"CENTRAL EXAMINING MAGISTRATES' COURT Nº 2 (MADRID)" "Good morning." "Good morning." "Good morning." "Excuse me, isn't there a table for the defence." "No, I'm sorry." "Bring a few chairs and sit next to the client." "Are you serious?" "That's how it is, there's building work going on here." "Good morning, Javier." "Good morning, Miguel." "What surprise have you got for us?" "At this stage," "I don't think anything could surprise you." "Why hasn't he accepted the adjournment?" "He might want to go on holiday again." "Again?" "ADAPTATION OF RUZ-BÁRCENAS BY JORDI CASANOVAS" "Good morning." "Good morning." "I can't fucking believe we're doing it in here." "You're romantic, Enrique." "Did you expect candles and dim lights?" "For things to be done properly." "Why did you appeal for an adjournment?" "To do things properly." "Good morning." "Good morning." "Good morning." "Good morning, Your Worship." "Good morning." "Good morning." "Hello, Luis." "Hello, have you got everything?" "Yes, I think so." "Here, Rosalía gave me this for you." "Thank you." "Let's begin." "Don Luis Bárcenas, good morning." "You were driven here from Soto del Real prison this morning." "Are you fit to testify?" "Perfectly, thank you." "You are assisted by a new legal defence," "I must ask if you agree with this designation although I have documental evidence." "I agree." "Firstly, I must remind you that you declared before the anti-corruption public prosecutor." "You offered a series of statements which I must briefly remind you of so you may say if you maintain such statements to this day or you wish to make any objection." "Fine." "Firstly, you stated as "completely false", placed in inverted commas, the existence of a parallel accounting system and the payment of bonuses during your years as manager and treasurer of the Partido Popular." "Do you maintain that claim." "No I don't." "That statement wasn't true." "You also claimed that donations to the party were always deposited within the limits of financial legislation." "I don't maintain that statement." "You claimed, in relation to the existence of bonuses, it was always done with deductions on the part of the party and declared by the recipients in their Inland Revenue tax returns, under the concept of representation expenses." "I do not maintain that statement" "At the hearing, you were shown documents which had been photocopied and published by El País." "You denied the handwriting was yours, said it was a botched job, a shopkeeper's book from a grocery store dating from early last century, you denied Álvaro Lapuerta's signature and said they were manipulated documents that weren't yours." "No, I do not maintain that." "You stated that the donations received by the party did not imply compensations and you had heard Mr. Álvaro Lapuerta, with a benefactor, saying that he was accepting a donation with nothing in return." "I will have to qualify that later, but I maintain that." "Right, I will show" "Does this microphone work?" "Yes, it works perfectly, just talk into it." "I will show you once more, the 14 pages which were photocopied and published in El País." "Shall I get up?" "Take them." "As of that page, the following 14 pages." "Can you read them?" "Yes, they're mine and my handwriting." "The "OKs" are mine and Álvaro Lapuerta's." "Are the notes on those papers yours?" "All of them." "In fact, Mr. Lapuerta's no longer appear after June 2008 when I was appointed treasurer." "I'll also show you supporting documents which were delivered to this court last week by Don Pedro José Ramírez, managing director of El Mundo." "Is this original yours?" "Yes, I did that." "It seems to be ripped out of a book, how was it used?" "No, it wasn't a book, they were sheets." "These sheets were in the accounts department and when that format was used up they gave us a different one." "There was never a book." "You can hand them back." "The rest of the sheets containing these notes, do you still have them?" "Yes, the rest are here." "No, the blue one." "For submitting?" "Yes, there are three accounting years missing, there were doubts over their existence, whether they had been lost or stolen." "Those three years are on the computers in Génova, they weren't given back to me when I left." "They are also on this pen drive which contains information on my accounts in Switzerland and personal affairs, and party affairs, official ones such as budgets." "Fine." "I repeat, that information is on my computers in Génova." "The evidence is received." "My lawyer will have to give you the code to open the files." "The documents which are on this pen drive, has anyone else taken part in producing them?" "The documents have been produced solely by me." "Who has had the pen drive?" "It has been in my house." "Do you hold any other documents with accounting information?" "Yes, we'll provide further documentation." "Supporting documents with receipts and a few other things." "You have admitted being the author of these documents, but I wish to ask... why these documents are kept and for what purpose." "What are they for?" "Initially, these documents began when Rosendo Naseiro was treasurer." "In fact, the first entry on the document is "R.N", the initials of the person making the first payment to me, ten million pesetas if I recall," "Rosendo Naseiro, treasurer at that time." "How long were you with Mr. Naseiro as treasurer writing out these entries?" "With the Naseiro case he had to leave the treasurer's post... fourteen months, I believe." "When Mr. Lapuerta comes in as treasurer, does he know about this system?" "Of course." "Who informs him, you or another party member?" "I imagine he'd talk to the president and the general secretary, those listed who received money, but I told him about it, logically." "Who knew about this practice during the whole time these entries were being made?" "From 1990 until 2008, is that right?" "In my opinion, all those who received payments, logically, the treasurer, the different ones over time and myself." "And towards the end, with the Gürtel case in February 2009, the manager who substituted me, Cristobal Páez, knew about it because there was certain concern over a possible inspection;" "so, much of the documentation was handed over to the manager and he had it for two or three months, until I got it back again." "Were you abreast of the party's official accounts?" "I was, because those keeping the official accounts depended on me." "Were they aware of the parallel accounting system?" "No, absolutely no one." "Not even the cashiers?" "Payments were made by the treasurer." "There are entries up until 2008.." "Are you aware of any subsequent entries?" "Irrespective of what has been said, I was treasurer until March 2010, with some limitations but I did the job." "In March 2010 we received 50,000, from Pontevedra to be precise, and obviously, I didn't keep the money, I handed it in." "Who to?" "Don Mariano Rajoy, 25,000 and Doña María Dolores de Cospedal, 25,000." "Can you remember when and how that money was handed over?" "Around March 2010," "I gave 25,000 to the president in his office and 25,000 to María Dolores Cospedal in her office next to mine." "Was it in cash or another form?" "In cash, in 500 notes." "In an envelope?" "A brown envelope with their name on." "Was anyone else present?" "No, just me." "Is this the last time you participated?" "Yes, it is." "I summon you to submit documentation relative to the payments." "There's basically all the proof of that along with this receipt signed by the regional manager in Toledo for the payment of 200,000." "Will you submit the rest?" "Yes, Your Worship, everything." "They are a bit disorganised, there is relative order... amidst the disorder." "Your Worship, these are loose notes which were given to us yesterday." "Enough to last until 2015." "One step at a time." "For fuck's sake." "You didn't expect this." "Silence