"¶ ¶" "Jesse Helms:" "RobertMapplethorpe, aknownhomosexual whodiedof AIDS andwhospent thelastyearsofhislife promotinghomosexuality." "Now,ifanysenatordoesn't knowwhatI'mtalkingabout intermsof theart  thatI haveprotested, look at the pictures!" "Now,anysenatorwho thinks thatI 'mattacking aestheticart" "I don't know whether the television cameras can see it or not," "I'm gonna be fast enough with it that they can't." "But I want senators to come over here, if they have any doubt, and look at the pictures." "Reporter:" "InCincinnati,policeclosed down the Mapplethorpe exhibit." "We are sending the Mapplethorpe exhibit to trial." "Helms:" "Comeoverhere." "Lookatthepictures." "Alex Trebeck:" "One of two artists whose works led to a dispute..." "Helms:" "Lookatthepictures." "Lookatthepictures." "Lookatthepictures." "(beeps) Who is Mapplethorpe?" "Dan Rather:" "Theartgallery anditsdirector are charged with obscenity for exhibiting photographs by the late Robert Mapplethorpe." "Helms:" "Lookatthepictures." "Mapplethorpe's work is highly controversial." "Can I show it to you?" "I don't want to look at it." "Helms:" "Idon'tevenacknowledge thatit'sart." "Protesters:" "Keepyourhandsoff !" "Helms:" "Idon'tevenacknowledge thatthefellowwho did it wasanartist." "Ithinkhe wasajerk ... (echoing):" "...jerk,jerk." "¶ ¶" "Archivist:" "Thisisoneoffive vaults inwhichMapplethorpe's archiveresides." "Audiovisualmaterialis  inhere along with more ephemeral paperwork from his studio and personal correspondence." "Photographs are in a cooler environment, and Polaroids are in an even colder environment." "¶ ¶" "Woman:" "One of our big challenges is to really make a case for why we're doing two concurrent exhibitions..." "Man:" "Right." "...about one artist." "Thisistwosides ofonecoin." "Yeah." "Thereisadualitythat runs  throughMapplethorpe's workandlife andwehopetobeable todividethematerial ina waythatwould highlightthatduality." "This is a box of self-portraits." "Right." "Oh." "Oh." "Yeah, biker jacket from the back." "Yeah." "I really like this white piping and how it leads up to this other shape." "Yeah." "That's one of the great ones." "Male curator:" "WhenyousayMapplethorpe, peopleimmediatelythink ofthecontroversiesthat happenedduringthe'90s." ""Guerrilla Rebel."" "Yeah." "Male curator:" "Mapplethorpewas beingdemonized by conservative politicians, sooneof ourgoalswas tohumanizeMapplethorpe, tobringhimbackinto  people'sconsciousness asa humanbeing." "It's quite convincing." "Ah." "Oh." "Mapplethorpe and bullwhip." "I remember it being a slightly higher contrast." "It's a different paper." "Right." "This is a lot warmer and softer." "Mm-hmm." "The way his hand is, it's so great, it almost looks like he's releasing a shadow." "Yes." "Because that cord comes just to the edge of the frame." "The cord kind of connects the viewer with Mapplethorpe." "Yeah." "Because it's coming out of the picture." "As well as the eye contact." "Right." "Obviously, it's very defiant." "He's not hiding his face." "He's not hiding his identity." "He's not hiding what he's doing." "¶ ¶" "¶ ¶" "(shutter clicks)" "Robert was just..." "my younger brother." "I'm the oldest." "That's myself, my brother Richard," "Robert, Edward, Sue, and James." "That'sthesixofus." "Whenwewereyoung, wedidalot ofcoloring." "Robertalways hadweirdthings." "He'd have a green face, or... just not the norm." "Purple hair, or something." "And I'd say, "Why are you doing that for?" ""That's not the way it's supposed to be."" "As far as, like, photographs, he never took photographs." "Mydadtook alotof photographs." "Robert,hehadnointerest inthatat all." "Harry:" "My wife and I and the children movedherein 1949." "Iwasalwaysinterested inphotography, butnoneof my kidswere untilEddie." "Ihadallthe equipment downstairs,a darkroom, enlarger and printer and dryer and everything else." "This is the block we lived on." "See,allthehouses werethesame?" "Thisisduringthe snow." "ThisisRoberthere withtwoof hisfriends." "You know, we had to be home a certain time for dinner, and you had to sit at the table until you finished your dinner." "Harry:" "Robertwasthisregularkid." "Onethingwas,his endurance ona pogostick." "Hewashavingcompetitions withpeople." "He would go all the way around the block on a pogo stick." "Robert was the pogo stick champ of 259th Street, of the neighborhood." "Hejustcouldgoonforever, andhewassoproudofthat." "You know, there's something about black and white pictures that are so much better becausetheylast." "I took this of Robert in front of our house, right?" "The rest of them, all these, he took of me, and,I believe,is probably thefirstpictureshetook ." "(organ music playing)" "Announcer:" ""SenseandNonsense!"" "Nancy:" "Therewasthistelevision programintheearly'50s ." "Someone would give them something to taste with their blindfolds on and you would have to guess what it is." "That's how we play the game, identifying items by means of our five senses." "Well, we Mapplethorpe kids made our own" ""Sense and Nonsense" game." "Robert, little devil that he was, went to one of the many ashtrays around the house, which were always full, and put ashes in my brother's mouth, and they were fuming." "That's the kind of stuff he did, that kind of needling stuff." "So he was a devilish guy. (laughs)" "¶ ¶" "Wenevermissed MassonSunday." "Wealwayswenttochurch." "And I still do." "(woman singing opera)" "George Stack:" "Ifirstmet RobertMapplethorpe whenI wasassignedto OurLadyof theSnowsParish inFloralPark." "Theywereactive intheparish,you know, soI gotto know thewholefamily." "So Robert just kind of took to me, and I, you know, took to him." "And... he used to paint me pictures." "He drew me a couple of paintings of the Blessed Mother, the Virgin Mary, and I thought to myself, "He's been too influenced by Picasso."" "You know?" "(laughs)" "Butanyway, Ihaveto saythat,first, he was the only person I knew who could sit on a couch and chew his toenails." "The other thing was, you'd look at Robert and I think the first thing you'd notice is his eyes." "They were huge, andasif he was alwayslooking, always penetrating, always... youknow, tryingtogetthrough." "Mapplethorpe:" "I come from this, you know, suburbanAmerica." "Itwasavery safeenvironment, anditwasagood place tocomefrom inthatit wasagood  placetoleave." "Stack:" "Heneverquite reallyfitin  with all these other teenage boys, you know?" "Therewassomething veryfragileaboutRobert." "(Mapplethorpe's voice)" "Nancy:" "Robertwasmom'sfavorite." "Idon'tknowwhy though." "Ican'tputmyfinger onspecificthings, but I always say, "Oh, Robert was her favorite."" "Mapplethorpe:" "Somehowthatjust wasn'tenoughforme." "Robert was smart." "Everything came easy to him." "I worked like a dog for my marks, but he graduated at 16." "Mapplethorpe:" "Assoonas Icould, I started art school training, andI movedto Brooklyn." "Nancy:" "My dad was basically against it." "My father thought, you can do it as a hobby, but what are you ever gonna do with art?" "Man:" "Did you know that photography andhomosexualityshare somethingincommon?" "Growing respect for photography in the art world occurred simultaneously with the growing visibility of the gay rights movement." "Each suffered a gauntlet of prejudice during their coming of age." "JustasMapplethorpe wasstartingout, tobeopenlygay was still verymuchaculturaltaboo." "Andphotographywas considerednotmuchmore thana utilitarianmedium, an applied art, a bastard of the arts." "Woman:" "Hewasveryyoung whenhestartedPratt." "Hejustlookedlike alittleboyand people madefunof him." "Atthattimehis name wasBobMapplethorpe, and to further diminish him, they called him "Maypo,"" "because that was a children's cereal back in those days." "¶I wantmy Maypo, Iwantmy Maypo¶" "He was not macho." "Child:" "Itmakesyoustrong." "(Mapplethorpe's voice)" "He told me he would take his father's negatives to class and present them as his own work." "He was a fuckup." "(laughs)" "Female curator:" "SoI wasinterestedin hisexperienceat Pratt and how he found himself as an artist there." "Is that a self-portrait?" "Yes." "This one's actually ink, so I'm imagining he, like, rolled an oil-based ink onto his face." "Mm-hmm." "Yeah." "Yeah." "Which is kind of hard to comprehend." "The psychedelia of it too." "He was really into acid at the time." "Man:" "Webothhad asimilarbackground." "Right off the bat, I think we kind of hit it off." "He started taking drugs and smoked marijuana." "LSD." "We both were living on candy bars and cigarettes, basically, andhewasgettingreally skinnyandwe wereboth reallypale-looking..." "Butwesmoked,and so heputLSDinthecigarette." "Icompletelylostmymemory." "Andso..." "I, uh ..." "I don't know, I'm losing track now." "I'm kind of like, having a..." "I'mgoingbackthere toomuch,Iguess." "Mapplethorpe:" "WhenI wasin artschool, I'd stay up all night, stoned, tryingtothink whathasn'tbeendone, andI wasobsessedwith tryingtocomeupwith  anewapproachtoart andtobe uniquesomehow." "Bob and I realized you have to get a little name recognition and sometimes the weird thing works-- can work well for you." "So, somewhere along the way there, he had purchased this little monkey and he named it Scratch, and I did some really nice drawings of Scratch." "The monkey had some bad habits." "The monkey masturbated a lot, and the monkey threw crap at you sometimes." "He would walk around with the monkey on his shoulder and he was wearing a black cape." "Robert and I