"When I ended up in the movement" "I was 16 years and pregnant" "And my family couldn't understand what was going on" "I was brought up by my mother I was an only child, alone with my mother" "She didn't understand that her daughter getting pregnant wasn't the end of the world" "And that there were many other ways of coping" "She really couldn't accept it and she threw me out, onto the streets" "The police picked me up" "I spent three days at the police station because it was during the Easter Bank Holiday" "So there was no-one in the police station who knew what to do with me" "Then on the Tuesday morning I was taken to the juvenile court" "And the magistrate said: "What do you want to do?"" " I want to keep my baby" "But I don't want to go back home because there'll be rows with my mother all the time" " All right, I'm sending to a maternity home" "So I went in a maternity home" "When I came out of the home, my son was 7 months old" "I was 3 months pregnant when I went in" "And I came out when my son was 7 months old" "I think, in this maternity home, they could have helped me or tried top help me to start living a normal life again" "I came out with a job, but only just" "I had a 7-month-old child" "And I was offered, at that point, 85,000 francs a month" "Less than 100,000 francs!" "Doing what?" "I was a salesgirl" "So then I was really on my uppers" "Out of my 85,000 francs a month, as I was working, I had to pay a baby-minder" "And that costed me 25 francs a day" "So that's how much a month!" "?" "They'd found me somewhere to live" "But I had to pay the rent too" "And buy the things my son and I needed" "I really couldn't make ends meet" "Then one day it happened, I went to a dance" "I used to go dancing on Saturday nights" "Because people used to look after my son as a favour since I worked all week" "I'd collect him on Sundays and Saturdays I used to go dancing" "There I met a man who was quite a bit older than me" "And I suppose he fancied me" "He suggested we should go away together for the weekend" "And when we were away he bought me a complete set of new clothes" "And he gave as much money as I used to earn in a whole month" "It was really fantastic for me!" "So when I realized he was giving me all that money..." "I had passed my exams but I couldn't find a job" "I had a child and expenses to meet" "I was completely alone trying to cope" "And I was seventeen and a half which is a bit young..." "So I thought "why not?"" "So I started seeing another guy" "So I had two at that point, and then three" "And then one day I thought "well at least I'm making a living at this"..." "One day, women will..." "But it won't happen tomorrow" "We tried chatting for an hour or so" "It wasn't specially interesting" "And I don't really see how it could be, given present day conditions" "If you're given 1h on TV after centuries of silence it's either too much or too little" "But we tried it again" "What do you think will happen?" "We'd like to know what's happening to you" "Are we living in the Middle Ages, or on the moon?" "Have you an idea?" "What countries have you heard of apart from France?" "Yes?" "Yes." "You've been there or you've heard about them?" "I've been to some and I've heard about some" "Which ones have you heard about?" "England" "Yes" "Japan" "Yes" "What have you heard about Japan?" "That the President had gone there" "What?" "Gone there" "The President of France?" "He ent to Japan?" "Yes" "What else?" "England, Japan." "No other countries?" "Yes, there's Germany" "Tell me what you've heard about Germany" "The Germans eat eggs for breakfast" "I didn't hear" "The Germans eat eggs for breakfast" "It's not like here" "Who told you that?" "My parents" "That the Germans eat eggs for breakfast?" "Yes and ham" "And ham" "I must be German, I eat it every morning" "What other countries?" "England, Japan, Germany, France are the 4 countries..." "No others?" "Yes, Greece" "Greece" "They had a war with Turkey" "I'm sure you know many things Why don't you tell them?" "And apart from Greece?" "Do you think people everywhere are like you?" "No, they don't speak the same language as me" "What other differences are there?" "They don't live like us, for example" "On the other side of the world, it's night at the moment" "But they're all the same?" "They've got arms, legs, heads?" "They're all white and so on" "No, there are blacks" "in Africa" "When you were talking about good and bad things, what did you call a good thing and a bad thing?" "When the President went to England, they really welcomed him and that's a good thing" "Now a bad one..." "Something