"_" "(Radio chatter)" "Hi." "Hey." "Billie," "I need you to tell me what you're thinking, baby." "I'm thinking about that loft apartment we had and that brown leather sectional your mom gave us." "And that old trunk we used as a coffee table." "I think it was a Saturday because I wasn't working." "And I remember we shoved everything against the wall... so you could lay out all your documents... the papers, the files, the witness lists, the photographs... because the trial started that Monday." "And you looked at me at one point and you said..." " I hope I can do this." " I hope I can do this." "And I remember thinking that was the first time" "I ever saw you show any doubt." "And now I'm thinking you could have told me then." " But, Billie, I..." " Setting aside the moment you did it, the day after you did it, and the 11 years in between, that was the one time you could have told me." "And what would you have said then?" "You buried evidence." "You broke the law." "You tell me right now, Adam." "Did you know about the DNA?" " No." " Did you know about the second sample inside Emily?" "No, it was just the photographs." "It was a mistake." "It was my mistake." "But I believe..." "I knew they were guilty." "So you're telling me if none of this would have happened, if Clark and his people hadn't found anything, you would have never told me?" "(Sighs)" "Adam, have there been other mistakes since?" " No." " Don't." "Billie, I will never cross that line again." "I never will." "We had a deal, you and me." "Remember?" "In law school." "You would take the lead, I wanted a child." "I would make the money." "You would move ahead and take your place and then it would be my turn." "And the only way it would work, we agreed, is if we were in it together through all of it." "We would make every decision together and we would tell each other everything." "That is what the plan was and that is what I believed in." "And now you've left me in the dark without a choice." "A decision that could take us both down." "Do you think I became a corporate lawyer because that's who I am?" "Do you think that's my dream?" "I don't even recognize who we are right now." " (Doorbell rings) - (Soft chatter)" "Hey, Mom." "Come on in." " Oh, God." "I can't believe it." " Yeah." " Where's Dad?" " Oh, he's still asleep." "There's people here already." " Man:" "Terry Kucik?" " Christine:" "Who are you?" "I'm the house arrest officer." "I'm here to get you fitted for your ankle bracelet." " Want to have a seat?" " He just walked in the door." "Please?" "Adam:" "I'm not asking for anything here." "We know each other too well." "I can apologize 100 different ways, but I still broke something I have to fix." "And I lost your trust and it's up to me to get it back." "That's it." "What's your next move, Adam?" "Talk to the DNA tech Rhubari and my father." "He knew the detectives on the case." "Does your father know you buried those photos?" "Adam, did he help you?" "The judge is working on your home detention agreement." "Until then, you can't leave the house." "This ankle bracelet has a GPS in it." "It sends a signal to our base every one to five minutes." " How's that feel?" "Not too tight?" " It's fine." "So if you decide to go out your designated area, they're gonna let me know." "They call me, I call your cell phone." "If you don't pick up, I got to send a patrol car after you." " I'm gonna need your number." " Here, I have his number." "What if I need to go out the house for a smoke or something?" "You can't." "You can't even take out the garbage." "Not without that agreement." "Any location... doctors, jobs, lawyers... has to be approved beforehand by the judge with documentation." "Any kind of change in your schedule, you got to let me know 72 hours in advance." "Christine:" "We're working on the agreement, Terry." "It should be done as soon as we can." "What's the 400 bucks a month for?" "That's what the unit costs." "Paid for by the offender." "You guys have a good day." "(Theme music playing)" "(playing)" " (silverware clinking) - (Sizzling)" "Hey." "Do you want ham with your grilled cheese or tomato?" "Tomato's good." "Thanks." "(TV playing)" "You expect me to pay for that thing on your ankle?" "I'll take care of it." "Gonna get a job." "You can't even leave the house." "How the hell are you gonna get a job?" "I got people helping me." "Why'd they let you out?" "Because I didn't do it, Dad." "All of a sudden they figured that out?" " Yeah." " Hey." "Here." "Oh, what do you want to drink?" " What's this?" " Oh, I just made Terry some lunch." " You want something?" " I don't want him in here when I'm in here." "I don't want him anywhere I can see him as long as they're forcing