graduated Pratt in '67, the Summer of Love and blah, blah, blah." "And here is Robert standing all by himself in a corner, hanging, you know, hiding his face." "He's extremely mysterious." "And that's who he was." "McCue:" "Thefinalproject forbothof us  wastomakeamusical instrumentoutof abone." "ThenI remember, Igotacallfrom Bob and he was all kind of weepy and he said," ""I don't know what to do." "Scratch has died."" "Itwasmaybe twoo 'clockinthemorning." "Hecamein  andhewasreallyshook." "He said, "I boiled Scratch's head," ""and I've got my bone," ""but, you know, it was terrible." ""It smelled terrible." "I hated doing it, I had to cut his head off."" "Soheacedthe project." "Yeah." "Mapplethorpe:" "There was a lot of negativity, evenatPratt, towardwhatIdid ." "Youknow,peoplewouldsay," ""Thatisn'tart,thatisn't thewayyoumakeart, "" "andI justdidit thewayIwantedtodo it ." "Brunnick:" "Robert set himself apart from his classmates." "Woman:" "It's a beast and this is his backside." "It's a pose that he uses himself later on in self-portraits." "Hmm." "If you compare it to "Bullwhip," that backward pose, he already has it in his mind." "The last time I saw Bob, he had no clothes on." "He was afraid." "He had all the furniture stacked up against the door, and he was really beside himself and he said," ""I'm afraid." "I'm afraid." "Someone's coming." "Someone's coming." "Could you give me $20?"" "¶ ¶" "Patti Smith:" "ImetRobertaccidentally andhewasjustaboy ." "Imean,we wereboth20." "Hewas..." "He was akidgoingtoPratt, andwefellinlove  andhewasmyboyfriend." "Mapplethorpe:" "It was thefirsttimeIhadever beeninlovewithanybody, sothefactthatitwas--  itwassomebodyasunique asPatti," "Imean,shewas--shewas amagicalkindofperson." "Solike,youknow, andshewas-- she was supportive of what I was doing, or my magic, andI wassupportive ofhermagic." "Neitheroneof us  wereeverjealous, soitwaslike, youknow,it waslike astorybookrelationship." "Smith:" "Hehelpedme to build confidenceinmy work andtothink ofmyselfas artist, tohaveaconcept ofoneselfas an artist." "Thatwasalways reallyimportantto Robert, notasan apprentice, notasastudent, butasan artist." "Ziff:" "Ilovedphotographing myfriends, and Robert called me and said, "Can you do some naked pictures of Patti and me?" "I want to make a little film called 'Garden of Earthly Delights.'"" "Sothenwe setuplights onthebackofa chair, andI justtookthe pictures thatheaskedfor ." "RobertandPattiwere sobeautifulin such aninterestingway and in an unconventional way, I think." "Heexudedthiskindof androgynoussexuality, andsodidPatti." "Pattiwasdrawing allthetime, andRobertwasdrawingall thetimeandmakingthings." "Youknow,it wasmessy." "There was stuff hanging around, tacked up on the walls." "It looked like a scene from a Godard movie." "Smith:" "Wesatforhoursandhours , nightafternight,drawing and, you know, drawing from each other as well as drawing." "I'm a thief and I dig it." "A good thief never hesitates." "A good thief steals clean." "And I'm stealing now." "And I'm stealing now." "And I'm stealing now." "¶ ¶" "Reporter:" "TheChelseahasbeenhome  formorethanacentury toa colonyof artists whohavealsocelebratedit inbooks, poems,plays, dance,andpainting." "Mapplethorpe:" "Ikepton sayingtoPatti..." "Woman:" "Ilovedthem." "Wewerelikeafamily." "Hekepttellingme Iwaslikeasister." "Patti was working like crazy to let us live." "I mean, she was very generous, and she wasn't jealous of me at all, which is wonderful." "Shetrustedme  withRobert,totally." "Ineverwasinlove with him orhadanysexual feelingsforhim, butwewereveryclose." "Wewouldsit inmytotallywhite, emptyroomat theChelsea, whichsupposedlyhad hadOscarWildestayinit , andhadhadJacksonPollock stayinit ." "AndI hadWarhol'sclouds floating,theheliumclouds." "That's all I had in the room, and a mattress." "Welivedon thefloor anditwascleanenough toeatoffofthem ." "That'sexactlywhatwedid." "It was a 25-hour art show all the time, or movie set or whatever you would wanna call the life." "It was just the life being recorded." "Reporter:" "Ina stark, sun-drenchedstudio, livesfilmmaker SandraDaley." "Daley:" "Icalledhimup, Isaid ," ""Couldyoubringover someofthethings" ""and put them up on the walls?" "Because there's nothing here, you know, it's all white."" "Andhecameover withthestuff, andI looked,Ithought, "God,leatherpants witha cockstickingout ."" "Ithought,"Whynot ?" Itlookedfabulous." "Mapplethorpe:" "Iwasworking witharticlesof clothing." "Theywerekindof likefetishsculpture." "Youknow,if Ihad ajacket thatI woreallthe time, I'dputit in apiece and,youknow." "Soitwaslikeassemblage." "What's made you live in the Chelsea for the past seven years?" "Um, my friends, I guess, live here, and my teachers." "It's my home." "Daley:" "Robertdidn'tsaymuch." "(laughs)" "He didn't talk at all, did he, in that clip?" "Man:" "Robertcouldsitinsilence alotmorecomfortably thanI could." "I'm Edward Mapplethorpe." "Robert Mapplethorpe's brother." "(laughs)" "Iwasthreeyearsofage whenheleftthe house." "Irememberjustwaiting anxiouslyonmy stoop andknowingRobert andPattiwerecoming." "And then I'd be like, "Wow." Like, "Wow, look at these guys."" "I mean, they didn't look like anybody else." "Theydidn'ttalk likeanybodyelse." "Iwouldsay,creature." "Theywerelikecreatures." "Just the way he dressed, the way he carried himself." "The way his hair was, the way, uh..." "It was just..." "It encompassed him." "The art, the artist encompassed him." "There was no separation." "(Mapplethorpe's voice)" "Wow." "Daley:" "Iseethemasexquisite." "Mostpornlooksamateurish andlowerclass." "Justmakeit looklike," "IthinkIsaid aLouisQuinzechair, so that it just takes your breath away." "It doesn't matter what the subject matter is." "It's like a love story..." "to porn, maybe." "Mapplethorpe:" "Therewasafeeling Icouldget throughlooking atpornographicimagery, andI thoughtif Icould somehowretainthatfeeling, youknow, it was like, maybe it was the forbidden because I was young, you know." "ThatifIcouldget thatacrossandmake anartstatement, makeitdo it in away  thatjustkindof, like, reacheda certain kindofperfection thatI wouldbe doing somethingthatwas uniquelymyown." "Female curator:" "Oh,andthatone  evenincludesacamera." "Right." "And that-- He highlighted it." "And this was before he was even making photographs." "I think." "But this is when he started thinking, "It may be cheaper for me..."" "Yeah." "Yeah." "...to take photographs than buy all this porn." "Announcer:" "Samegreatfilm..." "Mapplethorpe:" "Iwantedrawmaterial that originated with myself." "IfeltthatIwasstealing themfromotherpeople, and so that's how I started with the Polaroids." "You know, it was not because I wanted to be a photographer." "¶ ¶" "Smith:" "WehadaPolaroidcamera andPolaroidfilm wasreallyexpensive, somyfocus wasalwaysthatRobert gotwhathe neededfirst." "Andwehad solittlemoneyfor film." "Weconcentratedon  gettinghimthefilm." "Mapplethorpe:" "Itwasallthere fromthestart." "AndwhenIfirststarted takingPolaroids," "I was working with photographs that dealt with sexuality, portraits,flowers, andstilllives because I used the still lives to experiment with lighting." "These are the first times that Robert took emulsion." "He washed it off of the Polaroid till it floated above the base and stretched them out." "That'sme,uglyasever ." "Here's Patti." "Andthat'sDavidCroland." "Croland:" "I'mreallynot amodelanymore." "I'mjusta..." "youknow,an object." "If you want an explanation of why I'm wearing this robe, it's for Robert, and Robert liked robes, and he liked black silk." "And I thought twice about it, and then I thought," ""You're not gonna think three times."" "Patti is the first girl he photographed for Polaroid and I was the first boy." "(pops lips)" "I met Robert in 1970 on Memorial Day, on a steamy hot day." "As soon as he got his camera, the film was loaded and my clothes were off." "Starting with a robe and then the robe was, like, here, et cetera, et cetera." "Hephotographedme  alotin that." "Andinthosedays, Ijustthought,"Whocares?" "Polaroidfilm?"" "I was used to being photographed by the big format, you know, by..." "Should we drop some names?" "Someone said, "Stop dropping names."" "I said, "I can't help it if everyone I know is fantastic."" "SoI thought thesePolaroidswerelike, "Whatthehellare these?"" "Isawveryquicklythat  hewasn'tjuststackingup abunchof Polaroids." "He was making stuff out of them." "Hewasincorporatingthem intoa newtypeofart,  which no one was doing." "No one." "Uh-uh." "And then someone called Patti to say they are boyfriends." "So that was..." "We were busted." "Pattiknewthat IwashelpingRobert, sotherewasnoanimosity, notatall." "At least, I don't think so." "When you're young, you don't have much of a conscience." "I mean, when you're young, I don't even know if you think." "I don't even think it's a good idea to think, to this day." "It's just better to do stuff." "Daley:" "Ihadthis smallamountof money." "Icouldmakeamovie." "I said, "Robert, you can pick out anything you want to do."" "Mapplethorpe:" "Ijustthoughtit wouldbeinterestingtohave  aringthroughyourtit becauseI maybeseenit ina movieor something, butitwasn'tsomething anybodyhadat thatmoment." "Andallof asudden, therewasawholesituation whereI was... togetmy nipplepierced." "I had done a number of films for Andy Warhol, so I was used-- and as a model I was used to having the camera trained on me." "Yes." "ButI hadno idea wherethatfilmwas going." "Wherethatfilmwentwas