside, five davidians were dead" "And david koresh was wounded." "Man:" "Okay, then, move out." "Buford:" "There really wasn't much organization as to how we left." "The three team leaders, all of us," "Were wounded very badly." "I was actually put in a blanket and placed on the hood of a car," "And, uh..." "I don't remember anything about the..." "The trip out, actually." "Hancock:" "American law enforcement had never seen anything like this." "They had never had this kind of loss." "They had never been met with this kind of resistance." "There was shock, there was anger," "And there was uncertainty." "Reporter:" "Tragedy tonight in waco, texas." "At least four federal agents and a member of a cult group" "Are dead after an hour-long gun battle at the cult's ranch." "14 other agents were wounded in the shootout" "That started when law officers tried to enter the compound." "Man:" "David koresh, pick up the phone." "The negotiators want to speak with you." "Ricks:" "The tactic from the very beginning" "Was trying to negotiate a resolution." "We were willing to spend as long as possible" "To try to get the people out." "And particularly, we would focus on the children," "Trying to get the children out of there." "Man:" "And starting off the evening of the 28th of February," "We were successful." "We were starting to get kids out." "But we couldn't fathom how in the world" "These parents were so latched onto david" "That they would abandon their children." "We took videotapes of them" "Playing on the, on the swing set," "And eating ice cream," "And just communing with one another," "And we sent them back into the compound." "We wanted to do something tangible" "So their parents could think, you know," ""maybe I need to come out and reassume my responsibility" "As a parent."" "Schroeder:" "I didn't decide to send my kids out." "My kids leaving was part of the prophecy." "I didn't know when it was going to happen," "But I knew it would happen." "They weren't david's children." "Man:" "He let children go" "Up until there were no children left in there" "Except his children." "And he told us, "this is the last one." "The rest are mine."" "Hancock:" "The negotiators needed a different way" "To approach the situation." "And so it was proposed to koresh that he make a recording" "That could be broadcast" "To bring his message to the world," "If he would agree to lead his people out." "Koresh agreed to do this." "Okay, here we go." "We're going to the tape of david koresh." "Koresh:" "It's March 2, 1993." "My name is dave koresh." "I'm speaking to you from mt." "Carmel center." "In the book of revelation, commentary states" "That what john has written in scripture" "Is nothing other than the revelation of Jesus christ," "Which god gave to him to show to his servants" "Things which must shortly come to pass..." "Hancock:" "They're bringing in buses." "They're bringing in all sorts of people" "Who are going to help process the folks" "Coming out of the compound." "They were convinced that he was going to come out." "Ricks:" "We were at such a high level," "Thinking that this thing was going to end." "We were high-fiving each other," "Then all of a sudden, everything just stopped." "We were told that david received a message from god" "Telling them to wait." "Sage:" "You went back on your word." "Koresh:" "That is a lie!" "Sage:" "That is not a lie." "Koresh:" "That is a lie!" "You will find out in the judgment..." "Sage:" "You know as well as I do" "That your challenge to open these seven seals," "It's garbage, it's a false hope, and you know this." "Koresh:" "No, it's not." "Hancock:" "Once he didn't come out," "The fbi's tactics pretty quickly became aggressive." "The power was cut." "They blasted lights at the compound." "They had brought in tanks," "So they drove over koresh's prized cars." "They also set up loudspeakers and they began blasting" "Nancy sinatra's "these boots are made for walking."" "♪ one of these days these boots are gonna walk all over you. ♪" "Hancock:" "Christmas carols, the sounds of dying rabbits," "Phones off the hook, and even tibetan monk chants." "It was clear that the fbi was saying," ""hey, we're going to show you who's boss."" "Reporter:" "The standoff outside the branch davidian compound" "Has become a psychological power struggle." "Now, sources tell cbs news that federal agents don't plan" "To let this go on indefinitely," "Their frustration level is very high," "And if negotiations are not more fruitful," "They may take action by this weekend." "Dan?" "Ricks:" "The story kept growing and growing." "And the press initially was very supportive" "Of what we were doing," "And very understanding," "But as the days went on," "They started becoming more demanding." "They were saying, "after all, they've killed four atf agents."" "Why are you just sitting back and letting them do this?"" "We are not going to be jerked around." "We will take whatever action is necessary to get it resolved." "And again, our ultimate goal from day one" "Is to get it resolved peacefully." "It was probably the number-one story in the United States," "And many of the right-wing patriot types" "Started showing up, as well." "They thought this was only about seizing guns," "About atf attacking a church" "Because they believed in possessing guns." "They didn't manage to get into the press