please, all who are present." "The recording might fail." "We are all adult enough to respect this request." "You say you have documentation which explains several notes which appear here." "Yes, there are supporting documents relative to some payments, here, for example, are Calixto Ayesa's receipts, who testified yesterday, signed by Jaime Ignacio del Burgo..." "The amounts paid to a councilman, to the family of Mr. Carpena, assassinated by ETA in Malaga what remained of their mortgage and a vehicle they were paying for, such payments were taken care of by the party using these funds." "There are payments for a one-off digital freedom issue." "Do I submit this?" "And a batch of receipts here which show that certain amounts were paid by instalments." "Then, let's see... all this relative to Bilbao, is the purchase of..." "Financed by a businessman from the party headquarters in Bilbao, in Calle Gran Vía, to be exact." "These accounting documents refer to cash payments, don't they?" "That's right." "To conclude this evidence submission phase, any other document?" "Yes." "This..." "Here, for example, this is a cash payment to Don Severo Moto to help his Guinean opposition election campaign." "This is a cheque to the bearer from Gines Navarro Constructions for 10 million pesetas which I imagine was paid in cash." "There are lots of transfers by the Partido Popular regional in Galicia," "I recall they were for 10 million, the majority are contributions listed as Piñeiro, the regional manager of the party in Galicia and Mariano Rajoy's right hand there." "In fact, I think he was even his chief of staff at one point." "Then, there's a cash payment of 1,600,000 to Don Laureano López Rodó, result of a study he was asked to undertake." "Did I say...?" "No." "It's..." "Sorry, it's 1,600,000 pesetas." "The name that figures here isn't Mr. López Rodó but Antonio Cámara, who I gave the money to, to give to Mr. López Rodó." "These are expenses from an election campaign." "This..." "I don't know what this is." "Then this one says, "I have received from Luis Bárcenas... to give to Isabel Tenaille..." Signed by Miguel Ángel Rodríguez to give to Isabel Tenaille 175,000 pesetas for presenting a Partido Popular act in an election campaign" "and she was paid in cash." "When you speak of all these payments, I must ask:" "Did the Partido Popular make deductions at source for those expenses or were they payments... let's say... from slush funds?" "Money was paid in cash in an envelope, normally no receipt was signed and no deductions made." "I wanted to ask that, since you have submitted receipts." "What tactic was usual?" "Signing a receipt, or not?" "Well... payment of funds to party members with political office, they weren't asked to sign." "It was normal to sign receipts, yet party officials weren't required to." "Correct." "Logically, this documentation will be subject to examination and analysis and determination of its incorporation into the case." "We will focus now on the money entering the party and what involvement you and Mr. Lapuerta had." "Well, the donations had three routes:" "first the benefactor was received by the president or the general secretary, who, in turn, received the treasurer and gave him the amount received saying, I believe, who the money had come from." "The treasurer came down, told me what the amount corresponded to," "I put it away in the safe and made the entry." "Beforehand, controlled directly by him, on business cards, he noted the date, the concept and the amount received, whether they were deposits or payments." "That justifies the presence of OKs on the papers." "Periodically, Álvaro Lapuerta asked me to check to see if the balance coincided with the balance in the safe deposit." "So, he checked his accounts, so to speak, against mine, so to speak, and if we both had the same balance to date, we both endorsed the document so that the next time we checked" "we'd both start from the balance we'd agreed on." "But initially, Mr. Lapuerta denied that the signatures which appear as OKs are his, do you know why?" "I denied it too." "I don't know why." "You don't know." "Fine, you said that was one of the routes, prior presentation by the president or the general secretary, what other routes were there?" "You referred to one or two more." "The other way is that a party elected official recommends to the treasurer a person from their province or region wishing to collaborate with the party, the treasurer received the recommended person and the donation was collected." "Were they given a receipt?" "These benefactors, except in some cases, didn't usually want a receipt as such at any time." "If the money was received from companies contracted by Public Administrations, receipts couldn't be given." "A photocopy of the bank deposit was sometimes given, when the money was paid into the bank and not put into the safe." "But that seldom happened?" "Only occasionally." "Were amounts of money received over legal limits, successively, as you know, 60,000 or 10 million pesetas up until 2007 or 100,000 as of 2007?" "Yes, of course." "Regularly or occasionally?" "Regularly." "They were sometimes paid in installments to avoid exceeding limits." "The existence of donations over the legal limits of political party financing laws, who knew about them within the party?" "Apart from yourself and Mr. Lapuerta." "At least the president and the general secretary." "In the successive stages?" "Yes, every time a donation was received by Álvaro Lapuerta directly, he went to the president or the general secretary and said, "so-and-so has just given us this amount."" "Mr." "Lapuerta did that?" "Mr." "Lapuerta did that." "Did you go with him on any occasion?" "No." "Were you told about this--?" "I know about this because it was common practice, we met the benefactor, Mr. Lapuerta asked to see the general secretary or the president, and he went to give it to them." "You have also mentioned it but... to make it clear, you have received donations... from people with connections with companies with current contracts with the Public Administration." "All the companies named, basically 95% of the donations received came from companies tendering with Public Administrations." "This, according to your explanation, was known to the president or the general secretary at all stages?" "Evidently." "Do you know who is accused in this separate file?" "Yes, of course." "The accused:" "Álvaro Lapuerta" "No, no." "Don't list them." "Do you recall having met up with any of them and if any of them have taken part in donations?" "Of course, all those listed have been with Álvaro Lapuerta and me." "Sometimes in Álvaro Lapuerta's office, we even had lunch together sometimes." "Logically, in the information submitted to the Court of Audit none of these accounting statements appeared, did they?" "No." "I'll be a bit more..." "I'll focus on the concepts of entries listed in the 14 pages we had, all right?" "Fine." "I would like you to identify the entries and state to whom they correspond." "The word "Piñeiro" with the entry of a total of 671,570." "The regional manager of the Partido Poular in Galicia." "Manuel Contreras and Guillermo Contreras." "Two businessmen from Seville." "From the AZVI group?" "Yes." "J." "L. Sánchez." "José Luis Sánchez." "From the SANDO group?" "That's right." "Has he given money?" "Yes." "Alfonso or A. García Pozuelo from Constructora Hispánica?" "Yes." "Have you been with him?" "Yes, with all of those quoted, and besides, Álvaro Lapuerta and I have had lunch." "J." "Manuel Fernández Rubio." "As well." "He had connections with a company called Aldesa." "Ramón Aigue or Aigé Sánchez." "Ramón Aigé was the CEO of a business group in Lérida called Sorigué, I think." "Mr. Juan Cotino, tied in with the Sedesa police investigation." "Yes, I don't know if it's Sedesa or not but he helped in the election campaign in 2004, I