"Do we have to wait for my mom to get back from the deli?" "Yeah." "We also too wait for your dad." "My dad might not make it on time, this is a really crazy week for him at his job." "Does he work a lot?" "I guess so." "What are we supposed to do until they both get here?" "We could play a game, if you want." "I've got a bunch of games back here if you want to... if you want to take a look." "There might be..." "There might be something here that..." "Do you like any of these?" "Do you have any cards?" "Cards..." "Okay." "Maybe..." "I should have..." "Somewhere in this mess." "Here we go." "So what kind of..." "What kind of game would you like to play?" "Hearts, war, crazy eights?" "Black jack." "I'll deal." "Whichever one of us gets to 21 without going over wins the hand." "If you stick on anything below 15, you fuck the deck." " Am I allowed to say that here?" " Sure, you can say anything you like." "Okay." "I think I'm going to stick." "But you can't stick on 15." "You kind of suck at this game, don't you?" "I do." "I don't understand the rules." "I hope that doesn't piss you off." "I'm not pissed off." "It's just..." "If you don't know the rules, why play?" "You're just wasting your time here." "I guess it's a good point." "You're right." "I have a question." "Why am I here?" "Nobody is explained it to you?" "My mom says we're coming here so I'll fell better." "My dad says we're coming here, because we have to." "I'll tell you what I know.{\You know that} Your mom and dad are in the process of getting a divorce." "No, they're not." "So..." "Nobody explains this to you?" "My parents aren't getting a divorce." "My dad is just not living in home right now." "That's..." "That's true." "But..." "You know that..." "They're separated." "But that doesn't mean that they're getting a divorce." "Can I..." "Can I ask you what... your mom and dad have told you?" "My dad moved out." "So..." "How do you feel about that?" "What's that like for you?" "It's a pain and it's annoying." "Do you miss your dad?" "I still get to see him." "It's just annoying." "Well, there must be a great deal about this situation that you find annoying." "You still haven't told me why I'm here." "You're here because your mom and dad are separated now and..." "They want to make sure that they both see you." "But I've been told that the last month or so that you've been refusing to stay at your dad's place." "So the reason we're all meeting here today is so that we can find an answer, a solution." "Did I explain that properly?" "Does it make sense?" "Okay, good." "Maybe you can explain something to me:" "why don't you want to stay at your dad's place?" " I don't like his apartment." " Okay." " What do you not like about it?" " It's on the Upper East Side." "And what's wrong with that?" "Have you been to the Upper East Side?" "Well, what..." "What specifically do you not like about the neighborhood?" "My real home is here in Brooklyn, and my house is pretty close to my school." "It takes me about five minutes to walk there, but at his place I have to get up an hour early to ride the 4 train." "So then what you're saying is that your dad's apartment is..." "It's inconvenient." "Yes, and plus he never has any food." "No food at all?" "Okay..." "Maybe protein shakes, mustard and advil, but when he works late he leaves money on the counter." "There's this fancy grocery store downstairs, but all they really have is jars of weird olives, so I get a candy bar or I call Empire Szechuan and get some spare ribs." "You do all this shopping by yourself?" "That's a big job." "It's the main reason I don't like staying there." "Any other reasons you don't like staying there?" "It's hard for me to go to sleep." "Can't sleep at night there." "No, not normally." "It's just when my dad's friends come over." "And what happens then?" "They hog the Wii and stay up really late." "Wait." "What does that mean?" "They..." " They what?" " The Wii." " The Wii." " It's a video game system." "My dad got it for me for my birthday." "He says..." "If I'm going to spend all my time playing video games," "I might as well be moving." "But when his friends come over, they play Guitar Hero over and over." "My mom says it's embarrassing..." "All these 30-year-old men playing with toys." "So your mom isn't happy with... what goes on at your dad's house?" "Did she say that to you?" "Yeah, she doesn't think it's a good..." "The type of environment I should be in  On school nights." "She wants me to eat a good dinner, finish all my homework, nd go to bed on time so I do good in school." "Don't you..." "Don't you want that too?" "I guess so." "It's my job." "So just to sum up so far:" "your dad's apartment is too far away, there's not enough food there and you find it very difficult to sleep at night-time when his friends are over." "Is there anything else?" "Isn't that enough?" "I just want to make sure that I haven't left anything out." "Why?" "You can't do anything about it." "Maybe together we can." "For instance, we can tell your dad it's hard to sleep when his friends come over on school nights." "And if we tell him that you don't have enough to eat, maybe he could go shopping for you." "If we..." "You and I..." "Talk to him together, it'll be easier, I think, for you to stay with him." "What do you think?" "I'm sorry to interrupt, I was just