"Ben, look at this, look..." "Look at the front page of today's paper." "This is what I'm telling you about, this kid..." "Dad, that's page 23." "You folded it over." "Well, when you fold it over he's on the front page." "This is the kid I was talking to you about last night, Ben." "He broke and entered the home of this elderly couple..." "Yeah." "He tied them up..." "And wrote all over their walls using a permanent marker." "It sounds so clear-cut, but it's suspicious to me." "I've got a strong feeling that the elderly couple had something to do with it." "Well, they were home." "And that's asking for it." "And I mean, how do you know that that couple didn't provoke him?" "Precisely." "I mean, they could've..." "That old guy could've said," ""Tie me up, I dare ya." Yeah." "And then the woman was like," ""Yeah, tie me up."" "And would that have been the act of an insane man if he'd compiled?" "Or was he just cooperative to a fault?" "These are the things you have to uncover." "Well, Ben, actually as an expert witness, all I have to do is establish the fact that" "Roger is either competent or incompetent to stand trial." "Yeah." "And if I can establish that he's incompetent..." "It's extra." "How did they get you?" "I mean, you've never done this before." "Don't they have those people, the charlatans who get paid to do that?" "Well, I guess this lawyer felt he wanted to go a different route, and probably the charlatans were not available." "Mmmm." "What I need to do is," "I need to put him through a series of psychological tests and see how he holds up." "Seems such a cold process, I mean..." "It's a business, Ben." "The legal system is big business." "There's... is there money exchanged?" "Well, there's money exchanged between the law firm and me." "They're paying me to lend my time to this case, to interview Roger, and to take the stand..." "Well then, that seems unfair." "It's inadmissible." "Who cares what you say?" "You're getting paid." "Well..." "It's like, why don't they hire an actor?" "No, Ben, you d..." "You don't understand." "It has nothing to do with..." "I'm not offering a biased..." "Aw, dad, it's a sham!" "It's a crying sham, yeah." "And even I..." "How much are you getting paid?" "I'm getting paid over $400 an hour." " Well, you do it." " Yeah." "You know, the defense in this case is maintaining that this kid, Roger is his name, was criminally insane." "Yeah." "You know that's something that we've yet to es..." "That I've yet to establish for myself, because I'm going to be interviewing him later on." "Here?" "No, no, I'm gonna go to the law firm." "Oh." "He's out on bail and I'm gonna go interview him at the law firm." "Don't make him angry." "What, he's gonna write on me?" "Well..." "No, no..." "What did he write on the walls?" "Actually, it was an apology for breaking and entering." "That sounds pretty sane to me." "See, this is... this is the issue that most even psychiatrists and attorneys can't quite get this right, is that somebody is competent to stand trial mm-hmm." "Means that, in the courtroom, that they are..." "Able to understand th... wh... th..." "It's very confusing." "Whatever, Dr. Katz, take the money." "But I'm not a lawyer, and they know I'm not a lawyer." "They just want me to determine whether..." "Whether or not this kid knew what he was doing was right or wrong." "But who decides whether or not you're competent to testify?" "Y'know the fact that I'm a board-certified psychiatrist is all I need to be." "Really?" "Yup." "Do you have any idea what you're doing?" "Well, you know I..." "The first time you do anything, you're bluffing." "Does Roger and the old people know about this..." "Bluffing thing?" "No, but they'll figure it out." "It's gonna become immediately apparent as soon as I take the stand." "Well, I'm sorry to hear, Jake, that it's not going well." "It's been kind of a..." "I've been having a rough time." "I, uh, I fell in love with this... woman." "Damn it!" "That's how it starts." "Y'know, I'm picking the wrong women." "I think what I really need is like a third base coach." "Y'know, someone to give me the" ""Whooaa!" "No, no!" "Triple, triple, triple!"" "'Cause y'know that feeling when you're chuggin' around third and the catcher has the ball." "Umm..." "All my married friends, they find out I broke up, and they're like, "Hey, now you can have sex with whoever you want!"" "'Cause they forget." "Once you're married, you think being single is just," ""You, me!" "The closet." "Go!"" "And uh, I have to straighten 'em out," "I say, "Yeah, I can have sex with whoever I want." "Except for..." "People I don't know, and... people who are in relationships, and people who give me the creeps, and people who I