"This is it." "I'm standing on the very spot where many Christians believe the world will come to an end." "It's called Megiddo." "And it's the place that the Book of Revelation says" "Jesus Christ will come down to to end the world and save the people who believe in him." "Now when Revelations was written, only God had the capacity to end the world, but now man does too, because unfortunately, before man figured out how to be rational or peaceful, he figured out nuclear weapons" "and how to pollute on a catastrophic scale." "And if it's one thing I hate more than prophecy, it's self-fulfilling prophecy." "Sometimes in your search for happiness, you ponder the meaning of your life." "Who am I?" "How did I come to be?" "Death, and then what?" "I certainly honestly believe religion is detrimental to the progress of humanity." "You know, it's just selling an invisible product." "It's too easy." "These questions about what happens when you die, they so freak people out that they will just make up any story and cling to it." "You know, things that they know can't be true, people who are otherwise so rational about everything else, and then they believe that on Sunday they're drinking the blood of a 2,000-year-old God." "I can't-- that's a dissonance in my head." "I can't" " I have to find out." "I just have to find out." "I have to try." "This is the Mount of Olives." "This is Jesus's footprints." "We're here freezing our ass off." "Is there anybody on the stage that" " does not believe in evolution?" " Yeah." "Hurry hurry hurry." " I like my hat." " You look good too." "Welcome to Bible Country!" ""Birthplace of the Virgin Mary"?" "I believe that God wants everybody to be free." "That's what I believe, and that's one part of my foreign policy." "Bill, watch out." "Boy, do I feel cheap." "I want to thank God for just blessing me so much." "Music has been a blessing from God." "Thank you, Jesus!" "You need a Holy Ghost enema right up your rear end!" "The archives are there on the fifth floor where you see the curtains." "Yeah, put that away now." "Put that away." "If you look at my stand-up from like the '80s-- that era-- early '90s," "I talked about religion, but I'm not ever questioning God." "I'm just making fun about things in the religion-- circumcision." "Circumcision-- I mean, I would've loved to have been there for the first people to hear about this." "We're used to it now, but you know, I mean," "I'm sure when Moses came down with this idea, there had to be one guy going," ""Let me get this straight."" "It was just a gentle poking fun at Him." "It's almost like I'm roasting Him." "My mother is Jewish and my father is Catholic." "That is the truth." "I was raised Catholic formally, although I must say the Jewish mind comes out even in the Catholic system." "I'll give you an example." "We used to go into confession and I would bring a lawyer in with me." "You know." "Bless me, Father, for I have sinned." "I think you know Mr. Cohen." "So let me get out some pictures." "There's me." "We weren't brought up Jewish." "I didn't even know we had that side, so it was very Catholic." "We went to church every Sunday, but I wouldn't take off the gun and really when I think back, it wasn't relevant to my life." "Superman was relevant and baseball." "We had this family where one person was Jewish and the other three were Catholic." "Now there it says "A Sunday noon, fall '66,"" "so we must've just gotten back from church, 'cause I'm in a red suit and you're choking the dog." "And I guess we got home from church and took a picture with you." "It never occurred to me to say," ""Why didn't you go to church?"" "Mom... what church do we belong to?" "I don't remember this ever coming up." "Of course you didn't go to church with us." "No, we never had a family discussion about it, never." "We never had a family discussion about that." "Every family is dysfunctional." "So you thought even this, which wasn't your religion, was better than no religion." "Well, even this only told you good things..." "I thought." "But it's just so shamelessly invented as they go along." " We can say that now." " Was anyone" "When we quit the church, I was 1 3, and I was of course thrilled, but not for any ideological reason." "I was just thrilled 'cause I hated church." "It scared me." "It was boring." "I had to get up on Sunday." "I was 1 3." "I would've worshiped anything that could've allowed me to masturbate even more than I was masturbating or get a girl." "That god I would have definitely worshipped." "Why do you remember" "Dad stopped going to church?" "We used birth control, and the church frowned on birth control." "That was the biggest sin" " you could ever commit." " Right, that would" "I think that was possibly-- he never said it to me." "And he never went back." "None of us ever did." "So now that we don't believe, where did" "Nobody said we don't believe." "We don't believe in Catholicism." "Right, but what do we believe in now?" "Come on." "You're my mother, instruct me." "I don't know the answer to that." "That's my answer." "We'll take some back roads to see" " some interesting stuff out here." " Take some back roads." "We are heading toward Raleigh, right?" "Oh, yeah, man, can't you feel it?" "Do I stand up here?" "So as I was going here," "I just jotted down a few questions that came to my mind." "Are you ever bothered by many things that are in Christianity that are not in the Bible?" "Like original sin." "Immaculate conception." "The virgin birth is only in two of the Gospels-- popes." "Are you worried that these things came not from the founders, the people that wrote this book, but from-- and this is indisputable-- but from men, from human beings who came after?" "And when I say men, I mean people with penises." "If you wanna go back to scientific proof," "I think it was determined the shroud or whatever that was went around a while back-- I didn't get involved." " Shroud of Turin?" " They took blood samples from it, and it was female blood with a male figure." "Okay, the only possible way that could happen was that the Holy Ghost impregnated Mary because it would've been female blood because it would've been the only blood flowing through her." " It's a faith thing." " But why is faith good?" "Why is believing something without evidence good?" "I don't like the way this thing's going." "I don't know what this documentary's supposed to be, but I don't like where you're going." "You start disputing my God, and you got a problem." "I don't know what you" "I'm outta here." "You do what you wanna do, but I'm outta here." " I'm just asking questions." " Okay, no problem." "When I've seen what I've seen, I know there's a God." "You can't change my mind." "Nobody can change my mind." "I walked for 30 years as a Satanist priest." "From the time I grew up, I was in Satanism." "For the last six years, that I was into Satanism," "I was a Satanist priest, okay?" " Real Satanism?" " Yes, real Satanism." "Being addicted to drugs, and running prostitutes and the women and everything that goes with that." "I walked around with rolls of money in my pocket." "I gave all that up when I got saved." "When the guy said, "Yeah, I used to do drugs." "I used to have women," and I'm thinking," " "And your problem was?"" " Right." "Let me ask you this question:" "What if we're right and you're wrong?" "We gonna make it and you ain't." "If you're being good just to save your ass just because, "Ooh, they might be right and I just want to double down here and make sure that when I get up to the pearly gates," "that St. Peter doesn't say to me," "'Sorry, asshole, you had the wrong religion." "Enjoy Hell, buh-bye."'" "That's not a good reason, and you know that." "Come on, believe in Jesus." "What do you have to lose?" "It's like the lotto." "You can't get saved if you don't play." "Yeah, you could be right." "I don't think it's very likely, but, yes, you could be right, because my big thing is I don't know." "That's what I preach." "I preach the gospel of I don't know!" "I mean that's what I'm here promoting-- doubt." " That's my product." " Right." "The other guys are selling certainty, not me." "I'm on the corner with doubt." "So, Dr. Collins, you are a brilliant brilliant scientist, the head of the Human Genome Project." "Now here's what's so puzzling is that you are the one scientist-- the one famous scientist anyway-- who's also religious." "Explain that to me." "I would argue that if you look at the evidence, the historical evidence of Christ's existence is overwhelming." "What evidence?" "I mean, I've never even heard anyone propose that there's evidence." "There's been proof that there's a Jesus." " That's been proven." " That hasn't been proven." "How you figure that one?" "When I read the New Testament, it reads to me as the record of eyewitnesses who put down what they saw." "You know they weren't eyewitnesses." " They were close to that." " No." "Within a couple of decades of eyewitnesses." " Okay." " Would that stand up in a laboratory as absolute foolproof evidence that something happened?" "You are setting up a standard for proof that I think would really be an almost impossible standard to meet." "No gospel tells us what he was doing when he was a young man." "You know, we see Jesus as an infant and then we kind of pick up the story when he's 30." "I think Jesus was probably an awkward teenager-- big Jewfro, bad at sports." "Here I am!" "The records we have are all gospels." "Gospels are not history." "Gospel writers never met Jesus, neither did St. Paul." "No one who wrote about Jesus ever met him." "How can you go back into the prophets and the prophets specifically specifies that certain things" "Well, first of all, the New Testament came after the Old Testament." "We agree to that?" "I agree to that, but that doesn't mean anything." "All it means is the people that wrote the New Testament read the Old Testament and then made the prophesies fit." "They can't make it fit if something didn't happen." "Of course they can." "Then you're saying