conferences," "But somebody else did." "Hancock:" "Louis beam, the white supremacist" "And former klan leader," "Showed up and presented himself as a credentialed reporter." "Are we seeing the emergence of a police state" "In the United States?" "We figured out who he was pretty quickly." "He'd previously been on the fbi's top ten most wanted list." "And I asked them if they're going to have a police state," "And, uh, they don't want to hear about police state," "Atf black-booted, black-suited, black-helmeted troopers" "Carrying guns, assaulting people." "Mr. Beam?" "Let me see this..." "Zeskind:" "White supremacists, like beam, saw in this standoff" "The same issues that they had decided were important" "With randy weaver." "The branch davidians were not white supremacists." "But now a broader section of the far right" "Sees itself in waco, and says," ""we're being suppressed for our beliefs and our guns."" "Up to the top of the hill, them two white..." "Little white buildings up there." "Hancock:" "There was a hill that was about three miles from mt." "Carmel." "It was on a rise that was high enough" "That you could just barely see mt." "Carmel in the distance." "This was as close as members of the public" "Could get to the standoff." "Woman:" "You're next, you're next!" "Wake up and understand!" "You're next!" "Hancock:" "All sorts of folks felt moved to come down" "To see what was going on at waco." "Just, just arrived today." "Just, somebody told me" "A lot of people are scared to put something on," "You know, like this." "Hancock:" "Timothy mcveigh" "Had already apparently been very concerned" "About what had happened at ruby ridge." "So he came down to waco" "And sold bumper stickers" "With pro-gun, anti-government slogans." "He saw the raid as clear evidence" "Of what the government would do" "To try to confiscate guns and persecute gun owners." "Herbeck:" "Tim mcveigh loved guns." "When he was a kid," "His grandfather taught him all about guns:" "The safe handling of guns and the rights of gun owners." "They would go out and shoot together," "Go to target practice." "He just loved guns," "And the whole belief about a man owning guns." "Man:" "Pendleton, new york, was white suburbia." "It's near buffalo." "It's where generations of the mcveigh family had lived." "Growing up," "Tim loved superheroes." "He had a huge comic book collection," "He liked soldier of fortune magazine," "And he hated bullies." "Tim was very skinny and tall," "And in high school, he was known as "noodle" mcveigh." "That was the beginning of a lifelong hatred of bullies." "Herbeck:" "After high school, he went into the army." "He just couldn't seem to find the right path to a career." "But the other reason was he loved guns." "It gave him access to all kinds of guns" "And other weapons and he was like a kid in a candy store." "Mcveigh:" "I was an admitted gun enthusiast and so you can't go wrong" "Both brushing up your skills" "And, hell, the army is free ammunition." "So I wanted to get out" "And experience the rest of the world." "I wanted to get out of my isolation of pendleton." "Michel:" "The army provided tim mcveigh with a place where he fit in." "He was the top gun at fort riley in his bradley fighting vehicle." "His supervisors took notice of him." "He was a leader in the army." "And then he goes over to iraq for the first gulf war." "Herbeck:" "It was in the war that mcveigh first started" "To become disillusioned with the military" "And the United States government." "When he killed iraqi soldiers," "He didn't feel the exhilaration that he thought he would." "Potok:" "He took a very, very long sniper shot" "And killed an iraqi soldier." "And he describes seeing this man's head explode." "And he could not see the reason for it." "He could not really understand" "What the United States was doing there." "Mcveigh:" "My overall experience in the gulf war" "Taught me that these people were just that, they were people." "They were human beings at the core," "They were no different than me." "Then I had to reconcile that with the fact" "That, well, I killed them." "Michel:" "He's truly conflicted." "He sees the american government as a bully." "But they summon him home for ranger school, special forces." "And he was willing to put aside his anti-government views" "In order to become, you know, the ultimate soldier." "But he's not in top-notch physical shape" "And, to his embarrassment, washes out of rangers school." "And the disillusionment compounds itself." "He stayed around the army for a few more months," "But his heart just wasn't in it anymore." "He went back home and he thought it would be easy" "To get a good job because of his army experience," "But he found that it wasn't." "Failure was eating at him." "He told us that "I feel like I reached a pinnacle in the army"" "And then after that everything was just mediocrity."" "Ben fenwick:" "He becomes more and more disaffected." "He becomes more and more strident." "He began paying attention to the really far-off conspiracies," "Like that the united nations was going to take over" "The United States, and he totally bought into them." "And he also becomes very influenced" "By the turner diaries." "He becomes just gripped by this novel." "Herbeck:" "He was really interested in this character, earl turner," "And his antigovernment views" "And his feeling that you