"We've been trying this case for four months today." "Started May 5th, it's September 5th." "Then we're not paying any more money, so forget about it." "So actually... the reason for this meeting is so that everyone knows we're quitting!" "OK." "We did the cross." "Done your part." "That's right, hey, I can't do any more, I'm tired." "All right, so, erm, this, to me, is not an academic exercise at all because I have a real question in my mind about, a, whether we should put on any evidence at all" "and, b, if we should put on evidence, what it should be." "The one thing I've absolutely no doubt in my mind about in this particular topic is that you shouldn't testify." "I don't see any upside to that and I see lots of downsides, but obviously, Mike, this is your decision." "You know, this is your life." "Whether you should testify is your call." "So, let's start with Bill and go round the table and hear what people have to say." "Er, first of all, I think I would definitely put on the defence, if that's the first issue that we need to decide." "I think there are a couple of jurors who I think are leaning to a conviction at this point and I think that the experts that we've hired and the theories that they've come up with and the way they explain things are so compelling" "that it may shift those two jurors." "So I think we need to help some of the jurors along." "Todd?" "Clearly you need a defence." "Prior to Radish's testimony, I feel that everybody would have voted not guilty." "Erm, her..." "Radish's testimony was quite effective with at least three jurors, notably Rogers, and it will take medical testimony to get her back on the not guilty side." "OK." "Ron?" "We're in a hell of a good position just with prosecution's evidence in." "Would we get an acquittal?" "I don't know." "I believe we definitely would get a hung jury." "And then you get a hung lawyer, I'm not going through this again." "Sorry, Mike." "I just don't see a conviction, but I see a hung jury at this point." "I don't see an acquittal and that's a gamble that we have to take." "I want to say something else and that is you are not universally liked." "I know that might come as a great shock to you." "I think there's a couple of people on the jury that actually don't like you very much." "You are perceived as very slick, you know, very oily, by them, I think." "It's the old theme, you know, "He's got a lot of money,"" "most of which we've given to you, and we've hired high-powered defence to get him off." "Well, you're not going to have permission to put that particular segment in the film." "Because one of David's..." "Because one of David overriding goals, every day of his life that I've known him, has been for everyone to love him, all the time." "In that case, can I be excused, your honour?" "Um..." "Tom?" "One of the of burdens of putting on defence is you lose some of the reasonable doubt argument you otherwise have." "If you put experts on, you are on under some burden to prove something and it becomes a little bit more of an equal match." "I think Radish..." "She's got some very basic things she says that no cross can take away, somebody else has to come and take away, these seven lacerations or seven separate blows, but you've got to have somebody else explain either how that could happen" "or that there aren't seven impacts, so I think there's probably some basic stuff, at least on the medicine, that needs to be answered." "Mike?" "I agree that we need a defence if only to answer some of the questions" "Radish raised and to fill in a couple of the holes that people might have, but not much." "OK." "I mean, here's the truth, the two or three points the jury is going to trip the most on is..." "..the number of lacerations." "How the fuck do you get these many lacerations in these locations from falling down the stairs?" "That was the main thing..." "The only thing you've got to prove, as far as I'm concerned, is that it wasn't that damn blow poke..." "They've fucking married themselves..." "I know..." "Yeah, they are." "I know that, so therefore..." "I mean, Deborah Radish, I mean, it's like superglue at this point." "I mean, the bottom line is that I think, you know," "I can get up there in closing argument and say," ""Let's just cut to the chase here." ""If you have a reasonable doubt about whether that blow poke..."" "Was even in the house. "..was in the house on December 9th, 2001..."" "It's not guilty." ""it's not guilty."" "No, no, no, we need a Johnnie Cochran phrase." "I've got one, I've got one." "Oh, what is it?" "What is it?" "I've got a better one." "Is it called, "Blow, he must go"?" ""If it ain't the poke..." ""If it ain't the poke, he ain't the bloke."" "Oh!" "I like that." ""If