totheMuseumofModernArt, anditshowedthere ata bigscreening." "Man:" "MoMAwasverycrowded, and I was writing film reviews then for the "Village Voice,"" "and I remember Robert was standing against the wall and he had this sort of angelic kind of hair, and I guess I had a crush on him and whatever." "Right way, in my mind, I saw him as an angel and a devil." "Daley:" "ThenPattihas thisbrilliantmonologue thatshedid asthesoundtrack." "Smith (in Jersey accent):" "Ireadthisbook, Robert had this book in his-- he had this book in his drawer called "Leather Boys,"" "and,like,Ipickeditup  theothernight becausehewentout ." "Oncehegothis  leatherpants,he wouldbe downonChristopherStreet." "Like,itwaslike myboyfriendor nothing." "Iguessthereason-- theonlyreason Idon'tlikeit isbecause,like, theygotsecrets." "Colacello:" ""Insharpcounterpoint to the delicacy of the visuals" ""istheharshand hilarious soundtrackbyPattiSmith," ""poet,Robert's ex-girlfriend..."" ""...who, it seems, dislikes homosexuals because," ""A, she feels left out, and B, they use their assholes."" "(chuckles)" "He called me after the review came out and said that he really liked it and could we, like, meet for a cup of coffee or something." "¶ ¶" "RobertandIwould, youknow,meetup, like, at4 :00intheafternoon, go into some deserted restaurant and sit-- youknow,justordercoffee, and he only had a Polaroid then." "He didn't even have a camera." "But he was already, you know, planning on his first exhibition, and who he was going to invite and who he hoped would come." "Brunnick:" "This is Robert Mapplethorpe's announcement for his first solo exhibition." "The envelope is embossed by Tiffany and Company." "It was a show of Polaroids." "He encased his announcement in the "don't touch here" safety cover from the Polaroid film pack." "Terpak:" "Mapplethorpe says in several interviews," ""An exhibition doesn't begin when you go to the opening." "It begins when you get the invitation."" "Brunnick:" "It's a small dot sticker... that's really not opaque." "(laughing)" "Woman:" "Butwhatdo you wanttheviewertofeel  whentheyopen thatinvitation?" "Mapplethorpe:" "Iwantthemtorememberit, that'sall." "Woman:" "You'rethinkingof ,like, standingout fromthishugemass" "Mapplethorpe:" "Whycan'tit be in terms ofone'swholelifestyle?" "YouknowwhatI'm saying?" "Thewholepoint ofbeingan artist ormakingastatement istolearnaboutyourself." "Ithinkthat's themostimportantpart." "Thephotographs,Ithink, arelessimportant thanthelife thatoneis leading." "¶ ¶" "I would just run around and give people their food." "And it really was a comprehensive scene of downtown artists." "Nota closedworld, butitwas,you know,almost likea clubhousein away ." "Woman:" "IprobablysawRobert almost every night of my life." "Youknow,mostpeople thatI knewlived insuchhorribleplaces thatyoureallyonlyknew  wheretheylived ifyouhadsex withthem ." "Lots of times in Max's, he would come and sit with me, you know." "Itwasprobablythe time IenjoyedRobertthe most becausehewas anincrediblyamusinggossip." "He was extremely good-looking in a very particular way, you know." "Croland:" "Noonethatsaw Robert didnothaveacrush onhimimmediately." "No one." "Everyone." "Dogs liked him." "He looked kind of like, you know, a kind of ruined cupid." "And he was very reliant on his charm, you know." "I mean, in other words, he made great use of it, by which I mean, productive to Robert." "Croland:" "Robertwasnotahustler." "Robert didn't have to hustle." "PeoplehustledRobert... mainly out of his pants if they could." "Me too, by the way." "Robert didn't think anything was wrong with his ambition." "He didn't think of it as selling out." "He didn't think-- He just, you know, pursued it the way that people now do." "Man:" "Was Robert ambitious?" "There is no word for it." "For either of them." "That is an understatement." "For both of them." "Yeah." "Unbelievably." "Colacello:" "Iwentawayfor asummer, and when I got back, Robert was suddenly into SM." "Croland:" "Oneday,Ishowedup athisplace andhewaswearing leatherpants and it looked like a radio attached to his crotch." "I said, "What the hell is that?"" "He said, "Oh, it's a codpiece." "Isn't it great?"" "I said, "This is like the beginning of the end if you keep dressing like this."" "He started to trick me out in leather jackets and handcuffs." "He started to get not me, at all, and more him, andhewantedmetogo-- alwaystogo further." "And I thought, "That's not gonna happen." "I'm a model."" "Sam Wagstaff, I only knew that he was eccentric, handsome, and then when he took me to this loft later that day, rich." "Butrightbeforewewent  tohisloftonBond Street, hespiedalittle, tinypictureof Robert takeninaphotobooth witha littlesailorcap on." "Itlookedlike aJeanGenetdrawing." "Andhesaid,"Whoisthis? "" "Isaid,"That'smy soon-to-beex-boyfriend."" "So I called Robert up and I said, "Listen." ""Your ship's come in, it's in my harbor." ""You're gonna jump on this boat." "You'regonnalovehim , he'sgonnaloveyou , Icantell."" "Theyhadadatethat week , and they fell in love very quickly." "Sam was his protector, in every way." "You know, in the way that girls are protected by men." "It was a beautiful match." "Beautiful." "Really beautiful." "(Mapplethorpe's voice)" "I knew other people who had older guys who supported them and stuff like that, but Sam devoted himself." "The career Robert had," "I don't believe would've existed without Sam." "¶ ¶" "I met him when he moved next to us on Bond Street, so he was literally the boy next door, and we just instantly became friends." "Woman:" "It'sthislittlecobblestone streetinNewYork." "Robertlived at24BondStreet, andBriceandHelenMarden livedat26 BondStreet, and I lived at 42 Bond Street." "And the '70s in New York was very different than now." "NewYorkwasbankrupt, thingswerepretty corruptandviolent." "Therewasalot ofcrime, and, you know, Bond and Bowery was in the middle of, youknow,people sleepinginthedoorways andlyingon thestreets, butitwasthe art world." "Woman:" "Whenwefirstmovedhere , Iwashysterical." "I said, "We've just spent 40,000 bucks on this dump." ""And look at this area." "Look at this."" "I mean, it's, like, miles before you can get to a restaurant, a grocery store, you know, a light at night, the place is dark." "You had this beautiful, free-flowing stream, then there'd be all the soapsuds and garbage." "Junkies." "You see, that's the way Bond Street was." "Helen:" "And now, of course, the last time I tracked it, the penthouse in that building, I think, sold for 19 million." "I never thought we'd have any money." "Did you?" "No, it wasn't-- it wasn't the intention." "Imean,it wasn't asthoughit wasjust abandof innocents,you know." "Youcameto NewYork becauseyoufeltyou had  tobein NewYork, youknow,or elseyou would havejustgonetosome place thatwasnicetolive ." "Helen:" "He loved coming over and taking photographs of my bats." "You know, he wasn't Robert Mapplethorpe in the beginning." "You know, there was no thought that this was Robert Mapplethorpe, right?" "Right, Brice?" "Right, yeah." "Nothing, you know." "We were just all doing our work and chatting about it." "Colacello:" "We'dgoto thesefunny littleusedbookstores andthey'dhave,like, cardboardboxesfilled witholdpostcards and filled with old photo prints, and Robert would go through them and he'd find, you know," "aWestonor aSteichen orsomething." "Anditwaslikenooneknew whatitwas,and itwaslike $5or$10, and he would do that much more once he got together with Sam." "Mapplethorpe:" "See, what happenedisIstarted collectingphotography, soI studiedit through holdingthesepictures inmyhand, which is probably the best way to study photography." "Robert and I liked to lie on his bed and look at all the photographs Sam bought, and then he would tell me how much they were worth and we would laugh." "(laughing)" "Never having really looked at photographs as art, it really took Robert to bring me to photography." "(chattering)" "What are you up to?" "I've been working." "You should see some of Robert's works." "I'll be getting down after the sale." "Wagstaff:" "Therewassomething aboutthequality ofeventhePolaroids, whichstartledme ." "Somethingveryknife-sharp abouthiswork." "I think this is the most intimate thing we have in the archive between Sam and Robert." "Mm-hmm." "Robert doesn't write, so in a way, this linen album is his love letter to Sam." "You can see the dialogue that's going on between them about photography, and love and all that sexuality." "Yeah." "Wagstaff:" "Iusedto be  slightlyembarrassed bycertainphotographs thatRoberttook." "Hehelpedme getoverthat ." "(Mapplethorpe's voice)" "Robert, has always liked to play on the edge of pornography." "Mapplethorpe:" "Ialwayswas fascinatedwiththeidea oftakingaloaded subjectlikesexuality andsomehowbringingit toa levelthatithadn 't beentobefore." "Wagstaff:" "He'sabsolutely weddedtotruth andopensit up  infrontof hiscamera inanalmostsurgicalway." "Mapplethorpe:" "AndI remember somebodysaying," ""You know, you really shouldn't do that because it's gonna fuck up your career."" "AndI saidIthought itwasstupidfor him  toeventhinkthatway." "Iwasconvincedthat whatI wasdoingwas  therightthingtobedoing ." "¶ ¶" "Berlin:" "I met Robert in the early '70s onFireIsland, where his friend, Wagstaff, was renting a beautiful house and they invited me to stay." "The' 70swasasexualtime , andFireIsland, wewentforsex , for that beautiful availability of sexual encounters." "Imean,thedrugs