"She's ready to..." "Right?" "I'm..." "I remember my dad used to say," ""you have three strikes against you in this world." ""Every black man has two..." ""that they're just black, and they're a male." "You're gonna have a hard time."" "And he said, "if you're gonna do this, than you ever imagined."" "May have to open the door." "Y'all have to open that door, too." "Get off the floor." "Get off the floor!" "Learn it, and learn it well." "All right, miss Heather!" "Ohhh!" "Girl, give me those mother heel!" "Do you want me to say who I am and all of that?" ""I'm Pepper Labeija, and I'm..."" "I am Pepper Labeija, the legendary mother of the house of Labeija." "Not the founder..." "crystal was the founder." "I..." "I just rule it now..." "With a soft glove." "And it's important to me to be the mother, 'cause there's so many little kids that I have to look out for." "Although they don't listen to me, and they buck my authority," "I still think I rule it pretty well." "They like me." "I'm one of the more popular ones, and I've been around for two decades... reigning, that is." "You know, I've got more grand prizes than all the rest." "Gay people... men... and decide to have a competition amongst themselves." "Balls." "I went to a ball." "I got a trophy." "And now everybody wants to know me." "This movie is about the ball circuit and the gay people that's involved in it and how each person's life brought them to this circuit." "It's like crossing into the looking glass in wonderland." "You go in there, and you feel..." "you feel 100% right... as... of being gay." "And that's not what it's like in the world." "That's not what it's like in the world." "That's not what it's like in the world." "You know, it should be like that in the world." "This society, going to a football game, basketball... that's their entertainment." "You know, a ball is ours." "We prepare for a ball." "We may spend more time preparing for a ball than anybody would spend preparing for anything else." "You know, a ball is like our world." "The balls, to us, is as close to reality as we're gonna get to all of that fame and fortune and stardom and spotlights." "I'd always see the way that rich people lived." "And I'd feel it more, you know... it would slap me in the face." "I'd say, "I'd have to have that."" "Because I never felt comfortable being poor." "Or even middle class doesn't suit me." "Seeing the riches, seeing the way people on "dynasty" lived..." "And I would think," ""these people have 42 rooms in their house." "Oh, my God." "What kind of a house is that?"" "And we've got three." "So why is it that they can have it and I didn't?" "I always felt cheated out of things like that." "You have space to do all that you intend to." "Now, the categories are... butch queen, 1 through 17." "And for the girls, 18 through 30." "As far as all of y'all not walking, please realize that we all..." "at one time or another... have lusted to walk a ballroom floor." "So give the patrons and the contestants, you know, a round of applause for nerve." "'Cause with y'all vicious mother, it do take nerve." "Believe me." "We're not going to be shady, just fierce." "Those balls are more or less like our fantasy of being a superstar." "You know, like the oscars or whatever." "Or being on a runway as a model." "You know, a lot of those kids that are in the balls, they don't have two of nothing." "Some of them don't even eat." "They come to balls starving." "And they sleep in the under-21, or they sleep on the pier or wherever." "They don't have a home to go to." "But they'll go out, and they'll steal something and get dressed up and come to a ball for that one night and live the fantasy." "A ball is the very word... whatever you want to be, you be." "So at a ball, you have a chance to display your arrogance, your seductiveness, your beauty, your wit," "You can become anything and do anything right here, right now, and it won't be questioned." "I came." "I saw." "I conquered." "Give her what she want." "She'll bring it to you every ball." "Why y'all gagging so?" "I guess I like the excitement." "You know, it's them cheering and screaming if you were good." "And that's what got me, 'cause I like the competition." "Makes me stronger." "It makes me think more." "Makes me want to come back and get them." "It's not just the winning." "It's... it's the giving, too." "'Cause I feel that I give a lot of enjoyment to a lot of people that go to balls." "And they enjoy to see it, and I enjoy to walk for them." "So that's my..." "Philosophy, as I should say." "To be legendary is like... their goal is to be legendary." "You know, let you know, "I'm legendary, you're not."" "That's... you know, it feels good to them." "An Oscar." "A Oscar, right." "It's the same thing." "You know?" "Become a legend..." "you have an Oscar." "It's the same thing." "I don't really consider myself a real legend." "I..." "I've been at the balls with the legendary children, and I've stamped myself with the legendary children." "But I'm really..." "I'm one of top, upcoming children..." "legendary." "You have legendary children and upcoming legendary children." "Right." "We're the upcoming ones." "We've been out longer than the ones that are here now." "And we done had our... we have our status in the ballroom." "How long did it take you to do the tank top?" "An hour?" "Yes." "You don't do that." "It usually doesn't take you an hour to do a shirt, especially a tank top?" "Mnh-mnh." "That's not your speed." "Kim pendavis!" "Statement... future legend." "Kim and me have..." "we've been together... and it's more or less me," "I'm the one that's Kim's protége, because I go with Kim to the balls, help him out, help him iron." "'Cause if I don't go to a ball with him and iron," "I mean, he'll be here wrinkled." "Or he'd be there ironing." "But, you know, it helps out when somebody else is there in your corner, at your side, to say, "yeah, you can do it."" ""You're gonna be fine." "Just go out there and do what you usually do."" "Just simple, you know, joy and satisfaction." "you know, I don't really ask much." "And then, from time to time, later on I can wear the outfit." "Yeah!" "Work!" "Liz Taylor is famous..." "So is Pepper Labeija." "In a sense, so am I." "But a very much different quantity." "No magazine's gonna run up to cover me if I go to a premier." "But it's still a fame." "It's a small fame." "But you absorb, and you take it." "And you like it." "You like the adulation, the applause..." "The people cheering you on..." "The winning." "It's