it ain't the poke, he's not going to the poke."" "How about, "Deaver's got no hair and the proof's not there."" "Hello." "Welcome again to Durham." "It's nice to see you." "I'm tired, I'm exhausted." "This is my brother... my brother, Bill." "Hi, Henry." "Hello." "And my son, Todd." "Hi, Henry." "Hi." "And my son Todd." "Hi." "How are you doing?" "Deaver says all going same direction." "No, there's clearly two different directions, opposite directions." "Right." "There's two drops opposite direction, more so the different angles." "Right." "There's one here." "This is..." "Those are..." "These two are same direction." "Deaver says all of these, this, this, that and that, all cast off from a blow over here." "From the same..." "Same event." "Same event?" "Impossible." "Should be 84. 84, exactly." "84." "Now they say, he's here, five inches off this." "How do you..." "And swinging the blow poke from over there, from outside." "It's almost impossible." "So you can swing from the inside and we just should see cast-offs there." "Right." "Five inches." "Let me do that." "She is five feet two, 62 inches." "That's just 62 inches." "Hit here." "So that can cause a multi-fracture now." "Multi-lacerations." "Laceration now." "And then she tried to somehow, dizzy and fall, sit here, maybe fall here and coughing, breathing, OK?" "That's why all the spatter..." "Some time later the shoulder touch here, probably again for support, that's why there's so many fingerprints here on the side, just slipped, yes." "Here, more likely, she was already on the ground." "Something like that." "OK." "Meanwhile, coughing." "Right." "Bleeding." "So..." "HE COUGHS" "Yeah." "Exactly." "So that's why there's the shadow..." "shadowing, in fact" "You know, the bottom line here is accidental fall." "Right." "It's not consistent with a beating." "That's the bottom line." "It's going to be a long night." "Hey, good luck." "I think I want to start with, "Are you aware that Agent Deaver" ""has given this jury the opinion that the blood staining" ""in that stairway, er, indicates..." "indicates it's a beating?"" ""Yes, I know that."" ""Do you agree with that?" "No."" ""Do you have an opinion as to whether it's more consistent with" ""a beating or more consistent with an accident?"" ""Yes."" "No, that's the last question." "Well, I'm going to come back." "You want to say that?" "OK." "Because you have to build up on this." "Yeah." "Why?" "Why do you want to start with..." "Just so the jury understands that you're there to disagree with him." "You don't have to have them to understand." "I'm here, basically, I disagree." "If I..." "If I agree, I don't show up." "That shows the direction." "Do you see what I mean?" "That's perfect." "So that's how we know which direction." "And now we're going to move into medium velocity." "That's a cast-off pattern." "The cast-off pattern, it changes along the line, the ratio, length and width." "You can't just base on one drop, say, "That's a cast-off."" "It can be any possibility." "All right, Henry, they're going to send me in the morning." "It's good." "It's good." "Just dab it on." "That hair." "That much hair did all that?" "No, this hair each time, you see." "You see that?" "Yeah." "What are we..." "What if it could be coughing?" "Huh?" "What's for the coughing?" "Ink." "Come on." "Ketchup or Jell-o, you have your choice." "OK, Ron, you do it." "See if maybe your cough is better than mine." "Which one is ketchup?" "This is ketchup." "HE SPITS" "THEY LAUGH" "You swallow it?" "That's..." "Oh, no, I've got to get my carpet cleaned." "That's a bad experience." "Right." "Now, if something in motion..." "You hold this." "I hope this is not a new suit." "Let's say..." "I'm have a weapon." "Weapon, I have some..." "Here." "I got you." "Now, you have a cast-off pattern." "Cast-off pattern, as you can see, is a line formation." "You have to look at the totality." "You can't just pick one and so that's the one." "When I look at the staircase ceiling, as you probably recall, have a cat picture on the north wall." "Er, above the picture, nothing on the higher point of this area, so if an individual with a weapon, say 40 inches long, hitting," "I should see something on the ceiling, cast-off pattern, some maybe argue, say, could be chop the weapon a little bit, but if you do that, very difficult not to get some blood spatter on whoever, er, suspect's clothing." "Focusing on that for a second, did you inspect Mr Peterson's shirt?" "Yes, I did inspect Michael Peterson's shirt." "It's a dark blue shirt, it's very difficult to see with naked eyes, so what we did is use a higher magnification, use light sources, and tried to look at any area, see any spatter on that." "I didn't find any