like a war is a bad thing" "When you hear about a war somewhere..." "Have you heard of any wars that are going on at the moment?" "No" "You mentioned the Greeks and the Turks, is that war still going on?" "No, it ended two years ago" "So there's been nothing since that war two years ago?" "As far as you know" "I'm not getting at you, I just want to know" "But as far as you know, there's nothing?" "No" "She... a women... tomorrow" "The way things are going on, our encounter will be the day before yesterday, not tomorrow" "Carry on" "Well, I think what I was taught wasn't to express myself physically, but I need gestures" "But you see gestures all around" "Just physical expressions or particular gestures?" "Not really" "People talk in the street, some play football, you learn this at school" "There are millions of physical expressions" "So you mean there are good ones and bad ones?" "There are some gestures which are allowed in public and others which aren't" "Like what?" "Like if you see someone in the street and you want to kiss him" "You aren't allowed to do that" "What's stopping you?" "Are the police watching you?" "No, but if the other person..." "But what's stopping you finding out if the other person would be schocked if you did it?" "Other people would be shocked" "How do you know if you've never done it?" "Because I've already tried things like that" "Is that the way you see it?" "No, I've seen how people react" "How do you know this person isn't very friendly?" "Yes, but I don't know that before I start..." "So why do you pretend to know about things?" "Perhaps because that once happened to me and I don't want it to happen again" "People think that all is ever..." "When you say one, you say hundred, and you say thousand" "Yes, and I think it's awful" "To begin with people act spontaneously" "But gradually all their spontaneity disappears" "It's burried" "You get to the point when you stop yourself doing things" "You erect artificial barriers after a while" "Do you depend on other people or are you able to look after yourself?" "What can other people count on you for?" "What for?" "I don't know" "It depends on them" "Things you can do depend on them?" "I suppose that I could go on holiday, or fix up a holiday, for one person" "But for somebody else, I'd do something else" "It all depends" "There are some things I can do" "But I only like doing them with certain people not with others" "Do you need to think of the person first?" "Or do you think of things first?" "Yeah" "I mean, suppose there are 3 things: you, other people, and things" "There are things I like doing with certain people" "I'd rather not do them unless it's with people I like" "What things?" "I mean I'd choose who to go to the mountains with" "Because it's really something important for me" "What do you like doing in the mountains?" "Going cross country skiing for a few days 3 or 4 people up against things like exhaustion, danger and so on" "And exploring the mountaing together" "You just don't go to the mountains with anybody" "I wouldn't go away with someone I've never met or someone I don't like, someone I don't feel good about right from the start" "So that means that you don't go to the mountains very often even though you really like going" "No, I go very often" "So you've got a lot of friends?" "Same number as everyone else, I think" "So it's easy to find people to go to the mountains with" "Yes..." "I don't know..." "There might be five or six people" "Once I'd fixed up to go with someone I don't like much" "And the excursion would have been very interesting" "But I didn't go because I didn't want to go with someone I didn't get on with" "So the mountain is less important than the person" "Perhaps..." "You see the person like a door to go to the mountain?" "No, they really go together" "I don't know" "I don't think that a woman can take money for an hour's talking, as a man can and call it a job her job" "Anyway it isn't her job" "It's the job of the guy who's asking the questions" "An ordinary people might get done in a situation where we wouldn't" "On the other hand, there are times when we're taken in and straight people aren't" "Like what?" "Things you learn that are interesting..." "Hygiene, for example" "It's really one of the things we have to know about" "And quite a lot of people don't know how to" "And then there's..." "I don't know" "What's not good for you?" "About this job?" "Yes" "There are some things about this kind of work wich develop our ill-tempered nature" "One thing that isn't good is comments people sometimes make" "which really annoy us sometimes, make