werefloatingaround." "Itwasheaven." "Whenever we went out, I was recognized, right?" "And people stopped me and Robert liked that, and he was craving for fame and he enjoyed to be seen with me, but he was sort of feeling he should be the one who should be recognized." "And so I agreed, as a friend, to pose for him." "Thenwhen theweekendwasover," "Robert went back to New York City to work on his career." "Forme,theambition wastogetlaid." "Robert's ambition was to be a great photographer and that's why he is, because in order to be a Mapplethorpe, you had to work hard." "¶ ¶" "Man:" "Hewalkedinto myofficeat "Drummer,"" "amajorgaymagazine whereI wastheeditor, wearingleatherchaps anda leatherjacket, carryinga black leatherportfolio, and said, "Hello, I'm Robert Mapplethorpe, the pornographic photographer."" "Well, everybody that came to my desk was a pornographic photographer." "The problem in the '70s was everybody was having sex." "Photographers weren't shooting, painters weren't painting, writers weren't writing, but Robert was functioning." "Andweendedupinbed, thenwebecame bicoastallovers forthenextthreeyears." "Heknewthatheneeded tobewrittenabout, whichisoneofthereasons hecameto "Drummer."" "(Mapplethorpe's voice)" "Fritscher:" "Iwasjustone ofmany  writersthathe approached." "I mean, nearly all of his friends were writers." "He wanted to be a legend." "He told me he wanted to be a story told in beds at night around the world." "He had that kind of drive, and in a way, that's part of what makes geniuses, this self-centeredness and this ability to use people." "So I was someone who could help Robert." "Ihadthatpowerofbeing  editorof"Interview,"" "butI don'tthink weusedhimthatmuch  becauseI wasaware thatAndydidn'tlikehim." "He always just said, "Oh, he's so dirty-looking,"" "and, you know, "He's so creepy,"" "and Andy didn't like anybody who took Polaroids." "He thought he sort of was the only person who should be taking Polaroids." "But once Andy realized that Robert was with Sam Wagstaff, he started to like him." "So it was okay for me to then use him for "Interview,"" "andwesenthim toMustique." "We met Robert, my husband and I, on our way to Mustique, in a private little plane." "I haven't heard of him at all, butI wasfascinated byhismind, and on top of that, he was so good-looking." "He said, at one point, "I want to photograph you."" "And I said, "No way."" "And he said, "You know what?" ""You might regret it later," ""because I'm going to be a fantastic and great photographer, and you're not going to have a photograph taken by me."" "Colacello:" "Hewasabig hit  withthearistocracy, andhelovedMustique andthenMustiquelovedhim." "(Mapplethorpe's voice)" "He was living this double kind of life where he would be uptown at a fancy dinner..." "Mm-hmm." "...and then he would go to the Mine Shaft." "It looks well-worn." "(laughing)" "Can you imagine it?" "It's not just a souvenir." "Back pocket." "Well, that was one of the key places he went to find his models, The Mine Shaft." "¶ ¶" "Fritscher:" "What went on in the Mine Shaft forallthoseyears was two floors of the most outrageous sex had this side of Ancient Rome." "Allkindsof SM sex, scatological sex, fetish sex, from the sling, to the stocks, to the whipping post." "Peopletalkedof afamous bathtub,I mean,therewas  alwayssomebodyin it , anda ringof menaroundit, one,two,threelayersdeep , everybody jerking off, touching each other, moving." "It's just like a scrum around that bathtub." "And then the ones in the first line would piss all over whoever was in the bathtub." "Mapplethorpe:" "Theworkdealing withsexuality isverydirectlyrelated tomyownexperiences." "Itwasan areathat hadn'tbeenexplored incontemporaryart, andsoit wasanarea  thatinterestedme in terms ofmakingmy statement." "I was in the perfect situation in that most of the people in those photographs werefriendsof mine, andtheytrustedme." "AndI feltlike itwasan obligation torecordthosethings." "Robert and I first met..." "at The Mine Shaft." "He comes over and I'm like, "Oh, here it goes." ""We're gonna have an orgy or go down in the basement."" "Hewasverygood-looking, youknow,allinblack leather." "Itwaslike-- itwashot." "Hesaid, "Let'sgetoutofhere ,"" "and we went home, did a bit of coke, had some sex." "Very, very, vanilla sex." "He looked bored out of his mind." "And we were up in to two hours." "Just as I was nodding off, get up to do the first shoot." "Wedidit like6:30, 7:00inthemorning." "Hesaidhe likedthe light cominginthewindow." "Mapplethorpe:" "Itbecomes adocumentaryin asense, though,I 'dliketo seeit moreasan autobiography." "Youknow,it 'swhat I'minvolvedwith atanygivenmoment." "Leave that open." "I did this in a shop window." "¶ ¶" "This is Hockney, and this is a young film directress from LA." "I remember this one time we were at his studio and he said, "Do you wanna see my private stuff?"" "At that point, all of his stuff was very taboo." "None of this stuff was out in public when he was showing it to us." "It wasn't." "It wasn't." "Yeah." "Robert lived not too far east of my apartment, so I just walked there." "Iremember,as Igot  closerandcloser, that I felt increasingly more frightened." "Edward:" "Iwasabit anxious, andI lookup  and there's Robert up on the fire escape, smoking a cigarette, and I was like, "Okay, here we go."" "(elevator dings)" "Ahand-operatedelevator." "Fiveflights." "Very low lit." "Devil figures." "Mysterious." "It's creepy." "The first thing that struck me about him, he was not at all, you know, the kind of person that one might think might make these kind of photographs." "Yeah." "Well,this..." "Mapplethorpe:" "Thiswillpickup?" "Yeah,thiswill pickupbetter." "Okay." "Now..." "He said, "oh, is that a Sony?"" "And I said, "No, it's not," and he said," ""Oh, Panasonic." "Well, Sony is better."" "And, you know, teased me about having the wrong tape recorder." "Man:" "Inhisearlywork, Mapplethorpe signed with an X, so there's a kind of double entendre here." "Each portfolio, there's 13 gelatin silver prints mounted on black board and signed in graphite." "Mapplethorpe:" "Sexis,forme,  probablythemost importantthingin life." "Youknow,it 'stheone area thatoffersabit ofmagic, abitof something wedon'tknowabout." "Just seeing how his little brother reacted, hejust--he dugit." "He loved to get a jolt out of people and a reaction because it was power." "They were powerful." "Mapplethorpe:" "Ithinksexuality, likeI portrayit , isverymuchtoday, butpeople,youknow, itwouldtakeafewyears  beforepeoplerealizethat." "Squiers:" "And you don't think that you're just existing in a specialized kind of subculture?" "NewYorkis specialized." "butwhathappens inNewYorkisindicative ofAmericafinally." "If I was gonna pick an image that I thought was humorous," "I would pick the man in the rubber suit with a hose coming out of his mouth." "(Mapplethorpe's voice)" "That's really disgusting." "(laughing)" "(both laughing)" "I had grown up with abstract art, and conceptualism, and, you know, nude men in rubber suits were not part of my art education." "So it was hard to know how to talk about them." "Mapplethorpe:" "Yeah,I wasalways amazedthatit shocked." "Imean,becauseonce Ihadaphotograph andI hadtakenit,  itdidn't--it wasn't shockingtome anymore." "I'dbeenthrough theexperience." "Edward:" "Justwatchingme ." "EventhoughIwas perhaps beingtestedthatday ," "I wasn't going to fail." "And then I was, like, "You know, this is cool." "This is cool."" "Mapplethorpe:" "Maybethey'rethebest orthemostimportant picturesI 'vetaken." "Whenoneseessomething you'veneverseenbefore, it'sratherimportant." "Imean,still,Ican showthoseto people andtheywillhavenever seenthatimagebefore." "Soitopenssomethingup, andI think that'swhatartisabout, isopeningsomethingup." "A couple of times, he's like, "So what do you think Dad would say about that one?"" "There are two that particularly, you know, took my breath away." "One was the pinky inserted into a penis." "That was like, "Oh, my God."" "And the other one was the fist." "Okay, Robert. (chuckling)" "I guess you've definitely found your voice." "Mapplethorpe:" "Iwantedto do agreat fistfuckingphotograph, soI didthatpicture, andthenhe said, "Now,it'syourturn."" "Sohesortofpinnedme againstthewall andsays,"Listen..."" "Anyway,onceIhad  thepicturetaken," "Ithoughtit was areallygoodpictureofme ." "Squiers:" "Butmostpeoplewouldsay that that image was horrible." "Image of yourself." "Butoncethey" "(chuckling)" "It'sa goodone." "(laughing)" "Robert, he said "I can't have you go home without giving Mom and Dad something."" "So he just went... and signed it, "For Mom and Dad."" "It was certainly better than anything else they he had up on the wall." "Sorry." "(chuckling)" "Itwas an" EasterLilies"print." "Man:" "Areyouproud ofyourson?" "Harry:" "For the artwork he did, yes." "But for some of the photographs that he took," "I just could not accept them either." "He's done a beautiful job on flowers." "There was tension." "There was no doubt about it." "One time in particular being very, very uncomfortable because my father wouldn't look at Robert." "My father was an electrical engineer." "He wore one of those penholders." "Robert would make his attempts." "He came with a Polaroid camera one time and gave the camera to my father to-- he did a Polaroid of Robert." "After he left, my father making mention of how Robert shook people's hands." "It wasn't a manly handshake." "It was a soft-set