give the creeps to, and... men."" "So pretty quick, we're down to my ex-girlfriends." "And then, the only thing worse than them are my single guy friends who always want to cheer me up by taking me out for a night with the guys." "Yeah, you don't want that." "We all get each other all excited." ""Oh, we're going off with the guys!"" ""Yeah, it's a great club, it's crawlin' with women, we're all gonna meet our dream girl, we're gettin' laid, wear your good sweater!"" "So we get out there, and we're this pack of guys, and we have no idea..." "We're just in this clump." "And we're scarin' the hell out of every woman in the place." "I don't know where we got this plan from, "wild kingdom"?" "We would be dangerous, probably, if we had a plan, but we don't even have a plan." "We're just out in this clump like," ""I wonder what it'd be like if we were talking to them."" ""That's the one I would talk to if I was gonna talk to one of 'em."" ""What do you think we should do?"" ""Dah... drink more beer!"" "All my friends are trying to cheer me up." "Y'know, this one friend says to me," ""Hey, you know what?" "Dogs are never depressed."" "I don't..." "I have no idea what he meant by that." "But it kinda got me thinkin' like, what kind of advice would a dog even give you if he could, y'know?" ""Have you tried lying in the sun..." "Until you're reaallly hot." "And then go lie in the shade?"" "Ahh, you guys are familiar with the case." "It's sort of a..." "This kid Roger who who is the defendant, right." "Is accused of tying up an elderly couple..." "Ohh, yeah." "...and writing on their walls with a permanent marker." "I'm not allowed to discuss the details of this case." "You just did, what'dya mean ya..." "But his phone number, if you want to ask him directly... 555..." "But he claims that his writing on the walls was an effort, really to interpret what they were trying to say to him..." "The elderly couple that he had tied up." "What did he write?" "The first thing he wrote was," ""Mmmmmm mmm mmm mmmmm mmmm..."" "Aww, you know, you are really sick!" "Yeah." "So why wouldn't you rather be on the other side of this?" "On the side of good?" "I'm not on one side or the other." "I'm on the side of the truth, Judy." "Uh, who's Judy?" "Thank you, doctor, I'm very, very happy that you could see me this morning." "Well, I'm glad you made the call and I'm glad..." "Thank you, thank you." "You didn't call me at home, I appreciate that." "I'm just, uh, having a little trouble..." "Breathing right now, but..." "I'm just so unhappy." "I really, like, I couldn't sleep this morning and I got up at about..." "About 4 o'clock in the morning." "And I tried to have breakfast..." "'Cause you said that I should really try to have breakfast, but I couldn't really do that 'cause I was gonna throw up." "Oh... so, what do you think is going on, Bob?" "I can't remember what it is." "I'm sure I..." "let me see if I can help." "I'm sure it's just on the tip of my tongue, it's like so stupid, 'cause it's, y'know..." "I'm just looking through my notes here, Bob." "Does it have to do with your wife?" "I have no idea." "Can I cry?" "Would that be alright if I cried?" "Well, according to my notes, crying is okay." "'Cause maybe it'll..." "Here let me get some..." "No, I don't think I have any tissues." "You can use some of this thermal fax paper." "I think it's coming because I think if I concentrate on the pain..." "Mmm-mm no, it's not coming, though." "So you have no idea what's going on." "I have one thought." "Okay." "My wife said something about wanting to get a divorce..." "Before I went to bed last night." "I think that's probably it." "I'm sure that's what prompted the call and I'm sure that's the source of this..." "Pain that you're in right now." "But she wasn't saying she was like, depressed, or upset or anything." "She was saying she'd really been thinking about it and she gave me kind of a letter that she'd been working on..." "So, she had formalized her thoughts on the subject." "Well, yeah, and she had our lawyers kinda..." "Kinda had some thoughts on the letter about it..." "'Cause she wanted to talk about, the separation..." "Dr. Katz's office." "Laura." "Hi, Ben." " How are ya?" " Fine." "Good." "So..." "What's up?" "You must've heard, my dad's famous." "He is?" "Yeah." "For what?" "He just got hired to do a trial." "Well, I know about that." "Yeah, he's being asked to do trials." "That's huge." "I'm very excited, here." "What are you, his agent?" "Well..." "I'm thinkin' about it." "Y'know, he could do..." "This is just the start." "He gets called for one trial and then, y'know..." "Could be a whole new business for him." "These guys make a lot of money, the people who do