us really mad" "Once I took a man upstairs around 50" "So I got up there, and the first thing you do is to wash him" "And you pull his foreskin back to wash him" "He says "What are you doing to me"" " I have to do it wash you" " But I had a shower this morning" " That doesn't mean you're clean"" "Sure enough, when I pull his foreskin back, he was dirty" "Really dirty" "So he says: "For Chirst's sake, I didn't know I'd have to pull my foreskin back" " You're 50 and you still don't know how to wash your willy" " No, I didn't know about pulling the foreskin back"" "And I really think that's something incredible" "People who don't keep themselves clean" "Sometimes you get a client who wants you to do things" "One guy wanted me to sew a button on his skin, right on his chest" "Someone straight will hardly believe it" "So what do you do then?" "As a rule, people who ask things like that are pretty relaxed" "They are really nice" "They come here to get something they can't get elsewhere" "They pay for it and then they go away" "They aren't troublemakers" "One came along, not so long ago, who wanted his private parts sewn together" "So you really do a lot of things" "You're a bit of a surgeon..." "One came in once who paid me" "I said him: "Take off your clothes"" "He's wearing his underpants" "And I saw a big thing on his underpants" "I thought he had a really huge prick inside them" "I thought I'm not going to manage with that one" "And he took off his underpants and stood there naked holding two pieces of wood horizontal pieces held together with screws at each end" ""I'll pay you, and the tighter you squeeze me with these, the more you hurt me, the more I'll pay you"" "He had all the right tools, screwdriver and so on..." "Not his cock, but his balls..." "So in that case you were a mechanic!" "That's how he enjoyed himself" "The tighter I screwed it and the more it hurt him the better he liked it" "He went bright purple and cold, and he was really happy" "But after a bit I wanted to stop because I thought they were going to burst" "He said they wouldn't, but I stopped anyway after that" "And there was another one who came up to me and he said:" ""Can you run an electric current through my balls?" " An electric current!" "?" " That's right, I've tried it before and it doesn't hurt" "Oh yeah, but I don't want you dying in my bed because I'd have a lot of trouble afterwards" "I'm looking through my papers" "So as to tell you how much old age pension I get every quarter" "Old age?" "What does that mean for you?" "Old people retiring" "Retiring?" "That's like a retreat?" "No, I'm retired" "I don't work anymore" "Retired?" "I'm 65" "They allowed me to retire at 60 because I wasn't fit to work any longer" "Unfit for work" "For what work?" "Cleaning" "You aren't fit to do the dusting?" "No, I'm not up to that, or sweeping the floor, or anything" "So how do you do at home?" "I take it very gently" "But I really can't do it" "What gets done gets done, and doesn't..." "I've got neighbours who sometimes give me a hand" "But really thorough cleaning, I can't do that myself" "Do you know who you're talking to?" "To you" "And who's behind me?" "A girl?" "the radio?" "Yes, the radio, and also?" "People are watching you there, aren't they?" "Maybe so" "That's television" "Yes, television, I couldn't really say..." "You have to remind me because I've had a turn and I can't remember what I was going to say" "I was in a coma for three years" "When was that?" "A couple of years ago" "That's why I can't remember things" "Have you ever talked in front of a million people?" "No, I don't think so..." "Because at this very moment a million people are listening to you" "Listening to me?" "Do you want to make use of this opportunity to say something?" "Yes, I just want to say that old people have very low incomes and prices are going up all the time and we just can't keep going on the amount we get" "Perhaps there's some job you could do which is different from the one you had?" "No, I couldn't do it" "Well, perhaps you could do something else..." "like flower picking?" "I can't walk!" "There's something wrong with my heart" "I daren't tell you all my illnesses because..." "Go on, tell it." "People might learn something" "How do you feel?" "Does it make you miserable having all this illnesses?" "I'm in good spirits" "But I can't quite get enough strength to do things" "Suppose you were asked to talk once a week as a job talking about the way you felt, about whether you were in good spirits" "So you could perhaps make the million people listening to you feel better" "That's