" Don't move!" " Don't move!" "Get down on the floor!" "Get down right now!" "Get down on the floor!" "I said don't fucking move!" "No." " What's your full name?" " Please don't hurt me." "You wet your bloody self, huh?" "Who are you?" " This his stuff?" " Yeah." "I'm sure they got everything that wasn't nailed down." "Eddie Fleming, this is your life." "Date of birth?" "Date of birth." "22nd of August 1956." " Do you live at this address?" " Um, yes." "Do you own this place, Mr. Fleming?" "Um, no." "No, I rent." " How was it?" " Piece of cake." "Once we were in, he knew who we were, he was, uh..." " What?" " Reasonable." "What..." "What offense?" "You're joking." "Look, I'm sorry I didn't realize who you were." "But you did break down my door." "Please." "What's all this about?" "Have you got anything here that you shouldn't have?" "What?" "Remember, he's only a suspect, so no tunnel vision." "Well, I haven't stolen anything." "What's he doing?" "That's not stolen!" "He..." "Look, he's taking my things!" "Mr. Fleming, we'd like you to come down to our office." "We've got a few questions to put to you." "What office?" "Where?" "Down at the station, Mr. Fleming." "Why?" "Do I have to?" "Well, you... you can ask me anything you want here." "I mean, what do you want to know?" "It's a bit more complicated than that, Mr. Fleming." "You don't have a choice, right?" "Yeah." "I'm sorry." "Um, look." "I can't go like this." "Can I change my clothes, please?" "Turn around." "Look." "I didn't realize..." "You don't need to do this." "Just get on with it, yeah?" "Uh, could somebody help me, please?" "Mr. Fleming, are you all right?" "We've been asking about you." " What is this?" " I don't know." "I don't know." "I'll..." "I'll be back soon, and then I'll explain." "I'm really sorry." "What's going on up there?" "They're taking Mr. Fleming away." "Sir." "CIB, Prior, 21387." "Thank you." "Gee, I like your shoes." "Italian, aren't they?" "No." "Where'd you get them?" " David Jones." " David Jones." "Really?" "You want a coffee?" "You sure you won't, uh, wet your pants?" "I'm sorry to keep you waiting so long, Mr. Fleming." "I'm sure you understand." "Well, no." "No." "I don't understand." "You're here to help us with our inquiries." "What inquiries?" "How's your coffee, Mr. Fleming?" "It's fine." "Think I'll be here very long?" "That depends, doesn't it, Mr. Fleming?" "Depends on what?" "Do you think I could, uh, get these off, please?" "Thank you." "Do you drive a car, Mr. Fleming?" "Car?" "No, I don't." "Ever owned a car?" "Yeah, of course, till I was retrenched." "Can't rent a car on the dole, you know." "No, I don't suppose you can." "A bit tough, is it?" "Oh, it's just one of the many things you find you can actually do without." "Wayne?" "What?" "Senior Detective to you." "Yes, sir." "The newspapers?" "Yeah." "Right." "I want you to go through every single of them." " All of them?" " Every single bloody one." "You better not miss anything." "Yes, sir." "There's got to be thousands of us." "I used to live well." "Good job, you know." "Till everything went down the drain." "Now it's just nothing." "I was one of 200 retrenched in the company." "I lost my house and my wife." "I lost it all." "Why?" "Is that a crime?" "No, Mr. Fleming, it's not." "And you're right." "There are a lot of people in a similar position." "I got a brother-in-law in the same situation." "Well, perhaps." "But he's not sitting in a police station talking to the likes of you." "No." "No, he's not." "Who are you?" "I mean, what do you really want?" "I'm gonna start a formal interview, Mr. Fleming." "Uh, could I have something to eat please?" "Not bloody likely." "It's just that I haven't eaten anything since yesterday afternoon." "We'll see what we can do." "Interview between Detective Sergeant John Steele and Edward Fleming, Melbourne CIB." "Detective Senior Constable Wayne Prior also present." "What is your full and correct name?" "Edward Rodney Fleming." "Do you agree the time is now 7:57 a.m.?" "Yes." "Mr. Fleming..." "I intend to ask you some questions in relation to the theft of a motor vehicle, registration number KCR-109." "What, s-stolen car?" "What, you break down my door for a stolen car and you handcuff me for a stolen car?" "!" "What stolen car?" "!" "I don't know anything about a stolen car!" "Will you sit down, please, Mr. Fleming?" "Sit down, please." "I must advise you that you do not have to say or do anything." "But anything you say or do may be given in evidence." "Do you understand that?" " I believe it." " Good." "Then you won't have a problem telling me about your movements." "No, I don't have a problem telling you anything if only you'll actually ask me something." "Did you go out yesterday?" "Yesterday?" "Yes." "I went to the local grocery shop." "And what'd you get?" "Uh, tinned food, um, newspapers, milk, that sort of thing." "Why do you shop at the local grocery shop?" "Isn't it a bit more expensive than a supermarket, you know, for somebody that's on the dole?" "If I'm running a bit short, they let me have a tab." "And I like them." "They're friendly." "Is that why you shop there every day, is it?" "Someone to talk to?" "I never really thought about it before." "But yeah, I suppose that's part of it." "I mean, you try losing your job, livelihood, your family." "You see how many friends you've got left." "Not many, I guess." "Do you agree that the time is now 7:59 a.m.?" "Yes." "I intend to interrupt this interview for the purpose of making further inquiries." " What, is that it?" " No, no, not yet." "What about the stolen car?" "What about it?" "Well, y-you were gonna ask me some questions about it." "All in good time, Mr. Fleming." "That rattled the bastard." "There's nothing from the other tenants." "He seemed pretty straight." "What do you think?" "Oh, he's a clean skin." "Get somebody back there." "Check out his local shops." "Let's dig into these people." "Yeah, we've done all that." "I want to know about dates and times, want to know what they think of him, anything they might have noticed." "Why are we wasting our time with this?" "Come on." "He's our man." "Let me talk for a bit." "Listen." "Fleming might well be a car thief, but if we can't make this stand up in court, we've got nothing." " If it goes..." " You got that?" " Yes, John." "Perfect." " All right, then." "You keep the bloody mouth shut and just get on with it." "Anything?" "I wish." "Just a little short on bloody evidence." "Oh, yeah." "Like being a little bit pregnant." "Yeah." "Okay." "Well, uh, he's the closest fit we've got." "All right." "So what are John's thoughts?" "Well, you'd better ask him, sir." "Is there a problem?" "Well, sir, all I can say they don't still run refresher courses." "Thank you for coming in at such short notice, Mrs. Beecroft." "Not at all." "Now, we're not necessarily all that advanced from when we last spoke." "We need you to look at some items over here and see if you recognize any of them." "Are you up to that?" " I hope I can be of some help." " So do I." "Sheila, g'day." "How are you?" "Fine, thanks, John." "That's good." "Now, look." "Just have a seat here for us." "There you go." "Can we get you a cup of tea, cup of coffee or something?" " No, thank you." " All right." "Now, these are all the items we'd like you to have a look at." "Now, there's no hurry." "You just take your time." "But it's important that if there is anything here from your husband's car that you do identify it, yeah?" " I'll do my best." " All right." "Just take your time." "Keep it quiet." "No prompting, all right?" "Yeah, yeah." "Heads up." " Take a seat." " Mm-hmm." "What's that bastard doing here?" "The hierarchy gave him permission." "It's got nothing to do with me." "He's gonna do a feature article on crime squads." "Oh, the hierarchy, eh?" "Make sure he spells your name right." "Might be your name as well." "He's been asking me about one of your inquiries." "Wants to talk to you." "No." "You tell him to get fucked." "He's got permission, so you'll live with it." "I haven't got time for this shit." "Mate, I deal with thieves all the time." "Frankly, I respect a good thief." "But liars I just cannot stand." "Look." "I said I would help if I could." "And I mean it." "But how can I help if I don't know anything?" "I just want to get this over with, please." "Good." "Mr. Fleming, we're