handshake." "Harry:" "Letmesaythis, thatI thoughthe was, forquitealengthoftime,  butI wouldnevereven mentionitto my wife." "Becauseasfaras mywifeis concerned, hewasherfavorite." "Nancy:" "HeandPattitoldmyparents theyweremarried." "Iremembersending herbirthdaycards." "Patti, whatever, Mrs. Robert Mapplethorpe." "You know?" "I think my father always had suspicions though." "He said, "There's no pictures, there's no, you know, there's no certificate."" "Man:" "Didyouresent thefactthathewasgay?" "Harry:" "I did, yes." "I guess I did, yeah." "Heneverspoke to me about it." "Because I guess he knew I would never accept it." "Admitting that he was gay or telling me that he's gay, that wouldn't have helped matters at all." "Because I probably would've had more resentment to that fact if he had told me." "So he was really not part of the family, you know, and it's sad." "It's sad." "I so wish," "I could talk to him now about it all, you know?" "But Robert did" " Robert always wanted to be famous and he became famous." "(Ziff reading) "DearLloyd,Ifinallyhave  agalleryin NewYork." ""It'srunby awoman namedHollySolomon," ""Youprobablyhave neverheardof it , butitdoesn'tseemtobe  abadplacetobe forthemoment."" "I said, "Before I show your work," "I would like you to do my portrait."" "And when he took my portrait," "Iwasconvinced thathewasanartist, convinced that he could manipulate people extremely well." "And I use the word manipulate." "AndsoIsaid "Okay,let'sdo ashow."" ""Sam Wagstaff was a great photography collector." Holly Solomon said," ""I wouldn't have touched Robert without Sam." ""And there were others like me who felt the same way."" "Lebowitz:" "Hehadtwoshowsinoneday." "OnewastheSMpictures, andthenonewhere thepictures,for,you know, theuptowntrade." "And then there was a dinner that Sam gave, a black-tie dinner at One Fifth Avenue." "Itwasverycarefully thoughtout." "It waslike anadcampaign, and it worked." "Mapplethorpe:" "Sometimes, I think it's better forthepublictobeable toseparatethings becausewhenyoumix them allup,thesex thing overpowersit, and what happens is they just pick the sex pictures out and that becomes the show." "Woman:" "What will you say to those people who accuse you of having a dirty mind?" "Well, I don't know what-- I don't know what that means exactly." "I mean, I think everybody is, in one way or another, involved in sexuality." "So, if you believe that sex is dirty, everybody has a dirty mind, I suppose." "But I never consider sex being dirty." "Squiers:" "Theimagethat particularlyrivetedme , wasMarkStevens (Mr.101/ 2), with his penis and balls laid out on the pedestal as if they were a work of art, which, in his case, they were." "So..." "Artistic photography is controlled by very civilized people in New York City." "And in essence, he was glamorizing the penis, which is a very uncivilized thing to do." "We sold one, only." "So,I bought thewholeshowfromRobert figuring "Okay, stuck is stuck."" "(Mapplethorpe's voice)" "Solomon:" "Hesaid, "Iwantto go uptown,"" "and he brought me a present." "The present was a self-portrait with the whip up his... tush." "Andmyhusband, hewasquiteinsulted, andhesaid,"I'mgonna ripitup ,"andIsaid , "No,you'renot." "Someday,I 'mgonna gethandsomelypaid forthatphotograph."" "Is that making a statement about myself?" "You know, it's one aspect of everybody, I suppose, you know, sort of the demon within." "There'sa senseof humor inwhatI'mdoing, whichI hope peoplepickup on , andsometimestheydo,  andI 'malwayspleased whenpeopleseethat." "I don't think he could've produced the work he produced if he hadn't been raised Catholic." "Mapplethorpe:" "Ithinktheway Iarrange thingsisveryCatholic, eventhoughIwas  nevera religiousperson." "I think it's rather important as an influence on my life." "The imagery was what was important to him, notthedogma." "There's something very ritualistic about sadomasochism." "It's, kind of, the Black Mass basically, right?" "Fritscher:" "HisSMworkisbased ontheCatholicmartyrology." "Asgrade-schoolchildren, weheartales of St. Agatha tied to a stake and her tits torn off with a red hot pincher." "Ifyou'realittlekid andhearthat,and twisted ina certainway, all of a sudden, you're excited and not horrified." "(clears throat)" "I'm really not, you know, into sadomasochism, you know?" "I don't encourage it with other people either." "But I really felt as though there was a struggle in Robert betweencrucifixes anddevilimages." "Good, evil, there is a great conflict there." "He liked the fact that I had been in the seminary for many years and was an ordained exorcist in the Catholic Church." "AndbecauseIwas trained tobeapriest,hewasvery confessionaltome ." ""DearJack,it 'smidnight." ""MDA ingested, only the first signs now visible." ""I'vebeenoutnearly everynight." "Tonightis nodifferent." ""The Mine Shaft is beckoning." ""Come, go, come, go, come with me." ""Oh, I almost forgot to tell you," ""I let some creep stick his hand up my ass." ""I've been fisted, even came." ""But I think I prefer being the giver." ""Infact,Ican 'thelpbut givepreferentialtreatment tothefeedingprocess." ""Iwantto see thedevilin us all." ""That'smyrealturn-on." "Love,Robert."" "I have to say that because nobody will say it." "I have to say it and it's not to put him down, but it's simply to reveal." "Robert-- (car engine rumbling)" "Satantohimwas not  thisevilmonster." "Satanwas,like, aconvivialplaymate, havinga jollygoodtime seducingthemaidens." "To me, it was a bridge too far." "(rumbling continues) Go away." "Can we close the doors?" "I'm getting awfully cold in here." "Yeah." "There's a draft" " Marc?" "Man:" "SanFrancisco,1978." "Robertwashavingashow , itwasasex show." "It was unusual." "I mean, you didn't see sex as art in galleries." "And then someone said, "Well, you know," ""he did the album cover for 'Horses.'"" "And it was the only black and white album cover." "Andtosee anandrogynous-lookingwoman with a jacket over her shoulder," "I just love, love, love that photograph." "Robertwasholdingcourt andhesaid," ""Well,let'shave dinnerthefollowingnight,"" "and that's how I met him." "And then I guess you wanna know what happened the following night, right?" "Heremindedme of thesatyr." "Hereallylookedlike amythologicalcreature, like half goat, half man." "Tobein Robert'sworld, you either had to be rich, famous, or sex." "I wasn't rich, I wasn't famous, so, it left that." "Ashecertainly wasn'tmonogamous, hecouldhavemultiple relationshipsonaweekend." "But with me, there was no SM." "Itwasaboutbeingclose and spooning and, you know, just the normal, the normal kind of intimate stuff thathedidn'thave frompickingup strangers." "Hesaid, "Iwantto do anude."" "So I said, "Why don't we do something, like, you know, this--"" "those pictures of the hunt, you know, whereyouhave, like,theharvest withthedeadrabbit andthefruitand everything allandabout." "So, I thought it was gonna be more like that, and then it turned up with-- just this dead rabbit." "AndI said,"WhatamI gonna dowiththis?" "Likeamink stoleorsomething."" "I'msurprisedyoueven knowthatpicture, becauseyou'llneversee  apictureof me in anybook byMapplethorpe." "Youreallywon't." "The fact that I started getting a reputation aside from just being "Robert's cute with," from San Francisco, howdareIbecome aphotographerthatwas  wellknown?" "Thisinfuriatedhim." "He couldn't deal with that." "Fritscher:" ""I'vehadahouseguest hereformuchtoo long," ""a very cute boy that I met in San Francisco." ""He'ssweet,intelligent, hasa nicecock," ""butthatain'tenough." "I wish he'd find an apartment as he's cramping my style."" "That was probably me." "I mean-- but I don't-- never heard that." "I mean, I don't know who else he met in San Francisco." "That was-- that's the first time I'm hearing that." "Hmm." "Well, it finally isn't enough, is it?" "I mean, what he wanted." "It'sneverenough." "Everythingwasameans toanendtohiscareer." "Everything." "Oh, my God." "You guys are old school." "I love that." "Woman:" "The Bond Street loft never changed." "In the front, it was sort of no man's land, and that was where he used to photograph a lot." "Then you move back and it's this little sitting area which-- where he would always hold court, but across from that was the bedroom." "Painted black." "Black." "Hot gloss." "With the handcuff holds above the bed." "I never went in there." "Oh, I did." "(laughing)" "First thing he said to me is, "All you have to know is where the darkroom is."" "You know?" "Okay, dude, whatever, you know." "Do your thing, I'll do mine." "And I remember the first image I printed, which was just a nasty, dirty picture." "It's a guy laying on his back, pulling on his nipples." "It's not a well-known picture, but it's a classic." "(laughing)" "And that was where we went to work every day." "That's where we went." "You know, "Off to work, here we go."" "Little waspy blondes going to the den iniquity." "Going to the fist-fucking file." "Wasn't it funny how soon we became anesthetized to all the sex pictures?" "To the word penis?" "Yeah, you really..." "'Cause it was just daily." "Baril:" "Therewouldalways befilmin themorning fromthenightbefore, sothefirstthingI'ddo isprocessfilm." "He'd come in in his robe," ""How are the films, Tom?"" "Whenhesawthe image fortheveryfirsttime , he'd tease me, "What do you think of that cock, Tom?"" "I'm like, "Get the fuck out of here." You know?" "I was just out of school, looking for work, and Robert