blood spatter." "Did you observe anything in the scene that was inconsistent with Kathleen Peterson having died from an accident in the stairway?" "When we look at the blood spatter pattern, we have to look at the totality, the whole pattern, instead of jumping to focus on one small drop, just like you go to a forest, you want to see the whole forest first" "before we examine individual trees." "Location one, we can see this area contact, that's another contact down coming downwards, the blood goes downwards." "We have some spatter in this area which the model can't really show up, some spatter on the wall too." "This is consistent with Kathleen have more likely hit the moulding, erm, have some spatter." "Now location number two." "Here, the majority of this portion of it is a multiple deposit of stains - smear, spatter, wipe and swipe pattern." "The rest of it, we see spatter goes all different directions, notable, as I say, approximately 4,000 or more." "So if a beating, you don't create that much blood spatter." "This based on my experience, has to be multiple origin, coughing, shaking her hair, shaking her hair, moving around." "Maybe some impact spatter there, but just everything, it's all together." "Dr Lee, based on your education and job training and your experience and on your own observations of the findings in this case, do you have an opinion to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty as to whether the totality" "of the evidence in this case from the scene is more consistent with a beating or is more consistent with an accident?" "It's more consistent with an accident." "That's all I have." "Thank you, Doctor." "Let's take a 15 minute break." "MURMURING" "Now, do you recall having a series of conversations with Agent Deaver after having looked at the model and seeing the targets that he created and looking at the test..." "Yes, we had some conversation with him." "Do you recall telling him that you had travelled around the United States and that this was some of the best work that you had seen." "I tell him something, he did some good work and the model is beautiful, but the model did not prove anything." "Let me show you a copy of your book." "You recall giving him a copy of your book?" "Yes, I generally give everybody of my book, I want them to learn." "Do you recall signing an inscription with the note, "To Agent Deaver,"" "in this book when you were there?" "Yes." "If you would, please, read what the note says." "I say, "To Duane Deaver, one of the best," ""keep up with your good work." "With warm regards, Henry Lee."" "Yes." "You probably found thousands of this same..." "You wouldn't give it to him unless you had felt that way, would you?" "No, no, no, I give everybody courtesy, that's Chinese culture." "I went to his place." "He extend a courtesy, let me see what he has, that's my upbringing, respect other people, I give him a book." "And cannot write, say, "You're..." I don't want to say," "You can't write on the book, say somebody," ""You're totally wrong," or something." "What are you going to write?" "His conclusion was wrong, but he tried very hard." "I cannot say he did not try to do good work." "Agent Deaver did a lot of work." "So you're agreeing then that he did good work." "I did that..." "What do you want me to say - he did lousy work on the book?" "I cannot say that." "Just like I give Mr Rudolf a book," "I say, "You're one of the best attorneys," but he's lousy." "I give him a book and, er..." "Now, based on all that you saw..." "Yes." "..and all that you did or all that you didn't do, is it your testimony before this jury that you can absolutely conclusively exclude..." "..that Kathleen Peterson was beaten on the head?" "I say my conclusion more consistent with an accidental fall." "But you can't exclude that she was beaten, based on all you did..." "Nobody can exclude everything, but the pattern tells me the indication, everything, more consistent with an accident." "Court TV called me and they want some documents you said you have." "I guess it's from this library stuff?" "Yeah." "Well, I guess they're too lazy to do all the work you've done." "Well, I..." "Yeah." "This has taken a lot of work." "I..." "Nobody wanted to go through these boxes." "I'm not going to give her everything," "I was only going to give her the one that I mentioned to her." "Well, unless she does something really nice for me." "And then I'll give her the one that I gave to Jim Hardin today." "Well, she bought you a very nice dinner." "Yeah, yeah, that's true." "But I didn't ask her to." "Well, that's true." "Let me see what it is." "I can see it, 4 to 11." "All right." "Boy, this is nicely organised." "Right, so..." "Course conference." "What I