think, with a considerable sum of 300,000, I believe, which he gave to the treasurer, Álvaro Lapuerta." "There is also an entry relative to Mercadona" "Yes, the Mercadona entry..." "I recall that Mr. Roig visits the president or the general secretary, he holds a conversation about wanting to help the campaign, he calls the treasurer, Álvaro Lapuerta saying the group's financial director will visit us the following week." "And indeed, he comes the following week." "You enter it as Mercadona?" "Correct." "A single provision in this case?" "Yes." "A total of 240,000?" "Yes." "There are entries identified as Mr. Luis de Rivero or Luis Rivero, linked to the construction company OHL." "No, Sacyr Vallehermoso." "Sacyr Vallehermoso, sorry, yes." "Have you been with him?" "Yes, often." "Once for the adjudication, which I then found out took place in Toledo." "Did he also hand over amounts of money?" "He did." "There are also entries relative to Mr. Villar Mir." "From the company OHL." "Were you with him too?" "Yes." "On several occasions too." "He's been Álvaro Lapuerta's friend for many years, we've had lunch at his house in Puerta de Hierro." "Mr. José Mayor, in connection with FCC." "Yes, he has also handed money over." "There's Mr. Pablo Crespo too." "Pablo Crespo gave money but he gave it to Álvaro Lapuerta in Galicia." "From Rubau S.A. in relation to Mr. Antonio Vilella?" "From Rubau, yes." "Antonio Vilela." "Vilela, sorry." "Always for handing over money?" "No, he had a good relationship, the Ministry of Development's advisor during Francisco Álvarez's time, we knew him through Maria Dolores de Cospedal's husband," "Ignacio López del Hierro, who worked for Mr. Vilela, the CEO of the ONCE construction company." "You also have an entry relative to Mr. López del Hierro, has money been received from him or on his behalf?" "No, I think it was Mr. López del Hierro directly..." "Could you tell me what year that is?" "There's an "ONCE" in 1998." "That's it." "That's when he had connections with the ONCE construction company." "Ignacio Ugarteche, relative to the group Urazca, have you met and received money from him?" "He has met up with us and given us money." "Pardon me for saying "we"" "With you and Mr. Lapuerta always, right?" "Yes." "There are also other entries which I must ask you about, if you can identify them for us." "Pepe C. Gol in November 1990." "It says: "Cheque" and "Pepe C"." "No." "Over a long time." "If you know anything about them." "I don't know." "Others refer to "Paco"." "Pepe C. Pepe Cuiña, Galicia." "Gal." "Another person that says "Paco" also in 1990." "I don't know." "Another: "General Des"." "I don't know." "Another: "Lucio" in April 1999, 4 million pesetas." "General Des is General des Eaux." "What's that?" "A French company dedicated to water treatment." "And "Lucio", 4 million pesetas?" "I don't know what that is." "Another that says:" ""Friend group councillor"." "I can't remember that." "If I wrote "friend group councillor"..." "Another: "Paco Yáñez"." "Yes, Paco Yáñez." "Is it a large amount?" "I'll tell you." "If it's around 100,000, if that's the amount, it's money received." "I'll have to expand on this." "Yes, go ahead." "At some point," "Álvaro Lapuerta and I went to Ángel Acebes' office." "He asked us..." "He wanted to help with a capital increase in one of Alberto Recarte's companies, relative to the media, Libertad Digital to be specific, and if we could put into contact with Mr. Recarte people who collaborated with us." "Álvaro Lapuerta called several people, some contributed, others didn't, but the capital increase was about to be closed with some shares awaiting subscription." "Álvaro Lapuerta thought that certain party members, with the party's funds that we had in cash, could temporarily subscribe for the relevant shares until we found someone to hold them permanently." "One of the people that offered, well they didn't offer, we asked them if they could do it," "I asked him personally out of friendship, was Francisco Yáñez." "One was Francisco Yáñez, the other Alberto Dorrego, and I don't recall any others." "I think Álvaro himself took out cash and subscribed for shares in his name." "In relation to the documents submitted, extracted from the pen drive which complete the accounts published by El País, do they follow the same trend with respect to collection?" "Exactly." "The only difference is that you kept the books by computer, then you returned to the manual system." "I don't know if I also..." "It was my first tiny laptop and I was eager to practise," "I had a draft which I transferred to the computer." "To conclude this identification, in 1994, April 1994, it says "received F.A.C. 10 million pesetas"." "Francisco Álvarez Cascos." "And this in particular, Mr. Cascos gave it to you and Mr. Lapuerta?" "What year?" "1994." "April 1994." "Yes, if it doesn't say anything else, he didn't say who gave him the money." "Also in May and September 1997, the same reference?" "Yes." "They visited Mr. Álvarez Cascos who then sent them to the treasurer." "I simply noted them down so the treasurer would know where the money came from." "Another one says: "Moreno" with "A de la P" in brackets." ""A de la P" is Álvaro de la Puerta and the guy off the tele, Moreno." "It's one million pesetas, in 1999." "He made several contributions of one million pesetas over the year." "Another says "Lucio Moreno"." "Lucio Moreno worked for a group in connection with La Caixa..." "Something to do with MOTs." "When it just says "Moreno" is it him?" "No, that's José Luis Moreno, the ventriloquist." "Sorry." "There is a payment entry which says:" ""Suits M. R." Can you explain that?" "Excuse me, Your Worship, could you state the dates?" "I'll try." "On 18 April 2008, "Suits M. R. 10,020"" "Excuse me, Don Pablo, we need to talk." "Wait a moment, please." ""Suits M. R."" "Those are Mariano Rajoy's representation expenses." "Why they were paid for from this account, if they were defined as representation expenses?" "Weren't there already expenditure items in the official accounts?" "It probably wouldn't have looked good presenting the Court of Audit with a bill from the tailor for some suits, that's all." "The fisrt tailor was my tailor, there's another tailor later on." "That's a second batch of suits which were made, in fact, by a different tailor, and Juan Costa orders them, I believe, from his tailor." "We thought that if they were pressuring, those who were in charge of image, that clothing had to be changed because the suits had to be like this, the colour of the tie wasn't..." "What I'm saying is true." "It wasn't as it should be, it would be" "It would be costly for him if he had to pay for them, but we paid for them unofficially rather than officially." "Correct, yes." "Excuse me, I must stop a moment." "Fine by me." "I must ask the accused and the lawyers to remain here." "and the rest to leave a moment and return later." "Do you need anything, Pablo?" "What's happened?" "The hearing commissioner came in." "May I drink some water?" "What's happened?" "I don't know." "I don't like this." "An interruption like this." "Do you think it will be suspended?" "I think anything could happen." "But don't worry, Luis it's going fine." "It'll cost him a fortune." "Write up a report, commissioner." "The recording is resumed and Mr. Bárcenas Gutierrez's testimony." "However, I will inform those present about the circumstances which have been communicated by security officials in the Police Dept." "at the National High Court, that there is news that through a social network information is being published on what is going on in here, on the content apparently..." "It is evident that it could only come from someone who was listening to what is being said here and therefore" "from someone here." "There is a summons which I have never had to issue, which would seem childish and I will strive to