me to keep him here." "I'm not gonna be a prisoner in my own house." "He can eat in his room." " Nathan, you agreed." " No, Mom, it's okay, really." "You wanted this, not me." "Okay, this needs to get to the judge." "Here's Terry's job letter." "Judge's clerk said the printers are down." "Might be faster if I run them over myself." "Okay, I will call and give them a heads up." "When can Terry come in to see us?" "Um, it'll take a while to process." "We probably won't get the home detention agreement till later today." "He can come in tomorrow." "My bar exam is tomorrow." "I won't be here." "No, you won't." "And you shouldn't be here right now." "Go home, study." "Don't you have to study?" "I'm not a law intern." "I'm working here to prep for a job with the ACLU." "I have no interest in being a lawyer." "(Phone rings)" "Terry?" "I've been with my parents for two hours and I want to go back to prison." "(laughs) You'll get out tomorrow." "Look, I didn't get a chance to thank you." "You know, I wouldn't even be able to bitch like this if it weren't for you." "Well, we're a long way from where we want to be." "Clark will explain it all to you tomorrow." " What time?" " Uh... here, talk to Clark." "It's Terry." "Hey." " How about noon?" "Okay?" " Yeah." "Oh, and before I forget, one of the conditions of your release and for your own safety is to keep your presence unknown to anyone outside family and work." "Don't look up old friends." "If you recognize anyone coming at you, just walk the other way." " Okay." " All right, let me give you directions to get here." "Are you taking a bus or the subway?" "Okay." "Are you familiar with Rittenhouse Square?" "Man on phone:" "Rhubari?" "Yeah, I know him." " Wish I didn't." " You used him in Pittsburgh?" "Oh, yeah." "Rhubari was our DNA go-to guy." "Always let us jump the line to get our results early." "He made a great witness, too." "Loved an audience." "Larry said there was a grand jury investigation." "Yeah, that was here." "Eight out of 15 cases he tested for DNA went bad." "Bad how?" "And why didn't we hear about it?" "He made a deal." "He'd quit the DNA lab, go quietly." "You know how it is." "Reopening his cases, cleaning up his messes, nobody wanted to go near it." "Best thing for everybody was for the guy to just disappear." " Do you know where he is?" " Oh, yeah." "He's teaching a college course in DNA forensics." "The guy's a roach." "He just keeps crawling back." " Okay, thank you." " No problem." " Take care." " You, too." "(slams receiver)" " You going to lunch?" " Yeah, in a minute." " You want anything?" " No, I'm good." "Someone just dropped this off for you." "Thanks." "Christine's voice: "I hope I'm not crossing the line here, but Terry Kucik wrote many times about your sister." "I've highlighted those parts for you." "I thought you might want to read them." "With respect, Christine Rosa."" "Terry's voice: "I'd see her around that whole spring during the job, but we never talked to each other." "I mean, she'd say hi or morning." "She was always nice to us." "It wasn't till summer that we got together." "She was way smarter than me." "Knew everything about everything." "But she never acted like it mattered." "I knew I wasn't good enough for her, but she didn't." "She didn't see people that way." "She even got me thinking I could go to college for engineering or to be an architect." "I once drew this sketch of this loft apartment we would live in." "Gave it to her for her birthday." "She hung it up on her wall." "I know it sounds silly, but it meant a lot to me that she loved that drawing."" "Love In the Heart of the City" playing" "Part one: one hour, 30 minutes." "I wish you all luck." "Begin." "♪ Ain't no love ♪" "♪ In the heart of the city ♪" "♪ Ain't no love ♪" "♪ In the heart of town ♪" "♪ Ain't no love ♪" "♪ And it's sure 'nuff a pity ♪" "♪ There ain't no love ♪" "♪ 'Cause you ain't around... ♪" "(exhales)" "♪ When you were mine ♪" "♪ Oh, I was feeling so good ♪" "♪ 'Cause your love lit up ♪" "♪ This whole neighborhood ♪" "♪ But now that you're gone ♪" "♪ You know the sun don't shine ♪" "♪ From the city hall ♪" "♪ To the county line ♪" "♪ And that's why I said ain't no love ♪" "♪ In the heart of the city ♪" "♪ Ain't no love ♪" "♪ In the heart of town ♪" "♪ Ain't no love... ♪" "Hey, man, you got any gloves?" " Back wall." " Thanks." "And a pack of Bilson's." "(Cash register beeping, screeching)" "$17.31." " Wait, how much for the cigarettes?" " $11." "Cigarettes cost more than the gloves?" "Jesus." "Here, give me a lollipop, too." "Thanks." "♪ Ain't no love ♪" "♪ And ain't it a pity?" "♪" "♪ Ain't no love ♪" "♪ 'Cause you ain't around, Lord... ♪" " What are you doing?" " What?" "What