find really amazing about all this is that he kept so much of his life from such a young age that he..." "I guess he is narcissistic." ""You cannot kill and be unaffected." ""Like an animal who first tastes, so is a man who kills," ""he is for ever disposed to that thirst." ""When he sees how simple is the act," ""he is forever disposed to that thirst." ""Perhaps he will never kill again or ever want to," ""but always in his mind is the knowledge of the act." ""The awareness of its simplicity..." ""the peculiar reminder of elation, sexuality," ""that accompanied the deed" ""and too that he was licence rewarded of something never caught."" "Where the heck was that published?" "See, this, he talks about Frissel in here, this is his A Time Of War book." "I've got to put it back with the other stuff." "I don't know, it's..." "I don't know where it's stuck with this but that's where I found it." "Death and sexuality are a bit of..." "I copied one of these things here that says sex and violence are always intertwined in his books and, believe me, they are." "Well, he's been adding to this periodically." "Well, if you read through it, you will see that there's some homosexual military stuff." "OK." "It's, like, in everything he writes." "Is the word "autobiography" used on it at any place?" "No." "You don't actually see that word?" "Does he refer to himself in first person singular?" "First person." "First person?" "OK." "He's writing about himself." "I mean, he can come up with something else, but I sure think this one is him trying to figure out what's wrong with him." "There's so many things in here that correspond with what I believe I know about that book." "I can't believe anything my brother-in-law tells us any more, but what I thought I knew about his life, about him getting married, going off to Vietnam and certain other things and this one thing at the back," "oh, I want it to be that he's talking about himself." "It's this handwritten thing." "Ah!" "He talks about that he's an aberrant personality, that he's pure wicked, that he's incapable of moral action." "I spent a long time reading his handwriting, I'm getting to know it." "Yeah, oh yeah." "So, I thought, "Wow!" ""He knows something's wrong with him and he's trying to figure it out" ""and unfortunately he took it out on my sister and some other people,"" "but, er, the DA can't bring it in unless Michael gets on the stand, but there's not much else I can do." "What I couldn't find anywhere was where he talked about how he planned to seduce women and push them down the stairs and collect their money." "That was like..." "I couldn't find that." "That's no big deal." "OK, that's the one where he talks about happiness is murdering." "OK, so this is..." "I don't think it's worth copying all this for Laurie, but it's a short story set in Germany..." "Mm-hm... and... ..here we go." ""Hell is not being happy and being happy is what?" ""Being happy is doing what you want." ""Doing what you want is an exercise in pleasure." ""Therefore being happy is doing what gives you pleasure." ""Loving, sacrificing, murdering."" "I could see the loving part..." "and possibly even sacrificing." "Make two copies of that." "Two copies." "I'll make three." "Could you tell the jury what biomechanics is?" "Well, the word in biomechanics, mechanics, is that study of forces and motions on objects, how objects deform, how they tear, how they break, how they rupture." "When you focus it as biomechanics, it ends up being that same application to understand the deformations and the forces on the human body." "Have you supervised the creation of an exhibit?" "Could you describe to the members of the jury what it was and how it was created in terms of what mathematics, what figures, what science went into it?" "Basically, we had to reconstruct graphically the dimensions of the scene and we had to..." "from pictures of Ms Peterson standing up, etc, to approximate her height and shape and we had to use all that information to see if a scenario of a fall is possible and, in fact, if it's realistic..." "..and, in fact, if it's likely." "You know, this is an action that could happen any different ways, but basically she lost her balance and fell straight back, nothing to let restrain herself when she let go of the railing." "And how far did her head travel, did the simulation head travel, before it hit that moulding?" "For this one, it's about a 35 inches of arc." "OK, and that's how you're figuring out the load that's created that's sufficient to create the lacerations, but not sufficient to cause a fracture?" "Right." "OK." "This is one of the possibilities that that doorjamb, its shape, and how high she fell from that could have accounted for this