a sort of job you could do" "Oh yes, I could do that" "But I'd have to be careful not to do too many hours" "And I'd lose my supplementary pension" "So I'm not allowed to work" "And if I do, they take away your supplementary pension" "I'm just filling in the forms to get it" "And it takes six months for the forms to go through" "You mentioned VAT and electricity" "Electricity costs me 15,000F a month" "Old francs, not new francs" "And 2,127F of that is VAT" "That's worth two days' meals to me" "What do you eat?" "Vegetables, like everyone else" "And on top of that there's coal..." "And my pension is not very big" "I get 152,000F a quarter" "Take off the 150F for electricity" "Every quarter you've got the electricity and the gas!" "Do you ever think about future?" "No!" "What for?" "I'd only start to worry" "How would I get by?" "So at the moment I've no worries" "If I can't manage I can't manage, and if I get by, well and good" "Have you got friends?" "Lots!" "I know all the ladies on the quai Perrière" "And I even know the mayor of the Saint-Laurent district" "He's very nice" "He often arranges free outings for us" "Or sometimes people who look after the old persons of the district arrange outings for us" "And we pay hardly anything" "We went on ever such a nice trip to Aosta, Italy" "And we came back over the Little Saint Bernard Pass" "All that for 1,000F" "And we got meals thrown in!" "The mayor of the Saint-Laurent district is really like a camp leader" "He is very good to old peaople" "And all my neighbours are with me" "You know, when I'm ill there are about 15 people in the house" "Young people, old people, all sorts..." "But I always say hello to everybody" "Do you know more women than men?" "I know both" "As many men as women, and as many women as men" "Anybody who comes to my house is a friend" "Like young Daniele or young Christiane..." "If a child, your granddaughter for example, asked you:" ""What is the difference between you and me?"" "What would you say?" "I can't say because I don't speak to my daughter" "And my granddaughters don't visit me" "It's always the same problem for us, old folk" "They got married but they didn't invite granny to the wedding" "They said the old fol wan't come to their granddaughters' weddings" "But I went to the wedding of my son's daughter" "And why does it bother you?" "Because I helped to bring up my granddaughters" "But when they are 18 or 20, granny isn't anybody anymore" "What do you mean by "bring up"?" "I helped them when they had no money, when the children were very small" "I did all that I could" "But when they reach 16 or 17, it's as tough their grandmother didn't exist" "But say more exactly what you mean by "brought up"" "When they needed money, they asked me and I gave it to them" "I was working at the Baronnat School and I wasn't badly paid" "And my boss was very nice so..." "I helped them in any way I could" "Well, I'm younger than you" "So if I asked you: "what is it like being older..."" ""What did you body feel like when you were a little girl"" "How can you tell me about that now?" "We don't really know what old people feel" "And tomorrow we will be old people too" "So can you tell me how I'll feel when I'm your age?" "It depends on people's characters" "I've always liked old people" "I've always been pleasant to everyone" "It depends on the children's characters" "My son's little daughter is very sweet" "But the rest..." "It depends how you bring children up" "We give the children their feelings" "Are there things you thought about when you were a girl and thay you don't think about anymore?" "No" "I've always been very young at heart" "I've always thought, as I do now, about going out to work and about my children, and where we might go for a walk, and so on" "But when you were a girl you hadn't yet had your children?" "No, when I was a girl, I was sent to my sister's, in the country" "I was completely alone" "I didn't even go to school" "Were you often in love?" "No, I didn't have many opportunities" "I had to watch the sheep and the cows" "And they don't whisper sweet nothings" "But then you had children, didn't you?" "Yes I had two" "I got married" "Were you in love when you got married?" "A bit" "I wasn't very happy at home" "I was brought up by my sister and she was a bit hard on me" "So I tried to get married quickly so as to leave home" "And later, I had to get divorced" "But I kept my two children" "And I brought them up as best I could" "I made sure they both had a trade as I worked so hard" "And my bosses were very kind to me" "Monsieur  Mme Bouron, the insurance agents, and