needed to take drastic action" "To make the government take notice." "And then ruby ridge happened." "And ruby ridge absolutely enraged mcveigh." "He felt it was murder." "He felt it was all about" "Attacking the rights of people to own guns." "Potok:" "He was not happy." "He wasn't getting along with his family." "He didn't have a girlfriend." "He took his old beat-up car and essentially began an odyssey," "Traveling around the western parts of the country," "Kind of absorbing more and more and more of this ideology." "And probably the single most important place" "Where ideas of the radical right were spread were gun shows." "Levitas:" "Gun shows were sometimes more than just gun shows." "The antigovernment message, which cloaked itself" "In the paraphernalia of patriotism," "Was promoted and peddled at gun shows all over." "Zeskind:" "There were a number of people" "Who traveled from gun show to gun show," "Selling and trading," "And timothy mcveigh became one of these people." "And in the process he met white supremacists" "And talked to them." "He sold the turner diaries." "He became embroiled in the larger movement." "Michel:" "And then he shows up at waco." "He can't believe it, that, you know," "American citizens are being held there by government agents." "And it rivets his attention." "Mcveigh:" "Who were the aggressors?" "Koresh wasn't giving in, that's true," "But the fbi were the aggressors, okay?" "Everything they do exudes that they are at war." "They're a military force at war." "The thing is, who are they at war with?" "Well, they're at war with the american people." "In waco, texas, the 40th day of the siege" "At david koresh's compound is ending" "Just like the other 39..." "With koresh and his followers on the inside," "And federal agents outside waiting for something to happen." "Man:" "David koresh, pick up the phone." "The negotiators want to speak with you." "Sage:" "As the negotiations continued," "The productivity of those negotiations diminished," "Mainly, I think, because david was done sending out the people" "That he intended to send out." "Kat schroeder:" "Those of us that left were leaving because" "We were not good for the group." "We were not going to help the group ascend." "So we were kicked out." "The last person came out of that compound on the 21st of March." "The last child came out the 5th of March." "We were in a very difficult situation." "You know, you guys, you guys, you do it your way," "I do it my way." "You're going to argue with me," "You catch me on the side of the road somewhere," "And you come and argue with me." "You come pointing guns in the direction of my wives" "And my kids, dammit, I'll meet you at the door any time." "Nobody's fooled here." "We're not negotiating, okay?" "That's over, if it ever existed." "We weren't accomplishing anything." "We were just in a situation" "That all it could do was grow worse." "Hancock:" "More and more people within the bureau began to come around" "To the idea that they needed to do something" "To force koresh's hand." "So the fbi went to the attorney general, janet reno, with a plan" "To use armored vehicles to knock holes into the building" "And spray in tear gas." "Initially she refused it." "She asked for more information." "So the fbi went back with testimony" "From former davidians of child sexual abuse" "Going on in mt." "Carmel." "And she saw the videotape evidence of these young girls" "With these babies, and it confirmed to her" "That this was going on." "At that point, janet reno approved the plan." "Steve schneider:" "Everybody grab your mask." "Everybody grab your mask." "Sage:" "A number of times early on," "We had gotten court-authorized permission" "To insert microphones into that building." "That morning, we couldn't hear anything live" "Because there was too much noise, too much ambient noise." "But once the tapes are scrubbed, someone clearly says," ""put on your masks."" "Shortly after that, you distinctly hear" "Orders to spread the fuel." "Sage:" "All the while our guys were inserting tear gas," "They were spreading fuel." "All morning long." "Jamar:" "Had we heard that, "spread the fuel,"" "We would have pulled back." "We would have pulled away." "And then, of course, what happened," "It was just devastating to everybody." "As you can see on your screen," "There is a great deal of smoke coming out from the building." "Let's go to mike capps..." "We can also see some flames there now." "Mike, what can you tell us?" "Mike capps:" "Well, bonnie, for the last 15 minutes," "We've watched this m60 vehicle, this combat engineering vehicle," "Make large holes in the side of this building" "And pump tear gas in there." "Now we have a very large-scale fire breaking out" "On what must be the south side," "Right near the front side of this building." "Potok:" "I went out to the roadblock," "And was looking through a friend's television camera," "And noticed little tiny licks of flame," "First out of one side of the building," "Then out of the other." "And in a matter of it seemed like seconds," "The building was engulfed." "You know, we all stood there waiting to see" "The people come out." "You know, there were 80 or 90 people in there." "Sage:" "As that fire continued to build, a few adults came out." "One of them had jumped out of the second floor window," "And then she ran back into