the Bible is fictitious?" " I am." " Can't be." "I am." "We do all know that those texts don't match." "Yeah, sure." "Would you expect them to?" "I'm surprised that things that are very important to the story like the virgin birth isn't in all four of them." "Wouldn't you really expect that kind of discordance when you're thinking about the way in which these documents came into being?" "But you'd think if you were one of Christ's biographers, that would be sort of an important thing not to leave out." "Oh, God, he was also born of a virgin." "They don't notice the virgin birth." "You know, I think that is something if you were any sort of reporter you'd put into the story." "What editor looks at the facts and goes, "Yeah, but take out the thing about the virgin birth." "That's not interesting."" "I think being without faith is something that's a luxury for people who were fortunate enough to have a fortunate life." "You know, you go to prison and you hear a guy say, "You know what, buddy?" "I got nothing but Jesus in here."" "I completely understand that." "I think not having faith is a luxury sometimes." "If you're in a foxhole, you probably have a lot of faith, right?" " Mm-hmm." " So I get that." "But you guys aren't dumb." "You're smart people." "How can smart people-- how can they believe in the talking snake, people living to 900 years old and the virgin birth?" "And you know, that's my question." "You guys have your own questions." "Pray for me." "Father, in the name of Jesus and by the power of the Holy Spirit, we ask right now, Lord, as we lift up Bill to You, Father, that You can answer his questions that we can't answer." "Father, we thank You right now for the opportunity that has come today, that we may voice our opinions and hear others." "So we ask You, Lord, to touch and feel wisdom right now in the name of Jesus." "And we thank You for it in Jesus's name, amen." "Thank you for being Christlike, and not just Christian." "Okay." "Hey, my wallet!" "No, I'm kidding." "You see so many nice people trying to make it about something good and yet it turns into not just corrupt, but, like, fucking-little-kids corrupt and burning-people-alive cor" "I mean, really evil shit." "I'd like to see 10,000 people give $10,000." "Write your biggest check and send it in." "We got people on welfare that's got enough faith to make a $1,000 vow" " and paying it!" " I want to be in the green, Lord!" "What I'm about to say is revelation." "I got it on DVD." "And I have it on DVD." "And you need to get this." "Hallelujah!" "Hallelujah!" "Reverend." "Is that what I call you?" "No, just call me... doctor." " Doctor?" " Yeah." "All right, Doc." "First of all, I have to tell you, when I heard that you were in Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes," "I was like, "That's my man."" "And it's funny, because that lyric can be interpreted religiously." ""If you don't know me by now." Right?" "I mean, you must've thought of that." "The song did go platinum." "Teddy Pendergrass, who led the song, he was ordained a minister when he was 10 years old." "What do you think it says about religion and how serious it is if you can be a minister when you're 10?" "But there is a comparison to be made between musical stars, rock stars and religious figures." "They very often both dress" " in elaborate costumes..." " Mm-hmm." "...that get people's attention." "People in a congregation must know that the outfit was financed by their donations, and it doesn't seem to bother them." "I always dress well." "I see!" "Are those gators?" "Those are lizards." " Lizards?" " Yes." " What do they run?" " They don't run." "They crawl." "And I see you got a lot of bling." "I like gold." "The people want you to look well." "That's what pimps say about their women." "I was told by one of the greatest pimps that ever lived-- his name is called God-- that if you know what you got, then you ain't got much." "Jesus dressed very well." "Oh, come on." " Where is the Biblical evidence?" " Wait a minute." "When he was born, they brought him gold." "They brought him gold." "He was not poor." "So my image of Jesus as a man who championed the poor and walked around in simple garb, that's wrong?" "It was linen." "It was fine linen." " Really?" " Yeah." "But Jesus constantly preaches against rich people." "The Bible does not speak against being rich." " Jesus does." "Very plainly." " No no." "Jesus was very very against the rich." "He never preached against being poor." "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for" "No, he preached against being rich." "No no no, he said that it's better for a rich man-- than a rich man to enter" "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom." "Okay, but now things like houses and cars and clothes and money, they come as a result of my seeking God first." "I don't remember that in the New Testament specifically." "But it's there." "I remember it." "The houses, the cars and the clothes, they'll come." "Yeah, money comes, money happens, you know." "Well, money happens for you because they're giving it up to you." "You're not giving it up to them." "Let me set the record straight." "I do not receive a salary from the church." "I do not take a salary from the church." " You take it right out of the pot." " No no no." "It's such a powerful position." "I mean, you hold people's greatest hopes and dreams in the palm of your hand, really." "Certainly, some of the young women must get a crush on you." "Probably." "I would too if I was out there." "If I was a woman, I'd probably have a crush on me, too." "That's keepin' it real." "Now I can advise other young men about women, because I've been there." "I had a young man who was about to go crazy over a woman." "He was about to kill himself, you know?" "I said, "That kind of passion, you should have for God."" "I said, "Turn that to God and see what happens."" "St. Paul, for example, whom I know you compare yourself to." "People do." "But he famously only wore on his back the clothes that he owned." " Should I assume that this is" " He was always on the run." "This is your only $2,000 suit?" "The gentleman who made this suit for me owns a clothing store." "Mr. Kane, you in the house?" "The prices that I get my clothes for-  you know, I'm blessed in that area." " Yes, you are." "I'm more blessed than I've ever been all the days of my life." "And the owner is a Muslim, which" " I came out of Islam." "I know, I think it's very interesting that you're a Christian now, you were a Muslim and when you get your clothes, you buy them like a Jew." "And action!" "That's right-- behind me and above me is the original Twin Cities," "Sodom and Gomorrah." "Apparently, it was a pretty wicked place." "How wicked?" "Well let's just say that what happened in Gomorrah, stayed in Gomorrah." "That is until God got wind of it, so he sent two angels to investigate." "Now the angels went to the house of the one godly man in town" " Lot." "And the townspeople tried to rape them." "Now Lot, not wanting his town to get the reputation as the kind of place that would rape angels, offered up to the mob his own daughters to rape." "And he was the good guy in town." "Which brings me to this question:" "If I ever had to swear an oath, why would I want to put my hand on the King James Bible?" "I think I could find more morality in the Rick James Bible." "God hates fags." "The Constitution does not grant to homosexuals the right to perform sodomy." " I'm a monk." " A monk." "Franciscan." "What do you think of homosexuality?" "Do you think that's-- the Bible is against it." "No, the Bible is not against it." "The Bible's not against homosexuality?" "If you are born homosexual, you are to stay there." " You have to be happy." " But that's what the Bible says?" "What the Bible means to say, yeah." "Oh, what the Bible means to say!" "Now that's a good book." "It preaches the rock-solid truth." "You are faggots!" "I don't hate them." "God hates them." " Hey, Bill." " How are you?" "Nice to meet you." "Okay." "Okay." "So of course, the reason why we're here is because you're" "I guess we would say, ex-gay." "You used to be gay and then you married someone who used to be a lesbian." "And you have three children, and I guess the jury's out on them." "Okay, and would you say it's just like any other marriage of 14 years-- you never have sex?" "Oh, funny." "Ha ha." "Got that." "I don't classify myself as ex-gay, you know?" "I'm a heterosexual guy who dealt with some homosexuality." "Okay, so the people who come here are people who are wanting to do what you did." "They want to reform their life and lead a heterosexual life." "But I will be honest with you." "The reality's a lot of people come here and go right back into whatever they came from." " Because they're gay!" " I believe that it's sin." "Excuse me, but don't you have it, no pun intended, ass-backwards?" "Meaning?" "Meaning homosexuality is something that occurs in nature." "I was out bird watching, but I'd rather watch you." "Why don't you come over and get some?" "Man is who wrote the Bible." "Nature made gay people." "Nobody's born gay." "There's no scientific or" "Really?" "Have you ever met Little Richard?" "We can look at creation and say, "What's the normal order?"" "A man has a penis." "A woman has a vagina." "Let's just be blunt." "There's no scientific data that proves that anyone is-- there's no gay gene." "And you also discovered the gay gene?" "Yes." "This is all coming from the Bible which you believe..." " Right." " ...to be the word of God." " I do." " All of the proscriptions against homosexuality come from the Old Testament." "Jesus never said a word about homosexuality." "And if it's so important, why didn't he ever bring it up?" "We could pick lots of little things that he didn't specifically talk about." " But this is a big thing." " Let me stop this whole thing." "You know, I'm not sure what your documentary is about, but if it's to basically refute the word of God, then I'm not interested in doing your interview, okay?" " Well, I" " I