are you doing on the PATCH database looking into homicides?" "Look, I'm just doing a friend a favor." "It's really not a big deal." "What friend?" "What does Ida Bankowski have to do with anything?" "The Bankowski case is closed." "Well, she's missing and my friend wants to find her, see if she's okay." "When did the Roundhouse become your personal investigation resource?" "The intelligence officer who monitors that database reports to the commissioner every time he sees a red flag." "Like why is a vice cop looking for investigative information on a homicide that's none of his business?" "Nothing to do with his caseload." "Noted." "You pull that shit again, you're on suspension." "Hi, do you have a second to talk about gay marriage?" "Hey, oh, can I talk to you about gay marriage for a sec?" "If we get Pennsylvania to approve, it might tip the scales." "There's nothing in our state constitution that says that we can't do the same thing." "Look, I'm really late." "I'm sorry." "How about just your signature for a letter to the state supreme court?" " Are you a registered voter?" " No, no, no." "I'm sorry." "I'm pretty lost right now." "Do you need help?" " Where do you have to go?" " Yeah." "Oh, okay, yeah." "I get so turned around down here myself." "It's that way two blocks." "Make a right and then take a left on Walnut Street." " Great." "Thank you." " Yeah." "Excuse me, can I talk to you about gay marriage for a sec?" "Clark:" "There's your house and its perimeter, your job, this office, and your parole officer's." "What if I want to get out of the house?" "I mean, go to a gym, get a DVD or something?" "DVDs died while you were in prison." "You're allowed a three-hour time-out period once a week for the purpose of purchasing items, supplies, including but not limited to health, clothing, and personal care." "Once you choose your time-out period, it doesn't change." "Doesn't have to be authorized every week by your house arrest officer." "Our judge is actually a pretty good guy." "Because Christine is vouching for you as a coworker, he's allowing you to work at Maxine's." " You start tomorrow." " Okay." "I need you to go straight from your house to the bar and then back home." "You want me to give you a ride?" "Can't have you getting lost again." "They almost put an APB out on you." "No, I'll be fine." "Kind of like being outside, you know?" "At the very least, let's download the directions onto your phone." "Yeah, how do I do that?" "Right, yeah." "Let me show you." "Let's see here." "Shouldn't be that tricky here." "Want to tell me about that?" "What do you want to know?" "Is it art?" "Is it a belief?" " Are you still in the club?" " No." "No, I'll work it out." "I got to be honest." "You scare me a little bit." "Getting lost, being late, you can't do that." "And this suspect of yours and hanging with the AB." "Now, I don't care who you are." "If you're innocent, I'll fight for you." "But I got this thing about Nazis." "I don't know how anybody survives a prison sentence, so I'm not judging you for doing whatever it is you had to do to stay alive in there." "But out here, that ends or you're on your own." "And that name you wrote down... it's dangerous." "Not just to you, to Christine, too." "See, she's got a curiosity problem." "And it doesn't take much to set her off, so I'm gonna need you to forget about that." "It doesn't do anybody any good." "All right." "But do you think he knows I'm out?" "Eric or his father?" "There's no way to know for sure." "Billie:" "Hey, sweetie." "You want to grab a coffee?" " Um..." " What's that?" ""Run Away" playing" "Welcome to day two of the bar exam." "Begin." " Maxine?" " Terry?" "You're early." "Yeah, I was dressed and ready to go at 6:00." "Ah." "Come on in." "Have a seat." "You want a cup of coffee?" "We have to do a little talk first." "Yeah, sure." "You ever worked in a bar before?" "No, never." "What kind of jobs did you do on the inside?" "They moved me around over the years." "You know, laundry, cleaned the bathrooms, cooked." " What?" " Stews, chili... you know, that kind of thing." "Whatever I'd find, I'd throw it in a pot, you know?" "What'd you do for flavor?" "I didn't learn about flavor until about three years in." "Got pretty good with the spices, onions." "Kind of partial to that Sriracha stuff." " (laughs)" " You know?" "If you put a few carrots in with the meat sauce, apparently it gives it a sweeter taste." "The Italian guys taught me that." "(Chuckles) Take your coat off." " I'll show you around." " Thanks." "Adam:" "I don't understand why this is a problem, Pops." "You're telling me you want to investigate my department, my people, men who served under me, under my guidance and with