injury." "The left arm has a contact, the right arm has a contact against the moulding." "Is there a bruise in that location?" "Yeah, these are the consistent elbow bruises." "Continuing with the contact points, the back of her head, above the neck, contacts that step." "We saw the first one from that first contact and the second one resting on that step is responsible for these two." "From a sitting position, getting up, you see where her feet are, she slips out, loses her balance there..." "If she were taller, if she was six foot five, she'd probably hit the east wall or something." "I mean, this is a dimensional issue, so falling from that point allows her to hit where she hits, because that's her characteristic length." "How many autopsies have you attended where the ultimate opinion of the pathologist was that an adult person died as a result of a beating death?" "No, I didn't do that." "How many?" "None." "But not having had that experience and not being a forensic pathologist yourself, you've come into this court room and told this jury that Deborah Radish, who actually performed the autopsy, is just dead wrong about this?" "What I'm saying is, it's more likely that a fall impact caused this and we have biomechanical evidence that an impact with a hollow cylinder wouldn't do it." "She is wrong, if that's what she's saying." "Would you agree that a person that's actually there performing the work on a body, whether it be surgical work or work as a forensic pathologist, would you not agree that that person who can actually look at the body," "feel the organs, feel the wounds, might have a better vantage point in making a final decision about a case than a person later on doing like what you did?" "I don't know how she could determine how those injuries occurred." "If she determined that those injuries were the cause of death, that's fine, but the causation, the mechanism by which these things occurred, whether they're cut with a knife or a cylinder or a flat object or a fall," "I would be surprised if Dr Radish would be able to do that." "If I know medical training, they don't have causation training by mechanics." "Sir, my question was, whether you would agree that a person that's actually there, whether it be a doctor or a pathologist or even someone in your position, actually there, visualising a person's body," "looking at their wounds, feeling their wounds, measuring their wounds, looking at all the different things on the body, would you not agree that a person with that vantage point would really have an advantage in making a decision in a case like this?" "Making a decision..." "A person that's right there with their hands, right there, with the eyes right there." "Not on the causation, the event that caused the injuries." "I don't believe just by being there, you have sufficient insight and knowledge to determine how those injuries were caused." "OK." "Somebody, and it was probably on Court TV said, you know, the defence..." "You know, they haven't injected a single bit of emotion in this case." "It's been science, science, science, when, in fact, this is two dead women." "That is a problem from..." "Just from the point of view I'm talking about, which is the story." "That's what I do for a living." "I just tell stories and everyone wants to hear a story from the time they're little babies - this is the story and better a nice story than a scary story." "I do see that where we haven't told a story, except in the sense that here are the forensics and that's cold and whatnot." "But I don't know how you get in to the story, anybody's story without going into the other side, the bad stuff, that everybody doesn't particularly want to have come out in their life," "because for every good thing, there's..." "If there's not at least a bad thing, somewhere back there there's a different spin on it and it can come back." "I don't know." "I don't know." "Well, it's a razor's edge and I think the prosecution has used every dirty trick they can to do character assassination on Mike and they've taken every little point that could possibly have been made and twisted it in a light most unfavourable." "You know, there has been a lot of emotional testimony there and that... when there gets to be debates in the jury room between... on the science, if you've got swing people, what they fall back on?" "A lot of those people could fall back on emotion." "What can we do about that?" "They have no neighbours, nobody here within the community, you're well-known, Kathleen's well known, nobody really from Nortel," "Caitlin, who they've had access to, has been in court every day." "If there had been anything negative that any of these people could have offered, they would have brought