think that obviously you don't have the same relationship with Jesus Christ that I do." "But what is your explanation for the millions and millions of people around the world who are" " leading homosexual lives..." " Well, it's not millions." "...have no interest in anyone of the opposite sex?" "Are they all faking just to piss off Jesus?" "They didn't choose this." "They didn't desire it." "Right, they were born gay." "No, they weren't born that way." "It's because of the insecurity within theirselves." "It takes a lot of security to walk out of the house with assless chaps." " They're not happy, most of them." " They're called gay." "They took the word." "Some of them look positively thrilled." "No, they are people who are really not complete in who they are as men or women." "That's a pretty big judgment for a Christian." " It's not a judgment." " That's not a judgment?" "That you are sitting here telling these people who you don't even know that they're incomplete because they're not like you?" "I mean, it's not the people you suspect that are gay, that are gay." "People like the Reverend Ted Haggard..." "Moral purity is better than immorality." "...who kept meeting homosexual prostitutes in a hotel room and having gay sex with speed." "Evangelicals have the best sex life of any other group." " Good Morning, Duane!" " But he wasn't gay?" "I already answered that." "I don't believe that anybody is gay." "I don't know, but honestly, if I just saw you in a bar or something, I would say-- and don't take this the wrong way" "I would say, "Yeah, I think that guy is gay."" "You're good looking." "You're neat, you know." " You don't look like me." " Meaning?" "Meaning..." " All right, thank you." " Can I give you a hug?" " Yes!" " I hug everybody, so can I give you a hug?" " Thanks." " Thank you very much." "Hey, you didn't have a hard-on there, did you?" "Nope, sorry." "Can't do that." "That was good, though." "When I was 17, my first girlfriend dumped me, and I was sad in a way I'd never been sad." "You know, your first dumping is the worst." "And at that point, you're very vulnerable to any sort of connection with, you know" "I didn't get like Jesus-religious, but I did think a force out there was communicating to me through song lyrics or-- numerology I was very interested in for a while." "You said you were groping for something at that time." "You know, you make up an imaginary friend who loves you, is sympathetic to you and has a plan for you." "It's much more important." "He didn't have to love me, God," "He just had to be working for me." "You know, He's like an agent." "So you are an ex-Jew for Jesus." "That is correct." "Now what made you to decide to be a follower of Christ?" "What brought Christ into your life?" "Back in '75," "I went to Michigan State University." " $2,700?" " Yeah, it's pricey." "Boy, I wonder what Madonna without the child runs you." "So getting back to my story, I could ask God to do things in the name of Jesus and they would happen." "So I can't even recall all the little miracles He did, but He proved to me that He was real and He was there." "They were so miraculous and you can't remember what they were?" "There were so many of them and they were little things." " Give me an example." " One example I can remember was" "I was at a party." "There was a guy who was working with Jews for Jesus, and I asked him, "Can I get a drink of water?"" "And he says, "You know what?" "Here's a glass, stick your hand out the window and pray for rain."" "I didn't like the attitude." "I said okay, and I stuck my hand out the window and it started pouring rain." "Pouring so bad that people couldn't leave the party." "To me, that's a miracle." "You don't have to believe it," " but I know between me and God" " It is pretty lame." " But you asked." " I asked, but I'm just saying" " that's my reaction to your answer." " But that's just one of many things." "I live a life of miracles." "No, you live your life with the same sort of mundane coincidences that happen to everybody in the world." "It's not like, you know, if it rained frogs," "I would say you had a point." "But it rains, and it stops raining." "Well, when was the last time you asked for rain and it starting raining within 10 seconds?" "I don't know." "I don't ever ask for rain." "But if I asked for it really bad and it started to rain," "I wouldn't think it was because I asked for it." "I would think because it sometimes rains." "God is not that busy where He can't spend time listening to you when you really want to talk to Him, anytime." "If Santa Claus can hit every house in the world" " in one night" " I don't believe in Santa Claus." "Of course not, that's ridiculous." "That's one man flying all around the world and dropping presents down a chimney." "That's ridiculous." "One man hearing everybody murmur to him at the same time, that I get." "And you know what else was very confusing to me?" "I remember vividly was Santa Claus" " and Jesus." " You were so mad at us." " Oh, yes." " So mad at you, why?" "Oh, when" "When you realized there was no Santa Claus." "And then when I found out there was no Jesus, boy, was I pissed." "You spoke before in certitude." "you'll go to a better place." "I know I'll be with God." "I'll be with Jesus." "And that's a better place." "Even if it was in a garbage can, which I know it won't be, but even if it was, just the fact that I'm with Jesus, to me, is good." " It's a better place." " It's a better place." "Then why don't you kill yourself?" "Because God still has a mission for me here." "Oh, I see." "I'm thinking of Jonah." "God sent Jonah on a mission." "When did the part of the story come when Jonah lived in the whale?" "It was a great fish." "It's one of my favorite nonsense stories," "Jonah living inside of the whale." "And their answer unfailingly is" ""The Bible doesn't say whale." "It says big fish."" "Oh, yeah, big fish, that makes" "I'm sorry l was obsessing on that it was a whale." "It's a big fish." "Of course you could live for three days in a big fish." "A tuna." "They do it all the time in Japan." "They have tuna spas." "You go for three days." "They pamper you, oils." "You come out of that tuna feeling fantastic." "You smell like pussy, but you feel fantastic." "This man lived inside of a fish for three days?" "Miraculously, yes." "Steve, Steve, Steve." "You don't believe in miracles." " That doesn't mean they don't exist." " Of course not!" "I'm not 10!" "He lived in a fish." "Come on." "Your bar on miracles is pretty low, I gotta tell you, bro." "Well, whatever." "Two things that are completely incompatible are Christianity as Jesus taught it" " and nationalism..." " Right." "Exactly." "...and yet people always say God and country." "Jesus would never-- you know, people who are such good Christians-- in one breath you'll hear them say something like," ""Well, you gotta take care of your own first." "I know people overseas have trouble, but you gotta take"-- that is not a message I can ever see the Jesus in the Bible, even when he was in a bad mood, would say." "I'm gonna vote Bible." "It's time for God's people to come out of the closets, out of the churches and change America!" "Unless you and I do what God wants us to do, he'll go to some other country." "God, forgive America!" "I would probably have to say yes, that the Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation." "We have, of course, "In God We Trust" on our money." "The Senate will come to order." "The chaplain will lead the Senate in prayer." "How did this country get to be a Christian nation?" "I've read a lot of quotes from all the Founding Fathers." "There are a lot of quotes that explicitly say we're not a Christian nation." "And Jefferson's a particularly interesting case." "Didn't he write his own Bible which divorced the New Testament from what he considered the unnecessary magic, bells and whistles?" "He took the Gospels, took out all of Jesus's miracles and took out all of Jesus's statements that claimed divinity, and put out a new book called "The Faith and Moral Teachings of Jesus of Nazareth."" "We tend to lionize these guys and think of them all as the 1 2 Apostles plus the Founding Fathers, like they're in the same club or something." "When in fact, these men understood very well that there was a difference between being Christian and being American." " Right." " In Jefferson's age, fewer people went to church less often." "Do you think that there are a lot of people who feel the way you do, but are afraid to speak out?" "Absolutely." "Are you kidding?" "Yes, I think it is the great untapped minority in this country." "In the last survey," "who now say they are absolutely unaffiliated with any religion, don't want to be in a religion, just don't go near me with religion." "a huge minority." "It's bigger than Jews, blacks, homosexuals, NRA members, lots of people you could name who have lobbies that get everything they want or are at least are in the debate." "You want me to kinda angle like this or straight ahead?" "Just as natural as possible to Bill." "So you've described yourself as an Evangelical Christian." "You did a campaign ad where you said the most important lessons in life are in this book right here, meaning the Bible." "Everyone in politics likes to brag that they're a person of faith." "Why is faith good?" "Faith has a way of softening people." "For example, if you look at the teachings of Jesus, he's very forgiving." "He also said, "If a man doesn't abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers, and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned."" "Right." "So?" "I do think, 'cause I'm a Christian, that Jesus is the way to be reconciled." "And I do believe the actual literacy of that story." "We'll let God sort out all the details of that on Judgment Day." "What about the 10 Commandments?" "So many politicians talk about the 10 Commandments." "Are they really the 10 most" " important moral" " Are these the 10 suggestions?" "The 10 recommendations?" "But