like, uh, a physical high." "It's... you know, it's a good high." "It's an addictive high, like all highs... in the long run..." "turn out to be." "But it's a high that won't hurt you." "If everybody went to balls and did less drugs, it'd be a fun world, wouldn't it?" "I'm dressing, of course, to go do a show." "Because I've always done this professionally." "And I was a dancer." "And I'm trying to remember when the first time I went to a ball." "That was the early-type ball, when everybody just walked, and they gave away, like, four or five prizes in a very limited category." "And the children now..." "most of them... 75% of the children you see at the ball wouldn't know what a ball was if it knocked them in the head." "When I first started going to balls, it was all about drag queens, and they were interested in looking like" "Las Vegas show girls... backpieces, tailpieces, feathers, beads, and all that." "But as the '70s rolled around, the thing started changing." "It started coming down to just wanting to look like a gorgeous movie star, like Marilyn Monroe, Elizabeth Taylor." "And now they've went from that to trying to look like models like Iman and Christie Brinkley and maud Adams and all those children." "Everyone couldn't be a Las Vegas show girl." "Everyone couldn't put on a stack of feathers and a big headpiece." "So they made the categories where everybody... that's what really made the balls change." "So there was more involvement." "Everyone that goes to one of these affairs now damn near participates." "Eventually, over the course of a year's balls, they've all walked the runway in some category or another." "Either you've got a nice body or you are very fashionable or you're very pretty or you're very real-looking." "But there's always something there for everyone." "And it's like..." "it's like in nature..." "I'm such a nature fan... the young ones are always bucking to move the... the old bulls out of the way." "go through all these mad categories that I never can stay awake for." "Upcoming pretty girl... 1986." "Take it to the floor." "They're showing off for the press." "Audience, please back up and give them air!" "Next category... high fashion winter sportswear, the poconos versus the catskills." "is there anyone walking?" "Some children were asking me what I meant by "miss cheesecake."" "That means you must not only have a body, but you must be sexy." "Going to school." "School." "Elementary." "College." "Not here." "School." "Looking like a girl going to school." "Do she look like a girl going to school?" "Town and country." "Exclusively done." "Dupree!" "Dupree!" "Dupree!" "...get into their suits." "I said, the well-dressed men of the '80s, get into the suits and get into the pumps." "In real life, you can't get a job as an executive unless you have the educational background and the opportunity." "Now, the fact that you are not an executive is merely because of the social standing of life." "That is just pure thing." "Black people have a hard time getting anywhere." "And those that do are usually straight." "In a ballroom, you can be anything you want." "but you're looking like an executive." "And therefore you're showing the straight world that" ""I can be an executive." ""If I had the opportunity, I could be one, because I can look like one."" "And that is like a fulfillment." "Your peers, your friends are telling you," "Is this the businessman of the '80s or what?" "High-fashion Parisian." "Model's yvette." "Chanté, chante." "Chanté, chante, chanté, chanté, chante." "Model!" "Thin!" "Streamlined!" "Trim!" "Model!" "The category is..." "You know what I mean!" "You know what Paris means." "Exactly!" "Butch queen!" "Butch queen." "Butch queen!" "Butch queen." "Butch!" "First time in drag at a ball..." "that's what I wanted for me." "The military scene is a basic scene." "It doesn't call for a bunch of flamboyant Turkey boas and bugle beads, rhinestone." "It's a basic category." "The more natural you are, the more credit your outfit is given." "Come on, now, it is a known fact that a woman do carry an evening bag at dinnertime." "There's no getting around that." "between "all my children" and "jeopardy!"..." ""Another world," "Dallas," and the whole bit." "A evening bag is a must." "You have to carry something." "No lady is sure at night." "With the current children..." "the children that are young... they've gone to television, you know?" "I've been to several balls, and they've actually had categories..." ""dynasty"... you know, want you to look like Alexis or Krystle." "And I guess that's just, um, a statement of the times." "When I grew up, you wanted to look like Marlene Dietrich," "Betty grable." "Fortunately, I didn't know that I really wanted to look like Lena horne." "When I grew up, of course, you know..." "Black stars were stigmatized." "Nobody wanted to look like Lena horne." "Everybody wanted to look like Marilyn Monroe." "When you're a man and a woman, you can do anything." "You can... you can almost have sex on the streets if you want to." "The most somebody will say is, "hey, get a hump for me."" "But when you're gay, you monitor everything you do." "You monitor how you look, how you dress, how you talk, how you act." ""Did they see me?" "What did they think of me?"" "To be able to blend." "That's what realness is." "If you can pass the untrained eye... or even the trained eye... and not give away the fact that you're gay, that's when it's realness." "Fangie." "Looking like the boy that probably robbed you a few minutes before you came to Paris' ball." "The idea of realness is to look as much as possible like your straight counterpart." "Shake the dice and steal the rice!" "Right here." "Come on, baby." "Yes, daddy." "I got my food stamps and card waiting." "All right." "Dust, coke, base, soap, rolaids... he got it." "The realer you look, it means you look like a real woman." "Or you look like a real man..." "A straight man." "Sweetheart, with the cigarette, you're giving me a banji girl effect." "This is banji." "You know, the girls that be on the corner talking about your man." "One that can hang out with the roughest..." "It's not a takeoff or a satire." "No, it's actually being able to be this." "Brenda Xtravaganza." "Looking like a banji girl." "Banji." "Banji girl realness." "You know, one that can take her little baby brother to school." "One that say, "you know, like, um, hey." "I saw a bunch of those things walking down the street."" "It's really a case of going back into the closet." "10!" "10!" "10!" "10!" "Are