concerned with the theft of a motor vehicle, as I've mentioned." "In particular a two-tone EH Holden station wagon, registration number KCR-109." "Yeah." "I told you I don't know any... anything about it." "Have you been out of town recently?" "How recent?" "Oh, say in the last month or so." "Yes." "I-I took the train to Ballarat." "You do a bit of country traveling, do you?" "Occasionally, just to get away, you know?" "And how do you manage that on the dole?" "Well, I couldn't do it if I wasn't." "Uh, they give you cheap travel when you're unemployed and they subsidize you when you're looking for work." "Oh, that's why you're up there." "Yes." "Um, when exactly did you go to Ballarat?" "Um, two or three months ago." "I'm not sure of the date." "Well, you must have some idea." "You said you were up there looking for work." "You must have had an appointment." "No, it's, uh, seasonal work, you know?" "You just knock on the door." "I was too late." "It must have been frustrating." "Well, no, not really." "When you're alone, no job, you have to make the effort." "And what effort's that?" "Well, to get out and about and keep in tune with people, the outside world." "And what was this seasonal work?" "It was a bit of fruit picking." "What, in Ballarat?" "That's sheep country, isn't it?" "Yes." "They also grow olives up there." "So how long did you stay?" "Um, just the one night, I think." "And then I caught the train straight back." "Right." "Can you remember the date that you went, Mr. Fleming?" "It would be helpful." "Today is the 14th." "It would have been..." "Yeah." "The 21st, to the best of my recollections." "Actually, I stayed away for two nights." "No." "Not just the one." "Yeah." "Good." "Where'd you stay?" "Salvation Army hostel." "Thank God for the Salvos." "This is the car, is it?" "I'm sorry." "I don't know." "You sure?" "Well, where am I supposed to have seen it?" " You've never been in it, then?" " No." "How could I have been?" "Look, there must be thousands of those Holdens out there." "And I tell you I've never been in any of them." "Now, is that it?" "No." "No." "Not quite." "Could we get you another cup of coffee, Mr. Fleming?" "No, but look." "If this is gonna go on much longer," "I'm gonna have to have something to eat, if that's possible." "Yeah." "Sure." "I'll see what we can do." "I'm interrupting this interview for the purpose of making further inquiries." "Nothing." "Never identified a bloody thing." "How's she coping?" "Not real well." "I'm gonna get some of this stuff sent over to forensic." "I need this checked." "Oh, we're getting somewhere." "Prick admits he's been to Ballarat, does he?" "Here we go." "Train ticket to Ballarat dated the 21st." "So far, he's a truth-teller." "I've checked his local grocer." "Owner reckons he's a top bloke, and he never misses a day unless he's crook." "Always pays his bill, polite, friendly, blah-dee-fucking-blah, the sort of arsehole you really can't stand." "Some of the handwriting samples from the apartment are similar to the ones we've got." "Right." "We'll let the room keep working on him for a while." "What else?" "I got Prowse head down, arse up in the newspapers." "So far, they're all there for the relevant dates, which doesn't help our case." "And, uh, there's not much else at the moment." "I'll tell you what I'll do." "I'll get the Ballarat CIB to check out the Salvos." "And I'll give the railways a call." "No, no." "Flick it to Prowse." "Fleming's a lonely sort of person." "The more he's encouraged, the more he talks." "Let's get on with it." "John." "How you going?" "Wallsy." "What can I do for you?" "Well, Inspector Jackson said I might have a word with you." "Oh, is that right?" "That's bloody big of him." "Listen, mate." "Give me a ring later in the day." "I got an interview going at the moment." "Wouldn't be the Beecroft bloke?" "I saw his missus in here." "You know, I always thought he might've done a runner." "Now, how would you know it was his missus?" "I heard the name." "Just assumed, you know?" "No, I don't know." "It's not Beecroft, is it?" "A bigger fish." "You got a hide like a bloody rhinoceros, haven't you?" "The last story you did on this office, you published a photo you nicked off my desk." "You killed the whole bloody inquiry." "Well, no wonder you haven't been returning my calls." "Now, what makes you think I nicked it?" "Listen, mate." "Don't come in that bloody line with me." "This wouldn't have something to do with little closet copper sitting over there, would it?" "Hey, I know half the coppers in the job, including you." "Still in one piece, is he?" "Fuck off." "Interview between Detective Sergeant John Steele and Edward Rodney Fleming recommenced." "Time is now 8:48 a.m." "Detective Senior Constable Wayne Prior also present." "Mr. Fleming, have you ever heard of an Andrew Beecroft?" "Andrew Beecroft." "No, I don't think so." "Where should I know him from?" "Well, you both got something in common." " We do?" " Yeah." "You're both out of work." "I see." "Look, can I have something to eat soon?" "Yes." "It's on its way." "We'd like you to have a look at this, Mr. Fleming." "W-What is it?" "Well, what does it say?" "It's just a transfer document for a motor vehicle." "For the record, it's the transfer of ownership of Mr. Beecroft's car, registration number KCR-109." "So what's it got to do with me?" "Can you read the signatures on the bottom?" "Um, A. Beecroft and Paul..." "No." "Peter Williams." "A few months ago, Mr. Beecroft was driving to Horsham to start a new job at the local granary when, for no apparent reason, he just sold his car to a bloke called Peter Williams." "He sold it to a stool." "I don't understand." "Oh, yes, you do, Mr. Fleming." "Have another look at the transfer document." "Well, what am I supposed to be looking for?" "Williams tried to make it look like Beecroft had signed the car over to him." "Now, forensic have had a look at that document, and we know that both those signatures were forged." "Really?" "What's that got to do with me?" "Have you ever used the name Peter Williams?" "Of course not." "I've only got one name, and it's Fleming." " Ever had your name changed?" " No." "Have you used an alias?" "Absolutely not." "That's outrageous." "I ask you to have another look at those signatures." "Do you recognize either of them?" "A. Beecroft and Peter Williams." "They're just names to me." "Why am I supposed to recognize them?" "This is from my notebook." "Yes." "We picked it up at your place this morning." "What are you doing?" "Oh, come on, Mr. Fleming." "You know." "Well, you're not gonna tell me my writing's the same as these signatures." "It's like they don't even look the same." "They're both your handwriting, Mr. Fleming." "This is a lie." "I don't believe you." "What is this?" "You know much about the characteristics of handwriting, do you, Mr. Fleming?" "Please." "I don't understand." "I didn't steal any car." "I don't know any Andrew Beecroft or a Peter Williams." "Their handwriting's nothing like mine." "Look at it!" "Well, this is from a rental agreement on my flat." "What are you doing with it?" "We got it from your estate agent a while back." "Look, I think you'd better tell me exactly what this is about." "Would you care to have a look at the handwriting on the transfer document again?" "Now, our handwriting experts have made a detailed comparison." "It's your handwriting." "Well, maybe you'd better get new handwriting experts, 'cause I've never seen that slip, and I never wrote those signatures!" "We've got something else here for you." "I'd like to see if you can identify this." "It's a letter." "Yeah, it's a letter." "I hope you're not suggesting this is also my handwriting." "Well, that's what the document- examination expert states." "Well, I'm sorry, but it's completely wrong." "I've never written like that in my life." "All the writing characteristics match up, same as the ones in the other documents here." "Well, m-maybe they're the same, but I didn't write them." "I'll show you how I write." "No, no." "That's all right, Mr. Fleming." "But I must advise you that our forensic people are checking this writing paper against writing pads from your apartment to see if they're from the same source." "I did not write that letter, and that is not my paper." "And if you think you can