the fire." "An agent started to run after her, went into the building," "Grabbed her, and pulled her out," "And she was ready to ignite." "I mean, there was smoke trailing off of her clothes." "Nine adults came out." "Not one of them brought a child out." "Jamar:" "The part that we played cannot be ignored." "We provoked the circumstances," "But david koresh decided who was going to die." "What happened was to serve his purpose," "And that's the most devastating thing to me," "Is I served his purpose to a terrible degree." "Buford:" "When I saw the fire," "All I could think about were the children in there." "You know, the parents had made their own decisions," "But those kids didn't make any decisions." "I literally bawled when I saw it." "It was armageddon, just like he said it would be." "Wright:" "At ruby ridge, americans saw the deaths of two people." "But at waco, they saw massive deaths." "There were people who had a legitimate argument" "That there were all kinds of mistakes made" "And this could have ended very differently." "But other people were saying this was a government massacre" "On a scale nobody had seen before." "It was certainly framed in this manner by the far right," "And the reaction was almost immediate." "We have several witnesses that say that they saw 25 to 30 people exiting out these double doors" "To escape the fire, and that these people were gunned down" "In cold blood as they tried to escape." "There were several films made by people on the radical right," "Which claimed that this had been a deliberate murder." "Hancock:" "One of the earliest was a documentary" "Called waco:" "The big lie." "The crucial footage that they used" "Was footage on the day of the fire," "Where they alleged that if you looked at the footage" "The right way, that you could see" "The tanks actually setting fire to the building." "Archival narrator:" "At the same time as fire was already breaking out" "In the back of the house, as you just saw," "As this tank backs out, flame can be seen" "Shooting from the front of it." "When someone could package the footage" "That had disturbed everybody in america" "With a potent message about, you know, government atrocities," "It touched a chord." "You know, those who had a tendency to doubt the government" "Were enraged." "Herbeck:" "When the fire started at waco," "Tim mcveigh was at a friend's farmhouse up in michigan." "He was working on a vehicle out in the yard" "And somebody yelled out, "tim, come in here." "You've got to see this on television."" "Mcveigh:" "I'm watching flames lick out windows," "And I'm watching tanks ram walls," "And my eyes just welled up in tears," "And tears started coming down my cheeks" "As I'm watching this scene unfold." "I'm not going to shy away from the word rage." "For me, I felt absolute rage." "Herbeck:" "For tim mcveigh, it was all happening" "Because of the u.S. Government, the biggest bully in the world." "And just a few months later, the brady bill passes." "It has a ban on several assault weapons, long overdue." "Herbeck:" "Like many people, tim mcveigh was convinced" "That the brady bill meant that the government" "Was going to take guns away from law-abiding citizens." "A ban on handgun ownership" "And restrictions on possession of handguns by minors," "The beginning of reform" "Of our federal firearms licensing systems." "Levitas:" "The combination of the perceived government assassination" "Of the weaver family," "The perceived military government murdering" "Its own citizens in waco, and then the brady bill," "The government coming after your guns," "Just exploded the recruitment of anti-government extremists." "We have a government that is on the verge" "Of being completely out of control." "They allow tyrants to come in with hooded masks on," "Unidentified, bust down your door." "It's happened all over america." "Phil donahue:" "This is the new thing in america." "It's called the militia." "No, they say they're not racist." "It's not just about guns and possession of guns," "But the 2nd amendment's involved here, definitely." "They're proud of their 2nd amendment." "And by god no constable is going to come from some faraway place" "And break their door down." "They'll shoot 'em first." "Zeskind:" "There had been a spurt of growth in militia organizations" "After ruby ridge." "But waco, and the brady bill, accelerates the movement." "By the end of '93," "There was a huge underground of armed white supremacist militias" "All over the country, all of them dedicated" "To resistance to the federal government." "Herbeck:" "Tim mcveigh didn't actually belong to a militia group" "But he certainly had the same opinions" "About the government that many of the militia groups had." "For tim mcveigh," "It was all part of a massive government conspiracy." "All these events, they were all connected" "And it was all leading down a path that was going to end" "With federal agents coming to his home" "And the homes of gun owners all over america" "And storming into those homes and taking their guns away." "I think from that moment on," "He was trying to determine what terrorist act to commit" "Against the u.S. Government." "William pierce: "my day's work started a little before 5:00 yesterday"" ""when I began helping ed sanders mix heating oil" "With the ammonium nitrate fertilizer in unit 8's garage."" "Herbeck:" "Tim