it's not really a wide list of 10." "The first four are all about just worshipping God and basically that he's a jealous God, and he doesn't want you to have any other gods." "The only two that are really laws are don't steal and don't kill." "Why is this the wisest group of 10?" "It doesn't include child abuse." "It doesn't include don't torture." "It doesn't include a lot of things-- rape-- that I think if we were making a list today, we would probably include." "Society is so different today and our culture is so radically different today." "That's what I'm asking." "We're in a different culture." "Can you think of anything else that we still cleave to from the Bronze Age?" "Well..." "Basically, murder is against the law in every country in the world." "But wouldn't we have come to that even without religion?" "Don't you think people would have gotten together and said," ""You know what?" "Let's not slaughter each other" " and not take each other's stuff."" " I don't know." "There's been more killing in the name of "My God."" "You think maybe sort of indigously or just by our DNA, we somehow know that killing another person is wrong?" "I'm not sure that that's the case." "Really, you need God to decide not to kill each other?" "Well, you can look back at more primitive cultures, and they were constantly at war." "We are now, among industrialized, modern nations, the most religious nation." "A recent study found that among 32 countries, more people in this country doubted evolution than any other country on that list, except, I think, it was Turkey." "In the US, we have freedom of religion." "I think most of the countries on that list do have freedom of religion." "Well, that's interesting." "Do you believe in evolution?" "You know my" " I don't know." "Clearly the scientific community's a little divided on some of the specifics of that and I understand that." " I don't think they are." " No no-- well" "I think they pretty much agree." "I don't know how it all happened." "I'm certainly willing to accept the scientific premise." "It couldn't possibly have been Adam and Eve 5,000 years ago with a talking snake and a garden, could it?" "Well, it could've possibly been that." "Come on." "See, this is my problem." "I mean, you're a senator." "You are one of the very few people who are really running this country." "It worries me that people are running my country who think-- who believe in a talking snake." "You don't have to pass an IQ test to be in the Senate, though." "As you first come into the Creation Museum, there's going to be a sense of "This is something really big."" "This is something awe-inspiring, something great here." "We can answer the questions of the skeptics that attack the Bible's history." "We admit that we start from the Bible here to teach them how to think." "Really, in a nutshell, we're saying, the Bible's true from Genesis to Revelation." "We're building the whole place for about $27 million." "I have many people say to me," ""As a Christian, can't you believe in evolution?"" "I say, "Well, you got a problem." "God made a man and a woman."" "If you believe in evolution, the woman had to come from an ape woman." "All right, but you're so damned ugly." "This is what we call the main hall here." "Immediately, people see dinosaurs and people together, which is very different to the idea of the evolutionists who say dinosaurs died out" "70 million ago or so, and so they didn't live with humans." "They see an animatronic dinosaur over here." "Two animatronic baby T-Rexes and two animatronic children." "It's basically just to give people a wow factor as they come in here." "How to share your faith effectively and Biblically, to be able to reason with people, learn to circumnavigate or go around the person's intellect." "There's plenty of people who would say, "Well, it's just my faith."" "But that's not good enough for you." "You say, "No." "We can basically reconcile the science with what's in Genesis."" "We're an organization that-- to put it in a nutshell-- is telling people that the Bible's history is true, its history beginning in Genesis." "Scientists line up overwhelmingly on one side of this issue." "It would have to be an enormous conspiracy going on between scientists of all different disciplines in all different countries to have such a consensus." "That doesn't move you?" "No, not at all, because from a Biblical perspective," "I understand why the majority would not agree with the truth." "Man is a sinner." "Man is rebelling against his creator." "All these scientists are sinners?" "Well..." "We have been talking to so many religious people and many of them believe the earth is 5,000 years old." "If you're a scientist, you can't accept that." "Now you recently were the director of the Vatican Observatory." "A Vatican astronomer." "It's one of those terms like "gay Republican"-- you know, you just don't expect it." " I'm not getting into that." " No no no, I'm not asking you to." "It's not that the church has the idea, you know, they're gonna train us up so we can be the first ones out there to baptize those extraterrestrials before the Mormons get at 'em." "The reason is simply historical facts." "John Paul ll, for instance, said evolution in the neo-Darwinian sense is no longer a mere hypothesis." "I mean, he said that." "It's in writing." "I still don't understand why it's important for there to have to have been a situation on earth where a man co-existed with dinosaurs." "Only really in "The Flintstones"..." "Is someone talking about me?" "...and that Raquel Welch movie does man ever co-exist with dinosaurs." "Why is that important for your salvation or your morality?" "If you're saying this part over here, it says God made land animals and man on the same day is not true, then ultimately, why should I believe this bit over here?" "The Christian Scriptures were written between about 2,000 years before Christ to about 200 years after Christ." "That's it." "Modern science came to be with Galileo up through Newton, up through Einstein." "What we know as modern science, okay, is in that period." "How in the world could there be any science in scripture?" "There cannot be." "Just the two historical periods are separated by so much." "The Scriptures are not teaching science." "It's very hard for me to accept, not just a literal interpretation of scripture, but a fundamentalist approach to religious belief." "It's kind of a plague." "It presents itself as science and it's not." "God is an infinite God who is working in ways" " we don't always understand." " You don't think that's a cop-out?" "He is God." "Are you God?" "No." "We went to church every Sunday." "My sister and I went to Catechism, which is Catholic, you know, like Hebrew school for papists." "It was like war." "It was vast stretches of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror." "I'm in the Vatican." "Buongiorno!" "I know what you're thinking." "I'm standing in front of a green screen at a studio in Burbank, California, and they digitalized the Vatican in behind me." "No no, that's really the Vatican." "I ought to know." "I just got thrown out of it." "See, I wanted to interview the Pope, but I was willing to settle for a cardinal or a monsignor or the Flying Nun-- really anybody-- but apparently I've been on the Catholic shit list for quite a while." "But that's their loss, 'cause now I'm gonna say what I really think, which is mainly:" "Does that look anything like anything Jesus Christ had in mind?" "When you look at a building like that, a giant palace, does it seem at odds with the message of the founder?" "Well, certainly." " Well, thank you." " I mean, that's obvious." "It really is obvious, isn't it?" "But does it bother you?" "Well, I mean-- well, yes it does." "I wouldn't-- if I were the boss," "I wouldn't be living there." "I mean Jesus would be probably out in some barracks here in a suburb of Rome, got it?" "Do you ever get so fed up you want to take the collar and go..." " Well, I don't wear a collar anyway." " ..."That's it, Captain." "Take my badge and my collar."" "I read about 10 books recently-- the rationality of religion, and everyone's saying it's stupid." "You know what's gonna happen to them." " No, what's gonna happen?" " They're gonna be roasting in hell." "Come on, roasting." "That's the old Catholic thing." "That's what they taught me." "Yeah, I know, that hell business." "Well, come on, the standard doctrine that I was taught as a kid" "Yeah, that's all gone." "That's all finished." "But that's not fair." " Yeah, pfft!" " The date of Jesus's birth really wasn't established until 349 A.D." "Oh, yeah... because he might've been born on July 3rd." "These are all nice stories, you know." " And that doesn't bother you, either?" " That bothers me too." "I mean, when everybody's, "Ooh, we have to have midnight mass because Jesus was born on midnight on 25th of"-- this is all nonsense." " You're a maverick, aren't you?" " I'm not a maverick." "You're Father Maverick." "You do things your own way." "When you add up all the saints and all the angels and archangels and super-duper angels-- there's God, the Father, God the Son, the Holy Ghost," "Mother Mary-- it does start to look like it's not quite the monotheistic religion that it's" "Oh, I understand." "Like we have mini-gods." "Yeah, well, it does seem like that, if people pray to a" "Well, yeah, but some people just don't understand this." "You probably are-- you don't follow things-- but they had a survey here in Italy, you know, and they said, "In a crisis, what kind of saints do you pray to?" Got it?" "You know who's the sixth on the list?" "Jesus Christ." "The sixth?" "He's the sixth man that the Italians call upon when they have problems." "Isn't that neat?" " That's very interesting." " Talk about Cafeteria Catholics." "Pfft!" "So how do you convince people of what's the true faith?" "You don't, forget it." "You just have to live and die with their stupid ideas." "I'm sorry." "What are you gonna do?" "You can go to a pitch meeting