my trust and you don't see any problem with that?" " Jenny's ID was manipulated." " The hell it was." "Based on what facts?" "Based on the fact that I'm the son of a cop." "I know the tricks." "We got the right men." "A second DNA sample that was covered up." "Because your boy in Jersey said so?" "Yes." "It matches the killer's DNA under Frances Butler's fingernails." "Now there was a second man in that house." "Not Terry Kucik." "And his identity is being protected by the men who worked on the case." "This DNA bullshit." "Pops, the man who murdered a black family is still out there." "I don't believe it." "My men solved that case like the professionals they are." "Under enormous pressure, if you remember correctly." "Nobody could have done it better." "And a piece of shit like Bankowski makes a death row confession about his accomplice, and we're supposed to believe him over my men and the evidence?" "(Scoffs)" "You go back to your boyfriend in Jersey and tell him to do that test again." "See if he comes up with Denzel Washington's DNA next time." "You can blow it off all you want, but it's a fact." "There was a second DNA and it was never admitted into evidence." "Like those photos, right?" "What?" "I mean, what, is that supposed to make me feel guilty for asking questions?" "You already feel guilty." "That's why you're here." "And that's why you can't let it go." "And your guilt is making you weak and scared and I'm disgusted to see it in you." "You got some nerve coming in here pointing your finger at my men." "Cops who built you from the ground up." "What is that supposed to mean?" "Every case you won, every case, was down to the work that my men did." "Good cops." "Nobody knows their names, but everybody knows yours." "And now you want to blame them and hold them up to everybody so that the only time people do get to know their names is because you think they did something wrong." "Well, I'm not gonna let that happen." "Did they do something wrong?" "I don't need your permission to find out." "Don't get all tough guy with me, son." "You need people to talk and nobody's gonna talk to you or anybody from your office." " I can issue subpoenas." " And go public?" "All right, go ahead." "I know you better than you know yourself." "You came to me 'cause you wanted to keep this quiet until you get it all wrapped up the way that you want it." "And then you can make a big show of how you solved it all." "Why should that bother you?" "You're the one who taught me that's how it's done." "I taught you you don't sacrifice your men." "Bankowski's dead." "No one's talking about him anymore." "And as for that other one, you can get him paroled on reasonable doubt or whatever other trick you have up your sleeve." "Or send his ass back to the penitentiary." "'Cause sadly, it makes no difference to anybody." "(Coughs)" " Are you still sick?" " I'm sick of this conversation." "Go on." "I got things to do." "Hi, Billie." " Hey." " Nice to see you." " You, too." " What are you doing here?" "Have you met Jenny Butler?" "No, we've never met in person." " Clark Rylance." " Hi." "So what can I do for you?" "Well, these came from your office." "(Sighs) I didn't know anything about these, I'm sorry." " I want to meet him." " Excuse me?" "She wants to meet Terry Kucik." "The exam is over." "Congratulations." "(cheering)" "She's nice, this woman?" "Who, Maxine?" "Yeah." "She gets it, you know?" "She's like family to Christine." "Her dad's on death row, so..." "Huh, no wonder you fit right in." "If you're not gonna sit with us, you don't have to listen." "So what kind of work are you doing for this woman?" "You know, I prep the bar, clean up." "She might even let me start cooking at some point." "See?" "It's all gonna work out now." "You think he's gonna keep that job when she finds out he's a Nazi?" "You sound like a damn idiot, Celia." " Hey!" "Hey!" " Terry!" "Now you listen to me, old man." "I don't give a shit what you think about me." "But you watch your mouth around my mother, you understand?" "Okay, okay, I see." "You think you became a man in prison?" "Is that what you think?" " Oh, please." "Please." " That's enough." "You think you paint something on your hand, it changes what you are?" " You don't know who I am!" " I have no interest!" " That's right." "You never did." " That's right." "Like you." "You think you thought about your mother and me?" "About what we lost when you did what you did?" "She hasn't had a friend to talk to in years." "Everybody turns their back on her in the grocery store." "That's what they do." "They turn their back on her in the grocery store." "I had to change my name to get a lousy part-time job in Jersey on somebody else's