mcveigh had read in the turner diaries" "Of how, generally, you could build a truck bomb." "He found other articles" "That told him exactly how to build a truck bomb." "He wanted to do what earl turner did:" "Take down a government building." "Mcveigh truly believed that he had two comrades in arms" "In terry nichols and michael fortier." "They go back to the army." "They all like the turner diaries." "They all shared the same antigovernment thoughts." "They all wanted to show that somebody could attack" "The u.S. Government, that it was that vulnerable." "To get started, they knew that they needed the main ingredient," "Which was fertilizer." "Potok:" "They start to buy bag after bag after bag of ammonium nitrate." "Tim mcveigh and terry nichols break into a storage shed" "At a quarry and they steal these explosive tovex sausages," "Which will make the bomb more powerful." "Herbeck:" "It wasn't easy to get some of this stuff." "Some of the explosives were not available" "To the average citizen." "They spent months and months getting the parts" "Of this bomb together." "Fortier's role was very, very limited." "Nichols had a bigger role," "But, really, just following orders from mcveigh." "Potok:" "And then, tim mcveigh manages to get" "Some 55-gallon drums of nitromethane racing fuel." "The bomb that was depicted in the turner diaries" "Was ammonium nitrate and fuel oil." "Mcveigh was going to amp up his bomb really dramatically" "By using this much, much more volatile fuel." "Herbeck:" "During this time that he was driving around" "Getting his materials for the bomb," "Mcveigh was basically on this anti-government odyssey." "He visited a militia compound, he visited area 51 in roswell," "And he visited waco." "Fenwick:" "It was very important to him to go bear witness" "To what had happened," "To make himself feel that-that place and that moment." "It was also around this time" "That he and fortier and nichols began selecting" "What was going to be the target of their bomb." "Wright:" "They went to little rock, arkansas." "They went to tulsa." "They went to dallas." "They picked the murrah building in oklahoma city, in part," "Because the atf," "Who had conducted the raid on the branch davidians," "Had an office in the building." "They thought it was appropriately symbolic" "That they would go after somebody" "Who was directly connected to waco." "Fenwick:" "The murrah building had numerous federal offices." "It had hud, it had the atf." "It had general accounting offices." "It had military recruiters," "The social security administration," "The dea was in there." "And there is some question as to whether or not" "Mcveigh knew there was a day care in there," "But he also kind of indicated" "That it wouldn't have made the difference anyway." "Michael fortier began feeling uneasy about doing this." "He suddenly visualized what was going to happen." "He points out that there were probably going to be" "Innocent people inside that are going to die." "Wright:" "Mcveigh told him, "there has to be a body count."" "He said, "the government's not going to sit up and take notice"" "Unless there's a body count."" ""they can always build a new building," "But a body count will get their attention."" "Mcveigh:" "From a military perspective, to get a message across," "You need to hurt them where they hurt the most." "The only way they're going to feel something," "And the only way they're going to get the message" "Is with a body count." "Michel:" "Tim picks April 19 for the bombing" "Because it will be the anniversary of the fire at waco." "On easter Sunday, three days before," "Tim mcveigh calls terry nichols and says it's time." "Herbeck:" "He and nichols, separately," "Drove from kansas to oklahoma city." "Mcveigh took his $300 getaway car" "And stashed it in a little parking lot." "He put a sign in the window, "please do not tow,"" "And then they drove back to kansas." "The next day mcveigh goes alone, apparently," "To rent a truck in junction city," "The big ryder truck that he will use as a bomb." "Hersley:" "They asked him: "do you need insurance on it?"" "He said, "no, I won't need any insurance."" "And they said, "do you need any extra days?"" "And he answered, "no, I won't need any extra days."" "We actually have him on video coming in to the mcdonald's" "About a mile away from where he picked up the truck." "Herbeck:" "April 18 was bomb making day." "Mcveigh drove the truck out to geary lake state park," "Where they would assemble the bomb." "He was extremely upset" "Because nichols was starting to get cold feet." "He threatened to kill nichols and his family" "If nichols refused to help him with the final preparations." "Mcveigh:" "The bomb was primarily assembled by myself," "With a little assistance from another," "Who was under duress to assist me." "I was the one that primed the charges," "That crimped the caps to the fuse, primed each barrel," "Made sure there was redundant fusing systems." "And it only took three hours." "Fenwick:" "After they get the bomb built," "Terry nichols made it very clear he was not going to join mcveigh" "The morning of the bombing." "And so they said goodbye, shook hands, nichols wishes him luck," "And then he gets in the truck and he drives south." "Herbeck:" "He was nervous as he drove into oklahoma city," "But I don't think he ever second-guessed