trials." "Yeah, I know." "I mean my dad's making a lot of money on this one." "I know." "This one leads to the next one, and then the next one, and then he does them all the time, and he makes a lot of money." "I mean my dad, this is my dad's turn to shine." "Mmmm." "And I'm pretty proud of the old guy actually." "Mm-huh." "I mean the guy over the whole course of his whole career has pretty much been ignored." "Nobody's even noticed he's a psychiatrist or..." "He's never really been in the paper." "He's never done anything important." "I mean he's this guy who just who waddles off to work every day, then waddles home, cooks me a frozen dinner." "I mean it's a sad life." "What I find really troubling is that it's taken you almost 40 minutes to get to the point where you realize that this is what's propelled you into my office." "But it... eh, I'm not sure." "Mm-hmm." "I think there may be something else." "Do you have any idea what it might be?" "I don't really remember, I think I got a phone call in the afternoon, y'know, like one of those things where you're talking really quickly and you're..." "Do you ever do that?" "Where you put somebody on hold, and somebody says something and then you have somebody else on hold and you say, "I'll call you right back,"" "but then you completely forget to call them back?" "And I think, I have a feeling it may be that thing." "Mm-hmm." "So you think that something significant happened and you just..." "Oh, I remembered what it was." "My cousin committed suicide yesterday." "Ohh!" "That's terrible." "Ben, do you know how many psychiatrists do courtroom trials?" "There's like a million." "Well, Laura, do you know how many people live in this country?" "Ben, psychiatrists who testify in court are not respected." "I mean, the more that they do it, the less respect they get." "Really?" "Well, yeah, because they get paid a lot of money." "The more money you have the more respect you get, right?" "No." "Famous people are respected, Laura." "And I'll tell you something else..." "Ben, he's not famous." "He will be after the trial." "He's gonna be on the local news, I guarantee that." "I doubt it." "I called in an anonymous tip." "Often, Bob, when you lose someone who is close to you..." "You go through a period of shock, and then of remorse, then shock again." "It's an important process to go through..." "The grieving process." "And I'd be glad to help you through it in any way I can." "Yeah, but that wasn't it, though." "That was not the thing." "'Cause that did happen and that was a thing." "Did somebody else call?" "I don't know if it was a phone call." "Maybe I read it in the paper." "It's something to do..." "I think it has something to do with my business." "I think it's a business thing." "I don't know." "Could you ask me questions?" "Could you pretend that you're my wife, but could you not call me "Sweetie"?" "Okay." "How was your day?" "It was okay." "Did you really have a good day?" "I don't think so." "I don't think so." "I think something happened." "What happened..." "Honey?" "I got a call from the bank." "That's what it was, I got a call from the bank." "My broker called me and, the bank had to call too, and they both had to be on the phone with me, 'cause I lost about like..." "Oh my god." "You lost some money?" "Yeah, I lost a lot of money." "Well, that's terrible." "Yeah." "Well, thank god we don't have kids." "Oh, wait, we have kids." "Hey, Todd?" "Hey, what's up, man?" "What's up?" "What's going on, man?" "Did you read that thing about the, uh, the big case in the paper?" "Oh yeah, the thing with the mailbox?" "No, no, no." "Oh... the one with the grapes?" "No, no, no." "I saw that one, not the grapes one." "That was awful." "Which case you talking about?" "The magic markers and the old people." "Oh yeah, I read about that one." "Oh you did read that?" "That was weird, huh?" "Yeah." "But you know what, my dad..." "Was called to give testimony." "Oh, like an expert witness?" "Like an expert witness, yeah." "'Cause he's a psychiatrist, and they think the guy who did it is crazy." "So they want to get him off on an insanity plea..." "Is what they call it." "Oh, so your dad's like this hired gun now?" "It's not the old west." "Your dad's a professional gun." "No, he's not a gun." "He's a... a doctor." "I mean, it's gotta be a little bit lucrative, y'know." "Yeah, it's like, 400 bucks an hour." "Really?" "How much do you make an hour?" "Substantially less than 400." "Give me a number." "My salary's private." "Oh, don't be like that." "Money issues are private." "Alright." "I just told you what my..." "I guess unless you're making 400 bucks an hour, then ooh somehow that gets into the conversation." "Y'know, Ben, if