at a movie studio and go," ""Okay, there's a spaceman who zaps a virgin and he gives birth to a son who's also him, who then goes on a suicide mission."" "I wonder what people would say about that." "Yeah, that is actually a great pitch." "It has so many elements that they like, because they love suicide missions." "They love violence, and Hollywood loves something it's never seen before-- a virgin." "Hey, Shalom." "We're so glad to have you here." "Just come and get blessed." "These are here to teach God's word." "We're in a spiritual warfare." "We don't push our beliefs on people, but we do make them available." " Have you ever had a Muslim person?" " Yes, definitely." "People from Gaza Strip come." "We get many people who come here say," ""We've come every year to Florida and we've done the tourist things and all and we enjoy those." "We wish we had seen this first,"" "because their experience here was so meaningful." "Do you think if-- when you were a kid-- they transposed the Bible stories with the fairy tales, you'd know the difference as an adult?" " My name is Eve." " I'm Adam." "This place is amazing." "If they told you Jack and the Beanstalk was religion and that a man who lived in a whale was in a fairy-tale book... you think when you got to be an adult, you'd be defending the one instead of the other?" "So you're saying that the Bible's a fairy tale?" "God took my rib like this and began to whittle it like this and blow on it..." "and then" "Saved means believing in Jesus Christ" " as the only begotten Son of God." " Not for me, it don't." "What about the Muslims?" "Many Muslims are saved right now." "I don't get it." "I pray in your lifetime you do." "Jesus came through a Jew." "He was not the seed of man." "He came through a Jewish woman, but no man had ever touched her." "No flesh had ever touched her." "He was the seed of God." "You want me to lean up against the tomb or something or you want casual or-- okay." "Did I give you my cell phone?" "Oh, I left my cell phone, right?" "Just want to make sure." "Testing one two, check, testing." "How you doing, Bill?" "God bless you." " Hi." " Seen you around." " Welcome to our world." " I've seen you around." "Now is this your tomb?" "Is this a real rock?" "No, it's just cement." "They just kind of cemented it in there." "So when you go out to dinner, people recognize you?" "All the time, yeah." "I think you get a little bit of that, too." "But they don't think I'm the Lord." "You must really be" "Why do you think people come here?" "'Cause Disneyland's too smutty?" "I personally haven't been to the Holy Land, so this was an awesome experience for me when I walked on the property." " I was like, "Wow, this is cool."" " Let me ask you questions" " about your business..." " Yes." "...or really the Jesus business." "God is super powerful." " He can do anything." " Sure." "Why doesn't he just obliterate the devil and therefore get rid of evil in the world?" " He will." " He will?" "What's he waiting for?" " End times." " But why play it out like that?" " Why make it a game?" " Well, it's not necessarily a game." "A day is like a thousand years in God's eyes, it says in the Bible." "If you wanna look at it-- just like two days ago, Christ died." "But I know that he is so far beyond any of our ways, that he can work the worst situation for his good." "What was the Holocaust?" "Why was that good?" "You know, God had a plan for that." "Maybe it's to cause" "I wonder if you would have thought that if you were one of the people" " being pushed into an oven." " Well, you know what?" "It's like trying to explain to an ant how a TV works." "That's" " God's ways are so much higher than ours." "There's no way you can understand that." "We need to stop the interview for just a moment, please." " Nice to see you." " Senior manager of public relations." " Hi, Les, I'll be right with you." " Hi." "Sure." "I'm not afraid of the piranha women." "When he came, he said, "I come not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it."" "You boil all those Levitical laws down to two things:" "No other God is before me, Bill, and love the Lord with all your heart." "But, Jesus, having no other gods before you, that's not moral." "There's nothing moral about that." "It's just something a jealous god would do." "It does say that our God is a jealous god." "But your God is jealous?" "That seems so unGodlike that God would have such a petty human emotion." "I know people who have gotten over jealousy," " let alone God." " There's two sides to the coin." "He's a just God and he's also a merciful God." "No, he spends the first five books of the Bible wiping out people." "That's what he chose to do." "His ways are higher than ours, Bill." " Maybe our thinking should be higher." " That's a good point." "God has got this God-sized hole in your life." "You can fit that with any position-- drugs, sex, whatever you want-- it is not gonna fill it." " Can I try?" " You can try all you want." "You're gonna end up hurting yourself, damaging yourself and burning yourself up." "I thought Christ was about not judging people." " That's true." " Isn't that a judgment there?" "You don't know me and you're telling me I need to fill a hole in my heart" " with drugs and sex." " No, I'm not talking about you." "I'm saying anyone in general." "See, if I was God, I would create people without the hole to begin with." "Have you ever had a little voice in the back of your mind say something?" " We've all had that." " That's called the Holy Spirit." " That's not God." "That's you." " That's called the Holy Spirit." " Feel this wind right now?" " Yeah." "Okay, where is it?" "You don't know, right?" " Yeah, it's called wind." " Okay, that's like the Holy Spirit." "It's a monotheistic religion, but there's three of them." "Just like water can be ice, steam and water." "I see." "It's different forms, different shapes for the different purposes." "The analogy that Jesus at the amusement park said yesterday was brilliant, about the Trinity is like water." "It can be steam." "It can be ice." "It can be liquid." "Wow, that is-- boy, that stopped me in my tracks for a second, you know?" "That's just a brilliant analogy." "When you think about it for two minutes, it's still complete bullshit." "There this space God and he's himself and he sent himself on a suicide mission." "He's a God, but he has a kid." "He's a single parent." "It's just silly, but when you put it in the water analogy," "I can see that, you know, those ladies there, when they heard that the first time, they were like, done." "Sold." "Oh, you had me at ice cube." "Moving on." "Does it ever bother you that the story of a man who was born of a virgin was resurrected?" "Your bio was something that was going around the Mediterranean for at least 1,000 years." "We've got Krishna who was in India 1,000 years before Christ." "Krishna was a carpenter, born of a virgin, baptized in a river." "Are you saying that was written in history?" "That was written down in history, is that what you're saying?" "Absolutely, there's the Persian god Mithra, 600 years before Christ." "Born December 25th, performed miracles, resurrected on the third day, known as the Lamb, the Way, the Truth, the Light, the Savior, Messiah." "Stop!" "Blasphemer!" "All I know is that I don't go by that hearsay." "I go by the word of God." "I know that's why I believe." " Well, I believe it because it's truth." " Believe it, yes." "But there's a difference between truth and what you believe." "In the Bible it tells us that all things are possible with God, okay?" "Study the religions of the Mediterranean region for a thousand years before." "Many of the gods were born on December 25th." " No, it's not." " It's not a new one." "It's funny you should bring that up because of course in "Star Wars:" "Episode I-- The Phantom Menace,"" "Anakin is born to a virgin." "People see that and say, "Wait a second." "Where have we heard that before?" That's not original." " But the Jesus story wasn't original." " How so?" "Let me ask you a question." "Let's say, if you take the side" " that this is all made up..." " I do." "...what if you're wrong?" "What if you're wrong?" """ Like a lamb came the Messiah """ """ Christ the King """ """ And he chose to walk that road """ """ Out of his love """ """ For you """ """ And me. """ "Was Jesus a sinner?" "One master." "One word." "I am your master." "Who do we put away in the asylums?" "Xenu brought us here 75 million years ago, stacked us around volcanoes and blew them up with an H-bomb." "We are older than the universe." "You have to rid yourself of the implants from the extraterrestrial dictators!" " Get an E-Meter." "Yes, get an E-Meter!" " An E-meter?" "Audit yourself." "How do you people expect to get to the next level?" "I'm not making the rules." "Aw..." "You know, Scientologists..." "And right, you're like, "Oh, yeah, that's some crazy shit." "Okay." "Jesus with the virgin birth and the dove and the snake who talked in the garden, that's cool." "But the Scientologists, they're the crazy ones."" "That's not true." "That-- that-- I don't have any idea of what you're talking about." "But it has something to do with making sure that we're born with a defect, so that the souls of ours are infected with aliens..." "Thank you." "...because the cure?" "Scientology." "They're all crazy." "Yes, the religions do get even crazier." "They have to to keep up." "They keep raising the bar." "After you've done the virgin birth, you know, where do you go?" "We're not getting the top?" " We got the top." " Oh, okay." "That's the Mormon Temple behind me." "To be a Mormon is to believe some really crazy stuff, crazy even by the standards of the big religions." "When you're the new kid on the block" "Thank you." "That was helpful." "You're the new kid on the block and all the good crazy has already been picked over, so you kind of have to up the ante." "Oh." "God damn it." "Not while I'm in the middle of it." "Well, we do have it." "Boy, a lot of people came" " out of the