avoid, which would be to personally request all mobile devices to be handed over." "But I must ask you to write by hand any notes you wish to take during the testimony, handwritten." "Logically, the only person allowed to use technical equipment is Mr. Durán, as at present, and who is exempt from this precautionary measure." "I assure you this device isn't connected to any network." "I can imagine, Mr. Durán." "With that said, I continue with the questioning." "Having carried out the analysis of the benefactors, the donations from businessmen with Public Administration contracts, can you tell us if you or Mr. Lapuerta dealt with any of those contracts in any way or future contracts or adjudications?" "We weren't abiding by political party financing laws because the amount received usually exceeded the amount allowed, and benefactors couldn't donate because it was forbidden by law." "But having said that, the donations have never been finalist, they had no balancing entry." "Except one, recently, in Castille-La Mancha in 2007." "Leave that." "Tell me about the first one." "Álvaro Lapuerta made it clear that the amount received did not entail any compensation of any kind." "But, if anyone needed help with red tape or needed to see someone, obviously, for those helping the party, we could help them in that way." "In that sense, I have often witnessed" "Álvaro Lapuerta calling the person in Public Administration and saying," ""I'd like you to receive this person who helps us." "I've no interest in the matter, I just want to make a good impression, invite him for coffee, keep him on good terms, that's all."" "Do you remember any of those deals, who he contacted?" "Were they Ministries or other Public Administrations?" "No, I can't remember but it was a common thing and the times he arranged matters that someone had asked him to do, he always used the same phrases" "Did you deal with these matters?" "No, never." "You never called any political leader or official?" "Never." "The party statutes clearly state the functions of the general secretary and the manager and the functions of each are clearly defined." "My duties didn't include managing the search for donations, but the administration of the party's resources alone." "And when any benefactor gave you money, was any deal put forward with any construction plan put out to tender or adjudication, that they openly posed to you?" "Never." "The relationship with them has always been delicate." "Álvaro Lapuerta is a gentleman, he would never have tolerated any..." "He was imposing enough in that sense for anyone to dare to make such a proposal." "Right, you say there is an exception to all this, referring to a payment of 200,000." "I ask you to be as thorough as possible." "Yes, I believe it has been published" "Yes but in spite of the press, which we will disregard," "I would ask you to describe it now." "Yes, but I'll refer to that conversation which is why I mentioned the press." "It's a conversation held in March 2010, on a Friday afternoon in Mariano Rajoy's office in Génova 13, my wife is present, Javier Arenas, the party president, Mariano Rajoy, and myself." "We talked about everything, I was leaving the party permanently," "I would continue to be paid, I'd still have the car and a chauffeur, the secretary, a 3rd-floor office, on the same floor as Javier Arenas so we're close, he says." "During that conversation, what I essentially transmit, is my outrage over the media harassment I suffer by María Dolores Cospedal, who permanently filters against me, and in the heat of the moment I say, "Mariano," "or you stop Maria Dolores," not "that woman" which was published," ""stop Maria Dolores or you'll lose your general secretary and candidate."" "That's true." "Because Álvaro Lapuerta and I haven't done a dirty, Álvaro's term, a dirty with the donations." "The only irregular operation was that of María Dolores in Castilla-La Mancha." "Onto the operation in Castilla-La Mancha." "At some point in 2007, I don't recall via whom, but María Dolores Cospedal, who I didn't know, contacts me." "She was a senator and she wanted to propose a matter in relation to donations." "I tell her we can meet whenever, and at a meeting we had in the senate, one afternoon, I think," "I'd have to have my diaries back to check the date..." "What she wants is for Álvaro Lapuerta and myself to get Luis del Rivero to receive her in Sacyr Vallehermoso." "I tell her I have to consult with the treasurer, Álvaro, but I don't think it will be difficult, we have a relationship with him, we've had lunch together, there's a good relationship." "I tell Álvaro and he says he doesn't want to do it." "I call Luis de Rivero saying I'd like to introduce him to someone." "He says yes and gives me a date." "I call María Dolores de Cospedal and she says Vicente Tirado will attend the meeting, the current president of the parliament in Castilla-La Mancha." "We get to the meeting, Mr. Tirado is there, Mr. Rivero," "Manolo Manrique, former CEO and current president of Sacyr, and me." "What Mr. Tirado asks for is that they are amid an election campaign," "María Dolores Cospedal has a lot of expenses due to the campaign and they would like to count on a generous contribution to help with the campaign." "They ask about the amount and if I recall, it was about, it could be done with 700,000, between 600,000-700,000 approximately." "At that point, I got up and said I didn't want anything to do with it," "I'd introduced them, they had the bilateral relationship" "I'd simply introduced them." "It was a matter for Castilla-La Mancha and I didn't want to know." "After that, probably the date on the receipt," "Mr. Tirado reaches an agreement, with Manrique or Rivero, but the person he reaches an agreement with calls me," ""I wish to locate Vicente Tirado, to give him the money, but I can't locate him." "Do me a favour, the money is here." "Send someone to pick it up or if you can, come and pick it up" I can't remember if I went..." "I think I went personally and he gave me the amount in question, on account of the amount agreed." "Either that day or two days later" "How much?" "Pardon?" "How much was it?" "It's on the receipt, I can't remember." "Here it says: "Received, 100,000 from Luis Bárcenas 12 February 2007."" "Correct." ""And 28 March 2007, 100,000."" ""Madrid 28 March 2007, signed:" "José A. Cañas Cañada."" "The regional manager in Castilla-La Mancha." "I put the envelope straight in the safe." "I informed the regional manager" "I told him to come over without any explanations, he had to pick something up for María Dolores de Cospedal or Vicente Tirado." "He drove to Madrid, signed the receipt," "I kept the receipt, he took the envelope of money." "You say you went to collect the money yourself?" "Or you think you did." "I said I can't remember." "I said I collected at least one of the amounts." "I complained, I said, "I don't want to get involved." "It's your deal, you sort it out."" "The occasion you remember, was it at Sacyr?" "Next to the Corte Inglés." "Manolo Manrique gave it to you." "Yes, I think it was him." "Underneath here, it says:" ""Luis del R." "M. Manrique." Are these entries yours?" "Yes, absolutely certain." "However, the other entries, figures or letters are written by José A. Cañas Cañada?" "That isn't my writing," "I imagine I dictated:" ""Received from Luis Bárcenas..." and he wrote what I said." "I guess." "Do you know if the amounts were greater?" "You talked of 600,000-700,000." "I am not aware." "And was there any compensation, to your knowledge, regarding any tender to the beneft of the donor company?" "During the meeting asking for help with the campaign," "Vicente Tirado referred to..." "Sacyr had won or was going to win a tender for some work in Toledo." "You witnessed that in the meeting?" "Yes." "Could you be more specific?" "No details were mentioned." "Didn't they say, "Winning