crew." "At my age working for a foreman 30 years younger than me." "Now, you have any interest in that?" "Spoiled brat son of a bitch." "Wanted anything you couldn't have." "And I told you about that black girl." "I told you and I was right about that." "Just shut up, okay?" "Shut up." "What happened?" "You ruined our lives." "You ruined our lives and for what?" "For what?" "So you could get a little taste for yourself?" "Me on!" " Come on!" " Nathan!" "Get off!" " Nathan!" " Get off of me!" "Listen, don't." "Nate?" "I don't want you here." "You understand?" "I'm calling the judge, the court, whoever and I'm telling them I don't want you here." "I don't care where you go and I don't care what happens to you." "I don't want you here." "You understand?" "!" "Let him go." "(Groaning)" "Mr. Page." "It's been a long time." " How are you?" " Very well, thank you." "I was reading about some DNA issues with the Bankowski case, but after the execution, there was no more news." " Was it resolved?" " Yes." "Good." "So what can I do for you?" "I have another class in 20 minutes." "By resolved, I mean I know you falsified the match for Bankowski." "By resolved, I know there was a second DNA sample found inside Emily Butler that you buried." "(Scoffs)" "You have an unusual way of getting to the point." "Oh, yeah, I get to the point." "I don't know what you came here expecting me to say." "I'm not obliged to answer any questions." "I want you to tell me what happened." "Am I being accused of a crime here?" "Are you just really lousy at your job?" "Is that why you're a teacher?" " Do you have a subpoena?" " No." "Mr. Page, I have immunity from any errors committed" "In Pittsburgh, not in Philadelphia." "There are many kinds of immunity." "Meaning what?" "You are the district attorney and you make a personal visit to question me about a case that's over a decade old, a case that ended in an execution you fought for." "We were all on the same side, Mr. Page, so forgive me if I'm confused by what you don't know." "One has to question how well you did your job." "Maybe you should be teaching." "You think they're gonna pay you to keep quiet?" "They don't need you around anymore." "Look, I know you are nothing but a scumbag for hire." "But there's no more money in it, is there?" "You played out your hand and now you're stuck in the middle between me and whoever you're protecting." "And once they find out I'm looking for them, the only help you can get is from me." "They already know you're looking." "Who?" "Like you said," "I'm all out of cards." "My private number is on the back." " (Intercom buzzes)" " Woman:" "Your 1:30 is here." "Send him in." "Hey, come on in, Bobby." "You want a coffee?" "No, I'm good." "So I hear you're working." "Part-time." "You remember Eugene." "From the force." "Italian." "Twin brother." "Oh, yeah." "Didn't he retire?" "Started a little security company." "They do big events, clubs, you know, that kind of thing." " I met him in AA." " Yeah, that's great." " That's great, Bobby." " Okay." "You still going to AA?" "I catch a meeting every now and then." "You know, I'm cool." "Look, man, you don't want me to come by your house no more, you don't have to bring me down here and give me a talking to." " I'm not a child." " No, it's not that at all." "Trey loved seeing you." "Oh, now he's a good one." "(laughs)" "Billie know I'm here?" " No." " (Laughs)" "I'm gonna tell her, but no." "I needed to see you." "For what?" "You were a good cop before you started drinking." "Baby, I was a good cop while I was drinking." "Ain't many of us can face it out there sober all the time." "They hypocrites if they say so." "Yeah, I crossed the line, but still," "I don't think they should have taken away my pension." "Can you do something about that?" "No." "I didn't think so." "It was your father that pretty much made it happen, so..." "There's no need in bringing up the past, Bobby." "Don't want that Page name in the papers with a black sheep relative on the force." "Oh, no." "You crashed a police car on the Girard Avenue Bridge, Bobby." "You damn near fell over the side." "Well, like you say, there's no reason to bring up the past." "I have work for you, Bobby." "Police work." "Except only you and me can know about it." "You interested?" "Is it all right if I talk to you?" "Yeah, sure." "They told me you were gonna come by." "I had to see you in person to ask you." "Did you hurt my sister?" "No." "Do you know who the other man was?" "The one who hurt her?" "No." "I wish I did." "She would have wanted you to have it back." "I'm sorry." "No, you don't have to be." "None of this was your fault." "(People chatting)" "I didn't want you working tonight." "That's not