there any more?" "Okay, girls, have we come to a decision?" "They give the society that they live in" "Rather than have to go through prejudices about your life and your lifestyle, you can walk around confidently, blending in with everybody else." "You've erased all the mistakes, all the flaws, all the giveaways to make your illusion perfect." "Bernie..." "Diane..." "My mother knew I had trophies, but I was telling her I won them for basketball." "And I had won trophies for running track." "I was walking up 145th street with my girlfriends." "I had on white hot pants, a chiffon blouse, a pony tail." "And my father was waiting for the light in his car." "And he saw me." "He recognized me." "And he went straight to my house before I could get there and told my mother," ""your son is a woman."" "She didn't press it then." "But, like, maybe a few months later when she noticed that I had breasts, everything started coming together." "She really was devastated." ""How could you have breasts bigger than mine?" ""You're growing nails." ""You're becoming a woman right before my very eyes." ""I can't hold my head up." "And she still loved me, but the nagging and the... oh, my God, about this women's clothes." "And when I had women's clothes stashed in my closet and she found them, she would destroy them." "She burnt up a mink coat." "I was, oh..." "Devastated." "She smelled the perfume in it that I liked to wear... which was jungle gardenia at the time... and she said, "this ain't no girl's coat." "This is your coat."" "Took it downstairs in the backyard of the building and burned it." "And I stood there and cried like a baby." "As long I have the mustache and all that, it's cute for me." "She don't want me being in no girls' clothes." "She can't take it." "When they're undetectable... when they can walk out of that ballroom into the sunlight and onto the subway and get home and still have all their clothes and no blood running off their bodies... those are the femme realness queens." "And usually it's a category for young queens." "Some of them say that we're sick, we're crazy." "And some of them think that we are the most gorgeous, special things on earth." "I would like to be a spoiled, rich white girl." "They get what they want, whenever they want it." "And they don't have to really struggle with finances and nice things and nice clothes." "And they don't have to have that as a problem." "I don't feel that there's anything mannish about me, except maybe what I might have between me down there," "Which is my little personal thing, so..." "I guess that's why I want my sex change... to make myself complete." "I was about 13, 14 years old, and I used to do it behind my family's back... till finally they caught on with it." "And I didn't want to embarrass them, so that's when I moved away." "I moved to New York, and I continued doing it." "When someone has rejection from their mother and father, their family, they... when they get out in the world, they search." "They search for someone to fill that void." "I know this for experience, because I've had kids come to me and latch hold to me like I'm their mother or like I'm their father." "'Cause they can talk to me, and I'm gay, and they're gay." "And that's where a lot of that "ballness"" "and... and the mother business comes in." "Because their real parents give them such a hard way to go, they look up to me to fill that void." "How old are you?" "I'm 15." "What time is it?" "Right here, homeboy." "Look at the time over there." "2:26." "And y'all..." "how old are you?" "Me?" "I'm 13." "13?" "!" "And you're out here at 2:26?" "Yeah." "Where you live?" "Me, I live in Harlem." "And why you down here?" "Where's your mother?" "Hanging out." "I don't have a mother." "Everybody has a mother, or we wouldn't be here." "Where's your mother?" "She's gone." "Where's your father?" "He's gone, too." "So who you live with?" "With a friend." "And you too?" "I live with my mother in the Bronx." "And y'all just hanging out like this at..." "Just hanging out." "Right there inside." "they come from such sad backgrounds, you know - broken homes or no home at all." "And then the few that do have family, when the family finds that they're gay, they "X" them completely." "A house?" "Let's see if we can put it down sharply." "They're families." "You can say that." "For a lot of children who don't have families." "But this is a new meaning of "family."" "The hippies had families, and no one thought nothing about it." "It wasn't a question of a man and a woman and children, which we grew up knowing as a family." "It's a question of a group of human beings in a mutual bond." "You know what a house is?" "I'll tell you what a house is." "A house is a gay street gang." "Now, where street gangs get their rewards from street fights, a gay house street-fights at a ball." "And you street-fight at a ball by walking in the categories." "The houses started because you wanted a name." "The people that the houses are named after were ball walkers who became known for winning." "Work..." "Paris..." "Dupree." "After the first few houses were started and named after people who had won trophies, they also would create houses." "Like, a new group of kids would just create a house, then they'd work at building its name up, which worked... the house of Xtravaganza, the house of Saint Laurent." "Overness." "Pendavis." "Adonis." "Lamay." "Pendavis." "Saint Laurent, of course." "Dupree." "They saw me, and they all liked me... all the rest of the Xtravaganzas... and they decided, "well, if you want to become an Xtravaganza"," ""you have to walk a ball for us." ""And if you snatch a trophy, then you can become the Xtravaganza."" "That's how it's supposed to work with any... everyone." "But, uh..." "Like, that wasn't with me." "I just became an Xtravaganza." "He's the one who started the house." "He was the first gay man I ever met." "The first time he took me to the village... which was my birthday..." "I had just turned 15 years old." "And he threw a party for me out there." "He bought me a cake." "I met a lot of drag queens, transvestites, that I didn't believe were because they were so beautiful." "And that kind of sunk into my head." "And I guess that's why it kind of made me want to even do it more." "They treat each other like sisters, mm-hmm." "Sisters..." "Or brothers..." "Or mothers or..." "You know, like, I say, "oh, that's my sister,"" "because she's gay, too, and I'm gay, and she's a drag queen or whatever." "My mother is Angie Xtravaganza, and