the tender requires compensation on your part"?" "Or in similar terms?" "No, it was much more subtle in the sense of "help with the campaign, we're helping you with this."" "That was more the tone." "Do you have any other document in relation to this operation, apart from this one?" "I had the ID card of the person who signed but..." "You haven't got it or you can't find it." "I can't right now." "You said that this operation was linked to an election period." "I wish to ask, did the economic contributions rise substantially close to or coming up to election times?" "Connections with election seasons, well, probably." "It was more active around election times." "During election campaigns, spending..." "Although it was financed differently, as established in the election law, the parties spend, spend, spend and it was necessary to supplement the donations at times." "Were finalist contributions made in this sense?" "Finalist contributions, never." "As Álvaro Lapuerta said, this is a single account, the benefactor will want whatever, but it enters the party's account and we decide what we do with it." "What else was the money used for?" "Campaign payments, allowances in cash in envelopes, paid directly to certain party members, which wasn't declared." "And other payments, not exactly bonuses, more like compensations, like the ones to Federico Trillo, which I think were to pay for defence in the Yakolev affair." "With respect to such complements which were not taxed, from slush funds, who were these bonuses paid to within the party?" "What positions?" "President, general secretary and secretaries." "Who decided that?" "I believe it was the general secretary at some point." "And this has been maintained with all general secretaries?" "This has always been maintained." "Were these payments periodic?" "Usually every month." "The treasurer asked me to prepare an envelope for so-and-so with the amounts I already knew and all I did was put the money inside, write down the name on the envelope in each case, and give them to the treasurer, who gave them out." "This happened whilst in government and whilst not." "The treasurer, Mr. Lapuerta, always took charge of delivery?" "You never went with him on any occasion?" "Personally, I think on one occasion, for a particular reason, I gave money to Frederico Trillo because the reason for giving him the money... let's say Álvaro Lapuerta didn't think it was..." "What's the word?" "Reasonable, it didn't seem reasonable." "Why not?" "Because president of the parliament, the third authority in the country, was a very important post and from there to defense secretary was an equally important post, and he didn't think it was necessary to compensate for the loss of emoluments" "because the two posts were serving Spain and very important." "You didn't take part in the rest?" "Well, yes." "As of 2008." "When I was appointed treasurer." "The payments I made to President Rajoy and Cospedal, I made those directly, personally." "I have here the report from 2008." "In January there is a:" ""Semester one, Mariano, 12,600"." "Did you take part in that payment?" "No." "Was it since you were named treasurer?" "Correct." "When was that?" "In..." "The first payment I gave out must have been in July." "I was appointed treasurer in June 2008." "There is a payment saying:" ""De Cospedal, third term 2,500x3=7,500"." "Correct." "Did you participate?" "I gave it to her personally." "How was it handed over?" "In an envelope or...?" "The usual manner was in an envelope with her name and the cash." "There is one on 15 July, referring to "M. Raj" or "Roj"" "second semester 400x6=2,400"." "Did you participate in that too?" "Yes." "Then there is one in July, "gift to Álvaro Lap 1,490"." "A lunch we organised for Álvaro Lapuerta in Balzac." "With those funds, a gift was bought and given to him during the lunch," "María Dolores de Cospedal was there with Pío Garcia Escudero," "Soraya Sáez de Santamaría, Javier Arenas, Ana Mato and I." "Then there are two from 10th and 12th, which stand out from the previous, for a greater amount, 235,000 and 200,000 and it says: "G. U."." "Those are the settlements of the company that did renovation work at Génova 13." "G. U. is Gonzalo Urquijo, the architect." "All the entries referring to G. U. or Urquijo or Gonzalo Urquijo refer to the same concept?" "The renovation work at Génova, yes." "I understand there was an official payment, which was documented with deductions and this was additional to that payment, and wasn't invoiced." "Yes, it must be about 30% of the total." "Why does the format change?" "You used one format up until 2006, and then in 2008..." "The cashier ran out of those sheets, they were ancient, they had a stock and when they were used up they made..." "I think that one is probably done by computer," "I listed the concepts to my secretary and she wrote up those sheets." "Doesn't it mean you wrote them at a later date or recently?" "Not at all." "It wouldn't make sense." "Besides, the amounts are the same as those received previously." "There is a certain logical sequence to the amounts received." "As of 2008, which is where these accounting statements end, you say you took part in the payment of 25,000 to Mariano Rajoy and Maria Dolores de Cospedal." "You said that was in 2010, didn't you?" "Yes, I think in 2009, as seen on the last page, there was a balance of around 40,000." "I think..." "I didn't have the folder for several months, and except for those entries in 2008, when all this flares up," "I recall doing two envelopes with 20,000 in each and I gave them to these two people and I still had about 4,000 left." "That payment to those two people, when was it?" "The summer of 2009?" "Round about summer 2009, yes." "And the remaining balance?" "The remaining balance was in 2010." "I spoke to Javier Arenas and said, "Look," I was quitting the senate," ""Look, there are 4,900 left, what do I do with it?"" "And he said, "Take it to the president in an envelope, he'll know what to do."" "So I did." "I took it to the president with a copy of the list, which he destroyed in the shredder, and I left the envelope in his office." "Was there anyone else with you both in that meeting?" "No." "So what you described before, 25,000 to one and 25,000 to the other" "No, those 25,000 are as well as." "As well as?" "Yes." "When was that?" "To situate it." "In 2009?" "2010." "March 2010." "March 2010." "We're talking about when in spite of continuing in the party I" "Correct, that is clear." "Pedro José Ramírez testified in this case last Thursday and claimed to have held a conversation with you, according to him you told him..." "If I'm right, towards 2011, there was a donation from a businessman, or an attempted donation, amounting finally to around 300,000, with great interest in the president knowing about it." "Is this true?" "can you tell us what you know about it?" "It's true." "It is true, I do not doubt Álvaro Lapuerta's words and Álvaro Lapuerta told me about it, he's a very good friend of mine, who I haven't seen since December, we had lunch in Lavinia..." "Álvaro Lapuerta for certain reasons expressed complaint about the president and that he had received, for the 2011 campaign, a contribution of 300,000 from his friend Villar Mir, and he took it personally to Mariano Rajoy." "Mariano Rajoy took note but didn't pay much attention because he said, "No, go and give it José Manuel Romay."" "Álvaro Lapuerta was very upset because no one phoned to thank Mr. Mir, and he thought that besides being impolite, someone might assume that the money hadn't been handed in." "I think that unless there are any" "I insist, that is what Álvaro Lapuerta told me." "It's clear." "One last question." "Doesn't the air conditioning work?" "You stated that your responsibility regarding the settlement of this slush fund ends in March 2010, doesn't it?" "That's right." "Do