forensic..." "What I'm involved in is called "forensic medicine"..." "And it's where the medical world and the legal world intersect." "Whew, dad." "Yeah." "You know how to bore." "Did you read a book on the subject?" "I-I read a book called..." "Called "How to bore a jury"?" "No, it's called "Psychiatrist as expert witness"." "I read that book and I wrote two books just like it." "No seriously, Ben, this is a high-profile case, and if it goes well, I stand to make..." "It could generate other work." "You know what?" "I first thought that was a good thing, dad, but now I think that maybe you shouldn't do it." "Now why is that?" "I just think that your selling yourself out." "I'm not selling out." "I mean, if they didn't hire me, they'd hire somebody else." "Well, but that doesn't make it right." "Y'know, I mean, the fact is that you should make a point." "On principle, you say, "no."" "That your services are not for hire." "Oh, wait a minute, what about your patients?" "They pay, right?" "Yeah, but this is somebody who's buying my point of view." "Well, I know." "That's the point." "I mean, I think that's what's wrong about it." "That's why I made it very clear to the law firm that my testimony is gonna be based on my objective interview with Roger." "But let's say you..." "Don't believe he's criminally insane after you meet with him." "Right." "That's when you'll get fired." "I'll tell them what I'm going to say but I'll tell them on the stand." "But if you tell them the honest truth and the truth is that Roger is not insane that he's perfectly capable of standing trial, they'll say, "Thank you for your time"..." "Those are two different issues, Ben." "I'm trying to explain this to you." "There's competency to stand trial which means that he can understand the proceedings..." "Here we go with the bore again." "My neighbor just came home with her dog with that plastic cone on his head?" "Did you ever see the dog when he comes home with that plastic cone?" "And they always look at you, like, "What happened?"" "And you have to tell them," ""Well, you're the one who wouldn't leave his ass alone." "I tried to warn you." "Tried putting' that bad-tasting salve on there."" "I think that salve is really just a practical joke the vet is having with you." "I don't even think it has anything to do with the dog." "It's just, "Here, rub this on his ass."" ""Well... alright."" ""Twice a day!"" ""Aww!"" "I mean, I feel like it's gotta be a racket once you find out how it's supposed to work, right, you know what I'm talkin' about, right?" "That salve?" "You put it on the dog's stitches, or his butt." "It's supposed to keep him from licking, right?" "The vet says he won't lick the salve because the salve tastes bad to the dog." "Hello?" "He's already licking his ass!" "What could that salve possibly taste like?" "Worse than ass flavor?" "Our brains are not big enough to imagine a flavor like that!" "No matter how it tastes, the dog's gotta be thinkin'" ""Well, you can still kinda taste the ass through it a little bit." "It's not that bad."" "Roger, hi." "Hi." "Smoke?" "Sure." "I actually don't think we can smoke in here." "Y'know, you see so many movies about convicts and all they want is a cigarette." "That's alright, no thanks." "So, just a few things that you should know before we get started is that... although I'm a therapist" "I'm not here today as your treater." "I did it." "Well, first of all let's backtrack a little 'cause there are things I need to tell you." "Okay." "I have been retained by the firm that's defending you but you need to know that anything you say to me can be used in a court of law, it can be used in a deposition, it can become part of a folk tale." "Uh-huh." "Also you need to know that if at any point you need to um, urinate..." "During?" "I don't... during..." "During what?" "I don't know..." "During the trial." "No, I mean during this interview." "Oh." "Hey, let me ask you something, Roger." "And, this is uh..." "Do you know...?" "And this is really what is at the core of this trial..." "The difference between right and wrong?" "And, do you have a favorite one?" "Hey, Ben, I'm sorry if I've been a little distracted..." "Well, the case is taking up a lot of your time, dad." "Well, y'know, this is my first time doing this and I feel like I..." "I wouldn't over-research it." "There's a point where you have to just stop and go do it." "I know, and that..." "We're getting to that point, but I'm being scrutinized by..." "I say you're going a little too far." "Why is that?" "How many times are you gonna read the constitution?" "You made your point." "You pick it up, you can't put it down." "Mmmm... it's gonna be an exciting case, actually." "You'll