himself." "I don't think he ever thought for a minute" "That this was the wrong thing to do." "When he got close to the building," "He pulled the truck over," "And lit two different fuses leading back to the bomb." "Hersley:" "The last video that we have of him was at 8:57" "In front of the regency tower apartments." "At that point in time, he was about" "A block and a half west of the murrah building." "Norfleet:" "As I was driving past," "I noticed this yellow ryder truck" "Pull into in the loading zone in front of the building." "A young man got out of the truck." "He had a military haircut and the t-shirt, and I thought," ""well, okay, that's a sergeant or something" ""checking into the command." ""But what in the world is he doing" "Going away from the building?"" "Mcveigh:" "I walked very slowly toward the ymca." "Once I got in the blind alley of the ymca," "I did jog because I knew nobody was looking." "Flowers:" "Later that morning," "We went into the south side of the building, not knowing" "What we were fixing to walk into was the daycare center." "The granite floor was all busted and broken" "And just, you know, going every which way." "And as I'm fixing to go in," "One of the oklahoma city officers comes walking out" "Carrying a little boy." "It's where the elevators used to be!" "I can't." "Let me have him." "I can't." "Flowers:" "And I just turned" "And took a second breath and went into the daycare center." "We were moving debris, we were picking up boulders." "Literally everyone was digging on their hands and knees," "Trying to get to these kids." "Garrett:" "The children were coming out one by one." "Brandon was severely injured." "So was nekla." "Rebecca, um, just seemed to me, and I..." "It just seemed as though she was just dipped in blood." "The next baby that they brought out," "They went to lay this baby on the ground." "They had these perfectly folded white sheets" "And they would bring another one out," "And they would bring another one, and another one." "And they lay them in a line, wrapped in these sheets." "And then a nurse came, and she moved the blanket" "Back from their feet," "And she was writing things, and she tagged their little feet." "And I think that's when reality, you know, set in," "That my son tevin's not coming home." "Flowers:" "When a baby's body was carried out of that building," "Even though one person carried that baby," "We all carried that baby." "And when we laid him down onto that makeshift morgue" "And lined those children up out there," "That was really a hard thing to see," "Because that was all of our kids." "That was everybody's kids." "That wasn't just one person's child." "They belonged to everybody." "The emotions that we felt and still feel to this day" "From what we saw was just remarkable." "And the kids that survived and came through that" "Was just absolutely incredible." "Jim denny:" "Our children ended up at two different hospitals." "And once we found them," "We just made up our minds" "That claudia was gonna be with rebecca" "And I was gonna be with brandon." "When I got there, brandon had just had" "A four-and-a-half-hour brain surgery." "How's daddy's big boy, huh?" "Denny:" "He had a piece of something blown into the upper left side" "Of his head that went into his brain." "Dr. Reynolds, his neurosurgeon, could not tell us" "Whether he'd live or not." "We knew for an absolute fact" "That our children were 50 feet from it." "50 feet from a massive bomb." "There was five children sitting at a table" "In the daycare center, and one in the bathroom." "And those six survived." "Claudia denny:" "When I saw rebecca for the first time," "The doctor said, "she's going to be fine."" "She has a lot of cuts, bruises," "And she has a broken collarbone." "But she was alive." "At 9:02 that day, our world ended." "And then when we found our kids," "Our new world began at 4:00 on April 19." "I love you, baby." "How you doing today, sir?" "We're currently conducting an investigation" "Into the oklahoma city bombing." "Do you usually travel this road very much?" "Ricks:" "We operate under the premise" "That the evidence leads you to where you want to go." "We have to gather every bit of evidence that we can" "And then start trying to form hypotheses and theories" "As to what has transpired." "Did you notice a ryder truck?" "The first real break of the investigation," "Which happened within hours of the bombing," "Was we found the rear axle" "Of what turned out to be the bomb truck." "Hersley:" "On the rear axle assembly, there's what's called" "A confidential vehicle identification number," "Which was pva26077." "I'll never forget that number." "Tongate:" "We were able to trace that number to a ryder truck" "Assigned to elliott's body shop in junction city, kansas." "Ricks:" "We immediately deployed special agents" "To that ryder truck rental shop." "We learned that it had been rented by a gentleman" "With a south dakota driver's license" "By the name of robert kling." "We had three principal witnesses there inside the truck rental." "They described a military type person, about six foot tall," "Thin, close shaven." "They also believed that there was a second person with him," "So we called these john doe number one" "And john doe number two." "Our agents flooded the area of junction city." "One particular agent went to the dreamland