my father is David Xtravaganza." "The house of Xtravaganza has done a lot." "It's made me feel like I have a family." "We're always together." "We're always... if we're not together, we always speak on the phone." "My name is Angie Xtravaganza, and I am the mother of the house of Xtravaganza." "When there's a ball," "I'm always doing something for everybody in my house." "I do that one's hair, the other one's makeup." "Their accessories." "I always offer advice." "You know, I mean, as far as what I know and what I've been through in gay life." "You know, I ran away from my house when I was 14, and I've learned all sorts of things... good and bad." "And how to survive in gay world, you know, it's kind of hard." "Xtravaganza power!" "I bought her her tits." "I paid for them." "Our mother even nurses us!" "She's a good woman." "From the house of xtravaganza, for "mother of the year,"" "keeping her children intact, can we have Angie xtravaganza?" "Work for us, girl." "Work that runway." "This is from Andre Christian, girl." "My birthday will come, and I always get a birthday gift from Angie." "Won't get one from my real mother." "Like when I got thrown out of my house," "Angie let me stay with her until I got myself together, and I got working." "She always fed me." "She can be a pain in the ass at times, but I wouldn't trade her in for any other mother." "Ninja." "You know, you have to have something to offer in order to lead." "because she's usually the best one out of the group." "I'm Willi Ninja, the mother of the House of Ninja." "Give him what he wants!" "I am the mother of the house of Ninja because they say I'm the best voguer out." "To be the mother of the house, you have to have the most power." "Take a real family... it's the mother that's the hardest worker, and the mother gets the most respect." "As far as my naming my house "the house of Ninja"..." "Ninjas hit hard, they hit fast..." "And that's what we are." "We come out to assassinate." "The house of Labeija is the legendary house above all of them." "I have the most members, I'm the most popular." "New York City is wrapped up in being Labeija." "So..." "It speaks for itself." "And I am the fiercest mother out of all of them." "Labeija?" "I wouldn't be caught dead in that house." "I'm sorry." "I don't see that house." "Only reason I see my house..." "pendavis... is because Kim and avis." "'Cause both of them walked." "And at the last ball, avis showed her goddamn ass off!" "They call them competitions." "But believe me, they're wars." "And they often do lead to fights." "The emotions be very high." "They're very intense, very intense affairs." "But I guess that's what makes them fun." "Like a good movie..." "if there's no emotion..." "You don't enjoy it." "I don't talk too much about the ball kids because I want them to talk about me." "Because I haven't walked yet." "And it's like, well, William says," ""I want you to walk in my ball." "I want you to walk in my ball."" "And I keep telling William, I say, "I'll walk when I walk."" ""I'll walk when I want, not when you want." "I'll walk when I want."" "And so far, I don't know when I'm gonna walk." "I'm thinking somewhat around the time of the legends ball." "But don't quote me on that." "I mean, it really causes hate, actually, between two individuals." "It's like a war on the floor." "Like world war III." "But the only thing about it..." "they're gay." "Now... cut the music..." "now, I said..." "I said, "men's garments"!" "He looked like he had on a man's fox coat." "Tell this child, where are the men's garments?" "I paid for it, mother!" "A man bought it!" "It buttons on the right side!" "The judges... it buttons on the right side!" "Someone came up and told the emcee..." "Are you a judge?" "!" "That it was a woman's coat." "I thought it was kind of silly to nitpick." "Ooh, that's shady!" "They're throwing shade at him." "I can't believe it." "Wait a minute." "Wait a minute." "Wait a minute." "Wait a minute, now." "Let's not get loud." "Now, David." "David." "David." "That's the one thing that I find faulty with the balls." "After they've laid down these little categories, then they try to become a stickler for exact interpretation... merely a point to discredit the contestant." "Like in an Olympics where the Russian judge brought to the fact that the American coach had stepped onto the floor, and that was a disqualification for the contestant... just as picky as a ball." "So those little flaws like that... that's because that's a part of shade." "That's the idea..." "knock them out if you can." "Get them any way you..." "hit them below the belt." "It was typed out!" "The second... where is it?" "Where is it?" "Where is it?" "Where is it?" "Stop!" "No ball." "Shade comes from reading." "Reading came first." "Reading is the real art form of insult." "Now, you want to talk about reading?" "Let's talk about reading." "What is wrong with you, Pedro?" "Are you going through it?" "You're going through some kind of psychological change in your life?" "She went back to be a man." "Oh, you went back to being a man." "Touch this skin, darling." "Touch this skin, honey." "Touch all of this skin." "Okay?" "You just can't take it." "You're just an overgrown orangutan." "You get in a smart crack, and everyone laughs and kee-kees because you found a flaw and exaggerated it... then you've got a good read going." "I am a person just like you." "You cut me, I bleed the same way you do." "I bleed the same color." "If it's happening between the gay world and the straight world," "It's more of an insult, a vicious slur-fight." "See, see?" "There go my sister right there." "She don't even want to even admit that she my sister." "She a bulldagger." "But it's how they develop a sense of how to read." "That's my husband right there." "And that's my girlfriend right there." "They may call you a faggot or a drag queen." "You find something to call them." "But then when you are all of the same thing, then you have to go to the fine point." "In other words, if I'm a black queen and you're a black queen, we can't call each other black queens 'cause we're both black queens." "That's not a read." "That's just a fact." "So then we talk about your ridiculous shape." "Your fa... saggy face." "Your tacky clothes." "Let me see what you are..." "spreading lies!" "Let's see." "Oh!" "No paint!" "Yes, it's paint!" "It's paint!" "No mother paint, girl!" "What?" "She wears more makeup than my mother did!" "Then reading became a developed form where it became shade." "Shade is "I don't tell you you're ugly, but I don't have to tell you because you know you're ugly."" "And that's shade." "Pump..." "Dip..." "Spin..." "Pump..." "Dip..." "Voguing is the same thing as, like, taking two knives and cutting each other up, but through a dance form." "Pump..." "Dip..." "Spin..." "Vogue." "Dip." "Go..." "Turn..." "It..." "Out." "Voguing came from shade because it was a dance that two people did because they didn't like each other." "Instead of fighting, you would dance it out on the dance floor." "And whoever did the better moves was throwing the best shade, basically." "No touching." "Neither one of you." "If you touch, I'm chopping you." "I'm telling you right now." "You could take the pantomime form of the vogue... this is what, generally, sometimes I do is I make my hand into a form like a compact or a makeup kit." "And I'm, like, beating my face with blush, shadows, or whatever, to the music." "Then, usually, I'll turn the compact around to face that person... meaning, like, almost like my hand is a mirror... for them to get a look." "Then I'll start doing their face, because what they have on their face right now needs a dramatic makeup job." "So voguing's like a safe form of throwing shade." "Paris..." "Dupree." "Work." "Paris..." "Dupree." "Work." "Whoo!" "All right, miss..." "Don't knock Paris." "Come on, baby, take your time." "Bring it to the judges." "Judges, get into the form and the style." "Work." "Let's hear it for her." "The name was taken from the magazine "vogue,"" "because some of the movements of the dance are also the same as the poses inside the magazine." "Work, damn it!" "The name is a statement in itself." "I mean, you really wouldn't go to a ball to do the "mademoiselle."" "No way." "Now I want all y'all up on the floor!" "New York and Jersey!" "Wake up!" "Come on!" "Whoo!" "Brother." "This is Saint Laurent." "Adonis." "Overness." "Bobby lamay." "Whoo, I wish I knew how to do that." "Mm-mm-mmm." "Ouch!" "Work!" "Work!" "Work!" "Work!" "Work!" "the dance takes from the hieroglyphics of ancient Egypt." "It also takes from some forms of gymnastics." "They both strive for perfect lines in the body, awkward positions, but it goes one step further." "It's starting to make a name for itself, but I want it to be known worldwide, and I want to be on top of it when it hits." "I want to take voguing not to just Paris is burning, but I want to take it to the real Paris and make the real Paris burn." "That's what I want to do, and not just there, but to other countries as well." "My house name is Ninja, and I would really like to take my whole house and go to Japan..." "And really let loose and do it and have them accept it there." "I want to be a big star." "Uh, known, generally, every corner of the world." "You know, maybe as a choreographer, a famous dancer, a singer, or all of them." "What the balls has to do with that, as far as the dance field, is maybe perfecting my craft a little better, to learn new things, new ideas, and bring them to the real world." "It's been really unbelievable, my life." "If I was to die today or tomorrow," "I could not say I've not had an exciting life." "I have had a fabu..." "and I'm not rich, mind you." "Just imagine if I had the dollars." "Ooh, it'd be too much for the world." "If I had the riches and I had the fame, trust me, all of y'all in here would be rich..." "'Cause I'm very generous." "You know, I can't..." "I wouldn't enjoy having a whole lot of money, like being a millionaire and hoarding it, you know?" "I'd share it with all my loved ones." "You know, I'd want them to have it, too." "We'd all have to go." "I'd want to charter a plane, and we all fly to Paris." "O-p-u-l-e-n-c-e... opulence." "You own everything." "Everything is yours." "This is white America." "Any other nationality that is not of the white set knows this and accepts this till the day they die." "That is everybody's dream and ambition as a minority... to live and look as well as a white person." "It is pictured as being in America." "Every media you have, from TV to magazines to movies to films..." "I mean, the biggest thing that minority watches is what?" ""Dynasty" and "the Colbys."" "Um, "all my children," the soap operas." "Everybody have a million-dollar bracket." "When they showing you a commercial from honey grahams to crest or lestoil or pine-sol, everybody's in their own home." "The little kids for fisher-price toys, they're not in no concrete playground." "They're riding around the lawn." "The pool is in the back." "This is white America." "And when it comes to the minorities, especially black..." "We, as a people for the past 400 years, is the greatest example of behavior modification in the history of civilization." "We have had everything taken away from us, and yet we have all learned how to survive." "That is why, in the ballroom circuit, it is so obvious that if you have captured the great white way of living..." "Or looking..." "Or dressing or speaking..." "You is a marvel." "I think if I could just be on TV or film or anything," "I'd do that instead of the money." "Of course, I do want the money because I want the luxury that goes with it." "But..." "I want to be wealthy." "If not wealthy, content, comfortable..." "You know?" "I want to be somebody." "I mean, I am somebody." "I just want to be a rich somebody." "You ain't gonna tell me, you see her in the supermarket, and you're gonna say, "that's a hag."" "Women don't go out of their way because they are women." "I went out my way because I wasn't, and I felt that I wanted to be the best I can be." "The Virginia slims girl is here." "This was not a game for me or fun." "This is something that I want to live." "She's here in person." "Hopefully, God willing, by 1988, I fully hope to become a full-fledged woman of the United States." "You look at all these models on the wall." "Every one of them are gorgeous." "Every one of them are beautiful." "But every one of them have their own look." "This is my idol..." "Paulina." "Someday I hope to be up there with her." "If that could be me," "I think I would be the happiest person in the world, just knowing that I can compare to Paulina, to stand next to her and to take pictures with her." "And I look at her here, and I'd say she's seductive, and she's alluring." "I look at her there, and I say she's sexy and provocative." "I look at her here, and I think that she's childish and little-girl type." "You know, and I look at her here, and it's the same." "And I look at her here, and I think of wicked