you know why this system of a slush fund is ceased, this parallel accounting?" "Why is it ceased?" "Yes, is it because you were no longer" "Excuse me," "I don't know if it has ceased." "Very well." "I call on the prosecutor." "With permission, Your Worship." "We shall refer now... to the parallel accounting." "Is there any correlation between these documents, what they refelect, and the Partido Popular's real accounts?" "None." "When we see here, at certain times, balances which are deposited in the account at Banco de Vitoria, there is a clear correlation between the balance and the deposit" "Yes, but you didn't specify..." "Evidently, there is a correlation." "When the cash balance reached an amount we didn't need, it was pointless having, so it was taken and deposited in the Banco de Vitoria." "Do other similar documents exist in the regional headquarters?" "I think..." "I know that in each regional or provincial headquarters similar accounts are kept using whatever system and the mechanics of the application and the use of the donations is similar." "I wish to ask about the origin of this accounting." "Within the party, was there a marketing strategy or benefactor recruitment?" "Yes, we had a system which was organised in 1983-84, if I remember rightly, with which, based on taxpayers' information relative to the income tax of people with certain levels of income, direct marketing was used, where we contacted them by letter" "asking one and a half million people for support." "Has that system continued to be used?" "No, we stopped doing that sometime during the nineties." "People die and the records became less productive." "There is also documentation relative to three companies." "Can you remember when they were established?" "That was something that ocurred to Rosendo Naseiro, treasurer in 1989." "What was their purpose?" "They had very little activity." "Yes, but how were those results transferred to...?" "I mean, when a company has a life of its own, it has to have its own accounting and payments, from its cash balance or accounts." "How did you--?" "No, I understand." "The documentation was given to Miguel Blesa to solve, as tax inspector." "Evidently, they held no consistency with anything real." "But we couldn't pay by cheque, to avoid connections with the party, so the taxes due were paid in cash." "Your Worship has analysed in detail the concepts of income and expenses, but there are some which still remain unclear." "In particular, several from early 1990 in April amounts of 255,000, another 255,000, 500,000 to the name "J. M."" "Regarding those entries, I have no..." "It could be Jaime Mayor, it could be..." "In 1990, April 1990..." "It could also be José María Aznar, but I can't swear to that." "In other cases I've been sure but I can't affirm that "J. M." corresponds to..." "It only appears here and nowhere else, doesn't it?" "Yes, only these items." "Then there are" "It wouldn't be logical if it were him." "Can you identify someone or not?" "I daren't identify without any doubt." "Okay, no more questions, Your Worship." "Thank you." "Thanks to you." "Right, will you answer the accusations?" "Yes, if it doesn't take long, I will answer a few questions today." "I will allow them to make use of their freedom to question and if you see fit to answer then do so and if not, don't." "Since the examination is taking time, if you need to rest at any time..." "No, thank you." "I don't need to rest." "My Esteemed colleagues, you may step forward, you have access to the documentation about which he has been questioned." "Remember to apologise." "Ah, yes." "Thank you." "José Mariano Benítez de Lugo, from ADADE." "Good morning." "Good morning." "Well, I would like to apologise because I said a few words to you the day you left for Soto del Real and I wish to apologise personally." "That said, you may proceed." "Right, thank you very much." "Mr. Bárcenas, we have seen, in certain detail, the payments you made to certain relevant members of your party." "Who decided the amount?" "The general secretary did." "Was the frequency decided by the general secretary?" "The frequency was general, it was always monthly." "I have identified five people who received monthly payments:" "M. R. Was that Mariano Rajoy?" "Yes." ""P.A.C." PAC." "Paco Álvarez Cascos." "Are." "Javier Arenas." ""R"?" "Rato." "Rodrigo Rato." "And the last one: "J. M."" "Jaime Mayor." "Jaime Mayor?" "Didn't you refer to him as "Jaime M."?" "What date is that "J. M."?" "I think the prosecutor already asked that question, it's 1990." "I'm talking about 1997, 4 March 1997." "No, Jaime Mayor." "When José María Aznar was president of the government, there were people on that list who received extra pay as ministers," "I'm not aware that José María Aznar did." "I can't say that he has been paid." "And certainly in 1997 I can't." "Yes, and before that?" "There are entries here, not only one as the prosecutor indicated, in 1990 there are one, two, three, four, five, six entries with "Payment to J. M. 255,000 pesetas"." "The amount isn't significant." "I agree on year but I don't think it's José María Aznar," "I didn't pay him that." "You didn't." "I wrote "J. M." and I wrote "J M."" "You will be aware that some notes are crossed out or rubbed out." "What explanation is there for that?" "Probably the correction of some matter which didn't materialise, it might be an amount for an envelope which doesn't get delivered, it is returned and crossed out." "You didn't aim to hide--?" "Not at all." "Nothing?" "Nothing, an innocent erasure." "You are aware that to launder money in the Partido Popular they sometimes increased figuratively" "You must rephrase the question, I cannot admit it in those terms." "Laundering is a term which alludes to a reference in the Criminal Code, to my knowledge, there is no accusation against the PP for laundering." "In your party, do you know if the fees paid by certain militants were increased, as if donated, when they hadn't been donated, to therefore reflect greater figures in the official accounts?" "If I knew that fees from militants who perhaps paid 1,000 pesetas, instead of writing 1,000 pesetas, we wrote 101,000 to deposit 101,000 pesetas as that person's fees?" "And the 100,000 pesetas difference was cash from your slush funds." "I don't know." "But I'll explain why I don't know." "The whole issue of fees management was dealt with by regional headquarters." "But you know the basic facts." "No." "But you stated" "He said no." "Do not reiterate, please." "Do have any more questions?" "No, Your Worship." "I have no more questions." "Right, any further accusation?" "Trying not to repeat questions already asked," "The accusation lawyer may now question, stating what charge you represent." "Gonzalo Boye, for Observatori Desc." "Good morning or afternoon." "Good morning." "Within the expense of those deposits which were made for election campaigns with that same concept, when they were made abroad, in particular in Argentina, were there donations for example made directly in that country?" "Question or statement?" "A question?" "No, I don't think there were donations in those countries because our election campaign budgets included an item for help to those areas where emigrants' votes could be significant." "They were paid from campaign funds." "Is it possible that Spanish companies, through subsidiaries abroad, make donations to the Partido Popular?" "I don't know." "Since your arrest," "is it true that you used--?" "Wait, wait, arrest no." "I wasn't arrested." "Well, taken to prison." "Is it true that you used 606 73--?" "I must state... at this point..." "Well, reiterate your freedom to reply, or not, to these questions which could affect your privacy." "You are free to answer the question." "They were submitted this morning, requesting calls traffic." "It's a word of caution since I do not have that document, you