wondering if Oliver's father had finally shown up while I was out." "Not yet, bess, but" "Oliver and I were just having a little chat, so if you'd like to just wait in the waiting room till he gets here." "I'm a little worried though, because the session's half over and he hasn't arrived yet." "He works in new jersey and he lives on the godforsaken upper east side." "Sometimes I think he goes out of his way to be inaccessible is that my snack?" "Here you go, baby." "I have to make sure Oliver gets something healthy to eat." "He's supposed to stay with his father tonight and I have to be at the new school by 5:30..." "So..." "Sure, but actually we were in the middle of a conversation, so if you don't mind, you can wait in the waiting room until..." "Just..." "I guess I have to go now." "Why can't she stay with us?" "Sure." "I hope it's okay to bring a snack into your office." "It's just his father never has any food at the house, so..." "Actually, we were just talking about that." "Oliver tells me it's like a freshman dorm over there." "I've sent Luke like a million emails about it, but he never writes me back, so..." "We were just trying to figure out some ways that we could maybe address that issue." "Good." "That would be wonderful, because I do want" "Oliver to feel safe at his father's house, so..." "A lot of things are definitely gonna have to change around there." "So, Oliver, you and your mom have discussed this already?" "It's hard enough for him to be away from his own bedroom..." "You know, his desk, his books and..." "All his stuff, you know." "So you and Oliver are still in the same apartment that you all used to live in?" "As long as we can afford it." "Luke wants to sell, but I think there's been enough upheaval already." "I'm so sorry." "You must be paul." "It's been a real crazy week but I know that's no excuse." "Please sit down." "We were just getting started." "All right." "Is that for me?" "Yeah, it's swag." "We had a presentation with the vendors today." "Of course they kept me late, but at least you got something out of it{\, right?" "}." " Yeah." " This is what he does:" "he arrives late with apologies and gifts as if that's gonna make up for it." "Hey, believe me, I wanted to be here today, on time, because I wanted to get here before she had a chance to say too many things like that." "Everything's a joke with him, except it's never really a joke." "{\Hey, }Put that away." "This is important, all right?" "Now that we're all here, I think there's..." "There's a few things that we need to go over together." "Oliver, would you mind waiting in the other room for a few minutes." "While I talk to your mom and dad?" "Let me help you with that." "Yeah, go on." "Go ahead." "Before we do anything else, I'd like to... set some ground rules for ourselves and some goals." "That's why we're here." "We don't want our divorce to upset him." "It's already upsetting him, isn't it?" "He's confused, yeah, and when he's confused, he gets upset." "You know, one of the things that I learned from talking to Oliver is that" "he doesn't actually know that you two are getting a divorce." "Does that surprise you?" "{\Well, }It's really sad, but I have to say it's not shocking." "Really?" "Why do you say that?" "Because she won't ever be straight with {\the kid}him." "Whenever she talks to him about it, she makes it sound like we're just taking a time out." "I've been perfectly clear with him." "Luke is the one who never explains anything." "He told Oliver that he was moving out while they were watching the Mets on TV." "Bess." "While they were watching {\a Mets game}the Mets, during a commercial{\ break}." "He didn't give {\him }a chance to ask {\any }questions." "Come on." "Let's..." "Let's not..." "Well, obviously the divorce is confusing and emotional for both of you, but you can imagine how overwhelming it is for Oliver." "But does he understand now that we're getting a divorce?" " Did you explain that to him?" " No, I didn't, because I don't believe that it's my job to tell him things that you both find painful to say to him." "I think that one of the things we need to work on is the best way to... communicate with him yourselves." "You know, it..." "It's hard for me to try to be a father with him when he won't even come over to my apartment." "Okay, let's..." "let's talk about that for a moment." "Oliver told me that he doesn't feel that... he can eat properly at your place." "Well, it's true." "He's right." "There's never anything in his refrigerator." "No but there's money and menus for him to buy whatever he needs for dinner." "I'm trying to teach the kid to..." " fend for himself." " He's too young for that." "So..." "The way you see it, Luke, is that Oliver is..." "Well, you're helping him become more mature by... giving him responsibility, by choosing his own meals." "When I was his age, I was cooking dinner for my family every night." "Since Luke's family neglected him," "I guess we're supposed to neglect Oliver." "That..." "It's not neglect when you're trying to teach your kid..." "You're not teaching him anything." "You're handing him money and then leaving him all alone." "We can solve the problem of what's in the refrigerator, but I think..." "You know, I think there's something..." "There's something else going on here." "When Oliver says there's nothing to