was, like, "I don't know how I really feel about this," ""but I am looking for an assistant."" "And I started the next day." "Baril:" "Becausehedidn'thave arealphotobackground, hewasalwaysinsecure about" Technicallydid Igetthepicture?"" "Youknow,"Diditcome out?" "Diditcomeout ?"" "If it had light on it, and he could get an exposure, he was happy, 'cause,youknow, theywereallfuckedup inthemiddleofthenight ." "Mapplethorpe:" "I'mnotatechnician." "Ineverstudiedphotography." "Idon'tparticularly caretoknowit." "Iknowwhatafine printis." "Iwouldprobablyhaveless  thanhalfthenumber ofphotographs ifI didmy own developingandprinting." "But he always had coke." "I was the only guy he gave coke to 'cause he wanted me to keep going." "(laughs)" "He wasn't generous, but, you know," ""If I gave Tom a little coke, he'll print faster," you know." ""Here, Tom." "Go in the darkroom," he'd give me a bump." "You know, my father said to me," ""How can Robert call himself a photographer if he doesn't even know how to process a roll of film?"" "ButRoberthadavision, healwayshadacertain wayofseeingthings, sohowyougot theredidn 't reallyconcernhimsomuch ." "Baril:" "Hewantedeverything tojustbe flawless." "You know, "Let's make this guy's arm meet this corner,"" "and, you know, "Let's straighten it out a little bit."" "But it's a guy pissing in another guy's mouth." "What's the fucking difference?" "He wanted things as, you know, unrealistically perfect andsmoothandtakeall theflawsoutoftheskin." "Somedayswe 'dsit andjustretouchfor aday untilalltheblemishes weregone." "Mapplethorpe:" "Italkedto Patti aboutdoingabook andhavingher transformherself intoallthesedifferent charactersthatwouldhave beenPatti." "Imean,shewouldbe thischaracteroneday  andthatcharacteranother." "AndI think,youknow, shehadacertainrange thatcould'veprobably carrieda wholebook, butI never dida bookwithher ." "WhenI metLisa,Irealized thatshe,in fact,had this rangewithinher, a very different range, but it was still worthy of a book." "Ithoughtshewas unique." "Shehadthisformthat Ihad  neverseenbefore." "Itwaslike acompletenewanimal." "Martineau:" "Shewasparticularly importanttoMapplethorpe becausehewas tryingtobalanceout  hissexpictures with pictures of women." "Mm-hmm." "It's so interesting to think about how the female body building idea then was really radical and, kind of, challenging." "That kind of physique to us doesn't seem so shocking." "Right." "She's such a prominent subject." "Very '80s, the make-up, the hair." "Oh, yeah." "The ruffle blouse." "Mm-hmm." "The shoulder pads." "Lyon:" "Itwasprototype fora newspecies." "Sort of an animal perfection, and I felt in him akindof maleversion ofthesamething." "Myambitionthat Idiscussedwithhim  wastoexplore therangeof possibilities ofwaysof viewingawoman." "Historicalways, contemporaryways, cliché ways, unheard of ways, tribalways, thehighfashiontype, thesexgoddesstype, thelingerietype, thebondagetype, thevirgintype, thebridaltype, thestatuetype." "¶ ¶" "Squiers:" "Whathadseemed verydaring whenhediditwith men lookedveryretrograde whenhediditwith awoman  who was dressing up in different hats and garments." "AndsoIwroteaboutthat andhewasfurious." "I think he called me and yelled at me." "I feel, like, it may have been a bad idea to write that review." "I mean, that is sculpture to me, you know, and that's, sort of, one of the points that I'm making in photography is being a sculptor without actually having to spend all the time," "sortof,modeling withyourhands." "Youknow,that'smuch tooarchaicforme." "It's like inventing sculpture myself with a camera." "Itreallyis likebronze." "I'd often say that photographing black men is like photographing bronzes." "(camera shutter clicks)" "I was the last white intimate person in his life." "After that, he was only sleeping with black people, photographing black people." "He became obsessed with black people." "Mapplethorpe:" "AllI knowis thatit's physicallyattractiveto me ." "Visually, it's also attractive andso,youknow,itbecame anobsessionwithmetaking thesepicturesof blacks." "People had accused him of exploiting these people." "And, um... he told me he photographed what he loved to do and the people he loved to be with, andtome , that'snotexploitation." "That'sjustlivingyourlife  andusingacamera todocumentit ." "Mapplethorpe:" "For the most part, when whites havephotographedblacks, theyhave,sortof,  shownthemfromacertain socialpointof view." "I'm photographing them as form in the same way that I'm reading the flowers oranythingelse thatI photograph." "I'mnotattemptingtomake  asocialstatement abouttheirplight." "Robert was looking for God in a black man, and he found him in Milton Moore andfellin lovewithhim." "Now, I think he fell in love, and this sounds ridiculous, with Milton's penis." "Robert was looking for the absolute perfect black penis." "And he had it," "I mean, the exact measurements down." "I mean, it had to be just so and he'd discuss it with others, and, you know, the ratio to this and that." "The thing the world is most afraid of is penis." "And Robert dared show penis, but he dared show black penis, and there's nothing more scary because behind all of sexual prejudice is the sex envy, this penis envy that drives people insane either with lust or with fear." "Morrisroe:" "Miltondidsaytohim asonecondition oftakingthepictures thathecouldnot show hisheadin theframe." "(Mapplethorpe's voice)" "Morrisroe:" ""PictureofMan inPolyesterSuit"" "wasreally oneofhismostfamous." "Miltonhadpickedup thatsuitin HongKong andwasveryproudofit , and Robert purposely lined up his thumb so that it would show off the cheap seams." "Man:" "I'dneverseenit, and then wewentto theframers andI sawit layingon theflooras it wasgonna beputintothe frame, andI said," ""Robert, this is a show that the whole world will see."" "He said to me, "Will anyone write about it?"" "That was his comment." "And they did." "Man:" ""Mainpicturehereis abigblackdude" ""seeninan expensivevested gabardinesuit" ""withhisflyopenandhis elephantcockstickingout ." ""This picture's ugly, degrading, obscene," "(chuckling) "typical of the artist's work," ""which appeal largely to drooling lascivious collectors" ""who buy them and return to their furnished rooms to jerk off."" "(laughing)" "We actually did sell that picture during the exhibition to a collector in New York for $2,500, and it was a reach." "It was a big price for a photograph, and especially by a living photographer." "Therewere20  worksintheshow andweplacedall ofthem  withverystrongcollectors, whichwasvery importantforRobert." "This was the first show that that had ever happened to him." "And it was a kind of lightning rod anditwasnotorious." "Auctioneer:" "Lot 144, Robert Mapplethorpe's "Man in Polyester Suit."" "And I'm gonna start the bidding here at $180,000." "It's possibly one of the top 10 most recognizable images in photographic history." "210, 220." "It's an iconic image." "Youknow,it 's,like, Andy's" Marilyn."" "360, 380... $390,000." "Marino:" "Noneofus realized thatphotography atits--thebeginning wasjustconsidered commercialreproduction, commercialreproduction." "Manycollectorswould neverdreamof collecting." "And I think Mapplethorpe is one of the artists responsible for photography being considered on an equal basis with sculpture and painting." "I never for a second doubted that photography was a very real art." "Andthere'sjustsomething abouthisphotographythat immediatelyattractedme ." "Iwasshocked byhisabsolutebrutal honestyabouteverything, from sexual organs to relationships between people." "Mapplethorpe:" "You know, the people that have influencedmethemost aretherelationships I'vehad,youknow, thelovers I'vehadin my life." "Andofcourse I'vephotographed everyoneof them." "The only time Robert ever cried was talking about how much he loved Milton." "Not Patti, Milton." "Milton." "(Mapplethorpe's voice)" "He had just did that show called "Black Males" at Robert Miller Gallery." "So I went to go see that show." "I said, "That's gonna be my boyfriend."" "Welivedtogetherfor  thebetterpartofa decade." "Werarelyfought,you know, because he was too self-absorbed to really care." "Itwasso easytobe aroundhim because he was so busy being Robert Mapplethorpe." "Whenwestartedseeing eachother,he started takingpictures,right?" "And I was, kind of, shy, so I didn't wanna take nude pictures." "And Robert goes, "Just don't look at your dick."" "He goes, "It's just a picture."" "Man:" "Thereisno picture ofKenMoody'sdick." "There just isn't, and I'm sorry." "(laughing)" "As soon as I stood in front of the seamless, it was magic." "Itwasabsolutemagic." "There'snoway youcandescribeit otherthanmakinglove." "And as soon as we stepped away from that backdrop, nothing." "Absolutely nothing." "We had nothing in common, We had nothing to say to each other." "There was a ghetto element to men that he had the strongest attraction to." "I had none of that." "He was quoted in an article as saying I was too "white" for him." "Too white." "(laughing)" "Mapplethorpe:" "Ibroughtthemtogether." "It was interesting 'cause they had never met and never had a conversation withsomebodyelse thattheyhadlostall theirhairas achild." "Anditwas interestingtowatchthem reactandrelate toeachother." "Sherman:" "Themoretimegoesby, thebiggerthat photographgets." "When it was in Times Square on the NASDAQ billboard, that was, like, "Wow." "Where's my mother?"" "I'vereadseveralthings ontheshotofKenandI." "It's