him in." "To me, that is strong, the fact that they've had Caitlin there and if there's anything within the relationship, they would have brought her in." "Let me interject." "Now is this something you can use, that you could turn to and say, "Look..." Yes." "Oh, OK, all right." "It's a new argument." "So the lack of what they put out, to me, is stronger than anything else." "I think that if we open up the door to anything with your character, your ass has gone." "I mean, if the forensics were doing poorly and we thought," ""God, we really need to give something to the people,"" "then maybe you take a risk, but I think the forensics, it's gone about as well as it can go, you know, other than somebody magically saying," ""Seven lacerations disappear." Mm-hm." "Is there anybody who is in favour of calling any other witness, including you, Michael, most importantly, you?" "No, because I'm very realistic." "Nobody's insulting me, I am a big boy, and hell happens with my life, so, yes, I understand and it would be probably infinitely more negative in the long run, so drop it." "OK." "Meeting adjourned." "OK." "MUFFLED CONVERSATION" "If you want to look at the pool..." "Does that suit you, Dave?" "They could go in this way and do whatever they're going to do, see the pool and come exit this way." "Now, what we do is we put the..." "We made sure the chair was along that line there." "Cos it was in the down position." "Yeah, and we tried to match it so that, remember," "Deaver said it would match that." "Right." "OK." "Oh, I know what I did want to look at." "Put out all the family photos." "That's right." "Oh, absolutely." "Put away all the porn, right?" "That's right." "All that." "No, I'm only teasing, I'm only teasing." "You did see the blow poke over there, right." "Oh, I missed it." "We haven't seen it." "I think I've seen enough." "We'll come back up this way." "A lot of them paid attention to the blood spatter, even kneeling down, looking down, squatting, looking at the dried blood that was on the moulding of the doorway, so they were really interested in the blood spatter?" "Were they talking notes?" "Well, they all took notes but they would come out of the stairwell and take notes, and go back in, get another look and take more." "Do you think they wanted a spatial sense of whether there was room to..." "Well, like I said, earlier, some of them stood in the stairwell, went up about three or four steps and kind of waved their arms to kind of get a sense if you can fall back." "They seemed to be consuming a lot." "It's one thing to see it in the pictures, it's another thing to see it in person." "How did the blood look?" "It was dry." "Ron, what are you doing today?" "I need you to come to Chapel Hill." "They found the blow poke." "No, THE blow poke." "They found the blow poke." "Hi, Ron." "You fucked up a good golf game." "Well, sorry." "You could have gone and played golf." "I didn't..." "I had my golf bag on my shoulder, walking out the door." "Did you really?" "And then I saw Rudolf Maher's, so I picked up." "I shouldn't have picked this up, but I did." "All right, erm..." "Let's start with me understanding completely what happened, all right, so take me..." "Take it from the top, Clayton." "I mean, give me the full rundown." "Well, I went downstairs, first thing I did, I looked at the car," "I looked in the trunk, then I looked around at the side, cos that's where the tools are..." "OK." "And then I came round the other side and I just saw it there." "It was just right past the trunk, just sitting there." "OK." "So, then I went and got Margaret and brought her down, just to make sure, cos I couldn't believe it." "It was sitting right there." "Then they went upstairs and got Dad." "And what was he doing?" "I was reading." "Almost going to sleep." "And Margaret, you went to get him?" "Yeah, I just yelled, "Dad, we found the blow poke." ""Come on, let's go."" "We were terrified, we were freaked that, you know, literally freaked as to what happened, so Margaret got her video camera out, I got the..." "And she got the tape recorder and we were going and I'd called Tom by this time, and, you know, if the cops show up, we're just going to..." ""You can't come into this house until my attorney, who is..."" "I thought you were going to show up on a motorcycle, appear." "So now, you're waiting on Tom, what are you doing while you're all waiting on Tom?" "We went in the den and Tom said, "I want to talk to you, Dad,"" "and said, "I'm going to ask you, would you bet your life" ""on that blow poke?" and I know exactly what he was doing and what he was saying." "So, I said, "No, absolutely," ""I would bet my life on that blow poke, unless the cops..."" "cos we're still going