intimidate me into saying whatever it is you want to hear, then you can think again." "No one's trying to intimidate you, Mr. Fleming." "There are just certain questions that have to be put to you." "That's my job." "Yeah." "Well, it's not much of a job." "Yes." "Well, sometimes it feels like that to me, too." "But look at the facts." "That letter was sent to Beecroft's wife about eight weeks ago." "It says that Beecroft was supposedly doing a lot of driving around." "And he was so busy that he got Williams to write the letter." "It also says that he sold his car to Williams." "Now, what does that sound like to you?" "I don't know." "It sounds a bit thin, you know, like somebody's trying to cover up." "Yes." "We think so, too." "It also sounds like somebody trying to bide their time." "And we think that somebody is Peter Williams." "So what about Beecroft?" "I mean, why can't you ask him?" "Because I'm asking you." "Now, we've got a file here from the central bureau in Sydney." "And it appears from the computer printout that you had some dealings with the police in Goulburn." "Oh, come on." "That was..." "That was 26 years ago." "I used a car for a joyride." "I was 15." "And I tried to run away from home." "I was a kid, for heaven's sake." "I was having a few problems." "I'm sorry." "What, it's a crime to be 15?" "I mean, what the hell has any of this got to do with me being here?" "!" "Well, what it's got to do with, Mr. Fleming, is that you just told us you've never used an alias." "Oh, you're joking." "Look, I don't even remember." "I mean..." "it's a common enough name." "There must be thousands of Peter Williamses around." "Yes, but there's only half a dozen ever used it as an alias." "And only one of them matches the handwriting on these documents." "You actually think you know what you're doing, don't you?" "You actually believe this." "I mean, have you ever ever..." "Even talked to Andrew Beecroft?" "I mean, have... have you ever..." "Ever even bothered?" "I'd love to." "But I'm afraid it seems that Mr. Beecroft's missing." "Oh, he's missing." "Just like that, you're telling me he's missing." "Just like that." "I want to see a solicitor." "Certainly." "No problem." "Interview interrupted for Mr. Fleming to contact a legal representative." "Do you agree that the time is now 8:59 a.m.?" "Yes, thank you." "See to it, will you, Senior Constable?" "Now, what were you running away from?" "What?" "You said you were trying to run away from home." "I have no idea." "I was 15." "You know, I tried to run away when I was 15." "I brought this little pup home from school one day." "It was a cute little thing." "Me old man, he made me drown it." "I remember it as clear as day." "Funny, isn't it, how the bad things that happen to you at that age, they seem to stay with you all your life." "I want to see a solicitor." "There's the bloody phone book." "And there's the bloody phone." "It's under "L" for "lawyer."" "His first lie." "Your old man that big a prick?" "Don't be bloody stupid, mate." "My old man would've sat there and cried if anyone had drowned a pup." "It's him." "It's bloody well him." "We'll see." "Twenty-six years ago." "We have Tommy Albarn or Ian Goldman." "He goes back that far." "I'll brief the ayatollah." "Yes, that's right." "I think we're gonna need a lot more time with him." "Pity the bloke Fleming sold the car to died." "We had him by the balls." "Well, you've still got his statement." "Yeah, but that's not gonna do us much good, is it, in court without the man himself?" "Well, his description doesn't quite look like Fleming to me." "Well, they asked me about a stolen car." "And then they said that the owner was missing." "And they keep on about handwriting." "I don't know what's happening." "I can't handle it." "We've got enough to charge him with theft of the motor vehicle." "The decision is, can we take it any further?" "How sure are you about this?" "I mean, we barked up the wrong tree on this one before." "Jesus." "What do you mean, "we"?" "That wasn't my stump-up." "No, I won't." "Okay." "There'll be someone here soon." "Well... you can wait for them in your birdcage." "How's his demeanor?" "Wants to see a solicitor, so we have to wait for that." "But you can't shut him up, so he's tying himself to a story." "Well, don't let him go cold." "All finished?" "Christ, it's like a fucking railway station around here." "Thought I told you to piss off." "Oh, come on." "You know I can be of help to you here." "I got my sources." "I can be useful." "More ways than one." "Better get rid of this arsehole, will you?" "Make yourself scarce." "So had a cup of tea with supergrass, did you?" "Don't be a silly bastard." "I wouldn't put him in that category." "Oh, he might tell me who he was rooting, but not who you got in the interview room." "No, I need to get a bit more on him before I can get him over that line yet." "You arsehole." "Where do you blokes do training on interview techniques?" "Well, funny you should mention that, because I was told that some of the young D's think their sergeants need a refresher course in interviewing to bring them up to scratch." "Really?" "Really." "You do know which side your bread's buttered, don't you?" "See you later." "Let's stretch our legs a bit." "Where are we going?" "Who the fuck do you think you are?" "You've been in the job for five fucking minutes, and you think you know everything." "You say another word about me or this investigation behind my back, and I'll have you transferred out of here for good." " You understand?" " What?" "You understand?" "!" "Yeah." "Okay." "Okay." "What's the problem, mate?" "Loyalty is what I expect, mate." "And don't you ever forget it!" " What?" " All right?" "Don't you ever gamble my future 'cause you think you know more or you can get away with something." "I've seen more shit than you can possibly imagine, all right?" "All right." "What's this all about, huh?" "Talk to me." "Talk to me, Steele." "Mate, there are too many people around here with their own agendas." "Don't..." "Don't you make the same mistake." "Refresher course, my arse." "Well, it's no good getting excited about handwriting." "It's highly disputable in a courtroom." "It's not even a science." "It's just one expert's opinion against another's." "They know it." "Yeah, but why are they doing this to me?" "Well, what's more important is, can you verify where you were and what you were doing at the time?" "Well, yes." "I took the train to Ballarat." "I told them where I stayed." "They can check... check it all." "That puts you in the vicinity at the time." "So I advise you to make absolutely no comment, Mr. Fleming." "I know how these bastards operate." "But I never saw the car, let alone this missing person." "Well, they're going nowhere with that." "There's dozens of reasons why people go missing, usually domestic or financial." "Well, is that all?" "I mean, isn't there anything else you can do?" "Learn to the say the words "No comment."" "Right." "And how long can they hold me?" "Unfortunately, it's what they call reasonable time." "For a stolen car, say five or six hours." "It's up to them." "I don't think I can handle it." "Can you stay with me?" "Uh, well... if I stay, which, of course, I can, they'll subpoena me, and I'll have to be a witness for them." "Now, I'm on your side, not theirs." "Well, so isn't there anything you can do to get me out?" "It's just a waiting game, Mr. Fleming." "You let them do all the work." "They either have to present all their evidence for you to refute or they charge you." "So long as you offer no comment, they're not necessarily going to get any more than they already have." "Knowing these people, they've probably got stuff-all." "I haven't done anything." "No, you wouldn't be the first person." "And under no circumstances agree to an ID parade." "All right." "Time." "You're in deep shit, you fucking wanker." "And you're gonna take the fucking consequences!" "Now, wake up to yourself." "Now, you've seen your solicitor, and she's told you to say nothing." "How do you know that?" "Oh, that's what they all say." "And she'll be going out to lunch soon, and you're still here." "Interview between Detective Sergeant John Steele and Edward Rodney Fleming recommenced at 9:48 a.m." "Detective Senior Constable Wayne Prior also present." "You must understand, Mr. Fleming, that