like they tried to read all of this philosophy into it." "BlackKen,eyesclosed, meaningthesubconscious." "WhiteRobert,eyesopen, afraidoftheunconscious." "I'm, like, "What?"" "The black man was in the background because the black man's neck wasn't long enough to reach over the white man's shoulder." "We tried it and my neck wasn't long enough." "I think that's why he did every position." "Exactly." "Tofindout what worked best." "There was no philosophical anything to" "Robert was so not like that." "No." "Totally not." "Take your shirt off." "Itsoundssilly." "Iguess,youknow, usingtheword,magic." "And fold your arms." "Stay right there." "Lift your head up a little bit." "Iwasabletopick up themagicof themoment andworkwithit,  youknow,that'smyrush  indoingphotography." "Ken, hold that!" "Hold that!" "Tilt a little right and turn a little right." "Turn your head to the right, now bring your eyes back to me." "Look back here." "Lean right, turn right." "Put your head down, now bring your eyes up." "Click, click, click, click, click, eyes to me." "Click." "Chin up." "Walls:" "Turnthisway." "Turn your head this way." "Yeah, more." "More." "More." "And instead of looking to the side, look straight out." "OftenI 'mdealing withfractionsof inches." "Here, you can even-- Now turn." "Just" " Yeah, from the neck." "Stay there." "I'mlookingfor thatperfectposition wheretheheadsortof, somehowmakessensetome." "Actually, I should take it with all these things coming in at you." "A little" " Look this way towards-- yeah." "That's rather good, actually." "I'mgonnastartshowing aseriesof portraits." "I'll stop at any point, but I don't want to comment too much about the pictures 'causeI wannaget" "Iwant  myvisionto comeacross, thewayIsee things." "That'sWilliamBurroughs." "PhilipGlasson theleft, RobertWilsonon theright." "AndDonaldSutherland, oneofthebestsubjects I'veeverphotographed." "AnnieLeibovitz,oneof themostdifficultsubjects I'veeverphotographed." "(audience laughing)" "That'sDebbieHarry." "Harry:" "Isatforhim  acoupleof times, whichwasprettyscary formethefirsttime ." "Smilingwasn't histhing,youknow." "The way that he saw people was like he was seeing into them or something, or through them." "Mapplethorpe:" "Idon'tthink it'snecessaryto tellyou  whoisin eachphotograph becauseifthepictures aregood, thenthey'll transcendwhothey areandit doesn'tmatter." "He became known for the elegance of his portraits." "Andanyphotographerwho takes picturesofcelebrities ismakingasmart businessmove because those people and their friends have lots of money." "Andtheybuypictures." "Salvesen:" "Yeah." "Well, and his social life was apartof hisartisticlife ." "That'sright." "Youknow, it was all very interconnected." "Mapplethorpe:" "Ideally,youget thesubjectto apoint where they direct themselves." "You know, they say, "Well, this is really kind of what I want to be photographed in."" "I thought it was going to be a catastrophe, and I prepared for it." "So I did take a piece of mine." "Itwasagood collaboration,right?" "Becausehe'sfamous notforhisflowerpictures." "He's famous for his objectionable sexual representation." "Mapplethorpe:" "Youknowtakingpictures ofsexis no different thanphotographing aflowerreally." "Imean,it 'sthesamething." "It'sjustsubmitting towhatever'sgoingon and trying to get the best possible view of it." "And nobody else can photograph flowers the way I do." "It'sjusttheway Isee." "Even Robert said it, that the pictures started getting very, very, slick." "That was the word." "So slick, so perfect." "But perfection, that's a Mapplethorpe characteristic." "Perfection." "Anybodywhowas involvedinthatstudio willagreewithme that you just got sucked into Robert's world." "You wanted to." "It wasn't" " I mean, you just did," "Imean,it was aninterestingworld." "Itwasalot ofexcitement, itwasalot offun,  but I wanted to do something else." "Can'tjustbe  Robert'sassistant fortherestofmylife." "Sothentheinvitation getssentout." "Nice group of artists." "All alphabetical." "Andloandbehold, EdwardMapplethorpecomes beforeRobertMapplethorpe." "And he was... ruthless." "He was nasty." "And said," ""I'm not gonna have any kid brother" ""I've worked really hard to get where I've gotten," ""and if you think you're gonna come and ride on my coattails..."" "(Mapplethorpe's voice)" "And I was like, "Fuck, man," I was like..." ""Wow."" "And Robert asked him to change his name, which he struggled with, I think, for a while, but then he did." "He changed it to Maxey." "Right." "But..." "It was all about Robert." "It was all about Robert." "You know, they were brothers." "Can't imagine what all that was like." "You know, it was a futile attempt because..." ""Oh, this is Edward Maxey." "He's Robert Mapplethorpe's brother."" "I was, like, "Well, what good is this doing?" ""This is ridiculous."" "But yeah, it sucked." "That day sucked." "Just like the day that he got angry at me for deciding that I was gonna leave the studio." "Thisissomebody thattwoyearsearlier didn't know whether he wanted me in the studio with him." "Two years later, I guess, he learned to rely on me quite a bit." "And was angry, very angry." "¶ ¶" "Tom Brokaw:" "Thelifestyleof some malehomosexuals hastriggeredan epidemic ofa rareformofcancer." "He would go to the bar in the afternoon, pick up someone, have sex with them, then go back later that night, maybe and then pick up somebody else, and then towards the end of the night, like, a nightcap." "Woman:" "Lastweekend, MayorKochpredicted thatTheMineShaft wouldclose." "They are selling death." "Places where death can be distributed." "They're making love in the street on top of cars and everything." "This is men." "Grown men." "I mean, that's not normal." "Most of these people, they're not fit, they're not human beings." "That have emotional problems." "(Man's voice)" "(Mapplethorpe's voice)" "(Man's voice)" "(Mapplethorpe's voice)" "¶ ¶" "Walls:" "'CauseI wassleeping with him for all those years," "I thought that I was gonna die." "Icameback fromanappointment togetmy results." "Hewaslayinginthebed whenI walkedin , and then he looked at me and then he said," ""You got it, right?"" "And I said, "No, no, no, no." I said, "I'm negative."" "And I remember, he got really upset and he goes," ""Then why do I have it?" "Why do I have it?"" "And he started, like, pounding the bed." "AIDS at the time was pretty much a death sentence, right?" "And he, on the one hand was upset, but on the other hand, he was fascinated by the demand for his work." "Walls:" "Like,hismarkettookoff whenpeopleheard thathewasabouttodie." "Itreallytookoff ." "Baril:" "Wewereverybusy." "We didn't stop working, and he didn't stop shooting until he physically couldn't get out of bed." "He's like, "What am I shooting next?" ""Get me some flowers." "Let's do that."" "You know, and it-- the flowers got done, the statues got done, the commissioned portraits got done." "Mapplethorpe:" "OnedayI'll photographflowers, thenextday I'lldosomefashionwork , the next day I'll do some pornography, and the next day, I'll do a portrait." "You know, I don't really care." "Suzanne:" "I sort of thought I should be keeping a journal." ""I did watch him shoot today." ""It's so amazing to see how he musters the energy to do the pictures." ""It absolutely keeps him going." ""And the money." "Funny money."" "NatrelePlus." "Long-lasting Natreleprotection." "He was never interested in talking about his health." "All he wanted to talk about was sales and who was looking at his work, and when are we gonna have a million-dollar a month." "He was interested in making as much money as possible." "Andheresentedthe fact thathiscontemporaries', likeBriceMarden, works started selling for several hundred thousand dollars." "And Robert's works were selling for $1,100." "Mapplethorpe,hadasortof jealousorcompetitive relationshipwithWarhol." "Hewouldsaytomeweekly," ""If I die, will I have died with as much money as Andy Warhol had?"" "And I'd say, "No." "Not nearly, not nearly."" "I remember him saying to me once, how frustrated he was about being ill because he was getting all this money now, and he actually said," ""I won't be able to enjoy it."" "He was not very interested in leaving money to people." "So the foundation idea really began to appeal to him becausehismoney, hisassets,hisrealestate, hisartcollection would support his foundation." "So, it would automatically promote him." "Edward:" "Robertsentforme forhisbirthday, his40thbirthdayparty," "That's when I was like, "Whoa." "This is not good."" "Robert Mapplethorpe's way to interpret me was totally different than any other photographer." "He wanted my hair back, so that was unusual to me." "Everybody has always wanted me to do a hairdo." "Hewantedavery, verynaturalfeel." "Ilooklikeanangel onthatpicture." "So, how can I not be pleased?" "He was the first photographer to photograph me completely in profile." "It's never-- He was the only one." "Theprofilewasjustsomuch moresoul-baring." "Igotto sortofstudyhim." "He didn't seem happy." "Everything seemed precious, and I think there was no sense of wanting to waste time or be frivolous." "In German, you say-- there is this word, getrieben, which means as if something is chasing you constantly." "I used to go and visit him." "We both sense that he was dying, but we didn't talk about it." "And he had that very sad expression, because he didn't want to leave." "He wanted to stay, you know?" "And one day he said," ""I