motel," "And he asked the manager, "has anybody been in here" "With a ryder truck?"" "Tongate:" "She said, "yes."" ""I had a customer who stayed here in room 25" ""that had a ryder truck parked at the motel," "And I last saw him on Tuesday morning, April the 18th."" "After talking to her about the ryder truck," "They show her the sketch, and she recognizes it." "She pulls out her records," "And for all of mcveigh's planning," "He apparently had a moment of weakness" "And he signed his own name to the register." "Hersley:" "So that really got us." "We wanted to know who tim mcveigh was." "So what we did" "Was go into the national crime information center" "And run an offline search," "And try to find out if anybody named tim mcveigh" "Has been arrested anywhere in the United States" "In the recent past." "Ricks:" "It turns out that a highway patrolman" "Has arrested someone by the name of timothy mcveigh." "Herbeck:" "He was heading off toward kansas in this old mercury marquis." "He'd got on the interstate, and a state trooper pulled him over" "Because he had no license plate on the back of his car." "Hancock:" "The trooper then notices a bulge under the driver's jacket," "And says, "is that a gun?"" "The driver acknowledges, "yes, it is,"" "And tim mcveigh is put under arrest" "And taken to the county jail." "Michel:" "The t-shirt he is wearing" "Says sic semper tyrannis..." ""thus ever to tyrants."" "It was what john wilkes booth shouted when he shot lincoln." "For two days mcveigh languished in the jail" "And nobody really knew who he was." "Other than the fact that he was illegally carrying a weapon," "The police had no suspicions about him." "Ricks:" "We called up the courthouse there and learned" "That timothy mcveigh was just getting ready to appear" "Before the judge and was about ready to be released." "So we said, you know, "put a hold on him." "We're on our way."" "Michel:" "Two federal agents interview him" "In the noble county sheriff's office." "And the agents start by saying, "do you know why we're here?"" "And mcveigh says," ""does it have something to do with the bombing?"" "I am pleased to announce that one of the individuals" "Believed to be responsible for Wednesday's terrible attack" "On the murrah federal building in oklahoma city" "Has been arrested." "Fenwick:" "Once they know they've got their guy," "The decision's made to take him to a more secure facility." "The word is leaked out to the press," "Which broadcasts it on tv," "So people drive there from all over to see this." "Potok:" "I and the rest of the country saw timothy mcveigh" "For the very first time." "And we understood in a kind of flash" "That there were enemies within this country." "Not foreign terrorists, but red-blooded americans" "Who were engaged in a war against america." "Fenwick:" "It was just the lightning moment of recognition." "This was the guy in the sketch." "It was that guy." "I think everybody felt this sudden sense of betrayal." "I think everyone thought, "you're one of us."" "Reporter:" "Mr. President," "Is there a sense now, sir, that this was not a foreign threat?" "Let me say that I have never," "And the justice department has never said," "That it was a foreign threat," "But the most important thing that you understand" "Is that even though this is a positive development," "This investigation has a lot of work still to be done in it." "Ricks:" "The capture of timothy mcveigh" "Really just launched the investigation." "The circumstances, obviously, indicated" "That he was directly involved, but, you know, to what extent?" "His driver's license had an address in decker, michigan." "We dispatched agents to that location" "And we find out that the gentleman there" "By the name of james nichols had a brother, terry," "Presently residing in herington, kansas." "We ended up executing a search warrant on terry nichols' home" "In kansas, and that search warrant was a gold mine." "In there we found a receipt for 2,000 pounds of fertilizer." "We found a cordless drill that turned out to be" "A key piece of evidence." "But probably the most important piece of evidence" "That we found was a calling card in the name of daryl bridges," "Who shared the same address in decker, michigan." "Hersley:" "There were 685 calls made on the calling card." "We determined where every one of those calls was placed from," "The duration of the call, and who the call was made to." "So we saw many calls to chemical companies, to barrel companies," "To racetracks, all kinds of places" "Tim mcveigh and terry nichols were contacting" "To try to acquire bomb components." "We also found out about michael fortier" "Through the calling card." "He knew more than we did about the bombing." "He knew, for example, that tim mcveigh," "When he was staying at their house in kingman," "Had taken all these soup cans down from the kitchen" "And showed michael fortier's wife exactly how he was going" "To construct the bomb inside the back of that ryder truck." "Last night, timothy mcveigh was charged in the bombing" "Of the murrah federal building here in oklahoma city." "Two brothers, james douglas nichols and terry lynn nichols," "Are currently in federal custody" "And are being held as material witnesses." "Another suspect, whom we have identified" "As john doe number two, remains unidentified and at large." "Ricks:" "A mistake