woodwork." " Yeah." "So did you guys get anybody from the church to talk to?" "Well, if you count getting thrown off the property" " "talked to."" " That's probably better." "We'd like you to "Meet the Mormons."" "In the founding scripture, you open up the Doctrine of Covenants, you read the autobiography of Joseph Smith." "He quotes Jesus Christ as telling him that every other creed on earth is, quote," ""an abomination." An abomination." "I mean, that's not a very ecumenical statement." "You're talking about things that, I think, at some level you sense just do not make sense." "I'm glad you said that because I read some of the tenets of Mormonism, like "God lives on a planet near the star of Kalob."" " Kolob." " Kolob." "God the Father who's a physical man with a body of flesh and bone is probably about 6' tall, lives on a place called Kolob, had sexual relations with Mary-- remember he's a man." ""Jesus Christ was conceived by God the father having actual sex with Mary."" "Mary said, "If this is what God wants," "I'll be glad to do His will."" ""Dark skin is a curse from God, but if you're sufficiently righteous, a dark-skinned person can become light-skinned."" "According to the Book of Mormon, after his resurrection, Jesus came to the Americas to preach to the Indians." ""That American Indians are actually a lost tribe of Israel."" "They're lost Jews." "And also the idea that Christianity is American," "I think, is an amazing entitlement to a people who are always trying to meld God and country." "The Garden of Eden was in Missouri according to Mormonism." "The new Jerusalem will be there." "Branson, I'm hoping." "I've also heard that the Mormon Church baptizes dead people." "You can be baptized for about 50 people, 100 people that've died." "And so you just get dunked about 50 to 100 times." "That's baptism for the dead." "Caffeine is evil." "That magic underwear can protect you." "And that you need a secret password to get into heaven." "Everyone must stand at the final judgment before Joseph Smith, Jesus and Elohim." "This isn't an easy religion." "Why do you think it is that so few people do what you have done and leave the church?" "The moment you acknowledge to yourself that Joseph Smith did not tell the truth about his experiences and his achievements, you just committed social suicide." " Family and friends..." " Family and friends." "...will-- you're off the deep end." "Dr. Andrew Newberg, nice to meet you." "I've finally met someone who's studied... neurotheology." "This is getting very close to something I always say, which is that religion is a neurological disorder." "What does the brain look like when it's hopped up on God?" "We see a lot of different colors, which help us to-- tell us what the activity is in the brain and what we have found is that there are some very specific changes when people are actually meditating or praying" "or even speaking in tongues, which was our last study." "In the name of Jesus, you've been made whole by the power of God." " Speaking in tongues?" " We studied people speaking in tongues." "They're just babbling, though, right?" "They're not really speaking in a language they don't know." "It's not an actual language, but what's" "Just bullshit, Doc, come on." "Isn't that something?" "I love you." "So you would agree that even if a billion people believe something, it can still be ridiculous?" " Absolutely." " But the Jews, I mean, they're-- excuse me, Jewish friends-- but they're as cuckoo as anybody, especially the really Orthodox ones." "You are one of the few Jewish people in the world who does not believe in the state of Israel." "You do not think the state" " of Israel should exist." " Correct." " Okay." " God gave us the land of Israel." "On Mount Sinai where we made this bond with God," "He said, "I'm giving you the land, but I'm stipulating-- very clearly stipulating-- you must be on a certain level of holiness."" "You will see it clearly that we were sent out of the land." "So basically you're saying that the Jewish people have not been holy enough to deserve the land of Israel." "God understands what is good for us, what is bad for us..." " First of all-- - ...what will bring us safety or not." "Let me just finish." "God told us, though, if you will go against God" " God manipulates the world" " Okay, I" "Wait a second." "Let me finish this." "God said if you're going to try to make the state, you will be unsuccessful." "You are looking through-- you're trying to look at this world through a keyhole." "I'm looking through the key" "Let me finish." "God is compassionate." "Everything is directly from God, we believe." " But it seems to me" " I'll now explain what you're asking." "The concept of saying that we've suffered enough anti-Semitism" "Never again." "So you don't say "Never again." You say "Again."" "Yeah." "Let us understand that the Jewish people were living in exile for 2,000 years under God's protection and we were living in Western civilization" " Germany, Poland." "Not anymore..." " Let me finish." "We were living amongst all nations throughout the years." "...'cause they're all dead." "How many people died in the Holocaust?" "You're jumping." "Let's jump to the Holocaust." "I thought the issue was Jewish safety." "I thought the issue was how many Jews are dying." "So let's talk about Jewish safety." "Okay, I'm sure there was a few" "A couple million Jews died, that's okay, that's the wording you use?" "You're the one who went to Iran in December 2006 for the president of that country's Holocaust "denial" conference." "Whoa, don't just throw words." "Why does Ahmadinejad say that he wants Israel" " to be wiped from the face of the" " When did he say that?" " He did." " He never said that." "What did he say?" "What was the exact quote?" " He said it should disappear." " What, is he David Copperfield?" " That's chutzpah." " Never again, Rabbi, never again." "Wait." "One more second." "No, I'm out." "We have Conservatives." "We have Reforms." "We have the Orthodox." "You are an observing Jew." "It says it right there in the fourth commandment:" "Honor the Sabbath day to keep it holy." "Friday night to Saturday night, you don't do anything." "Yeah, the rabbis over the centuries have created these prohibitions as a way to try to protect the day of rest." "You can't use electricity." "You can't drive." "Let's talk a little about keeping the Sabbath holy." "I've always wondered if it came about because God rested on the Sabbath and that's why man has to." "That's right, and that was the creation of the seventh day, that there should be rest." "There are 39 types of specific actions that cannot be done on the Sabbath." "One of them is lighting a fire." "Planting." "Another one is plowing." "Another one is tying a knot, untying a knot." "One is building, and one is destroying so as to build." "So much more kosher is to develop these gadgets" " that figure out a way around it." " That's right." "It does seem that you are, to a degree, trying to outsmart God." "If the lawmaker never makes a mistake, and still there's a loophole there, why is that loophole there?" "To be used in a situation of need." "But how did this get updated for a 4,000-year-old rule?" "It seems there's an awful lot that has to do with electricity." "Rabbi Halperin's work here is translating it into something more modern." "Let's look at some of the gadgets you have." "I'm particularly interested in the phone." "Is there not a cell phone?" "It's not a cell phone." "Okay, wow." "I have to say, that looks modern." "Each number is trying to dial itself all the time." "Hello." "Hello." "When I take the stick" " and I put it into the hole..." " Hello." "...I'm inhibiting that which is inhibiting the number from dialing itself." "Let me ask about this." "It's obviously a wheelchair." " May I?" " Sure." "Oh, wow." "And this is not the new model, I'm guessing." " This is the experimental prototype." " I see." "Schmuck!" " This runs on air pressure, right?" " Correct." "Basically, we've got 150 atmospheres of pressure here." "We've got the turning it on, turning it off here." "So air is okay." " Air good." "Fire bad." " Fire bad." "Fire bad!" "We've taken an old bicycle" " I forgot what it's called." " Tire." "Okay." "Air goes in, air goes out." "If I was a person in that wheelchair," "I might say to myself, "Why am I going to these lengths to please God, who's taken away my legs to begin with?"" "Okay." "That would be fascinating." "It's an elevator." "Oh, it's a Shabbatavator." "Let me guess, you can't push a button..." " Correct." " ...on the Sabbath." "The issues behind the scenes that people don't see are the real problems." "An even bigger problem might be how do you get someone to put this in their building if they're not completely nuts?" "Well, actually, that really doesn't make a difference." "Hmm." "How we define what is crazy or not crazy about religions is ultimately up to how we define crazy." "If you define mental illness as anyone who hears a voice talking to them, then anyone who has heard the voice of God is crazy." "She talks about a prophecy that these children needed to die." "The dispatcher asked "Why did you do this?"" ""I was told to." "Who told you?" "God."" "There is nothing" "He may not ask of thee?" "But in layman's terms, Jesus was nuts." "Moses-- "Stay here, I'm going up and getting the 10 Commandments right from God."" "You know, 'cause one thing I've also" "We didn't have brain-scan technology back then, so it's a hard to tell." "I know, but if a guy says he went up on a mountain and he talked to God, and He talked to him through a burning bush, that guy's a cuckoo." "All those pastors who refer to me as the anti-Christ, false prophet, it's because they're miserable." "Anyone who doesn't believe in me is miserable." " My mike is on?" " Yes, sir." "Okay, who are you Biblically?" "I am Jesus Christ man, the second coming of Christ, I am." "The Old Testament speaks about me clearly and the New Testament also." " About you personally?" " Yes." "Not just because