the Baronat School" "I don't know if you know them" "Let's go back to my problem" "I'd like you to explain to me what it's like being old in comparison with being younger" "If you had the chance, would you like to be in love with someone?" "Oh but I am!" "Are you?" "I live with someone" "Yes, it's very satisfying" "And I'm happy with him" "Anyway I couldn't live alone" "I'd pine away and..." "And what use is he, this someone?" "He helps me live!" "Could you be more precise?" "Does he do the washing up?" "Does he kiss you?" "He's disabled too" "But he still cooks my dinner quite often" "He brings me coffee in bed in the morning and the newspaper" "I'm very spoilt" "I'm having quite a good time just now" "And I hope it goes on like that" "Not everyone has forgotten me" "There's just one who forgets me..." "Who?" "My daughter and that's very hard" "Why?" "Well, when you're a mother and you love your grandchildren as much as me, and then hardly to see them at all..." "I'm a great grandmother and I don't know my great granddaughters" "And that's painful" "Where is it painful?" "In the heart." "Believe me" "When I see little children who are the same age as my great granddaughters, it breaks my heart" "Why do you say "my"?" "They aren't yours" "It's as tough they were mine" "You aren't a grandfather" "But what about the neighbour's child, isn't it yours?" "Oh, they come in all the time, but it's not the same" "Could you try to tell me in what way it isn't the same?" "Is the child your property, like an object?" "Yes, it's my property" "But a human being surely isn't an object" "No, of course not" "But you know there's such a thing as family ties" "I can't really explain it..." "I love children" "Many come to my home" "But it's not the same as one's own grandchildren" "Are they a part of you?" "Perhaps that's it" "I can't really explain it" "But I can tell you that it makes me heartsick not to know my great grandchildren" "Supposing you had to choose between knowing your grandchildren, which you haven't been able to do, and knowing this someone who is your friend, which would you choose?" "Well at the moment, I've really turned to my friend for help" "So it wouldn't be my grandchildren" "Besides they're not around all the time" "No, I'd only live for him now" "Why?" "What happened just recently?" "They didn't invite me to my granddaughter's wedding" "Perhaps it's not very important, but it is to me" "Do you find it difficult to talk about sex?" "No" "You know, your programme about girls was a bit weak" "You set them up, you question them, you more or less tell them how to reply" "And then you're surprised that you can't find anybody" "Perhaps they don't want to come in here just like that" "I wouldn't like it myself..." "Cigarettes" "The price went up to 200F a packet" "What are all those poor old men in hospital who are used to smoke pipe going to do?" "Where are they supposed to get the money?" "If they take everything away from us there's not much point in going on living" "Who did you write to?" "I sent a letter saying that I didn't like them depriving poor old men of things 'cause really..." "We're pretty worn out and we like a smoke now and again" "I don't know, have a drag" "What's the nice thing about it?" "It seems to relieve the tension" "I learned to smoke in the hospital!" "When I was very ill" "And I smoke cigarettes" "But I'm going to have to give up now they cost 200F a packet" "All the old people have the same problem" "It's not just me" "All the old boys who want to buy tobacco, what are they supposed to do?" "When I go and see someone in hospital I take them cigarettes" "So they forget about their troubles" "Can smoking make you forget your troubles?" "Yes" "I do like that" "Sometimes I just hold a cigarette without lighting it and I feel things get better" "It helps just to hold a cigarette" "Does it keep you occupied?" "Yes it keeps me occupied" "It keeps your mind off things" "When I'm taking a drag I don't think about anything else" "So 250F isn't too much to pay to forget your troubles?" "Oh yes it is" "If I smoked 20 cigarettes a day" " I don't, but if I did - that would cost me nearly 20,000F a month" "Just a moment ago you said that you had no worries at the moment and you said that if you are prevented from smoking you are unhappy because smoking helps you to forget what's worrying you... well, you're always worried about something" "For example, when I'm into the 2nd month of my pension it starts getting to me" "Then I start smoking a bit" "How many worries are got rid of per cigarette?" "I've never counted!" "DIRECTED BY"