what we deal with are facts." "And the facts are that a car's been stolen." "And I'll give you the opportunity to respond, but if you can't negate these facts, then it leaves us, really, with only one course of action to take." "Your handwriting has been identified on the transfer document." "Do you understand?" "No comment." "The transfer document is in relation to vehicle registration number KCR-109." "Do you know this vehicle?" "No, I don't." "You have been identified in the company of the registered owner of that vehicle, who is a missing person." "Identified?" "By who?" "What, now I'm supposed to have been with someone" "I've never even heard of?" "All I'm doing, Mr. Fleming, is advising you of the evidence we're in possession of." "I'm giving you the opportunity to respond." "You get better all the time." "What evidence?" "I've just explained to you the relevant facts." "You were in the location that the car was stolen from." "Let me make it clearer for you." "Mr. Beecroft left the city in his car on the 21st of January." "He drove to Ballarat and on to Horsham." "You must understand, Mr. Fleming, that this is all a matter of record." "This has all been verified." "Now, there's a roadhouse outside Ballarat." "The owner of the establishment was there, and he said that there was somebody with Mr. Beecroft." "And that somebody's description fits you." "Oh, you must be joking." "I mean, if there is someone at all, then he's made a mistake." "I tell you, he's wrong." "I don't think he is, Mr. Fleming." "How many roadhouses are around the place?" "How many attendants?" "You just happened to find someone who describes me?" "I mean, w-what's that?" "Average height, average build..." "Mr. Average?" "If you feel that strongly about it," "I'd be more than happy to organize an identification parade." "If you're not picked, end of story." "Well, I can see where you're heading." "But, I mean, there's no point in having a solicitor and then going against her advice." "It's up to you." "You really are a corrupt little man, aren't you?" "We are giving you the opportunity to respond to the facts." "A fellow in a roadhouse, he'd probably forget his own name." "What..." "What favors did you give him?" "We don't buy witnesses, Mr. Fleming." "Your description was given to us by this witness." "And your handwriting identifies you as the person handling the stolen car." "See, I've read about unsolved crimes." "You have to clear them from your books, so you charge someone." "That's what this is all about, isn't it?" "Is it?" "Yeah." "The newspapers are full of it." "You know, unsolved crimes..." "murders, what have you." "Maybe, Mr. Fleming." "But murder?" "That's a bit much." "A man with no job or prospects, you know, lives alone, goes up to the country now and then." "It's perfect for you." "Beecroft and his car go missing." "And you're right, Sergeant." "It doesn't look good." "Is there anyone else you're looking for?" "My God, you know?" "Went for a joyride as a kid, and now I'm a car thief." "God knows what else." "As I said, the letter signed Peter Williams plus the transfer of ownership from Mr. Beecroft to a Peter Williams are both in your handwriting." "Must have been uncomfortable." "All that driving around in the heat, summer, asking questions." "So now you have nothing, huh?" "You're looking to save your own skins." "It won't work." "I haven't been to Horsham for years." "As I've told you, I haven't been out of town except for Ballarat." "You show me where I've ever had enough money to get to Horsham." "We have witnesses who saw you, Mr. Fleming." "Witnesses who saw someone like me... so you say." "The time is now 9:57 a.m." "I'm interrupting this interview for the purpose of making further inquiries." "Perhaps one witness could be discredited, you fuckwit." "But not three." "Beecroft is missing." "I have heard his name before." "It's been in the papers." "You think he's dead, don't you?" "You think that I had something to do with it." "No, no." "No." "No one's accusing you of that." "As far as I'm concerned, you're just helping us with our inquiries into a stolen car." "It would be logical to think that I knew something of his whereabouts." "Wouldn't it?" "Why?" "Do you?" "No." "How many times do I have to tell you?" "Do I have to swear on the Bible or something?" "The bigger the oath, the bigger the lie." "Like the man said, it's about a fucking stolen fucking car, you fucking fuckwit." "Well, is he allowed to talk to me like that?" "I'll talk to you how I want." "Now, you're fucked for the car, and we're gonna charge you for it." "So you may as well tell us about it, and we won't oppose bail." "As I said, we're only interested in the stolen car." "I don't believe you." "And who else is missing, hmm?" "Four or five?" "All those people the papers have been going berserk over." "That's where you're headed." "You're so bloody desperate, you picked on me, some nobody who lives on his own." "I'm not stupid, Sergeant, and you know it, so don't patronize me." "What I want to know is who the hell do you people think you are?" "You either charge me or you let me out of here." "Well..." "look." "It's not as simple as that." "Well, if you believe this nonsense, then you prove it." "You know there's only one real way to do that, don't you?" "What's that?" "Find his body." "Exactly how long have you had him?" "Five hours." "You were brought in to get results, John." "This is not going our way, and now we've got his solicitor on our back." "No bother with his solicitor." "It's 60-40 our way." "Just no admissions yet." "Not strong enough." "We run with that and you're wrong, it'll cost the department thousands." "You can't do better than this, we'll have to let him go." "No way." "Not while he's still talking." "Half an hour." "That's it." "Any longer, we're heading into deep water." "He's made mention of a body." "Body?" "Whose body?" "Why didn't you say this straight out?" "He said we'll never find Beecroft's body." "We'd like to run with it a bit longer." "Are you serious?" "That's what we said." "He say this on tape?" "No, no." "He's a bit too clever for that." "The tapes were off." "He give you any idea where the body might be?" "No." "Give you anything else?" "Yes." "The five other missing people in similar circumstances." "And he brought that one up himself." "What?" "Where he is now?" "He's upstairs." "He's agreed to be fingerprinted." "Why?" "We've already got them on file." "Any IDs from prints, crime-scene section?" "No, not yet." "We need a new set." "Don't lie to me, John." "You're kicking into the wind." "You wouldn't have let him out of that interview room for two seconds if he was running like that." "I'm the one in there." "Don't tell me how to run it." "We needed to back off a bit." "He was starting to take control." "You got nothing to go on, have you?" "You can't afford any more complaints." "It'll be your arse hanging out in the breeze." "You needn't look around for me this time." "This time?" "With respect, sir, you just told me I was brought in here to get results." "Two hours." "That's it." "Get out of here." " Have you check the graph?" " Not yet." "I'm still running through the papers." "Come on!" "Then flick it to Max or someone." "Shit." "Now, why are they all harmless middle-aged people?" "What the bloody hell happened to him back in Darwin?" "What's he acting out here?" "Any markings, drawings?" "N'est-ce pas, Sergeant." "Just crosswords." "Nothing of value." "All right." "We're running out of time." "If we don't come up with something in the next two hours between forensics and newspapers, we're gonna have to let him go." " Two hours?" " So no more bloody threats." "I haven't threatened the prick yet." "Don't talk shit." "We treat him with kid gloves." "Now, it's going all right." "Fucking bullshit!" "He hasn't admitted a damn thing!" "Hasn't he?" "Think about it." "What sort of person says, "Find his body," eh?" "Would an innocent person in a place like this even think in those terms?" "Induction and deduction." "They still teach that, don't they?" "Do you want my left hand?" "Yes." "Just a couple more, Mr. Fleming." "That's it." "Thank you." "What about this one?" "What do you call 40 lawyers at the bottom of Port Phillip Bay?" "A good start." "He's a live one." "All done?" "Look, I'm trying to help, okay?" "I