through this conspiracy thing," ""unless the cops came, got blood and put blood on the goddamn thing."" "Just be careful." "But how the fuck does that get missed?" "How did they miss that, Ron?" "Looks like a shower curtain." "On the edge, it looks like a tiny little..." "I don't know, I don't know, but what difference does it make?" "It's clearly old." "This is not something that Mike bought in the last six months." "It's 38 and..." "It's 38." "You need to go have a talk with Mike." "I need to make sure that if we test this fucking thing..." "Nice work." "Let's go talk." "It seems to me that, erm... ..from a strategic point of view," "I don't have any idea how this ends up cutting." "I don't think it hurts us unless the jury feels like we've staged this in some way." "Yes, yes, yes." "I understand that, Mike, but..." "And I think the way we..." "It's too preposterous." "OK, it may be too prosperous, but it is what it is and so it seems to me that what we need to do is figure out the best way of revealing this, so as to minimise any chance that the jury is going to feel" "like we have staged this in some way." "I wouldn't buy it in a minute." "My God." "Well..." "Mike, I don't know what else to do." "I know, I understand that, I do, I just cannot..." "I think this is terrible." "Well, can we get a professional photographer over, so that we can actually get close-ups of the little bugs and really good pictures of the cobwebs and all that stuff?" "I mean, you know, studio quality pictures, whatever that takes." "I do not see how this can be turned into anything good." "HE COUGHS" "Now look on here how many cobwebs you have." "We have to hit it just right with the light." "See right there?" "See that group right there?" "Yeah." "See another group right there?" "That's on the front, was the side here." "So you've got to be careful when you do this here." "You know, there's all kinds of filaments attached." "Set it up." "That's it." "I got to get your fingerprints on there somehow." "Somebody squeezing it too tight there on the middle." "It's not going in." "Right here, Todd." "You need to be careful about this here." "OK." "I'm going to let it go for a minute." "OK." "Let me grab it." "OK." "You move your hands." "Careful it doesn't pull through all the way." "Yeah, got it." "Fuck!" "Now I've got to get upstairs and see about this." "That's good." "That's good." "Goddamn, this looks like something out of Star Wars." "Don't you think?" "This looks like Obi-Wan Kenobi." "Here, Obi-Wan Kenobi." "Stop fucking with our evidence." "Don't you think?" "Obi-Wan Kenobi." "You can't bounce it around cos the shit's already on it." "All right, all right, all right." "Be careful." "So stop." "So what's the plan?" "Er, we're going to plead you tomorrow." "LAUGHTER Hey, I'm ready." "I don't care." "It's this shit I can't handle." "Right, we need to call Clayton." "You do?" "Yep." "Why do you need Clayton?" "Because I think we need to establish..." "Let's put it this way." "Suppose we had..." "Suppose Clayton had found that three months ago." "All right." "All right, during jury selection, would there be any doubt in your mind as we sat there and listened to Hardin talk about the blow poke and how they got rid of the blow poke, and the blow poke's the murder weapon" "and Deborah Radish says," ""Oh, yeah, this is it because it's hard enough" ""but not too hard," would there be any doubt in your mind that we'd want to put that blow poke into evidence?" "No." "I guess." "The only thing..." "The only fly in the ointment is that we found it last night, not three months ago, right?" "I mean, let's all get clear on that." "Isn't that really the issue?" "If we had found this..." "If you had found it six months ago, would you have any doubt in your mind about whether we should use it?" "Of course not, no." "No." "You wouldn't either." "We'd be sitting there salivating." "We'd be waiting for that magic moment when I took it out." "I don't want Clayton on the stand, that's all." "They're just going to kill him, I know that and you know that." "Freda Black is, you know..." "What are they going to do?" "They're going to establish that when he was a freshman in college, he got in trouble?" "You know, they're going to cross-examine him about his credit card debt?" "Yeah." "Yeah, OK." "He's got a pending driving without..." "A revoked licence." "That's still pending in court here." "He had a DWI two years ago." "All right, I'm going, I've seen enough of you for today." "Be cool." " Bye, Mike." " Thanks for a great Sunday" "Hey, listen, anything else that comes up that's really an emergency..." "Call Hardin." "That's right, don't call me." "Oh." "And I don't answer the phone at 2.30." "I knows." "Ever."