why I did this." "I barely talk to these people in the office." "I feel safer behind the bar." " Where's Danny?" " Coming after his shift." " Terry, you want a shot?" " Uh, no, thank you." " He's working." " So am I." "So you get my brother into this without asking me?" "Hey, we agreed to tell each other everything, not ask for permission." "But you're gonna make it worse, Adam." "You can't trust him." "Okay, well, who can I trust, then, Billie?" "You tell me." "I can't get inside this thing with my father blocking the way." "I need outside help." "Bobby can get the cops he knew back in the day." "Maybe find out some things." "What's wrong with that?" "What's wrong with that?" "He's Bobby." "He's a drunk." "He's a screw up." "Man, you do not let things pass, do you?" "How can you say that to me?" "You know what I've been through with him." "When my mother was sick, when my mother died, where was he?" "The only time he shows up is when he wants me to pay for something." "Well, then give the man a chance to earn his own way back." "He was kicked off the force, okay?" "He has no business doing police work." "Any citizen can ask any question of anyone in conversation." " This is not official." " All right... right." "There you go, sidestepping what's legal." "I'm so..." "I'm just..." "I'm confused as to what side of the law you work for." "You want to talk about the law?" " Yeah, let's talk about the law." " Let's talk about it." "I don't doubt you never broke a law in your entire career." " That's right." " That's right, perfect record." "Doing it all legal." "That's your specialty." "Like setting up a nonprofit for Stanley Zale that's just a front for campaign funds." "First of all, you have no business talking to me about that." "Second of all, everything that I have done for Stanley Zale is legal." "Everything." "Exactly." "You make sure of that." "But is making it legal make it all right for you?" "You look the other way as soon as your job is done." "And you're satisfied." "You tell me I broke the law to get a conviction I believed in." "I believed I was in it for justice." "Do you believe in what you're doing?" "Making Zale legal so nobody can find the shit he's hiding in." "You have no idea what it's cost me to put you on the pedestal you're standing on." "Ugh, God." "The air feels so good." "It's freezing." "That's the tequila you're feeling." "How's the job?" " It's good." " Yeah?" "What happened to your hand?" "I did a stupid, stupid thing." "I, um..." "I saw you looking at it when we first met." "You know, I was only with them to survive in there." "It's not who I am." "All right?" "Yeah, I know." "Come on, come back inside." "No, no, I don't belong in there." "I'm gonna stay out here." "You go in, though." "You know, Jenny Butler came to see me today." "Clark told me." "What happened?" "What did she say?" "She said that she was sorry." "It was so strange." "We just sat there, staring at each other." "You know, I wasn't angry, or... but I could see she was hurting bad." "I know that type of hurt." "It doesn't go away easy." "I failed the bar." "What?" "I haven't told anybody, but..." "I failed." "Hang on, how do you know?" "Oh, I know." "There is no way..." "Don't tell anybody, though." "No." "Did you really want to be a lawyer?" "No." " Then what's the problem?" " (Laughs) I know, right?" "(laughing)" "Come on, it's freezing." "Let's go inside." "No, it's funny, though, because... see, I'm trying to help my dad, but every time... every time I try, every time," "I screw up, and so bad..." "I was a kid when it happened." "You know, I was staying with him the weekend that they said he committed murder." "I was in the house with him." "I woke up." "I used to have night terrors back in the day when I actually slept." "My dad would read to me." "It was the only way I'd ever fall back asleep." "So that's what I told them in court." "I woke up with night terrors and Dad was there and he read to me until I fell asleep." "But they didn't believe it." "They said he put me to bed and then left the house." "And by the time I woke up, he was back." "And they just kept hitting me with numbers and times and..." "I sucked at math." "I got all confused." "I had it all worked out." "And then when I got on the stand, they just... they just tore me to pieces." "Yeah, but you didn't put your dad in prison." "I made things worse." "You were just a kid." "What's my excuse now?" "Come on, let's get back inside." "Isaiah." "Stanley." "I was so sorry to hear about your wife." "Thank you." "What do you want?" "(laughs)" "Well, first thing is, I want you to stop acting like I'm the only one here with a problem." "Maybe you are." "No, no, no." "We both have sons."