are free" "I've no idea." "I can't answer anyway, because believe it or not," "I don't know any of the phone numbers I've used, nor the own I've got now, well, not now." "Since going to prison, has anyone offered you three specific things:" "one, maintain 25% of your assets;" "another, in the next cabinet meeting for Gallardón, the Minister for Justice, to be dismissed;" "and the prosecutors in the Gürtel case to be removed from office?" "No, that isn't true." "No one..." "No one has offered me to maintain 25% of my assets," "I hope to maintain 100% of my assets." "Regarding Mr. Gallardón, yes, it was put to me in those terms," "Mr. Gallardón would leave the ministry at the end of this month, and what I received once more was that these proceedings were full of causes for annulment, and before the end of the year, they would end via annulments." "Once more I was warned to be careful with my wife, because she could end up in prison." "I've had two such communications whilst I was..." "Well, I had two in prison." "And those two included offering you guarantees or taking them from your children's safety?" "No one has mentioned my children." "No one has mentioned your children." "One question:" "you said that the official accounts of the Partido Popular exist alongside the parallel accounts for donations to the Partido Popular, correct?" "Are there any more parallel accounts?" "No, none." "Nothing else?" "No." "No more questions, Your Worship." "I state once again, this is taking longer than I would have intended," "Mr." "Bárcenas." "Sorry." "I repeat that this is taking a long time but I cannot curtail the prosecutors' rights to ask what they feel appropriate providing you are prepared to answer." "Yes, I'll answer them all." "But I ask to end as soon as possible and return to prison." "We shall continue then, if you wish to stop me at any time, please do so." "Good morning." "Enrique Santiago, on behalf of the accusation:" "Asociación Libre de Abogados, Izquierda Unida," "Ecologistas en acción, Asociación Justicia y Sociedad and I think that is all of them." "With permission." "You confirm that you were confirmed, forgive the repetition, as manager by the Partido Popular's successive general secretaries, each time they varied." "I haven't talked about that." "That's why I'm asking." "No, by the treasurer." "Payments in the Partido Popular's official accounts to Foro de Análisis Hispanos, were they payments by the Partido Popular to the defence lawyers in the Gürtel case?" "Correct." "Who authorised those payments?" "Who approved them?" "You, I guess." "Someone recommended them" "The president and the general secretary," "They did, I don't authorise those payments myself." "They still paid when I wasn't there, until 28 December last year." "In the Partido Popular's official accounting there are five accounts which receive donations:" "accounting accounts, not bank accounts." "From donations?" "Yes, obviously, donations." "What headings?" "Named donations, anonymous donations, donations for security, anonymous donations for security and electoral donations." "Yes, anonymous donations are anonymous, named donations are named, for security are for security, named or anonymous, and for campaigns are for campaigns." "Was there an account, specifically 78002, not in the books?" "I don't know." "But there isn't such an account." "Those in the chart of accounts and the balance sheets are the accounts." "There is a surprising gap in the accounts, there is a 78000, a 78001 and then it goes to 78003." "I didn't keep those accounts." "Look, for example, in 2002, there is an entry in the account 78003:" ""Income for anonymous security: 5,166"." "In the previous year: 371,000 and suddenly in 2003: zero." "Someone apparently decided..." "What year?" "In 2002, there are 51,660 and in 2003, all of a sudden, zero." "It would seem someone" "Someone, no." "The law changed and at some point, apart from the regular operating grant, an item was established to attend the security expenses in the Basque Country." "As of then, we ceased to make deposits and the account was closed." "In 2007, in the account 78001, anonymous donations were registered for 609,559." "Why is it zero in 2008?" "For a very logical reason." "Anonymous donations had disappeared, they were prohibited by law." "The electoral law changed in Julio 2007 and we couldn't receive anonymous donations." "So where did you deposit the money that people continued to offer?" "In the safe?" "Yes." "It wasn't split and put into the bank, all of it was put into the safe." "Of course, anonymous donations were prohibited." "Why didn't you tell the benefactors, so as to remain anonymous, to pay the money directly into the bank?" "No, that possibility was already explained, but the benefactor wanted their face to be seen." "The anonymous benefactor wanted to be seen?" "Yes." "So, none of these anonymous donations were anonymous." "No." "So, they wanted the party's high ranks to know, that they had made a donation." "All those who help a congregation or charity want people to know that they are contributing." "And you stated previously that contracts weren't awarded in exchange of donations." "If anything, Mr. Lapuerta requested certain red tapes to be seen to..." "No, I haven't mentioned red tapes." "What I said was, the most that Mr. Lapuerta has done and with the utmost delicacy, is request for the person making the donation to be received with no interests or commitments whatsoever." "Which means that business owners who made donations requested a meeting with some senior government official." "Yes." "Yes." "They could request one at some point." "That's part of..." "It's routine, they call and ask if they can see someone you know, but it was nothing unusual." "So then, was it the business owner who asked to speak to that person, or Mr. Lapuerta's suggestion?" "The business owner asked," ""Might it be possible to see the state secretary, or the mayor of wherever?"" "Can you highlight cases where business owners asked to see... specific people or ministries?" "I don't have that reference, I didn't call to arrange such matters." "I understand." "Did you keep part of the cash received in a place other than in Calle Génova?" "Elsewhere?" "For yourself?" "No, nothing at all." "Did you regularly inform the party of the current cash balance in the safe deposit?" "No, because that wasn't my responsibility, it was the treasurer's, Álvaro Lapuerta." "But I don't think he did either, he didn't go with a note saying," ""This is the balance, are we doing okay?"" "But he said whether there was cash or not." "No, he didn't..." "There was always a cash balance..." "Álvaro Lapuerta is such an honourable trustworthy person that there was no need to justify anything because there was blind trust in him." "You have stated that the donations were usually received in Calle Génova and at times you had lunch with the benefactors." "Yes." "To receive the donations?" "On occasions, the business owner handed over the donation during lunch." "Can you say which ones?" "I can't remember that." "You can't remember." "It doesn't matter where the donations" "Limit yourself to whether you remember or not, importance will be assessed later." "Let's see..." "Did you spend part of the cash donations for the Partido Popular on other legal bodies?" "No." "Did you divert the amounts to the party's foreign accounts?" "There aren't any accounts" "De facto, not necessarily de jure." "Neither de facto nor de jure." "Relative to the SMS published yesterday 14th in El Mundo, do you recognise them as genuine?" "That information has not been provided to the case, so I shall omit the question unless you have knowledge of that journalistic information that I'm unaware of." "I don't read the papers lately." "So, can you reformulate the question?" "Have you delivered or sent..." "SMS to El Mundo--?" "No." "Wait until