was made." "The artist conception has him with a carolina panthers cap on." "It turns out that a guy had happened to be" "In the ryder truck rental shop" "The day before timothy mcveigh was." "His description is almost to a t." "Mcveigh:" "Is there a john doe two?" "Either way I can answer it should be scary" "Because, number one, if there are other people," "That means they're still out there." "On the other hand, if it was just me, that in itself," "Isn't that pretty scary that one man could do that?" "That's why "you can't handle the truth" is the perfect line," "Because the truth is it was just me." "Fenwick:" "The prosecution hit mcveigh's defense team" "With everything they had." "Michael fortier's testimony was crucial and damning," "But he also told a very poignant story." "He talked about how he would have a dream at night" "That he was calling people to warn them," "And then he'd wake up, and he was in jail," "And he hadn't made the call," "And that people were dead because of him." "I was the second witness in the trial," "And as I sat in that witness stand," "It seemed just like an arm's reach away was timothy mcveigh." "He did look me in the eyes, and he did try to intimidate me," "But I was far from being intimidated." "Garrett:" "When I had to testify, and people would ask later," ""how did you sit in the room with the man" "Who murdered your son?"" "And I told them my story is more powerful" "Than me yelling at him." "My story is more powerful than my fist." "I'm not going to go to his level." "You know, I deserve better;" "tevin deserved better." "Every victim of the bombing deserved better than that." "Mcveigh all along wanted a necessity defense," "That he had no choice but to bomb to building." "He did not want to claim some widespread conspiracy," "Which members of the defense team wanted." "Mcveigh wanted no part of that" "Because, number one, it wasn't true" "And, number two," "He did want credit for this thing he had done." "And no evidence has ever surfaced that anybody but him," "With-with a little bit of help from his two army buddies," "Pulled this off." "He built this bomb." "He designed it, he built it, and he was proud of that." "Zeskind:" "There was no massive conspiracy." "That much is clear." "But the idea that timothy mcveigh was a lone killer" "Is wrong-headed because it absolves the movement" "From which it all sprang." "Timothy mcveigh was not on his own." "He was a creation of the white supremacist movement." "He carried the turner diaries around" "And read it to people." "He lived at the gun shows." "He met neo-nazis and visited with them." "He was part of this movement." "And the idea that there was no connection" "Between the white supremacist movement" "And the events in oklahoma city is patently false." "There was a strong connection, and it was a deep connection." "Wright:" "When the verdict was read," "Mcveigh's demeanor didn't change at all." "He didn't even blink." "I think he fully expected to get the verdict" "And he fully expected to get the death penalty," "And he expected to die" "Because I think he wanted to be a martyr." "Fenwick:" "He thought he was starting the next american revolution." "I think he did exactly the opposite," "Because he showed the human face" "Of what it really means to attack a government," "A government of the people." "Schwab:" "We were the government." "We weren't bad guys." "We were mothers and fathers and daughters and sons" "And grandparents who had a job to do." "Supposedly you don't have job satisfaction" "If you work for the government." "I never heard that type of talk in our office." "We were very proud of what we did." "Mcveigh:" "Death penalty is..." "Would you call it an oxymoron?" "Death is not a penalty, it's an escape." "They treat me like a trophy," "Like they've got me, they're gonna kill me, "we've won."" "They didn't win." "In the crudest terms: 168-1." "Norfleet:" "He died without a word." "There was no pain." "There was no regret." "Because I looked into his eyes" "Before they were closed that last time," "And saw the same deep anger and resentment and rage" "That I had seen in that trial several years before." "Flowers:" "Justice was served." "That don't bring them back." "It just won't bring them back." "But it closes a door on that chapter," "And that's exactly what happened" "When they lowered the boom down on timothy mcveigh." "Jim denny:" "We didn't go to the execution." "We had no time to worry about that." "Our total focus, regardless of whatever it took," "Was our children." "Our children and our family." "Claudia denny:" "We were very blessed." "But it's been hard for us." "I mean to watch brandon struggle, as he's struggled," "For the last 20 years." "Faith, family, and friends..." "That's how we survived through all of this." "But also it makes me wonder why a little bit." "I mean, I don't question it all the time," "But sometimes I question why." "And I do have a little bit of the survivor guilt" "That my children survived and some of the others didn't." "Garrett:" "I still have hope that no one ever again becomes so enraged" "With hatred and prejudice and judgment" "That they think the only thing to do is to kill" "And harm other people." "I have hope that through all of this" "That love is stronger than any terrorist attack." "I have hope that that would never happen again."