just wish you'd listen to me." "Yes." "I know, Mr. Fleming." "It is appreciated." "Now, let's go back downstairs." "Oh, not again." "Is that really necessary?" "Is there anything we can get for you, Mr. Fleming?" "Anything you need?" "Yep." "Ticket out of here." "And for the young gent's time, some food." "Looks like a lot of success, doesn't it?" "Oh, yeah." "A few keepsakes." "Highlights of various investigations, you know." "Trophies, huh?" "Heroes?" "What, are you interested in what we do?" "Yeah, certainly." "It's a..." "It's a very, uh, courageous job to go up against people who are desperate." "And what makes you think they're all desperate?" "Oh, you know, just what you read, you know?" "Ah, your newspapers." "Yeah." "I suppose that's part of it." "What do you mean?" "I don't know." "Just seems like an exciting job." " Not all the fucking time." " Now, hang on, hang on." "Mr. Fleming is trying to help us." "What do you mean, Mr. Fleming?" "You remember that bloke Sanders year before last?" "He..." "He killed all those people in Sydney?" "Yeah, I-I remember reading about that case." "Yeah." "Bloody amazing." "Yeah." "Nobody knows why he did it." "You study these stories, do you?" "Is it a serious interest?" "Sometimes if there's not much to do," "I collect all the newspaper stories and see what I can fathom from it all." " Why is that, mate?" " Oh, it's an interest." "It's always built into something bigger than it is." "I'm not quite with you, Mr. Fleming." "Yes, you are." "You know what I mean." "Every time someone writes about a murder, right, they look for some apocalyptic reason for the killing." "People have to try to make some sort of sense of it, don't they?" "Is that what you do?" "You try and make sense of it?" "And I bet there's dozens of murders on your computer, you know, that have no tangible reason." "I mean, let's face it..." "Some people kill other people, full stop." "You got me in here." "What a joke." "People just go ahead and do it, you know?" "Sometimes maybe for a few dollars, maybe for nothing." "They just seem to go for it, you know, pure and simple." "You really believe that crap?" "No, no, no." "You could be right." "Some of them leave you wondering." "It's not too hard to work out." "We were just talking to the expert who took your fingerprints." "I'll bet they match the ones on your file." "Yes." "Of course." "So what does that mean?" "It means we will have to charge you with theft of the motorcar." "A car?" "Who cares about a car?" "I thought we were talking about more important things." "What about kidnapping and murder?" "No, no, no, no." "No, I've yet to be convinced, Mr. Fleming." "Convinced." "Then what am I doing here?" "Well, I like to keep an open mind." "You got that from your father, did you?" "We're all what our parents make us, Mr. Fleming." "Are you ready to talk about Goulburn yet?" "Oh." "Must have been good if you don't want to talk about it." "I'm starving." "I'm starving." "Let's eat, eh?" "And..." "I'll draw you a diagram." "A diagram of what?" "Where I put them." "What do you mean by "them?"" "No, no." "I want to eat, please." "All right." "All right." "We'll send out." "Just out of interest's sake, uh, how many were there?" "No." "This is very civilized." "This is very civilized." "Where'd you send out for this?" "Just upstairs in the canteen." "You're not joining us?" "No, I'm, uh, I'm not hungry." "Thanks." "Oh, you don't know what you're missing." "Well, let's get on with it." "I can..." "I can eat while I talk." "Interview between Detective Sergeant John Steele and Edward Rodney Fleming recommenced." "Detective Senior Constable Wayne Prior also present." "Mr. Fleming, I intend to ask you some questions in relation to a missing person." "Do you agree that the time is now 11:18 a.m.?" "Mr. Fleming has nodded in agreement." "Is that correct, Mr. Fleming?" "Yes." "Good." "For you to, uh, draw the diagram." "Right." "Well..." "look." "The whole thing, right, what I was on about before..." "What's that?" "The..." "The newspapers?" "Yeah, ridiculous stories." "Every time something serious happens, you think there has to be some elaborate motive, you know?" "What do you really know about people's motives?" "Where's it gonna lead you?" "Well, hopefully the person we're looking for." "That's rubbish." "Take Beecroft." "What motive was there?" "Hmm?" "You was lucky." "You got in your big car and you drove 'round the place." "What were you doing?" "Emu duty." "You were going from one scrap to another." "And there." "Now you've found me." "What's the big reason?" "What was my motive?" "You tell me." "Motive for what?" "You tell me." "You're still on emu duty." "You can't see it." "There's no reason for it." "Motive." "You want a motive?" "All right." "I was a bit short of cash." "Beecroft came along." "It was his time." "What do you mean by "his time"?" "Well, to grin at the lid." "What lid?" "Well, the coffin lid." "Can you pass the mayonnaise, please?" "So how did you meet, uh, Beecroft, Mr. Fleming?" "Well... once I went to Ballarat, I checked into the Salvos." "And then, quite late in the day, I went walking." "And before you know it," "I'm looking for a lift outside of the city on the Western Highway without a cent to my name." "I wanted to get up to Stawell 'cause I thought I might get a job up there." "And this bloke gave me a lift." "And had you ever met him before?" "No, never." "He was heading to Horsham, so he said he'd be glad to take me." "Make a wish." "We stopped for petrol up around Ararat." "I saw he had some money in his wallet, so I guess that's where I got the idea." "Idea for what?" "Well, killing him." "Now, see, this should give you a good idea of what I was talking about." "You don't need a big reason to kill somebody, right?" "Beecroft had $38." "Right?" "Suppose you told that to somebody..." "Killing a bloke for $38." "It wouldn't have a lot of appeal, would it?" "You'd be told you should do it for a lot of money or revenge, 'cause, you know, you've always got to have a good motive." "It's rubbish." "You just do it 'cause you can." "Are you saying you killed Beecroft?" "Yeah, I guess so." "There's a little gully up there just outside of Stawell." "Now, we picked up a bottle of scotch, and we drank some on the way." "So how did you kill Beecroft, Mr. Fleming?" "It's pretty weird, that one." "We're just outside of Stawell, and by now it's getting dark." "And I spotted this little gully." "So I got him to, uh, pull in." "Told him I wanted to relieve myself, seeing how we'd had a bit too much to drink." "By now it was beginning to rain, and there was this sort of lean-to next to these trees on the end, you know, middle of nowhere." "Are you prepared to direct us to the location?" "Yeah." "Yeah." "Sure." "We lit this small fire." "We sat and talked and finished the bottle and fell asleep." "What, the both of you?" "Yeah." "That's the weird bit." "Well, I guess I killed Beecroft, all right." "But... actually, I didn't mean to." "What do you mean, you didn't mean to?" "You just told us that you had the idea when you saw him open up his wallet." "Yeah." "I had the idea, all right." "But that's all it was." "Well, we both went to sleep." "Must have been around 11:00." "I'm not really sure 'cause of all the booze and everything." "And, uh, I started having these weird dreams, these nightmares, you know?" "Now, this part sounds like a story." "But I swear to God, it's the truth." "I had these nightmares." "And I woke up..." "and they was still all there." "Who was still all there?" "All these people all around me, people everywhere." "You know?" "I-I must have been still asleep." "And what'd you do then?" "I picked up this bit of iron by the fire, and I started swinging." "It was quite strange, 'cause I knew every one of those faces." "What were they?" "Previous victims of yours?" "Yeah." "People I've met." "Yeah." "There were only a few of them, but it seemed like there were hundreds all around in the air." "And I felt a cold sweat at once, you know?" "I saw Beecroft." "And I swung harder, and I kept swinging." "And he didn't even make a sound." "He had his eyes closed." "And I just..." "I caved in his head." "When I woke up, he was on the floor." "And... all the people had disappeared, you know?" "They never came back." "And what'd you do then?" "I pulled Beecroft