beauty." "You know?" "That's how I see her." "I-I admire her... you know, the red-hot fire of hair and..." "The whole bit." "If you're not really trying hard enough, then I become hard." "Do not believe just because I'm a guy that I cannot do it." "In order to be a teacher and show girls how to do it," "I have to know how to do it." "I've taught for various shows, like for F.I.T., I've taught models." "Girls that are from various agencies... they've come to me by word of mouth." "New York City women are a little bit harder than most women." "Basically, I'm trying to bring their femininity back and bring some grace and poise." "You know, whether they become models or not, it's nice to know because it's more attractive to men." "The walk that she's doing... it's basically to get more movement in your hips naturally." "Don't exaggerate." "Most likely, she'll get what she wants." "You know, especially if she's in a man's world, she can still have her equal rights, but be able to manipulate a man by using her feminine wiles." "Are they soft?" "Looking from head to toe, would you know?" " Is this realness or not?" " Let it be mother hot." "Miss octavia, you don't feel this realness?" "Where are you at, sister?" "Oops, you're right there." "Labeija..." "Candy Labeija." "Realness in the daytime, darling." "She goes to school as a woman." "Get into it." "Get into both of them and see which one is realer." "Feel the flesh or whatever it may be." "Is it soft or not?" "It's soft." "Come, come, come." "Score miss octavia first." "Step forward to accept your scores." "10, 10, 10, 10, 10." "Score Tennille." "9, 10, 10." "grand prize, octavia." "First place, Tennille." "There's people who sit home all day." "They have potential, okay?" "I mean, they go to the balls, and they prove that they have potentials on actually selling a garment, okay?" "But they, like, "being that I have this potential"," ""the ballroom tells me, okay, the ballroom tells me that I'm somebody."" "But when the ballroom is over, when you come home, you have to convince yourself that you are somebody, and that's where they get lost." "It's also in a magazine." "What's the name of the magazine?" "when you could spend a great deal of time making outfits and preparing for something." "Now they come very quickly, and the moods change very quickly." "I come from the old school of big costumes... feathers and beads... and they don't have that anymore." "Now it's all about designers, and it's not about what you create, it's about what you can acquire." "What do you think?" "Isn't that beautiful?" "$559... how's that for a simple dress?" "If you have on a label, it means that you've, uh, you've got wealth, when it doesn't really, 'cause any shoplifter can get a label." "You can't come down the runway in something for $14.99 or $49.99 and say, "well, I'm lovely,"" "and expect to win." "Okay, to describe..." "explain "mopping."" "Mopping, you go into a store, and..." "Just look for..." "look for whatever you want to see, look for whatever." "Mopping is stealing." "General stealing." "However it's done, it's stealing." "If you're working every day, you're struggling to buy this outfit." "When you walk, you're like, "this is me."" "And your facial expressions as well as your means of projection of your outfit... it shows if you actually stole it or you purchased it." "You can actually tell?" "You can actually tell." "Faggots are a stunt in themselves, regardless." "Make no mistake." "First, it come..." "okay, when it comes to a stunt, it goes in..." "it goes in order." "It goes faggots, then girls, then boys, because boys are the stupidest." "They don't know how to do a stunt right." "Now, faggots will do a stunt, and I mean, you will never catch up with it until years later." "And then, I mean, you'll be like," ""oh, , this faggot pulled this stunt on me."" "We went down there." "We had fun." "We just act stupid and came back." "But I think the best thing we did was Roy Rogers." "That was fun." "You would have had something to eat, 'cause how much did you pay for that sandwich?" "I don't remember..." "maybe $5." "Around $5?" "That... make no mistake, we got your $5 back." "I had two double cheeseburgers, two fries, a coke, a sprite, and an orange, chicken, and chips." "Just going back and forth..." "I lived on that line." "We got over... around..." "around... say, around $200 in food." "See, they put cheese on the meat." "I hope after this," "Roy Rogers does not change how it has its food because if it does by this interview," "I will be so upset." "I will be so upset." "I'll be..." "I'll be hurt, I'm telling you." "I really will be, 'cause I mean it." "Where else can you go in, get it done your way," "Carla xtravaganza said... will you please return her black patent-leather shoes, size 7?" "There is a reward." "She want her pumps." "She said it's not going to work, taking her shoes." "Give them back." "Daytime, if they go out, they're only going out..." "To try to hustle up a quarter or two..." "To get their things for the ball or go to a little job." "A lot of them have little jobs now." "They work." "Don't think they're lazy." "In New York City, you work, or you starve." "You work..." "some kind of work..." "Legal or otherwise, but you have to work to sustain yourself." "The legendary Tennille dupree and the father of the house of ebony, Max Debuciak, presents a night of living hell and punishment at the imperial elks lodge," "160 west 129th street, which is right here." "Doors open at 5:00 A.M." "Grand march is at 7:00 A.M." "the boys are usually later because of the fact that we're waiting for the working girls to get there." "And what is it those girls are doing?" "Well, they're making money for the balls, or they're making their costumes, their outfits, or, you know, getting it together like that." "What's their profession?" "Usually showgirls... usually, they're, you know, showgirls." "Uh-huh." "Anything else?" "You know?" "Well, it depends." "It depends." "I don't know a lot of their professions, but usually they're showgirls... usually." "The thing that helped me make my most money through the escort service is being that I'm so little." "I'm so petite and tiny." "Um..." "The blond hair and the light skin and the green eyes and the little features." "And the client's hands will be bigger than my hands while they would hold my hand or something." "You know, they like feeling that they're with something perfect and little, and not someone that's bigger than them, because I guess that kind of disturbs