eat, I know this sounds a little strange, but it may be his way of saying that he's not feeling nurtured." "Well, that's not exactly Luke's strong suit." "Have you looked at the kid?" "He's getting way too much of that kind of nurturing already." "It isn't just about the food." "Maybe this is his way of saying that he misses you both and the home you shared together." "Isn't that why we're here, {\so he'll}to get over that?" "I think that one of the ways that we can help him is that although he lives in two different homes, it's important that he adhere to the same set of rules." "For example, you want to make sure that Oliver eats well, right?" "And you, Luke, you want to give him the responsibility of taking care of himself." "Maybe we can combine both those goals." "I just think that we're already asking him to grow up too fast." "Maybe there's a way to help him achieve a certain kind of... independence." "I'll be happy to help him if I ever get to see him." "When Oliver comes to me and tells me he can't fall asleep at his father's place," "{\I think }I have every right to be {\a little }concerned about that." "So you've been asking Oliver about what it's like at Luke's house?" " Grilling him is more like it." " Of course I have." "I met Luke in college and I know how he used to live before we got married." "You know, the real reason why the kid can't fall asleep at my place is because whenever he used to wake up in the middle of the night she'd let him climb into bed with us." " {\Oh, }For crying out loud." " He's still climbing into bed with her." " How inappropriate is that?" " One time." "One night when had just moved out, he was feeling lonely, so I let him sleep in our bed." "I'm just curious, Luke:" "how did you find out about this?" "I asked the kid how his mom is doing, he tells me she practically begged him to sleep in our bed." "It sounds like, to me, that you're both asking Oliver to inform on each other." "I think one of the things that we have to work on is taking him out of the crossfire." "The reason that Oliver can't fall asleep at Luke's is because Luke invites his friends over to stay up past midnight playing cards and getting drunk." "Nobody's getting drunk." "I haven't had a drink in two years and she knows that." "What I know is that you're up every night" " partying like you're back at the frat." " I'm hardly partying." "I'm paying for a wife and a kid, putting them both through school, and I'd bet he graduates before she does." "If my memory serves, we agreed that I would be a stay-at-home mom so that someone is available for Oliver." "It's lucky if he ever gets home by 9:00 at night." "{\You know, }If the two of you are interested in couple's therapy," " I can make a recommendation." " Thanks, but no thanks." "The only good thing about {\getting }a divorce is that we're done with all that." "Okay, since we're not here to discuss your relationship, it might be a good idea from here on to schedule separate meetings." "No, actually, I'd rather not." "I mean, I wanna make sure that we are all on the same page." "{\And }I wanna make sure I'm here to hear what she says about me." "Then can we agree that our job is to focus entirely on Oliver?" "Is everything okay?" "It was my fault." "I'm sorry." "It's fine." "I can deal with it later." "Oliver, why don't you come in and join us?" "I was wondering if there was anything that you wanted to say, now that we're all together." "Well, I know I'm supposed to stay at my dad's, but... it's hard when his friends come over on school nights." "Well, up until now I thought you liked hanging out with us." "I do like it, it's fun, but... it's hard for me to go to sleep and finish all my homework." "All right, I've got it." "So from now on, just... you and me on school nights." " Good?" " Yeah." "So, Oliver, is there anything else that you'd like to say to your dad?" "Can you go shopping for food so I have something to eat after school?" "Sweetie, how about this: how about we make up a list together, a shopping list you can give to your dad and then you {\two }can go shopping together?" " I guess so." " All right." "All right, so anything else you'd like to clear up?" "I don't know." "{ ow look, }Kiddo, it's important to both your mom and me that you feel okay about this, that way we can all start moving on with our lives." "We'll never force you to do anything you're not ready for, okay?" " I don't wanna stay at my dad's house." " Oliver, come..." "I wanna stay at my real house." "Oliver, even though your dad has agreed to make some changes, are you saying that you would still be uncomfortable" " staying at his apartment?" " I don't wanna talk about this anymore." "She rearranges both our lives just for this, then throws it all out the minute he pitches a fit." "Shit." "Oliver, are you..." "Are you coming or aren't you?" "You don't have to do anything you don't wanna do, okay?" "Oh, that's great." "That's really gonna help him grow up." "Thanks, Bess." "I wanna apologize for Luke." "But then I always wanna apologize for Luke." "I should probably stop doing that, right?" "Maybe we should apologize to Oliver too." "Sometimes, adults forget the rules." " I guess it all continues." " Yeah." " Let's go." " Okay, Oliver?" " Bye." " Goodbye." "No, no, no, no, I'll take care of it." " Thank you." " You're welcome." "Bye."