outside, and I buried him." "Then I-I buried his clothes." "I took his wallet and car, and I took off." "Can you draw us that diagram of where you buried him?" "Yeah." "Well, here's the Western Highway." "Ararat." "Stawell." "Horsham's up here, uh, just about there." "I was really starving." "Thanks." "And what about the others, Mr. Fleming?" "Others." "I..." "Look." "I don't recall them too clearly." "It's what I..." "It's what I mentioned before." "All those missing people, you know?" "There's a couple in the Western District and the rest along the New South Wales border." "It just happens that way." "There's no particular reason." "Can you remember any of them?" "No." "I can't recall exactly." "But there was this one bloke, though, that stands out quite a bit." "Can't really remember his name." "What a wimp." "Oh, he was, eh?" "Well... he picked me up in his car near Portsea." "And, um, we got a bit of, uh, takeaway food and something to drink." "And, um, later on, I got him to pull over." "And, um, I beat the..." "I beat the shit out of him with a piece of wood." "And he was pathetic." "He was complaining and whingeing, crying, you know?" "And why'd you beat the shit out of him?" "What happened?" "Nothing, you know?" "I buried him in the sand." "Now, see, he was one of those people that I saw." "Just goes to show you how the mind works, doesn't it?" "I don't know, Mr. Fleming." "How does the mind work?" "Mm." "I've heard a lot of people talk about killing." "I've always wondered what it must feel like." "Nothing." "I mean, there's nothing to it." "To have that sort of power over another person." "Not really." "It's remarkably easy." "So, where exactly did you bury him?" "I'd, uh, I'd have to show you that one." "It was in the dunes." "Is there any other people you'd like to tell us about, Mr. Fleming?" "Uh, no, not really." "You know, I could tell you five or six." "All a bit the same, really." "When did the first one occur?" "A couple of years ago." "And the first was the same as the last." "You know, I'd belt whoever with something, and that'd be it." "It's a very..." "It's a very insignificant thing... you know." "But you know what?" "It didn't change me." "You know, it didn't change me at all." "That's why I say it's all built up." "Have you ever been ill, Mr. Fleming?" "Have you... you seen a doctor or been in a hospital or anything?" "No, not really." "Why?" "A psychiatrist?" "No." "I'm not mad." "So you knew what you were doing, then?" "Yes." "Of course." "Did it ever bother you?" "Ever?" "No." "Only..." "Only the dream with Beecroft." "And I think that's..." "I think that was 'cause of all the booze." "That was a great meal." "Thanks a lot." "Fine." "I intend to interrupt this interview for the purpose of making further inquiries." "When we do recommence, it'll be in relation to the Beecroft death in detail, which will be recorded on video." "Sure." "I suppose I always knew you'd find me..." "I guess." "I always knew." "Thank you." "Aren't you having one?" "No." "I don't smoke." "You've waited a long time to share that with someone, haven't you, Mr. Fleming?" "You winning?" "Yeah." "Some game." "How good is this, John?" "I mean, suddenly he puts his hand up." "You sure he's not a chronic confessor?" "No, not this one." "Cozing up to a mind like Fleming's makes you feel sick in the guts." "If it's half as good as it sounds," "I'll personally write you up for a commissioner's commendation." "No, thanks." "There's a long way to go yet." "I'm gonna be tied up in this for weeks..." "Interviews, re-enactments, getting the brief together." "Well, Prior's rounding up the shrink." " Any other assistance you need?" " Yeah." "We're gonna need the video camera for the interview room, the mobile lab photographics for his apartment, and we're gonna need another search warrant." "I tell you, this bloke's gonna run on insanity." "Good old M'Naghten's rules." "Yep." "He was suffering disease of the mind to such an extent, he didn't know what he was doing was wrong." "That's up to him to prove." "Yeah." "Well, it's not gonna be fucking hard, is it?" "Barry Walls had a chat to me." "I said you might have something for the morning edition." "Oh, Jesus." "Why'd you do that?" "I'm gonna be tied up here till midnight as it is." "Well, I understand that." "But I don't want to finish up with egg on my face." "Jesus." "You can't help yourself, can you?" "You leaked the story to him before I even knew I had the right man." "No." "I simply told him that you were looking at the missing persons that he and others were writing about." "What you want to tell him is up to you." "Everybody wants to be famous." "You're in deep shit, you fucking wanker." "And you're gonna take the fucking consequences!" "Now, wake up to yourself." "Like the man said, it's about a fucking stolen fucking car, you fucking fuckwit." "Well, is he allowed to talk to me like that?" "I'll talk to you how I want." "Now, you're fucked for the car, and we're gonna charge you for it." "So you may as well tell us about it, and we won't oppose bail." "Well, that's a threat, too." "What's more, it's inducement and intimidation." "How could they be so stupid?" "Plus, it's the same terminology as the other complaints." "Sir, it's Prior, not Steele." "Steele is teaching bad habits to his subordinates." "They're acting in concert." "The video proves that." "Defense counsel is gonna eat them with this." "Are you seriously considering putting this man back on the street?" "That's where he's going to end up without a conviction." "And we're not gonna get one with this, in which case we've lost him forever or until he kills again." "I realize that, sir." "But they've got him, and he's a real psycho." "In whose judgment?" "And what if the court decides he's not?" "Which they might." "I mean, look at him for Christ's sake." "He'd confess to killing his own mother for five minutes of attention." "I hope you're right." "Look at this." "As far as I'm concerned, you're just helping us with our inquiries into a stolen vehicle." "It would be logical to think that I knew something of his whereabouts." "Wouldn't it?" "Why?" "Do you?" "No." "No." "How many..." "They had only read him his rights on the stolen car." "They've assured him he's not accused of anything else." "And now Steele starts to question him about a missing person." "This isn't even gonna get into a courtroom." "The DPP will throw it out." "If they don't, the judge will." "Sir, it's only one question in response to what he's volunteered." "I know." "It doesn't matter." "The law requires them to play fair." "Now, they've stood behind the suspect." "They've stood over him in a threatening manner and have refused him food what, three, four times?" "We've got nothing." "Could we look at it again, sir?" "We can't put this man back on the street." "Well, you tell that to Steele, because that's exactly what he's just done." "Do you know how many times the ethics committee have had to look at him?" "Because he gets results?" "Mr. Fleming, I intend to ask you further questions in relation to the disappearance of Mr. Andrew Beecroft on or about the 21st of January this year." "I must warn you that you are not obliged to say or do anything, but anything you say or do may be given in evidence." "Do you understand that?" "Yes." "You have the right to communicate with or attempt to communicate with a friend or relative to advise that person of your whereabouts." "And you may communicate with or attempt to communicate with a legal practitioner." "Do you wish to contact any of these persons?" "No, no." "I'm done with it." "Do you agree that you've already made certain admissions to me in regard to the disappearance of Mr. Andrew Beecroft?" "Yes." "Well, I've told you what I've done." "Can you again tell me what those admissions are?" "Yes." "Um, of course, I went to the local shop and, of course, to Ballarat, where I stayed with the Salvos." "Yes, but more specifically, in relation to Mr. Beecroft." "Oh, yes." "What's the question?" "You said earlier that on the 21st of January, you hitched a lift in an EH Holden station wagon, registration number KCR-109, driven by Mr. Andrew Beecroft." "Well, as I've said," "I don't recall the make or the color of the car." "But yes, I did get a lift outside Ballarat at that time." "And you further stated that you killed Andrew