you have-- you share the name Jesus?" " No, not because of that." " You also share the name Miranda." "Maybe you're Carmen Miranda." "Maybe the second coming of her?" "You should have fruit on your head, instead of fruit in your head." "Okay." "Fuck you." "How's that?" "Why do you think God chose you?" "Jesus of Nazareth had a wife so after they killed him, his seed kept going, maybe through France, Spain, and then from Spain, came to Puerto Rico." "The bloodline come from Abraham, Abraham to David," "David to Jesus of Nazareth," "Jesus of Nazareth, me." "Okay, I though a second coming was the reincarnation of the Christ himself, not a descendant of." "No, he's a descendant." "Descendant?" "Oh... but you don't believe in hell?" " No." " Or the Devil?" " No." " Or even sin, right?" "No, there's not a sin any longer." "What you teach is that Jesus died for our sins and so there's not really any sinning anymore." " No more sin." " This is like a diet doctor saying," " "Eat anything you want."" " Right." ""You don't lose weight, but it's easy to stick to."" "That's what I believe, Bill." "Oh, I know you do." "And I have many people who believe in this." "And yet, you have a little-- you have a little twinkle in your eye when say it." "No, I believe in that." "I believe." "How do we know?" "Because lots of people would like this job." "How do you get this job as the second coming?" "It's not on Craigslist." " Yeah." " I'm guessing." "Maybe it is." "See, two angels" "Two guys named Angel, Spanish guys." "You know what I'm talking about, you fucking cockroach!" " No." " Oh, actual angels." " Two angels came to me..." " Okay." "...and they told me" ""The Lord of Lords and King of Kings is coming to anoint you for the ministry tonight."" "What form did the angels come in?" "How tall?" "Little tall and strong." "Whatever they told me, I obey." "I don't wanna mess with them." "But I'm just saying, it seems that if God wanted to communicate something to the world" "He's all powerful" "He would just talk to the whole world." "It always seems He picks out a prophet in private and tells them, "Okay, you're the prophet."" " I am." " "You go tell the rest of the world."" "So we just sort of have to take it on faith." "We just sort of have to believe you." "Right, yeah, it's true." "Abraham." "Noah." "Lord, what shall I do?" "Moses, climb the mount alone." "Once again, the Lord had spoken to Joseph Smith as he had to Adam, Abraham," "Moses, Paul and others." "I am the first Christian." "And the rest are really kind of Jewish, you're saying, because they're following a Jew." "That's it." "In fact, they put on the plates-- they say "My boss is a Jewish carpenter."" "How ridiculous is that?" "A Jewish carpenter!" " Imagine." " Come on, Jews hire carpenters." "They don't-- you know, people say "I found my calling in life."" "And it's a good calling." "It's a nice living." "People adore you." "Everywhere you go, they treat you like Christ, like you're the Messiah." "You know, if I discovered that I was Satan in person," "I would do a good job, too, because I would be faithful to my calling." "It's how you do your work, isn't it?" "You know, at the end of the day, whether you're the Messiah or you're Satan, it's loving what you do and giving it 100%." "I give 100%." "I wasn't born skeptical." "I was still making deals with "God" when I was 40." "I remember I quit smoking." "There was some shitty problem I had in my life, and I made a deal with God," ""Okay, if you make this problem go away," "I will quit smoking, and I won't go back on it 'cause I'd know I'd be going back on a deal with God."" "And you know, I gotta say," "I'm kind of glad I had "God"" "in my life." "You are the head of the First Universal Church of Cantheism..." " Yes." " ...which is really built around" " this substance here." " No." "No?" "Okay, I got that wrong." "But it's built around smoking this." "I mean, it has no dogma, right?" "You're not preaching to anybody." "You're not saying" " you'll save their souls, no rituals." " No." "How does this differ from just getting wasted?" "I mean that in the best possible way, but" "I understand the concept of God, a feeling of one with everything else." "Do you feel that every time you smoke pot?" "No." "Phew!" "I thought it was just me." "So why do you think it's this family of drugs that's so good for opening our minds as opposed to ludes, PCP, or smashing up your mother's diet pills and smoking 'em in a pipe?" "I don't know." "I don't know." "So I did want to get your thoughts about what's going on in this city." "This is your city." "There's a lot of controversy with-- maybe the Dutch are so tolerant that they're now tolerating intolerance." "There's a lot of tension with the Muslim community." "It's all religious fundamentalists." "They already killed Theo Van Gogh, who was a known television maker." "This is the spot where Theo Van Gogh" " was assassinated?" " This is exactly the spot." "He was a Dutch filmmaker." "He made a 10-minute film." "It was deeply offensive to Muslims." "Oh, Allah, you say that men are the protectors and maintainers of women because you have given the one more strength than the other." "I feel at least once a week, the strength of my husband's fist on my face." "Lots of people think that free speech goes right up to this point and then when you're talking about religion, when you're talking about the Prophet, all bets are off." "It goes both ways, freedom of speech." "It goes both ways, but the people who actually-- usually do the killing for it wind up on the Muslim side." "Do you think that says something about the different cultures?" "I don't want to have the image of the Muslims, you know, if they don't like something you say, they kill you, because it's not." "It was a noisy crowd outside the Danish embassy in London as speakers condemned the cartoons portraying the Prophet Mohammed." "I wish I could get your music in America, but considering how controversial it's been here in England..." "Initially, when I did the record, a lot of people supported it, but then, in the current times that we're in, people got really scared." "It just shows the stupidity of society, which refuses to discuss, debate things in an intelligent way." "And I don't except that." "I just put my middle finger up." "One of your big gripes-- and it's a valid one-- you keep saying that-- in fact, let me read your quote." "You said, "Anyone worried about what I'm saying should get involved in the debate." "You are allowed to dissent." " That is a right."" " Yeah." "But is that a right in Islam, to dissent?" "Of course it is." "Why do you think there's so many schools of thought?" " Why do you think there's" " It wasn't a right for Salman Rushdie." "The demonstrators set off from Hyde Park, bringing much of central London to a standstill." "Their hatred focused on Salman Rushdie and his book." "The mullahs pressed home their message in thousands of mosques" "Salman Rushdie must be killed." "See, Salman Rushdie was there to provoke, insult, and he did it intentionally, right?" "But should you die for that?" "No no, well, I mean, like, that was-- you know, it's easy for you to say things are kind of in black and white." "They're more complex than that." "There's emotions and passions and philosophy involved" " and all that stuff." " You know, all you gotta say is it's wrong for someone to have to suffer a death threat" " for writing a book." " Well, hang on." "But apparently, it's more complicated than that." "Well, it is because-- but I mean, Western" "We'll never see eye to eye there, but you want that protection for yourself." "No, I think these debates are a lot" "I'm willing to discuss 'em in terms of facts and not fictions." "When you disagree with me, it's a fiction." " No no." " You have the truth" " and I have the fiction." " No, I don't have the truth." "But you don't see that there's a fundamental hypocrisy of you asking for the right to dissent and somebody else getting a death threat?" "No no, 'cause my dissent is to stop the madness." "I'm here with Geert Wilders here in The Hague, which of course is home to the World Court, but also to the Dutch Parliament." "You are taking a kind of hard line here in the Netherlands." "Islam is, according to me, a violent religion." "The Koran is a violent book and Mohammed was a violent prophet." "Do you think Islam wants to take over the world?" " They don't even make..." " Right right." "...a secret about it." "We are infidels." "I mean, we should either become Islamic or we should be killed." "This is what they say." "This is what they are proud of." "Okay, we're here at Habibi Ana." " Did I say that right?" " Yeah." "You guys, really-- I mean, gay Muslim activists, that is a very rare job description." "You guys have balls." "How big is the gay community-- the gay Muslim community here in Amsterdam?" "Or is this it?" "I mean, I'm guessing, Thursday isn't-- isn't gay night here." "I hope you guys find each other attractive, 'cause otherwise-- you don't feel afraid?" "Here in Holland I'm not, but when I came from my country, I was very afraid." "There was an article of law:" "Punish the gay for one year just because he's gay." " Just being gay can get you a year." " Just being gay." "Same as Alabama." "What I learned is that they're not really-- they're not specific against homosexuality." "They're not specific against, in other words, the desire of a man for a man." "What they are against is specific behavior, like anal sex." "They don't say homosexuality, heterosexuality." "They just don't want you doing it in the naughty place, which I guess, if you put that out of the picture in homosexuality, what do you have left?" "Just the blowjob." "What do you think when people say it affects your memory, especially your short-term memory?" " It does." " And what do you think when people say that it affects your memory, your short-term memory?" "It does." " I like my hat." " It's good." "You look good, too." "I think I do." "I think I might adopt this look." "Yes." "Is