need to take a photograph of you" ""and you need this one because this is going to be the last one,"" "is what he say." "I say, "Don't be silly."" "And it was." "Edward:" "Itwasjustsortof businessasusualuntil thingsprogressed, and he was having a harder and harder time getting out of his seat and..." "And he had a horrible, horrible cough, which I guess was typical." "Six o'clock would roll around and then he'd sort of be like," ""Can you come keep me company?"" "It was this little boy." ""Don't leave." "Stay with me."" "Yeah, little baby voice." "Edward:" "Robertwasin hisbedroom, not feeling particularly well, and he's like, you know, he's like, "I'd like to do a picture" ""with my hand holding the skull cane."" "And I said to Brian, I said, "Listen, this has got to be a self-portrait."" "And it wasn't often that he'd want to take his own picture, but he had been trying." "I took the skull cane and I held it like this, and I said, "Do a Polaroid."" "(camera whirs)" "I brought it to Robert, he was like, "Wow." "That's good."" "His knee started to hurt, so we put a chair in for him to sit on." "That'stheclassic masterpiecepicture." "It's a tremendous photograph, oneofthegreatest self-portraitsofalltime." "Man:" "It's2 :38herein theWNBC." "Weather:cloudy,breezy, chanceofshowers andthunderstormsright throughtheevening." "Thelowtonightinthelow 60s,rightnow,74degrees." "Man:" "Therewassomething electricthatday." "Itwasn'tjustanopening." "It was a... a memorial with a living corpse." "Colacello:" "Yourheart justwentouttohim becauseherehe was havingthesuccess thathedreamedof from those days in coffee shops in the Village, and, you know, you could tell he was dying." "Not too much." "This is-- someone took this picture of me taking a picture of him." "Heknewwhat Iwasdoingthere." "I think he understood the whole thing." "He didn't like it, but he understood it." "I think that was his proudest day, I really do." "Helookedlike thekingsittingthere." "It had everything from flowers to fist-fucking." "And I had to go around the room with my mother in a wheelchair." "Wow, yeah." "When I saw the one with the whip," "I said, "Oh, my God."" "And I ran and go to my kids and" ""That's him?" "It was a self-portrait?"" "Edward:" "Helovedattention, eventhough ithadto do withthe fact thathewasadyingman, itdidn'tmatter." "Becker:" "Itwasonepicture." "Imeanit stunnedpeople." "We all sort of were under the impression it was gonna be this glorious article, when in fact, that was sad." "Yeah." "I'm sure he saw his own mortality..." "Yeah." "...very clearly at that moment." "His image out there, this handsome, vain, elegant creature, andpeoplereally wereshocked." "I mean, come on, it was like, he was alive." "Woman:" "WorkingwithRobert Mapplethorpehasbeen my most enlightening and rewarding curatorial experience." "I felt that Robert Mapplethorpe's work was so important." "So I went to New York and visited him at his studio." "We started to talk." "He was very easy to talk to." "I felt after five minutes that I had known him a long time." "Mapplethorpe:" "Haveyoueverseen theX ,Y ,Z portfolios?" "There'sanXportfolio whichissexpictures, there's13of them, andthenthere'sY whichisflowers, andtheZwhichisblacks." "He was particularly interested in showing the X, Y, Z series, which had not been shown before in its entirety." "Mapplethorpe:" "Itmaybe interesting tohaveawall whereyouhave arowof X, Y, andZ ononemass,sortof, inthreerowsofsomething." "Kardon:" "Wedevisedaway  ofdisplayingthem ina casethatwould besohighthatachild  couldnotseeintoit, butanadultcould lookdownuponit." "I remember showing my husband some of the pictures before the exhibition opened." "He said, "Janet, do you know what you're doing?"" "But I didn't listen to him." "Maybe I was crazy." "(lively chattering)" "Hi, Robert!" "Here we are." "You're with us." "You're with us and we're with you." "Ithinkyoucan tell whethera showis successful bythesoundinthegallery." "If people are talking a lot, you know, somehow the show just doesn't have it." "In the Mapplethorpe show, there was silence." "You could hear a pin drop." "Edward:" "Thisonetime,itwas aterriblenightfor Robert and he was almost hallucinating a bit and he ended up pulling out some of the IVs, so I had blood dripping out of his arm, and IVs," "and I had to-- he" " I know I had to clean him up." "He'd shat in the bed, and I'm like, "Oh, my God."" "That night, Robert looked at me teary-eyed, crying, and said, "Oh, my God." He's like, "I'm dying." ""I'm dying." And I had to say, "Yeah."" "What could you-- I couldn't" " I mean, "Yes."" "¶ ¶" "Robert gave a going-away party for himself, alavishcocktailparty athisloft." "Waiterswalking aroundwithsilvertrays with a little tiny Bellini and caviar and champagne." "Itwasveryelegant." "(Mapplethorpe's voice)" "Croland:" "AndRobertwassitting inthemiddleoftheroom." "I walked up to him and kneeled down at his feet andcame face-to-facewithhim." "He said, "You still look so beautiful."" "And I said, "Thank you."" "Isaid,"Whatdoyou wantmeto do ?"" "He said, "I want you to tell her everything." "Keepmealive."" "Suzanne:" ""March8th." "Well,thisis it ." ""Thelasttwodays havebeenhell." ""The funny part is not knowing how to say goodbye." ""Lettinggo." "Arewordsenough?"" "I was just like, "Come on, Robert."" "Just like have a conversation with me and just say, "You know what, I'm proud of you, and just keep it going, and just do good work."" "And... never got it." "Never got it." "(woman speaking)" "Mapplethorpe:" "Somedays,yes, andsomedays,no." "Youknow,on adailybasis," "I would say in any given day, I'm happy part of the time andnottherest,youknow." "IthinkI'maperfectionist andI thinkit 'shard tobehappy ifyoulikethings tobeperfect becausethings arenotperfect." "¶ ¶" "Helms:" "I don't know whether thetelevisioncameras canseeit or not." "I'mgonnabe fastenough withitthattheycan't." "ButI wantsenatorstocome  overhere,if theyhave anydoubt andlookat thepictures." "Protesters (chanting):" "Keepyourhandsoff !" "Helms:" "Idon'teven acknowledgethatit 'sart." "Protesters:" "Keepyourhandsoff !" "Getyourhandsoff !" "Helms:" "Idon'tevenacknowledge thatthefellowwho did it wasanartist." "Ithinkhe wasajerk ." "Protesters:" "Keepyourhandsoff !" "Getyourhandsoff !" "Keepyourhandsoff !" "Keepyourhandsoff !" "Keepyourhandsoff !" "Keepyourhandsoff !" "Woman:" "This line is for two o'clock only." "You need a pass to get in to see the exhibition." "Man:" "Ithappened." "Whatyou'rewatchingnow  istheCincinnatiPoliceas theymadetheirmovetoday againstTheContemporary ArtsCenter." "Woman:" "Theytemporarilyclosed thecontroversial RobertMapplethorpeexhibit that resulted in charges today against The Contemporary Arts Center and its director." "It's an important exhibition." "It's important for this city thatitbe seenhere." "(angry shouting)" "Man:" "ItwassuggestedthatIwear abulletproofvest." "There would be calls to the home or calls to my office saying, "We're gonna kill your children."" "Dan Rather:" "Theartgallery anditsdirector are charged with obscenity for exhibiting photographs by the late Robert Mapplethorpe." "(gavel banging)" "Reporter:" "The jury took about two hours to come up with its decision." "(man reading) We, the jury in this case, find the defendant not guilty of pandering obscenity." "(crowd cheering)" "Judge:" "Order!" "Order!" "(gavel banging)" "(gavel banging)" "Auctioneer:" "Nextupis theRobert MapplethorpeFlag, the great "Star-Spangled Banner," gelatin silver print, for $48,000." "Now goes to 48,000, 48,000, 50, 55,000, 60, 65,000." "Thank you, ma'am." "He was always giving me his work." "$70,000 with Caroline." "I had, at least, half a dozen photographs and a collage." "$70,000." "Don't ask me what I did with this, please, because if I kept it, I wouldn't be here." "I'd be in my villa in Tuscany." "I can't discuss, too upsetting." "Sold!" "I threw it away." "Sold!" "When I moved." "Sold!" "Lebowitz:" "Itoldthisonce toanartdealer." "And he said, "I can't believe you didn't know" ""that someone as ambitious as Robert-- as clearly ambitious, wouldn't become famous."" "AndI said,"Noone  couldhaveimagined" ""thatphotographswould besovaluablefinancially."" "Because they weren't." "No photographs were." "It wasn't just that I couldn't imagine it." "No one could imagine it." "Whatever it took to become Robert Mapplethorpe is what it was gonna take and it took his life to do it..." "Literally." "¶ ¶" "¶ ¶" "Man:" "Mapplethorpe by himself, the name is really great." "It's like Titian or Piranesi." "Just the name, that's all you need is the last name to recognize the artist." "It's so clear and simple." "What if you stacked three images into the..." "We can't have nudity on the street banners 'cause the city regulations." "So that's one point of discussion, second is the color." "This is a mock-up of the invitation for our opening reception." "His self-portrait on the front, then inside message." "Then the RSVP card." "It's just an innocuous flower, not anything that the Post Office would object to." "I'm not planning to put a curtain, but I'm sure there'll be some kind of warning on the gallery as people go in." "Well, and with her holding her sculpture." "Oh, that was purposeful." "Yeah, it's so great." "I wanted to put Louise Bourgeois holding her sculpture, Lafayette, which looks like a phallus, next to the picture of "Man in the Polyester Suit."" "Yes, with his actual phallus." "It's a curatorial pun." "¶ ¶"