he finishes." "...which you had exchanged with Mariano Rajoy?" "Impossible." "I was where I was." "Before, obviously." "No." "Not before either." "Has anyone you know sent those SMS?" "I don't know, I was where I was and still am." "When you ended your working relationship with the Partido Popular, at the start of this year, in January this year if I recall," "what agreements did you reach other than economic?" "Any agreement on the Gürtel case investigation?" "What makes you think I've made an agreement, there's no agreement with the Partido Popular." "In fact, I filed a lawsuit against the Partido Popular to be heard in July next year." "I haven't reached any agreement at all." "So, you haven't reached any agreement with the Partido Popular regarding the Gürtel case investigation or this separate file?" "No agreement." "I understand." "In that meeting in Mariano Rajoy's office, in which Mr. Arenas was present and also your wife, what kind of... help... did you ask Mr. Rajoy for?" "I didn't ask for any help." "I just asked for Mrs. De Cospedal to stop indoctrinating against me." "What help could Mr. Rajoy offer me when he wasn't even president then?" "Affection and little more." "Why did the Partido Popular pay for your legal defence?" "That's help." "That isn't related to the dates you mentioned." "When I left the party for good, I reached an agreement with the president in the presence of Javier Arenas in his office." "I would leave the office, move to an office on the 3rd floor and keep the same secretary as before, keep the car and chauffeur and continue to receive my salary sine die." "Since you went into prison on 23 June, has the Partido Popular proposed any agreement on what to say and what not to say in this legal proceeding?" "Well, yes." "I said that I have received a message to that respect." "I received an abnormal visit on the basis of..." "In my short time there, I've seen how that prison system works." "Usually, when a lawyer wants to see you, a prison officer takes you to the booths where you meet the lawyers to talk but on this occasion, it wasn't a prison officer who came, it was the deputy prison manager" "who took me to a room, not a booth, where a lawyer was waiting for me." "I think they realised they were putting their foot in things because someone from the Home Office had called to arrange that meeting and they said later they needed the room and moved us to the booth." "Your Worship, I must remark that what Mr. Bárcenas might say, undoubtedly affects the lawyer's confidentiality..." "You may, as you know you have power over what he says, with your lawyer's advice, do what you see fit." "I have no wish to reveal the lawyer's name, it's insignificant." "What he does is transfer information." "What he transfers in the end is the mess I'm going to get into, he reminds me of what happened with Mario Conde, where he and Adolfo Suárez were, which never got anywhere, and he reminds me that my wife could end up in prison." "What did he ask for in return?" "Not to testify in exchange for something in particular?" "There was no need to ask for anything." "But..." "What did you interpret?" "I should be cautious about what I testified." "Was it implied that the message came from the Partido Popular?" "That's what I made out." "Fine." "I have no further questions." "Thank you." "Thank you." "Are the defence lawyers going to intervene?" "No, Your Worship." "AS the defence of Don Pablo Crespo, we renounce." "Thank you Don Miguel." "I call on the deponent's lawyers." "You can't do that." "I didn't give any names." "Thank you, Your Worship." "With permission." "Three or four final questions, Mr. Bárcenas." "I can't remember, we only met a few days ago, how many times have you appeared in this case?" "This is the 10th I think." "I will ask for an explanation of why you changed, not only in attitude but in your testimony." "When I began to receive calls, the ones mentioned and others documented with the SMS, asking me to make a statement denying the facts, I was reluctant." "So I notified the president saying that I hadn't provoked this, I hadn't spoken to El Mundo." "When Jorge Trías..." "it seemed inadmissible." "Excuse me, it was El País." "Yes, sorry." "El País." "When Trías gives the papers to El País, what does the party think?" "Who had those papers?" "Luis Bárcenas, so Luis Bárcenas handed them over." "Although there had been an article by Trías explaining his guilty conscience, how he had visited the state attorney general and handed them over to the lawyer of El País." "Indiscriminate attacks began with all kinds of insults towards me." "At some point, I spoke with my lawyer, Alfonso Trallero, and we spoke about it, I said, "Alfonso, this doesn't... you know the papers exist because I told you, they're genuine." "You knew about the Toledo matter, I haven't used anything at all," "I'm under tremendous stress right now, we need to do something."" "Alfonso Trallero said, "Luis, if you aim to go against the party, we'll quit your defence." "Your defence has to be what we decide."" "When he said they quit my defence due to discrepancies, obviously there were discrepancies," "I testified what I testified because it's what my lawyer told me." "But what is worse, prior to that in a conversation with a lawyer sent by the party, having published the papers in El País," "I was asked to repeat the originals, changing certain dates and concepts as though they'd been tampered with." "The papers in El País were one set but there were other similar ones." "I said I wouldn't do it without my lawyer knowing." "We had a meeting that afternoon, that lawyer, my lawyer and myself." "My lawyer advised against it saying under no circumstances, it was clearly an offence, and would complicate things even more." "Of all the versions you have given, is the one you've offered this morning true?" "What I have replied today to the questions from the magistrate, the public and private prosecutors, is the exact truth." "When asked what I don't know, I've said I don't know, but through ignorance, not to hide information." "Finally, have you threatened, directly or indirectly, any member of the Partido Popular or the secretary--?" "No, no one at all." "I've never threatened anyone in my life." "Except the few words to Mr. Benitez de Lugo, who I apologisd to, I've never threatened anyone." "I've felt threatened on four occasions," "I've had to listen to people sent on behalf of the party," ""Luis, or you do things correctly, or you withdraw the lawsuit against Plaza de Castilla..." "Don't worry, I'm negotiating with the owners their testimonies relative to the papers," "I'll get you 500,000 in cash to compensate for the loss of damages."" "Despite that, I've never threatened anyone." "Despite having to take on four occasions," ""Luis, I think you need to be careful, your wife's future is on the line, your wife could end up in prison."" "Would you like to say anything else?" "No, for my part..." "For my part, on your response to your lawyer's questions" "I request clarification, who is the person that makes that suggestion?" "A lawyer." "I think Mr. Gómez de Liano will argue the same as before, as to not revealing the person's name, but it is a lawyer with connections with the party and who had direct contact with María Dolores de Cospedal." "You can't or won't identify that person, following your lawyer's advice, right?" "If you have nothing more to testify..." "Right, we'll finalise the testimony and sign the minutes." "Here, Luis." "Thank you." "You must take your tie off." "THE DIALOGUE FOR THIS FILM HAS BEEN TAKEN LITERALLY" "FROM THE TESTIMONY OF LUIS BÁRCENAS BEFORE JUDGE RUZ" "The facts about which I would like to inform the House can be summarised in two words:" "I was wrong." "I am sorry, but it is so." "I was wrong to trust someone who we know, now, was not worthy of it." "Subtitles:" "Bbo Subtitulado"