be sure to get me a ticket, right?" "No, actually this is not open to the public." "This is a closed hearing, Ben." "Dad, all courts are open to the public." "Not this one." "You're lying, aren't you?" "No, I'm serious." "'Cause you don't want me to go." "I-I'd love for you to come." "It says right here, "Nooo..." "Ben can't come in."" "So are you gonna..." "Are you nervous, or...?" "I-I-I'm feeling a little nervous." "I'd like to show..." "Can I show you what I have in mind to wear?" "Because the jury, according to everything I've read, is really..." "Every little thing matters when you're up there on the stand." "This is "a"." "What do you think?" "I don't love it." "Okay, let me get "b"." "Hold on one second." "This is "b"." "Mmm." "I think, umm, you're going for uh..." "It's too strong." "Well, a lot of therapists try and dress like lawyers, and..." "You don't wanna look slick." "That's right." "You don't want to look too slick, because that can translate as "smarmy"." "But you also don't want to look too casual because that can read as disrespect for the court." "Don't wear a tux." "No." "And umm, don't dress like a pimp." "And definitely don't wear the "I'm representing stupid" t-shirt..." "With an arrow." "Why don't you wear what you would normally wear every day?" "Don't make a big issue out of it." "Well, actually what ed said was that what I wear could have a real impact on the jury." "Well don't listen to Ed." "Who's Ed?" "Mmm..." "Ed is the guy who hired me." "He's the head of the defense team." "Well, you should call Ed and make sure he's not wearing the same thing you're wearing." "That would be embarrassing." "What if the whole defense team was wearing the same outfit?" "What's really important is what Roger's wearing because he's gonna be wearing that for a long, long time." "Dad, how did it go?" "I think it went well, I think I..." "Well, what did you say?" "Well, I was asked if Roger is competent to stand trial and I said "no"." "Yeah, and then what?" "And then they said "case dismissed."" "You said one word?" "It wasn't just that I said one word it was the word I said." "And also the fact that I brought several years of training to that word." "Well, dad, you've always been a master of brevity." "My feeling was, the longer I stayed up there..." "Well, I guess I am getting paid by the hour..." "Thanks a lot, you just lost us 400 bucks." "With your one-word answer." "What happened to Roger?" "He's coming over tonight, actually, we're having a..." "A little tie-up party?" "No, Roger, he couldn't have been happier." "Yeah, well, I mean, what happened?" "Well, he's gonna spend some time in a maximum security mental facility." "They found him insane." "I presented a case that he..." "Not only wasn't he competent to stand trial, he wasn't available that day." "Dad!" "I'm sorry." "Was the elderly couple there?" "The elderly couple was there." "And they made a very emotional plea for his freedom." "Oh, really?" "They supported him." "They supported him, they said," ""If you're ever in the neighborhood we'd love to have you over..."" "Dad, congratulations." "Thank you." "Well, I'd love to read your transcript, when it says," ""Dr. Katz, expert witness," in quotes, "No."" "I just..." "I'm never gonna figure out women, y'know?" "And they're never gonna figure us out." "That's kind of an empty victory for us." "I mean, I feel like I will never understand women because they're kind of mysterious and magical and they will never understand us because... they can't handle the truth." "My friend just came up to me the other day and she was all freaked out, she's like, "Jake, I don't understand." "How could a man want to have sex with a plastic doll!" "?"" "And I said back to her," ""Well... it's not plan 'a'."" "And, y'know, those things..." "If you take the cumulative effect of those things, Bob, there's the divorce, there's the suicide..." "Mmm, but you wanna know something?" "Yeah." "I have a feeling it may be..." "I have another issue, I think." "Um, I have to remember to send fruit." "That's very important..." "Well, is it about the money?" "It..." "I think that's not the actual issue although it probably is like an adjunct issue." "But I'm not sure that that's the core thing." "It's kind of coming back to me now..." "Well, you know what the music means, Bob." "We're gonna have to stop." "I just have one more thing I wanted to talk about if I could just bring it up very, very quickly." " I'm sorry." " Okay." "We're gonna have to stop now, because of the music." "Um, would you do me a favor, though?" "What's that?" "If you would just jot down very quickly, bring it up next week, if you could mention, uh, "brain tumor"." "Okay, brain tumor."