there a reason why you have a black hat and I have a white hat?" "We have any color you like." "So I bought this." "I like it myself because I like the color." "There is a lot of tension in the last five years or so." "Is Islam a threat to Dutch values?" "Islam is preaching, above all, peace." "Peace, peace and peace." "The name Islam means peace." "And yet it is involved in a lot of war and violence." "Yeah, it's just all politics." " Nothing to do with religion?" " No no." " No?" " No, sir." " It's political." " It's politics." "Seems to be a lot of passages that say the infidel is not the equal of the believer." "The infidel will die in hell." "Don't feel bad about hating the infidel." " No." " No?" "Boy, I've got bad information." "Yes, you have." "I think so." " No no no no no." " No no no no." " No no no no." " No." "No?" "No." "I'm wrong about everything." "The way I perceive things in the Koran is not about killing infidels." " But you have read it in there?" " Of course I've read the Koran." "You've read those passages, and what did you think when you read them?" "No, but I explain those passages within the time in which they emerged in the world." "That's not how people read holy books." "People don't read holy books and go," ""Well, that was good for then." People who read holy books and go," ""This is the word of God." "It's forever!"" " No, I don't agree." " That's how most people do it." "I just don't buy it that these guys are in this state of denial." "I think they're just in a state of denial to an outsider." "They will not admit anything is wrong with their culture to an outsider." "Muslims were imperialists in the century after Mohammed's death." "They conquered most of the known world in one century." "Yeah, it is possible." "You call it conquer." "I think they were trying to spread Islam." "Well, they were, but they weren't doing it by singing "Kumbaya."" "Excuse me." "Sorry." "Oh, that 21st century's always busting in." "I'm going to shut it off." "I love it that he's got "Kashmir" as his ringtone." "Okay, I shut it off." " Sorry, I was" " Yeah..." "Politics, okay." "Do you think it's possible that when we're on something like marijuana or mushrooms and believe we're having a very spiritual experience, that we're just high?" " It's-- it's" " Oh, look out your head's on fire!" "Boy, talk about the light bulb going off," " that was your whole head." " I don't like candles behind me." "No." "Oh, look, I found another joint." "Uh-oh." "Can we get closer?" "That is one hell of a wall." "This is the Dome of the Rock?" "This is the Dome of the Rock." "According to Islam..." "On a horse?" "He went to heaven on the horse?" "Why is it holy for the Jews?" "A rock." "The Kaaba?" "Isn't that" "Stone, rock, the same thing." "Why is that holy?" "Paradise." "Could the rock itself have been what we know now to be like a meteor?" "But does it make a difference that we now understand what a meteor is?" "Yes, right." "Okay." "This is the Mount of Olives." "A lot of Orthodox Jews want to be buried here, 'cause they believe that when the Messiah comes, he will raise them from the dead and march them through that golden gate and onto the Temple Mount, which is why the Muslims have walled up the gate." "The better to keep out the Jewish Messiah and his kosher zombies from getting in." "Although you'd think that if you had the power to raise the dead, you'd have the power to jump a fence." "I thought I would not be allowed to walk in a mosque." "I thought only someone of your faith was allowed to do that." "Why is he angry?" "They're angry that you're talking to me?" "Women in your culture seem not to be as equal to the man as they are in our culture." "Yes." "I talked to a Muslim scholar today." "And he said that Mohammed had a meeting here." "Mohammed never set his foot on that Temple Mount, not even one foot." "Never ever." "He was never in the land of Israel, that's a historical fact." "I think even I understand that." "Why can't the people of the different faiths get along?" "All three religions consider the same site to be holy." "Is it not because it was conquered many times?" " Yes." " It was conquered first by King David, and then later by the armies coming out of the Arabian Desert." " It changed hands during the crusades." " We had the Romans." "We had the Byzantines." "We had the Persians." "There's more than one mosque in the world that used to be a church, and before that was a temple." "Because it's a lot easier just to change the sign on the top and say "under new management"" "than it is to change the whole building." "I worked a lot of comedy clubs in the '80s that still had the disco ball on the ceiling." "And in the '90s, they became strip clubs and now they're a Starbucks." "I've come today to the village of Cerne Abbas in Southern England to show you something completely different." "It's in the shape of a giant naked man with a sizable erection-- well, sizable for England." "Some people think that this means that there is a giant actually buried under that hill." "Others think it has something to do with crop circles or ancient space visitors or Druids, but nobody really knows." "And that's what I find fascinating about this, is that it doesn't really mean anything." "The locals have been maintaining it for centuries, and they don't really know why." "They just do it because they've always done it, and isn't that religion for you?" "Sometimes you kneel, sometimes you fast and sometimes you go up on the hill and you cut the grass around the giant space penis." "Do you believe, as so many Christians do nowadays, that the world will end?" "I think we are in the end times." "There are many many signs." "The world as we know it will come to an end." "And beyond that, there will be the glorious second coming of Jesus Christ." "It seems peaceful, but this is the very spot where a lot of Christians believe life on earth will end." "The irony of religion is that because of its power to divert man to destructive courses, the world actually could come to an end." "A lot of people in this country believe in end times." "There will be this great reckoning, the Rapture." " Do you believe that?" " I do." "But if you believe that the world is gonna come to an end, and perhaps any day now, does it not drain one's motivation to improve life on earth while we're here?" "The plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live." "The hour is getting very late to be able to indulge in having key decisions made by religious people, by irrationalists, by those who would steer the ship of state not by a compass, but by the equivalent" "of reading the entrails of a chicken." "George Bush prayed a lot about Iraq, but he didn't learn a lot about it." "I don't know that much about politics," "I'll vote for President Bush because of his faith." "Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking." "It's nothing to brag about." "And those who preach faith and enable and elevate it are our intellectual slaveholders, keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense that has spawned and justified so much lunacy and destruction." "Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do." "Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says," ""I'm willing, Lord." "I'll do whatever You want me to do."" "Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions," " limitations and agendas." " It's going to happen, and I'm not saying necessarily nuclear" "The Lord didn't say nuclear-- but I do believe it'll be something like that." "And anyone who tells you they know-- they just know what happens when you die," "I promise you, you don't." "How can I be so sure?" "Because I don't know, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not." "The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt." "Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting shit dead wrong." "Jesus is coming back to rescue the Jews, because he is the only one that can." "The believer goes in the paradise." "Unbeliever, they will go to hell." "The Jews are the only reason that I am a Christian." " I love them." " But you're not gonna take them" " to heaven with you, are you?" " I'm gonna go in the Rapture, and I'm gonna come back on a white horse." "So you think Jesus will end this earth at some point, maybe in your lifetime?" "One always hopes." "This is a sign, and that is a sign." "If a nuclear bomb went off, and it seemed like that was exactly what it had said, balls of fire or something, you wouldn't look on that as necessarily a bad thing." "I know I'll be with God." "This is why rational people, anti-religionists, must end their timidity and come out of the closet and assert themselves." "And those who consider themselves only moderately religious really need to look in the mirror and realize that the solace and comfort that religion brings you actually comes at a terrible price." "It says in the last days there'll be wars, rumors of wars." "The Bible prophesies from the Book of Revelation-- they're going to be fulfilled!" "Can this be accomplished without violence?" " No." " Islam ruling the world, global jihad." " Who will win out?" " We'll win." "That's for God to decide on Judgment Day." "If you belonged to a political party or a social club that was tied to as much bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, violence and sheer ignorance as religion is, you'd resign in protest." "To do otherwise is to be an enabler, a Mafia wife, with the true devils of extremism that draw their legitimacy from the billions of their fellow travelers." "If the world does come to an end here or wherever, or if it limps into the future, decimated by the effects of a religion-inspired nuclear terrorism, let's remember what the real problem was:" "That we learned how to precipitate mass death before we got past the neurological disorder of wishing for it." "That's it." "Grow up or die." "We are in a conflict between good and evil." "See you in heaven." "Who knows?" "1960 01:40:48,912 -- 01:40:50,880 Yeah, exactly."