Beecroft with a blow to the head with a iron bar." "Gentlemen." "Sir, this is Mr. Edward Fleming." "Mr. Fleming, I'd like you to meet." "Detective Inspector Jackson." "Mr. Fleming, how are you?" "Well, I'm, uh, still alive, but I'd rather be at home." "You being treated okay?" "Have they got you refreshments, a meal?" "Uh, this is still part of the formal interview, isn't it?" "Yes." "The tape's still running." "I'm just ensuring that you're okay and that you're being treated properly." "Well, no, I'm not okay." "What's the problem?" "I'd like to t-talk to Yolanda if that's all right." "If you have a problem, I'd like you to state it now." "Well, I wish you'd come in hours ago." "They broke into my house at 5:00 this morning, bashed me, and brought me here." "I've been trying to help where I can, but they..." "They just won't listen." "What do you mean?" "All this business about a stolen car." "As I've already told these gentlemen," "I know nothing about a stolen car or this mysterious Mr. Beecroft who appears to be missing." "You've just confessed to six murders and described in detail how you met Beecroft, murdered him, and disposed of his body." "What do you say to that, Mr. Fleming?" "Is that correct?" "Sergeant, you know as well as I do that I only told you what you wanted to hear." "You said you wanted to be convinced." "What do you mean?" "Uh, Detective Inspector, these... policemen have held me here all day." "I concocted a story from what they told me..." "That Beecroft and his car went missing around Stawell." "I even told them I'd draw a map just so that I could get a meal, because the only way I could get a meal and be allowed to eat it was to tell them what they wanted to hear." "Look at them." "They lapped it up." "Couldn't get enough of it." "Are you telling me that the admissions that you made to Sergeant Steele in relation to the theft of the murder vehicle and the murder of Mr. Beecroft and others was a story you made up to get a meal?" "Inspector Jackson..." "I did go to Ballarat." "I do, uh, go to the local shop." "I do stay with the Salvos." "I do live on my own." "But I've not, um, stolen any car, let alone killed anybody!" "I mean... can you accept that, please?" "Because these people won't." "I hear what you're saying, Mr. Fleming." "But if you lied before, how do I know you're not lying now?" "Because I've been, uh, scared out of my mind sitting in here." "And they know it." "No one believed that I had nothing to do with the car." "That man threatened me, and that man did nothing to help me." "I told them what they wanted to hear." "Now I've decided I'm not gonna say anything else." "So you either charge me or you let me out of here right now." "Sergeant Steele, I want you to conclude this interview and see me in my office." "I'm concluding this interview." "Is there anything else you wish to say?" "I've don't nothing wrong, and I have a great deal to say about it, but not here and not to you." "You fucking dog." "We both know what you've done." "You've got no hope on going back on what you said." "You're gone." "You just wanted me to share it so badly, didn't you?" "It's a good story while it lasted." "I'm no killer, you stupid bastard." "Fuck." "Fuck, fuck, fucking lying bloody arsehole!" "Fucking bastard lying fucking bastard!" " What?" " Turn around." "I've just got one word for you." " Yeah?" "What?" " Toecutters." "Are they on me now?" "Yep." "What have you done?" "Nothing." "He's a smartarse, and he somersaulted us." "What have you got?" "We can tie him to the car." "We've got enough to charge him with theft of the car." "We can put him in the vicinity where the person went missing." "We've got a witness who can identify him." "We've got expert evidence of it being in his handwriting on the transfer document and Mrs. Beecroft's letter." "I've got three fingerprints on the transfer document, and we've also got his own admission." "Sir, if you heard the tapes, you would believe him." "If we had the body, we could charge him with murder now." "You heard him make an official complaint over threats in that interview room." "If those complaints are proven, then any admission he did make would be inadmissible, and I'll have your fucking balls, mate." "Admissions?" "You want admissions?" "They're as fucking long as your arm." "He was just about to get back into it till you barged in." "It's our word against his." "It's as simple as that." "I am going to get a statement of formal complaint from Mr. Fleming." "You can put together a brief of evidence relating to the theft of a motorcar." "If I think you've got enough evidence, he can be summoned for that offense at a later date." "Yes, sir." "But what about the murders?" "What other avenues have you got going?" "Stawell Police and CIB is searching for the location that Fleming drew as well as any other location that resembles the description that he gave." "That's it?" "If he somersaulted you, that's likely to be bullshit too." "Sir, this man is a serial killer." "Mate, I am on your side." "But any further decisions are gonna be made upstairs." "And unfortunately, I assure you, as things are, they are gonna be harder to convince than me." "Well, I want to come with you." "That won't be necessary." "They're gonna let him walk." "Just goes to show you how the mind works, doesn't it?" "I don't know, Mr. Fleming." "How does the mind work?" "Mm." "I've listened to a lot of people talk about killing, and I've often wondered what it must feel like." "Nothing." "There's nothing to it." "Well, there must be." "You know, to... to have that power over another person." "Look at him." "He gets off on it." "Sir, we don't have to show them our tapes." "Most of these conversations happened when their audio tapes were off." "Their tapes are clean." "It's only ours that have a record of this." "That's the ethics committee's decision, not ours." "And I can't see them withholding the tapes from the DPP, the ombudsman, or his defense counsel." "What did you mean by blueprint?" "His favorite porno mag and movie... that sort of thing." "Why pornography?" "Well, if it's not that, it's something equally as tasteful." "The trouble with crooks is they've got no imagination." "There are only three ways to learn to do the kind of shit that we have to clean up." "Either someone done it to you, you read about it, or you've seen it on some video." "Now, this story on Maria Garabaldi was published on the 7th." "We fed it to the media on the 6th, and she was reported missing on the 3rd." "On the 3rd." "That bastard!" "Bloody country editions." "Where are those fucking dates?" "You idiot!" "Haven't you matched the dates people went missing with the actual paper?" "Yes, but I didn't know I was looking for country editions!" "This was your responsibility to brief him properly." "All right, everybody." "Heads up." "Gordon, Pitney, Johnson, come over here." "Lend a hand, please." "Right." "Here's a list of the dates all our people went missing." "Check the dates with the newspaper." "If it's not a country edition, check the dates on the papers up to four days previous." "Roger Lee was reported missing on the 22nd of June." "Here, sir." "It's a city edition." "Here's the 21st country edition." "I bet we can match a country edition to every disappearance." "Bloody beautiful." "At least Jackson can't turn him loose now." "Should be enough to save his ass, get him a bit of glory." "Next time, start with the bit that matters." "Yeah?" "I've got to beef this up a bit, so I'll need your support." "You can count on me." "Sir, we've got him." "It's circumstantial, but it's good circumstantial." "It's too fucking late." "He's bloody gone?" "We can put him in the bush every day our people went missing." "Shut up." "It's what we needed, sir." "Shut up." "Would you mind waiting in the office?" "Toecutters." "They've had you under video surveillance since you walked into that room this morning." "You're fucking joking." "Why?" "From what they say, your whole interview is inadmissible." "I'd have thought you'd known better than that, especially in a case like this." "We haven't touched a hair on his head." "Nobody has laid a finger on him." "And if they've been videoing, they'll know it." "They say you've used threats, intimidation, and inducement." "We didn't touch the bastard." "Did you know they were taping us?" "No, and