them." "Most all the drag queens that are involved in the balls, they... 90% of them..." "are hustlers." "I guess that's how they make their money to go to the balls and get whatever they need." "I used to hustle in New York to make my money." "I was with a guy, and he was playing with my titties till he touched me down there." "He felt it, and he seen it, and he, like, totally flipped out." "He said, "you fucking faggot!" "You're a freak."" ""You're a victim of aids, and you're trying to give me aids." "You're a homo." "I should kill you."" "You know, stuff like that." "And, like, I was really terrified." "So I just jumped out the window." "I grabbed my bag and just jumped out the window." "But see, now I don't like to hustle anymore." "I don't, and I'm afraid of what's going on... the aids..." "and I don't want to catch it." "Like, later on this evening, I'm supposed to meet someone... a friend of mine, a very good old friend of mine." "He's a young, very good, attractive, handsome young man." "And, um, he's taking me out to dinner later on this evening, or for cocktails after midnight." "I know he'll give me some money..." "Just for me to maybe buy a pair of shoes and a nice dress so that the next time he sees me..." "He'll see me looking more and more beautiful... the way he wants to see me." "But I don't have to go to bed with him or anything like that." "At times, they do expect sexual favors, but that is between myself and them, so I do not wish to further speak about that..." "If they do." "But at most times, 99% of the time, they don't." "95% of the time, they don't." "But I feel like..." "If you're married..." "a woman in the suburbs, a regular woman..." "Is married to her husband, and she wants him to buy her a washer and dryer set..." "In order for him to buy that," "I'm sure she'd have to go to bed with him anyway to give him what he wants for her to get what she wants." "So, in the long run, it all ends up the same way." "If money wasn't so important in the world today..." "To survive..." "I guess I wouldn't want anything but what I have now." "But since money does..." "I hope that the way I look puts money in my pocket." "You know?" "I'm really working hard." "I'm gonna work even harder." "Yeah." "There we are." "That is lovely." "Still." "Great." "Couldn't be better." "There... oh, it's beautiful like that for the light when you kind of, you know, do this to the light." "I want people to look at me as, "there's the model octavia." ""There's the actress octavia." "There's miss supermodel of the world, octavia."" "Is this endless, this catalog of poses?" "I could keep going longer than you could." "Yeah, just there." "Mm-hmm." "Mm-hmm." "I don't want to end up an old drag queen with nothing going for me but trying to win grand prize at a ball." "Yeah, no, back a little bit like you did." "Yes, that." "just coming around..." "yeah." "Right." "Couldn't be better." "I don't think the world has been fair to me..." "Lovely." "Lovely." "I've been a man, and I've been a man who emulated a woman." "I've never been a woman." "I never had that service once a month." "I've never been pregnant." "You know, I can never say how a woman feels." "I can only say how a man who acts like a woman or dresses like a woman feels." "I never wanted to have a sex change." "That's just taking it a little too far, you know?" "Because if you decide later on in life to change your mind, you can't..." "once it's gone, it's gone." "A lot of kids that I know, they got the sex change because they felt," ""oh, I've been treated so bad as a drag queen." ""If I get a"..." "excuse the expression..." ""I'll be treated fabulous."" "But women get treated bad." "You know, they get beat, they get robbed, they get dogged." "So having the vagina, that doesn't mean that you're gonna have a fabulous life." "It might, in fact, be worse, you know." "So I've never recommended it, and I myself would have never, ever got it, and I'm so thankful that I was that smart, because right about now, this next 40 or so years that I'm gonna be here," "I'm gonna live." "And for those children that can't take the fact that I still look youthful, ha!" "Suffer." "No bags, no lines." "Lovely." "America's nice." "You can do what you want if you have the money." "You can be what you want, certainly." "Look at me." "In, um, '84," "I've had a nose reconstructed... job." "I've had my cheekbones risen." "I've had a chin implant and breast implants." "Yes, tell them like it is." "The most important factor in my life that has been completed recently is that I've had a transsexualism operation." "That means I've had a sex change." "I'm no longer a man." "I am a woman." "I feel great." "I'm very happy." "She has to rub it in." "And I feel like the part of my life that was a secret is now closed." "I can close the closet door." "There are no more skeletons in there." "And I'm as free as the wind that's blowing out on this beach." "Except that voice is still there." "Oh!" "As free as this beach." "Free gift today at the dior counter." "Sample poison by dior, ladies." "Sample the elegance today..." "poison by dior." "Can I sample it?" "Yes." "Dior's poison." "Very nice." "Delicious, yes?" "Folks, please keep moving." "We're trying to keep the aisles clear." "Please keep moving." "...The Ford search for the supermodel of the year, the seventh search of this type." "Mrs. Ford is here with two of her top models, and we're interviewing candidates who hope to become the supermodel of the year." "Clients like models who will be helpful, who never say the clothes are terrible even if they are, because after all, not everything is perfect." "They... they have to make the least perfect of clothes look like a dior." "And so they can't just say," ""that's the worst thing I've ever seen."" "You know, they have to make it look good." "They have to be very, very cooperative." "And they have to be cheerful." "Nobody likes to go in and hear your troubles, you know?" "When people ask you how you feel, don't tell them if you're sick 'cause they don't really care." "Then you drop it off." "3, 2, 1." "But while the faces of the '80s stood on line, the feet of the '80s did some waiting... half an hour and round the block, all the way to third Avenue." "One of these young ladies could become the supermodel of the world." "Exciting?" "Try again." "How does this type of thing square with women's lib?" "What about men?" "Do they take you seriously?" "Or when they hear you're a model, how does their reaction change to you?" "What about, like I asked before, does this square with the women's lib movement?" "Can I have a few of you over here?" "Okay, can I have a few more women?" "Fine." "Nice to meet you, too." "I'm shari." "Shari, my name's Janet." "Hi, Janet." "So you want to be a model?" "Yes." "So you need an application." "Actually, I was in this contest." "That's how I started." "That's me." "I can't believe that." "Yeah, that's 5 years ago." "You still look great." "Thanks." "Thanks a lot." "We look at 75,000 pictures." "Well, you know, that's the average amount that we look at each contest." "What have girls become?" "Are they... are they the same?" "How are they different?" "Girls are not different from yesterday or the day before." "Everybody who's young has a hope and a dream..." "And I don't think that it's ever been any different in the history of the world." "I believe that there's a big future out there with a lot of beautiful things..." "A lot of handsome men..." "A lot of luxury." "I want a car." "I want to be with a man I love." "I want a nice home away from New York, up the Peekskills or maybe in Florida... somewhere far where no one knows me." "I want my sex change." "I want to live a normal, happy life, whether it's being married and adopting children, whether it's being famous and rich." "I want to get married in church in white." "Sometimes I sit, and I look at a magazine." "I try to imagine myself in the front cover or even inside." "I want to be a complete woman, and I want to be a professional model behind cameras in the high-fashion world." "I want so much more." "I want..." "I want my name to be a household product." "I want everybody to look at me and say, "there goes octavia."" "I want this." "This is what I want." "And I'm gonna go for it." "Oh, me!" "Amy xtravaganza!" "Amy xtravaganza!" "Swinging..." "Vogue." "Vogue." "Vogue." "Vogue." "Vogue." "Amy." "Previously, I, uh, introduced rap music along with dancing..." "To Japanese people, and they really loved it." "This, ladies and gentlemen, is voguing, a form of dance that has its roots in Harlem... a takeoff on runway modeling, which they had plenty of last night as well." "Voguing is an attitude, a style." "It's..." "It's..." "A kind of an institutionalized showing off." "But not without its entertainment value." "Something very spectacular, very important..." "Art form." "Very important." "It's just so theatrical, and the energy... oh, it's just terrific." "In addition to perhaps putting voguing in vogue, this love ball sponsored by the design industries foundation for aids raised more than $350,000 for research and housing for the homeless who have aids." "And I have never seen anything quite like it." "I'm Connie Collins, news 4, Manhattan." "Two years ago, I was working in a health-food store, still teaching and trying to perform on my own." "But now, my foot is, like, in every little doorstep that you can think of." "Um..." "I'm doing a lot of runway work, um, dancing... performing for Malcolm Mclaren, various other people, doing choreography, helping people put their shows together." "So it's going very good." "This earring that I have here, is..." "I bought this in Japan." "As you can see, it says "house couture."" "I can't read the rest of it." "It has a scissor and it has "Jr." "Gaultier, '89" on there, of course." "It's a Gaultier label emblem." "I bought it, mind you." "I have the receipt still... where, I don't know, but I bought it." "The balls have kind of gotten toned down compared to what it used to be." "Now when I tell people what it is, and they go, and it's not what they expect, you know, it's like they feel, like, a little bit of a letdown, you know?" "And they say, "it was long, it was dragged out, it was boring."" "Okay, the balls are always long and dragged out," "I really do kind of miss the street element." "I mean, but everything changes, and everything's been changing drastically." "You know, um, New York's not even the same anymore." "I always said to her, "Venus, you take too many chances."" ""You're too wild with people in the streets." "But that was Venus." "She always took a chance." "She always went into strangers' cars." "She always did what she wanted to get what she wanted." "I had a booking for a Christmas show at Sally's, and the D.T.S came to me with a picture of her murdered, and they were about to cremate her 'cause nobody had came to verify the body," "and I was the one that had to give all this information down to her family." "Actually, they found her dead after 4 days, strangled under a bed in a sleazy hotel in New York City." "I'm hungry." "and, you know, she was like my right hand, as far as I'm concerned." "I miss her." "Every time I go anywhere, I miss her." "That was my main... the main daughter of my house, in other words." "But that's part of life, as far as being a transsexual in New York City and surviving." "I always had hopes of being a big star." "And then I looked... as you get older, you aim a little lower." "And I just say, "well, yeah, you still might make an impression."" "Everybody wants to leave something behind them... some impression, some mark upon the world." "Then you think..." "You've left a mark on the world..." "If you just get through it..." "And a few people remember your name." "Then you left a mark." "You don't have to bend the whole world." "I think it's better to just enjoy it." "Pay your dues..." "And enjoy it." "If you shoot an arrow and it goes real high, hooray for you." "bring the cameras closer, Mr. Demille." "I'm ready for my closeup." "And so..." "Okay, winter sportswear..." "Preferably fur, but if not, you know, you can... natural fibers." "If... if you choose a polyester, God help you." "You know how the children are." "okay, you add "U-G" at the end of your word, right?" "But you have to take off the first letter or the first letters until you get into a vowel." "I'm not looking for anything." "I think all men are dogs." "I honestly do." "You know, every man starts barking sooner or later." "I'm a quiet person." "And if you believe that... you know, I own that island right over there, too." "They want to be with their kind." "Right." "They want to be gay." "'Cause partly, like, just like... all right, just like, again, just like a community." "In a religious community, they want to pray together a lot, right?" "Well, this gay community might want to... or... or they, like, want to be together." "All right!" "All right!" "Work at it!" "Work!" "So, this is New York City." "And this is what the gay life is about." "Right?"