I don't like it any better than you do." " Unbelievable." " So where do you stand?" "And what's happening here?" "Fleming walks." "But the shadow is in tow." "You are to brief Sergeant Quinlan's crew." "She will be taking over the Fleming investigation." "You arsehole." "You've rigged us upstairs, haven't you?" "I'm brought in here to get results, to make you look good on an investigation that's gone nowhere." "All you do is tie me hands." "You lie." "You cheat." "You leak information." "You're a fucking disgrace." "You're supposed to be one of us." "You make me sick." "You want your name in the newspapers?" "How about "Police release serial killer,"" "with your name all over it?" "I'm aware that you have counseled Prior about his behavior in the interview room." "And I will stand up for you." "But don't threaten me." "Oh, fuck you." "I'm not gonna cop this holier-than-thou shit from you." "I've gone from being the Lord Mayor to the shit carter in about two hours." "Watch out Fleming doesn't come and cut your throat." "I'm sure that we're in." "I have to advise you we have been videotaping you all day under instructions from the ethics committee." "From my observations, you have a disregard of the law and a total disregard of the judge's rules." "I'm instructing you that I will be formally interviewing both of you in relation to these matters." "Do you intend interviewing us about criminal or departmental matters?" "Possibly both." "I don't believe this." "You have any idea of what you're doing?" "I thought I could ask you the same question." "You're in enough trouble without adding insubordination to the list." "If you'd been watching all day, you'd know he's knocked at least five or six." "Those matters will be dealt with by other police." "It's not our concern." "Well, it should be, because it means he'll do it again as sure as you're sitting there." "What we've done, sir, is to gather enough evidence to take one of the most dangerous men I've ever interviewed off the street." "It's been a very difficult investigation." "And with someone as plausible and as devious as this man, the interview is crucial." "As far as I'm concerned, we've conducted it within the specifications of the law." "And as far as I'm concerned, we don't break the law to enforce it." "Oh, for Christ's sake." "If you can't see what's wrong with putting this man back on the street, you're fucked in the head, and I hope it comes to visit you." "Shouldn't take you long to brief the other team." "I'll be waiting." "I was genuinely frightened." "They weren't in the least bit interested in what I had to say." "At what point did you become frightened?" "Well, from the moment they broke down my door and hit me." "I see." "And they humiliated me by making me strip." "I don't know how many times I asked for food." "It's the sort of thing you r-read about in the newspapers all the time, but they're always supposed to be crooks." "So you... you just don't think about it." "Are you saying that there's no truth to the admissions regarding Mr. Beecroft and others?" "I didn't say anything that they didn't lead me to." "You gave a lot of specific details, Mr. Fleming." "And you volunteered them." "Look." "I made it up." "I'm sorry." "I know it was stupid." "I just got so bloody angry." "Have a look at this." "Yeah, right." "He's done these six for sure." "Where are you?" "Well, I've got something for you, and it's very bloody tropical." "No." "Now." "Right now." "What's he like?" "Any history?" "Nothing." "Thinks he's smarter and more clever than anyone else." " Any bodies?" " No." "He gets rid of them in isolated areas..." "So isolated we can't find them." "It's here." "I'm being fucked." "This is the bloke they're letting go." "Is this the interview tape?" "Yeah." "Christ." "Are you sure you want to go through with this?" "Mate, people don't go from pinching cars at 15 years of age to killing half a dozen people 26 years later without a whole lot of other shit in between." "Well, how much time have you spent with him?" "Enough to know he's a killer." "They'll have your badge and gun, mate." "Mate, they think they've already got them." "And I haven't started with those blokes yet." "Alice Morewood." "Family from Cavendish." "Couple of kids still at school." "Her old man's a bit of a redneck." "She was last seen shopping in Horsham on June the 12th last year." "She was driving a Toyota Corona." "There's been a lot of rumors around town that she nicked off with another bloke." "It's bullshit." "Is he in the frame for anything else?" "The most revealing thing we've got is his record of interview." "You listen to that, and it'll curl your hair." "There goes your man." "Oh, he likes you." "Jackson will put him through deprocessing." "After that, the shadows are sitting off outside." " They'll take him away." " How many?" "Two crews of four around the clock." "Any connection between the people he's targeted?" "No." "Nothing you can put your finger on." "Just that he's got a taste for ordinary, decent people." "We realize it's been eight hours, Mr. Fleming." "We just need a few more details." "Am I being charged?" "Not at this point in time." "Can I get my belongings back, please?" "Sergeant Steele, you are not being cautioned at this stage." "However, the conversation is being tape-recorded." "If you refuse or decline to answer our questions, you will be charged with disobeying a lawful instruction." "Apart from Mr. Fleming's, we have signed complaints from other people as well." "Well, I could get people to sign things" "I'd written up, too." "Yes." "We are aware of that." "I said I could, not I did." "It demonstrates a pattern to the way you operate, Mr. Steele." "You permitted Prior to abuse, assault, intimidate, make false promises to, and threaten Mr. Fleming." "All right." "Is that a question?" "If it is, which part do you want me to answer first?" "Furthermore, it could be said that you conspired with Prior to pervert the course of justice and set up an innocent man." "No comment." "Sergeant, I'm talking about your conduct as the senior officer in the interview room and the threats, both physical and verbal, that the two of you made." "Which part of the statement are you referring to now?" "I've got it all on videotape, Mr. Steele." "Hell, maybe if you charge me," "I'll have the same civil rights as a crook." "Look." "You can stop this." "Fleming doesn't have to be released just yet." "Oh, yes, he does." "Because you were careless, slipshod." "Fleming walks because you're not good enough." "Without me, you wouldn't have even got him into this room." "He knows who you are." "He's spent his whole life using people like you." "The transcript of Mr. Fleming's complaint will be available shortly." "I'm interrupting this interview until it is available." "Chase it up, will you, Sergeant?" "Yes, sir." "This is personal with you, isn't it, George?" "I mean, every time it's you." "Typical cowboy response." "You don't seem to realize it's your own conduct that brings down this avalanche of complaints." "This is the fourth time you've interviewed me in the last three years, and you've never succeeded in even sticking a disciplinary charge on me." "Have you ever thought that maybe the way you see things might be wrong?" "Oh, you're a thug." "You get more complaints than Ned Kelly." "You're gonna end up back on the street, no pension, no superannuation, dishonorable discharge." "And it'll happen because I'll make sure it does." "I know what's been going on in the interview room." "I know what's going on in your head." "When was the last time you worked on the streets?" "Do you have any idea what it's like out there?" "You fight fire with fire." "I charge them." "They complain about me." "And that's the problem, Mr. Steele..." "Too many complaints." "Oh, you're a thug." "You get more complaints than Ned Kelly." "You're gonna end up back on the street, no pension, no superannuation, dishonorable discharge." "And it'll happen because I'll make sure it does." "Abuse, threats, and assault." "I should have asked for a meal." "I'm sure not all the police are bad like this." "And I'm willing to accept it's all been an unfortunate mistake." "But it's just so upsetting." "If this could happen to me, you know, it could happen to anybody." "Really, it's all just about being reasonable, isn't it?"